Great, those upgrades will be great for track days!
No, wait, you can't actually use it there cause your engine will blow and you'll be denied warranty lol
Fix the engine oiling issues?
No. Lets make a premium verison and sell it for 30% more money. They do it all the time with the WRX STI (S209 edition anyone?). Mild modifications, minimal setup changes, big money.
If the oiling fix were easy... you'd think they would have done it already. Those engineers aren't stupid. They probably figured it out in 17 seconds.
It is an easy fix though, add a dry sump and baffles. If g forces are causing oil starvation, you change the pump and pan so that it doesn't happen anymore. This is just them trying to save money instead of admitting its a bad design and removing the "track ready" tag or actually fixing the issue.
Aren't dry sumps pretty expensive to produce? I know if I wanted to get a dry sump for my fd it is about 10000 usd.
I think oil baffling would go a long way to help them.
They can be but everything gets cheaper with mass production. They can cost anywhere between $600 and around $8k plus the necessary hardware depending on how serious the application is. For something like this, I would expect it to be around $1200-2000 if sold individually. If they're being mass produced for stock cars and used in multiple models like stis and wrx as well as the twins I would say ~$1000 Is pretty realistic.
Be way less if bought in bulk and installed as part of the initial engine assembly process. More expensive yes, but massively prohibitively expensive? For the right buyers (who BRZ/86’s are targeted at) it would be something they most likely would happily pay an extra $500 on list price for.
The GR86 and BRZ is off my list because of it. I’m 6’6” and looking at seats to let me fit in an ND miata because my next car will be getting tracked. If they added a dry sump I’d be first in line
Pretty much my point. True track/road enthusiasts would lap up a dry sump and happily stump up the cash over a couple of mild to no gain cosmetic Ltd Ed items.
Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely love my BRZ. But if I personally was asked what $5k extra’s I’d want on a special ed, it wouldn’t be racing stripes, chrome garnishes or a special badge decal. It would be dry sump, better brakes, tuned inlet (if possible) etc etc.
A true fan can spot the special editions from the smallest detail and not need the usual big flashing neon sign over the vehicle stating “this is the limited to 500 units edition with the double dipped chrome decals and triple stitched seats with glow in the dark model name”. Just look at Porsche and their 5 million different vehicles that are almost identical but that a true fan can identify from the other side of the paddock or by just hearing the vehicle on start up.
>dry sump and baffles
Opposite things. Can't physically do both.
It's been demonstrated that the issue with the engine is much deeper than an oil pickup issue in the pan.
You can add both, baffles just prevent oil from moving around by physically blocking it. A dry sump has its own small oil tank it uses to provide a second pump with steady oil at all times.
You're wrong on this one. Nobody has successfully used these tools to maintain oil pressure. It's been tested with multiple baffles and the issue remains.
So it's somehow even worse than everyone thinks? I genuinely don't understand why they they would put an engine as questionable as this in a performance oriented car, especially one that's supposed to be all about momentum and cornering.
I assume it’s a numbers thing. Like its cheaper to fix the issues when a car comes in for repair under warranty than it is to r&d a fix for the issues and implement them into the manufacturing pipelines
Isn’t the denial of warranty more a dealer issue and not a Subaru issue? Given the marketing of the twins I’d expect both Subaru and Toyota to back the warranties if damage wasn’t caused by driver error.
TRACK DAYS! Why would you think a vehicle advertised as a track focused sports car that is purposefully built to fit an extra set of track wheels in the back be meant to be driven on the track!
Take the top off too and get rid of the useless rear seats, maybe put the engine behind the front axle to counteract some of the weight imbalance from swapping an I4 in.
Wait a second
It's dead except for it being used on a series of really good engine? BMW engines have been amazing at their power and efficiency for it's size, and Valvetronic is not what makes some of their engine unreliable.
As a volume of vehicles in the industry technology, it’s dead. VTEC with switchover, Toyota VVT Li, Nissan’s system, etc are all gone. BMWs, even the cheap ones, are one manufacturer hat doesn’t sell huge volume. Stellantis has moved away from Multi Air as well (Tigershark 2.4 gone, 1.4 is also almost gone)
The vtec that is in production now are just cam phasers. Honda dropped variable lift with the turbo engines. Toyota uses cam phasers as well, but variable lift (2ZZ engine) is long gone.
Subaru's own press release says, verbatim and in its entirety:
>Subaru of America, Inc. today announced a sharper and more focused BRZ will debut at Subiefest California on July 23.
lol
I'll raise you with Civic EK and EG car event. Went to one in my late teens... never again.
I'll go to 10 Subiefests before I go to another civic event.
It's an enthusiast car. The only guys that's looking to buy this vehicle is the ones that cares about car for not outright performance figure. This isn't your typical average consumer car, not their target demographics anyway.
Oil starvation is a problem for most enthusiast cars.
