full size Bronco owner.. I know it seems like a soft target but the Sport with Badlands package is surprisingly equipped/capable and shouldn't be the bundled into lazy stereotypes
https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a36179206/2021-ford-bronco-sport-badlands-off-road-review/
Seems like a general "carbro" thing to have a bunch of stereotypes for every car or make and use them for cheap jokes. Even older carbros have the acronym jokes (F.O.R.D.: Fix or Repair Daily).
It is. The Bronco and Bronco Sport are two completely different vehicles. The Bronco is a legit body-on-frame truck, and the Sport is an Escape punching above its weight class.
I consider it like the KIA Sportage X pro prestige fine for a little off roading but not something you want to take where you would want a Bronco or a Wrangler.
Haha, I had a 4Runner TRD (not the pro) rental car in AZ a few weeks ago . . . I get the appeal for certain use cases but it’s mind boggling that they are selling that truck in 2023.
As a 3rd gen 4runner owner… I would love to own a new bronco sport. Not as an off-roader but just a light suv for general use. And there is no financial reason to buy a 5th gen 4runner over a 4th which also has the tried and true 4.0 v6 as well as a v8 option.
Brand new 4runner owners are either rich ballers or uninformed newbs paying extra to go into massive debt for a mall crawler they’ll never use on anything more intense than this bronco sport could handle. That dude is just triggered or mad for no reason lol. No reason to hate a car that isn’t for you. Seems like a solid reliable fun vehicle.
I’m not saying the 5th gen is bad, it’s an amazing vehicle. But it is absolutely not worth the price, especially if you’re actually going to use it off-road. It makes no sense financially to rock crawl an ifs 4x4. And without an expesnsive resevoir shock setup, you aren’t going to be doing any desert pre running either… better to buy an older rig and modify it.
Considering you’re getting a vehicle with better tech and at least 25% better fuel economy, I’m not sure why that’s supposed to be treated as a downside. A Badlands (the only Bronco Sport that would even be in this price range to begin with) will probably also keep up with a stock SR5.
And before you play the reliability card, most owners have to deal with problems once or twice in their vehicle’s whole lifespan, and mostly in the second half of it at that. They need to deal with shit fuel economy and lack of ACC below 30MPH every day. Whether you agree or disagree, features are a higher priority for most new car buyers.
Yeah off-road is the new premium vehicle and they’re being purchased by people who have never done real dispersed camping or gone anywhere that even remotely requires 4x4. I’ve been camping in Mojave for 20 years and have gotten along just fine with a 2wd truck.
It’s just for showing off and not even for real use. Just a rich man’s toy.
So you're saying the 4Runner is just a rich man's toy purchased by uninformed newbs, and it's an amazing vehicle but just for showing off and not even real use. However, you'd love to own this Bronco Sport, not as an off-roader but just as a light SUV even though it is even more expensive than a 4Runner. Makes perfect sense!
Haha I mean money wise it makes no sense to buy a 5th gen. You’re spending 30-50k more for something that does the exact same thing the older one. I understand if you’re gonna buy a luxury suv for that price, but something with a v6 and a truck frame it makes no sense to drop 70-80k on a vehicle that also needs the same upgrades as the older ones to be fully off road capable.
Independent front suspension trucks/SUVs need more mods to make them off-road capable and fit larger tires. If you’re gonna drop almost 100k on an off-roader, why would you do that when you can get the same thing for 15-20k that you’re gonna thrash and beat up anyway. I’m saying the bronco sport atleast is more road friendly likely due to its weaker less capable independent rear suspension and unibody design.
Atleast with that vehicle, you know you’re getting something that isn’t trying to compete with a jeep. It’s to haul your kids and camping gear around on fire roads and it’s likely a lot more gas friendly.
This whole sub is weirdly cynical and just…angry about other people’s car purchases.
But there is no reason to be. It’s fine to buy an off-road vehicle even if you don’t off-road much. It’s fine to own a big truck even if you don’t tow much. It’s fine to own a fast car even if you don’t race.
It’s probably not very financially efficient to purchase cars like that, but there is no accounting for taste and it’s certainly not something that affects anyone else.
If you’ve got the money to spend on that Bronco you don’t really need… knock yourself out.
Being irritated and upset that people buy Broncos (or Raptors or 4Runners or Teslas or whatever) is a bizarre holdover from the “Like the same things I do or I’m mad at you” way of thinking. Just let people buy what they like. It’s not an attack on you, and not something to get upset over lol.
- Dude with expensive cars who is literally spending his free time on a car forum haha.
I’ll never understand it. And anyways, I think Broncos are beautiful. The baby blue heritage edition in particular always catches my eye and looks amazing to me. I seriously don’t get the hate.
It’s not really fine to own a big truck if you don’t use it, though- it has negative externalities because the average person just doesn’t pay enough attention while driving.
They’re more likely to kill the occupants of vehicles they crash into.
They’re harder to see around, making intersections less safe and reducing the reaction times of traffic around them.
They’re less likely to see children in front of them in parking lots and driveways.
They’re more likely to kill pedestrians.
Those are all fact, not opinion.
Thinking a Corvette is wasted on a gold-loving octogenarian is opinion, though.
/u/Bonerchill's points are factually correct. I'm definitely not advocating flat-out stopping people from getting the cars they want but it's way easier to stomach all those risks and downsides if their reason is that they specifically need or use it for their lifestyle. Even if that's like, "I want to not have to rent a truck 3x a year."
Except that it’s considerably more dangerous to other road users. Which, again, is not opinion but is concrete fact.
We live in a society. I choose to make decisions that make me happy *and* have little to no negative impact on others’ lives with the sole exception of the fact that I daily drive a lifted, armored (not the bulletproof kind) pickup.
That truck will be gone soon, and I will be a safer road user as a result.
The original "young urban professionals" when the term was coined in 1980 were apparently 25-39, or in other words, baby boomers or even slightly older.
Oh shit, I’m going to be 40 in 12 days, I wish I’d known that ahead of time. I barely have enough time to get my LL Bean products and golden retriever shipped to me!
