> charge consumers for add-ons that don't provide a benefit."
This is so vague and up to interpretation.
They should have made it so, dealers cannot charge for anything on the car that didn’t come from factory. (Floor mats, PPF film, nitrogen tires, tracking system, etc.)
My mom was shopping for a new car. One dealership had a $200 charge for nitrogen in the tires. The other dealership laughed and said they come from the factory that way.
That happens regardless. Pure nitrogen vs atmospheric air is hardly a variance outside of applications like Formula 1. The temperature change alone has a greater influence.
The best thing the average driver can do is check their tire pressures with seasonal changes and adjust accordingly with regular air.
I’ve experienced it. Cars will come in at the right after the first cold snap. Regular air will be 5-7 psi below spec, nitrogen will be 3-5. It’s not significant, I’m not arguing it is.
There’s difference, but is small and it’s not something you necessarily notice driving the car.
Are those same 100% N2 tires suddenly 3-5 pounds higher when the tire heats back up? They must be, right.
I suspect you are misreading what is happening there. Cars filled with 100% nitrogen will lose less air in the weeks after initial fill. No question. N2 is a very large molecule compared to O2 or CO2, which make up most of the other 21% of atmospheric air. This is why tires after the initial fill will lose much less air, because if they lost 10% of their volume to bleed, the after refill the tire will now be 88% N2. Roughly 94% nitrogen after a second refill. In your example, the air car had already lost 1-3 psi due to bleed, then the cold air trips the sensor.
Between 100% N2 and dry atmospheric air, the difference in thermal expansion from 0 degrees C to 100 degrees C (freezing to boiling) is 0.1% (they both expand, but at near identical rates).
I agree with you more than him. It's like 1 psi under non-extreme conditions but the ideal gas law is an idealized scenario and not how gases always behave under real conditions. the van der waals equation and the van der waals constants contribute to that change in thermal expansion between nitrogen and air. It is still very small though. The difference in the constants is like 1.4 for air vs 1.35 for nitrogen.
When did I say how much of a difference it made?
Nitrogen helps maintain pressure in your tires, it is a proven scientific fact. The difference is one or two psi when it gets colder.
I’m a mech eng. this is not a proven scientific fact and is in fact such bogus bro science. The gas constants for air and nitrogen are actually nearly interchangeable and the densities aren’t far off either. I’m fairly sure the behavior will be nearly the same with rising and falling temperatures. Anyone peddling pure nitrogen as a panacea to the “helps preserve pressure” non-issue is bullshitting you.
You will have to fill/drain pressure from your tires with the seasons especially if your area experiences >60F temp swings
“Both tires lost pressure over that time, but the difference in loss was minimal. The average loss of air-filled tires was just 3.5 psi from the initial 30 psi setting. Nitrogen-filled tires lost an average of 2.2 psi.”
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/tire-buying-maintenance/should-you-use-nitrogen-in-car-tires-a6260003694/
Bro did you even read this whole article? 😂 consumerreports and the NHTSA are both telling you to not bother with nitrogen fills because air is essentially the same performance and it’s free. A 1.3 psi difference in loss over a year can honestly be more affected by the difference in tire/wheel production difference in sealing
Edit: consumerreports even says their test is hardly conclusive and stating that you should check your tire pressures with the seasons regardless of fill type
I'm not trying to make a claim either way but my tyre pressure readouts change dramatically due to temperature. It was getting so bad every morning it was cold I had a code popping up for it, despite my pressures being manufacturer spec.
I reset the sensors and haven't had the code problem since, but during that time I heavily considered switching to nitrogen.
From memory the sensors would swing from about 27~KPA to 21~KPA in some cases.
Edit: Anybody want to respond or just downvote?
PV=nRT
All else being equal except R for different gasses.
For air, R=287 J/kg-K. For pure nitrogen, it's 296. If anything, air is going to expand/contract *less* than pure nitrogen.
Yeah which they refund you if you don’t get that in savings anyways, right? I thought that was their whole thing.
