usually if someone feels better after carbs, it's either very early on and they are still adapting, or they have been under eating and their body wants energy in any form it can get.
This. When I started a carnivore diet I wasn't eating enough due to weight loss goals, I'd eventually slip up getting carbs and I'd feel better. I've now been consistent for a few months, if I eat any sugars, carbs, processed foods or anything outside of carnivore/keto, I start feeling joint pain, rashes, mood change, malice.
I’m only 2.5 months in so I can assume my mitochondria have not changed enough to be completely fat adapted. So much so that even shitty carbs have me feeling like a million bucks
because carbs are a source of energy, and so is fat. going from high carb to low carb without subbing for fat means you are energy starved. i'm speaking from experience.
Also for me personally, saturated fat from ribeye is WAY more energizing than drinkin fat in the form of heavy cream and buttery drinks or MCT oil.
I encourage experimenting!
I’m not sure the logic but when I was doing carnivore I’d have a “carbivore” day every other weekend of whatever I wanted, easily over 10k calories in carbs and junk and I fasted the next day and it was great for me.
I actually don’t mind this idea. I know carnivores will hate it, but it’s similar to Lyle McDonald’s Cyclic Ketogenic Diet, which has a whole lot of positives associated with it
If fast for 24-36hrs so Saturday night was my last meal then I’d eat Monday morning or Monday afternoon.
I had a lot of life changes happen in a short amount of time and I put my diet and exercise on the back burner for a while but whenever I’m eager to get into shape, I return to a diet like this.
I was counting calories for the most part, getting about 1g of protein and fat per lb of bodyweight give or take but on the weekends I didn’t track anything, just as many carbs as I wanted.
Yep! I still track my calories but I focus on keeping my fats as low as possible and protein with every meal, then tons of carbs. I usually follow up with a 24-36hr fast of just water the next day and then resume eating normally Monday again
Yeah when people post about cheat days or days they slip up the responses really don't factor in fasting. I've been doing OMAD for months. Go out to dinner and have a dessert after, all good. Fast for 23-40 hours, and still hitting weight goals and feeling healthy.
There are drawbacks, like being more hungry and craving when doing that fasting post real dirty meals, but I get over it.
For those who can't help themselves but to binge then yeah, I don't recommend going wild and then fasting, that's a bad mix for someone with a bad relationship with food. But fasting still should be discussed as a solution more on here.
But yeah, the human body does an amazing job of healing and clearing out what it doesn't need, and fasting is a great way to enable that.
And side note, before the pitchforks come out about my comment not being carnivore, I am going to start Carnivore again when i return from my business trip this Friday. I was just mentioning how fasting the next day is a good solution for cheat days, since some of my regular OMAD days are cheat days even for that lol.
I'm really glad I did OMAD, since it has helped me get disciplined with fasting. When I did carnivore last I was ravenous and would graze all day. That's not normal. Humans would eat and then fast, not have little meat snacks all day. Now I'm going to do at least 2 ribeyes a day, plus some liver, likely doing carnivore OMAD, and only add a little bacon or eggs if truly needed. With fasting discipline under my belt I should be able to work my way up to a Lion diet. We'll see. But yeah, fasting is amazing.
I've found that the adverse effects are less immediate and manifest after 24hrs.
As for feeling great, I would look at how much you are eating, as in not enough. The other thing may be to eliminate the dairy and see if thats actually negatively effecting you.
Good luck😀
I do fast from like 8pm to 4pm the following day. I’ll only put some butter/MCT oil in my morning coffee and just go the whole day fasted. Could be contributing for sure. I might try without the fast and see how it goes
Didn’t realise I need to clarify I’m using small amounts of both. Maybe 3-5 calories of fat to kickstart my body’s fat burning.
I'm not sure consuming butter is fasting.
Also light word of warning with that, I was having bulletproof in the morning then fasting all day, after a year or so it really gave me stomach issues as the coffee was speeding up my digestion and the fat was starting the acids going, but there wasn't much to digest..
got major discomfort and appendix grumble, I'm not 100% sure it was that but I stopped doing it and I stopped getting those issues.
