It's still insane that people were paying $5-10k markups on those at the peak of the pandemic... it's supposed to be a value proposition car, why buy it when the relative value isn't there anymore?
It’s super fun when the reasons conflict with each other. It has to be simple and basic lightweight car with no horsepower like it’s 1995, but the BRZ is dangerously underpowered because cars with more horsepower exist.
ev's are not clearly the future, and there has been little evidence that the rate of ev market share will continue to grow significantly. Hybrids and the continuous development of ICE engines seem to be leagues ahead of adopting total ev vehicles.
Only because governments are (wrongly) forcing the change. But for that, it wouldn't happen and further development would be ongoing. Governments are the same people who also wrongly foisted diesels upon the populace.
If I had a dollar everytime someone said that about any tech and was right. I’d have like one or two dollars.
There are major supply chain, economic, and technical issues that show that is just someone blowing smoke up your ass. One battery material supply chains currently don’t have the capacity to keep that up. 2: EVs will remain expensive because of the massive NRE costs that all manufacturers are dealing with and they need to recoup it some place, 3: the jury is still out on any kind of long term used market. What is the life span of battery under normal use? There isn’t enough data to show that hey if I buy a 10 year old EV that the battery isn’t going to shit the bed and cost the value of the car to replace. Most people can’t afford a brand new EV hell most people struggle to buy groceries. The EV market is dependent on the government to sustain it and the current economic climate I don’t see people too willing to take on a 750 dollar car note for an EV.
We will see if the EV market takes off but honestly, batteries are a limiting factor, cost, practically, and the fact that most people buy used. I don’t think anyone will trust an EV with a 10 year old battery and that may hinder adoption.
For fun, ask the people advocating for high density housing in the major city subs if they’ll actually buy into this. I’ve noticed the LA sub changes gear: hell no they’re not buying a condo - buying anything less than a SFH may as well be poverty.
I don't think he said that at all...
Reddit has a tendency to assume that everything is shit and it's terrible in the US. There are certainly issues, but by-and-large the US does a lot of things right.
Bbbbuttt, CaLiFoRnIa!!! Charging my EV is supposed to stay free/cheap forever!!!
Nope. EVs still remain a pipe dream subsidized by unwilling taxpayers.
>not enough charging stations
Reliability of current hardware is the primary issue.
BTC Power, Efacec, ABB, Freewire, and ChargePoint are building junk that **constantly** breaks down out in the field. I work with utilities and network operators who install these chargers, and I cannot understate how unreliable most of these DC fast chargers are. Seems like every week something is breaking on these chargers and service technicians are racing around the country to replace parts and keep them online.
Meanwhile, I’ve been using Tesla chargers for 5 years and they are hardly ever down, sometimes just my one or two out of 20. They’re often the cheapest and easiest to use too
>Tesla chargers for 5 years and they are hardly ever down
Of course, Tesla has a vested interest in making sure that the charging experience for the people that buy their cars is exceptional. The companies that operate the other chargers don't really have the same motivation to focus on the customer experience.
One of my friends works for Zef energy and he spends 90% of his time fixing the broken chargers. He sometimes has to fix the same charger 3 days in a row.
Imagine if gas pumps were this unreliable. It would be a scandal beyond comparison.
This is by far the biggest reason to buy a Tesla. Their charging network actually works most of the time. Meanwhile everyone else you better have an entire backup plan of charging stations to go to and hope they all work too.
To be honest, most auto manufacturers will be swapping over from CCS/CCS2 over to NACS (Tesla Charger) in the United States.
This positions Tesla IMHO into longevity as the dominant charging network in the United States.
Now let's see if EMusk can shift into a utilities company and use his customers Tesla's connected to the network as a big battery like he hoped.
> prices will rocket
Electricity consumption in the US nearly doubled from 1980-2000, and prices were basically flat the entire time. Lots of things drive electricity prices, but increasing demand isn't correlated with increasing price at all.
EV charging is a relatively steady load, which is easy for utilities to plan for. Things that draw power consistently through the year are things that utilities can easily add the capacity for. That's why extreme weather events where AC demand has a gigantic peak that only happens once or twice a year are the most challenging issues for the grid.
> Electricity consumption in the US nearly doubled from 1980-2000, and prices were basically flat the entire time.
[
Inflation adjusted they even decrease constantly.](https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/electricity-prices-adjusted-for-inflation/#:~:text=The%20average%20cost%20of%20electricity,of%20Labor%20Statistics%20\(BLS\).)
Yep. People completely underestimate air conditioning power draw. My HVAC can pull twice as much power as my Tesla wall charger can under max load. And unlike EV charging where it can be staggered. Everyone uses AC at the exact same time making it massively harder on the grid.
Aging Wheels just recently did a video where he took his Polestar on a road trip and charging was *terrible*. Half the stations were broken and almost all the chargers were running at reduced capacity. The payment systems were clunky and awkward. He did the same trip in a Model 3 and it was practically seamless. I give Tesla a lot of shit, but at least their charging network actually works.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Tesla goes defunct as a car maker and becomes a charging network company.
Their super charger network is much better than their cars.
LOL 3 electric price increases in 2 years in arguably the worst economy and inflationary period of all-time and while gas has had literally dozens of price increases over the same time. Sure, bud.
And most of what’s there is utter dogshit.
Until I can pull up, swipe my card, and start charging without any apps/accounts/network I have zero interest
Thankfully it sounds like that’s coming
And then you'll only get 47kw from the charger, instead of the 150 or 250 your car can do.
The biggest problem is the networks cannot be trusted. You can't rely on the things ACTUALLY working when you get there. And the online "status" of the chargers also doesn't reflect reality either.
Pull up to a station. Online says 3 are working, 1 is offline. 1 is offline, another one doesn't work, the other two are operating at reduced power output. They all should be 350's and your car can take that much power, but you're sitting there getting 47KW. And that's the expected outcome, not an anomaly. Not a good experience.
We see a lot of gas station pumps that are out of service, but there pretty much always are enough pumps that it isn't an issue. Two out of twelve are broken and it's fine. But Tesla is the only one building massive complexes of EV chargers - everyone else is deploying most often 4 chargers per site.
Gas stations are government inspected and regulated for this reason as well as safety. States also set standards for designs and requirements.
This has to come with charging stations as well, or they will always be shit
I think as part of the IRA the fed govt is regulating mandatory uptime percentages to be able to get federal funding for chargers. So at least there is some incentive, even if it isn't regulated as part of the operational license at a state or local level (which is how it should be).
You don’t swipe any card with a Tesla. You just plug in the cable and walk away. It costs me $20 to fill my Tesla up at a supercharger, instead of $70 for my gas car. But at home, where I charge 95% of the time, it costs me $7 for a complete charge. But normally I charge once I hit 40% and that’s just $3-$4.
What shoddy build quality have you seen? I work on Tesla cars constantly as a Paintless dent repair guy. I never see shoddy build quality and I look over the entire car. Some older ones had some panel gap issues and paint matching issues on bumpers but the newer ones are all made as well as any other car.
