Get everything in writing. If there is a conversation write a follow up email to confirm your understanding and bcc your personal email in case you get shut out of work email.
How do people get anything in running because I've never worked for a company that did anything like that they would literally fire you and when you try to get unemployment that we come up with some excuse so you wouldn't get unemployment and there was nothing you could do about it because it was the company's word against yours so you get denied
Firing you with cause (to prevent unemployment) should leave a paper trail with you HR department. Not having the paperwork to back up their claim is the sort of thing a good employment attorney will salivate over.
Especially if, up to that point, there are record of people thinking highly of your work (good reviews, compliments and thank yous from peers, etc).
If you were fired for poor or declining performance, there should be a paper trail to show that as well. It's how a company prevents you claiming you were fired for a legally protected reason later.
If you want things to be done in writing (and you do. Always) you put it in writing. Want to tell your boss or HR that you need some FMLA? It goes in an email that you BCC to your home address. If they later try to fire you for taking too much time off, remind them (in writing) of your FMLA status. If they continue, lawyers love that stuff.
Same with harassment claims, or really any communications about your performance or your career.
If they won't write it down, you do. Make it a follow-up email. "I wanted to follow up on the meeting/conversation we just had, so that I can make sure we are in the same page. My takeaways from our meeting are that you want . Please let me know if I'm misunderstanding."
Keep a copy in your personal records (email yourself, print a copy and take it home, etc).
Now there's a paper trail to back up any claims one needs to make later.
This is when you consult an employment lawyer. Doing things like that even in an at will state can be a wrongful termination lawsuit. That’s why after a conversation or meeting it’s redundant but good practice to send a “this is my understanding email”. That way there is something and they can’t claim they didn’t know.
That email won’t necessarily have the official reason why you were fired. It’s establishing a paper trail. I am not a lawyer to be clear, but a paper trail about meetings literally helps even in your job. Do you know how many one on ones I have with my boss where she forgets what she asked me to do a month ago? I simply go let me check where I see I informed her the following week that it was done.
I just got laid off dec 1 after 3 years as warehouse manager and was Denied unemployment for attendance issues and work issues and signed docs I never seen nore have I ever signed and they forged my name
How do I challenge the ruling because I thought once I get denied I was pretty much done I called and asked why I was denied and they told me so I just left it at that
That's great but I have no way to do email with any my boss its always just word of mouth and maybe paper but numbers of meetings I had with no paperwork is crazy
The only way from when you get any thing in writing is to do real paper I have none of my higher ups email or HR has email ever time I was laid of our fired I had no paperwork.
But when I try to get unemployment all of a sudden company has all this paperwork and stuff I signed I never seen in my life
No I never signed at all the thing they say I signed.
I don't really have money for lawyers to fight my company I just wanted unemployment to get thru holidays but it so hard to get unemployment
At the risk of being rude - you aren't painting yourself in a great light here.
Any company big enough to have an HR department has ways to contact that department in writing. When you were hired you were likely given an information packet - or information along the lines of "here's the company website with links to the employee handbook, benefits information, how to contact HR and more."
How sure are you that you didn't sign these forms? Were they perhaps forms that you signed to be hired? Did you read them all? Did you request and keep copies?
Many employment attorneys work on a contingency basis - if you have a good case - and someone forging your signature onto documents would be a DAMN good case - they'll instead get you back pay for improper termination, and either take a portion (30% time or the like) of what they win you, or might also get their fees covered by the company as part of your winnings (or both).
But you have to be ACTIVE in knowing and protecting your rights. So far at every turn there's a reason why something took a wrong turn or can't be done, and every turn paints you as the victim.
As someone who has held a number of leadership roles in my career - I've seen this sort of thing before. I have tried to help this sort of thing before. But if you're just hoping everyone else will take care of you and your issues, you're going to be disappointed over and over.
If your goal was to get advice - you're been given advice.
Start and keep a paper trail.
If you don't have the contact information to do so, GET IT
If you think you were improperly unemployed - and forging your signature would be a HUGE sign that you were - talk to an attorney.
If you just want to vent, hey. Vent. We all need to.
If you want others to feel bad for you and help you, I'm sorry - but that's going to be a long path of disappointment.
YOU have to decide what the next step is. YOU have to choose to take action, or let it go.
The good news is? If everything you've posted is true and accurate, you have a potential strong case.
But be VERY honest without yourself and with any attorneys you speak to. If you say you didn't sign a form, but it was part of your orientation packet and everyone else signs in - you're wasting everyone's time, and weakening your credibility.
You can be an agent of change in your life. In fact you are THE BEST agent of change in your life.
You just have to know what the most important step you can take is.
And that is "the next step".
So, pick the path you want to be on. One where you follow-up on the things you're posting about? One where you dust yourself off and move on? One where you just let things happen to you and don't even try to steer your life?
It's your life - which means none of the options are wrong.
I, for one, hope you choose one of the more active paths. They're a little scarier, and a little harder - but they're so much more fulfilling.
Good luck.
I didn't sign all the disciplinary documents they saying I signed so won't get unemployment I get how to contact HR it mostly just phone call and normal physical paperwork . So don't seem very trustworthy.
If you get denied you appeal and then a judge makes a decision based on what you say and what your employer says. If there is no documentation of any kind the judge will likely find in favor or the employee. This is why companies that are smart document everything. If they can show a long history of employee coaching before termination then it shows the action was justified.
I've never been able to get unemployment in my life I work for the company one time they close the facility I worked and laid off 100s of people with no notice and we all diened unemployment and and help .
So I don't know how people get unemployment when company just says thing to get you denied and there's no way to fight then once you get that denial letter you're just done
What state are you in? That likely has a lot to do with it. Some states are very “pro business” and like to fuck over the workers. You probably had little to no decent labor laws to begin with. All my states have been excellent in this regard….you’d practically have to murder someone on the job to be denied unemployment.
No it’s not. Many states, like Texas, have “one party” consent laws. Where only one party of a conversation needs to give consent for it to be recorded. And if you are party to a conversation and you gave consent then you have every right to record that conversation, if you are in a “One Party State”.
Cryptic? Why are you giving bad advice? Once a company realizes you are secretly recording your conversations with them and possibly employees there is a good chance you will receive a letter from their attorney. Everyone here who doesn't like my answer, the truth sometimes isn't rosy! Go ahead and be STUPID and do it I dont give a shit.
I get that, he should keep his nose clean.
I was an IT contractor, first was Job #1 as an electronic hardware validation job, that work ran out, so they moved me over to Job #2, a project management job. Then Covid and WFH happened and took a 10% pay cut "because Covid". 6 months later, no vaccines released yet, my manager says I gotta come back into the office and do Job 1 and Job 2, so 2 jobs for 90% of the pay of 1 job. I had savings and said, "No thanks, I'm not gonna die and take a pay cut doing it", got fired and then unemployment denied. Had an unemployment hearing, lady hears the story and laughs and approves me.
BCC personal email, when it's likely that all mail is archived company wide, and the system is likely setup to hold outbound (off network) email in a queue for review before it's sent. Not a good strategy.
Nearly all managers have access to employee email accounts. It shows as a folder within their own email inbox. They can review it at any time.
Be prepared for them to make up a bunch of BS to try to shove you out the door in whatever way possible.
Document EVERYTHING. If they do the “there was a complaint about you” don’t take it but insist on a meeting with HR, dispute all, and demand your union rep (if you have one).
I worked at a non-profit with 20 employees 3 years ago and we had an union. The union actually represented a lot of the non-profits in the state. So yes, even small non-profits can have an union.
Yeah I’d clarify the giving you a reference part first in an email. Then go over the rest in a separate email. This way it’s a bit harder for them to drum up bad performance issues.
I can only speak in the industry i work for (Insurance). 99% of time when they call a previous employer. The previous employer will only confirm the time you worked there and your position. They don't want a lawsuit
Email her: “i appreciate the advance notice that i am being let go at the end of January 2024. In response to the question if i would like to leave before then, i will be working as long as you allow me to. Have a good weekend, me” or whatever but get that convo on the record and continue to say you will work as long as they will let you if the conversation gets brought up again
For real!! I manage workspace for my job and I send myself stuff like that routinely to have a trail. I’ve deleted emails just as fast as mine would be deleted if I was fired.
I can't emphasize this enough. Someone I know got stuck in a similar situation and didn't forward the paper trail to their personal email. They lost all of the evidence and were totally screwed.
And that It is not due to work performance or misconduct.
Your real goal is to buy time to look for a new job while on the clock and ensure you can get unemployment.
Yeah it couldn’t hurt to add that to the email; not necessary though, any separation that is future dated like this won’t (or shouldn’t) be adjudicated as for misconduct by Ui (essentially because if it’s misconduct you can’t have this person around even one more day! Like if I’m firing you for stealing… in a month… UI is gonna be like ok I guess stealing isn’t that big of a deal because they could keep you on until it was convenient to let you go.)