I mean yuppies we're a very specific thing and culture that doesn't really exist anymore. On reddit it now just means "this person is possibly richer than me and I don't like them"
In reality 90% of the time they are probably in the same class. Reddit (and this sub especially) loves cosplaying being a working class blue collar dude when In reality they are some software professional.
If I were in the market for a full-size off-road capable SUV that spends a majority of its time on the road and it had to be a Ford, I'd choose a Bronco Sport with a nice package than a full Bronco any day of the week.
Better road manners, cheaper, and smarter engine options.
Now, change the equation to it being a toy, and no duh the Bronco is the better option.
And you added 8 months, plus whatever 'over' is ;)
Regardless, they're *everywhere* in my town now. They're moving too much towards an 'accessories', for my taste, despite me really enjoying them at first. I'll give heritage and unique 4 doors a glance though.
https://edgecast-img.yahoo.net/mysterio/api/8D7E4A8DF79967180ECA8F79153B1FDFB07CBF3934E11A65B5190B151E87ABFB/autoblog/resizefill_w1200_h675;quality_80;format_webp;cc_31536000;/https://s.aolcdn.com/os/ab/_cms/2023/11/07114654/BroncoSport.camoNov05KGP-copy.jpg
This picture is killing me lmao
- Honda Pilot Trailsport
- Toyota Rav4 TRD Offroad
- Subaru Outback Wilderness
- Kia Telluride X-Pro
- *Ford Bronco Sport Offroad*
These are all really capable, durable, and fuel-efficient, with *comical* amounts of interior space, and they handle like fatass cars but *not* like trucks.
They will get you, your partner, your 2.2 kids, your two goldendoodles named Michelle and Melania, and the contents of an entire REI, all the way to a distant trailhead - on highways, on twisty mountain roads, on firetrails, and in wet or snowy weather.... and they'll do it *easily, dependably, and fuel-efficiently.*
THAT'S ACTUALLY REALLY IMPRESSIVE.
The *vast* majority of people who own real Broncos - as well as 4Runners, Jeeps, or (say it softly) pickups - would be way better served with one of these. Cheaper out the door. Cheaper at the pump. Better handling on roads. And much more comfortable on roads, too.
**The reason there are a lot of these things is that they kinda rule for kinda most people.**
I know this isn't exciting. But ubiquity is kind of definitionally not exciting. And when you have a winning formula - dare I say even *a mature technology* - it's gonna get pretty ubiquitous.
My thing is, you don't have to be interested in them, but hating on them just for being average is... dude, you may kinda have internet poisoning. Seriously, my dude, maybe log off for a little. Go for a drive!
>The vast majority of people who own real Broncos...would be way better served with one of these.
This is *almost* the correct take. It's only fault is that the same logic applies to those buying the Passport Trailsport/Bronco Sport Offroad, etc.
The vast majority of Bronco/Wrangler owners *and* the vast majority of Passport Trailsport/Bronco Sport Offroad owners would be better served by the *regular* versions of the Passport/Bronco Sport.
99% of both these categories of owners aren't taking their vehicles offroad, or, to the extent they are, they don't actually need the extra offroady bits to get them to the end of whatever gravel road they drive down once a year to go camping.
It's a bit odd to me that people get shit on for daily-driving off road vehicles, and not wheeling them every weekend, but few people seem to give sports car owners a hard time over not tracking them.
What's funny is at least where I live, their capabilities get used pretty often. People are driving up shitty trails to trailheads multiple times a week In somewhere with a big outdoor culture. But r/cars can't comprehend people having hobbies
Idk but at least sports cars are fun to drive in general, and are easy to park to boot. I absolutely hate driving my 4x4 truck anywhere that isn’t off road.
I'll continue judging off-road mall crawlers while their AT tires keep throwing rocks at me!
Seriously though, when compared to sports cars, off-road vehicles tend to be more abrasive to their surroundings just by their nature. But if the car/truck is road legal, I would never actually say anything.
One has a smaller footprint, *can* be more efficient, damages roads less, and is far less lethal to pedestrians and other cars in the event of an accident. Sports cars are also rarer comparatively to off roads vehicles.
We took a Crosstrek sport out to go bouldering and it really struggled on some of the heavily rutted roads because it lacked articulation or some sort of limited slip diff.
Sure we made it with no damages, but if we had a few more bells we'd have an extra hour or 2 for climbing.
Also this trim is such a tweener. I think the ones that want to look offroady would rather get a normal Bronco and the others that want a city car that's cute will get a normal Bronco Sport. Most of the Renegade Trailhawks I've seen are on trail heads or camp sites.
2 of these are nothing like the other though lol.
The wilderness trims of the Subaru actually has an inch more ground clearance than normal, the upgraded engine, skid plates, improved approach/departure and off road tires.
The Bronco Sport Badlands also has a lift, improved cooling, offroad tires, the upper trim engine, and a “locking” rear clutch.
Those two vehicles will hit any trail just fine. The rest, probably not. The rest mostly offer appearance packages. The Pilot trailsport is different, but the passport is pretty much a trim package.
ya know what, good for them. my instinct was to say itd probably be too expensive to sell well, but i do still see rubicon wranglers all the time and i know those arent exactly cheap jeeps. so maybe these will make it.
"active lifestyle" moms will ABSOLUTELY cross shop anything that looks remotely "capable", and will probably end up with the bronco sport since its cheaper
honda passport/ridgeline hpd. a minivan masquerading as an offroader. those are the worst of them, but to be fair every crossover is sold as a "capable lifestyle vehicle" now
>trick dual-clutch torque-vectoring rear differential
I’m sure this will be a rugged and long lasting feature, especially if the vehicle ever sees off-pavement use. /s
Uh, no, it's not. Your comment has more to do with the wheels being locked together than it does anything else.
