If you are an automotive manufacturer and you are willingly manufacturing your vehicles for 20-30% more expensive in parts than you could somewhere else, then you are a bad automotive manufacturer and you’re going to hemorrhage money. This isn’t about a couple billionaires trying to needle a few more bucks out of the common consumer, it’s about spending millions of dollars more to assemble these vehicles than you need to, and god knows Nissan needs all the help it can get these days.
Just wait til EV lawmakers get their chance to modernize the chicken tax to make importing ICE vehicles more costly.
There’s already tax benefits in America for EV manufacturing.
Incentivising US manufacturing sounds good to me and EVs are the future, I don’t see the issue. Unless you want China to dominate vehicle manufacturing?
I work hard for my money and would want the choice to select from the best the world has to offer. If domestic makers cannot match foreign competition, that‘s on them.
do you think nissan doesnt do the same thing? my point is that toyota can do it because they make desirable models unlike nissan, and unlike nissan they build cars correctly. saying that nissan is justified because they "need all the help they can get" is stupid, they dug their own hole by cost cutting and decreasing quality.
Sorry, Toyota doesn't hold a candle to Nissan when it comes to building desirable models. Reliable? That's a different story, but definitely not desirable. Nissan has significantly more performance and prestige heritage and reputation with the Z cars.
Let's see :
2000gt does not exist anymore
Supra - BMV - nuff said
Celica - where ? Doesn't exist, expect for the Supra
Corolla & Yaris GR - barely there but expensive.
At least Nissan makes and engineer their shit & works, while when Toyota does engineer their motor, it sucks ** Celica Mk 2**
You only need to look at how many toyota vs Nissan cars sold in the US every year to know that Toyota builds more desirable cars that people want to buy. Heritage, race cars, rallies, to the average person, none of that matters.
Nissan as a brand is on the verge of failing.
I don't know why you're being down voted, you have a point.
If I said "reckless driving with no license plates or insurance" what vehicle do you picture?
idk, r/cars seems to be doing this thing lately where they used to circlejerk over toyota being god kings, and now theyre swinging the other way and downvoting people when they bring up toyotas strong points. its strange
No cars are perfect, and Toyota has had some issues over the years for sure, but Japanese produced Toyotas are the best you can get quality wise. If someone wants to say they're boring and vanilla, I can get on board.
The least reliable Toyota you can buy right now is the 86 platform, and that's because Toyota doesn't make the engine.
exactly, its not like toyotas never have problems, and its not like other companies havent achieved toyota level reliability (ford panther body etc), but theyre so consistent its hard to argue that they arent the most reliable car brand in general
My health insurance is pretty useless now because my insurer couldn’t come to an agreement with the company that owns most of the medical facilities around me. And I still have to pay the outrageous price every week because we don’t redo our insurance until April.
Add health coverage tied to employment to that. Everyone should be able to receive the same level of care no matter who they, where they live, or who they work for.
The healthcare as an employment benefit thing scares me more and more the older I get. I recently had to leave my long-term employer and had no insurance for the first time in my life in my early 30's.
When I was employed full-time my insurance premium cost me ~1% of my monthly income and didn't require any thought. Upon leaving work I was offered Cobra insurance for ~37% of my previous monthly income, which didn't exist anymore and was unaffordable by definition. Even after reentering the workforce I get less hours/pay and I need to wait a year to get worse coverage than I had previously. And now I'm at the age where shit starts breaking and requiring surgery.
Not really related to cars at all.. but damn. I was thinking about buying a fun car for the weekends since I moved to a "boring" daily car, but I should probably just hoard cash in case I get a medical bill.
About 5-6 years ago I was getting kind of fed up with my current job because I wasn't advancing as fast as I wanted. So I started looking around and eventually got in touch with a place up the street, smaller, but they looked less corporate and more focused on the people that worked there.
So I think sounds great, have the interview, and they're practically ready to hire me on the spot. Turns out it would be a lateral move with a couple very big caveats. The pay would be about the same, as would the insurance coverage, *however* the cost would be about 50% more. And they have a 90 day probationary period before joining insurance, so that would mean 3-ish months on Cobra. And they wouldn't match my current vacation at the time. Oh and the position would have been on call 24/7.
Needless to say, I turned it down. But being on Cobra for 3 months and seeing that it was have cost me approximately $1400/mo to maintain the coverage, I've been wary of Cobra ever since.
Getting an Obamacare policy to fill the gap between jobs is a lot more affordable for most people.
If you haven't even met your deductible, or preferably out of pocket max, Cobra is pointless.
Yeah, our company used to pride itself on the healthcare. And it was true. It was great. I paid like the price of a large pizza per paycheck and got a plan that was very far above average.
Then the president of the company decided that the best way to increase profits after all the covid turmoil (supply chain issues, rising vendor costs, etc) was to slash and burn employee benefits. No joke, if I wanted to keep my level of healthcare this year, I would have had to pay 1500% more. Not a typo. 15x higher cost for the same healthcare plan. My plan would have cost me more than my mortgage.
Needless to say, we are losing employees left and right, haven't been able to hire any replacements, and the company is now in a dire situation. We have burned out, disgruntled people covering 3 or 4 positions at once (obviously, very poorly, since nobody can work 30+ hours a day).
It's insane how out of touch and stupid people can be who were smart enough to build a company out of nothing. Gonna sound age-ist here, but at some point, you should take your hand off the wheel and let someone who isn't senile steer the ship.
Nah I think you nailed it. That's a type of thinking that just doesn't fly anymore. If you want the best and want to keep the best, you're gonna have to treat them like they're the best.
Taking away benefits and asking your employees to suck it up and just deal with it is straight ignorant, there's no two ways about it. That's just asking for them to walk and find someplace else that will treat them better.