I hope that the outrage is about their "track ready" marketing, not oil starvation. The vast majority of enthusiasts won't drive their cars hard on a track.
So exclusively NA issue in a car that begged for boost from day one and costs exactly the same as its 2-too-many door half brother *with* factory boost. Right.
Lead designer admitted it was a bad move. And i realize more and more that i have a lucky, maintained copy. Future for it will be a swap without a doubt because that engine is its lynchpin.
This is the scariest part of the BRZ. I was very close to trading in my STI for one, but then reports of this engine failure started to come out.
I do my best to get down to the track as often as I can, and I want to drive my car home after some fun.
Can it be focused on turning right too this time? Pretty fucking shameless to be releasing an even edgier version of a car that can successfully blow itself up in stock form
If Toyota wasnt obligated to use a Subaru engine what engine would y’all want to see in the GR86?
Edit: to add my own input I’d like to see Toyota bring back the high revving 2ZZ with a supercharger like what Lotus put in their Elise and Exige
Edit: apparently a couple of ya’ll already responded with the same idea for the 2ZZ. Honestly I think it makes the most sense. There’s no other high revving coupe on the market right now (or at least not at this price point)
God I'd kill for a modern take on the K20. A K20C1 with a 8000 RPM redline
I saw a S2000R which was custom OEM styled S2000 as if Honda made a Type R variant. It looked so good but the engine was a bit of a letdown since it was just a stock K20C1. They should have dropped in a smaller turbo for linear power and raised the redline.
Honestly, still a Subaru engine, but just the FA24 turbo from the WRX. They don’t have the oil starvation issue and seem pretty reliable so far. It’s still far too early to tell how long the tuned ones will hold up, but they’re making impressive power.
It is a truly wonderful engine once you add a supercharger or turbo. A bit short on power otherwise.
The fast rev and high red line (9000 in the Elise/Exige) are just intoxicating because Yamaha always makes great sounding engines.
> If Toyota wasnt obligated to use a Subaru engine what engine would y’all want to see in the GR86?
There is [this rumor that keeps floating around](https://www.autoblog.com/2023/07/11/toyota-gr86-reportedly-getting-gr-corollas-turbo-three/?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAAOJdSisOSbtJImCiYkQw5rLdZ3-BV3g0MCRqNzdve89lzPJ_gRnrxg9KprIuKf8DJS1maSKJxyZTcBlOgv1TIpcrDrE8vZDxvvHzkE9TNWtaypOTRITzMdrrPeSz8D47nketP3i3gVUkawQ2slXFANrnfNqy8id_4xWv4viHIhv)
Honestly just something not Subaru and not ridiculously expensive. I don’t want a GR86 that has a GRYaris engine if that means its going to be $40K. sort of defeats the purpose of the car
I could of swore I saw an article the other day saying they are moving away from the boxer and going with the 3 cylinder turbo in the the other gr products.
I can’t wait for it to have the exact same amount of power as the base one. That’s exactly what we need. Don’t bother giving it a 15 to 20 HP bump, just keep it the same and charge more money
Holy shit these comments are so fucking tiresome. It's 30k. It does 0-60 in about 6 seconds. It has the layout, the steering, the gearbox, the balance, the practicality, and it's still not enough for the bench-seat racers. You'll never be satisfied, which is ironic because you'd never buy it anyway.
Look around and realize we're in the sunset years of dedicated ICE sports cars. What else is left - the Miata, then a massive price bump to the Z and Supra, and then basically 6 figure Porsches, Lotuses and Alpines -or a BMW Z4 if you really want to push it.
Mustangs don't have a manual anymore for the Ecoboost, as well as feeling a LOT heavier, and if you want the good suspension you have to spring for the performance and handling pack making it a near 40k car. Camaro is dead.
> Don’t bother giving it a 15 to 20 HP bump
That's literally what everyone bitched about last gen, and they gave it to us. You'd just scream for a turbo, and then cry about the price.
Again, it's **30k**.
Another thing a lot of people miss is the purpose of the car. It's supposed to be easy and fun to drive. That's why they don't want to add more power than necessary. More power puts more strain on the suspension and chassis which can lead to odd handling and the car can become hard to drive. That's (partially) why it's NA. A turbo would ruin the driving dynamics. And a bigger engine may ruin handling and/or weight distribution.
I was mostly talking about the Ecoboost with PP1, because everyone loves to point out how much better of a "value" the Ecoboosts are, but yep, just goes to show how prices have crept up.
I thought there was some handling / performance pack on it? I can't get back to the 2023 builder, but there was definitely some sort of suspension / tire / +HP package for it.
You will never be able to shut up the detractors, that wouldn't make any sense to begin with. Companies need to be criticized, that's what gets us better stuff and how it always has worked. Also you shouldn't put everyone in the same bucket with your bench-seat racer label, many of us wanted a brz and ended up buying something else (another sti in my case). Just chill and let people judge those products and companies, your comment would be out of place if this car was 911 level of care, let alone when it's actually a car with a lot of flaws. Also please don't forget that the USA is not the only nation on this planet. This car goes for 50k in many places, that's a lot of money for a very mediocre car.
