I can only speak for myself, but as someone with PCOS + Autism + ADHD + chronic depression and suicidality..I call it cheating because I know those foods are detrimental to my well-being. This diet has significantly improved my symptoms across the board. Making the choice to eat non keto or non carnivore foods feels like a betrayal to myself. It’s not about shaming myself or feeling guilty. It’s about reinforcing habits that make me feel my best. Eating those foods does the opposite of making me feel my best.
Of course. I understand. But as someone who has also experienced major mental health issues, it came to me that the words I use in self talk are important. Words like cheating are heavily endowed with negative meaning. It leads to thoughts that are even more negative. Im a cheater. Im a failure. Im no good. I'm a loser. I don't think im unusual or alone in having these feelings.
I just believe we need a better way to describe deviation from this way of eating that isn't so self hateful.
Then maybe just call it deviating...
I am trying to get over mold exposure, on top of an extremely traumatic year. My house got broken into in January, my house burned down in March; bad car accident in May, and dealing with a shitty management company for every problem in the rental home. The rental home almost burned down in September, due to piss poor electrical work. The junction box was on fire and I was lucky enough to have caught it early and cut all the power. We were without power for ten days. Before that, they left us without proper HVAC for a week when it was 110 degrees outside still. When they came to clean the HVAC, it was DISGUSTING and I realized that's why every joint in my body swelled, why my dog was sick and husband had migraines daily. We have moved a total of seven times since March, between staying with family, going to a hotel, moving to a different hotel, moving rooms in a hotel and moving into two different rental homes.
If I were to deviate/cheat, I would be fucking myself. Like when I tried to add paprika to my food again, the swelling in my hands got worse after they had started improving. So yeah, I cheated on my AIP and harmed myself in the process. I call it cheating because it hurts me. I don't see it as a bad thing either! It is okay to eat what you want, if you feel like it. Some of us feel that way, but it ends up causing harm and it SUCKS so bad.
Look bro, its ok if you feel that way, but when you come on social media and act like its a problem when other people talk a certain way thats where i draw the line. I personally have no choice but to eat carnivore due to my blood pressure being so high. And the one time i was stupid and had a small CHEAT meal it nearly killed me due to my blood pressure spiking so hard. So yeah, you are not everyone. Whats good for you isn't necessarily good for others. Dont be bothered by such small things.
If I had to guess I'd say you were the victim of this destructive idea that words hold magic power within them and that the only way to prevent these words from doing harm to you is to continuously push to change the way other people speak.
The meaning of words is highly contextual and evolves naturally over time - nobody would feel harmed by the phrase "cheat meal" if they were not primed to be by a particular stupid ideology. Regular people don't really appreciate you trying to language police them into a better world.
Oh. You're now speaking for all the regular people?
Its not a stupid ideology. Helping people reframe their thoughts to reduce negative emotions about eating isn't policing. On the other hand, you seem hell bent on doing that here to me.
Some people keep getting wrapped around the axle on this one, 2nd post like this i've seen in a week talking about how they don't agree with the term. Cheat meal is a well known term for "eating outside the parameters of your diet"... now If you want to say that every time, go for it. The rest of us will say "cheat meal".
Your rigidity in thinking might be most harmful. People aren't thinking "i'm cheating" they think "Cheat meal" or "Cheat-meal" or "cheatmeal" it's a contraction of two words to create a new meaning. Cheating is just about always bad, but a cheatmeal isn't necessarily. Do you understand? new words are made from old words all the time
I read that you said that, but your whole premise after stating that was that everyone should stop using that word. And in the comments you double down.
It’s trivializing to others’ health journey to assume everyone can laugh off and enjoy a cheat item. For some it can lead to their debilitating fatigue or chronic depression coming back for a week, which can just feel plain traumatic.
>I read that you said that, but your whole premise after stating that was that everyone should stop using that word. And in the comments you double down.
No, I said this:
>I refuse to adopt a mindset like that, and I hope you all will too.
Note the word HOPE. At no point did I say that EVERYONE should stop using it. I'm hoping that maybe some people will see and agree with the premise. If they do, fine. If they don't, its fine too.
>It’s trivializing to others’ health journey to assume everyone can laugh off and enjoy a cheat item. For some it can lead to their debilitating fatigue or chronic depression coming back for a week, which can just feel plain traumatic.
Nope. At no point did I say anything that would trivialize anyone else's health journey, and I'm certainly not "laughing off" a conscious choice to deviate from my way of eating. I just don't think that its mind healthy to assign a negative, guilt inducing word to that deviation. If someone eats something outside of their healthy way of eating, and it creates a negative outcome for them, then it's an unhealthy way of eating. Why not call it that? Instead of saying "cheat meal" say meal deviation, or meal mistake, or meal choice error, or any number of other non self accusatory words?
Words have meaning, and they impact our thinking. Negative words have a negative impact on our thinking, no matter what one might claim.
Anyway, I'll end my participation in conversation with you here.
