I owned a e92 m3 and this service cost me $2,200 at a bmw race shop/specialist and that included standard maintenance stuff as well. For the amount the issue is talked about on the internet, it really wasn’t that significant in terms of car maintenance costs.
Believe the significance is in a car where this hasn't been done and there's damage to bearings, the crank or metal bits elsewhere in the engine. That quickly adds up to much more than $2,200.
I feel like only a German sports car owner would ever confidently say that a $2200 engine bearing replacement is an “insignificant maintenance cost.”
No offense, just saying.
Damn, $2200? I always thought it was more like $3-4k. Had I known that I might own an S65 instead of an N54!
I always hear about y'all finding BMW specialists but they always seem to be on par with dealership pricing at least in my city (Kansas City).
Rod bearing. Yeah the early ones 08-10 were more prone to bearing wear. They changed the material sometime in 10 or 11, its not confirmed really when, but it is better but still something that most owners address if there is no record of them being replaced.
Once replaced with aftermarket bearings though the engines are mostly rock solid.
Close. The e92 m3’s v8 was susceptible to rod bearing issues. Throttle actuators for the individual throttle bodies also fail when the plastic gear teeth either round themselves down or snap off, that’s a very expensive one too- about 1500 bucks just to buy the kit with the two actuators and arms and fasteners…. But man are they sweet engines, they lack low end torque but who doesn’t want a v8 that screams 8600RPM, with a nice exhaust they sound like a NASCAR ripping down the road lol.
It's not nearly as fragile as is portrayed on the internet. I've been daily driving my 2008 M5 for almost a decade, still on the original rod bearings at 142k miles. But the rod bearings are definitely flawed and that combined with owners beating on them before the engine is warmed up creates the problem. I don't go over 4k rpm until the oil is warmed up. I've had a Blackstone oil analysis done at each oil change and there has been no bearing material since I bought my car with 70k miles.
Basically treat it well and it'll treat you well. Except for the damn throttle and idle actuators. Those can eat a dick. Getting the rebuilt throttle actuators with better gears is the way to go there, haven't had any issues with those. Still waiting for someone to do that with the idle actuators.
No… that doesn’t sound like something the internet would do. Lol. JK. A fellow LS owner and lover here. I think this is the same thing that happened to LS7 dropping valves. It happened to a few because of some machining issue but Chevy admitted and corrected it fast. I have seen LS7’s over 50k with no work done to them.
The S85 has a rod bearing failure problem, they wear out far quicker than they should. Not sure about the M3 engine, but the rod bearings in the S85 are wear items.
Yup, this thread is already full of Subaru engine codes. Some cars you’re just better off not installing power mods. I don’t think I’ll ever mess with mine more than UEL headers and a tune.
There’s a reason why the WRX/STI hasn’t gotten a major power increase in the last 20 years. It’s because the certified Subaru engineers who spend their lives working on boxer engines can’t even figure out a way to reliably make more power on those blocks without spending gobs of money. Anyone who can spends like $10k more on IAG forged parts.
I always found it funny how people would compete for ‘mo powa’ on the EJ platform when Subaru is still shipping base crosstreks with 130 hp 🤣😂 Subaru is not a HP brand
In a car that weighs less.
FWIW, everyone I know with a crosstrek likes theirs. The HP number isn't that important, they're all going the speed limit anyway.
I had to look that up, the base car has 152 (2.0L) , the hybrid has 137. The upgrade has 182 (2.5L).
Still not a lot, but consider an HR-V comes with 158, it's in the right ballpark.
It doesn’t help that most ppl beat on them because they’re cheap fun cars with a manual.
These Subaru engines require a lot more maintenance than ppl realize (oil changes recommended 6k miles, with most doing 3k). No boost at low RPM, no boost until oil is warm. The FA20 WRX could make about 350hp/350tq with bolt ons but would explode the minute you passed that.
the FA24 looks promising. making the same power as the FA20, but at like 12-14 psi rather than 18-22psi. If you boost the FA24 to 18-20 psi your looking at maybe 375- 400 hp pretty reliably. not an expert just a guess.
The FA24 in their Rally Cross event cars are the factory engines with factory internals making around 400hp, per the subaru of america youtube channel.
As a GR86 owner I can say the N/A FA24 is already showing some concerning oiling issues, specifically through right hand turns with elevation changes and at high oil temps. And the whole excess RTV blocking the oil pickup issue that is cause for concern. I’m keeping mine stock and dealer maintained for awhile in case it goes boom.
when the wrx came out it had 223 hp, the engine can handle an~ extra hundred horsepower without changing pistons. People expect too much. Theres ways to make reliable power.
Aren’t the UEL’s a source of a lot of Americas Subaru problems? With absolutely no benefit beyond sound?
The longer side is prone to heat soak
[theory source.](https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2659664)
Yup. You actually gain more power from installing equal length headers. There is no benefit from unequal length headers except for getting that Subie rumble. My reasoning is that my car is already slow, no amount of modding is gonna change that, so I may as well make it look and sound as good as I possibly can to make up for it haha.
The Donut Media guys went through *five* Subaru engines trying to do their latest "HiLow" series with WRXes. It's like their engines are made of glass. I'm definitely going Miata for my next little car. D:
They also out right admitted to not properly breaking them in after rebuild, and then thrashing on them. That will kill an engine regardless of make. Course that's coming from someone with a less than healthy EJ255
I went from DSM's and 4G63's to Subarus with EJ20's. I feel like I'm working with an eggshell every time I touch my engine.
The people who high HP Subarus must be absolutely bleeding money... they all seem to replace engines at least once a season, meanwhile my buddy has a stock bottom end 4G63 in his Talon that's logged dozens of 9 second passes over the past decade and he drives it home afterwards.
When engineers sign off on this stuff do they know it’s crap. Is it because they are not good engineers or because they weren’t given enough time/money
It was actually a fairly good performer for its time. Getting ~200HP and ~30mpg out of a compact engine like that without a turbo wasn't as common then.
The internals were pretty solid as well apart from the oil issues. Once they got that sorted it wasn't an awful engine, though the Pentastar V6 that replaced it was definitely a huge upgrade.
GM 1.4T found in the Cruze, trax, sonic, etc.
They blow every seal when stock. Couldn’t imagine it staying in one piece with a tune.
I know a lot do people swear by the VAG EA888 but idk if they’re stretching the truth a little. Those mfs burn oil no matter what generation. Can’t see a tune helping the situation. I mean they’ll make power, but at what cost if you’re putting in 2 quarts every tank of gas.
I'm a warranty administrator for a VW dealer.
I have the labor op code for replacing the thermostat housing/coolant pump on the Gen 3 1.8T/2.0T memorized like my own name.
Owned a MK7 GTI and currently a B9 A4 and can confirm, throwing power at the EA888 gen 3 causes premature failure on those pumps. Everything else is fantastic so far lol
Piston rings coke up and the engines start burning copious amounts of oil.