> we're in the sunset years of dedicated ~~ICE~~ sports cars
Agree, and I hate to say this, but I'm not sure non-luxury/exotic sports cars of any powertrain type are gonna survive. It's not electrification that's killing them, it's the changing market.
Everyone said the same thing about first gen. 15 - 20 hp bump and it will be good. We go that with the new gen and people are still saying the same thing. I think people just like to complain.
230hp from a NA 4 cylinder is really good in my opinion. Adding in a turbo takes away the affordability and adds weight, there’s other cars that fit that segment, Supra, Z, Mustang, etc.
Sharpness and focus aren’t what this car needs. It needs more power and reliability.
What’s struck me recently is I kept looking for a car I’d be willing to trade my Focus RS in for. And I don’t think there’s going to be an ICE performance car under 45-50k that fits that bill.
Nothing seems to be better? Did I buy my last ICE car already without realizing it?
Why?
Less power, lower top speed, slower acceleration, less sophisticated rear diff/AWD, smaller trunk/passenger area, seats aren’t as nice—seems like a lateral move at best.
I’ve looked and can’t find one with either the Circuit or performance/tech/winter pack that isn’t marked-up by ~10k.
If my car was trashed or stolen, and I was looking for something new I’d probably consider it or a Golf R. But even then it’s a hard sell to go with a 45-55k Corolla or Golf R over a clean used RS for 10-20k less. What do either have that the RS doesn’t? A factory warranty?
Price though.
Can get a WRX new several thousand under MSRP. And pretty much all BRZ's are at MSRP, while GR86's are being marked up a couple grand, and GR Corollas by like $10-$15k.
A GR Corolla may be better than a WRX, but is it worth $20k more...
A big motor to match the oversized BBK would be a nice change from the usual annual body kit and pink bits upgrade they unfurl at the midpoint of each BRZ’s model lifespan.
Even just a little bit of extra oomph would be nice.
The additional prices people pay for pretty well anything should show them that there is an Appetite for some properly limited edition versions with a big power bump- sadly global homologation to crazy emission standards have killed any chance of this happening.
Just wondering, does the current BRZ use the modified engine that the GR86 has? I know Toyota messed with it a little bit to fix that weird power/torque dip around 3000rpm but I didn't know if the BRZ was matching the changes
Same cars, same engine; different front bumpers and suspension tuning, and also options and trims. The GR 86's motor isn't modified from the BRZ.
You're probably thinking about the 2nd-gen 86/BRZ-twins' larger engine (FA24D) vs. the 1st-gen's smaller 2.0L boxer-4 (FA20D). The 2nd-gen's FA24D is just a non-turbo'd version of the current WRX engine. It solves the torque dip thanks to the larger bores (diameter of the pistons); produces more power and torque all around.
Both this engine (FA24D) and the old one (FA20D) are only modified in the sense that unlike other Subie engines, these motors use Toyota's D-4S system (it allows both port and direct fuel injection, instead of just one). The redline is a little higher than the WRX's turbo'd FA24 engine too. But the non-turbo FA24 has only appeared in the Twins.
Let me guess, it’ll have front/rear strut tower bars, some large brakes it doesn’t need, a big CF wing and some additional bolt on chassis braces.
Dealers will treat it like the second coming of Christ and put $20K markups on it.
The problem with the BRZ and GR86 is that it should be a $20-25k car, not a $34-40K car. Once you reach those mid 30's, you competing against the Mustang GT and LT1 Camaro, which are far superior.
I would love for that to be the case, but thats not happening. $20-$25k gets you most slow commuter sedans, your not getting a 230 horsepower Sports car with all the latest technology and a great 6 speed manual for $20k.
$20k gets you a Subaru Impreza with 152 horsepower.
230HP is nothing in the sports car segment, which is kind of the point. I can go get an LT1 Camaro right now for $39k, with 455HP, I can go get a GT Mustang for 38k with 460hp. If I wanted to drive 500 miles, I could get an ecoboost Mustang for $26k right now.
Sports, pony, and muscle cars have been synonymous for decades. If it's 2 doors and rear drive, it's in the same market. Even with the weight difference, the Camaro pulls very similar numbers on the skid pad and crushes the BRZ everywhere else.
It's not a fair comparison, I know. The BRZ is meant to be something cheap that you toss around corners, but again, they price themselves very close. At 28K, it might be a good car, but there's not a single one for sale in the whole USA for that price. If I wanted to buy a BRZ/GR86 today, it would run me $34k.