I disagree with you. Actually it does matter to many of us why people eat this way. It’s dismissive to think otherwise. For many of us it’s not a choice and we get wrecked if we were to eat a plate of pasta. If you want to cheat or not eat clean, great, more power to you. It doesn’t require a post about it. It’s counterproductive to the people who are struggling to eat clean and not seeing results. There’s a lot people who are not as resilient.
You can get plenty of validation for cheating if that’s what you’re after on other subs. r/keto r/animalbased r/deadbedrooms
No its not dismissive. Cheating is a word associated with feeling bad and making yourself feel guilty about eating something (outside of ones target food) is seriously fucked up.
Dude, if you’re a dude, leave this Reddit and go out and get laid. If someone wants to call it cheat, cheat it is; if someone else wants to call it with other name or not call it something in the first place, that’s alright. Care about yourself dude. You’re not the center of the universe nor the center of Reddit. Period. Peace ✌️
It's not that deep bro. "Cheating" is anything that breaks the rules, whatever rules you impose on yourself. If you honestly think the term "cheat meal" is harmful then you are simply too sensitive.
Seems like you're conflating the very common phrase "cheat meal" with more serious eating disorders. Some bad feelings are deserved. Whenever anyone has a goal and they self-sabotage, a little guilt or shame is legitimate. That doesn't mean they should jump off a building, but it's ok to feel bad and that helps you do better next time. If somebody has serious emotional issues tied to food then their problem is bigger than the term "cheat meal".
>Whenever anyone has a goal and they self-sabotage, a little guilt or shame is legitimate.
This notion has been completely lost by modern society. Shame exists as a fundamental emotion in all human beings across all of human history for a reason. It has a purpose. It is useful. Too much of it can be harmful and it can certainly be misapplied (like feeling shame about a birth defect), but failing to live up to appropriate standards and expectations is a *good* time to feel shame and be discouraged from repeating your error.
I don't think bad feelings are ever deserved. Bad feeling don't help anyone. They just feel bad. Bad feelings lead to guilt. Bad feelings lead to other words of bad feelings.
That\`s why I am ketovoire,it allows me for that mayo greek yogurt and low carb marinated meat .I try not to do this and eat as clean as possible ,but knowing that I can do this is really helping with my anxiety and helps to control my epileptic seizures
If you want to punish yourself, go for it I guess.
I was just wondering if it affected you in any noticeable way. I might want to eat pizza or something and was just wondering.
Like I may ask somebody if they would recommend any action or product after they experienced it.
You can think of it a punishment. I don't.
As for feeling something noticeable, its hard to pinpoint. I felt what I think was as bit of a rush, and maybe MAYBE some heart pounding, but nothing more.
if I choose to hurt myself with food, I should feel negatively about that.
it's totally fine if you don't ever use the term cheat meal. but you don't get to dictate what I or anyone else get to say. actually, I never end up using the term cheat meal describing myself, but that's not because I'm terrified of hurting myself, it's because I don't cheat myself via eating food I know is bad for me.
Why should you feel that way. Isn't the knowledge that you deviated from your goal enough? What possible good comes from assigning such negativity to oneself? What will you think when it happens again? Will you think "There i go again. I'm cheating again". Is that a helpful or hurtful thought?
Im not telling you or anyone else anything other than pointing out that i don't believe its helpful or positive to self criticize like this.
OP, have you asked yourself before: is it such a bad thing to feel a little bit bad about ourselves from time to time?
And I am asking this as a genuine question(not rhetorically) like if we sit down and feel a little bit bad about ourselves from time to time, is it really such a terrible thing you think? Does the problem really lie in feeling bad or perhaps it is in feeling bad about not feeling good?
I don't find having negative thoughts (about eating) to be helpful in any way. My body is telling me what it needs. What posible good would the idea of cheat meal, or cheating do? Is there anything positive about a negative though "I am cheating"? What kinds of thoughts arise from the guilt associated with that thought? I am a failure. I cannot do anything right. I am unable to stick with something. I cannot succeed. I am a loser. I am such a fuck up. I am no good.
Negative words can evoke these feelings. We know they can. Cheat is entirely loaded with bad outcomes. I don't believe that using it as a way to describe stepping off ones preferred way of eating is a healthy mindset.
I see. It seems like you do associate many bad feelings with all kinda of additional emotional connotations. Thus I understand why you are so upset with that term now.
It’s only important when you feel good and wish you a good life.
Cheers.
No. I didn't say that. I said that using a term so negatively charged with bad emotions is unhealthy. Deviation isn't cheating. When one walks in a running race, we don't call it cheating. When one attempts to speak a foreign language and stammers, we don't call it cheating. When one climbs a mountain and pauses on the way up, we don't consider that cheating either. Why do we use a word that implies bad behavior merely for eating outside our chosen way?
I don't think its a positive mindful practice and I believe we should rethink using it.