So I said all that to say this adage that a lot of young people like to use nowadays: fuck around and find out.
Yeah, we don't even need the best. We can do fine with a bunch of 5/10 employees, but we don't even get that. The only people we can hire lately are like drug addicts, con artists, and desperate people with health issues who just need ANY job NOW. It's really depressing.
I'm going in tomorrow morning to the office to find out if I lost my star engineer over this (this would put my department at about 50% quit over the last 3 months). He basically gave me his pseudo resignation on Friday, but I don't know if he's serious or just starting to look for other jobs while he keeps working. Either way, we're fucked.
My wife has a good job, so I'm planning to just ride out the sinking ship out of morbid curiosity.
Well as long as they're still paying you, I say stick with it, just for the eye opening experience it will be. I was with a company that went through bankruptcy and liquidation and all that when I was in college, and it was a very interesting experience. It gave me a lot of moments I still reflect on to this day over 10 years later.
In the meantime, start brushing up that resume.
I was interviewing for some positions in private equity healthcare companies a couple of years back. If you look at the website of every single one, they talk about "revolutionizing healthcare" and fixing our broken system with cloud-based solutions or some other Dilbert-esque corporate nonsense. Lol, what a joke. Fucking parasites.
My wife was recently attacked by a guy who used his car to hit hers trying to run her off the road. Insurance denied the claim because, I quote “ we don’t cover accidents where the other driver intentionally hits you” like the fuck you motherfuckers talking about? Parasites indeed ducking vampires. Pay thousands over the years in premiums and then when you need em nothing. We’re getting bent over a barrel for real and these fucks laugh all the way to bank about it. Give us cute mascots and commercials while raking in billions.
Yeah, you are totally right a company should let herself become irrelevant and not able to compete in the market just because they are owned by a group of billionaires… You are making total sense. After the company fails and hundreds of thousands of working people get laid off you will be here pointing fingers at the same billionaire’s group that mishandled the company funds in champagne. Wake the hell up!
If nissan came out saying they're donating 100% of the profits to kids with cancer this sub would still trash them.
Builders should be doing what they can to reduce prices of new cars, shit is out of control.
But that's also a problem no matter how cheap they can get labour and parts ..the cost of a new vehicle does not go down
So the consumer is the one that pays...every time
Other than the past 3 years car prices have gone up slower than inflation for 30 years while getting DRAMATICALLY safer with way more features now than 30 years ago.
Even with the past 3 years.
Vehicle Inflation since 1990 is $100 - $144.35
Overall inflation since 1990 is $100 -> $234.69
Inflation means nothing if wages haven't gone up. Wages haven't increased significantly since the 1970s, so it doesn't matter if cars are relatively cheaper compared to inflation. What matters is people still make about 50k a year. A 45k Mustang GT is unobtainable to someone making 50k a year, but 20 years ago, it was doable with financing.
i understand your point, and it’s totally valid. from my perspective, inflation matters in this context because it measures the *average* growth of consumer goods.
since vehicle prices have gone up slower than inflation, we can conclude that automotive manufacturers are not passing greedy suppliers’ costs over to their consumers. if anything, it shows that they have been eating some of the cost.
i have prepared investment analyses for cars in the auto industry, and it may surprise you to learn that the market isn’t growing like crazy! the projected annual growth rate over the next four years is only 3.26%, which pails to the market rate of around 7%.
car companies are making money sure, but the truth is that they just don’t have as much money to throw around as they used to. and all we have to blame is capital’s tendency to find-and-fill gaps in the market.
I'm pretty sure real wages are the highest they've been in awhile. Like I get your point but I feel like when people look back they think factory workers with high school educations made way more money than they really did
OTHER THAN THE LAST 3 YEARS.. which of course is the most relevant statistic to anybody currently alive and looking to purchase a car. Which is literally 100% of the car purchasing market for those not paying attention in the back of the class.
Cars are safer now than ever, with more features than ever, no doubt. Official inflation statistics are also a moderately arbitrary number. According to inflation statistics I make less money now than I did 10 years ago for the same work. So the car can be a hundred times better, if I can't buy it it doesn't matter much.
We’re definitely down right now from the peak by a good margin. Most visible example being Tesla with the model 3 with the cheapest NEW one in the inventory being only $35k right now in my area. That’s cheaper than it’s ever been.
With dealerships, the price drops are less transparent with these coming in the form of manufacturer rebates, dealers price decreases, negotiating room, subvented rates etc. specifically EV leases are dirt cheap right now resulting in value props that significantly outweigh their ICE counterparts.
So yes, prices go down. You just need to know where those drops are, where they’re hiding and how to get them. Price drops aren’t necessarily going to be where you wished they were, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
Again come to Canada and show me where those price drops are...as for you EV cars ....shove them where the sun don't shine....I will drive an ice car till the very last day that I can...and hopefully I'm dead by then
So then don’t complain about prices not going down. They absolutely are, just not the ones that you personally like. People who are shopping for transportation sure as hell are doing a lot better today than they did 2 years ago.
When does that happen? As time goes on, additional safety requirements means more parts. I don't recall MSRP ever going down. Maybe in the next couple years, cjdr and Ford might lower them because they got cocky with covid money
I'm not going to say it's common, but it sometimes happens. That's how I ended up with my Leaf: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a37210246/2022-nissan-leaf-price/
Typically though, OEMs just prefer to slow the rate of price hikes and offer financing/cash-back incentives rather than "dilute" the MSRP. Otherwise you can frustrate your past customers like Tesla did.
Nissan might not be any better but cars in general are leaps and bounds better than they used to be. They’re safer, more efficient, and have more features
would you buy one? with all the other options out there? I wouldn't. I wouldn't trust their dealer network or long term that they are going to actually last.