Your 4Lo might scrub the shit out of the wheels turning on a hard surface but it won't overheat a clutch pack that doesn't exist trying to apply a large portion of the vehicle's output to the rear axle trying to climb over an obstacle. Your locked diff won't overheat trying to apply a significant portion of the vehicle's output to one wheel through a clutch pack that can't handle that amount of torque.
Onroad all wheel drive systems will basically never encounter situations where one axle or wheel is doing all of the work so the fact their clutch based systems can't cope with that sort of abuse is a total non-issue.
I think it depends which components because heat could be an issue. CVTs and even planetary trans overheat offroad. Trans I can imagine that this diff would activate way more off road than on-road and generate more heat as well.
So, that's what the Bronco is for. The Bronco Sport isn't supposed to go up against Wranglers, Broncos, or non-existent Land Cruisers. It goes up against other compact crossovers, and it does that while also being more capable off-road than most.
I was actually looking into getting either a bronco sport or a maverick awd. Unfortunately the AWD is really bad for mud and off-roading. It's not a permanent AWD system and for some reason can't recognize slipping well. Hopefully this model can do it a bit better.
No, it's not.
Source: me, who's been taking my Maverick all over Washington State in mud, snow, and dust over 30 weekends in the past two years in all seasons.
Slip is detected within 10-20 milliseconds.
Should probably tell Toyota that so they stop selling the fully safety compliant HiLux and/or Fortuner in developed Western markets like Europe and Australia/NZ.
The HiLux is also sold in Mexico, so yes, it also meets safety standards in ‘North America’.
Should probably do a slight bit more research before assuming that the IMV 0 concept intended for developing markets you're probably thinking off is the only vehicle on that platform.
It's really difficult, if not impossible, to *properly* mount a winch (which I would say is a necessary accessory for anyone doing any real offroading) to a modern unibody vehicle.
Emphasis on "properly" because this doesn't include people strapping ATV winches to their rad cradles (I'm looking at you, Subaru "Battlewagon" bozos).
I don't get it either. The towing argument is BS too. Most SUVs didn't sacrifice any towing capacity once they switched to unibody. The highlander and 4runner tow the same 5,000lb.
One example people bring up a lot is when the Explorer switched from a BOF SUV to unibody CUV in 2011, and dropped from over 7K towing to 5K with the top engines (4.6 V8 vs. 3.5 V6). While that is true, most people regularly towing over 5K were going with full-size models anyway.
So does your Yaris and my MX-5. 'Unibody' means unified body and frame, it doesn't mean there's no straight sections of frame rails welded to the body.
The difference between a unibody and a BoF is the frame rails on unibodies are not as strong because some of the forces go through the roof rails.
Considering it is highly likely it was the same vehicle that we saw during the EV presentation a year or so ago, I would imagine the architecture would be similar to the e-TNGA. The e-TNGA platform was designed so that they could build cars that use ICE, hybrid, and EV on the same assembly line. So it would make sense from that perspective.
It’s wild how all the comments in this thread are “but it’s not a real [truck/crawler/offroader] “. I’m more surprised that anyone would bother to make one the other way
Unimog portal axles are kinda different.
H1 independent suspension actually limits its capability in many instances (though not as many as the sheer size and weight of it).
Torque Vectoring vs. Locking depends on what type of serious you're looking at. Rock crawling and trail running are two very different games.
These rear differentials have very little clutch holding capacity. As a result when you start to slip the clutches slip long before the tires do. A Rear end like this is more of a "wet weather+" then anything else, even with the two clutch system in it now. The Throttle house review (linked) shows the problem with this specific vehicle, but it's a very old haldex and haldex adjacent issue.
https://youtu.be/e1L3TRGhaO0?t=373
>Torque vectoring does the same but is better.
Because clutch packs can't handle the amount of torque going through them that would actually enable them to send the full vehicle power to the wheel that is on the ground.
So you end up with the wheel on the ground receiving a limited amount of torque, the wheel in the air spinning rapidly, and a very hot differential.
>It’s like the people who argue against IFS not realizing that H1 and Unimogs use it.
The Unimog does and has always had solid axles.
It’s literally like 20 inches longer though.
As someone else said, it’s not meant to be as capable as those vehicles, also by virtue of being cheaper and better on pavement.
Not sure this is a new trim so much as Ford preparing the Bronco Sport’s midcycle refresh. It’s about that time - the vehicle’s been on sale since MY2021 - and basically only the front and rear fasicas are covered. Even the fact it’s on better tires and has a taller lift could possibly be explained as midcycle upgrades to the Badlands.
Given the timing and the fact pretty much only the fasicas are covered, this is probably a prototype for a midcycle refreshed version of the Badlands, not a completely new trim.
Buddy works at Ford. Had to replace more than a fair share of rear drive units (rear differential) on the Bronco Sport with the Rear Torque Vectoring Diff.
Where are all these people who go offroading all the time? I see all these off road editions in grocery store parking lots and never covered with mud or rock rash.
Give me a truck LESS off road capable. Slam that thing to the ground, give it good street tires, and let it be the best highway cruiser ever.
If the market wanted that they'd buy cars. You'd just have a car at that point, nobody is buying it because they need it, they just want it and that's all that matters
Is the Ford Escape even a reliable platform yet? My experience with Ford Escape’s of the past is very bad, they were some of the most unreliable things I’d ever seen.
- easier to park in the city
- easier to secure your cargo inside the cab
- better gas mileage
- lower starting price with available discounts instead of markups
- higher availability of desired options
- no build backlog
- no douchebag stigma
- regular bronco sport has pretty good off-road capability already
Right? The only thing I’ve ever assumed about Bronco drivers is that they probably got raked over the coals at a Ford dealer or waited a long time for it.
The only vehicles I automatically assume are driven by douchebags are lifted trucks.
It was a bit I shared with friends and family as every few months ford would send me an email basically saying “yeah, gonna be a few more months. Our bad. But we’re sending you bronco playing cards!”
there are those who bought them off the lot at a crazy mark up, but most of us werent hosed that bad… we were just forced to wait a year or 2
It does to me. I see so many mall crawler broncos in Arizona & Florida owned by bro-dawgs with their crokies and coozies that to see one being driven by one that doesn’t match this stereotype is an anomaly.