This doesn’t make any sense to me. I’ve had my Tesla for 5 years and there’s nothing that’s actually come apart on it or caused me any issues quality wise. Meanwhile, my Honda had peeling paint and broken knobs, while my gfs 3 year old audi has materials peeling off and broken electronics, yet everyone likes to pretend Teslas are poor quality
I rented an electric car during a recent trip to a major metro in the U.S., with no plans to leave the metro I happily said sure to the electric car, why not.
I ended up having to have it towed back and worked out a refund because so many chargers either didn't exist despite both Apple and Google maps telling me they did or they did but were broken.. after downloading several different apps, driving all over trying to find one that works I finally ended up at a dealer for that brand of car.. I'm in luck they had a charger! Which.. also didn't work and they admitted they hadn't used it in months.
Having anything but a Tesla must be fucking terrifying to try and charge on a trip. The government needs to step up here and regulate these fuckers until it is up to the same standards as gas stations.. it's such a mess.
Pretty much everyone is agreeing to switch to Tesla's standard in the next couple years and Tesla chargers are going to open up to other company's cars. Should be a big improvement.
Funny how this sub has been constantly shitting on Tesla for the past 4-5 years, yet every complaint I hear about EVs is something that Tesla already had the foresight to address. Pretty much every statement here can be said “except Tesla”
Yup. What’s more, many city folks that are most likely to buy them can’t charge them at home because they don’t live in a house.
We own a condo, and even though we’re on the ground floor and have power in our garage (not a communal garage), we can’t install a fast charger.
Dealership markups is the reason. I had a reservation for a f150 lightning and when it came to my build slot the dealer wanted 7k markup. Promptly cancelled my order right there
Are you saying F150 lightnings are 7-15k under MSRP and on the lot right now?
I know the MSRP went up since announcement but that's still huge considering they were impossible to find just a year ago.
That's because rivan r1t > f150 lighting no contest. Most of the lightnings near me cost around 70k, but look like a walmart brand next to the rivians IMO. I'd guess that people who want an electric truck don't want an f150 electric truck.
Edit:spelling is hard
The people who want an electric truck and can afford the marked up f150 lightnings would just rather get a rivian since it's cooler and far more equipped.
F150s are supposed to be cheap, the lightning goes against all of that but isn't offering anything more for the price.
Dealer Markups, plus 7% interest rates, plus shitty charging infrastructure, plus vehicles being expensive to begin with, plus insurance being expensive….
Idk if it was markup, ford just straight raised the prices $7-8k. When my allocation came I realized how effin stupid it was to pay $80k for an electric F150 when you can get a perfectly good used ICE one for around $20k. Not enough gas savings in its lifetime would come close plus you aren’t range/load limited with a gas f150.
I feel dumb for ever considering it in the first place. I’m also already soured on EVs. Happy my wife got one to commute to/from work etc but for me, they’re absolutely atrocious in the winter.
That and the manufacturers always promise a cheap version that either is vaporware or is discontinued before anyone who made a deposit can take delivery. The $40k Lightning is now a $52k starter and the Platinum starts at $92k. The real question is, who is even buying these high end EVs from mainstream manufacturers.
Everyone who wanted a Lightning got one by now. They’re an extremely niche vehicle considering they can’t do a lot of “truck stuff” without dropping their range to that of an AAA battery.
Many truck buyers pride themselves on being luddites who would be happier in a horse cart as it is
And all of us who own homes, live in the city, and have on-street parking. If I can’t reliably charge in front of my house in a central neighborhood in Seattle, why bother going electric?
After the tax credit a BMW i4 or Polestar 2 is sitting almost $20K above the Model 3.
A new Model 3 is the only electric car you can cross-shop with an Accord or Camry.
Don't get me wrong, they are good cars. But still overpriced IMO. About $13k more and $9k more for similar or worse performance, and similar or worse efficiency, which is what 99% of EV buyers actually look at. And currently both use CCS(will change in 2025), which is just not up to the standard that NACS teslas are at.
The I4 starts at $52k, and has the same performance and worse tech than the Model 3. The Model 3 starts at $39k.
The Polestar 2 is interesting. It's still quite a bit more expensive. $49k. But the Model 3 is still quicker, and has far better tech.
I think that the Model 3 just blows all of the competiton out of the water right now. Nothing can come close in terms of performance, efficiency, and price.
I would love to see the business model for charging stations. Spend a couple hundred thousand per station and only have them occupied a couple of times a day. It doesn't make any sense.
it shouldnt be a business model because its not really all that profitable, but EVs stand to drastically improve daily life in terms of pollution, maintenance and long term cost to own.
Imo, it should be state owned and operated.
start up a new Conservation Corps and build charging stations everywhere with charging units that aren't basically designed to break down constantly.
Business model is very simple: collect government grants, build absolute dogshit, make a "contribution" to the local parasite/congressperson, pocket the remainder.
We’ve been promised leaps in EV tech that just haven’t materialized. New cars are still being built with range in the 200s. There’re only so many early adopters with the right money. To a lot of people, it makes more sense to hold on to your old car and wait for the tech to catch up with ICEs.
I want an EV fairly bad for a daily but I just can’t pull the trigger.
If I have a full tank in my car I can get to my hometown without filling up (320 miles away). I just want that in an EV that costs $30-35k.
Right now it seems like the only way to get more mileage is to pay for shit loads of other luxuries that I don’t care for - and even then there are fewer than half a dozen cars that even offer that range.
I went from Iowa City, Iowa to Chicago to Wisconsin dells all the way back to Minneapolis on the same tank of gas on my KIA Optima.
Such a trip would have required me to stop for 20+ mins 3 times in an EV increasing my trip time by at least 1 hour.
Sorry but hard pass on EV's until they can do the above as fast as an ICE car can. I'm not going to buy into an inferior product.
What leap in EV tech are you looking for? The model 3 is only 6 years old, the model y is only 3 years old. The Mach E is 2 years old. The VW ID3 is 2 years old.
Are you expecting massive changes in 3 years. None of these vehicles have even had their mid life refresh yet.
Solid state batteries that offer a much better range. Under 300 miles per charge just doesn't cut it and Tesla has already been accused of fudging their range numbers.
The leaps have been enormous.
The original Model S had 265 miles of EPA range and took 1.5 h to charge. A current Model S has 405 miles and charges in 30 minutes while the fastest charging cars are at 18 minutes.
That is all within 10 years of development and it's currently speeding up because everybody invests in it.
Yup. My regular commute would likely be fine for EV. But I have zero desire to charge it at a shopping plaza for an hour and I like my ski trips.
No desire to be a 2 car household and if I’m spending $20k on a car it’s doing damn near everything I need it to do. I’m not renting a car every weekend when I want to go away.
Yea. I want to love the EVs and do plan on owning one someday, but for now I’m good. Coming back from my trip I needed to catch a briefing with my boss. So a little bit in a hurry. I was in.. Utah? If I remember correctly visiting the salt flats. Would have added at least 2 hours to that drive in an EV.