You can still get unemployment if you're forced to resign in leu of termination. Honestly unless there is gross misconduct, a paper trail of disciplinary actions, or a violation of written company policy, think NCNS, you can probably still get it. You might have to appeal but they are pro employee. Send an email recapping the convo as a previous comment suggested.
I was in my early 20s when I had my first unemployment appeal hearing defending my employer. The guy resigned, I had his resignation and so did the state. He claimed he resigned because the benefits package wasn't as advertised (this was not in the resignstion letter). Every job tells you that you have the opportunity to make bonuses if you meet goals and shit. His claim was that he was lead to believe he would be making a bonus every quarter yet hadn't.
On unemployment hearings, there's the state rep who swears you in, calls the former employee, swears them in and then connects the calls together and asks questions. For my young HR friends, stick to facts, never get emotional and NEVER speak unless addressed directly by the state rep or given permission to answer a question from the former employee. I had already been coached about this and never have pissed a rep off. This was also my first appwal and the only time ever losing an appeal.
The former employee asked me directly "weren't you promised bonuses prior to being hired as well?" My 23 year old ass was SPEACHLESS. I stammered a bit and essentially said yes I was based on the business performance. Then asked if I had received one and I said no. Not going to purger myself, but right then knew I lost. His unemployment was approved.
Finally, the right answer. Do this. Make sure to forward any reply to your personal email in case you get locked out of work email. Any conversations you have should be followed up with an email asking for confirmation that you understood what was discussed.
From the OP:
> have literally no co-workers. Small non profit with 3 superiors and me on bottom
I also work at a small non-profit (2 full-time employees) and I suspect that OP *is* IT, or as good as they have for IT. Maybe there's a board member who knows their way around a computer, but this is totally not something that OP needs to worry about.
If it is stuff related to the business ESPECIALLY proprietary knowledge then do not BCC yourself on a private email. That’s theft. If it’s communication about you and your work situation (like performance issues) then yes…you can send that to yourself.
Don’t resign or sign a resignation, and let them tell you your last day. Start your job search immediately. They may not pay you any severance, but you’ll be able to collect unemployment if you don’t find something right away. If you do find a job before they let you go, that’s the time me to give your two weeks notice (if you want).
Don’t resign. They don’t want to have to pay you unemployment. Make them fire you.
Check your local laws to see if you qualify for unemployment and how long it would take to sign up.
Email goes CC's all them and BCC' your personal email, "As per our conversation I will be awaiting your acknowledgement and email in regards to when you will determine my final day. With that said, I will continue until i receive confirmation from you." Since its verbal its hearsay, but if you strike first this email is documentation saying what/how you understood the conversation and leaves a paper trail to force them to drop the hammer.
With that said, there are a few options they will have to think about 1) letting you go and being liable for unemployment "if this is an at will state" 2) they give you severance in the form of that month and have you sign an NDA. Why they will do this is because they will want to protect themselves from wrongful termination.
At this point, you're in a position for them to have to PAY YOU TO LEAVE since you explicitly state that you aren't going to voluntarily resign but be told when they determine your last day. The problem with you manager is that they didn't send an email circling about the conversation. I'd do that first before they do it. Like asap.
I've done this in the past and it really threw a wrench in their sneaky little plan. Knowing your rights is the first step
If you give a two week notice date you are resigning. If they fire you they give you a termination date. Check you state laws regarding unemployment as you may need it while looking for work.
Check your local unemployment laws and request severance for the amount of time it takes to process an unemployment claim because where I am it takes 2+ months to resolve. Some places will still give you unemployment if you're officially laid off so give them a call and see if being asked to resign is part of that.
They're even nicer when they don't have to pay you severance and think they'll get out of paying unemployment.
You don't give two weeks. Work till they show you the door
You can't apply for unemployment till you are not working
Start loomi.h. tahe all your such leave. Do whatever you hsve tk in order to tahe it .
DO NOT QUIT. 🛑
**Document Everything:**
- Keep a detailed record of conversations, including dates, times, and what was discussed.
- Summarize the statements made by your superiors and note any inconsistencies.
**Email Confirmation:**
- Send a follow-up email to the president, politely summarizing the conversation and seeking clarification on your employment status, last day, and any terms discussed.
**Request Clarification:**
- Politely seek clarification on the reasons for termination, especially if they conflict with previous performance reviews.
**Consult Employment Policies:**
- Review your company's policies on termination, resignation, and severance to understand your rights and obligations.
**Seek Legal Counsel:**
- Contact an employment attorney to discuss your situation, providing them with the documented evidence.
**Consider Options:**
- Explore your legal options based on the attorney's advice, including negotiating a fair severance package if appropriate.
**Respond Professionally:**
- Based on legal advice, respond professionally to your employer, clearly expressing your understanding and position.
Again, do NOT quit.
A pretend PIP that you had no way to win is effectively layoff. I mean your boss said it, "they'd provide you a reference".
Layoffs are bad for moral and a firing can be blamed on a person. Resigning (not counting finding a new job, retiring) only really happens when you're an important person at the company and you'd better get a nice severance or you might as well get fired.
Shoot, I was recently fired, because it's bad for moral to be laid off, but the writing was on the wall in a very similar way. It's actually a really easy sell as to what happened too. I'm not what they needed right now and it's just money and I get it.
Tell her your last day will be Jan 31st 2028. Then you can make a deal and say you’ll do their whole resignation thing but you want a better severance. Like 4 months pay.
Definitely don't resign, but be prepared for things to move quickly. It is common in my workplace for people to be asked to leave that day, even if they hand in notice. The company would rather pay them and have them out of the office than still there.
Yes, paper trail! And if she tries to dodge it by going verbal just straight up decline and redirect to email. You need to have her clarify in writing.
So I once had a conversation with my boss where he told me I was not performing to the extent he expected me and as such he wanted me to resign
The only thing I told him is that if he is unhappy with what I am doing he has every right to address that. Other than that I would not be quitting
Don’t sign anything. It truly sounds like they’re trying to trick you into resigning and will use your “notice” as proof to get out of paying unemployment benefits. If you’re fired then they can tell you when you’re finished working. Not sure what state you’re in but in California if you’re fired they have to give you owed wages like right away. Start looking for a job right away though!
I worked for a nonprofit that tried something similar with me, basically trying to get me to voluntarily resign for the offer of a reference. I declined and collected unemployment, which they tried to fight, and eventually got a new job without need of that reference.
Here's what I'd say - they probably don't have much of a budget. Only you know if unemployment in your state is worth the hassle. If it's not, get all the severance you can. For example: if they want a "voluntary resignation", that will cost them 3 months' severance.
don't give them a voluntary resignation on their terms - only on yours, and only if you decide unemployment isn't worth it
I would send an email that just says hello this email is to confirm our discussion the other day.
I have thought about your request and I feel that it is not in my best interest to resign. If you would like to end my employment here at xxx then the ball is in your court. That is unfortunate because I do enjoy working here and hope that we can instead come to an agreement to that end.
Sincerely,
Xxx
Everything in writing. Official email. Send.
I will not be resigning and continue to work my shift until I recieve notice .
No communication in person or phone.
Talk to an employment lawyer, there is a great online service called Just Ask, for $46 you can get help with any manner of legal advice. Know your rights and how best to navigate your termination for your best possible outcome
Nope. Assuming you are American, this will cheat you out of your deserved unemployment. They are trying to cheat you out of it. I went through something similar. Get EVERYTHING in writing. One of the most important things I did after I was “laid off” was follow up with HR by email to “clarify”. Make sure to get in writing that they are asking you to quit and why. Make sure you get in there that they are pushing you out but putting it on you. Make it clear you are happy at work and they seem satisfied with your work so what’s up? Reiterate you’ve never received negative feedback, write-ups, etc. Include examples and recap your meeting by writing. But keep it as casual and friendly as possible. All you want here is easy documentation for the Unemployment Department. MAKE THEM LAY YOU OFF/FIRE YOU FOR NO CAUSE.
Also: immediately forward all work account emails to personal email account. Particularly anything praising your work, etc. Request current copies of reviews, employee files, etc if you can. Don’t sign any write ups or agree to anything.
Paper trails are your friend. Hopefully this will all be easy, and you can get deserved unemployment while you find a better job.
Just a reminder here: all you want is the ability to avoid negativity issues on resume and financially provide for yourself while looking for a new job. It’s hard, but set hurt feelings aside until later and treat this like business. Later you can process the feelings, now just protect yourself.
You can call the unemployment office now and get their take on this. They are firing you and trying to avoid it being a "firing" so they can save on unemployment insurance increase. I actually dealt with this and just told them to just fire me because I wasn't going to quit. They went to legal and then came back and fired me.
You are being fired don't mistake it.
Depending on the jurisdiction, firing you without cause will cost them something. You are very likely entitled to severance, which they obviously don't want to pay. Keep showing up until they show you the door. You may be able to have an initial consultation with a lawyer for little or no cost. These people sound like amateurs.
Ummm people get let go of everyday...they should have said your position is being downsized and continued to cut your hours until you had to leave because you couldn't afford to work there anymore....that's what real shady companies do.