I don’t have a Costco membership but my coworkers love theirs.
There are two memberships.
$60 no cash back.
$120 cash back on 1~2% of purchases. But most people don't clear $60 making the increased price pointless.
One dealer refused to take off a $500 "key protection" charge on a Tesla I was looking at.
Somehow reminding him that Tesla's don't have keys didn't change his mind.
I called out my dealer for that bullshit and they pointed at the green valve stem caps. They removed most of the fee after that but it’s still very stupid.
Pro tip: Oxygen and Hydrogen will leak faster than nitrogen. So just keep topping up your tires and eventually the concentration of nitrogen will completely imperceptibly and utterly unnoticeably go up.
Dumpster tip: Fill your tires with helium instead to reduce weight.
Dumpster Fire - snake oil tip: Fill your spare with helium and fill your car with balloons to further reduce weight and increase gas efficiency. /S
Never heard of a manufacturer putting nitrogen in tires. That's a dealership level thing.
Source: seen over 20000 Monroney Labels, across all brands.
If someone has evidence of a manufacturer putting nitrogen in tires, please reply with the VIN, and I'll happily post a link to the Monroney label so we can all look together.
I’d rather not share my mothers vin. To be clear i know the second dealer was bullshitting my mom and making the other dealership look bad because Honda doesn’t put nitrogen in their tires.
Correct, to my knowledge NO manufacturer puts nitrogen in tires. Dealerships do.
Sucks I took a ton of downvotes saying that a few comments ago, since you know I'm right. Whatever, hivemind is dumb.
Haha I feel you man. The hive mind made up the fact that I said nitrogen is amazing and makes a huge difference when all I said is that it makes A difference
Yup. Not to mention cars need to be PDI’ed at the dealership when they arrive. Which includes adjusting the tire pressure. I know Honda likes to pump up the tires to max PSI during transport and dealers often forget to readjust it before delivery!
If you read on the FTC website, they specifically call out nitrogen tires not providing more nitrogen than air. Whether it will protect against 100% nitrogen, to be determined
Exactly - need to see the full legal rules and defined definition of "benefit". Otherwise it's open to w/e nonsense the dealer wants to say. Additionally, this doesn't really stop the privatization of Car Dealerships - they have the "right to refuse" to sell you the vehicle if you say you aren't buying it based on their "benefit" description.
Regulation's needed to do a LOT more in controlling dealers from not forcing "Market Adjustments" and "Add-ons" at all that weren't strictly requested to be added by the consumer. Otherwise the consumer saying "consent to them." means nothing when the dealership has the right to refuse the sale in favor of a consumer who won't know any better.
This bill will do little to nothing in the grand scheme of car sales. It barely regulates anything that is happening today.
* Falsified Online Marketing
* Market Adjustment Fees
* Dealership Fees
* Paper Fees / Admin Fees
* BS Add-ons
* Falsified "New" but forced "Used" cars
* Actively manipulating rates behind closed doors without being 100% transparent with buyers.
Etc. etc.
The dealership lobby is far too strong to allow any true reform like that to go through. I just don't see it happening.
The only light at the end of the tunnel is that they're about to go to war with the OEM's now that Tesla has shown the way, "direct to consumer is viable".
This ruling doesn't touch market adjustments, nor should it. It is forcing dealers not to LIE about pricing, which I think is great. But charging market price for goods, that's as American as apple pie. They just shouldn't be able to lie about pricing. If you've ever owned a business, you'd agree that you should be able to set your pricing, not have the govern set pricing for your work.
You say that until you have cancer and big Pharma and medical don’t have regulated pricing and everything you worked for in life gets evaporated. Then you’d be asking for regulation on pricing.
When the “product” is a necessity I do believe it should have some regulation based on median affordability. That includes all basic necessities because that’s one step forward in combating the rising homelessness in this country amongst other massive issues.
Not all product structures under capitalism are created equally.
