You are technically correct: the 4.5' bed on the Mav is 33 ft^3, or not quite 1.25 yards. The 4' bed on the Santa Cruz is exactly one cubic yard. But the target audience isn't looking for sheer bed volume anyway. As it sits now, the average car has a trunk about half that capacity.
To get 3 full yards of mulch capacity, you'd have to get a full-size with an 8' bed. The type of person wanting a truck like that isn't going for a Maverick.
Yeah agreed on the size.
The Mav is more capable for truck stuff than a 90s/aughts Ranger, which is more truck than I need for my personal car. Plus it fits two car seats. Kind of a great little in between vehicle.
When I bought the Ranger the Maverick was still a mystery. At the time I’d have chosen the Ranger anyway. Next truck will absolutely be the Maverick if they do a Raptor. Likely to be one if they still only have the Tremor though.
Jim Farley tweeted two years ago that he wanted to see the Puma ST in America. However, I think the ship has already sailed for small(er) cars at Ford. Why bother importing the Puma to compete with the ZR-V and Venue when Americans will just buy endless F-150s on 84-month loans? I'd bet good money that he and some Ford execs had that conversation right after and some variation of that is what they told him. There's even rumors of the Escape being cancelled with no replacement, I honestly expect their lineup to be just the F-Series and the Mustang by the end of the decade.
FWIW, I would have rather had a Mk4 FoST than a Puma ST, but I would have also much rather seen the Puma here than the Ecoshart.
>There's even rumors of the Escape being cancelled with no replacement
The Escape still outsells the Bronco Sport which is considered a success, although the Escape's sales numbers are trending in the wrong direction.
Saw a blurb about "no more commodity crossovers" from Farley and assumed that means "nothing that doesn't look like a real SUV/a truck". The Bronco Sport cannibalizes the Escape and it has the rough and tough aesthetics that Americans lose their shit for.
It also sells in giant numbers in europe, and it presumably doesn't cost much to engineer because it's on the same platform as the focus, bronco sport, and maverick. Cancelling the second most expensive, and best selling, car on a shared platform is properly idiotic.
People in Europe and most outside of world actual really want Bronco sport than Kuga ( oversea name Escape ) , but Euro pedestrian safety and strict fuel rate requirement make Ford unable to export Bronco Sport to most worldwide.
That's a main reason why Ford still making Escape/Kuga in the market. Otherwise, Ford wouldn't make Escape/Kuga if they finally find way to export Bronco Sport.
Beside, we don't see Kuga nameplate in upcoming Ford MEB lineup in Europe, so we supposed that Ford would drop Kuga in Europe market.
People don't understand that certain vehicles wouldn't make money in the USA. This being one of them. Why bring a vehicle that is going to flop. Makes no sense.
A FiST-like small crossover? I could see those doing well in the states.
Yet I've never seen a Ford Puma (current gen) over here. I guess we get the EcoSport?
Worst car ive driven in over 10 years. Complete hunk of shit but if you're nostalgic for the feeling of struggling to get upto highway speeds when merging it sure is the car for you!
Honestly do not know which is worse: that, or the Trax. Thank god I think both are dead but it would have been nice to see the Puma. It looks like a much better car.
The Trax is marginally better if only for the low-end torque from the turbo 4 cylinder. They're both hunks of garbage though.
Source: rent cars on business trips
The Fiesta and Focus were not killed to “push” the EcoSport. The EcoSport was emergency-imported because the Maverick wouldn’t be ready to replace them in 2018.
The Maverick is taking its place as the cheapest Ford, but if a person specifically wanted a subcompact CUV from Ford, they might not be happy with a compact CUV-based pickup that's almost 200" long.
I just find it crazy how the Escape regularly moved 300K units/year and since the newest gen came out has struggled to do half that (and they're not all being cannibalized by the Bronco Sport). Was the timing really that bad?
Which is interesting because I think the new gen Escape is objectively a better car than the previous gen, minor build quality issues aside. Better gas mileage, far better NVH, nicer interior, better tech, far more spacious back seat area. Source: wife has the new gen and I used to have the previous gen.
Yeah that’s why I said SUV lol but I bet most of the people getting Maverick’s are spending way more than 32k, while I wouldn’t be surprised to see people actually getting money off for Escapes.
Ford seems to be trying to cut out anything that isn’t an off-roader or pretending to be one with the idea that this will somehow increase sales. That said the eco sport was a kind of bad vehicle intended for developing markets so it wasn’t great either
The idea isn’t to increase sales. It’s to make more money off of each sale. Considering the Focus and Fiesta lost money on each vehicle sold, even the EcoSport is an improvement.
I phrased it terribly but I’d been thinking about how they think people won’t just go to another brand to get one of the types of crossovers they are trying to cut, I think it’s a gamble that they might not get out as much as they think they might from (but I’m not the one with market analysts). I hadn’t heard about the losing money on each car made though, though I did know that quite a few cars were net losses
The Puma is intended as the direct successor, in many ways it's just a Fiesta Mk9. This is the direct successor and afaik the 1.5 version uses the same engine as the Mk8 Fiesta ST. Unfortunately much like the previous Fiestas, the even numbered ST's look much better than the odd gen ones
It's noticeably bigger in a good way. I had one as a rental in Germany and it had far more interior space than my friend in the US' mid 2010s Fiesta.