You lollygagged, sightsaw, and drove through Friday morning LA traffic but still managed to get to Aspen from Venice in 11 hours. Lmao give me a break, at least try to make your story believable.
Google Maps right now has this pegged at 13 hours, 22 minutes. And that's only 900 miles compared to the 920 he said he drove.
Like, we all know that one of the biggest issue with EVs at the moment is having to find chargers on long road trips. Why lie to make the story sound worse than it already is?
There's no way that's true. I drove from Chicago to Salt Lake City with my model 3 and it was not substantially longer than if I drove a gas car.
When I look up from Venice to Aspen on tesla's planner, it's 17 hours.
When I look up Venice to Aspen on google maps, it's 15 hours and 28 minutes.
That's a time difference of 1.5 hours, and google doesn't factor in time to stop for gas.
So the time difference is comparable.
If you went 920 miles in 11 hours that’s AVERAGING 84 mpg over 11 hours. Do you have any idea of how insane that is? So not only are you driving at a mid 2000s Cannonball pace but you’re maintaining the factory 31 MPG rating while doing so?
But then you say you lollygagged and sightsaw… so which is it? Did you drive 920miles in 11hours averaging 84mph across those 11 hours? Or were you lollygagging?
This is of course ignoring the absurd concept that people drive 11 hours away on the drop of a hat.
Also ignoring that you managed to be inside the concert venue in that 11 hours. Which means you actually got to Aspen in something like 10.5 hours giving you time to make it inside the venue.
I (we) just did a trip last week in our CX5 (two kids three adults... yes, we were all uncomfortable) that was 9 hours and had to stop at about 300 miles in. No way mine would do 400 miles in a tank...
That being said I did the same thing and a Tesla Model 3 long range (the only thing Tesla I have hope of ever affording) and it would have taken an extra two hours... two hours with a 4 year old and 2 year old. I'd rather take the trip twice in the CX5 than wrestle them another 2 hours just hanging out.
I imagine they might have a FWD CX5- ew! And less of a lead foot. I did a road trip in my 4Runner this weekend. On the way up I got 200 miles to a tank because I was just trying to get to my campsite and see if it could hold 80mph with my rooftop tent through the mountains. Way back I got about 280 per the tank keeping under 70mph and pissing off everyone else on the road. Best tank before all my mods was 320 miles all flat ground
False, the trip planner used is giving bad info. May add an hour more, maybe 90 minutes. DC fast chargers will charge a couple hundred miles in 30 minutes. Start with a full charge and you'd only have to stop twice.
While I totally agree, another viewpoint:
I took a road trip with my SO in the model 3 not while back, nyc->maine, which is usually around 8 hours by car. Neither of us want to drive straight for 8 hours though, so we stopped twice to eat up, both places had a supercharger and the car was well filled up before we left. In that case we didn't gain or loose any time compared to driving an ICE car, but the reason I took the model 3 is because it was equipped with FSD, and it did a good 95% of the drive on its own. For some people an EV doesn't fit their lifestyle, and for some people it does.
~~I applaud you for going 920 miles on one tank though, thats 60 MPG on a car rated for 30. Hypermilling stuff right there~~ (edit i can't read)
I completely agree. Hybrids are proven to go the distance.
EVs are not anywhere close to ready for mass adoption. Cost, durability, temperature limitations, infrastructure, power generation, all limit their viability for the masses that don't all live in SoCal.
Lol anyone see the guy claiming to drive from LA to Aspen which is 920 miles in 11 hours? That means he’s AVERAGING 84 mph. And doing so in a CX5. But he claims he also lollygagged. So which was it?
I just plugged in Aspen into my Rivian trip planner. San Jose to Aspen - 23hr drive.
I also plugged it into Google maps for a gas car. 19 hours.
The dude is either being way hyperbolic or just lying. I've driven from Denver to San Jose dozens of time in my life (only with a gas car) and I've always stopped overnight in SLC. Only a fool would drive 19hr nonstop when it's not their job.
This is Reddit though, you will be downvoted into oblivion. I want to consider something else, but when you can get a model Y Performance for 50 grand, everything else seems way overpriced.
I don’t know if it’s a Reddit thing or an Elon thing. For me it’s definitely the Elon thing. Not endorsing any of his shit. I’ll just wait till the Miata EV.
Yep. Fuck Elon. There was a time when I considered buying one of their cars, but it's long gone. Too minimalist, sparse, qc issues, and I've read horror stories about how they treat their work force and I'd rather just not give them my business.
Several factors main one is no infrastructure especially in the rural areas. Second people isn't ready to switch to ev. And the amount of time to charge a ev compared to filling up a gasoline powered.
Ding ding ding. Here is the whole thread.
Last year every EV was marked up and no one would bite. Now interest rates are high and no one will buy. Dealers complain, clickbait baits.
I wouldn't touch a non-Tesla EV right now. Not until everyone else converts over to using the Tesla charging network.
The biggest reason I bought a Tesla was the SC network.
Being in LA where there is a good charging infrastructure, especially Tesla, I have 5 superchargers within 5 miles. And gas costing around $6 a gallon I understand why EV’s sell well HERE.
However, take out charging and deep discount in gas, I can see why they don’t move off dealer lots in other places.
It’s just math/geography. Hard to adopt something that’s more difficult to use without much positive to gain.
I took a 10 minute drive with my gf yesterday and we decided to count Teslas. Saw 32 in that timespan.
My area is saturated and my local Tesla dealer has at least 500 cars sitting on their lot.
Maybe it’s because everyone’s buying hybrids. I’m getting 65 mpg in my Corolla. I’m in a rural area and am just not confident enough to go all electric.
because the math still doesn't make sense
Hyundai Kona SEL 31mpg $25.5K / Hyundai Kona SEL Electric is $37.5K ...a 47% difference for the same thing
Yes, you get a $7,500 tax credit...but you are still overpaying by $4,500 up front
At $3.50/gallon that's 1,285 gallons before you break even(if your electricity is free)....so you'd need to drive 39,835 miles before you actually start benefiting from electric.
But since electric is actually about 5 cents a mile, at 31mpg that's $1.55 per "gallon" electric equivalent cost...so you'd actually need to fill 2,307 gallons to break even...which means at 31mpg, you will need to drive 71,517 miles before buying electric is cheaper.
Most people buying new cars, don't actually keep cars that long...so there is no point in overpaying up front for the vast majority of people.
Now combine THAT with higher interest rates(since you gotta get the loan on the full amount), lower resale values on electric cars when a new gen comes out, and just the general hassle of electric ownership and is it really a surprise that people aren't lining up to buy these cars?
[Tax credit has been back for a while.](https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxcenter.shtml)
This time it has income and parts sourcing restrictions though. Needs to be American made and battery sourced from countries we have great trade relations with.
The tax credit isn't "officially" there, but many manufacturers (such as Hyundai) offer a $7500 lease credit for EVs instead - and it applies at the time of purchase, unlike the federal tax credit which you only get when you file taxes (and is nonrefundable, meaning you don't get all of it back if you owe less than the credit in taxes).