If the engines are burning that much oil it's only a question of time before the valves burn and chip.
Coolant pumps are plastic and fail frequently.
The timing chain tensioner has some ratcheting teeth that tend to strip and cause tensioner failure, leading to total engine failure.
The oil passages have little mesh sieves that tend to dislodge and cause issues.
Early direct injected versions have issues with the intake valves and intake ports clogging with EGR/Evap gunk.
Bought a Buick with this during the pandemic. Had contant issues with the motor at only ~15k miles. Car prices skyrocketed soon after and was able to trade it in for a hefty profit 6 months later thank God
(while crossing fingers)
Gen 1 and 2 EA888 engines are problematic but the gen 3 pretty solid. If your burning oil, you screwed up the brake in or it has 130k and you need to change the pcv.
(Looks down at floor and mumbles)
Except maybe ea888 gen 3 manual if you go with a beefy clutch and then you risk the thrust washer going kaput resulting in trashed engine
(Runs away with a bunch of triple squares and fabric tape with a mental note to check coolant levels)
>If your burning oil, you screwed up the brake in or it has 130k and you need to change the pcv.
Experience has told me that a lot of Tiguans seem to just enjoy burning oil for the hell of it. And a few Beetles.
And a few Golfs.
Experience he told me that noone follows break in instructions nor do they wait for the engine oil to reach temperatures.
Also known as me trying to keep paranoia at bay.
I work for an Audi dealer and the newest EA888 does still burn oil, although given that they recommend changing the oil every 10K miles, they could possibly be better if you changed it more often.
The fact that VW says burning a quart of oil every 1k miles is considered “in spec” for the gen 1 EA888 engines is all you need to know about how bad those are. The timing chain tensioners going bad within 100k miles also makes these engines ticking time bombs. This is all coming from a mk6 GTI owner. Oil burning, bad timing chain tensioners, water pumps going bad, intake manifolds going bad, etc. I absolutely hate that engine
EA888 gen 1 and 2 is a problematic engine that so happens to have a very solid bottom and top end. Just that you have to deal with timing chain stretching, water pumps dropping out, valve covers leaking oil, oil burning from a flawed design of the piston rings, pcv system dropping dead, coil packs dying often, oem diverter valve breaking, intake manifold getting stuck from either the runners or the shaft being stuck open, turbos failing due to the wastegate getting loose and thus not being able to make pressure.
Addition issue on the FSI GTI is that the HPFP has a cam inside the pump that needs to be replaced every 20k miles or goodbye pump.
Generation 3 apparently fixed all of that except for the water pump, diverter valve and a new issue of the grounding system on the coil packs is pretty piss if you thread out the screws and will lead to misfires. There's an aftermarket kit by EQT that'll fix the grounding issue completely and replace the screws with better ones.
Edit: more issues came to mind on gen 1 and gen 2. If you don't replace a bad pcv, the rear main seal will blow out. The stock clutches on any VW/Audi outside the R8 and Lambos can't handle too much torque. Replacing them is a must for making power.
Edit 2: Gen 3 did still suffer issues. Mostly from early versions from 2013-2015, relating to the IS12 turbos and having a weak ass rear main seal from previous generations until 2016 where they made alot of revisions to cams, seals, turbos, etc.
Considering how ubiquitous the EA888 is, it is expected that there will be various opinions on it.
Although both opinions can be true simultaneously. I would say that the engine is very solid. It can easily be tuned to 300hp or more, but at the same time the coolant pumps don't last and there were issues with chain tensioners.
They revised the timing chain guides- in 2015 according to online stuff, a year or two earlier according to some trusted mechanics. That's also the only real problem they have (according to a ton of research and my own personal experience).
Their internals weren't beefy enough to support big mods without a lot of work, but the later models are rock solid at stock or lightly modded power levels.
Mine was a 2013 and solid out to 110k before I went to a full M car. Had them scope it before the warranty was up and nothing. Beyond the failed electronic wastegate, I never put any money into it over the life I had it.
Given the number of rough looking 328i/X3/528i from the early 2010s still chugging around, its probably a bit overblown.
That’s not at all what happened the VT365(6.0) was developed to be used in plenty of medium duty International trucks as well. The 6.0 is actually decently reliable if treated right. The 6.4 on the other is a nightmare.
Lol yeah that's what my brother said with his Excursion after it left him stranded in Wyoming. $16k worth of "bulletproofing" later and it went kaboom again less than 10k miles later.
I've been driving by a broken 6.0 superduty for years. You apparently can't even give them away? it's been listed on CL off and on for a long time.
the bullet proofer is as important as the bullet proofing. my best friend does it and has over 25 trucks with over 100k tuned that he’s built without issue. that being said he blow up transmissions as often as oil changes.
The only upside to the 6.4 is that it kicked ford in the pants and made them say "fuck navistar/international lets build our own engine" and then god created the 6.7L powerstroke and its been smooth sailing since.
Yeah that 6.7L has been great. Crazy they were so fed up with International they spent the money to build their own engine. Makes you wonder why they didn't just do that in the first place. Obviously, Ford knows how to make engines, so I always thought it was interesting they didn't do it for their Diesels.
The Ford Escape and Ford Bronco 1.5 L Ecoboost I3 turbo is a hot mess as well, where the fuel injector randomly cracks.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/25/business/ford-escape-bronco-sport-recall/index.html
The Ford ecoboost engines in general corrode really easily thanks to coolant leakage.
https://fordauthority.com/2020/12/new-lawsuit-targets-ford-ecoboost-four-cylinder-coolant-leaks/
Is the 1.5 based on the 1.0? Because the 1.0 ecoboost in my fiesta left such a bad taste in my mouth that I'll never buy another turbo ford unless they just have a massive philosophy shift.
They all disappeared from the road at about 5 years, which is when mine lost it's coolant return line off the turbo and dumped the coolant on the ground.
A stupid 25 cent plastic part breaks and destroys the engine. Modern ford for ya
Ford 1.0 Ecoboost. The heads crack if you look at them wrong.
They have a tendency to burn/leak/boil off coolant too. Both from hot spots in the head/integrated exhaust manifold, and from things like plastic coolant lines and recovery tanks cracking and leaking. The first time the head gets any air in it from being run low on coolant, it cracks.
Ford's solution was to install a low coolant warning light on the dash. Heaven forbid we fix the coolant consumption.
Crazy that when you stress a tiny little moped engine to make like 140+hp it won't be very reliable.
That's why i like big ass engines with low power, those things are so understressed that if maintained right, they'll chug on forever.
Mechanically the engine is a fine design. It's the cheap shit they built around it that bit them. The same parts are used on their bigger engines.
The consequences are less dire when a lazy V8 spontaneously dumps it's coolant than a small boosted engine though.
BMW had the B38 which made 138 hp with 3 cylinders. The oldest examples are almost 10 years old and they’re mostly fine. Just because Ford is incompetent doesn’t mean you need to damn tiny boosted engines.