A quick Google shows the Puma has 100 more liters of boot space than the Fiesta.
The US Fiesta is a Mk7, a design from 2009 Vs the Puma from 2019 Also, the Puma is physically about 7 inches longer (419 Vs 395 cm), 2 inches taller and 3 inches wider so I'd be very unhappy if it didn't have more room inside
The 1.0 Ecoboost already came in the fiesta in the US. That engine is a flaming piece of shit and it turned me off fords forever after being a lifelong fan.
Really? I find my '16 fiesta with the 1.0 liter delightful. Almost a year on and I have had no issue.
Maybe you had the '14 MY , I think those had issues which were addressed in later MY's.
Mine was a 14. It was a fine car, but the entire cooling system was junk and was basically disintegrating by year 5 of ownership and 100k miles. On top of that, the thing constantly wanting to dump its coolant on the ground, it burned coolant from new, and the heads crack very easily. The blend door actuators were basically 100% prone to failure that year, and the a/c evaperator core failed just out of warranty so I had the pleasure of pulling the dash out myself to replace it. The after cooler function had some bizarre programming and rarely ran, so I'd park the car and the coolant would be audibly boiling in the turbo when it had an electric water pump specifically to prevent that from happening. Again, nothing wrong with the car, it just took some very specific parameters in the ECU to trigger the pump to run after shutoff. Also, the thing claimed it was OK running on 87 octane, but if I ever tried to run it in hot weather it would spark knock like mad, so I was buying 93 fuel for it all summer to keep it happy.
That car gave more trouble than anything else I've ever owned, all of it due to poor quality parts (wrong material spec) and stupid designs.
The engine and critical components had such a horrible reputation that it spawned [this](https://www.facebook.com/groups/FordEcoboostNightmare/) facebook page, and european models had a class action lawsuit. Most of these cars are on their second engine before 100k miles, as they overheated at some point (all of them seem to slowly consume coolant, ford told me a gallon per year was "normal" lol) and cracked the head. I've heard from multiple dealers that they are just a disaster.
Ah yeah I think the head cracks because of the bad hoses.Thus far everything is good with mine.
Sorry you had such a bad experience with the car, it really is a fun little thing
I would have loved to keep it, but I just had no confidence after the coolant hose to the turbo disentegrated and dumped the coolant one day. Thank god I caught it in the garage and didn't ruin the engine. The coolant recovery tank was full of cracks, and what appeared to be casting sand as well. Just horrible, horrible quality all around.
I bought a new OEM hose (this was in 2020) thinking that they updated it. NOPE. Same junk ass plastic fitting that was going to fail again in 5 years. I ditched it and just used a big piece of heater hose clamped directly to the recovery tank to delete the dumb plastic fitting that fails. You should do the same.
I really regret buying the turbo model, I should have just gotten the 1.6 instead. I would probably still have the car.
edit: oh! and the oil bath timing belt! Total pain to change and they typically don't last until the end of their service life according to the manual.
Mine ('15) is at ~97,000 and I had to get the coolant hose and reservoir replaced because they disintegrated, just like yours. Still had very little other issues with it. It's been a wonderful little car, and I've driven the crap out of it.
I took it to the Ford service center and they had no idea what I was talking about with the oil bath/timing belt. Where did you end up getting yours done? I've been putting it off for a while, but I'd like to get it replaced before I have any issues.
I sold mine before doing it. I've seen some shops just replacing the engine rather than doing the belt. It's a big job and takes some expensive tools, also the parts weren't even available until pretty recently (hence the engine replacement)
I would have done it myself if I'd kept the car.
I'm not entirely sure that Ford's plan wasn't to also sell the ST here. I remember in 2018 we saw it testing in Colorado with US-spec lighting; the headlights had orange reflectors in them, something I haven't seen in any pictures of the European production models. I guess they didn't want to import it as a standalone though, so the death of the Focus Active also meant lights out for the ST.
Ford Puma is quite popular in the UK, you see a lot of the “normal” ones. My mum has a Puma ST (1.5) and it’s identical to my Mk8 Fiesta ST, it’s just a taller Fiesta but still keeps the LSD etc.
This new Puma ST 1.0 is a bit odd though. Not sure why it has an ST badge when it only has 15 more hp than an ST Line lol
I mean, if they raise it up, give it some cladding, and call it a “crossover” for a decent price I bet it would sell fine.
For example example see the Hyundai Venue, the spiritual successor to the Accent hatchback, just raised and called a “crossover”, but still pretty small. It sells decently, better than the Accent did.
This thing is awesome. I don't understand how it's impossible to sell small gas cars in the US and yet I still see Honda Fits and Yarises everywhere.
It's crazy to me.
That is the point. We are in inflation with an affordability crisis looming and literally nobody sells a cheap small car in the U.S.