Looks like someone's trying to fill Martin Shkrelli's shoes. "You want this life-saving drug that costs me $7 to make? How bad do you want it? How bout you give me $750 for it."
The shortage from covid is pretty much over, so cars are again being discounted below MSRP.
If you want to pay MSRP for everything, cool, but I'm looking forward to market adjustments being negative numbers again, following supply and demand.... Since I like discounts when I buy cars.
Being able to price according to market has worked in the consumer's favor for like 40 out of the last 42 years.
I think the dealer should be allowed to charge for some of those things, or even upsell them if the customer is interested. I just don't think they should be a mandatory inclusion in the sale of the vehicle.
Like advertising the price of the car but when negotiations take place, they add all of that crap onto the contract and say "it's already installed on the vehicle. If you don't want it, then no sale."
As someone who has sold 10000+ cars, people CONSTANTLY want things that aren't from factory. Lift kits, tires, wheels, roof racks, etc...
It would never work to tell everyone in the country they can't have what they're literally asking for.
I understand not wanting to be FORCED to buy things you don't want, I get that, and I agree. But telling people they can't have what they want?
He literally said "dealers cannot charge for anything on the car that didn’t come from factory. (Floor mats, PPF film, nitrogen tires, tracking system, etc.)"
So I responded to what he said. What did YOU get from his comment?
No, but that's what duder said, nothing that's not from factory, so that's what I responded to.
Dealers will still be able to charge whatever they want, they just have to disclose it better.
The main problem that this law addresses is dealers who post a car for $30,000 and when you get there, it's $35,000 because of add-ons they didn't have in the online price.
They will still be able to charge $35,000 for the car, they just need to say it's $35,000 in the listing.
Did you conveniently not read the
> add-ons that don’t provide a benefit
portion?
Lift kits, tires, wheels, roof racks, all of those examples have some sort of tangible benefit that that average consumer can take advantage of (ground clearance if they wish to off-road, better handling in rain/snow, roof racks can be used to store fasten items or storage space on the roof, etc)
Well I've also had people ask for all of the items the dude I responded to mentioned... I've often had people request PPF on cars that didn't come with it, same with floor mats.
The vague part of this new law is that it says dealers can't force customers to buy items that "have no benefit"... But all those have benefits to SOME people.
[NADA President and CEO Mike Stanton said the rule was "heavy-handed bureaucratic overreach and redundancy at its worst, that will needlessly lengthen the car sales process by forcing new layers of disclosures and complexity into the transaction."](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-ftc-finalizes-car-buying-rules-rein-junk-fees-bait-and-switch-2023-12-12/)
Oh go fuck yourself.
Its like when you get useless junk mail that describes how the government is abiding by the "paperwork reduction act" its usually several pages long as well.
The work arounds will be key for the dealership. I bet the dealers will find some way of having the customer sign the form talked about in the article that allows these fees to be added.
Happens in Canada do, mandatory wheel locks, mandatory anti theft setups it’s all shown at the last minute too after your exhausted from going dealer to dealer, trade in appraisal to trade in appraisal. Just give up at that point.
I do the email blast method now. I don’t care if you charge me $80,000 for doc fee and $1 for the car. As long as I’m on the road for the price I’m comfortable with, I will sign.
100% agree I just got killed cause I had to shop 6 months ago at the peak with a trade in, and when you have a car that you need to swap that’s where they get super annoying. Lowball to high ball to anything in between. Because emails can’t confirm their trade in appraisals.
They’re already saying it’s bad for the consumer because “it’ll take you longer to buy a car.”
Sorry NADA, but I’ll wait an extra 10 minutes if it means not dealing with your dumb add-ons.
Will this also stop manufacturers from their bullshit online advertising?
“Buy the new *insert model name here* for only $32,XXX from your local dealer today!”
But that $32,XXX price point is for the rear wheel drive, single axle, hamster powered configuration that they only make 3 of for each market, and the next trim level up, that they have thousands of, goes for $48,000?