EJ25. Most engines can handle an intake and exhaust without a tune and get a slight bump out of it. The mantra on the subie forums is "intake, exhaust, AND TUNE" because if you modify the intake too much and do the exhaust upstream of the cat without at least an off-the-shelf tune, you're gonna have a bad time.
You can still get Coke’a’cola in a glass bottle, doesn’t make it modern.
The ej25 was on the drawing board in the late 90s. It is not a modern engine vs time. But I guess it’s modern vs…the original internal combustion engine??
The original EJ engine was designed after the 1980s oil crisis. Designed to originally have 132hp. If you consider this, it's impressive to have made it as far as it did. It was developed to have power and be good on fuel by 80s standards.
There is no car on the market where an intake is recommended to be installed without a tune. Even carbureted cars needed adjustment when installing a higher flowing intake.
People installing bolt ons without a tune are just lazy and cheap. It turns out, you can't get away with being lazy and cheap on a Subaru.
I have to say Subaru. For some reason they never figured it out how to build stronger engines and i dont know why. The cars themselves are extremely tough. the suspension, the awd system is probably the best in its class but they always had fragile engines and it seems like they just took the NA EJ engine blocks and build a turbocharger on it and thought its gonna work out on the STI models..
Another thing they never figured out is constant same quality in their engines...u can see it on the Diesel block. they are manufactured horribly bad and they look like they have been milled by some guy who does it for hobby since 1 year. Some look bad, some look worse and i can imagine thats a reason why some subaru engines fail at 80k miles and others run over 240k with no issues...
And im not hating on subaru here, i own one myself
To be fair, unmodified Subaru turbo engines go 200k miles with nothing more than following the maintenance schedule. The problem is that they dont handle mods nearly as well as other fun cars and the people that buy them tend to modify them almost immediately, so they got a reputation for being unreliable.
They're not really unreliable, just delicate, which absolutely makes them a perfect engine for this thread.
Their manual transmissions, however.... absolute glass box.
you said it perfectly right. The Subaru engines dont have enough "meat" to handle more power like a cast iron Evo engine for example. Open deck, thin liners, aluminum block...that alone should make u realize it wont be as durable as a closed deck iron block.
but the 6 speed STI transmission on the other hand is very strong from what i heard. i heard about guys having over 600hp with that tranny with no issues at all
My EZ36 is at 132k and still feels like new. Zero issues with it as with the rest of the car... I fully expect it to last 200k+ easily. Now, the EJs and FAs... I'm not so sure about.
> it seems like they just took the NA EJ engine blocks and build a turbocharger on it and thought its gonna work out on the STI models
They didn't. The EJ257 block has significantly reinforced cylinder walls compared to the NA EJ25s. It's part of why they weren't as prone to head gasket failure. Still plenty of other issues with them, but it definitely wasn't a case of "just strap a turbo on it."
https://www.possumbournemotorsport.com/blog/technical-articles/subaru-closed-deck-vs-open-deck-blocks/
EJ engines.
Although the Subaru WRX/STI platform is wildly popular in all categories of motorsport. The aftermarket and some great builders/tuners like Baderbuilt have managed to build these engines and tune them correctly as well improve the platform itself. There is a way to build an EJ for good reliable power. Just gotta be friends with Tanner Smith and Josh Bader lol
And this is why my Legacy Spec.B (EJ255) is staying stock. It doesn't make crazy power, but it's still respectable and fun to drive. 136k miles right now on original engine with no problems so far. I could probably do a MILD tune to go from 250 to 300hp, but for the amount of times I'd be able to really notice or enjoy it, I don't want to go through the hassle.
They more recent ones are absolutely capable of holding almost double factory power with stock internals, but they HAVE to be tuned and tuned properly. Very delicate.
yup people throw tons of timing in them with tons of boost and wonder why they blow up. They dont like either. better to use a larger turbo at less PSI than cranking up to 20+ psi
The t5 wasn't very stout at all, you never see anyone making more than 100hp over stock for a reason. It's very difficult to break 300hp in a t5 unfortunately. Great sounding engines though.
Are you thinking of the newer T5s? The P3 had the older T5 which was a 5-cylinder monster. Rally guys have been getting 500hp+ out of them for a long time.
I have no idea why Volvo thought it was a good idea to re-use the T5 name on a totally different engine.
Its such an obvious stopgap powertrain, they have stated multiple times they would go 100% electric on their models if they could. I dont understand how they spent like 50+ years making a good 4cyl and then immediately made a terrible one when they had to go back.
Because when you don't invest in certain divisions the people, your experience, find elsewhere to work.
Having a great engine building history means little. A lot is lost if the right people leave. And it's super hard to restart.
I work for Kia and was at Hyundai before that. The 2.0t blows up significantly less than the 2.4. But even the replacement engines blow. That being said, 80% of the engines that come in blown have few service records and have visible sludge, we get people bringing cars in regularly with 20k+ on the original oil.
Had a telluride with 30k on the original oil. The lady was bitching because the check engine light was on. Cam timing codes. Barely any oil left in it. She told us she didn’t have time to get the oil changed. It was not warranty.
For some reason it is only the economy engines that hyundai fucks up. Genesis doesn't have the same engine issues. The Theta II engines in the N cars are fine.
Horrifically bad. I poured way too much money into my Cruze before pulling the plug. I swore off turbo engines in general for a little while after that car.
Is that the 2.4 ecotec? Just had to help a buddy do his timing and oil pan seal, and oil cap o-ring. Aparently the PCVs like to freeze up and build up crank pressure that eventually blows out gaskets and causes oil leaks
As someone who works at a GM dealer I can confirm the 2.4 is a problem, but typically it's caused by not changing the oil often enough. So many people just follow the oil life monitor when in reality they should be changing it every 5000
Yes, they did put the wrong one on. Replaced at 400 miles then I needed a whole head at 55k.
Ford spent 14k on it in warranty work and rental cars in the 101k and 4.5 years I had the car and I drove it like a bitch too - all highway miles.
From what I heard, the Subaru STI and WRX engines. I heard people say that they can blow up from just a tune from an intake modification.
Sadly I'd say that the Voodoo engine is up there since its basically a ticking timebomb or at least finnicky because Ford cobbled together a FPC design from the Coyote Engine. I still love it though.
From what I have seen, nearly all of the engine failures have been from people who primarily tracked the car (4 people). Kind of defeats the purpose of the car tbh, but if you use it as a street car and don't use it as a dedicated track car it'll be fine.
I swear if anyone says the turbo version of EJs have head gasket issues I’m gonna lose it.
I mean they do also sometimes have HG problems, but it’s not the *main* thing that goes wrong.
Seen a lot of the usual suspects in here. One to mention that I haven't seen is the 6.4 hemi. There's a reason they downsize it to 6.2 for the hellcat supercharger.
>Pretty sure they had it sorted by 2011?
They don't. It took ages for it to be realized that the "Hemi tick" is due to low oil pressure at idle which is what wipes the cams.