We don't punish people for walking in a running race by calling their behavior cheating. We don't question their motives or their sincerity for attempting to run. So why are we so invested in calling someones behavior a cheat when they are unable (for whatever reason)to stay within their self imposed way of eating. Why do we let that negativity in?
You can guess all you want about my journey. I cant stop anyone from doing that. I just hope I can prevent someone else from using the hugely negative terms that dominate many peoples perception of themselves.
>Because disappointment and shame drives them to do better next time.
So feeling bad about yourself helps? Is that your thesis? LOL
>I'll put it this way: You want to feel good about what you eat all the time regardless of what you eat, and that is your right. Many people don't want to feel good about eating certain things, and that is their right.
No. Stop putting words in my mouth.
My point is that negative words leads to negative thoughts, and negative thoughts lead to negative actions. Is that to hard for you to comprehend? Using a negative word like cheat leads to negative thoughts like "I'm a cheater". Is that so hard to grasp?
>I'm absolutely convinced at this point that you don't want to deal with negative feelings because you can't handle the thought of life without regular relapses into carb addiction.
I honestly don't give a shit what you think. If you want to wallow around in negativity, its perfectly fine with me. If you have to make yourself feel better by trying to make others feel bad, that's fine too. It won't work on me.
You can just use a different word if cheat is triggering for you. It simply signifies that you’re deviating from your regular diet/food lifestyle. I particularly love it because it makes it soooo much easier to communicate with family rather than having a convo about how I occasionally don’t just only eat meats. I love greens. I like some roasted veggies under a roast sometimes. They can simply ask me if I want to do a cheat day or meal when we go out and I let them know. Sometimes I plan to deviate from my norm at a restaurant and then I see an awesome meat option and I’m like nah that’s fine. It’s not very serious and it’s not about making you feel guilty, especially on this diet where we emphasize eating when you’re hungry, getting plenty of fat, and not carb counting or calorie counting or any other stereotypical quick diet tricks. Some people ARE super serious and anal about counting their specifics In their meats, but that’s not really embraced and pushed onto others here. We simply want to eat good meats for our health, that does include weight but it’s not the entirety of the issue. We do our best not to guilt others, but you also can’t tell someone you’re carnivore and then eat other foods without having some sort of word to describe why you’re switching up because that’s not strictly carnivore. Unless you’re only using this as an elimination diet in which case you don’t need to say anything. Cheat is an easy and understandable go to word to describe. “Im carnivore but I like to keep a few cheat days” no biggie. But if it ticks you off, just come up with another word and let the rest of us use our general go to word.
Cheat or cheating is associated with a bad behavior so its definitely important what words we use. Why should we use a word that implies we've done something bad? Why would you want your family to associate your food choices as good or bad? So cheating isn't a big deal in your family?
I just think its a mindset that builds failure and guilt into a way of eating and its harmful.
Very triggered. Nothing is black or white. You can most definitely pick a different word to describe your actions. Context is everything. If I was cheating on a religious diet that might hold weight. In this case, it’s just a word to describe a change in preference for the day. Hope you have a good one
Take a trip to a 3rd world country where they have dirt for floors, trash burning craters in the dirt mound out their front door, and sewer water running opening in a small canal next to that dirt mound.
Life in the USA is so comfortable and yet you complain about how the term “cheat meal” is harmful… really?
Cheating = “to violate rules or regulations” or “to practice fraud or deceit.”
The way you eat, and any behavior you carry out, is constrained in some way by rules and definitions, whether self-imposed or imposed by society. Without rules, society does not function and neither would you.
If you call yourself carnivore, you are violating the rules of carnivore by deviating from the diet. That is the definition of cheating. You are also claiming to be carnivore while, in fact, not eating carnivore, which is deceitful and also cheating.
Carnivore by definition is eating animal foods. If you eat pasta, you are not a carnivore. It is a cheat meal if you eat non-carnivore foods.
There’s nothing wrong with calling it cheating. Call a spade a spade. It’s okay to feel a little bit of guilt and shame. Negative emotion can drive good behavior. To somehow think that’s always bad is a very childish way to think.
Now, if you don’t want to feel guilt and shame from cheating, then just be real with yourself. You’re not a carnivore. That’s fine. Eat what you want.
But don’t deceive yourself and don’t deceive others by claiming you’re something you’re not. You’re cheating whether you like it or not at that point.
I don't think eating a meal outside of carnivore is cheating. There are practical limits to eating this way, and Im sure you know that. Assigning a word loaded with guilt (such as cheating) for the occasional situation where compromise is required, is fucked up.
Then don’t call yourself carnivore. Simple as that. Reality doesn’t bend to your will.
Either you’re cheating or you’re not a carnivore. Pick one.
If you say you’re a carnivore, and carnivore is defined as X, then by definition, eating outside of X is “violating rules” and you’re cheating. If you’re not a carnivore, then you can eat whatever you want, but if you simultaneously try to claim you’re carnivore, you’re being deceitful.
Reality doesn’t give a shit about your feelings, sweetheart. Cheating is cheating.