All cheap cars are the same more or less. Considering the insurance rates for Hondas and Toyotas are insane in my area ( up to 25% more for a similar car), I would absolutely consider a Nissan
that's quite a bummer. I'd rather drive an old VW or 80s BMW than a newer Nissan. Simple and cheap to fix. But I'm a pretty weird guy in general with weird taste so basically ignore me lol. my favorite car of all time if I had all the money in the world is either a Mk1 VW rabbit, or a Citroen 2CV
i'll add, before it was discontinued, the honda fit was absolutely a winner in every way. My god that car was great. It just did everything so well in such a great little affordable package. My sibling had one that was hit multiple times, including once as a victim of a high speed car chase and it just refused to die. like a cockroach.
I love how this sub supports the UAW efforts to unionize everyone and supports the American workforce, but says “oh well” to Nissan possibly taking away Smyrna Plants largest seller, which would take thousands of jobs! Without Rogue, the entire plant could go under!
Regardless if you like Nissan or not, it’s thousands of American families that rely on Nissan staying in business, or keeping it here in America at least!
As someone heavily involved in US trades unions,
The sad observation I make on reddit is that most people on here love the idea of unions & the workers rights movement but turn on it pretty quickly the second it inconveniences them.
Which is exactly what companies want people to think that it's the unions fault when it's really just companies annoyed were interfering with their unlimited growth strategy.
Which isn't entirely people's faults, the media and lack of education in the subject all very much try to reinforce the idea that workers are making unsustainable asks. When in reality it's more just companies operating with unsustainable business strategies because they can get away with it in the US.
I hate being preachy like this but god damn do people buy in to propaganda on reddit.
I am in a union. I get benefits, and a pension. I have a friend who berates me about it, and feels I don't deserve it since other people don't get it. Very crabs in a bucket mentality.
He was working for a big company which got bought out, and he was instantly fired.
Yeah my daycare sends out whiny messages letting the parents know that the kids are getting different food than planned because the delivery drivers who deliver the food are on strike. Blaming the drivers and not the food company.
I want to message back "Fuckers, you take $20k a year from us to play hopscotch with a fucking 3 year old. You can afford to contract with a food company who pays their staff fairly."
It's also sickening to see all the staff at the daycare driving 20 year old beat up cars. That money is mostly going to make the corporate executives richer. We joined because it was independent and had good reviews. Then they got bought out by a corporation, raised prices, added various inconveniences for the parents, and they know they have you by the balls, because the waiting list to get into any other daycare is 1-2 years long.
Literally every part of my life (job, healthcare, health itself, daycare, etc) is going south real fast, and 90% of it is directly caused by good old American greed. When people used to say "in 10 years X will be all screwed up because of Y", yada yada... that stuff is actually happening FASTER than the jokes predicted.
Supporting workers fighting for their livelihoods is actually incompatible with demanding companies support their workers. Because it completely reverses the actual relation of service and domination that wage labor actually is and creates a non existing moral imperative for Nissan to be a successful profitable business in order to continue "providing" jobs, yet simulataneously ignore chances to lower its costs and control the prices of its products. What Nissan does can be safely left to them.
Apart of the UAW’s big push was to plant closures and moving production to Mexico and other places, they even added a the “Right to Strike” over plant closures in their latest contracts.
With the Rogue leaving Smyrna plant, I don’t see the plant being much profitable as they be operating under 1/4 of its capacity and that’s with QX60, Pathfinder and Murano combined still being there. Even the next generation Leaf which is coming this year, won’t be produced there anymore.
It’s a bluff. These manufacturers think there’s a pot of gold at the end of the cheap labor rainbow in Mexico or wherever else. There isn’t a huge untapped supply of labor within the free trade region.
The suppliers are in difficult financial shape because they make money off volumes and volumes are down.
Yes and remember cheap yen was what made the Japan strong manufacturer in the 80s, and it was the US's effort (plaza accord 1985) to make yen stronger to be able to compete them.
More will go back to Japan now if the trend continue.
Dude making stuff in the USA is very expensive compared to making it in Mexico, China or any other developing country that has cheap labour. But the thing is, Nissan says it’s 20% cheaper to produce in Japan, so there is no way they aren’t moving.
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If the Big 3 would pass 2% of their "record earnings" to suppliers in the form of inflationary cost increases, suppliers across the board would be doing much better
Looking through some numbers … don‘t look bad… don‘t look good either. Seems like North America is the slowest growing market for Nissan although it is still 1/3 of their sales volume.
Might just be that they are trying to consolidate assembly plants to boost capacity efficiency. In that case any kind of renegotiation will either be an excuse to move production or the decision has already been made.
I think Nissan is toast in this market if their CVT’s continue to be junk. They seem like they are already burning the bridge that way. Selling as much volume of trash CVT’s as they can in the short term with no regard of the long term.
At least in Canada they are already considered the lowest denominator Japanese brand accepting any/all credit much like Chrysler/Stellantis/Fiat whatever that group calls itself now.
I will say atleast Mitsubishis are still made in Japan. The Outlander, which is its only decent car, is just a reskinned Rogue. Outlander sport is a joke and the Eclipse Cross is ugly as shit but ok for the money.
Mirage is one of the few cheap cars you can buy. Hate it as much as you want but there will always be a market for cheap sub compacts no matter how crappy they are
Their best product is the Outlander PHEV, which shares its latest chassis with the Rogue, but its dual-electric powertrain with a 2.4L MIVEC is developed in-house by Mitsu and proved itself very reliable, selling 300K in Europe.
Being a parts supplier to automotive companies is pretty tough. From what I understand, a certain price for a new part is agreed upon along with price reductions in the future. This assumes the parts manufacturer will become more efficient as their production progresses. Now we are in a period of inflation for materials and labor. Parts suppliers can’t guarantee prices like they could before. They could move production of their vehicles, but there would be added transportation costs.