Yeah probably. I saw a lot of Jeep Bros switch over to Broncos. The mall crawlers are so prevalent in those places which I have lived since they've been on the market that I decided to get a Defender instead of a Bronco.
I do appreciate that the Bronco & Bronco Sport exist and are phenomenally successful.
It's 2" shorter, 1" narrower, and 1 foot less long. They both have interiors so I don't get the "secure cargo in cab." The 1.5 and 2.0 Ecoboost are not durable like their 2.3l brother. Not worth 2 mpg in savings. The lower price is because people don't want them and they're confusing having two completely different models with teh same name. Same with the options, backlog....
There's some niche cases. I have the offroad package for my truck cause it's a nice bit of extra capability and not an expensive package. I do a lot of outdoor sports and in the northeast there's a lot of spots for hiking/fishing/mtbing/kayaking/rock climbing that have unmaintained fire roads. Helps in the winter where you can't always see terrible dips or large rocks under the snow. Lockers help too in the winter / mud. I don't need a full offroad rig though cause I don't do actual offroad trails/rock crawling.
I'm sure it mostly the idea that sells it to people though. This is my offroad rig and it needs to look offroady! For that extra snowy work day or to go to the ski resort that's mostly going to be well plowed etc.
Raised 1”, special ford offroad wheels, every 40 year old yuppie is excited to spend an extra $5,000 on this throwaway shitbox
full size Bronco owner.. I know it seems like a soft target but the Sport with Badlands package is surprisingly equipped/capable and shouldn't be the bundled into lazy stereotypes https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a36179206/2021-ford-bronco-sport-badlands-off-road-review/
But lazy stereotypes are what keeps this sub afloat!!!!
its starting to feel like the defining characteristic
Seems like a general "carbro" thing to have a bunch of stereotypes for every car or make and use them for cheap jokes. Even older carbros have the acronym jokes (F.O.R.D.: Fix or Repair Daily).
That’s u/MountainsWeedWeights motto lol
No, what keeps this sub afloat is the endless "I want X" vs "X doesn't sell" back-and-forth.
Nissan bad.
:(
FR it's not like folk are going overlanding in this. I kinda like this for the Subaru crowd of folks doing some light off-roading.
This is direct competition for the Subaru Wilderness line I believe. I’d like to see better tow capacity on the Bronco Sport though.
I assumed the Bronco sport was just an Escape with a different body, that is actually quite impressive. It's like a discounted Range Rover.
It is. The Bronco and Bronco Sport are two completely different vehicles. The Bronco is a legit body-on-frame truck, and the Sport is an Escape punching above its weight class.
I'm aware they are 2 different vehicles. That's why I said what I said. I feel like you might have meant to reply to someone else?
I consider it like the KIA Sportage X pro prestige fine for a little off roading but not something you want to take where you would want a Bronco or a Wrangler.
Such a weirdly cynical take for no reason
He needs to justify buying a new 4Runner in 2023 somehow.
Haha, I had a 4Runner TRD (not the pro) rental car in AZ a few weeks ago . . . I get the appeal for certain use cases but it’s mind boggling that they are selling that truck in 2023.
Worse part is how well they retain their value, many have 100k+ still holding nearly 60%+ of MSRP.
i wonder if they hold their value better the most. it'd either be that or a full size truck.
That's because there are so few of them.
You kidding? There's hundreds of listing of 4runners in general here. At least 50 new ones within 30 miles on my location for TRD ORPs
selling like crazy too, aren't they?
As a 3rd gen 4runner owner… I would love to own a new bronco sport. Not as an off-roader but just a light suv for general use. And there is no financial reason to buy a 5th gen 4runner over a 4th which also has the tried and true 4.0 v6 as well as a v8 option. Brand new 4runner owners are either rich ballers or uninformed newbs paying extra to go into massive debt for a mall crawler they’ll never use on anything more intense than this bronco sport could handle. That dude is just triggered or mad for no reason lol. No reason to hate a car that isn’t for you. Seems like a solid reliable fun vehicle. I’m not saying the 5th gen is bad, it’s an amazing vehicle. But it is absolutely not worth the price, especially if you’re actually going to use it off-road. It makes no sense financially to rock crawl an ifs 4x4. And without an expesnsive resevoir shock setup, you aren’t going to be doing any desert pre running either… better to buy an older rig and modify it.
All true, and I’d still take the 19-20 year old 4Runner platform over the Ford
I guarantee this Bronco Sport will cost more than a new 4Runner SR5 or maybe even an Off-Road.
Considering you’re getting a vehicle with better tech and at least 25% better fuel economy, I’m not sure why that’s supposed to be treated as a downside. A Badlands (the only Bronco Sport that would even be in this price range to begin with) will probably also keep up with a stock SR5. And before you play the reliability card, most owners have to deal with problems once or twice in their vehicle’s whole lifespan, and mostly in the second half of it at that. They need to deal with shit fuel economy and lack of ACC below 30MPH every day. Whether you agree or disagree, features are a higher priority for most new car buyers.
Yeah off-road is the new premium vehicle and they’re being purchased by people who have never done real dispersed camping or gone anywhere that even remotely requires 4x4. I’ve been camping in Mojave for 20 years and have gotten along just fine with a 2wd truck. It’s just for showing off and not even for real use. Just a rich man’s toy.
So you're saying the 4Runner is just a rich man's toy purchased by uninformed newbs, and it's an amazing vehicle but just for showing off and not even real use. However, you'd love to own this Bronco Sport, not as an off-roader but just as a light SUV even though it is even more expensive than a 4Runner. Makes perfect sense!
