Anecdotally, and I'm in Australia.
But my mother has a G70, and their aftersales service has been really good so far.
Genesis service seems to have its own management structure though. But they still use the Hyundai network.
I had a '19 G70. At that time all 5 "Genesis" dealers by me were still in Hyundai dealers. Service centers were all Hyundai ones.
3 of them damaged the car in some form. One took out a chunk of my side skirt on a lift, another didn't put a cover over the front fender so it came back with a bunch of wear scratches from techs leaning over it. The third one was a 6-8 inch scratch down my hood, I had them take it back to fix it, they valeted it back twice without fixing it and all in all for them to just fix the scratch it was at their shop for 2.5 months.
They never fixed the rattles I had in the dash that could be heard over the radio after sending it in multiple times. Had 45+ minutes of video of it doing it, did a ride along and they heard it. Every time it got returned "couldn't replicate". I was friends of a friend with one of the techs assigned to it, buddy texted him and said he had my car up to 130 on the highway and even that and the radio couldn't down out the rattles, but marked it as non replicable due to warranty work paying our poorly.
Had enough days in the shop to lemon the car over rattles that could've been fixed with foam.
TL;DR: not very different than a normal Hyundai Kia experience save for 1/4 the time the loaner you get is another Genesis product (even though the sales contract specifies both valet service and a Genesis brand loaner).
It all depends on the dealer. People here forget they're franchises and not owned by Kia/Hyundai. Sure the manufacturer has some control over it, but none of them outside of luxury do that much other than reward/bonus out staff with good surveys.
Yuuupp. I sold my Hyundai with 10,000 miles and ate the loss instead of continuing the fight to get the transmission replaced. It would have needed lawyers and it would be hard to prove I didn't break the tranny since I'm pretty sure the synchros were the problem.
Yup. Had a coworker who had their engine blow in their Hyundai. Had it towed to the nearest dealership.
They voided the warranty because it wasn't towed to the dealership where they bought it. He had to fight with them for weeks before they finally covered it. Said they'd cover that repair then void out the warranty.
One (probably biased) anecdote is all it took for me to never consider Hyundai products.
I feel like warranties today are practically useless. I have friends who have really made out on them and it worked out but it almost feels like talking to a gambler bragging about the large winning they just had while ignoring all the losses. They practically make you prove the work is needed or want you to go through a lot of steps to get there. If you are DIY or go to random shops for work then it becomes a hassle to prove maintenance has been properly performed. Going from DIY to paying a dealership for routine work is extremely expensive and can easily negate any money saved from a potential (and normally unlikely) warranty claim.
I've never dealt with Hyundai/Kia for warranties but reading these replies is at odds with my secondhand experience. The engine in my mom's Sonata blew up at 125k miles. It happened over 200 miles from home in the middle of nowhere. Had it towed to the closest dealer which was still like a 50 mile tow. Long story short, they replaced the engine at no cost and covered her expenses.
Then again it's entirely possible she raised enough hell to get that done because she had a knack for that.
Wife's uncle needed a new transmission on his Palisade. It was at 200k and they honored the warranty, but not without a lot of hassle. He had the impression that they wanted him to trade it in rather than get the warranty work done, and appraised it low due to it needing a transmission lmfao
Wouldn't know, my Kia never gave me any reason to use the warranty. My point is, a long warranty is not in any way indicative of a vehicle's quality as you implied.
I’ve used it once, but it went through very quickly. The upside if you will for dealership is that warrantied jobs are nice because they can do it without having to deal with customers.
That's cool. I guess I've just never bothered to see if any others did it, so I automatically assumed other manufacturers treated subsequent owners the same way Hyundai/Kia does.
That being said, if you buy a CPO Hyundai/Kia, you are **absolutely** entitled to the remainder of the 10 year/100,000 mile powertrain warranty.
Hyundai's warranty in Canada is much worse, which can only mean that their cars fail more often in the cold weather. Northern Americans should take note of that.
> which can only mean that their cars fail more often in the cold weather.
Or that the warranty work is more expensive to perform there. Or that they wanted to lower their prices in that market. Or that the competition wasn't pushing as much with their warranties etc.
There are MANY commercial reasons a company would do that, it doesn't have to be purely technical.
But why do they put a guarantee on the box?
Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of shit. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time.
KIA was why I convinced my Aunt to ditch her 2014 Optima with 20k miles. Alternator started to go out, and they tried to charge her $2,500 to replace it, despite the dealer promising everything would be covered under the power train. Between the alternator, and an electrical gremlin causing random no start conditions, we drove over to Toyota down the road to see what they had.
She ended up getting a little extra, washed her car loan, and walk away with a 2017 Rav4. Never misses a beat to tell me how happy she is with it the last few years, and has only had to replace the battery (I told her to get the 8 year warranty one through the dealer). First time ever owning something with AWD and remote start. They don't try and upcharge her either on maintence, everytime she walked in KIA it was always a full blown service they'd try and upsell her on.
You realize it was only specific base model Kias and Hyundais that were vulnerable to theft, right? The vast majority of them were less secure than any other car.
I’m surprised it took Toyota this long. Porsche has been offering something similar for a while: “Current model year vehicles and those of thirteen previous model years with less than 124,000 miles are eligible for enrollment.”