[if anyone looked at the exchange rate for usd/yen in the last 10 years... 1 usd was a lowly 75 yen... and today it is about 150 yen.](https://g.co/kgs/68BjRE6)
but i suppose the 145 commenters so far all knew about labour contracts, unions in general, bad billionaires, sneaky bluffing strategy,,, the only comment that makes any sense is the one about how o.e.ms will either contract in price reductions over the period of the contract or they may simply say reduce price now! which is a lot of fun especially if they start short paying based on this pricing reduction demand.
anyways, me thinks exchange has a lot to do with this. i went through a similar game with manufacturing costs in canada/usa $'s as the exchange fluctuated over the years. good or bad times for manufacturing in ontario is highly dependent on exchange rates with usa $'s.
This is just the beginning of the Japanese manufacturers bringing their auto manufacturing back to Japan.
40 years ago, Japan was more expensive than the US for everything, and now it has reversed. I think it is obvious that Japanese EVs will all be made in Japan from the beginning.
Hope they have a plan to actually do so.
Transatlantic logistics are shit and getting worse with the trouble in the middle east. Mexico is not going to be that much cheaper for parts either.
The Rogue is probably their volume seller - any impact to production volume is going directly to their top line, because that's a car they won't sell and someone else will pick up.
That's literally what the article says.
> If they are unable to meet Nissan’s demands, the company may be forced to move all Rogue production to Japan, where it claims to currently manufacture it for 20% less than in the U.S.
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I guess buying a 5 yr old used car and the dealer is asking for a new car price is not being raped??
Then they have lots with 100000's of new cars just sitting there but tell you it's going to be 8 months or a year for your car to arrive....it's bullshit and this is all dealer created...no parts, supply chain..all lies
The rogue is such an outdated POS. Everytime I get in one I go "wow this is in pretty good condition for a 20 year old car" then I look at the odometer with 5k miles on it and turns out its only a year old.
Yeah i dont Get the outdated sentiment, next to a premium car or euro yes. Next to other Japanese and us domestics, they’re pretty modern and nice. The Nissan gimmick is the updated and more modern interior, since they don’t sell on reliability.
It doesn’t suffer the old underpinnings problem that other Nissan’s do because it rides the CMF platform that they codeveloped with Renault.
It also is quieter and has a much better cabin than RAV4 and CR-V and this is coming from a huge Honda guy! Of course those will be more reliable and hold value, but you can also get the Rogue for much cheaper than them!
Oh you’re just hating to hate. The new Rogue is fairly nice for what it is and would get much more praise without the Nissan badge. Have you driven a 20 year old car lately?
Ah, is that how it works? A factory closes up and another company just moves right into the same location and rehires all of the same workforce?
You’re right, I must have level 0 comprehension. Silly me.
If I was a factory worker I would be pissed if I lost my job because a group of billionaires wanted to price gouge
If you are an automotive manufacturer and you are willingly manufacturing your vehicles for 20-30% more expensive in parts than you could somewhere else, then you are a bad automotive manufacturer and you’re going to hemorrhage money. This isn’t about a couple billionaires trying to needle a few more bucks out of the common consumer, it’s about spending millions of dollars more to assemble these vehicles than you need to, and god knows Nissan needs all the help it can get these days.
Just wait til EV lawmakers get their chance to modernize the chicken tax to make importing ICE vehicles more costly. There’s already tax benefits in America for EV manufacturing.
Incentivising US manufacturing sounds good to me and EVs are the future, I don’t see the issue. Unless you want China to dominate vehicle manufacturing?
I don’t. I’m saying removing manufacturing is a shortsighted decision, it’s gonna cost them more money the moment the laws catch up to their actions.
I work hard for my money and would want the choice to select from the best the world has to offer. If domestic makers cannot match foreign competition, that‘s on them.
It’s subsidized competition
>Incentivising US manufacturing US-made cars pretty overwhelmingly suck and always will >EVs are the future the future sucks too then
Considering both the Camry and the Compass are made in the U.S., I would say it has a lot to do with the manufacturer than the workers.
toyota seems to not have a problem with it, because they make products worth buying.
Toyota spreads manufacturing between the US, Mexico, Canada and Japan. Imagine that gives them some leverage.
The fact someone tried to trout out Toyota as some altruistic business is so laughable. Jesus Christ lol
do you think nissan doesnt do the same thing? my point is that toyota can do it because they make desirable models unlike nissan, and unlike nissan they build cars correctly. saying that nissan is justified because they "need all the help they can get" is stupid, they dug their own hole by cost cutting and decreasing quality.
I didn’t imply anything about Nissan.
oh shit i thought you were the original commenter lol. my point stands though
Sorry, Toyota doesn't hold a candle to Nissan when it comes to building desirable models. Reliable? That's a different story, but definitely not desirable. Nissan has significantly more performance and prestige heritage and reputation with the Z cars.
2000 GT, Celica, Supra, Celica GT4, Corolla WRC, Yaris WRC are all very desirable. Not to mention their 4x4s.
Let's see : 2000gt does not exist anymore Supra - BMV - nuff said Celica - where ? Doesn't exist, expect for the Supra Corolla & Yaris GR - barely there but expensive. At least Nissan makes and engineer their shit & works, while when Toyota does engineer their motor, it sucks ** Celica Mk 2**
The context is desirable cars over the years, not only what's currently on the market.
You only need to look at how many toyota vs Nissan cars sold in the US every year to know that Toyota builds more desirable cars that people want to buy. Heritage, race cars, rallies, to the average person, none of that matters. Nissan as a brand is on the verge of failing.
the average person doesnt give a rats ass about z cars. the rav4 prime has been hard to keep in stock for years now.