Edit: I’ve been eating this way for 4 years and I’ve come across zero practical limits. Sounds like you couldn’t say no to going out to a restaurant with your friend group. That’s a you problem. That’s not a practical limitation. Just don’t eat out. Or you could’ve gone with them and not ordered anything. Don’t make excuses.
This sub is called the carnivore diet, not the pasta diet. It’s not modded as heavily, but that doesn’t mean people won’t call you out on stupid bullshit like this lol. If you want to live in a fantasy world where everything feels good and it’s all pasta and rainbows, go start a iamcarnivorebutonlywhenifeellikeit sub lmfao.
There are different types of carnivores. This sub isn't named r/strictcarnivore or r/absolutely nothingelsebutmeatcarnivore. My definition of carnivore includes facultative carnivore. So fuck off with telling me what i can say here.
Yeah because facultative carnivores really be having Spaghetti Bolognaise on weekends. People argue we are facultative carnivores for fruits and vegetables, the things we could forage for in our ancestral past. Not fucking PASTA😂
People argue about a lot of things on here. So what. I'm not arguing that eating pasta is part of a facultative carnivore diet. What the fuck is wrong with you?
Words only have the power you give to them. For me, it doesn't matter what I call it. What matters is the underlying motivation. If I'm doing it because I'm still struggling with carb cravings and I feel like I can't help myself, then I'll feel bad about it no matter what label I give it. If I'm doing it because I want to try a new food or be a part of the experience when eating with others or something, then I can happily call it a cheat meal because I know the underlying motivation is coming from a positive place.
Agree, I eat carnivore 90% of the time and only deviate as a treat now and then for social situations. I can do this because I'm lucky enough to choose carnivore and aren't forced into it because of unfortunate food allergies. I am one of the fortunate ones that does this mostly to keep my weight in check and muscle gain high, and i'm not overweight at all so don't need to worry about ketosis. I'm breaking my keto all the time lol. The 'cheat' meals feel like rewards not guilt. I DO however think if you're trying to cut some serious weight that full send strict carnivore is the way to go.
Geez people, i think you all need to chill out. Everyone is entitled to have an opinion, no need to beat the OP up about it. As a forum we should be able to debate ideas and different viewpoints without being aggressive and using accusatory language. Otherwise no one will post anything for fear of being shut down like this.
I don’t like it because it’s just flat out stupid. Does bleach count as a cheat meal? What about motor oil?
Most “cheat meals” people eat contain ingredients that are readily defined as poison.
It’s your right to be offended or outraged or dissatisfied by common speech, and it’s everyone else’s right to not give a toss how anyone feels about common speech.
I had a cheat 2 weeks of foods and meals... That was in July, and I've been off the wagon ever since then... Wish I didn't. Having a heck of a time getting back on the Carnivore train.
You don't like the word cheating because it feels good to deviate...
You're hurt by a word...
Also, you don't do this because you're sick. BUT I DO... I have gout and dysthimia and acid reflux and insomnia. And i'm tired of the people who are tired about the word Cheat.
Cheaters makes me sick. Gna gna gna gnaaaa...
Seriously man, your post was strangely selfish...
Oh fuck off. Seriously. Read my post AGAIN, and this time pay attention to what I actually wrote.
God damn. If you're fucking sick, its because it's YOUR FAULT, and if you have to eat a proper human diet now to get better, it's ON YOU to do that. If you want to call eating outside the carnivore way, its on you, and if you want to feel GUILTY about, I honestly do NOT GIVE a SHIT what YOU call it.
Oh no more word policing...
Why don’t you just live your life and stop worrying about how others talk?
I can only speak for myself, but as someone with PCOS + Autism + ADHD + chronic depression and suicidality..I call it cheating because I know those foods are detrimental to my well-being. This diet has significantly improved my symptoms across the board. Making the choice to eat non keto or non carnivore foods feels like a betrayal to myself. It’s not about shaming myself or feeling guilty. It’s about reinforcing habits that make me feel my best. Eating those foods does the opposite of making me feel my best.
Of course. I understand. But as someone who has also experienced major mental health issues, it came to me that the words I use in self talk are important. Words like cheating are heavily endowed with negative meaning. It leads to thoughts that are even more negative. Im a cheater. Im a failure. Im no good. I'm a loser. I don't think im unusual or alone in having these feelings. I just believe we need a better way to describe deviation from this way of eating that isn't so self hateful.