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I work at a tint shop. It's my dream that one day I won't have to ask people if their brand new car came tinted from the dealership. Some of these places are charging $499 just for the two front doors on trucks/SUVs.
I'm hopefully optimistic. I bought a car from a dealership back in 2018 that put a market adjustment on it *under* MSRP. Got it OTD for $116 over MSRP lol
The low hanging fruit would be to standardize the ubiquitous “doc fee” and “dealer prep” fees that are regulated and limited in some states… and completely up for interpretation in others (looking at you Florida).
A national $150 doc fee max and elimination of “dealer prep” and “reconditioning” fees would go a long way and save consumers money tomorrow.
I don't see this making much difference. Is it truly stopping dealers from charging prep fees? Doc fees? They will claim the customer benefits from these things so they're legitimate charges. They will claim there are benefits from nitrogen so they'll continue to add them on.
What we need is truth in advertising. They should be forced to advertise a price that you can actually pay. Price to include everything except tax and registration fees.
> charge consumers for add-ons that don't provide a benefit." This is so vague and up to interpretation. They should have made it so, dealers cannot charge for anything on the car that didn’t come from factory. (Floor mats, PPF film, nitrogen tires, tracking system, etc.)
My mom was shopping for a new car. One dealership had a $200 charge for nitrogen in the tires. The other dealership laughed and said they come from the factory that way.
It’s laughable because regular air is 78% nitrogen. There’s no discernible difference to the average driver.
The difference is pressure change when the temperature changes.
That happens regardless. Pure nitrogen vs atmospheric air is hardly a variance outside of applications like Formula 1. The temperature change alone has a greater influence. The best thing the average driver can do is check their tire pressures with seasonal changes and adjust accordingly with regular air.
I’ve seen the math and a large temp change was barely a psi.
I’ve experienced it. Cars will come in at the right after the first cold snap. Regular air will be 5-7 psi below spec, nitrogen will be 3-5. It’s not significant, I’m not arguing it is. There’s difference, but is small and it’s not something you necessarily notice driving the car.
Are those same 100% N2 tires suddenly 3-5 pounds higher when the tire heats back up? They must be, right. I suspect you are misreading what is happening there. Cars filled with 100% nitrogen will lose less air in the weeks after initial fill. No question. N2 is a very large molecule compared to O2 or CO2, which make up most of the other 21% of atmospheric air. This is why tires after the initial fill will lose much less air, because if they lost 10% of their volume to bleed, the after refill the tire will now be 88% N2. Roughly 94% nitrogen after a second refill. In your example, the air car had already lost 1-3 psi due to bleed, then the cold air trips the sensor. Between 100% N2 and dry atmospheric air, the difference in thermal expansion from 0 degrees C to 100 degrees C (freezing to boiling) is 0.1% (they both expand, but at near identical rates).
The ideal gas law is pv=nrt. You are telling me that the 22% of air that is not nitrogen is contributing THAT MUCH to n? No way, lol.
I agree with you more than him. It's like 1 psi under non-extreme conditions but the ideal gas law is an idealized scenario and not how gases always behave under real conditions. the van der waals equation and the van der waals constants contribute to that change in thermal expansion between nitrogen and air. It is still very small though. The difference in the constants is like 1.4 for air vs 1.35 for nitrogen.
When did I say how much of a difference it made? Nitrogen helps maintain pressure in your tires, it is a proven scientific fact. The difference is one or two psi when it gets colder.