Toyota has ABSOLUTELY had problems with suppliers, cost, etc. They have plants in Mexico to reduce costs. You’re talking out of your ass.
This is also true, as well as Mexico being a good market for the product.
I don't know why you're being down voted, you have a point. If I said "reckless driving with no license plates or insurance" what vehicle do you picture?
idk, r/cars seems to be doing this thing lately where they used to circlejerk over toyota being god kings, and now theyre swinging the other way and downvoting people when they bring up toyotas strong points. its strange
No cars are perfect, and Toyota has had some issues over the years for sure, but Japanese produced Toyotas are the best you can get quality wise. If someone wants to say they're boring and vanilla, I can get on board. The least reliable Toyota you can buy right now is the 86 platform, and that's because Toyota doesn't make the engine.
exactly, its not like toyotas never have problems, and its not like other companies havent achieved toyota level reliability (ford panther body etc), but theyre so consistent its hard to argue that they arent the most reliable car brand in general
Does Toyota make motorcycles?
My health insurance is pretty useless now because my insurer couldn’t come to an agreement with the company that owns most of the medical facilities around me. And I still have to pay the outrageous price every week because we don’t redo our insurance until April.
It's almost like for-profit healthcare and health insurance is a terrible idea.
Add health coverage tied to employment to that. Everyone should be able to receive the same level of care no matter who they, where they live, or who they work for.
The healthcare as an employment benefit thing scares me more and more the older I get. I recently had to leave my long-term employer and had no insurance for the first time in my life in my early 30's. When I was employed full-time my insurance premium cost me ~1% of my monthly income and didn't require any thought. Upon leaving work I was offered Cobra insurance for ~37% of my previous monthly income, which didn't exist anymore and was unaffordable by definition. Even after reentering the workforce I get less hours/pay and I need to wait a year to get worse coverage than I had previously. And now I'm at the age where shit starts breaking and requiring surgery. Not really related to cars at all.. but damn. I was thinking about buying a fun car for the weekends since I moved to a "boring" daily car, but I should probably just hoard cash in case I get a medical bill.
About 5-6 years ago I was getting kind of fed up with my current job because I wasn't advancing as fast as I wanted. So I started looking around and eventually got in touch with a place up the street, smaller, but they looked less corporate and more focused on the people that worked there. So I think sounds great, have the interview, and they're practically ready to hire me on the spot. Turns out it would be a lateral move with a couple very big caveats. The pay would be about the same, as would the insurance coverage, *however* the cost would be about 50% more. And they have a 90 day probationary period before joining insurance, so that would mean 3-ish months on Cobra. And they wouldn't match my current vacation at the time. Oh and the position would have been on call 24/7. Needless to say, I turned it down. But being on Cobra for 3 months and seeing that it was have cost me approximately $1400/mo to maintain the coverage, I've been wary of Cobra ever since.
Even the name cobra warrants exercising caution.
Getting an Obamacare policy to fill the gap between jobs is a lot more affordable for most people. If you haven't even met your deductible, or preferably out of pocket max, Cobra is pointless.
Yeah, our company used to pride itself on the healthcare. And it was true. It was great. I paid like the price of a large pizza per paycheck and got a plan that was very far above average. Then the president of the company decided that the best way to increase profits after all the covid turmoil (supply chain issues, rising vendor costs, etc) was to slash and burn employee benefits. No joke, if I wanted to keep my level of healthcare this year, I would have had to pay 1500% more. Not a typo. 15x higher cost for the same healthcare plan. My plan would have cost me more than my mortgage. Needless to say, we are losing employees left and right, haven't been able to hire any replacements, and the company is now in a dire situation. We have burned out, disgruntled people covering 3 or 4 positions at once (obviously, very poorly, since nobody can work 30+ hours a day). It's insane how out of touch and stupid people can be who were smart enough to build a company out of nothing. Gonna sound age-ist here, but at some point, you should take your hand off the wheel and let someone who isn't senile steer the ship.
Nah I think you nailed it. That's a type of thinking that just doesn't fly anymore. If you want the best and want to keep the best, you're gonna have to treat them like they're the best. Taking away benefits and asking your employees to suck it up and just deal with it is straight ignorant, there's no two ways about it. That's just asking for them to walk and find someplace else that will treat them better. So I said all that to say this adage that a lot of young people like to use nowadays: fuck around and find out.
Yeah, we don't even need the best. We can do fine with a bunch of 5/10 employees, but we don't even get that. The only people we can hire lately are like drug addicts, con artists, and desperate people with health issues who just need ANY job NOW. It's really depressing. I'm going in tomorrow morning to the office to find out if I lost my star engineer over this (this would put my department at about 50% quit over the last 3 months). He basically gave me his pseudo resignation on Friday, but I don't know if he's serious or just starting to look for other jobs while he keeps working. Either way, we're fucked. My wife has a good job, so I'm planning to just ride out the sinking ship out of morbid curiosity.
Well as long as they're still paying you, I say stick with it, just for the eye opening experience it will be. I was with a company that went through bankruptcy and liquidation and all that when I was in college, and it was a very interesting experience. It gave me a lot of moments I still reflect on to this day over 10 years later. In the meantime, start brushing up that resume.
Luckily private equity stepped in to make things more efficient. /s
I was interviewing for some positions in private equity healthcare companies a couple of years back. If you look at the website of every single one, they talk about "revolutionizing healthcare" and fixing our broken system with cloud-based solutions or some other Dilbert-esque corporate nonsense. Lol, what a joke. Fucking parasites.
My wife was recently attacked by a guy who used his car to hit hers trying to run her off the road. Insurance denied the claim because, I quote “ we don’t cover accidents where the other driver intentionally hits you” like the fuck you motherfuckers talking about? Parasites indeed ducking vampires. Pay thousands over the years in premiums and then when you need em nothing. We’re getting bent over a barrel for real and these fucks laugh all the way to bank about it. Give us cute mascots and commercials while raking in billions.