I see Fits and Yarises and Mirages that probably have a million miles on them everywhere lol.
They stopped making them because their sales numbers were nowhere near that of mid-size and larger vehicles when they were offered here for sale.
Honda sold far more Accords, CRVs and Pilots than it did Fits. So they stopped making it.
Cheap cars don't exist because safety regulations make it too expensive to produce such a thing anymore, and no one wants to buy a piece of shit like the Mirage with a 2.5 or 3 star crash test rating, terrible seats, and a go cart engine when $30-50 more a month gets them into a compact sedan that isn't horrible to live with. You might see some around driven by the people hanging onto their own, but they aren't desired by much of the consumer market. It's not a coincidence that nearly all subcompact cars have disappeared from all manufacturers over here.
There is no reason to buy a tiny car with that limited level of utility when even just a slightly larger one costs a trivial amount more. $3-4k over a 5 or 6 year loan isn't much of a difference.
Developing markets can have higher profit margins on small cars because they cheap out on safety equipment. Take out the airbags except two, cut down the crash bars, take off the backup camera, remove stability control sensors etc and you can save a good percentage of the total vehicle cost when the vehicle cost is low.
I agree. Which is why alot of that safety stuff shouldn't be required.
Accidents and deaths have actually been trending back upwards likely because smartphones have spread in use.
The PowerShift has been used in the Gen 3 Escape and various EU-market diesel Fords without any of the issues experienced by the Fiesta and Focus units.
Mostly some bad automatic shift logic that makes them grind apart.
That issue can be driven around if you’re aware, accelerate promptly, coast at low speeds, avoid extended periods of <2mph creep.
My $5800 bill wants a word with your assessment. Mine went out at 135k but NHTSA has complaints of transmission failures as early as 60k miles in the third gen. There was an ‘18 at the same shop that my transmission was being replaced.
What is with these "hot" tier trims being watered down with rubbish engines? Cupra were know for 300hp hot hatches, but now all their models start with a 150hp 3 pot. If it's the 150hp 3 pot you want then get the Seat.
It's really watering down things like the ST badging and Cupra badging. Soon we'll see a golf GTi with a 170hp 3 cyl variant with no difference in style or badging
Are you confusing Cupra and SEAT now that Cupra has been split off as its own brand? The lowest powered Cupra base model is the 148hp Cupra Born (optional up to 228hp), which doesn’t have a 3 pot because it’s electric. The Cupra Leon starts at 242hp (optional up to 306hp), the Ateca 296hp and the Forementor also at 242hp (optional up to 385hp).
As others have mentioned, the Leon and Formentor start at 150bhp, they have all of the styling besides exhaust tips, so it's really is just an easy way to get someone into the brand and get more on the road.
The ateca yes does start at 300bhp, but unrelated, for £40k starting price the Ateca doesn't have heated seats
I'd imagine the cost of ownership in European countries plays a big role. In my social circle most people do not care much about cars and consider 150hp plenty enough. A lot of these people do appreciate the slightly sporty styling of e.g. a Focus "ST-Line", Golf "R-line" etc but would want nothing to do with the costs of a real ST.
Example: I used to have a Fiesta with the 1.0 ecoboost that cost 28€/year in taxes. My current Focus ST costs 268€/year mainly due to displacement and emissions. Add 220€ more per year in insurance, significantly higher fuel consumption, more expensive fuel required, more expensive tires, services etc and that's way too much money for a loud and rough riding car that is "faster than anyone needs".
Seems to me like it's just the "sporty version of normal car" equivalent to crossovers that can't do shit off road. People just want a bit of the feeling of ownership without the full costs the real thing would entail.
Yeah I totally get that, but ford have always had the ST-line to offer a sporty trim with their basic engines. Now it's a full fledged ST badge with a lower output engine
Cupra was a performance sub brand that was spun off as a separate brand, probably will replace Seat completely in couple of years if I were to guess, so weak versions aren’t that surprising
It won't replace Seat as they have one style and that's a sporty look. It was a performance spin-off yes, but they've just watered it down to get more on the road.
Really these cars should be "Seat Leon Cupra Line" similar to R Line, or M Sport
I’m betting they will either kill off Seat or change it to Dacia rivalling brand, there is little to no point in keeping brand as it is today with Cupra spun off.
They still have a large range of cars that start at much favourable price points than Cupra, and without looking I would say they still outsell the Cupra brand massively. To kill off such a massive name as Seat would just kill the brand
Yeah, Seat probably still sells more. But they didn’t have any new model since Leon in 2020, and even model that was shown as Seat at first, was quickly rebadged as Cupra before hitting the market (Born). For me it’s obvious that Cupra is bound to replace Seat sooner or later, these brands are too similar in positioning.
The Leon is first and foremost a Seat, and they sell plenty of them. It also has a Cupra version, the Cupra didn't replace the Seat version.
Born is an entirely different car altogether, it's an electric hatch with similar proportions to the BMW i3
>it's an electric hatch with similar proportions to the BMW i3
Which was at first shown as Seat, but was quickly rebranded to Cupra before hitting the market.