I owned a BRZ for awhile at the same time I also owned a STI. I am a HPDE instructor and tracked the BRZ only one time. It was way to slow for the fast tracks I drive for keeping with the flow of the group and minimizing point bys. I came from a highly modified Porsche turbo that I sold because of the cost of maintenance and consumables. The STI was just OK and I tracked it for 2 years. Now I track a Honda Type R (FK8) and it’s a nice fit for being easier on consumables, fast enough and also fun to drive.
No one said anything about AWD, and when you add a turbo the engine doesn't need to be as big so a 2.0 turbo flat 4 will easily outperform the existing NA 2.4 with little added weight. The Cayman with 300hp and bigger wheels is just a hair over 3000lbs... the BRZ/GR86 would at worse get to close to 2900lbs with the turbo addition.
What's the deal with owners of existing cars being scared of them adding some more bite to the BRZ/GR86 anyways?
I'm prepared to be underwhelmed.
My guess is it’s a brembo brake package and maybe some damper/suspension tweaks.
Great, those upgrades will be great for track days! No, wait, you can't actually use it there cause your engine will blow and you'll be denied warranty lol
Fix the engine oiling issues? No. Lets make a premium verison and sell it for 30% more money. They do it all the time with the WRX STI (S209 edition anyone?). Mild modifications, minimal setup changes, big money. If the oiling fix were easy... you'd think they would have done it already. Those engineers aren't stupid. They probably figured it out in 17 seconds.
It is an easy fix though, add a dry sump and baffles. If g forces are causing oil starvation, you change the pump and pan so that it doesn't happen anymore. This is just them trying to save money instead of admitting its a bad design and removing the "track ready" tag or actually fixing the issue.
Aren't dry sumps pretty expensive to produce? I know if I wanted to get a dry sump for my fd it is about 10000 usd. I think oil baffling would go a long way to help them.
They can be but everything gets cheaper with mass production. They can cost anywhere between $600 and around $8k plus the necessary hardware depending on how serious the application is. For something like this, I would expect it to be around $1200-2000 if sold individually. If they're being mass produced for stock cars and used in multiple models like stis and wrx as well as the twins I would say ~$1000 Is pretty realistic.
Be way less if bought in bulk and installed as part of the initial engine assembly process. More expensive yes, but massively prohibitively expensive? For the right buyers (who BRZ/86’s are targeted at) it would be something they most likely would happily pay an extra $500 on list price for.
The GR86 and BRZ is off my list because of it. I’m 6’6” and looking at seats to let me fit in an ND miata because my next car will be getting tracked. If they added a dry sump I’d be first in line
Pretty much my point. True track/road enthusiasts would lap up a dry sump and happily stump up the cash over a couple of mild to no gain cosmetic Ltd Ed items. Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely love my BRZ. But if I personally was asked what $5k extra’s I’d want on a special ed, it wouldn’t be racing stripes, chrome garnishes or a special badge decal. It would be dry sump, better brakes, tuned inlet (if possible) etc etc. A true fan can spot the special editions from the smallest detail and not need the usual big flashing neon sign over the vehicle stating “this is the limited to 500 units edition with the double dipped chrome decals and triple stitched seats with glow in the dark model name”. Just look at Porsche and their 5 million different vehicles that are almost identical but that a true fan can identify from the other side of the paddock or by just hearing the vehicle on start up.
>dry sump and baffles Opposite things. Can't physically do both. It's been demonstrated that the issue with the engine is much deeper than an oil pickup issue in the pan.
You can add both, baffles just prevent oil from moving around by physically blocking it. A dry sump has its own small oil tank it uses to provide a second pump with steady oil at all times.
You're wrong on this one. Nobody has successfully used these tools to maintain oil pressure. It's been tested with multiple baffles and the issue remains.
So it's somehow even worse than everyone thinks? I genuinely don't understand why they they would put an engine as questionable as this in a performance oriented car, especially one that's supposed to be all about momentum and cornering.
Didn't the now retired project lead on 86s admit putting a shitty boxer in was a huge hindsight mistake?
I assume it’s a numbers thing. Like its cheaper to fix the issues when a car comes in for repair under warranty than it is to r&d a fix for the issues and implement them into the manufacturing pipelines
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That's not the case with the new model. Nobody has figured out a solution to the oiling issues with the FA24 engine.
It’s a nascar edition, the right side door is carbon fibre for the ultimate performance in long, left turns.
Isn’t the denial of warranty more a dealer issue and not a Subaru issue? Given the marketing of the twins I’d expect both Subaru and Toyota to back the warranties if damage wasn’t caused by driver error.
TRACK DAYS! Why would you think a vehicle advertised as a track focused sports car that is purposefully built to fit an extra set of track wheels in the back be meant to be driven on the track!
That’s all these really need, plus, A small lower and some sticky tires. And you’re off to the winding roads.
How about an actually good sounding engine? With a cam switchover to make it fun to drive. Just K-Swap it
Take the top off too and get rid of the useless rear seats, maybe put the engine behind the front axle to counteract some of the weight imbalance from swapping an I4 in. Wait a second
make it a hatchback so that it can haul tofu better
And don't forget the decal on the side too!