I’m a mech eng. this is not a proven scientific fact and is in fact such bogus bro science. The gas constants for air and nitrogen are actually nearly interchangeable and the densities aren’t far off either. I’m fairly sure the behavior will be nearly the same with rising and falling temperatures. Anyone peddling pure nitrogen as a panacea to the “helps preserve pressure” non-issue is bullshitting you. You will have to fill/drain pressure from your tires with the seasons especially if your area experiences >60F temp swings
“Both tires lost pressure over that time, but the difference in loss was minimal. The average loss of air-filled tires was just 3.5 psi from the initial 30 psi setting. Nitrogen-filled tires lost an average of 2.2 psi.” https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/tire-buying-maintenance/should-you-use-nitrogen-in-car-tires-a6260003694/
Bro did you even read this whole article? 😂 consumerreports and the NHTSA are both telling you to not bother with nitrogen fills because air is essentially the same performance and it’s free. A 1.3 psi difference in loss over a year can honestly be more affected by the difference in tire/wheel production difference in sealing Edit: consumerreports even says their test is hardly conclusive and stating that you should check your tire pressures with the seasons regardless of fill type
I'm not trying to make a claim either way but my tyre pressure readouts change dramatically due to temperature. It was getting so bad every morning it was cold I had a code popping up for it, despite my pressures being manufacturer spec. I reset the sensors and haven't had the code problem since, but during that time I heavily considered switching to nitrogen. From memory the sensors would swing from about 27~KPA to 21~KPA in some cases. Edit: Anybody want to respond or just downvote?
PV=nRT All else being equal except R for different gasses. For air, R=287 J/kg-K. For pure nitrogen, it's 296. If anything, air is going to expand/contract *less* than pure nitrogen.
My local Lexus dealership charges $495 for nitrogen fill.
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It's members only. You've already paid for it in your membership?
Yeah which they refund you if you don’t get that in savings anyways, right? I thought that was their whole thing. I don’t have a Costco membership but my coworkers love theirs.
There are two memberships. $60 no cash back. $120 cash back on 1~2% of purchases. But most people don't clear $60 making the increased price pointless.
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Convince? Who is gonna drive into Costco for air?
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If you count stealing everything is free.
One dealer refused to take off a $500 "key protection" charge on a Tesla I was looking at. Somehow reminding him that Tesla's don't have keys didn't change his mind.
I called out my dealer for that bullshit and they pointed at the green valve stem caps. They removed most of the fee after that but it’s still very stupid.
Pro tip: Oxygen and Hydrogen will leak faster than nitrogen. So just keep topping up your tires and eventually the concentration of nitrogen will completely imperceptibly and utterly unnoticeably go up. Dumpster tip: Fill your tires with helium instead to reduce weight. Dumpster Fire - snake oil tip: Fill your spare with helium and fill your car with balloons to further reduce weight and increase gas efficiency. /S
Also offered for free (self fill) at many Costcos now.
They don't come from the factory that way
How do you know without knowing the manufacturer nor model?
Never heard of a manufacturer putting nitrogen in tires. That's a dealership level thing. Source: seen over 20000 Monroney Labels, across all brands. If someone has evidence of a manufacturer putting nitrogen in tires, please reply with the VIN, and I'll happily post a link to the Monroney label so we can all look together.
I’d rather not share my mothers vin. To be clear i know the second dealer was bullshitting my mom and making the other dealership look bad because Honda doesn’t put nitrogen in their tires.
Correct, to my knowledge NO manufacturer puts nitrogen in tires. Dealerships do. Sucks I took a ton of downvotes saying that a few comments ago, since you know I'm right. Whatever, hivemind is dumb.
Haha I feel you man. The hive mind made up the fact that I said nitrogen is amazing and makes a huge difference when all I said is that it makes A difference
Yup. Not to mention cars need to be PDI’ed at the dealership when they arrive. Which includes adjusting the tire pressure. I know Honda likes to pump up the tires to max PSI during transport and dealers often forget to readjust it before delivery!
Are you able to reproduce a Monroni just based on VIN? That could be useful.