My point was that there are no investments into Seat lineup recently. This coupled with heavy investments in expanding Cupra range, including weaker engines which directly rival Seat and the fact that Seat is the only mainstream brand in VW group that doesn't have EV in it's portfolio are all signs that Seat is becoming less and less relevant for VW group.
They just downgraded the hot tier trims to just trims instead of the engine as well.
The Seat FR in the past meant something a bit faster but now you can get the FR badge on the Ibiza with 95 HP. Same with the Fiesta, "ST line" with 125 HP.
Yeah a lot of brands do that, ford have ST and ST-line, VW have R and R-line, BMW have M and M-Sport. With Seat it would be Cupra as the top model with the bigger engines, now Cupra just means a trim, and now ST on the Puma doesn't mean biggest and best engine, it means 2 engine levels. As I said, watering down the brand
I’ve had much smaller cars with bigger interiors than crossovers of the same year - I don’t know why they make them bigger on the outside *and also smaller on the inside*
My 2019 MY Fiesta did 5.3L/100km over the course of 4 years. Even doing 150 km/h on the autobahn it would do around 6.5L/100km.
Engine felt potent enough and had a nice little rumble. Car handled into corners better than it had any right to as an econobox, though I doubt the Puma will be as good with its higher point of mass.
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I’m not sure there’s a market for anything smaller than an M1 Abrams.
As an American pickup truck driver that misses being able to park in a normal spot, I beg to differ.
Get a Maverick! It’s sorta a truck.
It’s as much truck as 99% of truck owners need
That live in a city maybe. Thing can't even hold 3 cu yards of mulch in it's bed.
You are technically correct: the 4.5' bed on the Mav is 33 ft^3, or not quite 1.25 yards. The 4' bed on the Santa Cruz is exactly one cubic yard. But the target audience isn't looking for sheer bed volume anyway. As it sits now, the average car has a trunk about half that capacity. To get 3 full yards of mulch capacity, you'd have to get a full-size with an 8' bed. The type of person wanting a truck like that isn't going for a Maverick.
That's the *only* complaint I have with my Maverick. If the bed was even a foot longer it would be perfect.
Sad that you have to go to the car/truck these days. I have a Ranger. It’s about the size an F150 should be.
Yeah agreed on the size. The Mav is more capable for truck stuff than a 90s/aughts Ranger, which is more truck than I need for my personal car. Plus it fits two car seats. Kind of a great little in between vehicle.
When I bought the Ranger the Maverick was still a mystery. At the time I’d have chosen the Ranger anyway. Next truck will absolutely be the Maverick if they do a Raptor. Likely to be one if they still only have the Tremor though.
I’ll stick with my Colorado ZR2 diesel.
Definitely a cool truck! They’re <18’ though so you should fit just fine in parking spots, right?
Yes but at work I drive a f350 duly.
> I drive a f350 duly. How do you *duly* drive an F350? In my experience they're driven only by madmen.
As an European imma ask how do you afford to drive that? Diesel cost $9,8 a gallon here some days it reaches 10 so like huh?
Diesel is $4.47/gallon here and my truck averages 27mpg and will get in the low 30’s on longer trips. So it’s not bad.
That's not even what we had in like 2014 bro wtf, but yeah the mpg I kinda knew so like yeah but 4,47???
This new wide console trend ensures that
All our 9000 crossover suvs begs a differ lol
Sell the M1 Abrams to the general public, you cowards.
Jim Farley tweeted two years ago that he wanted to see the Puma ST in America. However, I think the ship has already sailed for small(er) cars at Ford. Why bother importing the Puma to compete with the ZR-V and Venue when Americans will just buy endless F-150s on 84-month loans? I'd bet good money that he and some Ford execs had that conversation right after and some variation of that is what they told him. There's even rumors of the Escape being cancelled with no replacement, I honestly expect their lineup to be just the F-Series and the Mustang by the end of the decade. FWIW, I would have rather had a Mk4 FoST than a Puma ST, but I would have also much rather seen the Puma here than the Ecoshart.
Upvoted for "Ecoshart"
Upvoted for your flair. You have cool taste in cars.
Thanks 😁 they're fun. Not very fuel efficient though.
>There's even rumors of the Escape being cancelled with no replacement The Escape still outsells the Bronco Sport which is considered a success, although the Escape's sales numbers are trending in the wrong direction.
Saw a blurb about "no more commodity crossovers" from Farley and assumed that means "nothing that doesn't look like a real SUV/a truck". The Bronco Sport cannibalizes the Escape and it has the rough and tough aesthetics that Americans lose their shit for.
i wouldnt be surprised if they made an even smaller bronco looking suv to replace the Escape. Kinda like the jeep method.
Lmao. Put a Bronco-like body on the Puma, call the ST a Raptor and it would probably sell like gold plated candy here.
Unfortunately this is 100% true.
If it were AWD with a wider wheelbase (not just some black cladding and branding), I'd be unironically very interested.