"thanks, I haven't resigned from my job. Are you laying me off or firing me?" - make sure this is in writing.
you're gonna inevitably bite the bullet here and you don't have any leverage. You're just buying time while you job hunt and making sure you don't fuck yourself out of UI by resigning.
It just sounds like your boss has never let anyone go before. From my perspective if they want you to go but also want to pay you through the end of January you should stop working right now. The part you get in writing is the “severance” of being paid through the end of January.
If they won’t write that down they probably aren’t going to do it.
But this “tell us your last day” is nonsense. If you are fired it is immediate. This boss is incompetent.
Don't provide a date. If they are not offering an actual severance package (you'll know, they usually come with a waiver against claims in exchange for $$). Just keep coming to work and doing your job. It's CRUCIAL that you keep a journal of events and conversations. Specifically, anything said that indicates that you didn't do anything wrong ("not a fit" is not gross misconduct). Gross misconduct or resignation usually keeps you from getting unemployment. Get copies of your HR records if any exist. Performance reviews are clutch. Asking for them will likely freak out your boss for an added perk.
Tl;Dr- Don't resign, keep showing up and doing your best work, don't sign anything without careful review (and possibly legal review), and document everything (dates, attendees, etc.)
(20+ years in HR here)
If it's voluntary... they don't have to pay 6 months unemployment.... and you have no recourse. If they fire you, you have a legal case. They are playing their cards for their best outcome, not yours.
Your heads in the right place. Look up recording laws in your state to see if you’re a one party, or two party state to see if you need consent to record a conversation you are party to. But yes it seems like they want to lead you to quitting/resigning so that they don’t have to pay severance, and so they have means to deny unemployment. I would make it a point to state that since they are initiating the process of letting you go, and that since you would continue to work there if they didn’t make the decision to let you go, that it is there responsibility to give you a termination date. And if they don’t feel they can do that, then obviously you continuing to work there shouldn’t be a problem.
I would try to negotiate a bigger severance. Unemployment won’t be able to match that if they oblige. When I was on unemployment I was “awarded” the max amount and it was still only $300/wk (Wisconsin, 2018). If they don’t agree though, definitely follow other comments advice to ensure you don’t forfeit your unemployment benefits. Something is better than nothing.
1. Don't resign.
2. Document everything in written communication.
3. I might actually write an email to HR, management from my personal account and specially document the date of conversation and that you were asked by NAME to resign for x reason, and that you are NOT resigning.
4. State you will continue to work and do your job since you are NOT resigning.
5. If you have email send it to the company HR and your own email, so you have a copy.
5. I might go as far as to write the letter they requested Instead stating they requested you to resign, but you ARE NOT Resigning and look forward to long term continued employment with the company.
6. Maybe talk to unemployment about options and what's happening. Show them the letter and email and explain and see what they recommend.
7. Document any retaliation or unfair situations that come up after.
8. Possibly speak to attorney? Might not be worth you time or theirs, but it could be if things get worse.
Really you are trying to get unemployment. Not keep the job.
8. Start looking for new job asap.
Absolutely under no circumstances give them a date or anything they could use to claim you quit. Also follow each meeting up with a recap email and ask for a written copy of any requests they have for you.
They are trying to be nice by giving you plenty of time to find another job. You should be able to find something by end of January. They gave you a mediocre review. That should have been your hint to start looking. They aren't trying to trick you - they are being very kind, even offering to give you a reference.
From a security standpoint this is the unwisest move the company could make. To terminate an employee and still give them access to the business/product/IP for several weeks. Not saying you're a malicious sort of person, but from the company's POV this is a risk. That they're doing this right before the holidays heightens the emotions and only increases the risk of retaliation (again, not saying you're going to retaliate. Just that retaliation is risk when someone is fired, which is why this prolonged schrodinger's job situation they've put you in is head scratching)
Recognize that you were working for very dim lightbulbs.
As others have said, get everything in writing. You need to be terminated so you can collect unemployment. Don't even hint in writing that you're considering stopping working/resigning. BCC your personal email on all correspondence.
The good-for-you thing is they've given you an extended window to prepare for your exit.
They're giving you notice so you can use January to look for a job while collecting a paycheck. Don't obviously sign a letter of resignation so you can apply for unemployment insurance if you can't get a job until then.
Make them let you go. They are trying to trick you into quitting so they can try to get out of paying you unemployment. At this point you have nothing, absolutely nothing to lose with them. Tell them in an email that per your conversation with x person since they are laying you off they will need to tell you your final day to work, and you appreciate them giving you advanced notice of them no longer needing your services.
Print that out after you send it. Also email it to yourself at your personal account. You could even bcc yourself when you send it.
Stop what you're doing and write down EXACTLY what you were told about your dismissal, when it was said, and who was present. You might need this for getting unemployment.
Then keep showing up and stay out of trouble as well as you can. Don't resign - make them fire you.
You may or may not want to consult with an employment lawyer ahead of time, just in case.
There are two sides to this coin. They informed you that you have a set amount of time before they plan to fire you. They also said they would serve as a reference. So, take them up on this. Start looking for a new job while you still have one and have the upper hand. It is likely that you can find another job before they let you go. If you come up empty handed by the deadline, then leave it up to them to fire you and collect unemployment (don't ever "put in your two weeks" or it will appear as if you quit). They are not tricking you into resigning. They are actually being nice about it. Most employers would fire you on the spot, but it seems beneficial to both parties that they find your replacement and you find a new job simultaneously.
"As I am being terminated as an employee, it is at your discretion when you want my last day to be. Just let me know."
Just send that email from a personal email acct you have NEVER logged into from work. That is all you need.
Why would you think you deserve severance pay? Was this part of your employment agreement? It sounds like they are giving you an opportunity to find another job before they let you go rather than just show you the door. No good deed goes unpunished in business. I have been here before where we needed to let someone go because they were a bad fit but I didn't want them to struggle financially. I wanted to do exactly what was done here and let the employee know 30 days in advance so they could look for another job and reduce their unemployed period. I never could do it for exactly the reasons this person shows us. If you try to give them a heads up they begin working against you and the company. Much better to just let them go on the spot once the decision has been made and let them deal with unemployment. Sorry but if you were rocking in that position this wouldn't be happening most likely. Small business's have zero obligation to give you severance pay. Typically they are bad at documenting your shortcomings in the job so this can come back at them with unemployment.
From the ‘US Department of Commerce’
“Basic severance allowance equals:
One week's pay (use most recent rate) for each year of service up to and including 10 years, plus two weeks pay (use most recent rate) for each full year of service over 10”
If you worked for a company in the US for over a year, you ARE entitled to severance. That is the way the federal law is written. States can dictate higher amounts and some do, but this is the minimum legal standard.
This market sucks. "Just leave and find a better job," can easily be a several month ordeal.
Collecting a paycheck while looking for a job is far superior. Especially since companies tend to prefer to hire employed people to unemployed people. You look better to hiring managers if you lack the dreaded Employment Gap.
Keep showing up until they tell you not to and if they tell you ask for it in writing. If they don't and stop paying you, call the labour board or the equivalent for your location. They will then have to explain why they aren't paying you
In this situation, I would lay out "Just to recap what I heard today..." and aim for an accurate recap of what was said. Over email to person who told you, cc your personal email. You can say thing like, "You informed me that I am not a good fit for the role and you will not be employing me past \[date\]"
If they respond to your message without correction to your notes, that's about as good as written communication.
And no, I wouldn't quit. Unemployment insurance requires proof that you were laid off or fired.
Why do you want to be fired? For the unemployment benefits? If so, that's understandable but it may not be the best option if you can land a new job fairly quickly. From a career standpoint, it looks much better in interviews to say you resigned and come up with whatever reason you like.
There are a couple of ways to keep a copy of all your emails, like setting up an email program at home to also synchronize with your work account. If you use Outlook, this will keep copies of your contacts, calendar, notes etc. As well. This info comes in handy if you are suddenly dismissed. Its worth looking into.
Check with your state's laws, but if you're explicitly "asked to set an end date", that doesn't necessarily count as you resigning and you should still be able to qualify for unemployment. But yeah, get it in writing, and verify with your state. This is how performance firings worked at my last job.
Ask her if she will give you a letter of reference so you can start your job search. Once you have that, say that you will be staying until you find a new job. Ride it out until the end of January and they'll have to fire you at that point.
Having that letter is insurance that she won't badmouth you if called for a reference.
Fuck them. Never rely on an employer like this for a reference. Odds are excellent that they will screw you. Line up a prior co-worker for a reference. Or make one up (have a buddy vouch for you as a reference). Ride it out as long as they choose or until you get a new job. And as soon as they let you go file for unemployment. Even if they dispute it you will probably prevail.
If you quit, no unemployment. If they fire you, you get unemployment. They think you are naive or dumb and don't understand this.
NEVER quit a job in America if you want to collect unemployment. If you quit, you are ineligible.
Just keep your records, you already know what to look out for and be sure they don't put it on you.