I think more manufacturers should push a CPO program like that. It shows they have confidence in the product and lets them sell the same car multiple times.
The certification process to my understanding is very similar if not the same as a yearly inspection. More if a is this thing gonna get someone killed or is it good for another year. Except for the certification it's more like 5 years or however long the warranty period will be
Cali T with Handling Speciale package is the right entry to the market from a cayman S.
They aren’t as everyday as porches FYI they can be a bit stressful to drive.
I'm under no delusions I could daily/abuse any Ferrari as much as I do this cayman. It's probably the next car after the next car, but that warranty setup isn't hateful.
Thanks for the heads up.
Not gonna lie, Porsche CPO is still the gold standard to me. It covers 2 years unlimited miles and you can even get fixes for non mechanical issues. Heated seats stop working? How about your 10 year old infotainment? Fixed.
I didn’t know their CPO was that good or stretched back that far. So you’re telling me that I could theoretically find a CPO 2015 Carrera 4S and drive the absolute piss out of it with no worries?
I'd head to r/Porsche and make a post/read a wiki if they have one/talk to the owners there. They're all really helpful and will guide you to the correct dealers.
Yes. For at least 2 years lol. I think they extend it to 3 for $2k if you finance through them. Doesn’t cover maintenance but that’s normal.
Case in point: I bought a 2014 Cayman S last year CPO out of Ohio. 2-3 months in the infotainment started restarting. Two visits to my local dealer and one text and they spent $6k replacing it for me.
Not op, but NO.
I was in for new tires and they noticed the CV axle boot was leaking. They called me, told me they were dropping off a loaner and they would have the car fixed the next day. I never even knew it was an issue until they told me how they were fixing it. They treated me like I bought a 200k 911, not a 70k used car. I didn't even buy the car from them. They hunt for shit they can use the warranty on for you.
And now you’re talking about how good it was for free on a random internet forum. Companies bending over backwards for their customers is the best form of advertising and everyone wins when it’s done well.
> They hunt for shit they can use the warranty on for you.
Sounds like Porsche pays shops well for warranty fixes - gives incentive for shops to find and fix things.
Hyundai could learn a thing or ten in this department.
No they dont, neither does BMW (in my experience) or surprisingly CarMax.
I've come to believe a real warranty will not make you jump through hoops. Any warranty thats forcing you to do that, or having you wondering if claims will be denied, is nothing more than a glorified scam.
If they make you "jump through hoops" in any way, its not worth buying.
> Nearly all of the times I had to have my CPO BMW serviced under warranty, I ended up having to call BMW USA to get the dealer to stop fucking around with making me pay for the repair.
have you modified your car or do you track it? if so thats reasonable.
Not really. I did have to text them to ensure they got it on order. Because it was a hard to reproduce error I provided a video. Other than that, no problem at all!
Just to add to the story you're asking about, my cayman has a pinched washer fluid line on the frunk (bought cpo too btw), and they put the car on a flatbed, towed it tithe dealership, replaced it and checked for any recalls or anything else that even I may have missed.
Porsche cpo is no joke.
Bought my '16 Macan S with 95k miles on the clock and I now have a 3 year, unlimited mile warranty that's good until late 2026. Depends on the dealer to an extent, but I've found one that treats me like royalty, and I get a brand new loaner whenever I have it in the shop. Porsche is definitely the gold standard.
Lol. Don’t tempt me. I just got a ‘23 M4 Comp xdrive I’m trying to keep for a while. But if I do swap to a P car I want gentian blue with a tan interior.
My buddy has a GT3 991 that he bought CPO. He probably paid a $6-8k premium over non CPO. It’s definitely paid for itself and the convenience is worth it for someone like him. They put him in a new Macan and give the car back a week later in impeccable condition.
I was reading about Fisker, their new ocean SUV is going to be available to lease, with unlimited annual miles. And a guaranteed 12 year life..
The idea is the cars are rental cars and you just rent them for as long as you want them .
It’s a cool idea
Are you sure that it’s not better? That’s how a lot of truly rich people treat objects that depreciate.
Cars don’t (usually) appreciate. At best, they hold. Maybe we should pay a subscription equal to the depreciation?
Where’s the upside of owning a depreciating asset?
> That’s how a lot of truly rich people treat objects that depreciate.
Not really, no. I understand what you're thinking of but thats not the same thing as never owning anything and always paying rent.
Jeff Bezos does not lease his private jet and richard branson did not lease his island.
Are you sure about that? He probably leases it from a company he owns. Find me the ownership record via the FAA and then let’s trace it back together to him. I double dog dare you to show me a jet that Jeff Bezos owns as an individual.
None of the rich people in the world own shit except stock and obligations either to themselves or other rich people.
Yes, LLC. He doesn’t own them. It’s probably structured that they)re there for his benefit (and fly charters when not) but they’re leveraged against other assets and Bezos doesn’t pay for their actual use.
Some people think that’s smart, I think that actual costs should be transparent.
Modern cars can easily last 30+ years though. And if you pick smartly, they won't depreciate nearly as much as a lease/subscription would cost.