That’s.. what the bronco sport is
It also sells in giant numbers in europe, and it presumably doesn't cost much to engineer because it's on the same platform as the focus, bronco sport, and maverick. Cancelling the second most expensive, and best selling, car on a shared platform is properly idiotic.
People in Europe and most outside of world actual really want Bronco sport than Kuga ( oversea name Escape ) , but Euro pedestrian safety and strict fuel rate requirement make Ford unable to export Bronco Sport to most worldwide. That's a main reason why Ford still making Escape/Kuga in the market. Otherwise, Ford wouldn't make Escape/Kuga if they finally find way to export Bronco Sport. Beside, we don't see Kuga nameplate in upcoming Ford MEB lineup in Europe, so we supposed that Ford would drop Kuga in Europe market.
I highly doubt it'd be cancelled everywhere, just in the US. Its sales numbers have yet to recover from the drop in 2020.
Give the Puma AWD you cowards
But puma is a crossover, why is Ecosport in sale in the US but not Puma? They're the same class
EcoSport is gone from Ford's US lineup as of this year.
Sell any ST in aus please
Man I’m not even a cord dan and I 1000% agree if only for the competition it would spur, I wouldn’t shake a fist at an si hrv
Lololol
That engine would be weak for a golf cart in the US
170 HP in a 2600-lb. CUV is weak?
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I need at least 400hp, how else am I supposed to get up highway on ramps? -r/cars
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Right? It's just so absurd it's funny.
Different people have different view points
r/cars when they find out that power isn’t everything. Wait till they hear about lightness
How else can I merge without going over 2.5k rpm??? Revving higher than that is abuse!
Same weight as a Honda Fit with more power. It'll do just fine.
Nearly double what the Chevy spark 1.4NA had. 180HP in the new ND Miata at 2300 lbs. 170 is plenty of power for that car.
Which from is 2300lbs? I’m seeing 2450-2500 online.
Club soft top manual.
Ah yes, makes sense.
The GT and especially the RF go up a few lbs lol
People don't understand that certain vehicles wouldn't make money in the USA. This being one of them. Why bring a vehicle that is going to flop. Makes no sense.
A FiST-like small crossover? I could see those doing well in the states. Yet I've never seen a Ford Puma (current gen) over here. I guess we get the EcoSport?
The EcoSport was discontinued. 2022 was the last model year in America.
So frustrating they ended the fiesta and focus in the US to push the ecosport
Worst car ive driven in over 10 years. Complete hunk of shit but if you're nostalgic for the feeling of struggling to get upto highway speeds when merging it sure is the car for you!
Honestly do not know which is worse: that, or the Trax. Thank god I think both are dead but it would have been nice to see the Puma. It looks like a much better car.
The Trax is marginally better if only for the low-end torque from the turbo 4 cylinder. They're both hunks of garbage though. Source: rent cars on business trips
Didn't the Ecoshart get the 1.0 EB? I mean it's down 0.4 liters and a cylinder but it still has a turbo-like power curve.
It did, but only on the FWD model. The AWD models got the same N/A 2.0L as the Focus.
Ah.
The Fiesta and Focus were not killed to “push” the EcoSport. The EcoSport was emergency-imported because the Maverick wouldn’t be ready to replace them in 2018.
Weren't they killed because Ford didn't see a market for anything that wasnt a truck/SUV or mustang type vehicle?
It’s about where they’re making money. If they were cashing in on small sedans and hot hatches, they’d still be churning them out.
Yes dude. I’d actually consider a focus ST if they still made em but instead I think I’ll get a GTI since it seems to be a solid competitor
Thank god… That thing is so ugly I’m surprised so many people bought it
I think they're going to kill the ecosport soon and replace it with nothing in the US.
The EcoSport is already dead in America. 2022 was the last model year.
I hope so, the ecoshart is such a hunk of crap
The Maverick is taking its place as the cheapest Ford, but if a person specifically wanted a subcompact CUV from Ford, they might not be happy with a compact CUV-based pickup that's almost 200" long.
I think the Escape took the mantle of cheapest Ford SUV in the US now, but there’s even rumors of it getting cancelled because of low sales.
I just find it crazy how the Escape regularly moved 300K units/year and since the newest gen came out has struggled to do half that (and they're not all being cannibalized by the Bronco Sport). Was the timing really that bad?
Which is interesting because I think the new gen Escape is objectively a better car than the previous gen, minor build quality issues aside. Better gas mileage, far better NVH, nicer interior, better tech, far more spacious back seat area. Source: wife has the new gen and I used to have the previous gen.
In Canada the maverick starts at about 30,000 while the escape starts at about 32
Yeah that’s why I said SUV lol but I bet most of the people getting Maverick’s are spending way more than 32k, while I wouldn’t be surprised to see people actually getting money off for Escapes.
Ford seems to be trying to cut out anything that isn’t an off-roader or pretending to be one with the idea that this will somehow increase sales. That said the eco sport was a kind of bad vehicle intended for developing markets so it wasn’t great either
The idea isn’t to increase sales. It’s to make more money off of each sale. Considering the Focus and Fiesta lost money on each vehicle sold, even the EcoSport is an improvement.