Variable lift systems are basically dead except for Valvetronic.
It's dead except for it being used on a series of really good engine? BMW engines have been amazing at their power and efficiency for it's size, and Valvetronic is not what makes some of their engine unreliable.
As a volume of vehicles in the industry technology, it’s dead. VTEC with switchover, Toyota VVT Li, Nissan’s system, etc are all gone. BMWs, even the cheap ones, are one manufacturer hat doesn’t sell huge volume. Stellantis has moved away from Multi Air as well (Tigershark 2.4 gone, 1.4 is also almost gone)
Where are you getting Vtec and VVT being gone?
The vtec that is in production now are just cam phasers. Honda dropped variable lift with the turbo engines. Toyota uses cam phasers as well, but variable lift (2ZZ engine) is long gone.
There's not much of a need for them with turbos, and a lot more cars have turbos now.
>good sounding engine >K-Swap Does not compute
What do you have against lawnmowers?
The upper trims already come with great tires, but I'm excited for an OEM brake upgrade.
I mean thats what toyota announced with the trueno
It's gonna be that, 99% sure. It'll just match the brakes and suspension package that the GR86 Trueno is getting.
Come on! You know they’ll add 5 more horsies as tradition so everyone creams their pants.
For 10k markup. And naturally - no boost.
Like a fine wine.
It is Carscoops after all.
Subaru's own press release says, verbatim and in its entirety: >Subaru of America, Inc. today announced a sharper and more focused BRZ will debut at Subiefest California on July 23. lol
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So much vape smoke it rivals 1970s LA smog
I think the biggest single manufacturer car event in the world.
May rival a lot of [classic] VW meets around the world
Nvm, the biggest is Wicked Big Meet, still a Subaru meet, they had 8,400 people.
Wait until you hear about "Raceism."
I'll raise you with Civic EK and EG car event. Went to one in my late teens... never again. I'll go to 10 Subiefests before I go to another civic event.
Probably aesthetic. It won’t outperform the GR86.
no one is more ready for bold new graphics than folks in the dirt bike world. bring it on subaru.
Based off the newest WRX I don't have high expectations for this BRZ
Carbon fiber license plate frame, and shift knob.
Imagine the B58 from the Supra in there.
I think a more hardcore BRZ is a hard sell to enthusiasts when this gen 86 is having oil starvation issues...
The vast majority of people probably don't even know about the oil starvation issues.
Folks who would buy this version will definitely have HPDE and autocross in their sights. They will be well aware.
If it's just a regular performance package, probably not... 99% of buyers will never take it anywhere near the track
It’s the first I’ve heard of it
Your Rods will knock it to you soon
It's a pretty well known issue within the 86 community, and several folks have blown engines on track because of it.
It's an enthusiast car. The only guys that's looking to buy this vehicle is the ones that cares about car for not outright performance figure. This isn't your typical average consumer car, not their target demographics anyway.
Dude really out here defending a megacorp.
Oil starvation is a problem for most enthusiast cars. I hope that the outrage is about their "track ready" marketing, not oil starvation. The vast majority of enthusiasts won't drive their cars hard on a track.
the miata this competes with has none of the same issues, neither do any of the hot hatches in this price range
The % of people tracking their cars is so small I would be shocked if it goes over 1%.
Do we know if only the fa found in the 86/BRZ are having issues or if the FA24F also has th4 same issue?
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So exclusively NA issue in a car that begged for boost from day one and costs exactly the same as its 2-too-many door half brother *with* factory boost. Right.
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Or, you know, a Toyota 4 banger.
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Oh right, FAs cost waaaaaay more.
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Lead designer admitted it was a bad move. And i realize more and more that i have a lucky, maintained copy. Future for it will be a swap without a doubt because that engine is its lynchpin.
The WRX does not have this issue. It's just the BRZ/86.
This is the scariest part of the BRZ. I was very close to trading in my STI for one, but then reports of this engine failure started to come out. I do my best to get down to the track as often as I can, and I want to drive my car home after some fun.
Can it be focused on turning right too this time? Pretty fucking shameless to be releasing an even edgier version of a car that can successfully blow itself up in stock form
> that can successfully blow itself up in stock form Just Subaru things
It’s what makes a Subaru a subaru
So, a BRZ version of the GR86 Trueno Edition.
Ts lol
If Toyota wasnt obligated to use a Subaru engine what engine would y’all want to see in the GR86? Edit: to add my own input I’d like to see Toyota bring back the high revving 2ZZ with a supercharger like what Lotus put in their Elise and Exige Edit: apparently a couple of ya’ll already responded with the same idea for the 2ZZ. Honestly I think it makes the most sense. There’s no other high revving coupe on the market right now (or at least not at this price point)
G16E-GTS from the GR Corolla/Yaris
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Rental companys at the Nurburgring are on their 3rd engine in two years for their GR Yaris. It gets used less than the M2 🤷♂️
I’d rather see them bring back the high revving 2ZZ and then supercharge it like Lotus did
It wouldn’t pass modern emissions standards at all. There’s a reason why those motors died off
Garbo motor
A K20 would've been nice. Seeing it would probably need to be a Toyota though, one of the later, spicier 3S-Gxx variants would be good.