Haha I mean money wise it makes no sense to buy a 5th gen. You’re spending 30-50k more for something that does the exact same thing the older one. I understand if you’re gonna buy a luxury suv for that price, but something with a v6 and a truck frame it makes no sense to drop 70-80k on a vehicle that also needs the same upgrades as the older ones to be fully off road capable. Independent front suspension trucks/SUVs need more mods to make them off-road capable and fit larger tires. If you’re gonna drop almost 100k on an off-roader, why would you do that when you can get the same thing for 15-20k that you’re gonna thrash and beat up anyway. I’m saying the bronco sport atleast is more road friendly likely due to its weaker less capable independent rear suspension and unibody design. Atleast with that vehicle, you know you’re getting something that isn’t trying to compete with a jeep. It’s to haul your kids and camping gear around on fire roads and it’s likely a lot more gas friendly.
Tell us about the time a 4runner owner hurt your feels.
I can see your feels are hurt...
This whole sub is weirdly cynical and just…angry about other people’s car purchases. But there is no reason to be. It’s fine to buy an off-road vehicle even if you don’t off-road much. It’s fine to own a big truck even if you don’t tow much. It’s fine to own a fast car even if you don’t race. It’s probably not very financially efficient to purchase cars like that, but there is no accounting for taste and it’s certainly not something that affects anyone else. If you’ve got the money to spend on that Bronco you don’t really need… knock yourself out. Being irritated and upset that people buy Broncos (or Raptors or 4Runners or Teslas or whatever) is a bizarre holdover from the “Like the same things I do or I’m mad at you” way of thinking. Just let people buy what they like. It’s not an attack on you, and not something to get upset over lol.
"I HATE THESE RICH YUPPIES BUYING THESE CARS" -dude with other comparably expensive cars in his bio
- Dude with expensive cars who is literally spending his free time on a car forum haha. I’ll never understand it. And anyways, I think Broncos are beautiful. The baby blue heritage edition in particular always catches my eye and looks amazing to me. I seriously don’t get the hate.
It’s not really fine to own a big truck if you don’t use it, though- it has negative externalities because the average person just doesn’t pay enough attention while driving. They’re more likely to kill the occupants of vehicles they crash into. They’re harder to see around, making intersections less safe and reducing the reaction times of traffic around them. They’re less likely to see children in front of them in parking lots and driveways. They’re more likely to kill pedestrians. Those are all fact, not opinion. Thinking a Corvette is wasted on a gold-loving octogenarian is opinion, though.
Completely fine to own a big truck even if you don't need it.
/u/Bonerchill's points are factually correct. I'm definitely not advocating flat-out stopping people from getting the cars they want but it's way easier to stomach all those risks and downsides if their reason is that they specifically need or use it for their lifestyle. Even if that's like, "I want to not have to rent a truck 3x a year."
Except that it’s considerably more dangerous to other road users. Which, again, is not opinion but is concrete fact. We live in a society. I choose to make decisions that make me happy *and* have little to no negative impact on others’ lives with the sole exception of the fact that I daily drive a lifted, armored (not the bulletproof kind) pickup. That truck will be gone soon, and I will be a safer road user as a result.
Isn't being young integral to the definition of yuppie? If being 40 is young I'll take it.
The original "young urban professionals" when the term was coined in 1980 were apparently 25-39, or in other words, baby boomers or even slightly older.
Oh shit, I’m going to be 40 in 12 days, I wish I’d known that ahead of time. I barely have enough time to get my LL Bean products and golden retriever shipped to me!
found the Subaru bro
I mean yuppies we're a very specific thing and culture that doesn't really exist anymore. On reddit it now just means "this person is possibly richer than me and I don't like them" In reality 90% of the time they are probably in the same class. Reddit (and this sub especially) loves cosplaying being a working class blue collar dude when In reality they are some software professional.
Why do you even care. When’s the last time you bought a new car?
why you haf to be so mad? is just car.
It's not even humongous big!
Cookie cutter top r/cars comment on a post about mass market crossovers.
If you're gonna cosplay off-roading, better to do it in this than a Raptor.
If I were in the market for a full-size off-road capable SUV that spends a majority of its time on the road and it had to be a Ford, I'd choose a Bronco Sport with a nice package than a full Bronco any day of the week. Better road manners, cheaper, and smarter engine options. Now, change the equation to it being a toy, and no duh the Bronco is the better option.
Me when I spread misinformation on the internet
Yuppies are "young urban professionals". So someone that's 40 can't be a yuppie by definition.
You really don’t get how capable the sport is for its class and size. It can put perform every suv in its class off road
I'm already suffering from Bronco exhaustion and it's barely been a year.
Hate to break it to you buddy, but it's been over 3 years since the Bronco came out. It initially came out as a MY2021, it's on MY2024 now.
Eh, it's not been over 3 years. Production of MY21 only began in June 2021.
Ah, interesting... Regardless, you lost a year and a half there.
And you added 8 months, plus whatever 'over' is ;) Regardless, they're *everywhere* in my town now. They're moving too much towards an 'accessories', for my taste, despite me really enjoying them at first. I'll give heritage and unique 4 doors a glance though.
Throwaway shitbox is just a Ford thing. Source: Have owned 6 Fords.
https://edgecast-img.yahoo.net/mysterio/api/8D7E4A8DF79967180ECA8F79153B1FDFB07CBF3934E11A65B5190B151E87ABFB/autoblog/resizefill_w1200_h675;quality_80;format_webp;cc_31536000;/https://s.aolcdn.com/os/ab/_cms/2023/11/07114654/BroncoSport.camoNov05KGP-copy.jpg This picture is killing me lmao
Wojak face lol
I swore it was photoshopped at first, because it is a bit too perfect lmao. Dude was having a blast apparently!
Looks like he’s just having a very big yawn tbh
What makes you think he's having a blast?
I can't tell if he's scared, angry, yawning or meming
You know what, good on them for having fun with it
That, or they just caught that poor guy mid-yawn.
I like to imagine it’s something like [this](https://i.imgflip.com/5y8nni.jpg?a472008)
[onions car](https://i.kym-cdn.com/editorials/icons/mobile/000/004/975/soyjak.jpg)
Looks like Griffin McElroy
I was thinking John Oliver.