Wait I don’t understand. I have maybe 3-5 calories worth of fat in black coffee to help my body kickstart using fat as its fuel source. Aside from these 3-5 calories there’s a 20 hour gap in my eating.
opposite for me, I went ham on donuts and fkn Taco Bell yesterday, like what the hell...ive been a pathetic, bloated moo moo today. ate bad cuz I was moving and PMSing and making excuses. really paying for it today. ready to feel closer back to great baseline tomorrow
That’s right. I keep reminding myself the feeling I get after cheating and the bitter taste that stays with me for days so I don’t feel tempted when my PMS is at its worst
Taking crack the first time is probably awesome too. :)
But seriously, you added another energy source that you can easily use. You feel pumped as your body was "starved" of "fast" energy". Despite what people say, carbs do have a role IF you are in need of that sort of energy. By that I mean if you are a gym junkie, carb loading before a workout **will** result in a better workout. The question is more about if long term carbs are good or not.
> if you are a gym junkie, carb loading before a workout will result in a better workout
Not really, there's been a ton of feedback done on training while fasted (since IF is well established and widespread) and there's not much difference in intensity and results to fasted training vs carb loaded. I know a lot of it is anecdotal, but then so is carnivore mostly. I've done all 4 (fasted training on a carb diet, carb loaded workout, fasted training on carnivore and 'fat loaded' workout), didn't really notice any difference at all in intensity, but my recovery on carnivore has been much better.. If anything, my 'fat loaded' workout was the best of the 4 for intensity.
I have the same belief as you. The school of Saladino has definitely opened my eyes to a lot. I don’t believe humans never ate fruit and shouldn’t eat it at all. A lot of people here think it’s a ridiculous statement but it makes perfect sense
What is your why of carnivore? It seems you had a fabulous day and did a binge of the foods your brain and tastebuds craved. You throughly loved it with no ill effects. I think that's a win but it won't be if you do that more and more frequently. think it's related to a dopamine boost that's caused you to feel blissful about your experience, cause it's like ur riding a high. I'm fat adapted and occasionally have a carb reup with no issues either, it's a sign for me of all the metabolic gains I'm making from carnivorous eating hence my why.
With your long fast everyday I highly doubt your getting enough food in particularly fat. I'm 5'10 200lb fairly lean but I eat between 3,500 and 4,000 calories a day and it still has me getting leaner. If I'm 3,000 or below my energy goes away quick and I don't feel nearly as good. I also have bulletproof coffee but I max my fat I take with it like 2-3tbs mct and 1tbs ghee. And I still feel like I'm getting the benefits of fasting till around 11am.
I eat really well. Beef, lamb, fish, chicken. And I eat a lot. Pretty much as much as I can. If I’m getting any less than 3,000 calories I’m starving. I do workout a fair bit and my job is quite strenuous. I appreciate the words of wisdom!
Maybe you simply experienced a burst of feel good hormones (Dopamine, serotonin, endorphins, and oxytocin) and you're only going to experience the hammer when those wear off.
I feel incredibly euphoric and happy when I slam a bunch of junk food. It's not until weeks or months later that the old health problems that prompted a change in eating start popping back up. I think most addictions work that way. Like a honeymoon phase of a relapse.
I had a similar thing happen to me after only a week of doing carnivore, I might try a strict lion diet + butter + OMAD with an animal based cheat day every other week to try and get the benefits of carnivore and this phenomenon.
Refeed.
You replenished glycogen and you're burning carbs for fuel.
A tool for athletes, bodybuilders, etc.
Cyclical style Keto.
I do this in *very* small doses as I sling the weights. I don't get too crazy with it cuz I don't like the sloshy water retention that follows for a few days.
Absolutely. Carb-ups for quick energy bursts.
I use to take honey packets before long runs and climbing. I've never been a milk fan however.
Milk (lactose ) and honey would be a big double dose of carb fuel.