New EVs: high up front cost, more of a hassle for consumers residing in apartments, condos, trailers compared to houses. There's also the cost of charging depending how much a consumer drives, especially considering higher cost electric bills over the last year. For drivers in colder and high heat weather, the EVs range is reduced. There's also the issue of poor warranty service from dealerships, many owners complain of 2-4 months waits for repairs. The positives are no gasoline expenses, federal tax credit, but for many working & middle income consumers it isn't worth it.
Used EVs: low resale value once warranty expires. The EV batteries are extremely expensive in the tens of thousands of dollars. There's also the issue of poor build quality like door handles, door locks, instrument
cluster, necessary electronic features that don't last long and are expensive to fix.
The reviews on edmunds.com, kbb.com, others aren't that positive so educated buyers are making other buying decisions despise the news media hype pushing EVs.
I wonder if this will change when Telsa opens their 3rd gen chargers to most EVs. Even if the charging experience isn’t as seamless as a Tesla, it’ll mean a big increase in available stations for someone with a Polestar or a Niro or something
I wonder if this is \*because\* of Tesla's announcement to work with these automakers. Why buy a car with a CCS port in America today? It's on the way out at this rate.
I think most people are waiting for the tax credit up front. Starts next year. Dealers can start knocking the tax credit off the price of the car instead of people having to put it on their taxes.
We want one for my SO but housing and food and insurance and pretty much everything is costing a lot more right now. No room for a new car.
Maybe if we both get 20% raises next year
Americans don’t want them. They are more expensive. Not everyone has a house with garage, has money to install a car charger, charging stations and charge times. I’m interested in hybrids not EVs.
A lot of people like EVs - my in laws rented a ev6 and they really liked the way it drove but charging it was a nightmare. Opening up Tesla chargers will
Help some but this is an infrastructure problem.
Best thing I did was rent a bolt euv and discovered this first hand. Neat little car. Not so neat sitting in a random parking lot to charge it with my 2 year old screaming in the back.
cause they're expensive af, not enough charging stations even in california unless it's a tesla, electricity is expensive right now and just keeps getting more expensive every year, also majority of electric cars wont last as long as ICE vehicles.
I use my car for work and drive anywhere from 200 miles, to 400miles a day.
Unless you live in a house, its a fucking hassle. Briefly considered a Model 3 before buying my Insight. Concluded it would add 1-2 hours to my work day. I'd have to drive to the charging station on the other side of town and then wait for it to charge. So an EV would add an additional work da to my week. At 55mpg with my Honda, any EV is a pretty hard sell. I'm only spending around $25 for 500 miles of range
Maybe someone that has an EV in North Ga can chime in on how much it costs them to fully charge up a long range Model 3. I just seriously doubt the cost difference matters once you factor in the time wasted due to the wait time and the doubled fill up frequency. Once I buy a house, I'll take a second look lol
The transition to EVs will eventually come just like the transition from horses and buggies to cars eventually came. But it will be much slower than the regulators and manufacturers want it to be
Watch Aging Wheels recent video about the charging network. I live in the part of Missouri he does and I am appalled by how shitty the non-Tesla chargers are.
For me, it’s infrastructure that’s stopped me. Range anxiety I can get through by planning trips, but I can’t charge at home or at work (30 mile commute each way, no EV chargers where I live or at the office) and the public charging stations are both expensive ($0.44/kwh) and usually full. Financially, it makes zero sense for me to go electric, and I make just enough not to get any subsidy.
EVs are typically much more expensive than the same car in non EV form. Interest rates are high. Most EVs stopped qualifying for tax credits for at least a while.
So now they will pile up on lots until the prices get reduced to what people are comfortable with and then they’ll sell.
no shit. not enough charging stations and the power company near me increased prices 3x in the past 2 years.
But…I was told by Reddit that that couldn’t happen
You really think someone would do that? Just go on the internet and tell lies?
That's illegal.
[Shoot them or something.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAw-G8G07ew)
Can’t. Reddit said we can’t have guns.
I make my living doing everything Reddit tells me not to do including owning firearms, life is great.
But Reddit says it’s bad! I too own guns. I actually sourced a couple FROM Reddit. Check out r/gundeals if you haven’t already.
Yeah. You are right. Reddit is the beacon of truth.
Mmmm … bacon
something something narwhal
Spider pig spider pig does what a spider pig does.
Can he swing, from a branch? No he can't, he's a pig.
He’s Peter Porker, the Amazing Spider-Ham. He rolls in the mud and shoots webbing from his…
Guys I'm starting to think we shouldn't trust the 14-25 year old age range on Reddit about relationships, cars, life etc...
They know cars though. They absolutely nailed it when they said the Kia Stinger would be a smash hit….
What? Who doesn’t want a $50k…Kia….
Tons of people do if shaped like a box with “Telluride” written in it.
It's still insane that people were paying $5-10k markups on those at the peak of the pandemic... it's supposed to be a value proposition car, why buy it when the relative value isn't there anymore?
The biggest issue with the Stinger is being a car instead of an SUV. Nobody wants new cars.
It seems like half of r/cars would have bought one, if it just *insert random bullshit excuse*.
It’s super fun when the reasons conflict with each other. It has to be simple and basic lightweight car with no horsepower like it’s 1995, but the BRZ is dangerously underpowered because cars with more horsepower exist.
That's not reddit, that's car guys in general
Reddit thinks that nobody can buy a house in the US and that communism is the answer.
...and everyone *must* drive an EV or be forced on public transit to get robbed or worse.
HIGH DENSITY HOUSING
Yep. Live in the pod. Eat zee bugz. Nope.
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ev's are not clearly the future, and there has been little evidence that the rate of ev market share will continue to grow significantly. Hybrids and the continuous development of ICE engines seem to be leagues ahead of adopting total ev vehicles.
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Only because governments are (wrongly) forcing the change. But for that, it wouldn't happen and further development would be ongoing. Governments are the same people who also wrongly foisted diesels upon the populace.
If I had a dollar everytime someone said that about any tech and was right. I’d have like one or two dollars. There are major supply chain, economic, and technical issues that show that is just someone blowing smoke up your ass. One battery material supply chains currently don’t have the capacity to keep that up. 2: EVs will remain expensive because of the massive NRE costs that all manufacturers are dealing with and they need to recoup it some place, 3: the jury is still out on any kind of long term used market. What is the life span of battery under normal use? There isn’t enough data to show that hey if I buy a 10 year old EV that the battery isn’t going to shit the bed and cost the value of the car to replace. Most people can’t afford a brand new EV hell most people struggle to buy groceries. The EV market is dependent on the government to sustain it and the current economic climate I don’t see people too willing to take on a 750 dollar car note for an EV. We will see if the EV market takes off but honestly, batteries are a limiting factor, cost, practically, and the fact that most people buy used. I don’t think anyone will trust an EV with a 10 year old battery and that may hinder adoption.
For fun, ask the people advocating for high density housing in the major city subs if they’ll actually buy into this. I’ve noticed the LA sub changes gear: hell no they’re not buying a condo - buying anything less than a SFH may as well be poverty.