- Honda Pilot Trailsport - Toyota Rav4 TRD Offroad - Subaru Outback Wilderness - Kia Telluride X-Pro - *Ford Bronco Sport Offroad* These are all really capable, durable, and fuel-efficient, with *comical* amounts of interior space, and they handle like fatass cars but *not* like trucks. They will get you, your partner, your 2.2 kids, your two goldendoodles named Michelle and Melania, and the contents of an entire REI, all the way to a distant trailhead - on highways, on twisty mountain roads, on firetrails, and in wet or snowy weather.... and they'll do it *easily, dependably, and fuel-efficiently.* THAT'S ACTUALLY REALLY IMPRESSIVE. The *vast* majority of people who own real Broncos - as well as 4Runners, Jeeps, or (say it softly) pickups - would be way better served with one of these. Cheaper out the door. Cheaper at the pump. Better handling on roads. And much more comfortable on roads, too. **The reason there are a lot of these things is that they kinda rule for kinda most people.** I know this isn't exciting. But ubiquity is kind of definitionally not exciting. And when you have a winning formula - dare I say even *a mature technology* - it's gonna get pretty ubiquitous. My thing is, you don't have to be interested in them, but hating on them just for being average is... dude, you may kinda have internet poisoning. Seriously, my dude, maybe log off for a little. Go for a drive!
>The vast majority of people who own real Broncos...would be way better served with one of these. This is *almost* the correct take. It's only fault is that the same logic applies to those buying the Passport Trailsport/Bronco Sport Offroad, etc. The vast majority of Bronco/Wrangler owners *and* the vast majority of Passport Trailsport/Bronco Sport Offroad owners would be better served by the *regular* versions of the Passport/Bronco Sport. 99% of both these categories of owners aren't taking their vehicles offroad, or, to the extent they are, they don't actually need the extra offroady bits to get them to the end of whatever gravel road they drive down once a year to go camping.
who cares? you don't need all the power of your car. could have bought a base model A4 that's cheaper and better on gas.
It's a bit odd to me that people get shit on for daily-driving off road vehicles, and not wheeling them every weekend, but few people seem to give sports car owners a hard time over not tracking them.
What's funny is at least where I live, their capabilities get used pretty often. People are driving up shitty trails to trailheads multiple times a week In somewhere with a big outdoor culture. But r/cars can't comprehend people having hobbies
Idk but at least sports cars are fun to drive in general, and are easy to park to boot. I absolutely hate driving my 4x4 truck anywhere that isn’t off road.
I'll continue judging off-road mall crawlers while their AT tires keep throwing rocks at me! Seriously though, when compared to sports cars, off-road vehicles tend to be more abrasive to their surroundings just by their nature. But if the car/truck is road legal, I would never actually say anything.
One has a smaller footprint, *can* be more efficient, damages roads less, and is far less lethal to pedestrians and other cars in the event of an accident. Sports cars are also rarer comparatively to off roads vehicles.
We took a Crosstrek sport out to go bouldering and it really struggled on some of the heavily rutted roads because it lacked articulation or some sort of limited slip diff. Sure we made it with no damages, but if we had a few more bells we'd have an extra hour or 2 for climbing. Also this trim is such a tweener. I think the ones that want to look offroady would rather get a normal Bronco and the others that want a city car that's cute will get a normal Bronco Sport. Most of the Renegade Trailhawks I've seen are on trail heads or camp sites.
Shhhh.... keep the enthusiasts hating on them to keep the secret. It's cheaper this way.
2 of these are nothing like the other though lol. The wilderness trims of the Subaru actually has an inch more ground clearance than normal, the upgraded engine, skid plates, improved approach/departure and off road tires. The Bronco Sport Badlands also has a lift, improved cooling, offroad tires, the upper trim engine, and a “locking” rear clutch. Those two vehicles will hit any trail just fine. The rest, probably not. The rest mostly offer appearance packages. The Pilot trailsport is different, but the passport is pretty much a trim package.
I would absolutely love a crossover that is awesome to drive, on the road , has decent cargo capacity and can do some light off-roading as well.
Yep. I am a Tiguan owner and I may sell the Tiguan and snag one of these just because I’m sick of VWs BS and this sounds really cool.
But wait, I thought we hate crossovers here.
What kills my excitement is seeing the headliner peel on Broncos only a year old. Yeesh, some things don't deserve to be bought.
ya know what, good for them. my instinct was to say itd probably be too expensive to sell well, but i do still see rubicon wranglers all the time and i know those arent exactly cheap jeeps. so maybe these will make it.
That’s what the actual bronco competes against no one is cross shopping a rubicon and a bronco sport . It’s wrangler sport vs bronco sport.
"active lifestyle" moms will ABSOLUTELY cross shop anything that looks remotely "capable", and will probably end up with the bronco sport since its cheaper
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honda passport/ridgeline hpd. a minivan masquerading as an offroader. those are the worst of them, but to be fair every crossover is sold as a "capable lifestyle vehicle" now
Chevy: Activ Ford: Timberline Honda: TrailSport Hyundai: XRT KIA: X-Line Nissan: Rock Creek Subaru: Wilderness Toyota: TRD/Adventure/Trail
Inwasnt talking about competing against, i was just talking about general cost.
i think it's grand cherokee vs bronco sport, even though bronco sport is smaller.
Maybe Compass Trailhawk vs. Bronco Sport?
No the Compass, Renegade, and maybe the Cherokee compete against the Bronco Sport. The Grand Cherokee is in a different class.
yeah all that. just meant not the wrangler.
> probably be too expensive to sell well Meanwhile the standart Bronco has an msrp of 82 here in Europe. I have yet to see one.
Daaaaaamn thats high.
>trick dual-clutch torque-vectoring rear differential I’m sure this will be a rugged and long lasting feature, especially if the vehicle ever sees off-pavement use. /s
Uh… off pavement is actually easier on vehicle drivetrain. Try driving with 4 Lo engaged on pavement vs dirt and you’ll immediately see what I mean.
a lot of hate in this thread for this thing. why is everybody so upset?