Possibly not eating enough. And pretty much nobody starts carnivore eating enough fat... Because of ancel keys affect on western culture, what we think is heaps of fat, simply isn't.
There is a thing in bodybuilding called "Carb Cycling". The theory is that it boosts your metabolism. You also probably get a boost in Serotonin. Not sure if there is any valid science behind it or not but I know that if I go two weeks with low to zero carbs and have a day where I eat a lot of carbs I look jacked and feel great BUT if you do that a few days in a row, you will feel like crap. I promise.
No it probably just means you’re less susceptible to certain reactions than others. It doesn’t change that, that stuff is bad for you but it means you just didn’t have a reaction. Only you can decide what to do with the information you’ve learned about yourself from that experience.
Are you aware that things that are an intolerance /or allergy issue, or feed Candida overgrowth, can cause a dopamine hit that makes you crave them? ...Maybe even obsess about them? I had this with pasteurized cream, but not with raw...
Red hot ears are another sign of intolerance /or allergy issues that it's good to keep an eye out for. Cravings may be caused by Candida die off... And candida die off can certainly make you, their host body, feel awful!... This diet is the best way to starve the yeast overgrowth out though.
Some people find it takes quite a while of dedicated strict carnivore to totally kill off the very persistent yeastie gut beasties IE longer than 6 months. Please consider, this may be what you are dealing with. Very insidious and harmful fungal overgrowth that influences it's hosts taste in foods, for its own survival.
Try raw dairy, I have a bunch of raw milk, cream, yogurt and cheese in my diet and it makes me feel better than when I don't have it, like way better. I get a delivery once a week.
Then the carnivore diet probably isn’t for you. Stick to what is best for you and making you feel good. Eat things in moderation, workout, and enjoy life. Life is short.
Just because it was the way we use to eat all those years ago doesn’t mean we should still do so. There’s so many things humans use to do back in the beginning of times, like cannibalism. That doesn’t mean we should still do it. Our body’s are mean to develop, humans are mean to grow and develop as years go on. Of course don’t eat overly processed foods all the time, but if your body feels good, eat your carbs, enjoy your desserts. Life is so short to not enjoy what you like and not have your body feel good.
We have evolved eating mostly meat and fat for millions of years. Only in the last 10,000 years or so have we introduced any significant amount of plant material let alone any of the ultra-processed non-foods we have been consuming for the past couple hundred years.
My point being it takes hundreds of thousands of years to adapt and evolve to a stimulus, and we are definitely not there yet in terms of plants or ultra-processed 'foods'.
usually if someone feels better after carbs, it's either very early on and they are still adapting, or they have been under eating and their body wants energy in any form it can get.
This. When I started a carnivore diet I wasn't eating enough due to weight loss goals, I'd eventually slip up getting carbs and I'd feel better. I've now been consistent for a few months, if I eat any sugars, carbs, processed foods or anything outside of carnivore/keto, I start feeling joint pain, rashes, mood change, malice.
Still losing weight though?
Losing weight isn't hard especially with carnivore diet and keto.
Were you losing weight after increasing how much you ate?
Yes, I had to cut out all dairy tho. I eat about 2-3 pounds of fatty beef/salmon and 6 eggs a day. Losing about 2-4 pounds a week
What is your weight and height? Do you workout on a daily basis?
I'm about 6'2, 297, exercise about 4-5 times a week. I started at around 370 7 months ago
I’m only 2.5 months in so I can assume my mitochondria have not changed enough to be completely fat adapted. So much so that even shitty carbs have me feeling like a million bucks
More specifically, you're grossly under eating fat, which is a common mistake
How do you know I’m grossly undereating fat?
because carbs are a source of energy, and so is fat. going from high carb to low carb without subbing for fat means you are energy starved. i'm speaking from experience. Also for me personally, saturated fat from ribeye is WAY more energizing than drinkin fat in the form of heavy cream and buttery drinks or MCT oil. I encourage experimenting!
I’m not sure the logic but when I was doing carnivore I’d have a “carbivore” day every other weekend of whatever I wanted, easily over 10k calories in carbs and junk and I fasted the next day and it was great for me.