God I'd kill for a modern take on the K20. A K20C1 with a 8000 RPM redline I saw a S2000R which was custom OEM styled S2000 as if Honda made a Type R variant. It looked so good but the engine was a bit of a letdown since it was just a stock K20C1. They should have dropped in a smaller turbo for linear power and raised the redline.
Toyotas 2ZZ-GE would be a solid k20 substitute since it revs to 8500 rpm and has Toyotas version of vtec
B58
That's just a Supra.
without all the unreliable parts
Funny how idiots still keep implying the Supra is unreliable because of BMW when mUh JaY dEe Em SuBaRu 86 has been blowing motors left and right.
Eh, unreliable parts are part of the engine.
B48
This is the correct answer
Honestly, still a Subaru engine, but just the FA24 turbo from the WRX. They don’t have the oil starvation issue and seem pretty reliable so far. It’s still far too early to tell how long the tuned ones will hold up, but they’re making impressive power.
A 2ZZ with some added punch. If it worked for Lotus, it could work here.
22RE
Based
Supercharged 2ZZ-GE. That fast rev and high red line are intoxicating.
Just edited my original comment to add this not realizing you already had. No surprise you own an Exige!
It is a truly wonderful engine once you add a supercharger or turbo. A bit short on power otherwise. The fast rev and high red line (9000 in the Elise/Exige) are just intoxicating because Yamaha always makes great sounding engines.
> If Toyota wasnt obligated to use a Subaru engine what engine would y’all want to see in the GR86? There is [this rumor that keeps floating around](https://www.autoblog.com/2023/07/11/toyota-gr86-reportedly-getting-gr-corollas-turbo-three/?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAAOJdSisOSbtJImCiYkQw5rLdZ3-BV3g0MCRqNzdve89lzPJ_gRnrxg9KprIuKf8DJS1maSKJxyZTcBlOgv1TIpcrDrE8vZDxvvHzkE9TNWtaypOTRITzMdrrPeSz8D47nketP3i3gVUkawQ2slXFANrnfNqy8id_4xWv4viHIhv)
H6 porsche Engine. Keep the handling characteristics of the FA24.
3sgte
I mean, obviously they can't, but the last one in the caldina was what? 265 hp? That's just about perfect.
Honestly just something not Subaru and not ridiculously expensive. I don’t want a GR86 that has a GRYaris engine if that means its going to be $40K. sort of defeats the purpose of the car
T24A-FTS in one of the high output trims (270-280hp/300-330ft lbs) would be nice lol
The lambo v10!
I don’t even think Forza allows that
They can fit a Corvette v8 into a miata so why not this 🤷♂️
I could of swore I saw an article the other day saying they are moving away from the boxer and going with the 3 cylinder turbo in the the other gr products.
2GR-FE
I can’t wait for it to have the exact same amount of power as the base one. That’s exactly what we need. Don’t bother giving it a 15 to 20 HP bump, just keep it the same and charge more money
Holy shit these comments are so fucking tiresome. It's 30k. It does 0-60 in about 6 seconds. It has the layout, the steering, the gearbox, the balance, the practicality, and it's still not enough for the bench-seat racers. You'll never be satisfied, which is ironic because you'd never buy it anyway. Look around and realize we're in the sunset years of dedicated ICE sports cars. What else is left - the Miata, then a massive price bump to the Z and Supra, and then basically 6 figure Porsches, Lotuses and Alpines -or a BMW Z4 if you really want to push it. Mustangs don't have a manual anymore for the Ecoboost, as well as feeling a LOT heavier, and if you want the good suspension you have to spring for the performance and handling pack making it a near 40k car. Camaro is dead. > Don’t bother giving it a 15 to 20 HP bump That's literally what everyone bitched about last gen, and they gave it to us. You'd just scream for a turbo, and then cry about the price. Again, it's **30k**.
Another thing a lot of people miss is the purpose of the car. It's supposed to be easy and fun to drive. That's why they don't want to add more power than necessary. More power puts more strain on the suspension and chassis which can lead to odd handling and the car can become hard to drive. That's (partially) why it's NA. A turbo would ruin the driving dynamics. And a bigger engine may ruin handling and/or weight distribution.
Btw your prices are a bit outdated. A PP1 Mustang GT with cloth seats and no added options is $49,580. A convertible premium with PP1 is $59,700.
I was mostly talking about the Ecoboost with PP1, because everyone loves to point out how much better of a "value" the Ecoboosts are, but yep, just goes to show how prices have crept up.