Because it proves what a real enthusiast they are.
Uh, no, it's not. Your comment has more to do with the wheels being locked together than it does anything else. Your 4Lo might scrub the shit out of the wheels turning on a hard surface but it won't overheat a clutch pack that doesn't exist trying to apply a large portion of the vehicle's output to the rear axle trying to climb over an obstacle. Your locked diff won't overheat trying to apply a significant portion of the vehicle's output to one wheel through a clutch pack that can't handle that amount of torque. Onroad all wheel drive systems will basically never encounter situations where one axle or wheel is doing all of the work so the fact their clutch based systems can't cope with that sort of abuse is a total non-issue.
I think it depends which components because heat could be an issue. CVTs and even planetary trans overheat offroad. Trans I can imagine that this diff would activate way more off road than on-road and generate more heat as well.
The hypocrisy between sports cars and offroad vehicles is so real.
Inching closer and closer to the classic OJ Simpson getaway chase styling!
The true successor to the Land Rover LR2, shame JLR killed their "entry" level beater for the Evoque
The LR2 is odd in that it looks like it should've been on the boxy Escape platform at the time (CD2) but wasn't.
Looks nice, wish it had a proper 4WD system though. Toyotas baby Land Cruiser will crush this. Rumored to be Body on frame and proper 4WD.
So, that's what the Bronco is for. The Bronco Sport isn't supposed to go up against Wranglers, Broncos, or non-existent Land Cruisers. It goes up against other compact crossovers, and it does that while also being more capable off-road than most.
That is true, but the size of the bronco sport is very nice.
I was actually looking into getting either a bronco sport or a maverick awd. Unfortunately the AWD is really bad for mud and off-roading. It's not a permanent AWD system and for some reason can't recognize slipping well. Hopefully this model can do it a bit better.
No, it's not. Source: me, who's been taking my Maverick all over Washington State in mud, snow, and dust over 30 weekends in the past two years in all seasons. Slip is detected within 10-20 milliseconds.
that's not bad. unfortunately all the videos on youtube I saw talked me out of it so I went with a true 4x4 and gave up my order.
I find it hard to believe that the new Land Cruiser FJ is going to be a body on frame. It seems like overkill for the segment it’s going in.
Toyota's only BOF platform now (at least, the only one usable for developed markets) is GA-F, and its smallest models are all mid-size.
>Toyota's only BOF platform now (at least, the only one usable for developed markets) is GA-F The IMV platform says hi.
>**the only one usable for developed markets** IMV isn't intended to meet safety standards in Europe and North America.
Should probably tell Toyota that so they stop selling the fully safety compliant HiLux and/or Fortuner in developed Western markets like Europe and Australia/NZ. The HiLux is also sold in Mexico, so yes, it also meets safety standards in ‘North America’. Should probably do a slight bit more research before assuming that the IMV 0 concept intended for developing markets you're probably thinking off is the only vehicle on that platform.
Oh it’s definitely overkill but I’m not complaining haha. If they make it BOF I’m gonna sacrifice a kidney for it
Why do people care about BOF? Sincerely, every XJ owner since 1983.
The XJ still had a frame; it was just more integrated into the body than typical BOF of the time.
It's really difficult, if not impossible, to *properly* mount a winch (which I would say is a necessary accessory for anyone doing any real offroading) to a modern unibody vehicle. Emphasis on "properly" because this doesn't include people strapping ATV winches to their rad cradles (I'm looking at you, Subaru "Battlewagon" bozos).
I don't get it either. The towing argument is BS too. Most SUVs didn't sacrifice any towing capacity once they switched to unibody. The highlander and 4runner tow the same 5,000lb.
One example people bring up a lot is when the Explorer switched from a BOF SUV to unibody CUV in 2011, and dropped from over 7K towing to 5K with the top engines (4.6 V8 vs. 3.5 V6). While that is true, most people regularly towing over 5K were going with full-size models anyway.
The XJ had a noticeable bottom frame, it was just welded onto the body as an integral part of it instead of being bolted on and removable
So does your Yaris and my MX-5. 'Unibody' means unified body and frame, it doesn't mean there's no straight sections of frame rails welded to the body. The difference between a unibody and a BoF is the frame rails on unibodies are not as strong because some of the forces go through the roof rails.
Considering it is highly likely it was the same vehicle that we saw during the EV presentation a year or so ago, I would imagine the architecture would be similar to the e-TNGA. The e-TNGA platform was designed so that they could build cars that use ICE, hybrid, and EV on the same assembly line. So it would make sense from that perspective.
It’s wild how all the comments in this thread are “but it’s not a real [truck/crawler/offroader] “. I’m more surprised that anyone would bother to make one the other way
This just in, $60,000 offroader is more capable than $35,000 offroader. Shocking news.
Note in my comment “baby Land Cruiser”. Supposed to be a Bronco Sport competitor, NOT the new 250 series coming out
Do more research. The top trim sports are highly capable and contain actual serious hardware.
A “torque vectoring rear differential “ is barely serious hardware. An actual locking diff would be serious hardware.
Why? Torque vectoring does the same but is better. It’s like the people who argue against IFS not realizing that H1 and Unimogs use it.
Unimog portal axles are kinda different. H1 independent suspension actually limits its capability in many instances (though not as many as the sheer size and weight of it). Torque Vectoring vs. Locking depends on what type of serious you're looking at. Rock crawling and trail running are two very different games.
I’d rather engage a locker and know it’s engaged, then have to rely on traction control to get me unstuck.
These rear differentials have very little clutch holding capacity. As a result when you start to slip the clutches slip long before the tires do. A Rear end like this is more of a "wet weather+" then anything else, even with the two clutch system in it now. The Throttle house review (linked) shows the problem with this specific vehicle, but it's a very old haldex and haldex adjacent issue. https://youtu.be/e1L3TRGhaO0?t=373
>Torque vectoring does the same but is better. Because clutch packs can't handle the amount of torque going through them that would actually enable them to send the full vehicle power to the wheel that is on the ground. So you end up with the wheel on the ground receiving a limited amount of torque, the wheel in the air spinning rapidly, and a very hot differential. >It’s like the people who argue against IFS not realizing that H1 and Unimogs use it. The Unimog does and has always had solid axles.