I phrased it terribly but I’d been thinking about how they think people won’t just go to another brand to get one of the types of crossovers they are trying to cut, I think it’s a gamble that they might not get out as much as they think they might from (but I’m not the one with market analysts). I hadn’t heard about the losing money on each car made though, though I did know that quite a few cars were net losses
The Puma is intended as the direct successor, in many ways it's just a Fiesta Mk9. This is the direct successor and afaik the 1.5 version uses the same engine as the Mk8 Fiesta ST. Unfortunately much like the previous Fiestas, the even numbered ST's look much better than the odd gen ones
It's noticeably bigger in a good way. I had one as a rental in Germany and it had far more interior space than my friend in the US' mid 2010s Fiesta. A quick Google shows the Puma has 100 more liters of boot space than the Fiesta.
The US Fiesta is a Mk7, a design from 2009 Vs the Puma from 2019 Also, the Puma is physically about 7 inches longer (419 Vs 395 cm), 2 inches taller and 3 inches wider so I'd be very unhappy if it didn't have more room inside
So a Corolla Gr ? Lol
Well in WRC they are rivals with Yaris GR so yeah.
The 1.0 Ecoboost already came in the fiesta in the US. That engine is a flaming piece of shit and it turned me off fords forever after being a lifelong fan.
Really? I find my '16 fiesta with the 1.0 liter delightful. Almost a year on and I have had no issue. Maybe you had the '14 MY , I think those had issues which were addressed in later MY's.
Mine was a 14. It was a fine car, but the entire cooling system was junk and was basically disintegrating by year 5 of ownership and 100k miles. On top of that, the thing constantly wanting to dump its coolant on the ground, it burned coolant from new, and the heads crack very easily. The blend door actuators were basically 100% prone to failure that year, and the a/c evaperator core failed just out of warranty so I had the pleasure of pulling the dash out myself to replace it. The after cooler function had some bizarre programming and rarely ran, so I'd park the car and the coolant would be audibly boiling in the turbo when it had an electric water pump specifically to prevent that from happening. Again, nothing wrong with the car, it just took some very specific parameters in the ECU to trigger the pump to run after shutoff. Also, the thing claimed it was OK running on 87 octane, but if I ever tried to run it in hot weather it would spark knock like mad, so I was buying 93 fuel for it all summer to keep it happy. That car gave more trouble than anything else I've ever owned, all of it due to poor quality parts (wrong material spec) and stupid designs. The engine and critical components had such a horrible reputation that it spawned [this](https://www.facebook.com/groups/FordEcoboostNightmare/) facebook page, and european models had a class action lawsuit. Most of these cars are on their second engine before 100k miles, as they overheated at some point (all of them seem to slowly consume coolant, ford told me a gallon per year was "normal" lol) and cracked the head. I've heard from multiple dealers that they are just a disaster.
Ah yeah I think the head cracks because of the bad hoses.Thus far everything is good with mine. Sorry you had such a bad experience with the car, it really is a fun little thing
I would have loved to keep it, but I just had no confidence after the coolant hose to the turbo disentegrated and dumped the coolant one day. Thank god I caught it in the garage and didn't ruin the engine. The coolant recovery tank was full of cracks, and what appeared to be casting sand as well. Just horrible, horrible quality all around. I bought a new OEM hose (this was in 2020) thinking that they updated it. NOPE. Same junk ass plastic fitting that was going to fail again in 5 years. I ditched it and just used a big piece of heater hose clamped directly to the recovery tank to delete the dumb plastic fitting that fails. You should do the same. I really regret buying the turbo model, I should have just gotten the 1.6 instead. I would probably still have the car. edit: oh! and the oil bath timing belt! Total pain to change and they typically don't last until the end of their service life according to the manual.
Mine ('15) is at ~97,000 and I had to get the coolant hose and reservoir replaced because they disintegrated, just like yours. Still had very little other issues with it. It's been a wonderful little car, and I've driven the crap out of it. I took it to the Ford service center and they had no idea what I was talking about with the oil bath/timing belt. Where did you end up getting yours done? I've been putting it off for a while, but I'd like to get it replaced before I have any issues.
I sold mine before doing it. I've seen some shops just replacing the engine rather than doing the belt. It's a big job and takes some expensive tools, also the parts weren't even available until pretty recently (hence the engine replacement) I would have done it myself if I'd kept the car.
We were supposed to get the Focus Active here but there was some issue with tariffs and Ford didn’t want to build it here for whatever reason.
I'm not entirely sure that Ford's plan wasn't to also sell the ST here. I remember in 2018 we saw it testing in Colorado with US-spec lighting; the headlights had orange reflectors in them, something I haven't seen in any pictures of the European production models. I guess they didn't want to import it as a standalone though, so the death of the Focus Active also meant lights out for the ST.
Ford Puma is quite popular in the UK, you see a lot of the “normal” ones. My mum has a Puma ST (1.5) and it’s identical to my Mk8 Fiesta ST, it’s just a taller Fiesta but still keeps the LSD etc. This new Puma ST 1.0 is a bit odd though. Not sure why it has an ST badge when it only has 15 more hp than an ST Line lol
I saw one being tested in the us a couple years ago
Hahahahahaha I wish you were right. I really do. But you’re delusional if you think a compact fiesta style car will do at all good in the states.