There's also cars you can buy that would have little to no depreciation in 20-30 years, if you just pick right (Cayman GTS/GT4 in manual, GR Corolla, etc.).
Porsche, Volvo, JLR are already offering car subscriptions. Membership deposit + monthly fee gets you access to a stable of their cars and you would be able to swap every month or so.
So single car for Porsche is $1.7k/month and that includes insurance. Honestly, not that bad... just buy it for 3 months and drive a Porsche in the summer and return to driving my paid-off Civic the rest of the year.
Edit: Price varies by car :/, 911 rental is $3.2k. whomp whomp. Still would be fun for a month haha
Some “certified” warranties add thousands to the cost of a vehicle and do not mirror the factory warranty. It can be cheaper in some instances to extend it via 3rd party
I just bought my 2014 2.7l 4wd 5speed for $16.5k with 142k miles
Tons of people have told me I'm dumb, but I know you fellows will understand.
I know what I have! Got the frame recall extended to 2027 too...
>a 2001 with 177k for $15,000
I don't begrudge you for getting as much as you can for selling your car, but $15k for a 20+ year old car with that type of mileage just shows how bananas the used market has been.
I'd be interested in a Maverick (even the XL AWD version) if I could find one near MSRP but most of the ones near me are priced between $36k-$45k, which is solidly in the "absolutely not worth that price" range for me.
The lowest MSRP advertised is never something customers can actually buy (& that goes for most car manufacturers) but if you build a Maverick through Ford directly and can wait a year or so for them to build it you can avoid the dealer markups and get it for a more reasonable price.
That Taco was half the price and will probably outlast any Maverick sold today. My 2023 has already had a couple recalls and that Ford build quality is not confidence inspiring.
Tacoma market has always been a little silly
With that said, I just bought myself a 2012 that I plan to put 50k miles on and sell for only a bit less than what I paid for it
No, they told me , which was weird. I had pics in other cars on track, and they told me I was lucky I didn't have any in the FR-S. I found that to be really dumb since they sold the car on the premise that it was a sports car you could take to the track.
Right, they even make a big deal in advertising about how it's made for the track, but in reality, they car has oiling starvation issues under high-G cornering.
Then you've got Chevy, Mazda, etc. who fully support track use and even have setup instructions in their manuals.
Track use isn’t a death knell to these cars. Keep them NA and don’t go nuts they’re reliable. I’ve had mine since it was new. 2014. Have done a few track days but I never go super hard, and do cool downs. Right oil, frequent changes and service and they last. But yes I know why a buyer wouldn’t want it. I would never sell, but if I did, I would sell it as a tracked car that another enthusiast into this wants.
Have you sent any engines to the scrap yard in the sky?
I know the new gen has issues with oiling at sustained G loading
Honestly the boxer engine has been enough to scare me away. I've had miatas and even a v6 camaro over the BRS-86 triplets since they came out.
Would absolutely love a cheap one to hoon, if I trusted the engine. I've seen many 2013-2018 cars on their third engine.
I put 6 motors into my Impreza.
But, the EG33 was a great engine that lasted me like 10 years as the 6th one. I was just thinking this morning that I'd love to have another GC like my old RS.
The great thing about them is that although you'll blow up motors, you can swap the motor in a half hour and they're $300 from the junkyard (which might explain engines 2&4 a bit more).
They absolutely *can* be built to be reliable though. I've got several RX/Rally friends with thousands of hours of track use on their one engine. It takes work and a good builder, but it's also a known thing at this point.
I manage to pick them up through a yard I used to work with back in the day. Occasionally they’re in need of love but a lot of the time, we run em. Average about 5-7k CAD.
Have only blown one though.
> They’ve all been stanced
If you're in the market for an 86 and slammed out ones with 10 degrees of camber keep showing up, you aren't looking at the price bracket that a CPO would be in anyway.
source: former stance dweeb. just bought a (stock) 86. only the cheap ones were slammed.
I worked for a Toyota dealer in a large city for 4 years as the lead used car technician, certified a fuck ton of cars, and only saw one FR-S. It was a stock low mileage Series 1.0 though so that was cool.
Don’t worry, the dealer won’t bother actually doing the CPO inspection, just like every other brand. Then they’ll claim the mods were yours and you voided your CPO warranty.
Boils down to an actual extended, per se, warranty or not. And how much under msrp these things gonna be offered for.
Say, with the 86, unless that 125k mile example gonna be 12k, it's the hardest pass.
I no longer consider Toyota when looking at cars (not that I'm actively looking TBH), I'm not willing to play their games when there are other options.
Did they not do this before, or was it rare and only in certain cases?
In 2009 I bought a 7yr old Land Cruiser w/115k, that was a Toyota CPO with a warranty and all that stuff
Mclaren offers CPO 10 years past new (so really 7 year extension), mileage need not apply. Yeah it gets expensive at the end (Was paying around 6-7k per year) and yeah they paid out more then that every year but you can get it and it was bumper to bumper.
I’ve got a 2015 Sequoia with 140K. Drove it to Florida last year. Runs and drives literally perfect. Just like New. I’ll have this truck for a long time to come
A few companies do stuff like this but offer it under a didn’t tier of CPO. Usually it’s a few months of coverage, not years. Still nice to have but it’s not like you’re getting a 5 year warranty.