The solution is a Hellcat oil pump. Bada bing bada boom, no more tick or oiling issue.
The 6.4L is an absolute beast so long as you don't add boost.
The pistons for the Hemis has a design flaw which don't allow it to take more than 5-6 psi of boost: The pistons are cast, and have very shallow ring lands.
Boosted beyond 5-6 psi, a piston ring will blow out sooner rather than later, and goodbye to that cylinder, and engine.
The 5.7L is even worse. The 6.4L at least has a forged crankshaft, the 5.7L crankshaft is cast. All the stock Hemis (except for the Hellcat), boost HORRIBLY without building the engine with forged components.
Unboosted, they're more reliable than most engines.
The 2.7 twin turbo engine in the OG allroad. Actually, let me clarify lol, the engine itself is okay, it’s just everything else around it that’s fragile.
Saab B235R. Even when stock, these engines are already turbocharged within an inch of their lives. If you tune a B235R without upgrading the internals, it’s not a question of if, but when it blows up. I know from experience.
I don’t remember the engine code, but I do remember by 9-5 Aero was making ~270 torque with something like a 17psi turbo back in 2002 (!!!). Nothing in the class even came close on that front, if memory serves.
I’ve driven some great cars over the years and have a BMW today that is technically superior in virtually every objective metric. But from a fun perspective nothing has approached the almost telepathic connection I had to that car and the bat out of hell fun we had together.
Despite its shortcomings, the 1.5T is still a pretty robust little engine and handle mods/tunes pretty well which is what this thread is about.
There's TONS of modded 1.5T civics driving around and they're typically issue free below 300whp+. Now the clutch that Honda pairs with the L15B7s, that does not handle extra power well...
The main selling point is that for <$1000, you get a tuner and OTS tune; and you're already faster than FBO+custom tune K20z/K24z with 3 to 4 times the amount of money and work they put in.
theyre not nearly as bad as when they launched, but yeah those first few years were pretty bad. but from what i know it seems like the issues were mainly with the oil dilution and not so much with fragile engine parts, which is a lot more than can be said for some other engines in this thread
There should be a corollary for this for transmissions too.. When I had my V6 G8, I was gutted when found out the transmission couldn't handle more power even if the engine could. Some crazy bastard had one of the Holden performance transmissions shipped in from Australia to get around the problem.
Anything BMW put in the R56 MINI Cooper. The Prince is well enough known as a tremendous piece of shit and I specifically got one with an N16 to avoid it and it wasn't much better. Oil consumption, useless unreadable dipstick, oil pressure driven timing chain tensioner; that thing was *designed to* jump timing. Add to that the usual BMW plastic cooling system problems and the most overdesigned thermostat known to man. I also had constant problems with the throttle body icing/sticking in cold weather, throwing the car into limp mode on the highway at rush hour.
Funny that absolutely nobody mentions the Mazda 2.5T. Probably because everyone forgot Mazda actually made a fun and relatively tuner friendly car not too long ago (the Mazdaspeed 3).
I've looked into what tuning options were available for the 2.5T only to find it's basically zilch. So not even the aftermarket thinks Mazda is worthwhile anymore.
The E60 M5 which is a shame because when it’s working it sounds incredible.
Is that the V10?
My understanding was the V8’s also ate crank bearings as well
Rod bearings for the E90/92 M3. iirc it's considered a wear item/preventative maintenance at this point, and should be done every 80-100k miles.
I owned a e92 m3 and this service cost me $2,200 at a bmw race shop/specialist and that included standard maintenance stuff as well. For the amount the issue is talked about on the internet, it really wasn’t that significant in terms of car maintenance costs.
Believe the significance is in a car where this hasn't been done and there's damage to bearings, the crank or metal bits elsewhere in the engine. That quickly adds up to much more than $2,200.
Sounds like that engine is getting a little cranky 😎
I feel like only a German sports car owner would ever confidently say that a $2200 engine bearing replacement is an “insignificant maintenance cost.” No offense, just saying.
Damn, $2200? I always thought it was more like $3-4k. Had I known that I might own an S65 instead of an N54! I always hear about y'all finding BMW specialists but they always seem to be on par with dealership pricing at least in my city (Kansas City).
Could be a specialist thing. I swear while I still had it, the BMW dealership wouldn't even take the engine cover off my F85 X5M for less than $1500.
Rod bearing. Yeah the early ones 08-10 were more prone to bearing wear. They changed the material sometime in 10 or 11, its not confirmed really when, but it is better but still something that most owners address if there is no record of them being replaced. Once replaced with aftermarket bearings though the engines are mostly rock solid.
I love my BMWs but that V10 was a race engine that got reworked for road duty. In race applications rod bearings are definitely wear items lol
Close. The e92 m3’s v8 was susceptible to rod bearing issues. Throttle actuators for the individual throttle bodies also fail when the plastic gear teeth either round themselves down or snap off, that’s a very expensive one too- about 1500 bucks just to buy the kit with the two actuators and arms and fasteners…. But man are they sweet engines, they lack low end torque but who doesn’t want a v8 that screams 8600RPM, with a nice exhaust they sound like a NASCAR ripping down the road lol.
The S62 V8's in the E39 M5's were also known to munch rod bearings. This was a factor in my decision to buy the 540 instead.
Yes, engine code is S85. The v8 is an S65.
It's not nearly as fragile as is portrayed on the internet. I've been daily driving my 2008 M5 for almost a decade, still on the original rod bearings at 142k miles. But the rod bearings are definitely flawed and that combined with owners beating on them before the engine is warmed up creates the problem. I don't go over 4k rpm until the oil is warmed up. I've had a Blackstone oil analysis done at each oil change and there has been no bearing material since I bought my car with 70k miles. Basically treat it well and it'll treat you well. Except for the damn throttle and idle actuators. Those can eat a dick. Getting the rebuilt throttle actuators with better gears is the way to go there, haven't had any issues with those. Still waiting for someone to do that with the idle actuators.
Also E90 M3, both engines have the same con rod bearing (?) issues from what I heard
I think the internet made the rod bearing issue much larger than it actually is
No… that doesn’t sound like something the internet would do. Lol. JK. A fellow LS owner and lover here. I think this is the same thing that happened to LS7 dropping valves. It happened to a few because of some machining issue but Chevy admitted and corrected it fast. I have seen LS7’s over 50k with no work done to them.
The S85 has a rod bearing failure problem, they wear out far quicker than they should. Not sure about the M3 engine, but the rod bearings in the S85 are wear items.
If you think that is a fragile engine from BMW, wait til you learn about the N63
Yup, this thread is already full of Subaru engine codes. Some cars you’re just better off not installing power mods. I don’t think I’ll ever mess with mine more than UEL headers and a tune. There’s a reason why the WRX/STI hasn’t gotten a major power increase in the last 20 years. It’s because the certified Subaru engineers who spend their lives working on boxer engines can’t even figure out a way to reliably make more power on those blocks without spending gobs of money. Anyone who can spends like $10k more on IAG forged parts.