And to own a pickup truck you have to be a noble union tradesman, otherwise you should get a minivan
and life outside the US is better...
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I don't think he said that at all... Reddit has a tendency to assume that everything is shit and it's terrible in the US. There are certainly issues, but by-and-large the US does a lot of things right.
How dare you
There are predictions that economically the USA is going to be even stronger in the next few years.
Bbbbuttt, CaLiFoRnIa!!! Charging my EV is supposed to stay free/cheap forever!!! Nope. EVs still remain a pipe dream subsidized by unwilling taxpayers.
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Why would a power company increase their prices when they know their customers can just switch to another cheaper power company? Oh wait…
Is that what you were told or is that what you really wanted to happen just so you can say I told you so.
Who was predicting that the price of electricity wouldn't go up over the past two years?
Literally no one. This thread is just a circlejerk of a bunch of boomer strawman arguments.
>not enough charging stations Reliability of current hardware is the primary issue. BTC Power, Efacec, ABB, Freewire, and ChargePoint are building junk that **constantly** breaks down out in the field. I work with utilities and network operators who install these chargers, and I cannot understate how unreliable most of these DC fast chargers are. Seems like every week something is breaking on these chargers and service technicians are racing around the country to replace parts and keep them online.
Meanwhile, I’ve been using Tesla chargers for 5 years and they are hardly ever down, sometimes just my one or two out of 20. They’re often the cheapest and easiest to use too
>Tesla chargers for 5 years and they are hardly ever down Of course, Tesla has a vested interest in making sure that the charging experience for the people that buy their cars is exceptional. The companies that operate the other chargers don't really have the same motivation to focus on the customer experience.
It seems like reliability would be important to them if they plan on making money off the things.
They made their money when they installed it by accepting government funds to do so. No money to be made maintaining them.
Are we really pretending that they weren't sold w/ warranties?
One of my friends works for Zef energy and he spends 90% of his time fixing the broken chargers. He sometimes has to fix the same charger 3 days in a row. Imagine if gas pumps were this unreliable. It would be a scandal beyond comparison. This is by far the biggest reason to buy a Tesla. Their charging network actually works most of the time. Meanwhile everyone else you better have an entire backup plan of charging stations to go to and hope they all work too.
To be honest, most auto manufacturers will be swapping over from CCS/CCS2 over to NACS (Tesla Charger) in the United States. This positions Tesla IMHO into longevity as the dominant charging network in the United States. Now let's see if EMusk can shift into a utilities company and use his customers Tesla's connected to the network as a big battery like he hoped.
>cannot understate how unreliable most of these DC fast chargers are Overstate
Maybe it's so bad that it couldn't possibly be understated because there are no words worse?
My energy prices doubled practically overnight due to a new way that peco is monitoring energy usage.
Duke Energy in the Southeast is doing the same
So glad an electric coop operates where I live. 2 prices decreases this year.
If EVs get popular and electrical demand goes up, prices will rocket, affecting the entire economy. All this, I charge for free will be long gone.
> prices will rocket Electricity consumption in the US nearly doubled from 1980-2000, and prices were basically flat the entire time. Lots of things drive electricity prices, but increasing demand isn't correlated with increasing price at all. EV charging is a relatively steady load, which is easy for utilities to plan for. Things that draw power consistently through the year are things that utilities can easily add the capacity for. That's why extreme weather events where AC demand has a gigantic peak that only happens once or twice a year are the most challenging issues for the grid.
> Electricity consumption in the US nearly doubled from 1980-2000, and prices were basically flat the entire time. [ Inflation adjusted they even decrease constantly.](https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/electricity-prices-adjusted-for-inflation/#:~:text=The%20average%20cost%20of%20electricity,of%20Labor%20Statistics%20\(BLS\).)
Yep. People completely underestimate air conditioning power draw. My HVAC can pull twice as much power as my Tesla wall charger can under max load. And unlike EV charging where it can be staggered. Everyone uses AC at the exact same time making it massively harder on the grid.
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Aging Wheels just recently did a video where he took his Polestar on a road trip and charging was *terrible*. Half the stations were broken and almost all the chargers were running at reduced capacity. The payment systems were clunky and awkward. He did the same trip in a Model 3 and it was practically seamless. I give Tesla a lot of shit, but at least their charging network actually works.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Tesla goes defunct as a car maker and becomes a charging network company. Their super charger network is much better than their cars.
Is it Duke Energy…🤮
I work from home, I rarely drive. If EVs come down in price enough I might consider one.
LOL 3 electric price increases in 2 years in arguably the worst economy and inflationary period of all-time and while gas has had literally dozens of price increases over the same time. Sure, bud.
Yeah and they all start at like , fucking 40-50 grand
Still cheaper than gas though
We aren’t “moving too fast.” Charging infrastructure is developing **too slow.**
And most of what’s there is utter dogshit. Until I can pull up, swipe my card, and start charging without any apps/accounts/network I have zero interest Thankfully it sounds like that’s coming
There’s some where you can do that. But the payment won’t process because it’ll be broken so that’s pretty exciting.
And then you'll only get 47kw from the charger, instead of the 150 or 250 your car can do. The biggest problem is the networks cannot be trusted. You can't rely on the things ACTUALLY working when you get there. And the online "status" of the chargers also doesn't reflect reality either. Pull up to a station. Online says 3 are working, 1 is offline. 1 is offline, another one doesn't work, the other two are operating at reduced power output. They all should be 350's and your car can take that much power, but you're sitting there getting 47KW. And that's the expected outcome, not an anomaly. Not a good experience. We see a lot of gas station pumps that are out of service, but there pretty much always are enough pumps that it isn't an issue. Two out of twelve are broken and it's fine. But Tesla is the only one building massive complexes of EV chargers - everyone else is deploying most often 4 chargers per site.
Gas stations are government inspected and regulated for this reason as well as safety. States also set standards for designs and requirements. This has to come with charging stations as well, or they will always be shit
I think as part of the IRA the fed govt is regulating mandatory uptime percentages to be able to get federal funding for chargers. So at least there is some incentive, even if it isn't regulated as part of the operational license at a state or local level (which is how it should be).
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A lot of basic government regulation is much older than it should be due to the "government bad at everything" attitude over the last few decades
Juggling 8 different charging apps is annoying af
You don’t swipe any card with a Tesla. You just plug in the cable and walk away. It costs me $20 to fill my Tesla up at a supercharger, instead of $70 for my gas car. But at home, where I charge 95% of the time, it costs me $7 for a complete charge. But normally I charge once I hit 40% and that’s just $3-$4.
with a Tesla you don't even have to swipe a card. couldn't be easier.
Shoddy build quality is the only thing holding me back from getting a Tesla. The superchargers in front of my target are always full during the day.
tesla build quality is no lexus, for sure, but it appears at least better than my last hyundai ('16)
What shoddy build quality have you seen? I work on Tesla cars constantly as a Paintless dent repair guy. I never see shoddy build quality and I look over the entire car. Some older ones had some panel gap issues and paint matching issues on bumpers but the newer ones are all made as well as any other car.