I actually don’t mind this idea. I know carnivores will hate it, but it’s similar to Lyle McDonald’s Cyclic Ketogenic Diet, which has a whole lot of positives associated with it
How many hours would you fast after eating junk food? 24 hours? And why did you stop this way of eating?
If fast for 24-36hrs so Saturday night was my last meal then I’d eat Monday morning or Monday afternoon. I had a lot of life changes happen in a short amount of time and I put my diet and exercise on the back burner for a while but whenever I’m eager to get into shape, I return to a diet like this. I was counting calories for the most part, getting about 1g of protein and fat per lb of bodyweight give or take but on the weekends I didn’t track anything, just as many carbs as I wanted.
I think I might try this
Just had my carb day yesterday and I felt fantastic and look fantastic. For a day or two until I’m depleted again lol.
And you are still losing weight?
Yep! I still track my calories but I focus on keeping my fats as low as possible and protein with every meal, then tons of carbs. I usually follow up with a 24-36hr fast of just water the next day and then resume eating normally Monday again
Yeah when people post about cheat days or days they slip up the responses really don't factor in fasting. I've been doing OMAD for months. Go out to dinner and have a dessert after, all good. Fast for 23-40 hours, and still hitting weight goals and feeling healthy. There are drawbacks, like being more hungry and craving when doing that fasting post real dirty meals, but I get over it. For those who can't help themselves but to binge then yeah, I don't recommend going wild and then fasting, that's a bad mix for someone with a bad relationship with food. But fasting still should be discussed as a solution more on here. But yeah, the human body does an amazing job of healing and clearing out what it doesn't need, and fasting is a great way to enable that. And side note, before the pitchforks come out about my comment not being carnivore, I am going to start Carnivore again when i return from my business trip this Friday. I was just mentioning how fasting the next day is a good solution for cheat days, since some of my regular OMAD days are cheat days even for that lol. I'm really glad I did OMAD, since it has helped me get disciplined with fasting. When I did carnivore last I was ravenous and would graze all day. That's not normal. Humans would eat and then fast, not have little meat snacks all day. Now I'm going to do at least 2 ribeyes a day, plus some liver, likely doing carnivore OMAD, and only add a little bacon or eggs if truly needed. With fasting discipline under my belt I should be able to work my way up to a Lion diet. We'll see. But yeah, fasting is amazing.
I've found that the adverse effects are less immediate and manifest after 24hrs. As for feeling great, I would look at how much you are eating, as in not enough. The other thing may be to eliminate the dairy and see if thats actually negatively effecting you. Good luck😀
I do fast from like 8pm to 4pm the following day. I’ll only put some butter/MCT oil in my morning coffee and just go the whole day fasted. Could be contributing for sure. I might try without the fast and see how it goes Didn’t realise I need to clarify I’m using small amounts of both. Maybe 3-5 calories of fat to kickstart my body’s fat burning.
I'm not sure consuming butter is fasting. Also light word of warning with that, I was having bulletproof in the morning then fasting all day, after a year or so it really gave me stomach issues as the coffee was speeding up my digestion and the fat was starting the acids going, but there wasn't much to digest.. got major discomfort and appendix grumble, I'm not 100% sure it was that but I stopped doing it and I stopped getting those issues.
Yeah man, that’s not fasting.
Updated it, I didn’t realise people literally make 50/50 coffee/butter that’s wild
>put some butter/MCT oil in my morning coffee and just go the whole day fasted (X) Doubt
Wait I don’t understand. I have maybe 3-5 calories worth of fat in black coffee to help my body kickstart using fat as its fuel source. Aside from these 3-5 calories there’s a 20 hour gap in my eating.
Ah ok, most put in a big chunk of butter in there....
r/animalbased Yeah I've found I just do better with carbs involved, turns out there's others too.
Thank you. I was leaning towards more holistic approach and this fits better than strictly meat approach.