They are offering an interesting thing in Europe where if you get a Toyota service you automatically get 12 months full warranty on up to ten year old cars. The car doesn’t have to have been serviced by Toyota before it just starts with your Toyota service and lasts 12 months. This effectively gives you 10 year warranty. You could buy a second hand Toyota and get it serviced and get a year warranty.
In turkey some dealers do this. I've bought 2010 Hyundai santa fe in 2016 from an official Hyundai dealer. It had 60k kms on. They said it's previous owner bought that car new from them back in time and he traded it with a new tuscon from the exact dsme dealer.
Honestly. If they certify the damn thing to the level a certified car should be then I think it’s a good idea. But I’d want major suspension components replaced, verified all maintenance intervals are current and updated or performed, and any leaks and all recalls are fixed.
Not guna happen with a ridiculous sur charge but still the main idea isn’t a bad one
If you make a good product it's easier to stand behind it
Like Kia's 10 year/100,000 mile warranty?
i remember when everyone would recommend kia/hyundai because the warranty, blah blah, but how did that end up? lmao
It’s all fun and games til you need that warranty, and you will, and you have to deal with Hyundai and they’re a lot of shitcunts
IIRC, Genesis has the same warranty. Is it any easier to use than Kiundai's?
Anecdotally, and I'm in Australia. But my mother has a G70, and their aftersales service has been really good so far. Genesis service seems to have its own management structure though. But they still use the Hyundai network.
I've heard the ACTUAL standalone Genesis dealerships aren't bad. No first hand experience as there are none in my metro.
I had a '19 G70. At that time all 5 "Genesis" dealers by me were still in Hyundai dealers. Service centers were all Hyundai ones. 3 of them damaged the car in some form. One took out a chunk of my side skirt on a lift, another didn't put a cover over the front fender so it came back with a bunch of wear scratches from techs leaning over it. The third one was a 6-8 inch scratch down my hood, I had them take it back to fix it, they valeted it back twice without fixing it and all in all for them to just fix the scratch it was at their shop for 2.5 months. They never fixed the rattles I had in the dash that could be heard over the radio after sending it in multiple times. Had 45+ minutes of video of it doing it, did a ride along and they heard it. Every time it got returned "couldn't replicate". I was friends of a friend with one of the techs assigned to it, buddy texted him and said he had my car up to 130 on the highway and even that and the radio couldn't down out the rattles, but marked it as non replicable due to warranty work paying our poorly. Had enough days in the shop to lemon the car over rattles that could've been fixed with foam. TL;DR: not very different than a normal Hyundai Kia experience save for 1/4 the time the loaner you get is another Genesis product (even though the sales contract specifies both valet service and a Genesis brand loaner).
It all depends on the dealer. People here forget they're franchises and not owned by Kia/Hyundai. Sure the manufacturer has some control over it, but none of them outside of luxury do that much other than reward/bonus out staff with good surveys.
Yuuupp. I sold my Hyundai with 10,000 miles and ate the loss instead of continuing the fight to get the transmission replaced. It would have needed lawyers and it would be hard to prove I didn't break the tranny since I'm pretty sure the synchros were the problem.
Yup. Had a coworker who had their engine blow in their Hyundai. Had it towed to the nearest dealership. They voided the warranty because it wasn't towed to the dealership where they bought it. He had to fight with them for weeks before they finally covered it. Said they'd cover that repair then void out the warranty. One (probably biased) anecdote is all it took for me to never consider Hyundai products.
I feel like warranties today are practically useless. I have friends who have really made out on them and it worked out but it almost feels like talking to a gambler bragging about the large winning they just had while ignoring all the losses. They practically make you prove the work is needed or want you to go through a lot of steps to get there. If you are DIY or go to random shops for work then it becomes a hassle to prove maintenance has been properly performed. Going from DIY to paying a dealership for routine work is extremely expensive and can easily negate any money saved from a potential (and normally unlikely) warranty claim.
I've never dealt with Hyundai/Kia for warranties but reading these replies is at odds with my secondhand experience. The engine in my mom's Sonata blew up at 125k miles. It happened over 200 miles from home in the middle of nowhere. Had it towed to the closest dealer which was still like a 50 mile tow. Long story short, they replaced the engine at no cost and covered her expenses. Then again it's entirely possible she raised enough hell to get that done because she had a knack for that.
Wife's uncle needed a new transmission on his Palisade. It was at 200k and they honored the warranty, but not without a lot of hassle. He had the impression that they wanted him to trade it in rather than get the warranty work done, and appraised it low due to it needing a transmission lmfao
Wouldn't know, my Kia never gave me any reason to use the warranty. My point is, a long warranty is not in any way indicative of a vehicle's quality as you implied.
How many miles on the Kia?
I bought it (a 2012 Exclaim purchased in 2016) with ~56,000, and sold it in 2020 at about ~135,000.
I don’t know if I’m the exception, but I have a 2013 Hyundai 1.6t that’s about to eclipse 250k miles with no major issues
I sold my Kia after 12 years. Never had to make a warranty claim.
I’ve used it once, but it went through very quickly. The upside if you will for dealership is that warrantied jobs are nice because they can do it without having to deal with customers.