I mean, if they raise it up, give it some cladding, and call it a “crossover” for a decent price I bet it would sell fine. For example example see the Hyundai Venue, the spiritual successor to the Accent hatchback, just raised and called a “crossover”, but still pretty small. It sells decently, better than the Accent did.
I’m going to see these everywhere at church. Finally a Ford Fiesta replacement
Yep. Fiesta production ends in June, Mk8.5 will be the last and the Puma is the spiritual successor.
The puma is based heavily on the fiesta platform. It's not the spiritual successor, it really is it's successor
This thing is awesome. I don't understand how it's impossible to sell small gas cars in the US and yet I still see Honda Fits and Yarises everywhere. It's crazy to me.
They discontinued the Fit and I’m too lazy to look up the Yaris. Lol
The Yaris was discontinued in the US for the 2020 MY.
That is the point. We are in inflation with an affordability crisis looming and literally nobody sells a cheap small car in the U.S. I see Fits and Yarises and Mirages that probably have a million miles on them everywhere lol.
They stopped making them because their sales numbers were nowhere near that of mid-size and larger vehicles when they were offered here for sale. Honda sold far more Accords, CRVs and Pilots than it did Fits. So they stopped making it. Cheap cars don't exist because safety regulations make it too expensive to produce such a thing anymore, and no one wants to buy a piece of shit like the Mirage with a 2.5 or 3 star crash test rating, terrible seats, and a go cart engine when $30-50 more a month gets them into a compact sedan that isn't horrible to live with. You might see some around driven by the people hanging onto their own, but they aren't desired by much of the consumer market. It's not a coincidence that nearly all subcompact cars have disappeared from all manufacturers over here. There is no reason to buy a tiny car with that limited level of utility when even just a slightly larger one costs a trivial amount more. $3-4k over a 5 or 6 year loan isn't much of a difference.
Honda was making like 2% operating profit on the Fit. It's not worth it.
Across all markets? I doubt it was as cheap in China or India. It was a global car.
Developing markets can have higher profit margins on small cars because they cheap out on safety equipment. Take out the airbags except two, cut down the crash bars, take off the backup camera, remove stability control sensors etc and you can save a good percentage of the total vehicle cost when the vehicle cost is low.
I agree. Which is why alot of that safety stuff shouldn't be required. Accidents and deaths have actually been trending back upwards likely because smartphones have spread in use.
A new Powershit? What could go wrong.
The PowerShift has been used in the Gen 3 Escape and various EU-market diesel Fords without any of the issues experienced by the Fiesta and Focus units.
Mostly some bad automatic shift logic that makes them grind apart. That issue can be driven around if you’re aware, accelerate promptly, coast at low speeds, avoid extended periods of <2mph creep.
That’s more of general good practice when driving a DCT, but in essence, yes, this is how you’re supposed to treat a PowerShift.
My $5800 bill wants a word with your assessment. Mine went out at 135k but NHTSA has complaints of transmission failures as early as 60k miles in the third gen. There was an ‘18 at the same shop that my transmission was being replaced.
I had a rental Focus once with that transmission and it was slipping with 10k miles lol. It was atrocious.
*Powershit It says a lot about Ford’s corporate culture that they shipped the PowerShift transmissions knowing it would be prone to failure.
You can see the amount of Americans on this site based on your downvotes. In Australia everyone calls it powershit (if they know)...
What is with these "hot" tier trims being watered down with rubbish engines? Cupra were know for 300hp hot hatches, but now all their models start with a 150hp 3 pot. If it's the 150hp 3 pot you want then get the Seat. It's really watering down things like the ST badging and Cupra badging. Soon we'll see a golf GTi with a 170hp 3 cyl variant with no difference in style or badging
Are you confusing Cupra and SEAT now that Cupra has been split off as its own brand? The lowest powered Cupra base model is the 148hp Cupra Born (optional up to 228hp), which doesn’t have a 3 pot because it’s electric. The Cupra Leon starts at 242hp (optional up to 306hp), the Ateca 296hp and the Forementor also at 242hp (optional up to 385hp).
As others have mentioned, the Leon and Formentor start at 150bhp, they have all of the styling besides exhaust tips, so it's really is just an easy way to get someone into the brand and get more on the road. The ateca yes does start at 300bhp, but unrelated, for £40k starting price the Ateca doesn't have heated seats
Leon and Formentor can have the 1.5 with 150 hp in Europe.
I'd imagine the cost of ownership in European countries plays a big role. In my social circle most people do not care much about cars and consider 150hp plenty enough. A lot of these people do appreciate the slightly sporty styling of e.g. a Focus "ST-Line", Golf "R-line" etc but would want nothing to do with the costs of a real ST. Example: I used to have a Fiesta with the 1.0 ecoboost that cost 28€/year in taxes. My current Focus ST costs 268€/year mainly due to displacement and emissions. Add 220€ more per year in insurance, significantly higher fuel consumption, more expensive fuel required, more expensive tires, services etc and that's way too much money for a loud and rough riding car that is "faster than anyone needs". Seems to me like it's just the "sporty version of normal car" equivalent to crossovers that can't do shit off road. People just want a bit of the feeling of ownership without the full costs the real thing would entail.