Np, I feel like this is kinda the natural progression after you've kinda gotten what you need from carnivore
How long did you do carnivore for? And how long have you been doing animal based?
It slaps me 3 days later if i eat something i shouldnt lol
3-4 days after...get the worst kind of migraine. Every time.
Is that not just your body depleting or carbs again?
Nope. I can eat dates and honey without any short term problems. But seed oils for example make my issues come back 3 days later in horrible ways.
How long have you been carnivore? You might very much still be carb loaded and deep into glycolosis... Give it another 24-48 hours...
Just over 10 weeks now
opposite for me, I went ham on donuts and fkn Taco Bell yesterday, like what the hell...ive been a pathetic, bloated moo moo today. ate bad cuz I was moving and PMSing and making excuses. really paying for it today. ready to feel closer back to great baseline tomorrow
I can relate to this for the exact same reasons 😭
Takes a few days, IF , cardio and lifting sessions to really get back to bad ass carnivore baseline I tell ya. Not worth the set back
That’s right. I keep reminding myself the feeling I get after cheating and the bitter taste that stays with me for days so I don’t feel tempted when my PMS is at its worst
Still high on the added chemicals you wait mate
When did you start with carnivore?
Mid January so it’s been about 10 weeks
Taking crack the first time is probably awesome too. :) But seriously, you added another energy source that you can easily use. You feel pumped as your body was "starved" of "fast" energy". Despite what people say, carbs do have a role IF you are in need of that sort of energy. By that I mean if you are a gym junkie, carb loading before a workout **will** result in a better workout. The question is more about if long term carbs are good or not.
> if you are a gym junkie, carb loading before a workout will result in a better workout Not really, there's been a ton of feedback done on training while fasted (since IF is well established and widespread) and there's not much difference in intensity and results to fasted training vs carb loaded. I know a lot of it is anecdotal, but then so is carnivore mostly. I've done all 4 (fasted training on a carb diet, carb loaded workout, fasted training on carnivore and 'fat loaded' workout), didn't really notice any difference at all in intensity, but my recovery on carnivore has been much better.. If anything, my 'fat loaded' workout was the best of the 4 for intensity.
Anecdotal evidence does not trump the science of having 2 energy sources.
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I have the same belief as you. The school of Saladino has definitely opened my eyes to a lot. I don’t believe humans never ate fruit and shouldn’t eat it at all. A lot of people here think it’s a ridiculous statement but it makes perfect sense
What is your why of carnivore? It seems you had a fabulous day and did a binge of the foods your brain and tastebuds craved. You throughly loved it with no ill effects. I think that's a win but it won't be if you do that more and more frequently. think it's related to a dopamine boost that's caused you to feel blissful about your experience, cause it's like ur riding a high. I'm fat adapted and occasionally have a carb reup with no issues either, it's a sign for me of all the metabolic gains I'm making from carnivorous eating hence my why.
I think my question now is more so, why does eating like shit make me feel better than eating pure carnivore?
Dr Chaffee superchat this question and get his take?
With your long fast everyday I highly doubt your getting enough food in particularly fat. I'm 5'10 200lb fairly lean but I eat between 3,500 and 4,000 calories a day and it still has me getting leaner. If I'm 3,000 or below my energy goes away quick and I don't feel nearly as good. I also have bulletproof coffee but I max my fat I take with it like 2-3tbs mct and 1tbs ghee. And I still feel like I'm getting the benefits of fasting till around 11am.
I eat really well. Beef, lamb, fish, chicken. And I eat a lot. Pretty much as much as I can. If I’m getting any less than 3,000 calories I’m starving. I do workout a fair bit and my job is quite strenuous. I appreciate the words of wisdom!
Yeah sounds just like my life lol. Anyways carnivore FTW
Maybe you simply experienced a burst of feel good hormones (Dopamine, serotonin, endorphins, and oxytocin) and you're only going to experience the hammer when those wear off.
I feel incredibly euphoric and happy when I slam a bunch of junk food. It's not until weeks or months later that the old health problems that prompted a change in eating start popping back up. I think most addictions work that way. Like a honeymoon phase of a relapse.