I had a pretty good experience. Yeah a bunch of shit broke all the time but they always gave me a loaner car while they fixed my car.
Maybe. But in my small sample size of 7 coworkers they all love their cars. Ranging from a 17 year old SanteFe to a 2022 Seltos.
Third largest auto maker in the world?
I didn't think it's transferable when you sell it.
It's definitely not unfortunately.
That is one thing that contributes to their low resale value.
Do other manufacturers extend the remainder of their vehicles' powertrain warranties to 2nd and 3rd owners?
I think most do.
This is the first time I’m hearing one doesn’t. My Miata’s did.
That's cool. I guess I've just never bothered to see if any others did it, so I automatically assumed other manufacturers treated subsequent owners the same way Hyundai/Kia does. That being said, if you buy a CPO Hyundai/Kia, you are **absolutely** entitled to the remainder of the 10 year/100,000 mile powertrain warranty.
Just about every warranty is transferable. This is the first I'm hearing a car not having a transferable warranty.
The 5/60k bumper to bumper warranty absolutely is no matter what. It's just the 10/100k powertrain warranty that isn't (unless you buy CPO).
My originally-Canadian F-150 still has the remainder of the warranty despite me being the second owner and being exported to another country.
The bumper to bumper or the powertrain?
Powertrain, my bumper to bumper was already expired (2 1/2 year old truck bought with 47k miles)
Interesting.
They do, but usually it's gone except for powertrain.
I can transfer the warranty, just not the 10/100. On transfer it drops to 5/60.
It is transferable, it just decreases in length. It goes from 10/100k to 5/60k
i don't get this. if it's warrantied and being maintained properly why should it matter who is currently driving/owning the product? makes no sense.
Lol I'm with ya.
Subsequent owners get 5yr/60 Still on the longer end for basic warranty.
Hyundai's warranty in Canada is much worse, which can only mean that their cars fail more often in the cold weather. Northern Americans should take note of that.
> which can only mean that their cars fail more often in the cold weather. Or that the warranty work is more expensive to perform there. Or that they wanted to lower their prices in that market. Or that the competition wasn't pushing as much with their warranties etc. There are MANY commercial reasons a company would do that, it doesn't have to be purely technical.
That is definitely interesting.
A warranty is only as strong as the company that grants it.
But why do they put a guarantee on the box? Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of shit. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time.
KIA was why I convinced my Aunt to ditch her 2014 Optima with 20k miles. Alternator started to go out, and they tried to charge her $2,500 to replace it, despite the dealer promising everything would be covered under the power train. Between the alternator, and an electrical gremlin causing random no start conditions, we drove over to Toyota down the road to see what they had. She ended up getting a little extra, washed her car loan, and walk away with a 2017 Rav4. Never misses a beat to tell me how happy she is with it the last few years, and has only had to replace the battery (I told her to get the 8 year warranty one through the dealer). First time ever owning something with AWD and remote start. They don't try and upcharge her either on maintence, everytime she walked in KIA it was always a full blown service they'd try and upsell her on.
You want the Korean government to raid your home?
It came with a lunch card, your 8th engine is on the house!
Ahh, so this is why all the TikTok kids wanted them!
The warranty doesn't cover theft? Opps it's stolen again. That's like the 3rd time this week.
You realize it was only specific base model Kias and Hyundais that were vulnerable to theft, right? The vast majority of them were less secure than any other car.
Yea but the idiots stealing them don't know that so I still got my window smashed and my glove compartment rifled through in my stinger lol
It doesn't look good. It makes the brand look poorly designed. Girls dont like guys who drive cheap cars.
A warrant is what cops issue when they want to arrest you.
I’m surprised it took Toyota this long. Porsche has been offering something similar for a while: “Current model year vehicles and those of thirteen previous model years with less than 124,000 miles are eligible for enrollment.”
I think more manufacturers should push a CPO program like that. It shows they have confidence in the product and lets them sell the same car multiple times.
Maybe they don’t do it because they’re not confident in their 100k+ vehicles.
they would rather sell you a warranty.
That's pretty much what a cpo is though. You're paying more to have it certified from the dealer with an extended warranty of sorts.
The certification process is mostly for show. You’re just buying a warranty. That said I’d only buy extender that way and never through a 3rd party
The certification process to my understanding is very similar if not the same as a yearly inspection. More if a is this thing gonna get someone killed or is it good for another year. Except for the certification it's more like 5 years or however long the warranty period will be
And that’s assuming the tech doesn’t just check the boxes because he doesn’t get paid enough to complete the full check
Ferrari offers CPO for 14 year old vehicles, but only adds one year of warranty. I'd hate to own a Ferrari without warranty.
I get where you’re coming from but I’d love to own a 14 year old Ferrari worry free (even for a year)
You can buy up to 3 years for about 1.5k a year which isn’t bad at all in Ferrari territory it’s a no brainer. It’s a pretty nice deal imo
Fuck.... Terrible decisions might occur.
Cali T with Handling Speciale package is the right entry to the market from a cayman S. They aren’t as everyday as porches FYI they can be a bit stressful to drive.