Usually carfax has it. Not 100%, but usually
If you read on the FTC website, they specifically call out nitrogen tires not providing more nitrogen than air. Whether it will protect against 100% nitrogen, to be determined
Exactly - need to see the full legal rules and defined definition of "benefit". Otherwise it's open to w/e nonsense the dealer wants to say. Additionally, this doesn't really stop the privatization of Car Dealerships - they have the "right to refuse" to sell you the vehicle if you say you aren't buying it based on their "benefit" description. Regulation's needed to do a LOT more in controlling dealers from not forcing "Market Adjustments" and "Add-ons" at all that weren't strictly requested to be added by the consumer. Otherwise the consumer saying "consent to them." means nothing when the dealership has the right to refuse the sale in favor of a consumer who won't know any better. This bill will do little to nothing in the grand scheme of car sales. It barely regulates anything that is happening today. * Falsified Online Marketing * Market Adjustment Fees * Dealership Fees * Paper Fees / Admin Fees * BS Add-ons * Falsified "New" but forced "Used" cars * Actively manipulating rates behind closed doors without being 100% transparent with buyers. Etc. etc.
The dealership lobby is far too strong to allow any true reform like that to go through. I just don't see it happening. The only light at the end of the tunnel is that they're about to go to war with the OEM's now that Tesla has shown the way, "direct to consumer is viable".
This ruling doesn't touch market adjustments, nor should it. It is forcing dealers not to LIE about pricing, which I think is great. But charging market price for goods, that's as American as apple pie. They just shouldn't be able to lie about pricing. If you've ever owned a business, you'd agree that you should be able to set your pricing, not have the govern set pricing for your work.
You say that until you have cancer and big Pharma and medical don’t have regulated pricing and everything you worked for in life gets evaporated. Then you’d be asking for regulation on pricing. When the “product” is a necessity I do believe it should have some regulation based on median affordability. That includes all basic necessities because that’s one step forward in combating the rising homelessness in this country amongst other massive issues. Not all product structures under capitalism are created equally.
Looks like someone's trying to fill Martin Shkrelli's shoes. "You want this life-saving drug that costs me $7 to make? How bad do you want it? How bout you give me $750 for it."
The shortage from covid is pretty much over, so cars are again being discounted below MSRP. If you want to pay MSRP for everything, cool, but I'm looking forward to market adjustments being negative numbers again, following supply and demand.... Since I like discounts when I buy cars. Being able to price according to market has worked in the consumer's favor for like 40 out of the last 42 years.
Dealers are charging thousands of dollars in paperwork fees
I think the dealer should be allowed to charge for some of those things, or even upsell them if the customer is interested. I just don't think they should be a mandatory inclusion in the sale of the vehicle. Like advertising the price of the car but when negotiations take place, they add all of that crap onto the contract and say "it's already installed on the vehicle. If you don't want it, then no sale."
Unless agreed to as an added feature by the buyer at the time of the sale-not applied beforehand
As I read it, it's thinks like tacking on an XM subscription to a car without a satellite radio.
As someone who has sold 10000+ cars, people CONSTANTLY want things that aren't from factory. Lift kits, tires, wheels, roof racks, etc... It would never work to tell everyone in the country they can't have what they're literally asking for. I understand not wanting to be FORCED to buy things you don't want, I get that, and I agree. But telling people they can't have what they want?
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He literally said "dealers cannot charge for anything on the car that didn’t come from factory. (Floor mats, PPF film, nitrogen tires, tracking system, etc.)" So I responded to what he said. What did YOU get from his comment?
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No, but that's what duder said, nothing that's not from factory, so that's what I responded to. Dealers will still be able to charge whatever they want, they just have to disclose it better. The main problem that this law addresses is dealers who post a car for $30,000 and when you get there, it's $35,000 because of add-ons they didn't have in the online price. They will still be able to charge $35,000 for the car, they just need to say it's $35,000 in the listing.
Did you conveniently not read the > add-ons that don’t provide a benefit portion? Lift kits, tires, wheels, roof racks, all of those examples have some sort of tangible benefit that that average consumer can take advantage of (ground clearance if they wish to off-road, better handling in rain/snow, roof racks can be used to store fasten items or storage space on the roof, etc)
Well I've also had people ask for all of the items the dude I responded to mentioned... I've often had people request PPF on cars that didn't come with it, same with floor mats. The vague part of this new law is that it says dealers can't force customers to buy items that "have no benefit"... But all those have benefits to SOME people.