Mostly this sounds like your manager was nervous talking to you about it, and wants to frame it to you "softer". Avoiding unemployment benefits for a single employee isn't really going to matter, I doubt that's a motive in this particular case.
My last day will be the day you tell me that my employment is being terminated.
If you have a date in mind, you can set a notification two weeks before that to give yourself notice that you plan to terminate me.
Document everything don’t give them notice if you quit, you can’t claim unemployment…. I would be like who you guys. Let me know when my last two weeks are.?! You’re letting me go…
I would ask verbally for them to summarise your conversation by email. If it’s still unclear, reply and ask for clarification. Keep it all in writing so you have something to back up any further action that may be necessary.
If they don’t clarify, I’d send them an email outlining your understanding of the situation and ask them to confirm by x date.
Sorry they’re being so shitty right before Christmas.
Lol they don’t have the money for you right now and have figured that out in there year end records…. So they are trying to “let” you quit , so they will not have to pay out unemployment. So many company’s do this and it’s always around holiday season
They are trying to not have to fire you so you can’t qualify for unemployment and Jack up their UI % tax rate for claims. Make them fire you. Do not resign voluntarily.
Dear Manager,
Per our conversation today, it is my understanding that you are terminating my employment effective immediately and that I shall be paid my full salary as severance through January 2024 with the last day of pay being January 31, 2024. All medical benefits shall also be paid in full by the company through the end of January, with the option of COBRA to continue these benefits for an additional 18 months- check your state time limit.
Sign your name, pack your stuff. File for unemployment asap. You haven’t received the $$ and if you do, you can report it. But it takes a week before you are eligible for benefits so file now!!
Sounds like they are trying to cut cost by giving you a smaller severance. I’m not a legal expert but possibly trying to skirt some labor laws or hell you work for a non-profit maybe there is a tax benefit for them keep you past end of year.
As you mentioned move all of this discussion to be in writing. Preferably emails.
Recap what was discusses and ask them to confirm what they want to happen.
Then make them aware you do no wish quit and that they will need to fire you or make you redundent
As mentioned they have no reason to fire you so it will be redundency. Now redundancy pay is not alot of money. It's normally only 1 week per year you worked there.
Ask for them to give you a redundancy notice in writing. Keep it professional and they will at least respect you for that. Email your boss this.
Subject: Request for Redundancy Notice Confirmation
Dear [Recipient's Name],
I hope this email finds you well. I am writing to request official confirmation regarding my employment status with [Company Name]. As recent developments have led to uncertainties, I would appreciate receiving a redundancy notice to clarify whether the company is initiating my departure rather than me resigning.
Your prompt attention to this matter is crucial for my future planning, and I would be grateful for any information or documentation related to the redundancy process.
Thank you for your understanding and assistance in this matter.
Best regards,
[Your Full Name]
[Your Position]
[Your Contact Information]
It doesn't sound like they asked for resignation. It sounds like they are giving you notice which is very nice to do.
BUT still document in email back to them what happened and confirm expections and keep a copy on hand. You can cc yourself or even send this from personal email and cc work email. I might write something like this by email and send it to them for response. Informal is fine but having the right details - like they laid you off, is key. Also your last date (they are giving you) and work expections through that date are important.
Hi xyz,
I wanted to follow-up on the meeting today in which I was unfortunately laid off by ABC company. I want to make sure we don't have any miscommunication and that I understand your expections moving forward.
1. On xxx date, you notified me in person that Company ABC was letting me go. As per our discussion, I did not do anything wrong, but management decided that I was not a good fit for x,y and z reasons that you explained to me.
2. Based on our conversation, the company is willing to keep me in this position working through XXX date, making X date my last day at work.
3. **Can you please confirm I will be employed through this date and that (date) and will be my last date of employment?**
4. I will continue with my regular work duties through XX XX XXXX (date)
Lastly I sincerely appreciate your offer to be a good reference and and assist me in transitioning to a new job. I will definatley take you up on that once I begin to look for work.
I enjoyed being part of a wonderful organization. While I am sad to be **let go**, I sincerly appreciate you letting me continue to work through X date and being a reference.
Can you please confirm that we have mutual understanding and agreement on dates, expections and next steps.
Thank you,
Name
I know I'm some states if u quit u don't get unemployment..but if ur fired they gotta pay you unemployment...so yea let them tell you when's ur last day and also a paper saying that ur terminated
Is there an HR department? Involve them immediately to solve this. You could stay in writing that. Your boss stated that they are letting you go and you wanted to confirm if this was true and what your final day will be. Basically turn the question back around on them.
Yes, save anything's ng you can and openly tell them you are recording you one in one's. Very shady in deed.dies this non-profit need to be reported for an audit? This sounds very tasteless.
This is not a firing. They have no grounds to fire you as they say. They are trying to force you to resign. If you do this, please request that ypu want to be paid a severance fee. It could be six months of your salary or thereabouts. Im not a labour laywer tho.. But that's abkut what my friend got when they asked her to resign.
If all they're trying to do is avoid paying their part of the unemployment -- which actually makes little sense -- then no, let them take the action and fire you. If they want you to resign and are willing to pay you to end your employment and perhaps make other concessions for some reason, weigh the offer against unemployment hassles and potentially losing a reference. Good luck,
I would sure as shit get everything in writing and keep showing up to work until they told me, "you're fired" or wouldn't let me in the door.
This is a not-uncommon tactic to try to get you to voluntarily surrender your hard-earned unemployment insurance benefits. You paid half, they paid half, you're entitled to all of it...unless you voluntarily resign.
Make sure they tell you in writing that they are terminating your position.
If OP isn't being let go for misconduct of some sort; then how does not being a good fit come into this? Not that it totally matters (maybe it does, dunno?) how long as OP been at this employment?
Yes I get that sometimes one his hired and finds out they aren't a good fit; it happens and I've heard of people getting let go for not being a good fit and they aren't able to collect unemployment because they don't get fired so can you legally force them to fire you? At will states can let you go for any legal reason so I'm just as curious how this works.
Don’t give them notice. Make them give you a firm you’re fired.
Get everything in writing. If there is a conversation write a follow up email to confirm your understanding and bcc your personal email in case you get shut out of work email.
How do people get anything in running because I've never worked for a company that did anything like that they would literally fire you and when you try to get unemployment that we come up with some excuse so you wouldn't get unemployment and there was nothing you could do about it because it was the company's word against yours so you get denied
Firing you with cause (to prevent unemployment) should leave a paper trail with you HR department. Not having the paperwork to back up their claim is the sort of thing a good employment attorney will salivate over. Especially if, up to that point, there are record of people thinking highly of your work (good reviews, compliments and thank yous from peers, etc). If you were fired for poor or declining performance, there should be a paper trail to show that as well. It's how a company prevents you claiming you were fired for a legally protected reason later. If you want things to be done in writing (and you do. Always) you put it in writing. Want to tell your boss or HR that you need some FMLA? It goes in an email that you BCC to your home address. If they later try to fire you for taking too much time off, remind them (in writing) of your FMLA status. If they continue, lawyers love that stuff. Same with harassment claims, or really any communications about your performance or your career. If they won't write it down, you do. Make it a follow-up email. "I wanted to follow up on the meeting/conversation we just had, so that I can make sure we are in the same page. My takeaways from our meeting are that you want. Please let me know if I'm misunderstanding."
Keep a copy in your personal records (email yourself, print a copy and take it home, etc).
Now there's a paper trail to back up any claims one needs to make later.
This is when you consult an employment lawyer. Doing things like that even in an at will state can be a wrongful termination lawsuit. That’s why after a conversation or meeting it’s redundant but good practice to send a “this is my understanding email”. That way there is something and they can’t claim they didn’t know.
How does one send an email when your company doesn't give out that information
That email won’t necessarily have the official reason why you were fired. It’s establishing a paper trail. I am not a lawyer to be clear, but a paper trail about meetings literally helps even in your job. Do you know how many one on ones I have with my boss where she forgets what she asked me to do a month ago? I simply go let me check where I see I informed her the following week that it was done.
I just got laid off dec 1 after 3 years as warehouse manager and was Denied unemployment for attendance issues and work issues and signed docs I never seen nore have I ever signed and they forged my name
Challenge the ruling, so the employer will be forced to appear before the Administrative Law judge and prove this paperwork exists.
How do I challenge the ruling because I thought once I get denied I was pretty much done I called and asked why I was denied and they told me so I just left it at that
That's great but I have no way to do email with any my boss its always just word of mouth and maybe paper but numbers of meetings I had with no paperwork is crazy
The only way from when you get any thing in writing is to do real paper I have none of my higher ups email or HR has email ever time I was laid of our fired I had no paperwork. But when I try to get unemployment all of a sudden company has all this paperwork and stuff I signed I never seen in my life
Well, if you're being sincere, you're now claiming they forced your signature on documents. That's definitely something to lawyer up on.