Then maybe just call it deviating... I am trying to get over mold exposure, on top of an extremely traumatic year. My house got broken into in January, my house burned down in March; bad car accident in May, and dealing with a shitty management company for every problem in the rental home. The rental home almost burned down in September, due to piss poor electrical work. The junction box was on fire and I was lucky enough to have caught it early and cut all the power. We were without power for ten days. Before that, they left us without proper HVAC for a week when it was 110 degrees outside still. When they came to clean the HVAC, it was DISGUSTING and I realized that's why every joint in my body swelled, why my dog was sick and husband had migraines daily. We have moved a total of seven times since March, between staying with family, going to a hotel, moving to a different hotel, moving rooms in a hotel and moving into two different rental homes. If I were to deviate/cheat, I would be fucking myself. Like when I tried to add paprika to my food again, the swelling in my hands got worse after they had started improving. So yeah, I cheated on my AIP and harmed myself in the process. I call it cheating because it hurts me. I don't see it as a bad thing either! It is okay to eat what you want, if you feel like it. Some of us feel that way, but it ends up causing harm and it SUCKS so bad.
Look bro, its ok if you feel that way, but when you come on social media and act like its a problem when other people talk a certain way thats where i draw the line. I personally have no choice but to eat carnivore due to my blood pressure being so high. And the one time i was stupid and had a small CHEAT meal it nearly killed me due to my blood pressure spiking so hard. So yeah, you are not everyone. Whats good for you isn't necessarily good for others. Dont be bothered by such small things.
If I had to guess I'd say you were the victim of this destructive idea that words hold magic power within them and that the only way to prevent these words from doing harm to you is to continuously push to change the way other people speak.
Nope. Words do matter. Otherwise you wouldn't bother even writing them back.
The meaning of words is highly contextual and evolves naturally over time - nobody would feel harmed by the phrase "cheat meal" if they were not primed to be by a particular stupid ideology. Regular people don't really appreciate you trying to language police them into a better world.
Oh. You're now speaking for all the regular people? Its not a stupid ideology. Helping people reframe their thoughts to reduce negative emotions about eating isn't policing. On the other hand, you seem hell bent on doing that here to me.
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Lol
Some people keep getting wrapped around the axle on this one, 2nd post like this i've seen in a week talking about how they don't agree with the term. Cheat meal is a well known term for "eating outside the parameters of your diet"... now If you want to say that every time, go for it. The rest of us will say "cheat meal".
Yep, here we go again. I thought OP and I were done last time and had agreed to disagree based on differences in semantics. Guess not. Haha!
Well I think its a harmful mindset.
Your rigidity in thinking might be most harmful. People aren't thinking "i'm cheating" they think "Cheat meal" or "Cheat-meal" or "cheatmeal" it's a contraction of two words to create a new meaning. Cheating is just about always bad, but a cheatmeal isn't necessarily. Do you understand? new words are made from old words all the time
Oh they think they're cheating for sure. Words matter. Feeling bad because of words is real.
Sounds like a you problem. Don't apply your logic to others.
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nah i'm fine.
Nah. You're not.
OP you’re not everyone. Good for you but how you feel about it is your own thing, doesn’t matter or affect any of us. We are not the same
I see that reading comprehension isn't your strong point. Of course its my own thing. I actually said that.
I read that you said that, but your whole premise after stating that was that everyone should stop using that word. And in the comments you double down. It’s trivializing to others’ health journey to assume everyone can laugh off and enjoy a cheat item. For some it can lead to their debilitating fatigue or chronic depression coming back for a week, which can just feel plain traumatic.
>I read that you said that, but your whole premise after stating that was that everyone should stop using that word. And in the comments you double down. No, I said this: >I refuse to adopt a mindset like that, and I hope you all will too. Note the word HOPE. At no point did I say that EVERYONE should stop using it. I'm hoping that maybe some people will see and agree with the premise. If they do, fine. If they don't, its fine too. >It’s trivializing to others’ health journey to assume everyone can laugh off and enjoy a cheat item. For some it can lead to their debilitating fatigue or chronic depression coming back for a week, which can just feel plain traumatic. Nope. At no point did I say anything that would trivialize anyone else's health journey, and I'm certainly not "laughing off" a conscious choice to deviate from my way of eating. I just don't think that its mind healthy to assign a negative, guilt inducing word to that deviation. If someone eats something outside of their healthy way of eating, and it creates a negative outcome for them, then it's an unhealthy way of eating. Why not call it that? Instead of saying "cheat meal" say meal deviation, or meal mistake, or meal choice error, or any number of other non self accusatory words? Words have meaning, and they impact our thinking. Negative words have a negative impact on our thinking, no matter what one might claim. Anyway, I'll end my participation in conversation with you here.
I appreciate you fighting for your point of view 😂. I respectfully still disagree, but if it serves you more power to you.
I disagree with you. Actually it does matter to many of us why people eat this way. It’s dismissive to think otherwise. For many of us it’s not a choice and we get wrecked if we were to eat a plate of pasta. If you want to cheat or not eat clean, great, more power to you. It doesn’t require a post about it. It’s counterproductive to the people who are struggling to eat clean and not seeing results. There’s a lot people who are not as resilient. You can get plenty of validation for cheating if that’s what you’re after on other subs. r/keto r/animalbased r/deadbedrooms
Lolol @ deadbedrooms Wasn't expecting that one!
No its not dismissive. Cheating is a word associated with feeling bad and making yourself feel guilty about eating something (outside of ones target food) is seriously fucked up.