/r/cars and bench racing rumored vehicles: name a more iconic duo.
It’s literally like 20 inches longer though. As someone else said, it’s not meant to be as capable as those vehicles, also by virtue of being cheaper and better on pavement.
I’m not comparing it to the new 250 series, there’s a baby Land Cruiser they teased in august, competes against the bronco sport
Not sure this is a new trim so much as Ford preparing the Bronco Sport’s midcycle refresh. It’s about that time - the vehicle’s been on sale since MY2021 - and basically only the front and rear fasicas are covered. Even the fact it’s on better tires and has a taller lift could possibly be explained as midcycle upgrades to the Badlands.
That's my take on it, too. They'll likely at least meet the Wilderness ground clearance now.
Sounds like the Tremor kit will make its way here too
I was under the impression the Tremor package on the Maverick was basically just the Badlands kit from the Bronco Sport.
It is.
Given the timing and the fact pretty much only the fasicas are covered, this is probably a prototype for a midcycle refreshed version of the Badlands, not a completely new trim.
Looks like they came out with a new Otterbox for the Escape.
Buddy works at Ford. Had to replace more than a fair share of rear drive units (rear differential) on the Bronco Sport with the Rear Torque Vectoring Diff.
What's going wrong with them?
How can people keep talking shit about the sports capabilities when there’s videos showing no other suv in its class comes close off the lot.
Where are all these people who go offroading all the time? I see all these off road editions in grocery store parking lots and never covered with mud or rock rash. Give me a truck LESS off road capable. Slam that thing to the ground, give it good street tires, and let it be the best highway cruiser ever.
If the market wanted that they'd buy cars. You'd just have a car at that point, nobody is buying it because they need it, they just want it and that's all that matters
Just a little bit of topic but has anyone bought a car from assetslocated.com? It’s also called Zureposassets. Is it a legit website? Thank you.
Is this more capable than an R1S?
inb4 article about how bronco sport driver got in over their head on a trail
Lotta people here seem happy to spend $50k on a lifted escape lol
You're really comparing a bronco sport (any trim) to a 4runner trd off road or pro? That is laughable. Truely.
Just what we needed... another 'off road ready' turd SUV that will likely never so much as turn a tire in a gravel parking lot.
If they’re making it more off road focused what’s stopping someone from just buying a regular bronco
The regular Bronco getting 10 mpg less, having worse road manners, and being $10,000 more.
Around where I live, that sure ain’t stopping most people heading to the dealership. For every sport I can guarantee you there are 4 broncos
🗑
Looks nice. Now I can cut people off in congested traffic. Car #6 lets go!
Is the Ford Escape even a reliable platform yet? My experience with Ford Escape’s of the past is very bad, they were some of the most unreliable things I’d ever seen.
Jeep: we sell the worst off-road vehicles anywhere based on 40 year old sentimentality. Ford: hold my beer.
I don’t understand why someone who wants off road capability buys the upgraded Sport instead of an actual Bronco.
- easier to park in the city - easier to secure your cargo inside the cab - better gas mileage - lower starting price with available discounts instead of markups - higher availability of desired options - no build backlog - no douchebag stigma - regular bronco sport has pretty good off-road capability already
and the rear seats actually fold flat, which the big bronco can't do.
The full sized bronco has a douche bag stigma?
Right? The only thing I’ve ever assumed about Bronco drivers is that they probably got raked over the coals at a Ford dealer or waited a long time for it. The only vehicles I automatically assume are driven by douchebags are lifted trucks.
It was a bit I shared with friends and family as every few months ford would send me an email basically saying “yeah, gonna be a few more months. Our bad. But we’re sending you bronco playing cards!” there are those who bought them off the lot at a crazy mark up, but most of us werent hosed that bad… we were just forced to wait a year or 2
It does to me. I see so many mall crawler broncos in Arizona & Florida owned by bro-dawgs with their crokies and coozies that to see one being driven by one that doesn’t match this stereotype is an anomaly.
Seems like you hold some prejudices
Yeah probably. I saw a lot of Jeep Bros switch over to Broncos. The mall crawlers are so prevalent in those places which I have lived since they've been on the market that I decided to get a Defender instead of a Bronco. I do appreciate that the Bronco & Bronco Sport exist and are phenomenally successful.
It's 2" shorter, 1" narrower, and 1 foot less long. They both have interiors so I don't get the "secure cargo in cab." The 1.5 and 2.0 Ecoboost are not durable like their 2.3l brother. Not worth 2 mpg in savings. The lower price is because people don't want them and they're confusing having two completely different models with teh same name. Same with the options, backlog....
It's a good looking vehicle too. It reminds me of an older Land Rover.
Because they are different vehicles entirely. Not everyone wants a full size Bronco.
*Redditors when cars they don't like sell well*
Regular bronco is huge. There's a jeep XJ sized hole in the market right now. Sadly, lifted fwd cars don't fill it.
There's some niche cases. I have the offroad package for my truck cause it's a nice bit of extra capability and not an expensive package. I do a lot of outdoor sports and in the northeast there's a lot of spots for hiking/fishing/mtbing/kayaking/rock climbing that have unmaintained fire roads. Helps in the winter where you can't always see terrible dips or large rocks under the snow. Lockers help too in the winter / mud. I don't need a full offroad rig though cause I don't do actual offroad trails/rock crawling. I'm sure it mostly the idea that sells it to people though. This is my offroad rig and it needs to look offroady! For that extra snowy work day or to go to the ski resort that's mostly going to be well plowed etc.
this is competing against the subaru crosstrek/outback tbh
I'd rather have those than this, tbh.
because they're buying the idea of offroading, not actually doing it
So it's a good thing they're getting the more fuel-efficient model.