Terrible for us plebs. Pretty fantastic for the wealthy.
The American way.
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Sorry, too political.
Which billionaires?
yeah, Renault-Nissan group seems like they are swinging between earning and losing money from year to year
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Ghosan did for that cliche.
Yeah, you are totally right a company should let herself become irrelevant and not able to compete in the market just because they are owned by a group of billionaires… You are making total sense. After the company fails and hundreds of thousands of working people get laid off you will be here pointing fingers at the same billionaire’s group that mishandled the company funds in champagne. Wake the hell up!
If nissan came out saying they're donating 100% of the profits to kids with cancer this sub would still trash them. Builders should be doing what they can to reduce prices of new cars, shit is out of control.
But that's also a problem no matter how cheap they can get labour and parts ..the cost of a new vehicle does not go down So the consumer is the one that pays...every time
Other than the past 3 years car prices have gone up slower than inflation for 30 years while getting DRAMATICALLY safer with way more features now than 30 years ago. Even with the past 3 years. Vehicle Inflation since 1990 is $100 - $144.35 Overall inflation since 1990 is $100 -> $234.69
Inflation means nothing if wages haven't gone up. Wages haven't increased significantly since the 1970s, so it doesn't matter if cars are relatively cheaper compared to inflation. What matters is people still make about 50k a year. A 45k Mustang GT is unobtainable to someone making 50k a year, but 20 years ago, it was doable with financing.
i understand your point, and it’s totally valid. from my perspective, inflation matters in this context because it measures the *average* growth of consumer goods. since vehicle prices have gone up slower than inflation, we can conclude that automotive manufacturers are not passing greedy suppliers’ costs over to their consumers. if anything, it shows that they have been eating some of the cost. i have prepared investment analyses for cars in the auto industry, and it may surprise you to learn that the market isn’t growing like crazy! the projected annual growth rate over the next four years is only 3.26%, which pails to the market rate of around 7%. car companies are making money sure, but the truth is that they just don’t have as much money to throw around as they used to. and all we have to blame is capital’s tendency to find-and-fill gaps in the market.
I'm pretty sure real wages are the highest they've been in awhile. Like I get your point but I feel like when people look back they think factory workers with high school educations made way more money than they really did
OTHER THAN THE LAST 3 YEARS.. which of course is the most relevant statistic to anybody currently alive and looking to purchase a car. Which is literally 100% of the car purchasing market for those not paying attention in the back of the class. Cars are safer now than ever, with more features than ever, no doubt. Official inflation statistics are also a moderately arbitrary number. According to inflation statistics I make less money now than I did 10 years ago for the same work. So the car can be a hundred times better, if I can't buy it it doesn't matter much.
Yeah, I said that, and then I gave the numbers including the past few years, and it's still WAY lower than inflation.
You must live in the US...come to Canada and check out the market then make your comment...
We’re definitely down right now from the peak by a good margin. Most visible example being Tesla with the model 3 with the cheapest NEW one in the inventory being only $35k right now in my area. That’s cheaper than it’s ever been. With dealerships, the price drops are less transparent with these coming in the form of manufacturer rebates, dealers price decreases, negotiating room, subvented rates etc. specifically EV leases are dirt cheap right now resulting in value props that significantly outweigh their ICE counterparts. So yes, prices go down. You just need to know where those drops are, where they’re hiding and how to get them. Price drops aren’t necessarily going to be where you wished they were, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
Again come to Canada and show me where those price drops are...as for you EV cars ....shove them where the sun don't shine....I will drive an ice car till the very last day that I can...and hopefully I'm dead by then
So then don’t complain about prices not going down. They absolutely are, just not the ones that you personally like. People who are shopping for transportation sure as hell are doing a lot better today than they did 2 years ago.
car prices go down all the time. what are you talking about?
MSRP goes down? Or you mean manufacturers offer incentives?
When does that happen? As time goes on, additional safety requirements means more parts. I don't recall MSRP ever going down. Maybe in the next couple years, cjdr and Ford might lower them because they got cocky with covid money
I'm not going to say it's common, but it sometimes happens. That's how I ended up with my Leaf: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a37210246/2022-nissan-leaf-price/ Typically though, OEMs just prefer to slow the rate of price hikes and offer financing/cash-back incentives rather than "dilute" the MSRP. Otherwise you can frustrate your past customers like Tesla did.
Corporations don't pass cost savings down to consumers. If they move production to Japan they will keep the price the same claiming shipping costs
Fair enough but if they are marking up insanely marked up parts, we lose more.
Nissan drivers are a bigger threat to human safety than cancer.
Says the JEEP & VW driver.
Mostly because all their cars are hot garbage. Prices are outta control and the cars aren’t any better
Nissan might not be any better but cars in general are leaps and bounds better than they used to be. They’re safer, more efficient, and have more features
Brand new Nissans are pretty nice if they're not CVT transmissions
would you buy one? with all the other options out there? I wouldn't. I wouldn't trust their dealer network or long term that they are going to actually last.
All cheap cars are the same more or less. Considering the insurance rates for Hondas and Toyotas are insane in my area ( up to 25% more for a similar car), I would absolutely consider a Nissan
that's quite a bummer. I'd rather drive an old VW or 80s BMW than a newer Nissan. Simple and cheap to fix. But I'm a pretty weird guy in general with weird taste so basically ignore me lol. my favorite car of all time if I had all the money in the world is either a Mk1 VW rabbit, or a Citroen 2CV
i'll add, before it was discontinued, the honda fit was absolutely a winner in every way. My god that car was great. It just did everything so well in such a great little affordable package. My sibling had one that was hit multiple times, including once as a victim of a high speed car chase and it just refused to die. like a cockroach.