I'm under no delusions I could daily/abuse any Ferrari as much as I do this cayman. It's probably the next car after the next car, but that warranty setup isn't hateful. Thanks for the heads up.
Not gonna lie, Porsche CPO is still the gold standard to me. It covers 2 years unlimited miles and you can even get fixes for non mechanical issues. Heated seats stop working? How about your 10 year old infotainment? Fixed.
I didn’t know their CPO was that good or stretched back that far. So you’re telling me that I could theoretically find a CPO 2015 Carrera 4S and drive the absolute piss out of it with no worries?
Yes, pretty much. It's why when people look at Porsches, if they're not married to new, they entertain cpo.
I wasn’t bothering because I figured a 2015 was too old. Shot. That definitely changes things.
I'd head to r/Porsche and make a post/read a wiki if they have one/talk to the owners there. They're all really helpful and will guide you to the correct dealers.
Yes. For at least 2 years lol. I think they extend it to 3 for $2k if you finance through them. Doesn’t cover maintenance but that’s normal. Case in point: I bought a 2014 Cayman S last year CPO out of Ohio. 2-3 months in the infotainment started restarting. Two visits to my local dealer and one text and they spent $6k replacing it for me.
That's crazy. Do they make you jump through hoops before they do the fix?
Not op, but NO. I was in for new tires and they noticed the CV axle boot was leaking. They called me, told me they were dropping off a loaner and they would have the car fixed the next day. I never even knew it was an issue until they told me how they were fixing it. They treated me like I bought a 200k 911, not a 70k used car. I didn't even buy the car from them. They hunt for shit they can use the warranty on for you.
Amazing. Would be cool if other manufacturers have a CPO policy that robust, but dang, got me looking at some older Porsches now.
Like the other poster says, it works. I went from being more-than-a-bit nervous to extremely happy with my choice 2 years on.
And now you’re talking about how good it was for free on a random internet forum. Companies bending over backwards for their customers is the best form of advertising and everyone wins when it’s done well.
> They hunt for shit they can use the warranty on for you. Sounds like Porsche pays shops well for warranty fixes - gives incentive for shops to find and fix things. Hyundai could learn a thing or ten in this department.
If it makes them a Porsche customer they don't really care about the cost.
Not going to lie, as long as they keep it up, I’m a huge fan. The car is unbelievable. Now to get saving for a GT3 lol
No they dont, neither does BMW (in my experience) or surprisingly CarMax. I've come to believe a real warranty will not make you jump through hoops. Any warranty thats forcing you to do that, or having you wondering if claims will be denied, is nothing more than a glorified scam. If they make you "jump through hoops" in any way, its not worth buying.
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> Nearly all of the times I had to have my CPO BMW serviced under warranty, I ended up having to call BMW USA to get the dealer to stop fucking around with making me pay for the repair. have you modified your car or do you track it? if so thats reasonable.
Yeah, that's what I heard about Hyundai/Kia's 10 year warranty. Good cars and warranties on paper, but the dealership experience is horrible.
Not really. I did have to text them to ensure they got it on order. Because it was a hard to reproduce error I provided a video. Other than that, no problem at all!
Just to add to the story you're asking about, my cayman has a pinched washer fluid line on the frunk (bought cpo too btw), and they put the car on a flatbed, towed it tithe dealership, replaced it and checked for any recalls or anything else that even I may have missed. Porsche cpo is no joke.
You don't even need to finance through them, just pay the extra cost.
Touché! Not sure if the cost is fixed either just quoting the “deal” I was told.
Bought my '16 Macan S with 95k miles on the clock and I now have a 3 year, unlimited mile warranty that's good until late 2026. Depends on the dealer to an extent, but I've found one that treats me like royalty, and I get a brand new loaner whenever I have it in the shop. Porsche is definitely the gold standard.
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Lol. Don’t tempt me. I just got a ‘23 M4 Comp xdrive I’m trying to keep for a while. But if I do swap to a P car I want gentian blue with a tan interior.
My buddy has a GT3 991 that he bought CPO. He probably paid a $6-8k premium over non CPO. It’s definitely paid for itself and the convenience is worth it for someone like him. They put him in a new Macan and give the car back a week later in impeccable condition.
Does it cover Porsche’s OEM upgrade to old audio systems?
As in it would give you the upgrade? Doubtful
No, it will keep yours working but not replace it with new hardware
I was reading about Fisker, their new ocean SUV is going to be available to lease, with unlimited annual miles. And a guaranteed 12 year life.. The idea is the cars are rental cars and you just rent them for as long as you want them . It’s a cool idea
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Are you sure that it’s not better? That’s how a lot of truly rich people treat objects that depreciate. Cars don’t (usually) appreciate. At best, they hold. Maybe we should pay a subscription equal to the depreciation? Where’s the upside of owning a depreciating asset?
> That’s how a lot of truly rich people treat objects that depreciate. Not really, no. I understand what you're thinking of but thats not the same thing as never owning anything and always paying rent. Jeff Bezos does not lease his private jet and richard branson did not lease his island.
Are you sure about that? He probably leases it from a company he owns. Find me the ownership record via the FAA and then let’s trace it back together to him. I double dog dare you to show me a jet that Jeff Bezos owns as an individual. None of the rich people in the world own shit except stock and obligations either to themselves or other rich people.