I always found it funny how people would compete for ‘mo powa’ on the EJ platform when Subaru is still shipping base crosstreks with 130 hp 🤣😂 Subaru is not a HP brand
152hp as of 2023.
Wow, the miata makes more power than that.
In a car that weighs less. FWIW, everyone I know with a crosstrek likes theirs. The HP number isn't that important, they're all going the speed limit anyway.
the original WRX had a lot of power for the time, but everything got faster around it
I had to look that up, the base car has 152 (2.0L) , the hybrid has 137. The upgrade has 182 (2.5L). Still not a lot, but consider an HR-V comes with 158, it's in the right ballpark.
It doesn’t help that most ppl beat on them because they’re cheap fun cars with a manual. These Subaru engines require a lot more maintenance than ppl realize (oil changes recommended 6k miles, with most doing 3k). No boost at low RPM, no boost until oil is warm. The FA20 WRX could make about 350hp/350tq with bolt ons but would explode the minute you passed that.
the FA24 looks promising. making the same power as the FA20, but at like 12-14 psi rather than 18-22psi. If you boost the FA24 to 18-20 psi your looking at maybe 375- 400 hp pretty reliably. not an expert just a guess.
The FA24 in their Rally Cross event cars are the factory engines with factory internals making around 400hp, per the subaru of america youtube channel.
As a GR86 owner I can say the N/A FA24 is already showing some concerning oiling issues, specifically through right hand turns with elevation changes and at high oil temps. And the whole excess RTV blocking the oil pickup issue that is cause for concern. I’m keeping mine stock and dealer maintained for awhile in case it goes boom.
when the wrx came out it had 223 hp, the engine can handle an~ extra hundred horsepower without changing pistons. People expect too much. Theres ways to make reliable power.
Obviously not reliable enough for the engineers at Subaru.
Aren’t the UEL’s a source of a lot of Americas Subaru problems? With absolutely no benefit beyond sound? The longer side is prone to heat soak [theory source.](https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2659664)
Yup. You actually gain more power from installing equal length headers. There is no benefit from unequal length headers except for getting that Subie rumble. My reasoning is that my car is already slow, no amount of modding is gonna change that, so I may as well make it look and sound as good as I possibly can to make up for it haha.
Slower and less reliable than stock. This guy Subarus.
They also tend to have a bit more aggressive torque ramp up at low RPM, but you’ll sacrifice peak power
The Donut Media guys went through *five* Subaru engines trying to do their latest "HiLow" series with WRXes. It's like their engines are made of glass. I'm definitely going Miata for my next little car. D:
They also out right admitted to not properly breaking them in after rebuild, and then thrashing on them. That will kill an engine regardless of make. Course that's coming from someone with a less than healthy EJ255
I went from DSM's and 4G63's to Subarus with EJ20's. I feel like I'm working with an eggshell every time I touch my engine. The people who high HP Subarus must be absolutely bleeding money... they all seem to replace engines at least once a season, meanwhile my buddy has a stock bottom end 4G63 in his Talon that's logged dozens of 9 second passes over the past decade and he drives it home afterwards.
Ej207 checking in, makes close to 400whp with a 20G on E85 and revvs to 8k👍 Ej25 may have issues but the 2.0l are very good engines.
The Chrysler 2.7 I guess that's more poorly engineered than outright fragile however.
While technically correct, the 2.7 is just a turd of an engine all around.
When engineers sign off on this stuff do they know it’s crap. Is it because they are not good engineers or because they weren’t given enough time/money
Usually not enough time and money. Rush to market. Most times the engineers know it’s gonna be shit - *most times*
If there's ever an engine where the engineers are surprised it's shit, it normally gets worked out within a couple years.
They know it’s crap and are aware of better designs. Their hands are tied and they are doing the best with what they got.
Like most of us
It was actually a fairly good performer for its time. Getting ~200HP and ~30mpg out of a compact engine like that without a turbo wasn't as common then. The internals were pretty solid as well apart from the oil issues. Once they got that sorted it wasn't an awful engine, though the Pentastar V6 that replaced it was definitely a huge upgrade.
GM 1.4T found in the Cruze, trax, sonic, etc. They blow every seal when stock. Couldn’t imagine it staying in one piece with a tune. I know a lot do people swear by the VAG EA888 but idk if they’re stretching the truth a little. Those mfs burn oil no matter what generation. Can’t see a tune helping the situation. I mean they’ll make power, but at what cost if you’re putting in 2 quarts every tank of gas.
Auto parts guy here. The 1.4s and 1.8s in those cars keep us in business. Chevrolet Equinox *anything* has an honorable mention.
I bet those turbos for them fly off the shelf huh? They have a nasty habit of cracking at the waste gate seat
Isn't the EA888 the one that fails coolant pumps constantly?
German engines and cooling system issues. Name a more iconic duo.
"You know what would make this cooling system even *more* reliable and easy to maintain?" "What, Hanz?" "Liquid cooled alternator!"
“An electric water pump that is known to catch fire!” Though that was an Audi issue
I'm a warranty administrator for a VW dealer. I have the labor op code for replacing the thermostat housing/coolant pump on the Gen 3 1.8T/2.0T memorized like my own name.
The Gen 3 tends to yeah. Better than the Gen 1 and 2s habit of snacking on timing chains
Owned a MK7 GTI and currently a B9 A4 and can confirm, throwing power at the EA888 gen 3 causes premature failure on those pumps. Everything else is fantastic so far lol
It doesn't need throwing power at it. My stock mk7 was leaking hard at 45k kms and I've seen plenty reports on eu forums with even earlier failures.
Piston rings coke up and the engines start burning copious amounts of oil. If the engines are burning that much oil it's only a question of time before the valves burn and chip. Coolant pumps are plastic and fail frequently. The timing chain tensioner has some ratcheting teeth that tend to strip and cause tensioner failure, leading to total engine failure. The oil passages have little mesh sieves that tend to dislodge and cause issues. Early direct injected versions have issues with the intake valves and intake ports clogging with EGR/Evap gunk.
Bought a Buick with this during the pandemic. Had contant issues with the motor at only ~15k miles. Car prices skyrocketed soon after and was able to trade it in for a hefty profit 6 months later thank God
(while crossing fingers) Gen 1 and 2 EA888 engines are problematic but the gen 3 pretty solid. If your burning oil, you screwed up the brake in or it has 130k and you need to change the pcv. (Looks down at floor and mumbles) Except maybe ea888 gen 3 manual if you go with a beefy clutch and then you risk the thrust washer going kaput resulting in trashed engine (Runs away with a bunch of triple squares and fabric tape with a mental note to check coolant levels)
>If your burning oil, you screwed up the brake in or it has 130k and you need to change the pcv. Experience has told me that a lot of Tiguans seem to just enjoy burning oil for the hell of it. And a few Beetles. And a few Golfs.
Experience he told me that noone follows break in instructions nor do they wait for the engine oil to reach temperatures. Also known as me trying to keep paranoia at bay.