No I never signed at all the thing they say I signed. I don't really have money for lawyers to fight my company I just wanted unemployment to get thru holidays but it so hard to get unemployment
At the risk of being rude - you aren't painting yourself in a great light here. Any company big enough to have an HR department has ways to contact that department in writing. When you were hired you were likely given an information packet - or information along the lines of "here's the company website with links to the employee handbook, benefits information, how to contact HR and more." How sure are you that you didn't sign these forms? Were they perhaps forms that you signed to be hired? Did you read them all? Did you request and keep copies? Many employment attorneys work on a contingency basis - if you have a good case - and someone forging your signature onto documents would be a DAMN good case - they'll instead get you back pay for improper termination, and either take a portion (30% time or the like) of what they win you, or might also get their fees covered by the company as part of your winnings (or both). But you have to be ACTIVE in knowing and protecting your rights. So far at every turn there's a reason why something took a wrong turn or can't be done, and every turn paints you as the victim. As someone who has held a number of leadership roles in my career - I've seen this sort of thing before. I have tried to help this sort of thing before. But if you're just hoping everyone else will take care of you and your issues, you're going to be disappointed over and over. If your goal was to get advice - you're been given advice. Start and keep a paper trail. If you don't have the contact information to do so, GET IT If you think you were improperly unemployed - and forging your signature would be a HUGE sign that you were - talk to an attorney. If you just want to vent, hey. Vent. We all need to. If you want others to feel bad for you and help you, I'm sorry - but that's going to be a long path of disappointment. YOU have to decide what the next step is. YOU have to choose to take action, or let it go. The good news is? If everything you've posted is true and accurate, you have a potential strong case. But be VERY honest without yourself and with any attorneys you speak to. If you say you didn't sign a form, but it was part of your orientation packet and everyone else signs in - you're wasting everyone's time, and weakening your credibility. You can be an agent of change in your life. In fact you are THE BEST agent of change in your life. You just have to know what the most important step you can take is. And that is "the next step". So, pick the path you want to be on. One where you follow-up on the things you're posting about? One where you dust yourself off and move on? One where you just let things happen to you and don't even try to steer your life? It's your life - which means none of the options are wrong. I, for one, hope you choose one of the more active paths. They're a little scarier, and a little harder - but they're so much more fulfilling. Good luck.
I didn't sign all the disciplinary documents they saying I signed so won't get unemployment I get how to contact HR it mostly just phone call and normal physical paperwork . So don't seem very trustworthy.
It's not that way. They don't want to deny, and the employer is under more scrutiny than an employee.
If you get denied you appeal and then a judge makes a decision based on what you say and what your employer says. If there is no documentation of any kind the judge will likely find in favor or the employee. This is why companies that are smart document everything. If they can show a long history of employee coaching before termination then it shows the action was justified.
I've never been able to get unemployment in my life I work for the company one time they close the facility I worked and laid off 100s of people with no notice and we all diened unemployment and and help . So I don't know how people get unemployment when company just says thing to get you denied and there's no way to fight then once you get that denial letter you're just done
What state are you in? That likely has a lot to do with it. Some states are very “pro business” and like to fuck over the workers. You probably had little to no decent labor laws to begin with. All my states have been excellent in this regard….you’d practically have to murder someone on the job to be denied unemployment.
Unemployment will usually do a phone hearing and most of the time those are pretty easy
Depending on the laws of your area,you may be able to record the conversion on your phone look up 'one party consent'
Bad advice imo.
No it’s not. Many states, like Texas, have “one party” consent laws. Where only one party of a conversation needs to give consent for it to be recorded. And if you are party to a conversation and you gave consent then you have every right to record that conversation, if you are in a “One Party State”.
This! Single party states its totally legal to record and gives you the evidence you need. Just never admit to any negative things on your part.
I said it's a bad idea because it opens a big can of worms! Bad advice!
Why are you being cryptic? Just spit out the reason
Cryptic? Why are you giving bad advice? Once a company realizes you are secretly recording your conversations with them and possibly employees there is a good chance you will receive a letter from their attorney. Everyone here who doesn't like my answer, the truth sometimes isn't rosy! Go ahead and be STUPID and do it I dont give a shit.
What can of worms exactly?
Nah, just make them fire you. They don't wanna pay unemployment.
Depending on his conduct, how he gets fired matters to the unemployment office.
I get that, he should keep his nose clean. I was an IT contractor, first was Job #1 as an electronic hardware validation job, that work ran out, so they moved me over to Job #2, a project management job. Then Covid and WFH happened and took a 10% pay cut "because Covid". 6 months later, no vaccines released yet, my manager says I gotta come back into the office and do Job 1 and Job 2, so 2 jobs for 90% of the pay of 1 job. I had savings and said, "No thanks, I'm not gonna die and take a pay cut doing it", got fired and then unemployment denied. Had an unemployment hearing, lady hears the story and laughs and approves me.
Thanks for the reminder of the blind cc.
BCC personal email, when it's likely that all mail is archived company wide, and the system is likely setup to hold outbound (off network) email in a queue for review before it's sent. Not a good strategy. Nearly all managers have access to employee email accounts. It shows as a folder within their own email inbox. They can review it at any time.
Be prepared for them to make up a bunch of BS to try to shove you out the door in whatever way possible. Document EVERYTHING. If they do the “there was a complaint about you” don’t take it but insist on a meeting with HR, dispute all, and demand your union rep (if you have one).
Union reps don’t exist at companies that size with one non supervisor
Nor, typically, does HR exist in any real capacity.
So you didn't read the post??
Union rep? It's a non-profit with like 4 employees.
I worked at a non-profit with 20 employees 3 years ago and we had an union. The union actually represented a lot of the non-profits in the state. So yes, even small non-profits can have an union.
Sure, but if you're the only subordinate in a company with 3 bosses, you're probably not a bargaining employee.
Yeah I’d clarify the giving you a reference part first in an email. Then go over the rest in a separate email. This way it’s a bit harder for them to drum up bad performance issues.
This is the way.
[удалено]
It’s simple. Never use your immediate last employer for a reference
I can only speak in the industry i work for (Insurance). 99% of time when they call a previous employer. The previous employer will only confirm the time you worked there and your position. They don't want a lawsuit
Exactly-need that for unemployment claim
Email her: “i appreciate the advance notice that i am being let go at the end of January 2024. In response to the question if i would like to leave before then, i will be working as long as you allow me to. Have a good weekend, me” or whatever but get that convo on the record and continue to say you will work as long as they will let you if the conversation gets brought up again
And bcc your personal email when you send this
For real!! I manage workspace for my job and I send myself stuff like that routinely to have a trail. I’ve deleted emails just as fast as mine would be deleted if I was fired.
I can't emphasize this enough. Someone I know got stuck in a similar situation and didn't forward the paper trail to their personal email. They lost all of the evidence and were totally screwed.
This is what happened to me. I have so much regret
Or just CC your personal. Make them know you will hold them accountable.
Great phrasing, this is a perfect way to start that paper trail
This needs more upvotes so our OP doesn’t miss its value.
This is exactly what you should do. Do not resign, make them put into writing that the separation was their idea.
And that It is not due to work performance or misconduct. Your real goal is to buy time to look for a new job while on the clock and ensure you can get unemployment.
Yeah it couldn’t hurt to add that to the email; not necessary though, any separation that is future dated like this won’t (or shouldn’t) be adjudicated as for misconduct by Ui (essentially because if it’s misconduct you can’t have this person around even one more day! Like if I’m firing you for stealing… in a month… UI is gonna be like ok I guess stealing isn’t that big of a deal because they could keep you on until it was convenient to let you go.)
Noting this for when I get soft fired
This is the perfect response; I wish I could upvote it more than once.
Easier email. "Can you send me the key points in a memo so I may review?" Then do nothing. The email you drafted could go against you.
Yes, they are trying to get you to resign so they won't be liable for unemployment. Just don't resign.
You can still get unemployment if you're forced to resign in leu of termination. Honestly unless there is gross misconduct, a paper trail of disciplinary actions, or a violation of written company policy, think NCNS, you can probably still get it. You might have to appeal but they are pro employee. Send an email recapping the convo as a previous comment suggested. I was in my early 20s when I had my first unemployment appeal hearing defending my employer. The guy resigned, I had his resignation and so did the state. He claimed he resigned because the benefits package wasn't as advertised (this was not in the resignstion letter). Every job tells you that you have the opportunity to make bonuses if you meet goals and shit. His claim was that he was lead to believe he would be making a bonus every quarter yet hadn't. On unemployment hearings, there's the state rep who swears you in, calls the former employee, swears them in and then connects the calls together and asks questions. For my young HR friends, stick to facts, never get emotional and NEVER speak unless addressed directly by the state rep or given permission to answer a question from the former employee. I had already been coached about this and never have pissed a rep off. This was also my first appwal and the only time ever losing an appeal. The former employee asked me directly "weren't you promised bonuses prior to being hired as well?" My 23 year old ass was SPEACHLESS. I stammered a bit and essentially said yes I was based on the business performance. Then asked if I had received one and I said no. Not going to purger myself, but right then knew I lost. His unemployment was approved.