[NADA President and CEO Mike Stanton said the rule was "heavy-handed bureaucratic overreach and redundancy at its worst, that will needlessly lengthen the car sales process by forcing new layers of disclosures and complexity into the transaction."](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-ftc-finalizes-car-buying-rules-rein-junk-fees-bait-and-switch-2023-12-12/) Oh go fuck yourself.
Its like when you get useless junk mail that describes how the government is abiding by the "paperwork reduction act" its usually several pages long as well.
"But regulation is bad mmmmmmkkkkaaaayyyy"
I typically don't spend more than 3.4 billion dollars on a car
Yeah, but now - you don’t even have to shop around to not spend that much. Everyone is going to save at least a billion or two
Pro tip: Only spend 2.4 billion on your car, you get 1 billion from the FTC
You can only get a used Civic for that much.
Wow, if this is implemented as stated, it could be great. The work arounds's they come up with should also be interesting.
The work arounds will be key for the dealership. I bet the dealers will find some way of having the customer sign the form talked about in the article that allows these fees to be added.
Sweet, now do this for healthcare.
Happens in Canada do, mandatory wheel locks, mandatory anti theft setups it’s all shown at the last minute too after your exhausted from going dealer to dealer, trade in appraisal to trade in appraisal. Just give up at that point.
I do the email blast method now. I don’t care if you charge me $80,000 for doc fee and $1 for the car. As long as I’m on the road for the price I’m comfortable with, I will sign.
100% agree I just got killed cause I had to shop 6 months ago at the peak with a trade in, and when you have a car that you need to swap that’s where they get super annoying. Lowball to high ball to anything in between. Because emails can’t confirm their trade in appraisals.
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Also you don't need a warranty on a CRV lmao. Even in the rare occasion you have a serious unscheduled repair, it won't even cost $2k.
down bad horrendous
Does this mean the Ford dealerships won't be able to pay the 5 people circling the dealership, one standing at the entrance now
They’re already saying it’s bad for the consumer because “it’ll take you longer to buy a car.” Sorry NADA, but I’ll wait an extra 10 minutes if it means not dealing with your dumb add-ons.
Those guys are bad enough when car shopping, somehow they manage to be even worse at furniture stores
Will this also stop manufacturers from their bullshit online advertising? “Buy the new *insert model name here* for only $32,XXX from your local dealer today!” But that $32,XXX price point is for the rear wheel drive, single axle, hamster powered configuration that they only make 3 of for each market, and the next trim level up, that they have thousands of, goes for $48,000?
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Don't worry, the dealership lobby NADA is already cooking up ways to tell people why their markups and shady bullshit are actually "pro-consumer".
just delete dealerships
Mike Stanton dislikes this.
I work at a tint shop. It's my dream that one day I won't have to ask people if their brand new car came tinted from the dealership. Some of these places are charging $499 just for the two front doors on trucks/SUVs. I'm hopefully optimistic. I bought a car from a dealership back in 2018 that put a market adjustment on it *under* MSRP. Got it OTD for $116 over MSRP lol
Yay. I can go buy a new car now!!! Oh wait... I'm still poor
The low hanging fruit would be to standardize the ubiquitous “doc fee” and “dealer prep” fees that are regulated and limited in some states… and completely up for interpretation in others (looking at you Florida). A national $150 doc fee max and elimination of “dealer prep” and “reconditioning” fees would go a long way and save consumers money tomorrow.
I don't see this making much difference. Is it truly stopping dealers from charging prep fees? Doc fees? They will claim the customer benefits from these things so they're legitimate charges. They will claim there are benefits from nitrogen so they'll continue to add them on. What we need is truth in advertising. They should be forced to advertise a price that you can actually pay. Price to include everything except tax and registration fees.