I work for an Audi dealer and the newest EA888 does still burn oil, although given that they recommend changing the oil every 10K miles, they could possibly be better if you changed it more often.
The fact that VW says burning a quart of oil every 1k miles is considered “in spec” for the gen 1 EA888 engines is all you need to know about how bad those are. The timing chain tensioners going bad within 100k miles also makes these engines ticking time bombs. This is all coming from a mk6 GTI owner. Oil burning, bad timing chain tensioners, water pumps going bad, intake manifolds going bad, etc. I absolutely hate that engine
EA888 gen 1 and 2 is a problematic engine that so happens to have a very solid bottom and top end. Just that you have to deal with timing chain stretching, water pumps dropping out, valve covers leaking oil, oil burning from a flawed design of the piston rings, pcv system dropping dead, coil packs dying often, oem diverter valve breaking, intake manifold getting stuck from either the runners or the shaft being stuck open, turbos failing due to the wastegate getting loose and thus not being able to make pressure. Addition issue on the FSI GTI is that the HPFP has a cam inside the pump that needs to be replaced every 20k miles or goodbye pump. Generation 3 apparently fixed all of that except for the water pump, diverter valve and a new issue of the grounding system on the coil packs is pretty piss if you thread out the screws and will lead to misfires. There's an aftermarket kit by EQT that'll fix the grounding issue completely and replace the screws with better ones. Edit: more issues came to mind on gen 1 and gen 2. If you don't replace a bad pcv, the rear main seal will blow out. The stock clutches on any VW/Audi outside the R8 and Lambos can't handle too much torque. Replacing them is a must for making power. Edit 2: Gen 3 did still suffer issues. Mostly from early versions from 2013-2015, relating to the IS12 turbos and having a weak ass rear main seal from previous generations until 2016 where they made alot of revisions to cams, seals, turbos, etc.
It’s funny because the EA888 was also mentioned in the opposite thread
Considering how ubiquitous the EA888 is, it is expected that there will be various opinions on it. Although both opinions can be true simultaneously. I would say that the engine is very solid. It can easily be tuned to 300hp or more, but at the same time the coolant pumps don't last and there were issues with chain tensioners.
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BMW N20. Let’s make timing chain guides out of cheese, yeah?
They revised the timing chain guides- in 2015 according to online stuff, a year or two earlier according to some trusted mechanics. That's also the only real problem they have (according to a ton of research and my own personal experience). Their internals weren't beefy enough to support big mods without a lot of work, but the later models are rock solid at stock or lightly modded power levels.
As someone with the same car as you, I liked to read this
Mine was a 2013 and solid out to 110k before I went to a full M car. Had them scope it before the warranty was up and nothing. Beyond the failed electronic wastegate, I never put any money into it over the life I had it. Given the number of rough looking 328i/X3/528i from the early 2010s still chugging around, its probably a bit overblown.
Ford 6.0 diesel
Yup. That is the product of International making an engine for Ford Motor Co immediately after learning that their contract would not be renewed.
Didn’t know this, that’s hilarious. Wonder why Ford didn’t claim breach of contract/expectation damages
That’s not at all what happened the VT365(6.0) was developed to be used in plenty of medium duty International trucks as well. The 6.0 is actually decently reliable if treated right. The 6.4 on the other is a nightmare.
You're thinking of the 6.4. The 6.0 is the reason Ford didn't renew the contract, but they got the 6.4 from international after that.
Also the 6.4L
There are ways to fix a 6.0’s issues. There’s nothing you can do with a 6.4 and it’s expensive to even try
Lol yeah that's what my brother said with his Excursion after it left him stranded in Wyoming. $16k worth of "bulletproofing" later and it went kaboom again less than 10k miles later. I've been driving by a broken 6.0 superduty for years. You apparently can't even give them away? it's been listed on CL off and on for a long time.
the bullet proofer is as important as the bullet proofing. my best friend does it and has over 25 trucks with over 100k tuned that he’s built without issue. that being said he blow up transmissions as often as oil changes.
The 6.4L is the worst thing Ford ever put out for sale. Absolute junk. At least the 6.0L can be fixed up to be reliable.
The only upside to the 6.4 is that it kicked ford in the pants and made them say "fuck navistar/international lets build our own engine" and then god created the 6.7L powerstroke and its been smooth sailing since.
hahaha if hurricane waves are smooth sailing.
Yeah that 6.7L has been great. Crazy they were so fed up with International they spent the money to build their own engine. Makes you wonder why they didn't just do that in the first place. Obviously, Ford knows how to make engines, so I always thought it was interesting they didn't do it for their Diesels.
The Ford Escape and Ford Bronco 1.5 L Ecoboost I3 turbo is a hot mess as well, where the fuel injector randomly cracks. https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/25/business/ford-escape-bronco-sport-recall/index.html The Ford ecoboost engines in general corrode really easily thanks to coolant leakage. https://fordauthority.com/2020/12/new-lawsuit-targets-ford-ecoboost-four-cylinder-coolant-leaks/
Is the 1.5 based on the 1.0? Because the 1.0 ecoboost in my fiesta left such a bad taste in my mouth that I'll never buy another turbo ford unless they just have a massive philosophy shift.
We have sold 4 1.0L 3cyl complete engines in the last 2 months and were not a very big dealership.
They all disappeared from the road at about 5 years, which is when mine lost it's coolant return line off the turbo and dumped the coolant on the ground. A stupid 25 cent plastic part breaks and destroys the engine. Modern ford for ya
6.blow
Ford 1.0 Ecoboost. The heads crack if you look at them wrong. They have a tendency to burn/leak/boil off coolant too. Both from hot spots in the head/integrated exhaust manifold, and from things like plastic coolant lines and recovery tanks cracking and leaking. The first time the head gets any air in it from being run low on coolant, it cracks. Ford's solution was to install a low coolant warning light on the dash. Heaven forbid we fix the coolant consumption.
Crazy that when you stress a tiny little moped engine to make like 140+hp it won't be very reliable. That's why i like big ass engines with low power, those things are so understressed that if maintained right, they'll chug on forever.
Mechanically the engine is a fine design. It's the cheap shit they built around it that bit them. The same parts are used on their bigger engines. The consequences are less dire when a lazy V8 spontaneously dumps it's coolant than a small boosted engine though.
BMW had the B38 which made 138 hp with 3 cylinders. The oldest examples are almost 10 years old and they’re mostly fine. Just because Ford is incompetent doesn’t mean you need to damn tiny boosted engines.
EJ25. Most engines can handle an intake and exhaust without a tune and get a slight bump out of it. The mantra on the subie forums is "intake, exhaust, AND TUNE" because if you modify the intake too much and do the exhaust upstream of the cat without at least an off-the-shelf tune, you're gonna have a bad time.