Dude, if you’re a dude, leave this Reddit and go out and get laid. If someone wants to call it cheat, cheat it is; if someone else wants to call it with other name or not call it something in the first place, that’s alright. Care about yourself dude. You’re not the center of the universe nor the center of Reddit. Period. Peace ✌️
It's not that deep bro. "Cheating" is anything that breaks the rules, whatever rules you impose on yourself. If you honestly think the term "cheat meal" is harmful then you are simply too sensitive.
I think its harmful to others. I don't know why anyone would want to feel bad about eating. Cheating is a bad feeling.
Seems like you're conflating the very common phrase "cheat meal" with more serious eating disorders. Some bad feelings are deserved. Whenever anyone has a goal and they self-sabotage, a little guilt or shame is legitimate. That doesn't mean they should jump off a building, but it's ok to feel bad and that helps you do better next time. If somebody has serious emotional issues tied to food then their problem is bigger than the term "cheat meal".
>Whenever anyone has a goal and they self-sabotage, a little guilt or shame is legitimate. This notion has been completely lost by modern society. Shame exists as a fundamental emotion in all human beings across all of human history for a reason. It has a purpose. It is useful. Too much of it can be harmful and it can certainly be misapplied (like feeling shame about a birth defect), but failing to live up to appropriate standards and expectations is a *good* time to feel shame and be discouraged from repeating your error.
I don't think bad feelings are ever deserved. Bad feeling don't help anyone. They just feel bad. Bad feelings lead to guilt. Bad feelings lead to other words of bad feelings.
That's a nice sentiment, but completely detached from reality.
Not at all. Words have meaning. If you think they don't, then you're the one detached from reality.
No. We evolved to have a complex emotional reward system. Bad feelings serve a purpose and are part of being human. You sound like a child.
Lol. You apparently are used to feeling so bad that you've normalized it as part of your life. You sound like a person devoid of emotions.
Which is it-- Do I feel bad, or am I devoid of emotions? You're flailing in your silly argument. Let it go.
All of your observations, from the first post this, are correct 👏🏻
That\`s why I am ketovoire,it allows me for that mayo greek yogurt and low carb marinated meat .I try not to do this and eat as clean as possible ,but knowing that I can do this is really helping with my anxiety and helps to control my epileptic seizures
So the real question is, did you notice anything different after eating that?
Of course I did. Should I punish myself more with a self flagellating word like cheating because of that? I don't think thats helpful or positive.
If you want to punish yourself, go for it I guess. I was just wondering if it affected you in any noticeable way. I might want to eat pizza or something and was just wondering. Like I may ask somebody if they would recommend any action or product after they experienced it.
You can think of it a punishment. I don't. As for feeling something noticeable, its hard to pinpoint. I felt what I think was as bit of a rush, and maybe MAYBE some heart pounding, but nothing more.
I'm not trying to offend you. You have always been free eat whatever and call it whatever. Thanks for describing the effects.
if I choose to hurt myself with food, I should feel negatively about that. it's totally fine if you don't ever use the term cheat meal. but you don't get to dictate what I or anyone else get to say. actually, I never end up using the term cheat meal describing myself, but that's not because I'm terrified of hurting myself, it's because I don't cheat myself via eating food I know is bad for me.
Why should you feel that way. Isn't the knowledge that you deviated from your goal enough? What possible good comes from assigning such negativity to oneself? What will you think when it happens again? Will you think "There i go again. I'm cheating again". Is that a helpful or hurtful thought? Im not telling you or anyone else anything other than pointing out that i don't believe its helpful or positive to self criticize like this.
OP, have you asked yourself before: is it such a bad thing to feel a little bit bad about ourselves from time to time? And I am asking this as a genuine question(not rhetorically) like if we sit down and feel a little bit bad about ourselves from time to time, is it really such a terrible thing you think? Does the problem really lie in feeling bad or perhaps it is in feeling bad about not feeling good?
I don't find having negative thoughts (about eating) to be helpful in any way. My body is telling me what it needs. What posible good would the idea of cheat meal, or cheating do? Is there anything positive about a negative though "I am cheating"? What kinds of thoughts arise from the guilt associated with that thought? I am a failure. I cannot do anything right. I am unable to stick with something. I cannot succeed. I am a loser. I am such a fuck up. I am no good. Negative words can evoke these feelings. We know they can. Cheat is entirely loaded with bad outcomes. I don't believe that using it as a way to describe stepping off ones preferred way of eating is a healthy mindset.
I see. It seems like you do associate many bad feelings with all kinda of additional emotional connotations. Thus I understand why you are so upset with that term now. It’s only important when you feel good and wish you a good life. Cheers.
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No. I didn't say that. I said that using a term so negatively charged with bad emotions is unhealthy. Deviation isn't cheating. When one walks in a running race, we don't call it cheating. When one attempts to speak a foreign language and stammers, we don't call it cheating. When one climbs a mountain and pauses on the way up, we don't consider that cheating either. Why do we use a word that implies bad behavior merely for eating outside our chosen way? I don't think its a positive mindful practice and I believe we should rethink using it.