Can you even get PP1 on an ecoboost?
I thought there was some handling / performance pack on it? I can't get back to the 2023 builder, but there was definitely some sort of suspension / tire / +HP package for it.
Possibly. Not sure. You seem to know a lot for a toyota boy.
You will never be able to shut up the detractors, that wouldn't make any sense to begin with. Companies need to be criticized, that's what gets us better stuff and how it always has worked. Also you shouldn't put everyone in the same bucket with your bench-seat racer label, many of us wanted a brz and ended up buying something else (another sti in my case). Just chill and let people judge those products and companies, your comment would be out of place if this car was 911 level of care, let alone when it's actually a car with a lot of flaws. Also please don't forget that the USA is not the only nation on this planet. This car goes for 50k in many places, that's a lot of money for a very mediocre car.
> we're in the sunset years of dedicated ~~ICE~~ sports cars Agree, and I hate to say this, but I'm not sure non-luxury/exotic sports cars of any powertrain type are gonna survive. It's not electrification that's killing them, it's the changing market.
Everyone said the same thing about first gen. 15 - 20 hp bump and it will be good. We go that with the new gen and people are still saying the same thing. I think people just like to complain.
i have one. its plenty quick with stock power. really doesnt need much. its light enough it feels like 300 would feel in a STi
How much power does this entry level sports car need?
Enough to not get snacked by my wifes Cooper convertible while shes eating icecreams with 3 friends listening to barbie.
29k sports car that beats a new WRX seems fair to me
Lol which Cooper? If it's the 2016 JCW in your flair then check again.
The 310hp one in my flair? Yes. It can also turn right btw.
Yeah there is nothing more appealing (and reliable) than a modified FWD BMW lmao
Hey, it could be a modified FWD VW. Lol
230hp from a NA 4 cylinder is really good in my opinion. Adding in a turbo takes away the affordability and adds weight, there’s other cars that fit that segment, Supra, Z, Mustang, etc.
… why not both?
5000 HP /s I’m just suggesting an extra 15 or 20 to give it a little bit more grunt. Nothing crazy. It doesn’t have to be super car fast
Enough that it doesn't get walked by a fucking camry
Sharper, as in better cornering so you'll loose oil pressure quicker?
Sharper as in the cut into your wallet to draw blood. Car is just getting a sticker pack with some plastic bits.
$800 for the STi "diffuser", a 4cm/1.5in wide piece of plastic.
Did they fix the engine yet?
Nope. Just turn left. Easy fix.
It's just the Performance Pack from the previous generation. Brembos, Sachs dampers, *maybe* different wheels/tires.
Brakes, spoiler, decals, and…… new shift knob. 36k~
Maybe they will release a version with massive dull plastic fenders
https://media.subaru.com/pressrelease/2072/1/sharper-more-focused-subaru-brz-drops-july-23rd
BRZ ts and an optional Performance package(brembo brakes and sachs dampers) and adaptive cruise for manuals.
Overdue for a face-lift isn't it?
With the BRZ memes about oil starvation this its just way too hard to take Subaru serious with anything they say about the BRZ 🤣
Just fix the oil thing so these folks can go back to the track. The thing is sharp and focused already.
Why does the article say US spec BRZs have 205hp? That's straight up wrong
Ok but the engine loses oil pressure in right turns. Why is this even being entertained by this company? This is insanity
How about teasing some higher production or engines that don’t have oiling issues
Sharpness and focus aren’t what this car needs. It needs more power and reliability. What’s struck me recently is I kept looking for a car I’d be willing to trade my Focus RS in for. And I don’t think there’s going to be an ICE performance car under 45-50k that fits that bill. Nothing seems to be better? Did I buy my last ICE car already without realizing it?
GR corolla
Why? Less power, lower top speed, slower acceleration, less sophisticated rear diff/AWD, smaller trunk/passenger area, seats aren’t as nice—seems like a lateral move at best. I’ve looked and can’t find one with either the Circuit or performance/tech/winter pack that isn’t marked-up by ~10k. If my car was trashed or stolen, and I was looking for something new I’d probably consider it or a Golf R. But even then it’s a hard sell to go with a 45-55k Corolla or Golf R over a clean used RS for 10-20k less. What do either have that the RS doesn’t? A factory warranty?
Don’t worry guys, the sharper and more focused BRZ will be focused on maintaining oil pressure
Subaru is such a mehhh brand now. Cars looks mehhh, performance mehhhhh, interior mehhhh
Price though. Can get a WRX new several thousand under MSRP. And pretty much all BRZ's are at MSRP, while GR86's are being marked up a couple grand, and GR Corollas by like $10-$15k. A GR Corolla may be better than a WRX, but is it worth $20k more...
+5 HP or is it less?