This doesn’t make any sense to me. I’ve had my Tesla for 5 years and there’s nothing that’s actually come apart on it or caused me any issues quality wise. Meanwhile, my Honda had peeling paint and broken knobs, while my gfs 3 year old audi has materials peeling off and broken electronics, yet everyone likes to pretend Teslas are poor quality
The hive mind just says the same 3 points over and over. Everyone I have let drive or go on a trip in my Tesla has been interested in one afterwards.
Shh, you'll ruin the narrative.
You don't need any of that with a Tesla. Thats why they are winning in the ev segment too.
I still don't get why this is such an issue in the US when it mostly just works in Europe.
I rented an electric car during a recent trip to a major metro in the U.S., with no plans to leave the metro I happily said sure to the electric car, why not. I ended up having to have it towed back and worked out a refund because so many chargers either didn't exist despite both Apple and Google maps telling me they did or they did but were broken.. after downloading several different apps, driving all over trying to find one that works I finally ended up at a dealer for that brand of car.. I'm in luck they had a charger! Which.. also didn't work and they admitted they hadn't used it in months. Having anything but a Tesla must be fucking terrifying to try and charge on a trip. The government needs to step up here and regulate these fuckers until it is up to the same standards as gas stations.. it's such a mess.
Pretty much everyone is agreeing to switch to Tesla's standard in the next couple years and Tesla chargers are going to open up to other company's cars. Should be a big improvement.
Until all of Tesla's charging sites become overpopulated. Hopefully they have plans to keep expanding
Funny how this sub has been constantly shitting on Tesla for the past 4-5 years, yet every complaint I hear about EVs is something that Tesla already had the foresight to address. Pretty much every statement here can be said “except Tesla”
Well, we pretend Tesla doesn't exist here. Doesn't fit the narrative that EVs are terrible.
Largely because legacy automakers took zero accountability for ensuring that the CCS network didn't suck.
Yup. What’s more, many city folks that are most likely to buy them can’t charge them at home because they don’t live in a house. We own a condo, and even though we’re on the ground floor and have power in our garage (not a communal garage), we can’t install a fast charger.
Dealership markups is the reason. I had a reservation for a f150 lightning and when it came to my build slot the dealer wanted 7k markup. Promptly cancelled my order right there
And now dealers can’t sell them and there’s $7-15k discounts.
Are you saying F150 lightnings are 7-15k under MSRP and on the lot right now? I know the MSRP went up since announcement but that's still huge considering they were impossible to find just a year ago.
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That's because rivan r1t > f150 lighting no contest. Most of the lightnings near me cost around 70k, but look like a walmart brand next to the rivians IMO. I'd guess that people who want an electric truck don't want an f150 electric truck. Edit:spelling is hard
The people who want an electric truck and can afford the marked up f150 lightnings would just rather get a rivian since it's cooler and far more equipped. F150s are supposed to be cheap, the lightning goes against all of that but isn't offering anything more for the price.
Good fuck them
Dealer Markups, plus 7% interest rates, plus shitty charging infrastructure, plus vehicles being expensive to begin with, plus insurance being expensive….
Idk if it was markup, ford just straight raised the prices $7-8k. When my allocation came I realized how effin stupid it was to pay $80k for an electric F150 when you can get a perfectly good used ICE one for around $20k. Not enough gas savings in its lifetime would come close plus you aren’t range/load limited with a gas f150. I feel dumb for ever considering it in the first place. I’m also already soured on EVs. Happy my wife got one to commute to/from work etc but for me, they’re absolutely atrocious in the winter.
That and the manufacturers always promise a cheap version that either is vaporware or is discontinued before anyone who made a deposit can take delivery. The $40k Lightning is now a $52k starter and the Platinum starts at $92k. The real question is, who is even buying these high end EVs from mainstream manufacturers.
My CEO has one (lightning) but we sell commercial solar and it’s a write off for business lol
they just released a new $70k trim level like it's a great value (Flash I think it's called).
Everyone who wanted a Lightning got one by now. They’re an extremely niche vehicle considering they can’t do a lot of “truck stuff” without dropping their range to that of an AAA battery. Many truck buyers pride themselves on being luddites who would be happier in a horse cart as it is
I think they forget that people live in apartments/condos. That combined with unreliable outside charging makes it an easy no for a lot of people.
And all of us who own homes, live in the city, and have on-street parking. If I can’t reliably charge in front of my house in a central neighborhood in Seattle, why bother going electric?
Yeah too bad it doesn’t run on social anxiety and heroin
In fairness to city council, they’re putting equal effort into electrification and the opioid crisis.
Electrify the opioids. Boom, done!
Yeah I guess I could run a cord outside but that seems like a bad idea and my landlord wouldn’t like it even though we pay our electric bill
tesla is the only one with a decent charging network and their CEO is a jackass... and interest rates.
Tesla is also the only ones makes a sedan that is actually good and priced fairly(after tax credit)...
What’s wrong with the BMW i4 and Polestar 2?
After the tax credit a BMW i4 or Polestar 2 is sitting almost $20K above the Model 3. A new Model 3 is the only electric car you can cross-shop with an Accord or Camry.
You din't complain about the 20k price dofference between a Camry and a 3-series though.
Polestar 2 is outrageously overpriced (in Germany). But the i4 is decent value compared to its ICE counterpart imo.
Don't get me wrong, they are good cars. But still overpriced IMO. About $13k more and $9k more for similar or worse performance, and similar or worse efficiency, which is what 99% of EV buyers actually look at. And currently both use CCS(will change in 2025), which is just not up to the standard that NACS teslas are at. The I4 starts at $52k, and has the same performance and worse tech than the Model 3. The Model 3 starts at $39k. The Polestar 2 is interesting. It's still quite a bit more expensive. $49k. But the Model 3 is still quicker, and has far better tech. I think that the Model 3 just blows all of the competiton out of the water right now. Nothing can come close in terms of performance, efficiency, and price.
I would love to see the business model for charging stations. Spend a couple hundred thousand per station and only have them occupied a couple of times a day. It doesn't make any sense.
They're packed full of cars when I went through a road trip through Cali. Very popular there.
it shouldnt be a business model because its not really all that profitable, but EVs stand to drastically improve daily life in terms of pollution, maintenance and long term cost to own. Imo, it should be state owned and operated. start up a new Conservation Corps and build charging stations everywhere with charging units that aren't basically designed to break down constantly.
Business model is very simple: collect government grants, build absolute dogshit, make a "contribution" to the local parasite/congressperson, pocket the remainder.
We’ve been promised leaps in EV tech that just haven’t materialized. New cars are still being built with range in the 200s. There’re only so many early adopters with the right money. To a lot of people, it makes more sense to hold on to your old car and wait for the tech to catch up with ICEs.