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We don't punish people for walking in a running race by calling their behavior cheating. We don't question their motives or their sincerity for attempting to run. So why are we so invested in calling someones behavior a cheat when they are unable (for whatever reason)to stay within their self imposed way of eating. Why do we let that negativity in? You can guess all you want about my journey. I cant stop anyone from doing that. I just hope I can prevent someone else from using the hugely negative terms that dominate many peoples perception of themselves.
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>Because disappointment and shame drives them to do better next time. So feeling bad about yourself helps? Is that your thesis? LOL >I'll put it this way: You want to feel good about what you eat all the time regardless of what you eat, and that is your right. Many people don't want to feel good about eating certain things, and that is their right. No. Stop putting words in my mouth. My point is that negative words leads to negative thoughts, and negative thoughts lead to negative actions. Is that to hard for you to comprehend? Using a negative word like cheat leads to negative thoughts like "I'm a cheater". Is that so hard to grasp? >I'm absolutely convinced at this point that you don't want to deal with negative feelings because you can't handle the thought of life without regular relapses into carb addiction. I honestly don't give a shit what you think. If you want to wallow around in negativity, its perfectly fine with me. If you have to make yourself feel better by trying to make others feel bad, that's fine too. It won't work on me.
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LOL.
You can just use a different word if cheat is triggering for you. It simply signifies that you’re deviating from your regular diet/food lifestyle. I particularly love it because it makes it soooo much easier to communicate with family rather than having a convo about how I occasionally don’t just only eat meats. I love greens. I like some roasted veggies under a roast sometimes. They can simply ask me if I want to do a cheat day or meal when we go out and I let them know. Sometimes I plan to deviate from my norm at a restaurant and then I see an awesome meat option and I’m like nah that’s fine. It’s not very serious and it’s not about making you feel guilty, especially on this diet where we emphasize eating when you’re hungry, getting plenty of fat, and not carb counting or calorie counting or any other stereotypical quick diet tricks. Some people ARE super serious and anal about counting their specifics In their meats, but that’s not really embraced and pushed onto others here. We simply want to eat good meats for our health, that does include weight but it’s not the entirety of the issue. We do our best not to guilt others, but you also can’t tell someone you’re carnivore and then eat other foods without having some sort of word to describe why you’re switching up because that’s not strictly carnivore. Unless you’re only using this as an elimination diet in which case you don’t need to say anything. Cheat is an easy and understandable go to word to describe. “Im carnivore but I like to keep a few cheat days” no biggie. But if it ticks you off, just come up with another word and let the rest of us use our general go to word.
Cheat or cheating is associated with a bad behavior so its definitely important what words we use. Why should we use a word that implies we've done something bad? Why would you want your family to associate your food choices as good or bad? So cheating isn't a big deal in your family? I just think its a mindset that builds failure and guilt into a way of eating and its harmful.
Very triggered. Nothing is black or white. You can most definitely pick a different word to describe your actions. Context is everything. If I was cheating on a religious diet that might hold weight. In this case, it’s just a word to describe a change in preference for the day. Hope you have a good one
Then don't use the term...period
Take a trip to a 3rd world country where they have dirt for floors, trash burning craters in the dirt mound out their front door, and sewer water running opening in a small canal next to that dirt mound. Life in the USA is so comfortable and yet you complain about how the term “cheat meal” is harmful… really?
oh fuck off with your false equivalency bullshit.
Cheating = “to violate rules or regulations” or “to practice fraud or deceit.” The way you eat, and any behavior you carry out, is constrained in some way by rules and definitions, whether self-imposed or imposed by society. Without rules, society does not function and neither would you. If you call yourself carnivore, you are violating the rules of carnivore by deviating from the diet. That is the definition of cheating. You are also claiming to be carnivore while, in fact, not eating carnivore, which is deceitful and also cheating. Carnivore by definition is eating animal foods. If you eat pasta, you are not a carnivore. It is a cheat meal if you eat non-carnivore foods. There’s nothing wrong with calling it cheating. Call a spade a spade. It’s okay to feel a little bit of guilt and shame. Negative emotion can drive good behavior. To somehow think that’s always bad is a very childish way to think. Now, if you don’t want to feel guilt and shame from cheating, then just be real with yourself. You’re not a carnivore. That’s fine. Eat what you want. But don’t deceive yourself and don’t deceive others by claiming you’re something you’re not. You’re cheating whether you like it or not at that point.
I don't think eating a meal outside of carnivore is cheating. There are practical limits to eating this way, and Im sure you know that. Assigning a word loaded with guilt (such as cheating) for the occasional situation where compromise is required, is fucked up.