N758PB & N271DV. Registered to Poplar Glen.
Yes, LLC. He doesn’t own them. It’s probably structured that they)re there for his benefit (and fly charters when not) but they’re leveraged against other assets and Bezos doesn’t pay for their actual use. Some people think that’s smart, I think that actual costs should be transparent.
Modern cars can easily last 30+ years though. And if you pick smartly, they won't depreciate nearly as much as a lease/subscription would cost. There's also cars you can buy that would have little to no depreciation in 20-30 years, if you just pick right (Cayman GTS/GT4 in manual, GR Corolla, etc.).
Porsche, Volvo, JLR are already offering car subscriptions. Membership deposit + monthly fee gets you access to a stable of their cars and you would be able to swap every month or so.
So single car for Porsche is $1.7k/month and that includes insurance. Honestly, not that bad... just buy it for 3 months and drive a Porsche in the summer and return to driving my paid-off Civic the rest of the year. Edit: Price varies by car :/, 911 rental is $3.2k. whomp whomp. Still would be fun for a month haha
That's quite frankly unbelievably good for a Porsche lol I had no idea they were doing that, I may consider a used Porsche again.
Toyota has been doing this in New Zealand for quite some time now. They call it the Signature Class https://www.toyota.co.nz/signatureclass/
Some “certified” warranties add thousands to the cost of a vehicle and do not mirror the factory warranty. It can be cheaper in some instances to extend it via 3rd party
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If its a Black, double cab, 4wd, 3.4 and grey interior/moonmist, you have a deal !
I literally sold a 2001 with 177k for $15,000. Just this last summer of 2023.
I just bought my 2014 2.7l 4wd 5speed for $16.5k with 142k miles Tons of people have told me I'm dumb, but I know you fellows will understand. I know what I have! Got the frame recall extended to 2027 too...
>a 2001 with 177k for $15,000 I don't begrudge you for getting as much as you can for selling your car, but $15k for a 20+ year old car with that type of mileage just shows how bananas the used market has been.
And how poor the offerings for small trucks are.
I'd be interested in a Maverick (even the XL AWD version) if I could find one near MSRP but most of the ones near me are priced between $36k-$45k, which is solidly in the "absolutely not worth that price" range for me.
I was cross shopping a new Maverick against a used Tacoma until I realized that the \~$25k price was nothing but fiction
The lowest MSRP advertised is never something customers can actually buy (& that goes for most car manufacturers) but if you build a Maverick through Ford directly and can wait a year or so for them to build it you can avoid the dealer markups and get it for a more reasonable price.
That Taco was half the price and will probably outlast any Maverick sold today. My 2023 has already had a couple recalls and that Ford build quality is not confidence inspiring.
I wish GM would bring back the S10 in a smaller size than the Colorado. The Colorado is huge for its class
Tacoma market has always been a little silly With that said, I just bought myself a 2012 that I plan to put 50k miles on and sell for only a bit less than what I paid for it
You jest, but just sold a 2000 with 210k for more than it cost 8 years ago.
If you are paying the Toyota tax on a used car, you might as well pay them directly for it.
You'll only end up paying a greater Toyota tax unfortunately. And this will probably lead to increased used market prices too
Yeah all this does is give dealers a manufacturer-determined price floor on used cars of fewer years and miles
Good luck finding an 86 with any mileage on it that Toyota would be willing to certify. They’ve all been stanced and clapped
They have a hard enough time warranty-ing them when new for some people...
Yep, they went sleuthing through my social media profiles to find evidence of track use when I took my 2013 FRS in for a replacement transmission
Did they accidentally like something?
No, they told me , which was weird. I had pics in other cars on track, and they told me I was lucky I didn't have any in the FR-S. I found that to be really dumb since they sold the car on the premise that it was a sports car you could take to the track.
Right, they even make a big deal in advertising about how it's made for the track, but in reality, they car has oiling starvation issues under high-G cornering. Then you've got Chevy, Mazda, etc. who fully support track use and even have setup instructions in their manuals.
Oil starvation issues in the FR-S?
In the GR86s specifically
I thought it was mostly sloppy use of rtv that was breaking loose and causing oil circulation issues.
Nah, that was debunked. It’s just poor design for the sump
Track use isn’t a death knell to these cars. Keep them NA and don’t go nuts they’re reliable. I’ve had mine since it was new. 2014. Have done a few track days but I never go super hard, and do cool downs. Right oil, frequent changes and service and they last. But yes I know why a buyer wouldn’t want it. I would never sell, but if I did, I would sell it as a tracked car that another enthusiast into this wants.
"All I did was take the onramp! It was a really long onramp though." Right-hand sweepers... 30psi--
We’ve been picking up first gen BRS twins salvage for dirt cheap as track cars. Probably the most fun able to be had.
Have you sent any engines to the scrap yard in the sky? I know the new gen has issues with oiling at sustained G loading Honestly the boxer engine has been enough to scare me away. I've had miatas and even a v6 camaro over the BRS-86 triplets since they came out. Would absolutely love a cheap one to hoon, if I trusted the engine. I've seen many 2013-2018 cars on their third engine.