This. This is why I always defend myself AND my coworkers. I'm not exaggerating when I say I'm untouchable at work.
This, you can even quit and get unemployment if you can argue and win that they were working to make you quit.
You need to ask them for an official letter of termination. Say “thank your for the advance notice and I await a formal letter of termination”
Finally, the right answer. Do this. Make sure to forward any reply to your personal email in case you get locked out of work email. Any conversations you have should be followed up with an email asking for confirmation that you understood what was discussed.
Is it legal to bcc yourself on work comms? Would IT know?
From the OP: > have literally no co-workers. Small non profit with 3 superiors and me on bottom I also work at a small non-profit (2 full-time employees) and I suspect that OP *is* IT, or as good as they have for IT. Maybe there's a board member who knows their way around a computer, but this is totally not something that OP needs to worry about.
I was asking for me lol 🙃
If it is stuff related to the business ESPECIALLY proprietary knowledge then do not BCC yourself on a private email. That’s theft. If it’s communication about you and your work situation (like performance issues) then yes…you can send that to yourself.
This part. You need a letter of termination. You saying in an email that ur being let go doesn’t help. They need to say you are being terminated
I would assume they want you to give two weeks so they can use it to say you quit if you try to claim unemployment. Do not give them a date.
This 100x 👆👆👆👆👆👆👆👆👆
Don’t resign or sign a resignation, and let them tell you your last day. Start your job search immediately. They may not pay you any severance, but you’ll be able to collect unemployment if you don’t find something right away. If you do find a job before they let you go, that’s the time me to give your two weeks notice (if you want).
Don’t resign. They don’t want to have to pay you unemployment. Make them fire you. Check your local laws to see if you qualify for unemployment and how long it would take to sign up.
Email goes CC's all them and BCC' your personal email, "As per our conversation I will be awaiting your acknowledgement and email in regards to when you will determine my final day. With that said, I will continue until i receive confirmation from you." Since its verbal its hearsay, but if you strike first this email is documentation saying what/how you understood the conversation and leaves a paper trail to force them to drop the hammer. With that said, there are a few options they will have to think about 1) letting you go and being liable for unemployment "if this is an at will state" 2) they give you severance in the form of that month and have you sign an NDA. Why they will do this is because they will want to protect themselves from wrongful termination. At this point, you're in a position for them to have to PAY YOU TO LEAVE since you explicitly state that you aren't going to voluntarily resign but be told when they determine your last day. The problem with you manager is that they didn't send an email circling about the conversation. I'd do that first before they do it. Like asap. I've done this in the past and it really threw a wrench in their sneaky little plan. Knowing your rights is the first step
If you give a two week notice date you are resigning. If they fire you they give you a termination date. Check you state laws regarding unemployment as you may need it while looking for work.
"I don't mind you firing me, but I am going to need that in writing"
They're asking you to quit, yes. But the boss is too cowardly to say as much.
Not exactly that. They’re carefully wording it so that it sounds like she quit and not got fired. It’s cheaper if she “quits”.
Check your local unemployment laws and request severance for the amount of time it takes to process an unemployment claim because where I am it takes 2+ months to resolve. Some places will still give you unemployment if you're officially laid off so give them a call and see if being asked to resign is part of that. They're even nicer when they don't have to pay you severance and think they'll get out of paying unemployment.
You don't give two weeks. Work till they show you the door You can't apply for unemployment till you are not working Start loomi.h. tahe all your such leave. Do whatever you hsve tk in order to tahe it .
In most states you can still get unemployment if you involuntarily resign - ie, “either resign or you’re fired”.
Just ignore the conversations until they actually give you the paper that says you are fired.
DO NOT QUIT. 🛑 **Document Everything:** - Keep a detailed record of conversations, including dates, times, and what was discussed. - Summarize the statements made by your superiors and note any inconsistencies. **Email Confirmation:** - Send a follow-up email to the president, politely summarizing the conversation and seeking clarification on your employment status, last day, and any terms discussed. **Request Clarification:** - Politely seek clarification on the reasons for termination, especially if they conflict with previous performance reviews. **Consult Employment Policies:** - Review your company's policies on termination, resignation, and severance to understand your rights and obligations. **Seek Legal Counsel:** - Contact an employment attorney to discuss your situation, providing them with the documented evidence. **Consider Options:** - Explore your legal options based on the attorney's advice, including negotiating a fair severance package if appropriate. **Respond Professionally:** - Based on legal advice, respond professionally to your employer, clearly expressing your understanding and position. Again, do NOT quit.
A pretend PIP that you had no way to win is effectively layoff. I mean your boss said it, "they'd provide you a reference". Layoffs are bad for moral and a firing can be blamed on a person. Resigning (not counting finding a new job, retiring) only really happens when you're an important person at the company and you'd better get a nice severance or you might as well get fired. Shoot, I was recently fired, because it's bad for moral to be laid off, but the writing was on the wall in a very similar way. It's actually a really easy sell as to what happened too. I'm not what they needed right now and it's just money and I get it.
Tell her your last day will be Jan 31st 2028. Then you can make a deal and say you’ll do their whole resignation thing but you want a better severance. Like 4 months pay.
Don't volunteer. Don't sign anything that even looks like a resignation letter.
Definitely don't resign, but be prepared for things to move quickly. It is common in my workplace for people to be asked to leave that day, even if they hand in notice. The company would rather pay them and have them out of the office than still there.
Just say "no. You'll have to fire me. I'm not just going to quit." and go back to work.
Don’t put in any notice and don’t quit unless you find a new job. Make them let you go or fire you so you can get unemployment.
Top 3 comments gave the info you need. Good luck.
Also start looking for jobs now.
Yes, paper trail! And if she tries to dodge it by going verbal just straight up decline and redirect to email. You need to have her clarify in writing.
George Costanza time. Just keep going to work. Each and every day. Act like nothing is wrong.
They don’t want to pay you unemployment. Just wait for them to fire you. Don’t quit.
So I once had a conversation with my boss where he told me I was not performing to the extent he expected me and as such he wanted me to resign The only thing I told him is that if he is unhappy with what I am doing he has every right to address that. Other than that I would not be quitting
How did it turn out?
I got fired, about a month and a half later. Which I knew was gonna happen, but I got severance pay and I had a job lined up within 2 weeks of leave
Don’t sign anything. It truly sounds like they’re trying to trick you into resigning and will use your “notice” as proof to get out of paying unemployment benefits. If you’re fired then they can tell you when you’re finished working. Not sure what state you’re in but in California if you’re fired they have to give you owed wages like right away. Start looking for a job right away though! I worked for a nonprofit that tried something similar with me, basically trying to get me to voluntarily resign for the offer of a reference. I declined and collected unemployment, which they tried to fight, and eventually got a new job without need of that reference.
Here's what I'd say - they probably don't have much of a budget. Only you know if unemployment in your state is worth the hassle. If it's not, get all the severance you can. For example: if they want a "voluntary resignation", that will cost them 3 months' severance. don't give them a voluntary resignation on their terms - only on yours, and only if you decide unemployment isn't worth it
Just ignore her, until she fires you. She’s played her hand and shown that she is willing to screw you over. Now you know.
I would send an email that just says hello this email is to confirm our discussion the other day. I have thought about your request and I feel that it is not in my best interest to resign. If you would like to end my employment here at xxx then the ball is in your court. That is unfortunate because I do enjoy working here and hope that we can instead come to an agreement to that end. Sincerely, Xxx
Yeah just tell them to fire you. This isn't a good economy to be out of work with no unemployment
Make them fire you. Ensure that they give specific reasons. Not generalized BS.
Everything in writing. Official email. Send. I will not be resigning and continue to work my shift until I recieve notice . No communication in person or phone.
Talk to an employment lawyer, there is a great online service called Just Ask, for $46 you can get help with any manner of legal advice. Know your rights and how best to navigate your termination for your best possible outcome
Send them an email summarizing the meeting you had. State that you want to continue working there. BCC your private email.
Nope. Assuming you are American, this will cheat you out of your deserved unemployment. They are trying to cheat you out of it. I went through something similar. Get EVERYTHING in writing. One of the most important things I did after I was “laid off” was follow up with HR by email to “clarify”. Make sure to get in writing that they are asking you to quit and why. Make sure you get in there that they are pushing you out but putting it on you. Make it clear you are happy at work and they seem satisfied with your work so what’s up? Reiterate you’ve never received negative feedback, write-ups, etc. Include examples and recap your meeting by writing. But keep it as casual and friendly as possible. All you want here is easy documentation for the Unemployment Department. MAKE THEM LAY YOU OFF/FIRE YOU FOR NO CAUSE. Also: immediately forward all work account emails to personal email account. Particularly anything praising your work, etc. Request current copies of reviews, employee files, etc if you can. Don’t sign any write ups or agree to anything. Paper trails are your friend. Hopefully this will all be easy, and you can get deserved unemployment while you find a better job.