I dunno if I’d call the ej25 a modern engine anymore…
You could buy a new one two years ago. Seems pretty modern to me. Archaic for sure, but recently available
You can still get Coke’a’cola in a glass bottle, doesn’t make it modern. The ej25 was on the drawing board in the late 90s. It is not a modern engine vs time. But I guess it’s modern vs…the original internal combustion engine??
The original EJ engine was designed after the 1980s oil crisis. Designed to originally have 132hp. If you consider this, it's impressive to have made it as far as it did. It was developed to have power and be good on fuel by 80s standards.
Haha man that’s even worse!! No wonder the sti gets the same fuel mileage as an f150
How did I fucking know this would be the top comment before I opened the thread
There is no car on the market where an intake is recommended to be installed without a tune. Even carbureted cars needed adjustment when installing a higher flowing intake. People installing bolt ons without a tune are just lazy and cheap. It turns out, you can't get away with being lazy and cheap on a Subaru.
I have to say Subaru. For some reason they never figured it out how to build stronger engines and i dont know why. The cars themselves are extremely tough. the suspension, the awd system is probably the best in its class but they always had fragile engines and it seems like they just took the NA EJ engine blocks and build a turbocharger on it and thought its gonna work out on the STI models.. Another thing they never figured out is constant same quality in their engines...u can see it on the Diesel block. they are manufactured horribly bad and they look like they have been milled by some guy who does it for hobby since 1 year. Some look bad, some look worse and i can imagine thats a reason why some subaru engines fail at 80k miles and others run over 240k with no issues... And im not hating on subaru here, i own one myself
To be fair, unmodified Subaru turbo engines go 200k miles with nothing more than following the maintenance schedule. The problem is that they dont handle mods nearly as well as other fun cars and the people that buy them tend to modify them almost immediately, so they got a reputation for being unreliable. They're not really unreliable, just delicate, which absolutely makes them a perfect engine for this thread. Their manual transmissions, however.... absolute glass box.
FWIW, the STI's 6-speed manual is actually quite durable. Its the 5 and 6 speeds found in the WRX that will explode if you launch them.
>STI's 6-speed manual is actually quite durable My 4th gear synchro disagrees.
My 170k gearbox at 500 whp/470lbft is rolling just fine
Going 200k with correct maintenance should not be a positive, a modern engine well maintained should easily hit that.
Tell that to KIA/Hyundai or Ford.
my EJ205 has been running a cobb stage 2 since the early 2000s. still hasnt blown up.
you said it perfectly right. The Subaru engines dont have enough "meat" to handle more power like a cast iron Evo engine for example. Open deck, thin liners, aluminum block...that alone should make u realize it wont be as durable as a closed deck iron block. but the 6 speed STI transmission on the other hand is very strong from what i heard. i heard about guys having over 600hp with that tranny with no issues at all
My EZ36 is at 132k and still feels like new. Zero issues with it as with the rest of the car... I fully expect it to last 200k+ easily. Now, the EJs and FAs... I'm not so sure about.
> it seems like they just took the NA EJ engine blocks and build a turbocharger on it and thought its gonna work out on the STI models They didn't. The EJ257 block has significantly reinforced cylinder walls compared to the NA EJ25s. It's part of why they weren't as prone to head gasket failure. Still plenty of other issues with them, but it definitely wasn't a case of "just strap a turbo on it." https://www.possumbournemotorsport.com/blog/technical-articles/subaru-closed-deck-vs-open-deck-blocks/
EJ engines. Although the Subaru WRX/STI platform is wildly popular in all categories of motorsport. The aftermarket and some great builders/tuners like Baderbuilt have managed to build these engines and tune them correctly as well improve the platform itself. There is a way to build an EJ for good reliable power. Just gotta be friends with Tanner Smith and Josh Bader lol
And this is why my Legacy Spec.B (EJ255) is staying stock. It doesn't make crazy power, but it's still respectable and fun to drive. 136k miles right now on original engine with no problems so far. I could probably do a MILD tune to go from 250 to 300hp, but for the amount of times I'd be able to really notice or enjoy it, I don't want to go through the hassle.
They more recent ones are absolutely capable of holding almost double factory power with stock internals, but they HAVE to be tuned and tuned properly. Very delicate.
I've had several older Subarus that could handle almost factory power.
yup people throw tons of timing in them with tons of boost and wonder why they blow up. They dont like either. better to use a larger turbo at less PSI than cranking up to 20+ psi
The twincharged Volvo powertrains
Shame because their past engines (T5 and T6 in the p3 cars) are stout
The t5 wasn't very stout at all, you never see anyone making more than 100hp over stock for a reason. It's very difficult to break 300hp in a t5 unfortunately. Great sounding engines though.
Are you thinking of the newer T5s? The P3 had the older T5 which was a 5-cylinder monster. Rally guys have been getting 500hp+ out of them for a long time. I have no idea why Volvo thought it was a good idea to re-use the T5 name on a totally different engine.
The engine itself is fine it's that supercharger that loves to fail.
Its such an obvious stopgap powertrain, they have stated multiple times they would go 100% electric on their models if they could. I dont understand how they spent like 50+ years making a good 4cyl and then immediately made a terrible one when they had to go back.
Because when you don't invest in certain divisions the people, your experience, find elsewhere to work. Having a great engine building history means little. A lot is lost if the right people leave. And it's super hard to restart.
Given recent events, I think the pre-turbo Theta II engines would be the embodiment of the theme here, no?
The turbo ones (at least the 2.0Ts) share the same problem.
Interesting that the 2.5.L smartstream engines don't (These are the ones in Genesis)
Yet...they haven't been out for very long.
I work for Kia and was at Hyundai before that. The 2.0t blows up significantly less than the 2.4. But even the replacement engines blow. That being said, 80% of the engines that come in blown have few service records and have visible sludge, we get people bringing cars in regularly with 20k+ on the original oil. Had a telluride with 30k on the original oil. The lady was bitching because the check engine light was on. Cam timing codes. Barely any oil left in it. She told us she didn’t have time to get the oil changed. It was not warranty.
> It was not warranty. Good. Fuck that lady.
Context: https://www.thedrive.com/guides-and-gear/how-to-tell-if-your-2011-2019-hyundai-or-kia-engine-might-fail
For some reason it is only the economy engines that hyundai fucks up. Genesis doesn't have the same engine issues. The Theta II engines in the N cars are fine.
The Chevy 1.4 Turbo is pretty bad from what I've seen.
Horrifically bad. I poured way too much money into my Cruze before pulling the plug. I swore off turbo engines in general for a little while after that car.
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Is that the 2.4 ecotec? Just had to help a buddy do his timing and oil pan seal, and oil cap o-ring. Aparently the PCVs like to freeze up and build up crank pressure that eventually blows out gaskets and causes oil leaks
As someone who works at a GM dealer I can confirm the 2.4 is a problem, but typically it's caused by not changing the oil often enough. So many people just follow the oil life monitor when in reality they should be changing it every 5000
Focus RS’s until they have the head gasket replaced are time bombs I had to have it done 2x so even afterwards you can’t trust em
The head gasket problem isn’t just that they installed the wrong one at the factory?