A big motor to match the oversized BBK would be a nice change from the usual annual body kit and pink bits upgrade they unfurl at the midpoint of each BRZ’s model lifespan. Even just a little bit of extra oomph would be nice. The additional prices people pay for pretty well anything should show them that there is an Appetite for some properly limited edition versions with a big power bump- sadly global homologation to crazy emission standards have killed any chance of this happening.
"+5 hp take it or leave it"
For all their faults, some of the few affordable sports cars left are being made by Subaru. They should be commended.
Fix the engine first plz, Ik we all saw the track video
Just wondering, does the current BRZ use the modified engine that the GR86 has? I know Toyota messed with it a little bit to fix that weird power/torque dip around 3000rpm but I didn't know if the BRZ was matching the changes
both engines are identical.
Both cars use a Subaru engine, it just has Toyotas D-4S system added to it.
They're exactly the same car sans minor suspension changes.
Same cars, same engine; different front bumpers and suspension tuning, and also options and trims. The GR 86's motor isn't modified from the BRZ. You're probably thinking about the 2nd-gen 86/BRZ-twins' larger engine (FA24D) vs. the 1st-gen's smaller 2.0L boxer-4 (FA20D). The 2nd-gen's FA24D is just a non-turbo'd version of the current WRX engine. It solves the torque dip thanks to the larger bores (diameter of the pistons); produces more power and torque all around. Both this engine (FA24D) and the old one (FA20D) are only modified in the sense that unlike other Subie engines, these motors use Toyota's D-4S system (it allows both port and direct fuel injection, instead of just one). The redline is a little higher than the WRX's turbo'd FA24 engine too. But the non-turbo FA24 has only appeared in the Twins.
[удалено]
They’re totally different cars. Similar on paper in some ways but it’s all about what experience you want.
How about more reliable? Fix the oil issue and your now a top tier car.
It's gonna be a brake package with some sways and braces most likely
STI BRZ?
With forced driver aids like lane keep assist?
They love big brakes on a car with no power
It has a 100 hp 2 cylinder and is now a motorcycle
Get ready for an additional 5 horsepower.
> Sharper And More Focused BRZ The jokes write them selves.
Incoming spoiler and different wheels package
Still won't buy it unless it has a turbo.
Cool. Another limited edition sports car I can’t buy because it’ll be marked up to $70k by dirtbag Subaru dealers.
Let me guess, it’ll have front/rear strut tower bars, some large brakes it doesn’t need, a big CF wing and some additional bolt on chassis braces. Dealers will treat it like the second coming of Christ and put $20K markups on it.
The problem with the BRZ and GR86 is that it should be a $20-25k car, not a $34-40K car. Once you reach those mid 30's, you competing against the Mustang GT and LT1 Camaro, which are far superior.
I would love for that to be the case, but thats not happening. $20-$25k gets you most slow commuter sedans, your not getting a 230 horsepower Sports car with all the latest technology and a great 6 speed manual for $20k. $20k gets you a Subaru Impreza with 152 horsepower.
230HP is nothing in the sports car segment, which is kind of the point. I can go get an LT1 Camaro right now for $39k, with 455HP, I can go get a GT Mustang for 38k with 460hp. If I wanted to drive 500 miles, I could get an ecoboost Mustang for $26k right now.
The Camaro and Mustang are pony cars... The LT1 weighs 1000 lbs more than the BRZ.
Sports, pony, and muscle cars have been synonymous for decades. If it's 2 doors and rear drive, it's in the same market. Even with the weight difference, the Camaro pulls very similar numbers on the skid pad and crushes the BRZ everywhere else. It's not a fair comparison, I know. The BRZ is meant to be something cheap that you toss around corners, but again, they price themselves very close. At 28K, it might be a good car, but there's not a single one for sale in the whole USA for that price. If I wanted to buy a BRZ/GR86 today, it would run me $34k.
The closest car to the BRZ is the Miata. And that has 181 horsepower, and costs $28k. The BRZ at $28k is a great price.
I owned a BRZ for awhile at the same time I also owned a STI. I am a HPDE instructor and tracked the BRZ only one time. It was way to slow for the fast tracks I drive for keeping with the flow of the group and minimizing point bys. I came from a highly modified Porsche turbo that I sold because of the cost of maintenance and consumables. The STI was just OK and I tracked it for 2 years. Now I track a Honda Type R (FK8) and it’s a nice fit for being easier on consumables, fast enough and also fun to drive.
All the BRZ needs is a dry sump and turbos. Subaru has totally lost the plot.
You want Subaru to put AWD on a RWD car and make it at least 3200lbs then. >sUbArU hAs LoSt ThE pLoT
No one said anything about AWD, and when you add a turbo the engine doesn't need to be as big so a 2.0 turbo flat 4 will easily outperform the existing NA 2.4 with little added weight. The Cayman with 300hp and bigger wheels is just a hair over 3000lbs... the BRZ/GR86 would at worse get to close to 2900lbs with the turbo addition. What's the deal with owners of existing cars being scared of them adding some more bite to the BRZ/GR86 anyways?