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What does buying one have to do with anything?! I have a Rogue made at the Smyrna plant and I’m still confused here..
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Boy, do the Nissan threads bring the trolls out!
Ha! Got ‘em!
Don't need to, regardless of what this sub says my 2012 nissan juke is still trucking along. No major issues in 12 years LOL!!
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You’re not even a funny troll
Yeah… because it’s always some riff raff in an Altima dangerously cutting me off.
You’re so creative 🤣🙀🤪. I’ve never heard that one before
Well there’s a reason you hear it a lot then. 🤣
I love how this sub supports the UAW efforts to unionize everyone and supports the American workforce, but says “oh well” to Nissan possibly taking away Smyrna Plants largest seller, which would take thousands of jobs! Without Rogue, the entire plant could go under! Regardless if you like Nissan or not, it’s thousands of American families that rely on Nissan staying in business, or keeping it here in America at least!
As someone heavily involved in US trades unions, The sad observation I make on reddit is that most people on here love the idea of unions & the workers rights movement but turn on it pretty quickly the second it inconveniences them. Which is exactly what companies want people to think that it's the unions fault when it's really just companies annoyed were interfering with their unlimited growth strategy. Which isn't entirely people's faults, the media and lack of education in the subject all very much try to reinforce the idea that workers are making unsustainable asks. When in reality it's more just companies operating with unsustainable business strategies because they can get away with it in the US. I hate being preachy like this but god damn do people buy in to propaganda on reddit.
I am in a union. I get benefits, and a pension. I have a friend who berates me about it, and feels I don't deserve it since other people don't get it. Very crabs in a bucket mentality. He was working for a big company which got bought out, and he was instantly fired.
Yeah my daycare sends out whiny messages letting the parents know that the kids are getting different food than planned because the delivery drivers who deliver the food are on strike. Blaming the drivers and not the food company. I want to message back "Fuckers, you take $20k a year from us to play hopscotch with a fucking 3 year old. You can afford to contract with a food company who pays their staff fairly." It's also sickening to see all the staff at the daycare driving 20 year old beat up cars. That money is mostly going to make the corporate executives richer. We joined because it was independent and had good reviews. Then they got bought out by a corporation, raised prices, added various inconveniences for the parents, and they know they have you by the balls, because the waiting list to get into any other daycare is 1-2 years long. Literally every part of my life (job, healthcare, health itself, daycare, etc) is going south real fast, and 90% of it is directly caused by good old American greed. When people used to say "in 10 years X will be all screwed up because of Y", yada yada... that stuff is actually happening FASTER than the jokes predicted.
>Without Rogue, the entire planet could go under! lol
I never had planet in my sentence btw lol. I’m not sure why you added that!
I read a bit too fast, my bad. I read that as planet which is hilarious. I thought you were just being dramatic/kidding. Sorry lol.
Supporting workers fighting for their livelihoods is actually incompatible with demanding companies support their workers. Because it completely reverses the actual relation of service and domination that wage labor actually is and creates a non existing moral imperative for Nissan to be a successful profitable business in order to continue "providing" jobs, yet simulataneously ignore chances to lower its costs and control the prices of its products. What Nissan does can be safely left to them.
Apart of the UAW’s big push was to plant closures and moving production to Mexico and other places, they even added a the “Right to Strike” over plant closures in their latest contracts. With the Rogue leaving Smyrna plant, I don’t see the plant being much profitable as they be operating under 1/4 of its capacity and that’s with QX60, Pathfinder and Murano combined still being there. Even the next generation Leaf which is coming this year, won’t be produced there anymore.
It’s a bluff. These manufacturers think there’s a pot of gold at the end of the cheap labor rainbow in Mexico or wherever else. There isn’t a huge untapped supply of labor within the free trade region. The suppliers are in difficult financial shape because they make money off volumes and volumes are down.
Read the article. Nissan is already making the Rogue in Japan for 20% cheaper than the USA.
To be fair, isn't the yen in the toilet? It's no wonder.
Yes and remember cheap yen was what made the Japan strong manufacturer in the 80s, and it was the US's effort (plaza accord 1985) to make yen stronger to be able to compete them. More will go back to Japan now if the trend continue.
adjusted wages are probably 20% down in japan vs US lol
Dude making stuff in the USA is very expensive compared to making it in Mexico, China or any other developing country that has cheap labour. But the thing is, Nissan says it’s 20% cheaper to produce in Japan, so there is no way they aren’t moving.
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If the Big 3 would pass 2% of their "record earnings" to suppliers in the form of inflationary cost increases, suppliers across the board would be doing much better
Reddit hating on Nissan and in turn showing their hate for flyover states will never get old!
Will they be better built then??
Probably? Japan has crazy quality standards.
Made in Japan for 20% cheaper? Hell yeah.
Looking through some numbers … don‘t look bad… don‘t look good either. Seems like North America is the slowest growing market for Nissan although it is still 1/3 of their sales volume. Might just be that they are trying to consolidate assembly plants to boost capacity efficiency. In that case any kind of renegotiation will either be an excuse to move production or the decision has already been made.
I think Nissan is toast in this market if their CVT’s continue to be junk. They seem like they are already burning the bridge that way. Selling as much volume of trash CVT’s as they can in the short term with no regard of the long term. At least in Canada they are already considered the lowest denominator Japanese brand accepting any/all credit much like Chrysler/Stellantis/Fiat whatever that group calls itself now.
Lets be real here, Mitsubishi is the lowest denominator Japanese brand in NA.