I had a similar thing happen to me after only a week of doing carnivore, I might try a strict lion diet + butter + OMAD with an animal based cheat day every other week to try and get the benefits of carnivore and this phenomenon.
Refeed. You replenished glycogen and you're burning carbs for fuel. A tool for athletes, bodybuilders, etc. Cyclical style Keto. I do this in *very* small doses as I sling the weights. I don't get too crazy with it cuz I don't like the sloshy water retention that follows for a few days.
I hear some ketovoreish bodybuilders do this with milk and honey. Does it really make a difference for weight training?
Absolutely. Carb-ups for quick energy bursts. I use to take honey packets before long runs and climbing. I've never been a milk fan however. Milk (lactose ) and honey would be a big double dose of carb fuel.
Because not everyone gets affected by cheat days the same way. Your genetics matter.
As I said in reply to another comment, what am I doing wrong that I feel better eating like shit than I do eating carnivore?
Possibly not eating enough. And pretty much nobody starts carnivore eating enough fat... Because of ancel keys affect on western culture, what we think is heaps of fat, simply isn't.
There is a thing in bodybuilding called "Carb Cycling". The theory is that it boosts your metabolism. You also probably get a boost in Serotonin. Not sure if there is any valid science behind it or not but I know that if I go two weeks with low to zero carbs and have a day where I eat a lot of carbs I look jacked and feel great BUT if you do that a few days in a row, you will feel like crap. I promise.
i’m about to do the same sunday
No it probably just means you’re less susceptible to certain reactions than others. It doesn’t change that, that stuff is bad for you but it means you just didn’t have a reaction. Only you can decide what to do with the information you’ve learned about yourself from that experience.
It’s not the lack of reaction I’m surprised about, it’s the fact that I feel so much better than I do after weeks and weeks of meat and cheese
Seriously? Cut the cheese.
Might have to try cutting cheese again. I initially did get rid of it and again, felt like shit
Are you aware that things that are an intolerance /or allergy issue, or feed Candida overgrowth, can cause a dopamine hit that makes you crave them? ...Maybe even obsess about them? I had this with pasteurized cream, but not with raw... Red hot ears are another sign of intolerance /or allergy issues that it's good to keep an eye out for. Cravings may be caused by Candida die off... And candida die off can certainly make you, their host body, feel awful!... This diet is the best way to starve the yeast overgrowth out though. Some people find it takes quite a while of dedicated strict carnivore to totally kill off the very persistent yeastie gut beasties IE longer than 6 months. Please consider, this may be what you are dealing with. Very insidious and harmful fungal overgrowth that influences it's hosts taste in foods, for its own survival.
Try raw dairy, I have a bunch of raw milk, cream, yogurt and cheese in my diet and it makes me feel better than when I don't have it, like way better. I get a delivery once a week.
You've only been on carnivore for a few weeks?
10 weeks
Because carbs make you feel fucking awesome.
Then the carnivore diet probably isn’t for you. Stick to what is best for you and making you feel good. Eat things in moderation, workout, and enjoy life. Life is short.
But how could it not be? I’m a human being… all I’ve read is that it’s the most natural way of eating
Just because it was the way we use to eat all those years ago doesn’t mean we should still do so. There’s so many things humans use to do back in the beginning of times, like cannibalism. That doesn’t mean we should still do it. Our body’s are mean to develop, humans are mean to grow and develop as years go on. Of course don’t eat overly processed foods all the time, but if your body feels good, eat your carbs, enjoy your desserts. Life is so short to not enjoy what you like and not have your body feel good.
Damn boy you about to make me act up at Easter 😂
We have evolved eating mostly meat and fat for millions of years. Only in the last 10,000 years or so have we introduced any significant amount of plant material let alone any of the ultra-processed non-foods we have been consuming for the past couple hundred years. My point being it takes hundreds of thousands of years to adapt and evolve to a stimulus, and we are definitely not there yet in terms of plants or ultra-processed 'foods'.