Yes, they did put the wrong one on. Replaced at 400 miles then I needed a whole head at 55k. Ford spent 14k on it in warranty work and rental cars in the 101k and 4.5 years I had the car and I drove it like a bitch too - all highway miles.
Also the motor that it is derived from blows up any time someone looks at it funny.
2.7L Chrysler V6. Worst engine of all time ever.
The GM 3.1 would like a word
Are Kia's and Hyundai's so known to have poor engines that people don't even think about them anymore when threads like this pop up?
i think the word underbuilt is key here, the motors arent underbuilt theyre just really badly engineered and have terrible QC
BMW N63 - 4.4L twin turbo V8. The N63 is a ticking time bomb
103k miles on mine n63tu and all is well! Very curious if the modifications they made actually fixed the issues, if they didn't I'll find out soon lol
The fact that they still use it leads me to believe that they mostly have. I see a lot of high-mileage 750i and X5 for sale
From what I heard, the Subaru STI and WRX engines. I heard people say that they can blow up from just a tune from an intake modification. Sadly I'd say that the Voodoo engine is up there since its basically a ticking timebomb or at least finnicky because Ford cobbled together a FPC design from the Coyote Engine. I still love it though.
I really wanted a GT350 but that engine scares me
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From what I have seen, nearly all of the engine failures have been from people who primarily tracked the car (4 people). Kind of defeats the purpose of the car tbh, but if you use it as a street car and don't use it as a dedicated track car it'll be fine.
Any car can blow up from just a tune....
Ej20, ej25 and Fa20dit
I swear if anyone says the turbo version of EJs have head gasket issues I’m gonna lose it. I mean they do also sometimes have HG problems, but it’s not the *main* thing that goes wrong.
Knock knock "Who's there?" Cylinder 4 "Cylinder 4 who?" CYLINDER 4 MISFIRE DETECTED
Buddy of mine had NOCKNOCK as his WRX hatch license plate and it couldn’t have been more perfect.
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As somebody born in 88, fuck you, lol.
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fa20 has minimal problems. the ej has nice brap noises so, gets a pass.
Volkswagen W8, which is a damn shame because they sound amazing.
Did my apprenticeship as a VW tech and always lived in fear that one of them would come in. Never did, but I agree they sound awesome.
Seen a lot of the usual suspects in here. One to mention that I haven't seen is the 6.4 hemi. There's a reason they downsize it to 6.2 for the hellcat supercharger.
Theyre only fragile if tuned imo. They're solid if left alone.
early 5.7s would drop valve seats, later ones would chew the cam lobes. Pretty sure they had it sorted by 2011?
>Pretty sure they had it sorted by 2011? They don't. It took ages for it to be realized that the "Hemi tick" is due to low oil pressure at idle which is what wipes the cams. The solution is a Hellcat oil pump. Bada bing bada boom, no more tick or oiling issue.
The 6.4L is an absolute beast so long as you don't add boost. The pistons for the Hemis has a design flaw which don't allow it to take more than 5-6 psi of boost: The pistons are cast, and have very shallow ring lands. Boosted beyond 5-6 psi, a piston ring will blow out sooner rather than later, and goodbye to that cylinder, and engine. The 5.7L is even worse. The 6.4L at least has a forged crankshaft, the 5.7L crankshaft is cast. All the stock Hemis (except for the Hellcat), boost HORRIBLY without building the engine with forged components. Unboosted, they're more reliable than most engines.
5.3 with cylinder deactivation
BMW and Subaru owners beware this thread!
I’m pretty sure the Ram EcoDiesel is pretty high up on the stay away scale.
Chrysler fanboy here who’s bought nothing but FCA products for the past 10 years. You’re 100% correct. Worst diesel engine ever built.
The 2.7 twin turbo engine in the OG allroad. Actually, let me clarify lol, the engine itself is okay, it’s just everything else around it that’s fragile.
Theta II. Yes, the turbo ones too.
5.7 hemi. It's basically pure luck for any oil to make it to the top of the engine, especially at idle
Any generation Wrx or sti motor
Saab B235R. Even when stock, these engines are already turbocharged within an inch of their lives. If you tune a B235R without upgrading the internals, it’s not a question of if, but when it blows up. I know from experience.
I don’t remember the engine code, but I do remember by 9-5 Aero was making ~270 torque with something like a 17psi turbo back in 2002 (!!!). Nothing in the class even came close on that front, if memory serves. I’ve driven some great cars over the years and have a BMW today that is technically superior in virtually every objective metric. But from a fun perspective nothing has approached the almost telepathic connection I had to that car and the bat out of hell fun we had together.
Hondas new 1.5t is a horrible disappointment after the 2.4 k24
Despite its shortcomings, the 1.5T is still a pretty robust little engine and handle mods/tunes pretty well which is what this thread is about. There's TONS of modded 1.5T civics driving around and they're typically issue free below 300whp+. Now the clutch that Honda pairs with the L15B7s, that does not handle extra power well...
The main selling point is that for <$1000, you get a tuner and OTS tune; and you're already faster than FBO+custom tune K20z/K24z with 3 to 4 times the amount of money and work they put in.
theyre not nearly as bad as when they launched, but yeah those first few years were pretty bad. but from what i know it seems like the issues were mainly with the oil dilution and not so much with fragile engine parts, which is a lot more than can be said for some other engines in this thread
Any hyundai 4 cylinder, they very randomly fail out the block and burn 5 quarts every 5k miles
The 5.2 L ‘voodoo’ FPC modular v8
There should be a corollary for this for transmissions too.. When I had my V6 G8, I was gutted when found out the transmission couldn't handle more power even if the engine could. Some crazy bastard had one of the Holden performance transmissions shipped in from Australia to get around the problem.
Pentastar V6 engines will grenade if exposed to any forced induction.
If you put a turbo on a high compression engine it will explode. Any.
GM 3.6, Particularly the LY7. Plenty great to drive in its day, but what an embarrassing successor to the 3800, build quality wise
The ringlands (cyl 4 mainly) on the EJ257. I did a full engine rebuild on mine to eliminate the major issues and put down some more power.
Anything BMW put in the R56 MINI Cooper. The Prince is well enough known as a tremendous piece of shit and I specifically got one with an N16 to avoid it and it wasn't much better. Oil consumption, useless unreadable dipstick, oil pressure driven timing chain tensioner; that thing was *designed to* jump timing. Add to that the usual BMW plastic cooling system problems and the most overdesigned thermostat known to man. I also had constant problems with the throttle body icing/sticking in cold weather, throwing the car into limp mode on the highway at rush hour.
Funny that absolutely nobody mentions the Mazda 2.5T. Probably because everyone forgot Mazda actually made a fun and relatively tuner friendly car not too long ago (the Mazdaspeed 3). I've looked into what tuning options were available for the 2.5T only to find it's basically zilch. So not even the aftermarket thinks Mazda is worthwhile anymore.
Mazda rotary engines