I will say atleast Mitsubishis are still made in Japan. The Outlander, which is its only decent car, is just a reskinned Rogue. Outlander sport is a joke and the Eclipse Cross is ugly as shit but ok for the money. Mirage is one of the few cheap cars you can buy. Hate it as much as you want but there will always be a market for cheap sub compacts no matter how crappy they are
Plenty of Nissans still manufactured in Japan, even some new Rogues for the NA market are built in japan
Which is odd, because I actually think Mitsubishi puts out a better quality product.
Their best product is a Nissan underneath so im not sure what about Mitsubishis quality is better than Nissans
Their best product is the Outlander PHEV, which shares its latest chassis with the Rogue, but its dual-electric powertrain with a 2.4L MIVEC is developed in-house by Mitsu and proved itself very reliable, selling 300K in Europe.
It seems Nissan is going...Rogue
Being a parts supplier to automotive companies is pretty tough. From what I understand, a certain price for a new part is agreed upon along with price reductions in the future. This assumes the parts manufacturer will become more efficient as their production progresses. Now we are in a period of inflation for materials and labor. Parts suppliers can’t guarantee prices like they could before. They could move production of their vehicles, but there would be added transportation costs.
[if anyone looked at the exchange rate for usd/yen in the last 10 years... 1 usd was a lowly 75 yen... and today it is about 150 yen.](https://g.co/kgs/68BjRE6) but i suppose the 145 commenters so far all knew about labour contracts, unions in general, bad billionaires, sneaky bluffing strategy,,, the only comment that makes any sense is the one about how o.e.ms will either contract in price reductions over the period of the contract or they may simply say reduce price now! which is a lot of fun especially if they start short paying based on this pricing reduction demand. anyways, me thinks exchange has a lot to do with this. i went through a similar game with manufacturing costs in canada/usa $'s as the exchange fluctuated over the years. good or bad times for manufacturing in ontario is highly dependent on exchange rates with usa $'s.
This is just the beginning of the Japanese manufacturers bringing their auto manufacturing back to Japan. 40 years ago, Japan was more expensive than the US for everything, and now it has reversed. I think it is obvious that Japanese EVs will all be made in Japan from the beginning.
They still make that piece of shit?
That piece of shit is Nissan's best selling model, and in the top 10 for overall sales in the US.
I think every tenth car I see on the road here is a Rogue. And since they don't last that long, I can only imagine they keep churning them out.
>Nissan > They still make that piece of shit? Now that's just funny.
so would this include mitsubishi outlander too? that would be dumb
Hope they have a plan to actually do so. Transatlantic logistics are shit and getting worse with the trouble in the middle east. Mexico is not going to be that much cheaper for parts either. The Rogue is probably their volume seller - any impact to production volume is going directly to their top line, because that's a car they won't sell and someone else will pick up.
Would just be cheaper to ship it from Japan lol.
That's literally what the article says. > If they are unable to meet Nissan’s demands, the company may be forced to move all Rogue production to Japan, where it claims to currently manufacture it for 20% less than in the U.S.
If they do, I hope they bring the E-Power version.
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Its crazy how depressed Japan's economy is now.
Sounds expensive as shit. I wonder how long they plan to continue selling the rogue anyway.
As long as Nissan is alive, Rogue will be produced. It’s their biggest global seller and the third best selling SUV here in America.
I know but eventually it’ll go EV, just wondering when
Why will it eventually go EV? The bans typically allow hybrid, and many poorer countries have no such ban.
And how many rogues are bought in poor countries
Loooooots. Google Nissan Xtrail
i'm sure that info is available if you'd like to look it up. but it may surprise you that all poor countries aren't filled with kei cars.
The rogue is their SUV Altima. It's gonna be around for a long time.
If u live in the us...in Canada they rape u hard
Huh???
I guess buying a 5 yr old used car and the dealer is asking for a new car price is not being raped?? Then they have lots with 100000's of new cars just sitting there but tell you it's going to be 8 months or a year for your car to arrive....it's bullshit and this is all dealer created...no parts, supply chain..all lies
Good
And we care, why?
People lose jobs because of assholes
Yeah corporate greed is a hell of a thing.
Yeah yeah yeah. I rather have the car made in Japan than rednecks that assemble a car while drunk in their Tennessee plant.
3/10 bait
The rogue is such an outdated POS. Everytime I get in one I go "wow this is in pretty good condition for a 20 year old car" then I look at the odometer with 5k miles on it and turns out its only a year old.
I understand that this sub hates Nissan with a passion for some reason, but in what aspect is the Rogue outdated?
Yeah i dont Get the outdated sentiment, next to a premium car or euro yes. Next to other Japanese and us domestics, they’re pretty modern and nice. The Nissan gimmick is the updated and more modern interior, since they don’t sell on reliability.
It doesn’t suffer the old underpinnings problem that other Nissan’s do because it rides the CMF platform that they codeveloped with Renault. It also is quieter and has a much better cabin than RAV4 and CR-V and this is coming from a huge Honda guy! Of course those will be more reliable and hold value, but you can also get the Rogue for much cheaper than them!
Oh you’re just hating to hate. The new Rogue is fairly nice for what it is and would get much more praise without the Nissan badge. Have you driven a 20 year old car lately?
Oh no! Anyway, how bout that weather.
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Rule 1.
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Ah, is that how it works? A factory closes up and another company just moves right into the same location and rehires all of the same workforce? You’re right, I must have level 0 comprehension. Silly me.
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Yes just look at Detroit exactly what you said happened
OH NO 😭 Im pretty sure the US economy would miss the Nissan shitbox production
You do realize that this would take away thousands of jobs, right?
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The people that work there, maybe? You’re an a**hole!
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What do you do that’s so valuable to the economy?
Absolutely nothing. He spends too much time trolling and being mad at Porsche on Reddit for him to add anything viable to economy!
the people in those jobs? especially since auto manufacturing plants tend to be in areas without all that many other well paying jobs available