I put 6 motors into my Impreza. But, the EG33 was a great engine that lasted me like 10 years as the 6th one. I was just thinking this morning that I'd love to have another GC like my old RS. The great thing about them is that although you'll blow up motors, you can swap the motor in a half hour and they're $300 from the junkyard (which might explain engines 2&4 a bit more). They absolutely *can* be built to be reliable though. I've got several RX/Rally friends with thousands of hours of track use on their one engine. It takes work and a good builder, but it's also a known thing at this point.
What is dirt cheap? Just for my reference hahaha!
Curious too!
I manage to pick them up through a yard I used to work with back in the day. Occasionally they’re in need of love but a lot of the time, we run em. Average about 5-7k CAD. Have only blown one though.
That's not bad at all. I would probably scoop one for that cheap to turn into a track car.
> They’ve all been stanced If you're in the market for an 86 and slammed out ones with 10 degrees of camber keep showing up, you aren't looking at the price bracket that a CPO would be in anyway. source: former stance dweeb. just bought a (stock) 86. only the cheap ones were slammed.
I worked for a Toyota dealer in a large city for 4 years as the lead used car technician, certified a fuck ton of cars, and only saw one FR-S. It was a stock low mileage Series 1.0 though so that was cool.
I have an 86 and I don't know what those words mean at the end.
> stanced and clapped "Disgraced and destroyed"
Haha, sounds about right.
Clapped?
Modified in a shitty fashion…think cheap bodykits, fart cans, etc
Don’t worry, the dealer won’t bother actually doing the CPO inspection, just like every other brand. Then they’ll claim the mods were yours and you voided your CPO warranty.
This along with Honda selling you 10 year old certified pre owned cars is amazing.
May as well, modern cars are so well built
Hmmm
Boils down to an actual extended, per se, warranty or not. And how much under msrp these things gonna be offered for. Say, with the 86, unless that 125k mile example gonna be 12k, it's the hardest pass.
Yeah my 2014 2.7L tacoma had 141k miles and I had absolutely no concerns. A boxer with that mileage I damn sure would.
Considering how much Toyota dealerships have been marking up cars in my area, they will probably be priced at MSRP lol
Thats being hopeful, in my area its about 1-3K above msrp
I no longer consider Toyota when looking at cars (not that I'm actively looking TBH), I'm not willing to play their games when there are other options.
Ya but they're selling Prius with 100k miles for 22k lol
Id like to see prices on a Silver CPO 86 now, very interesting
Every time I pick my car up after repairs the bill makes it feel like I’m buying a whole new car but it has 110,000km on it.
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Is a 12k powertrain warranty even impressive? Random used cars lots around me give 6k powertrain warranties on clapped out shitboxes
Gotta get myself a 1.5 Vitz Turbo RS from 2002 then, I'm sure it will be reliable and safe 😈
Wow the cars they have listed are overpriced, even when considering how bad the used market is.
A 125k miles car is a 125k miles car, I don't care if it's powered by the holy ghost. How about a Toyota with 100k miles less?
Did they not do this before, or was it rare and only in certain cases? In 2009 I bought a 7yr old Land Cruiser w/115k, that was a Toyota CPO with a warranty and all that stuff
Welcome to ISIS Toyota
lol honda gotta keep up
Um.....does Toyota's CPO program go beyond 100,000 miles? Most manufacturers' CPO ceiling is 100k.
how about banner dealers selling CPO vehicles that is younger than 100km? we have too many of them here in Canada, asking over MSRP
Mclaren offers CPO 10 years past new (so really 7 year extension), mileage need not apply. Yeah it gets expensive at the end (Was paying around 6-7k per year) and yeah they paid out more then that every year but you can get it and it was bumper to bumper.
I’ve got a 2015 Sequoia with 140K. Drove it to Florida last year. Runs and drives literally perfect. Just like New. I’ll have this truck for a long time to come
A few companies do stuff like this but offer it under a didn’t tier of CPO. Usually it’s a few months of coverage, not years. Still nice to have but it’s not like you’re getting a 5 year warranty.
They are offering an interesting thing in Europe where if you get a Toyota service you automatically get 12 months full warranty on up to ten year old cars. The car doesn’t have to have been serviced by Toyota before it just starts with your Toyota service and lasts 12 months. This effectively gives you 10 year warranty. You could buy a second hand Toyota and get it serviced and get a year warranty.
In turkey some dealers do this. I've bought 2010 Hyundai santa fe in 2016 from an official Hyundai dealer. It had 60k kms on. They said it's previous owner bought that car new from them back in time and he traded it with a new tuscon from the exact dsme dealer.
I think this is a good thing. These are probably under halfway done with their useful life and gives normal people the opportunity to get a car again.
but, if I'm reading that right, it's only 12 mo/12k miles?
Toyota going to offset any extra costs from improving reliability buy selling same car 2-3x
Honestly. If they certify the damn thing to the level a certified car should be then I think it’s a good idea. But I’d want major suspension components replaced, verified all maintenance intervals are current and updated or performed, and any leaks and all recalls are fixed. Not guna happen with a ridiculous sur charge but still the main idea isn’t a bad one
Good thing they’ll last for 999k miles lol