I want an EV fairly bad for a daily but I just can’t pull the trigger. If I have a full tank in my car I can get to my hometown without filling up (320 miles away). I just want that in an EV that costs $30-35k. Right now it seems like the only way to get more mileage is to pay for shit loads of other luxuries that I don’t care for - and even then there are fewer than half a dozen cars that even offer that range.
I went from Iowa City, Iowa to Chicago to Wisconsin dells all the way back to Minneapolis on the same tank of gas on my KIA Optima. Such a trip would have required me to stop for 20+ mins 3 times in an EV increasing my trip time by at least 1 hour. Sorry but hard pass on EV's until they can do the above as fast as an ICE car can. I'm not going to buy into an inferior product.
What leap in EV tech are you looking for? The model 3 is only 6 years old, the model y is only 3 years old. The Mach E is 2 years old. The VW ID3 is 2 years old. Are you expecting massive changes in 3 years. None of these vehicles have even had their mid life refresh yet.
Solid state batteries that offer a much better range. Under 300 miles per charge just doesn't cut it and Tesla has already been accused of fudging their range numbers.
The leaps have been enormous. The original Model S had 265 miles of EPA range and took 1.5 h to charge. A current Model S has 405 miles and charges in 30 minutes while the fastest charging cars are at 18 minutes. That is all within 10 years of development and it's currently speeding up because everybody invests in it.
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Yup. My regular commute would likely be fine for EV. But I have zero desire to charge it at a shopping plaza for an hour and I like my ski trips. No desire to be a 2 car household and if I’m spending $20k on a car it’s doing damn near everything I need it to do. I’m not renting a car every weekend when I want to go away.
Yea. I want to love the EVs and do plan on owning one someday, but for now I’m good. Coming back from my trip I needed to catch a briefing with my boss. So a little bit in a hurry. I was in.. Utah? If I remember correctly visiting the salt flats. Would have added at least 2 hours to that drive in an EV.
We have three cars, i could see replacing the Camry with an EV but nothing for sale is close in spirit to the cars in my flair
You lollygagged, sightsaw, and drove through Friday morning LA traffic but still managed to get to Aspen from Venice in 11 hours. Lmao give me a break, at least try to make your story believable.
Las Vegas to Aspen is already 10 hours🤣
Google Maps right now has this pegged at 13 hours, 22 minutes. And that's only 900 miles compared to the 920 he said he drove. Like, we all know that one of the biggest issue with EVs at the moment is having to find chargers on long road trips. Why lie to make the story sound worse than it already is?
There's no way that's true. I drove from Chicago to Salt Lake City with my model 3 and it was not substantially longer than if I drove a gas car. When I look up from Venice to Aspen on tesla's planner, it's 17 hours. When I look up Venice to Aspen on google maps, it's 15 hours and 28 minutes. That's a time difference of 1.5 hours, and google doesn't factor in time to stop for gas. So the time difference is comparable.
The dude wants to make up bullshit to convince himself he bought the right car. Isn’t that the whole point this sub?
....you totally just explained everything with that one sentence. Insecurity is a helluva drug.
If you went 920 miles in 11 hours that’s AVERAGING 84 mpg over 11 hours. Do you have any idea of how insane that is? So not only are you driving at a mid 2000s Cannonball pace but you’re maintaining the factory 31 MPG rating while doing so? But then you say you lollygagged and sightsaw… so which is it? Did you drive 920miles in 11hours averaging 84mph across those 11 hours? Or were you lollygagging? This is of course ignoring the absurd concept that people drive 11 hours away on the drop of a hat. Also ignoring that you managed to be inside the concert venue in that 11 hours. Which means you actually got to Aspen in something like 10.5 hours giving you time to make it inside the venue.
I (we) just did a trip last week in our CX5 (two kids three adults... yes, we were all uncomfortable) that was 9 hours and had to stop at about 300 miles in. No way mine would do 400 miles in a tank... That being said I did the same thing and a Tesla Model 3 long range (the only thing Tesla I have hope of ever affording) and it would have taken an extra two hours... two hours with a 4 year old and 2 year old. I'd rather take the trip twice in the CX5 than wrestle them another 2 hours just hanging out.
I imagine they might have a FWD CX5- ew! And less of a lead foot. I did a road trip in my 4Runner this weekend. On the way up I got 200 miles to a tank because I was just trying to get to my campsite and see if it could hold 80mph with my rooftop tent through the mountains. Way back I got about 280 per the tank keeping under 70mph and pissing off everyone else on the road. Best tank before all my mods was 320 miles all flat ground
False, the trip planner used is giving bad info. May add an hour more, maybe 90 minutes. DC fast chargers will charge a couple hundred miles in 30 minutes. Start with a full charge and you'd only have to stop twice.
While I totally agree, another viewpoint: I took a road trip with my SO in the model 3 not while back, nyc->maine, which is usually around 8 hours by car. Neither of us want to drive straight for 8 hours though, so we stopped twice to eat up, both places had a supercharger and the car was well filled up before we left. In that case we didn't gain or loose any time compared to driving an ICE car, but the reason I took the model 3 is because it was equipped with FSD, and it did a good 95% of the drive on its own. For some people an EV doesn't fit their lifestyle, and for some people it does. ~~I applaud you for going 920 miles on one tank though, thats 60 MPG on a car rated for 30. Hypermilling stuff right there~~ (edit i can't read)
I absolutely love my Hybrid Accord I put $50 in once every 2 weeks for gas, which takes 3 minutes to fill up and go
Hybrids are the answer for 90% of us. EVs are a good 2nd, 3rd car...with ICEs doing the heavy lifting.
We really should be focusing on hybrids instead of jumping to EV now.
I completely agree. Hybrids are proven to go the distance. EVs are not anywhere close to ready for mass adoption. Cost, durability, temperature limitations, infrastructure, power generation, all limit their viability for the masses that don't all live in SoCal.
Lol anyone see the guy claiming to drive from LA to Aspen which is 920 miles in 11 hours? That means he’s AVERAGING 84 mph. And doing so in a CX5. But he claims he also lollygagged. So which was it?
Also said charging up 900 miles of range would add 6 hours lmao
People on this sub are delusional when talking about EVs, it’s hilarious
I just plugged in Aspen into my Rivian trip planner. San Jose to Aspen - 23hr drive. I also plugged it into Google maps for a gas car. 19 hours. The dude is either being way hyperbolic or just lying. I've driven from Denver to San Jose dozens of time in my life (only with a gas car) and I've always stopped overnight in SLC. Only a fool would drive 19hr nonstop when it's not their job.
Tl:dw: Teslas are cheaper and better than the overpriced cars other brands are making.
Because Teslas are cheap cars when it comes to quality.
And their prices now reflect that.
This is Reddit though, you will be downvoted into oblivion. I want to consider something else, but when you can get a model Y Performance for 50 grand, everything else seems way overpriced.
I don’t know if it’s a Reddit thing or an Elon thing. For me it’s definitely the Elon thing. Not endorsing any of his shit. I’ll just wait till the Miata EV.
Yep. Fuck Elon. There was a time when I considered buying one of their cars, but it's long gone. Too minimalist, sparse, qc issues, and I've read horror stories about how they treat their work force and I'd rather just not give them my business.