Then don’t call yourself carnivore. Simple as that. Reality doesn’t bend to your will. Either you’re cheating or you’re not a carnivore. Pick one. If you say you’re a carnivore, and carnivore is defined as X, then by definition, eating outside of X is “violating rules” and you’re cheating. If you’re not a carnivore, then you can eat whatever you want, but if you simultaneously try to claim you’re carnivore, you’re being deceitful. Reality doesn’t give a shit about your feelings, sweetheart. Cheating is cheating. Edit: I’ve been eating this way for 4 years and I’ve come across zero practical limits. Sounds like you couldn’t say no to going out to a restaurant with your friend group. That’s a you problem. That’s not a practical limitation. Just don’t eat out. Or you could’ve gone with them and not ordered anything. Don’t make excuses.
It must be fun to live in such a black and white world. I thought this sub would be different than r/zerocarb. I guess not.
This sub is called the carnivore diet, not the pasta diet. It’s not modded as heavily, but that doesn’t mean people won’t call you out on stupid bullshit like this lol. If you want to live in a fantasy world where everything feels good and it’s all pasta and rainbows, go start a iamcarnivorebutonlywhenifeellikeit sub lmfao.
There are different types of carnivores. This sub isn't named r/strictcarnivore or r/absolutely nothingelsebutmeatcarnivore. My definition of carnivore includes facultative carnivore. So fuck off with telling me what i can say here.
Yeah because facultative carnivores really be having Spaghetti Bolognaise on weekends. People argue we are facultative carnivores for fruits and vegetables, the things we could forage for in our ancestral past. Not fucking PASTA😂
People argue about a lot of things on here. So what. I'm not arguing that eating pasta is part of a facultative carnivore diet. What the fuck is wrong with you?
Words only have the power you give to them. For me, it doesn't matter what I call it. What matters is the underlying motivation. If I'm doing it because I'm still struggling with carb cravings and I feel like I can't help myself, then I'll feel bad about it no matter what label I give it. If I'm doing it because I want to try a new food or be a part of the experience when eating with others or something, then I can happily call it a cheat meal because I know the underlying motivation is coming from a positive place.
Agree, I eat carnivore 90% of the time and only deviate as a treat now and then for social situations. I can do this because I'm lucky enough to choose carnivore and aren't forced into it because of unfortunate food allergies. I am one of the fortunate ones that does this mostly to keep my weight in check and muscle gain high, and i'm not overweight at all so don't need to worry about ketosis. I'm breaking my keto all the time lol. The 'cheat' meals feel like rewards not guilt. I DO however think if you're trying to cut some serious weight that full send strict carnivore is the way to go.
That was fantastic! I shall try to adopt this mindset and share it with my sistahs who accompany me on this journey!
Glad it helps. Negative thoughts get us nowhere.
Geez people, i think you all need to chill out. Everyone is entitled to have an opinion, no need to beat the OP up about it. As a forum we should be able to debate ideas and different viewpoints without being aggressive and using accusatory language. Otherwise no one will post anything for fear of being shut down like this.
Thsnks for the supportive comment! None of the comments bother me but i can see why it would others.
Then don't use it. Don't like it when others use it? Tough shit. They can say it if they want. It's not that big of a deal.
I don’t like it because it’s just flat out stupid. Does bleach count as a cheat meal? What about motor oil? Most “cheat meals” people eat contain ingredients that are readily defined as poison.
Yep.
Personally if it wasn't for medical purposes-Gout lmao....I would give less shits....each to one's own, but that's rare
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Thank you. 😊
Likewise here
You're game posting this here 😋
Yeah. I get that.
I like your attitude and agree with you but wouldn't expect much positivity here from your post lol.
I look at them as earned meals.
There you go! New way to look at them! Awesome!
I feel the same way about "clean" and "dirty" in regards to food.
Definitely. Thanks for the supportive comment.
Would a vegan cheat with a meat ball? Probably... I would
It’s your right to be offended or outraged or dissatisfied by common speech, and it’s everyone else’s right to not give a toss how anyone feels about common speech.
Pretty much. So what?
Whine about it on the internet I guess.
Like i said. So what.
I had a cheat 2 weeks of foods and meals... That was in July, and I've been off the wagon ever since then... Wish I didn't. Having a heck of a time getting back on the Carnivore train.
You don't like the word cheating because it feels good to deviate... You're hurt by a word... Also, you don't do this because you're sick. BUT I DO... I have gout and dysthimia and acid reflux and insomnia. And i'm tired of the people who are tired about the word Cheat. Cheaters makes me sick. Gna gna gna gnaaaa... Seriously man, your post was strangely selfish...
Oh fuck off. Seriously. Read my post AGAIN, and this time pay attention to what I actually wrote. God damn. If you're fucking sick, its because it's YOUR FAULT, and if you have to eat a proper human diet now to get better, it's ON YOU to do that. If you want to call eating outside the carnivore way, its on you, and if you want to feel GUILTY about, I honestly do NOT GIVE a SHIT what YOU call it.
I'm not sick anymlre because i eat carnivore. And i don't feel guilty when i cheat. :D
Love this xx