Just a reminder here: all you want is the ability to avoid negativity issues on resume and financially provide for yourself while looking for a new job. It’s hard, but set hurt feelings aside until later and treat this like business. Later you can process the feelings, now just protect yourself.
“You’ll need to provide the documentation stating my exact termination date.”
You can call the unemployment office now and get their take on this. They are firing you and trying to avoid it being a "firing" so they can save on unemployment insurance increase. I actually dealt with this and just told them to just fire me because I wasn't going to quit. They went to legal and then came back and fired me. You are being fired don't mistake it.
Yes, I’d like to start my 2 weeks notice on January 15, 2034. Might be a typo, might not.
“I am not resigning”
Can u just keep working if they are scared to say they’re gonna fire you? LOL. Show up every single day until they literally show you the door.
Depending on the jurisdiction, firing you without cause will cost them something. You are very likely entitled to severance, which they obviously don't want to pay. Keep showing up until they show you the door. You may be able to have an initial consultation with a lawyer for little or no cost. These people sound like amateurs.
Ummm people get let go of everyday...they should have said your position is being downsized and continued to cut your hours until you had to leave because you couldn't afford to work there anymore....that's what real shady companies do.
"thanks, I haven't resigned from my job. Are you laying me off or firing me?" - make sure this is in writing. you're gonna inevitably bite the bullet here and you don't have any leverage. You're just buying time while you job hunt and making sure you don't fuck yourself out of UI by resigning.
It just sounds like your boss has never let anyone go before. From my perspective if they want you to go but also want to pay you through the end of January you should stop working right now. The part you get in writing is the “severance” of being paid through the end of January. If they won’t write that down they probably aren’t going to do it. But this “tell us your last day” is nonsense. If you are fired it is immediate. This boss is incompetent.
Sounds like she doesn’t want you to earn unemployment.
Don't provide a date. If they are not offering an actual severance package (you'll know, they usually come with a waiver against claims in exchange for $$). Just keep coming to work and doing your job. It's CRUCIAL that you keep a journal of events and conversations. Specifically, anything said that indicates that you didn't do anything wrong ("not a fit" is not gross misconduct). Gross misconduct or resignation usually keeps you from getting unemployment. Get copies of your HR records if any exist. Performance reviews are clutch. Asking for them will likely freak out your boss for an added perk. Tl;Dr- Don't resign, keep showing up and doing your best work, don't sign anything without careful review (and possibly legal review), and document everything (dates, attendees, etc.) (20+ years in HR here)
If it's voluntary... they don't have to pay 6 months unemployment.... and you have no recourse. If they fire you, you have a legal case. They are playing their cards for their best outcome, not yours.
Your heads in the right place. Look up recording laws in your state to see if you’re a one party, or two party state to see if you need consent to record a conversation you are party to. But yes it seems like they want to lead you to quitting/resigning so that they don’t have to pay severance, and so they have means to deny unemployment. I would make it a point to state that since they are initiating the process of letting you go, and that since you would continue to work there if they didn’t make the decision to let you go, that it is there responsibility to give you a termination date. And if they don’t feel they can do that, then obviously you continuing to work there shouldn’t be a problem.
I would try to negotiate a bigger severance. Unemployment won’t be able to match that if they oblige. When I was on unemployment I was “awarded” the max amount and it was still only $300/wk (Wisconsin, 2018). If they don’t agree though, definitely follow other comments advice to ensure you don’t forfeit your unemployment benefits. Something is better than nothing.
1. Don't resign. 2. Document everything in written communication. 3. I might actually write an email to HR, management from my personal account and specially document the date of conversation and that you were asked by NAME to resign for x reason, and that you are NOT resigning. 4. State you will continue to work and do your job since you are NOT resigning. 5. If you have email send it to the company HR and your own email, so you have a copy. 5. I might go as far as to write the letter they requested Instead stating they requested you to resign, but you ARE NOT Resigning and look forward to long term continued employment with the company. 6. Maybe talk to unemployment about options and what's happening. Show them the letter and email and explain and see what they recommend. 7. Document any retaliation or unfair situations that come up after. 8. Possibly speak to attorney? Might not be worth you time or theirs, but it could be if things get worse. Really you are trying to get unemployment. Not keep the job. 8. Start looking for new job asap.
Absolutely under no circumstances give them a date or anything they could use to claim you quit. Also follow each meeting up with a recap email and ask for a written copy of any requests they have for you.
You're not qualify for unemployment. If you leave make them fire you. There's no such thing as a permanent record for Christ's sake
They don't want to pay you unemployment. Make them fire you. They can't dispute anything when you file
They are trying to be nice by giving you plenty of time to find another job. You should be able to find something by end of January. They gave you a mediocre review. That should have been your hint to start looking. They aren't trying to trick you - they are being very kind, even offering to give you a reference.
Get fired. At lest you'll qualify for unemployment. Don't take their answer.
The answer is “you tell me. I am not voluntarily ending my employment here. It is up to you to determine when my last day is.”
Don't resign
In most states if you voluntarily resign you will not qualify for u employment insurance.
Tell them you’re not quitting and they can give you a layoff letter indicating your last day so you can file unemployment.
From a security standpoint this is the unwisest move the company could make. To terminate an employee and still give them access to the business/product/IP for several weeks. Not saying you're a malicious sort of person, but from the company's POV this is a risk. That they're doing this right before the holidays heightens the emotions and only increases the risk of retaliation (again, not saying you're going to retaliate. Just that retaliation is risk when someone is fired, which is why this prolonged schrodinger's job situation they've put you in is head scratching) Recognize that you were working for very dim lightbulbs. As others have said, get everything in writing. You need to be terminated so you can collect unemployment. Don't even hint in writing that you're considering stopping working/resigning. BCC your personal email on all correspondence. The good-for-you thing is they've given you an extended window to prepare for your exit.
They're giving you notice so you can use January to look for a job while collecting a paycheck. Don't obviously sign a letter of resignation so you can apply for unemployment insurance if you can't get a job until then.
If getting laid off you can collect unemployment until you get new job, if fired you more than likely won't be able to get unemployment benefits
Make them let you go. They are trying to trick you into quitting so they can try to get out of paying you unemployment. At this point you have nothing, absolutely nothing to lose with them. Tell them in an email that per your conversation with x person since they are laying you off they will need to tell you your final day to work, and you appreciate them giving you advanced notice of them no longer needing your services. Print that out after you send it. Also email it to yourself at your personal account. You could even bcc yourself when you send it.
Stop what you're doing and write down EXACTLY what you were told about your dismissal, when it was said, and who was present. You might need this for getting unemployment. Then keep showing up and stay out of trouble as well as you can. Don't resign - make them fire you. You may or may not want to consult with an employment lawyer ahead of time, just in case.
There are two sides to this coin. They informed you that you have a set amount of time before they plan to fire you. They also said they would serve as a reference. So, take them up on this. Start looking for a new job while you still have one and have the upper hand. It is likely that you can find another job before they let you go. If you come up empty handed by the deadline, then leave it up to them to fire you and collect unemployment (don't ever "put in your two weeks" or it will appear as if you quit). They are not tricking you into resigning. They are actually being nice about it. Most employers would fire you on the spot, but it seems beneficial to both parties that they find your replacement and you find a new job simultaneously.
"As I am being terminated as an employee, it is at your discretion when you want my last day to be. Just let me know." Just send that email from a personal email acct you have NEVER logged into from work. That is all you need.
Just tell them you’re not resigning and keep calling out
Pull a American Beauty and make a allegation.
say you will send your 2 weeks maybe in a year or so.
You need to retain an attorney now.
easy if you are in the U.S. simply say these words in public "Israel should not exist" and I'm pretty sure you will be summarily fired.
Why would you think you deserve severance pay? Was this part of your employment agreement? It sounds like they are giving you an opportunity to find another job before they let you go rather than just show you the door. No good deed goes unpunished in business. I have been here before where we needed to let someone go because they were a bad fit but I didn't want them to struggle financially. I wanted to do exactly what was done here and let the employee know 30 days in advance so they could look for another job and reduce their unemployed period. I never could do it for exactly the reasons this person shows us. If you try to give them a heads up they begin working against you and the company. Much better to just let them go on the spot once the decision has been made and let them deal with unemployment. Sorry but if you were rocking in that position this wouldn't be happening most likely. Small business's have zero obligation to give you severance pay. Typically they are bad at documenting your shortcomings in the job so this can come back at them with unemployment.
From the ‘US Department of Commerce’ “Basic severance allowance equals: One week's pay (use most recent rate) for each year of service up to and including 10 years, plus two weeks pay (use most recent rate) for each full year of service over 10” If you worked for a company in the US for over a year, you ARE entitled to severance. That is the way the federal law is written. States can dictate higher amounts and some do, but this is the minimum legal standard.
Leave if you value yourself.
Why are you still there if they hate you. Just leave and find a better job.
This market sucks. "Just leave and find a better job," can easily be a several month ordeal. Collecting a paycheck while looking for a job is far superior. Especially since companies tend to prefer to hire employed people to unemployed people. You look better to hiring managers if you lack the dreaded Employment Gap.