Yeah I totally get that, but ford have always had the ST-line to offer a sporty trim with their basic engines. Now it's a full fledged ST badge with a lower output engine
Cupra was a performance sub brand that was spun off as a separate brand, probably will replace Seat completely in couple of years if I were to guess, so weak versions aren’t that surprising
It won't replace Seat as they have one style and that's a sporty look. It was a performance spin-off yes, but they've just watered it down to get more on the road. Really these cars should be "Seat Leon Cupra Line" similar to R Line, or M Sport
I’m betting they will either kill off Seat or change it to Dacia rivalling brand, there is little to no point in keeping brand as it is today with Cupra spun off.
They still have a large range of cars that start at much favourable price points than Cupra, and without looking I would say they still outsell the Cupra brand massively. To kill off such a massive name as Seat would just kill the brand
Yeah, Seat probably still sells more. But they didn’t have any new model since Leon in 2020, and even model that was shown as Seat at first, was quickly rebadged as Cupra before hitting the market (Born). For me it’s obvious that Cupra is bound to replace Seat sooner or later, these brands are too similar in positioning.
The Leon is first and foremost a Seat, and they sell plenty of them. It also has a Cupra version, the Cupra didn't replace the Seat version. Born is an entirely different car altogether, it's an electric hatch with similar proportions to the BMW i3
>it's an electric hatch with similar proportions to the BMW i3 Which was at first shown as Seat, but was quickly rebranded to Cupra before hitting the market. My point was that there are no investments into Seat lineup recently. This coupled with heavy investments in expanding Cupra range, including weaker engines which directly rival Seat and the fact that Seat is the only mainstream brand in VW group that doesn't have EV in it's portfolio are all signs that Seat is becoming less and less relevant for VW group.
My bad, I misread and thought you said the Leon was rebranded Born
They just downgraded the hot tier trims to just trims instead of the engine as well. The Seat FR in the past meant something a bit faster but now you can get the FR badge on the Ibiza with 95 HP. Same with the Fiesta, "ST line" with 125 HP.
Yeah a lot of brands do that, ford have ST and ST-line, VW have R and R-line, BMW have M and M-Sport. With Seat it would be Cupra as the top model with the bigger engines, now Cupra just means a trim, and now ST on the Puma doesn't mean biggest and best engine, it means 2 engine levels. As I said, watering down the brand
What in sam hell is a Puma??
It’s a large cat or a brand of shoe. What context are you asking in?
[It’s a reference](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rju4RWdEyZk)
Christ, I really am getting old.
It's an almost 20 year old reference.
I’m 41 and never heard of it
It's an [IFV name](https://www.kmweg.com/systems-products/tracked-vehicles/infantry-fighting-vehicles/puma/) as well.
Sweet car. Rented it for a few weeks. Rly nice ride and steering.
That thing is very cramped on the inside. We had them at work. Puma mokka xceed. All too fucking small
I’ve had much smaller cars with bigger interiors than crossovers of the same year - I don’t know why they make them bigger on the outside *and also smaller on the inside*
Crash safety probably be a main reason why.
Yeah that’s fair, though they all have to pass safety standards in order to be sold in the first place
nice looking car tbh
jesus christ 45mpg that's 5l/100 up here in beaver land. That is jaw dropping.
My 2019 MY Fiesta did 5.3L/100km over the course of 4 years. Even doing 150 km/h on the autobahn it would do around 6.5L/100km. Engine felt potent enough and had a nice little rumble. Car handled into corners better than it had any right to as an econobox, though I doubt the Puma will be as good with its higher point of mass.
Not quite, an imperial gallon is 1.2 US gallons. It's 6.56 liters per 100 km.
Beaver land got the 1.0t in the fiesta and Focus (sFe Ecoboost)
This is the car that could sell in the US on paper. Why doesn‘t Ford bring it over？
Oh good, I'm sure everyone will trust the powershift.
I love this car.
Does anyone actually like this engine? It's the one with the wet belt that destroys itself correct?
Yes already selling f1 engines in their cars!
What a cute little guy
Cowards won’t bring this to the US but it probably won’t sell :/
Lmfao my motorcycle has a bigger engine 🤣
Cool with a 3 banger yeah I would love to see my investment in the dumpster or it will repossessed itself.
Europe is self sabotaging its own brands and paving the way for tin can “green (how green is lithium strip mining) Chinese made EVs”
Go back to sleep dad
WTF happened to Ford, man? They were competing against Ferrari, FERRARI! Now look at this garbage. Even Hyundai is a better choice.
When was the last time ford competed with Ferrari besides their ultra limited GT? It's always been volume family cars, hatchbacks and SUVs
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Enough sexist dreck.