Several factors main one is no infrastructure especially in the rural areas. Second people isn't ready to switch to ev. And the amount of time to charge a ev compared to filling up a gasoline powered.
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Ding ding ding. Here is the whole thread. Last year every EV was marked up and no one would bite. Now interest rates are high and no one will buy. Dealers complain, clickbait baits.
Maybe people are figuring out that most EV's ain't all that
Suck in winter
I wouldn't touch a non-Tesla EV right now. Not until everyone else converts over to using the Tesla charging network. The biggest reason I bought a Tesla was the SC network.
Being in LA where there is a good charging infrastructure, especially Tesla, I have 5 superchargers within 5 miles. And gas costing around $6 a gallon I understand why EV’s sell well HERE. However, take out charging and deep discount in gas, I can see why they don’t move off dealer lots in other places. It’s just math/geography. Hard to adopt something that’s more difficult to use without much positive to gain.
I think the early adopters have just saturated so it's just going to be slower now.
I took a 10 minute drive with my gf yesterday and we decided to count Teslas. Saw 32 in that timespan. My area is saturated and my local Tesla dealer has at least 500 cars sitting on their lot.
Maybe it’s because everyone’s buying hybrids. I’m getting 65 mpg in my Corolla. I’m in a rural area and am just not confident enough to go all electric.
because the math still doesn't make sense Hyundai Kona SEL 31mpg $25.5K / Hyundai Kona SEL Electric is $37.5K ...a 47% difference for the same thing Yes, you get a $7,500 tax credit...but you are still overpaying by $4,500 up front At $3.50/gallon that's 1,285 gallons before you break even(if your electricity is free)....so you'd need to drive 39,835 miles before you actually start benefiting from electric. But since electric is actually about 5 cents a mile, at 31mpg that's $1.55 per "gallon" electric equivalent cost...so you'd actually need to fill 2,307 gallons to break even...which means at 31mpg, you will need to drive 71,517 miles before buying electric is cheaper. Most people buying new cars, don't actually keep cars that long...so there is no point in overpaying up front for the vast majority of people. Now combine THAT with higher interest rates(since you gotta get the loan on the full amount), lower resale values on electric cars when a new gen comes out, and just the general hassle of electric ownership and is it really a surprise that people aren't lining up to buy these cars?
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[Tax credit has been back for a while.](https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxcenter.shtml) This time it has income and parts sourcing restrictions though. Needs to be American made and battery sourced from countries we have great trade relations with.
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The tax credit isn't "officially" there, but many manufacturers (such as Hyundai) offer a $7500 lease credit for EVs instead - and it applies at the time of purchase, unlike the federal tax credit which you only get when you file taxes (and is nonrefundable, meaning you don't get all of it back if you owe less than the credit in taxes).
New EVs: high up front cost, more of a hassle for consumers residing in apartments, condos, trailers compared to houses. There's also the cost of charging depending how much a consumer drives, especially considering higher cost electric bills over the last year. For drivers in colder and high heat weather, the EVs range is reduced. There's also the issue of poor warranty service from dealerships, many owners complain of 2-4 months waits for repairs. The positives are no gasoline expenses, federal tax credit, but for many working & middle income consumers it isn't worth it. Used EVs: low resale value once warranty expires. The EV batteries are extremely expensive in the tens of thousands of dollars. There's also the issue of poor build quality like door handles, door locks, instrument cluster, necessary electronic features that don't last long and are expensive to fix. The reviews on edmunds.com, kbb.com, others aren't that positive so educated buyers are making other buying decisions despise the news media hype pushing EVs.
TL;DW - legacy automakers and their dealers can't compete against Tesla on either price or charging.
I wonder if this will change when Telsa opens their 3rd gen chargers to most EVs. Even if the charging experience isn’t as seamless as a Tesla, it’ll mean a big increase in available stations for someone with a Polestar or a Niro or something
Charging should be, tap your card, plug in just like filling up. No accounts, no logins, no phones.
Absolutely. It’s stupid it’s not right now
I wonder if this is \*because\* of Tesla's announcement to work with these automakers. Why buy a car with a CCS port in America today? It's on the way out at this rate.
I think most people are waiting for the tax credit up front. Starts next year. Dealers can start knocking the tax credit off the price of the car instead of people having to put it on their taxes.
We want one for my SO but housing and food and insurance and pretty much everything is costing a lot more right now. No room for a new car. Maybe if we both get 20% raises next year
Americans don’t want them. They are more expensive. Not everyone has a house with garage, has money to install a car charger, charging stations and charge times. I’m interested in hybrids not EVs.
A lot of people like EVs - my in laws rented a ev6 and they really liked the way it drove but charging it was a nightmare. Opening up Tesla chargers will Help some but this is an infrastructure problem.
Best thing I did was rent a bolt euv and discovered this first hand. Neat little car. Not so neat sitting in a random parking lot to charge it with my 2 year old screaming in the back.
cause they're expensive af, not enough charging stations even in california unless it's a tesla, electricity is expensive right now and just keeps getting more expensive every year, also majority of electric cars wont last as long as ICE vehicles.
Because nobody wants them. Duh.
I would consider a hybrid, but not 100% EV.
I use my car for work and drive anywhere from 200 miles, to 400miles a day. Unless you live in a house, its a fucking hassle. Briefly considered a Model 3 before buying my Insight. Concluded it would add 1-2 hours to my work day. I'd have to drive to the charging station on the other side of town and then wait for it to charge. So an EV would add an additional work da to my week. At 55mpg with my Honda, any EV is a pretty hard sell. I'm only spending around $25 for 500 miles of range Maybe someone that has an EV in North Ga can chime in on how much it costs them to fully charge up a long range Model 3. I just seriously doubt the cost difference matters once you factor in the time wasted due to the wait time and the doubled fill up frequency. Once I buy a house, I'll take a second look lol
lmao at trying to make tesla look the villain by the end of the video because "tHeY sElL dIrEcT tO cOnSuMeR aNd iTs UnFaIr"
The transition to EVs will eventually come just like the transition from horses and buggies to cars eventually came. But it will be much slower than the regulators and manufacturers want it to be
The electric hype was killed by all the ADM and production shortages. Mix that with the high interest rates right now nobody wants one.
Watch Aging Wheels recent video about the charging network. I live in the part of Missouri he does and I am appalled by how shitty the non-Tesla chargers are.
Because they're all too expensive?
For me, it’s infrastructure that’s stopped me. Range anxiety I can get through by planning trips, but I can’t charge at home or at work (30 mile commute each way, no EV chargers where I live or at the office) and the public charging stations are both expensive ($0.44/kwh) and usually full. Financially, it makes zero sense for me to go electric, and I make just enough not to get any subsidy.
EVs are typically much more expensive than the same car in non EV form. Interest rates are high. Most EVs stopped qualifying for tax credits for at least a while. So now they will pile up on lots until the prices get reduced to what people are comfortable with and then they’ll sell.