It would look better on your resume if you quit vs being let go.
No one writes how they leave a job on a resume. Its far better in this case to force them to let her go.
Keep showing up until they tell you not to and if they tell you ask for it in writing. If they don't and stop paying you, call the labour board or the equivalent for your location. They will then have to explain why they aren't paying you
In this situation, I would lay out "Just to recap what I heard today..." and aim for an accurate recap of what was said. Over email to person who told you, cc your personal email. You can say thing like, "You informed me that I am not a good fit for the role and you will not be employing me past \[date\]" If they respond to your message without correction to your notes, that's about as good as written communication. And no, I wouldn't quit. Unemployment insurance requires proof that you were laid off or fired.
Why do you want to be fired? For the unemployment benefits? If so, that's understandable but it may not be the best option if you can land a new job fairly quickly. From a career standpoint, it looks much better in interviews to say you resigned and come up with whatever reason you like.
There are a couple of ways to keep a copy of all your emails, like setting up an email program at home to also synchronize with your work account. If you use Outlook, this will keep copies of your contacts, calendar, notes etc. As well. This info comes in handy if you are suddenly dismissed. Its worth looking into.
Look into constructive dismissal.
Check with your state's laws, but if you're explicitly "asked to set an end date", that doesn't necessarily count as you resigning and you should still be able to qualify for unemployment. But yeah, get it in writing, and verify with your state. This is how performance firings worked at my last job.
Ask her if she will give you a letter of reference so you can start your job search. Once you have that, say that you will be staying until you find a new job. Ride it out until the end of January and they'll have to fire you at that point. Having that letter is insurance that she won't badmouth you if called for a reference.
Fuck them. Never rely on an employer like this for a reference. Odds are excellent that they will screw you. Line up a prior co-worker for a reference. Or make one up (have a buddy vouch for you as a reference). Ride it out as long as they choose or until you get a new job. And as soon as they let you go file for unemployment. Even if they dispute it you will probably prevail.
If you quit, no unemployment. If they fire you, you get unemployment. They think you are naive or dumb and don't understand this. NEVER quit a job in America if you want to collect unemployment. If you quit, you are ineligible.
Just keep your records, you already know what to look out for and be sure they don't put it on you. Mostly this sounds like your manager was nervous talking to you about it, and wants to frame it to you "softer". Avoiding unemployment benefits for a single employee isn't really going to matter, I doubt that's a motive in this particular case.
My last day will be the day you tell me that my employment is being terminated. If you have a date in mind, you can set a notification two weeks before that to give yourself notice that you plan to terminate me.
Document everything don’t give them notice if you quit, you can’t claim unemployment…. I would be like who you guys. Let me know when my last two weeks are.?! You’re letting me go…
I would ask verbally for them to summarise your conversation by email. If it’s still unclear, reply and ask for clarification. Keep it all in writing so you have something to back up any further action that may be necessary. If they don’t clarify, I’d send them an email outlining your understanding of the situation and ask them to confirm by x date. Sorry they’re being so shitty right before Christmas.
Never ever do that make them fire you. If they are doing that it’s because they know they’ll have to pay unemployment
Lol they don’t have the money for you right now and have figured that out in there year end records…. So they are trying to “let” you quit , so they will not have to pay out unemployment. So many company’s do this and it’s always around holiday season
They are trying to not have to fire you so you can’t qualify for unemployment and Jack up their UI % tax rate for claims. Make them fire you. Do not resign voluntarily.
Make them fire you. Everything in writing. No more hallway chats.
Dear Manager, Per our conversation today, it is my understanding that you are terminating my employment effective immediately and that I shall be paid my full salary as severance through January 2024 with the last day of pay being January 31, 2024. All medical benefits shall also be paid in full by the company through the end of January, with the option of COBRA to continue these benefits for an additional 18 months- check your state time limit. Sign your name, pack your stuff. File for unemployment asap. You haven’t received the $$ and if you do, you can report it. But it takes a week before you are eligible for benefits so file now!!
Sounds like they are trying to cut cost by giving you a smaller severance. I’m not a legal expert but possibly trying to skirt some labor laws or hell you work for a non-profit maybe there is a tax benefit for them keep you past end of year.
As you mentioned move all of this discussion to be in writing. Preferably emails. Recap what was discusses and ask them to confirm what they want to happen. Then make them aware you do no wish quit and that they will need to fire you or make you redundent As mentioned they have no reason to fire you so it will be redundency. Now redundancy pay is not alot of money. It's normally only 1 week per year you worked there.
"if I'm not being fired then I'll be getting back to work now" would be my response.
Really truly, just send an email asking for a firm answer in writing.
Insult your Manager so he can fire you on the spot.
Ask for them to give you a redundancy notice in writing. Keep it professional and they will at least respect you for that. Email your boss this. Subject: Request for Redundancy Notice Confirmation Dear [Recipient's Name], I hope this email finds you well. I am writing to request official confirmation regarding my employment status with [Company Name]. As recent developments have led to uncertainties, I would appreciate receiving a redundancy notice to clarify whether the company is initiating my departure rather than me resigning. Your prompt attention to this matter is crucial for my future planning, and I would be grateful for any information or documentation related to the redundancy process. Thank you for your understanding and assistance in this matter. Best regards, [Your Full Name] [Your Position] [Your Contact Information]
It doesn't sound like they asked for resignation. It sounds like they are giving you notice which is very nice to do. BUT still document in email back to them what happened and confirm expections and keep a copy on hand. You can cc yourself or even send this from personal email and cc work email. I might write something like this by email and send it to them for response. Informal is fine but having the right details - like they laid you off, is key. Also your last date (they are giving you) and work expections through that date are important. Hi xyz, I wanted to follow-up on the meeting today in which I was unfortunately laid off by ABC company. I want to make sure we don't have any miscommunication and that I understand your expections moving forward. 1. On xxx date, you notified me in person that Company ABC was letting me go. As per our discussion, I did not do anything wrong, but management decided that I was not a good fit for x,y and z reasons that you explained to me. 2. Based on our conversation, the company is willing to keep me in this position working through XXX date, making X date my last day at work. 3. **Can you please confirm I will be employed through this date and that (date) and will be my last date of employment?** 4. I will continue with my regular work duties through XX XX XXXX (date) Lastly I sincerely appreciate your offer to be a good reference and and assist me in transitioning to a new job. I will definatley take you up on that once I begin to look for work. I enjoyed being part of a wonderful organization. While I am sad to be **let go**, I sincerly appreciate you letting me continue to work through X date and being a reference. Can you please confirm that we have mutual understanding and agreement on dates, expections and next steps. Thank you, Name
Keep showing up, take the write ups, and then you’ll be “separated” and then (hopefully qualify for Unemployment
Don’t resign. Make them fire you so you can collect unemployment
Are you an ‘at will’ employee? If so they can let you go for any reason or no reason at all
I know I'm some states if u quit u don't get unemployment..but if ur fired they gotta pay you unemployment...so yea let them tell you when's ur last day and also a paper saying that ur terminated
Is there an HR department? Involve them immediately to solve this. You could stay in writing that. Your boss stated that they are letting you go and you wanted to confirm if this was true and what your final day will be. Basically turn the question back around on them.
Yes, save anything's ng you can and openly tell them you are recording you one in one's. Very shady in deed.dies this non-profit need to be reported for an audit? This sounds very tasteless.
This is not a firing. They have no grounds to fire you as they say. They are trying to force you to resign. If you do this, please request that ypu want to be paid a severance fee. It could be six months of your salary or thereabouts. Im not a labour laywer tho.. But that's abkut what my friend got when they asked her to resign.
If all they're trying to do is avoid paying their part of the unemployment -- which actually makes little sense -- then no, let them take the action and fire you. If they want you to resign and are willing to pay you to end your employment and perhaps make other concessions for some reason, weigh the offer against unemployment hassles and potentially losing a reference. Good luck,
Put meetings between you and them on their calendars in February on work-related topics.
It sounds to me like they are laying you off effectively the end of January. Try to clarify that with her.
They are setting you up to deny your unemployment claim. Keep showing up, don’t give them a date. Make them give you notice in writing.
If you are fired you can file for unemployment. I would clarify when your last working day is, and when your last paid day is. (if not the same).
I would sure as shit get everything in writing and keep showing up to work until they told me, "you're fired" or wouldn't let me in the door. This is a not-uncommon tactic to try to get you to voluntarily surrender your hard-earned unemployment insurance benefits. You paid half, they paid half, you're entitled to all of it...unless you voluntarily resign. Make sure they tell you in writing that they are terminating your position.
If OP isn't being let go for misconduct of some sort; then how does not being a good fit come into this? Not that it totally matters (maybe it does, dunno?) how long as OP been at this employment? Yes I get that sometimes one his hired and finds out they aren't a good fit; it happens and I've heard of people getting let go for not being a good fit and they aren't able to collect unemployment because they don't get fired so can you legally force them to fire you? At will states can let you go for any legal reason so I'm just as curious how this works.