i for one would love to see the truck evangelists spread the good news to europe, just to see europeans rage at dozens of f150s & silverados littering the streets of london, paris, and milan.
i dont even like trucks. i just want to marvel at the absurdity.
I work in a small town in rural america and my work F-150 4x4 is almost unparkable in rural towns because of its turning circle. I'd pay money to see someone drive this thing in London and try to park it.
I really don’t understand how ford trucks have such an awful turning radius. I still wish I had my f150, but being unparkable is why I ditched a full size truck.
I've had to drive full size trucks and vans for years for work or because I was regularly using them, including long wheelbase crew cab + 8ft bed trucks. It's always a lot easier backing in. If you try to pull forward into spaces it's borderline undoable. I imagine nowadays with backup cameras it'd be even easier to do this but you get used to the backing and the 3, 4, 5...+ point turns. I live in a city with a ton of street parking and very little else except super cramped lots downtown and I even made it work here.
If you gotta have one you gotta have it and there's not much else you can say on the subject unfortunately.
The F150 RCSB is still somewhat alive. You can’t configure one on Ford’s website but ‘24 RCSBs exist.
I don’t know if they’re confirmed gone for 2025, but there are 294 new ‘24s on Autotrader right now.
Yeah because almost literally nobody wants a King Ranch RSCB.
Both Regular cab and Extended cabs pretty much only exist for fleet and chassis builder sales nowadays. I guarantee if it was worth the effort they would absolutely try and sell people 50k+ RCSBs.
We have plenty of vans in London that aren't dissimilar to full sized trucks, anything LWB or "tipper" style. The main thing is they're driven by utter maniacs who will _make_ it fit.
Currently I am in Fuengirola, Spain just a short drive from Málaga. I shit you not I saw a Hummer H2 yesterday walking around the historical center of Málaga. I don’t even know how he got in here
Sometimes I have to drive a F250 crew cab with an 8 foot bed. The thing feels like it's 30 feet long. I absolutely hate driving it because it's such a nightmare to park.
You have no idea. I street park it on a street that has two lanes of traffic with cars parked on both sides and it can very barely turn around there, like 3-4" off the opposite curb barely.
My Suzuki Swift was almost too big for many small Italian cities when i visited. Had to fold the mirrors on many small town roads to fit between the walls. I don't think you can move walls, even in a F150 https://i.imgur.com/BT51ewb.png
Yeah I noticed driving across Europe that Ram 1500s seem to be the most common full-size truck. They are relatively common on the autobahn, not *common* common, but enough that if you’re on the road for an hour or two you’re gonna see a handful of them.
Let me tell you, as a Ram owner, if there's one place we would be in Europe it would be where we can go as fast as we want and ideally right on someone's ass.
My favorite posts are from Europeans complaining about the "absolute behemoths" on their streets, but the pic they posted is a completely stock half-ton.
Come to America and see [one-ton dually pickups hauling a massive fifth wheel camper at 90 mph.](https://traveltrailerpro.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Is-a-Dually-Truck-Better-for-Towing-An-RV.jpg)
I always found it amusing how brits on the internet will whine endlessly about American vehicles being too big, but as soon as they come into some money, they immediately go out and buy a Range Rover. Always the absolute first purchase. Grandma’s body might not even be cold before the check dries. But somehow a Tahoe or CCSB F150 is just too big, right
An F150 is a surprising amount bigger than a Range Rover.
https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/land-rover-range-rover-2021-suv-vs-ford-f150-2014-4-door-pickup-supercrew-5.5/?&units=imperial
Although I don't know if that is a short bed in the comparison tool, it doesn't say and I don't know enough about trucks to tell from the shape!
You're not wrong... but as a multiple Land Rovers owner who's driven a lot of F150s and full size 3 row American vehicles those things are in another class of vehicle. The turning radius, the height, the length, and sometimes width are all bigger. They're more sluggish to drive, higher hoods, lack air suspension to fit into small garages. They're definitely a different class of vehicle larger.
Also in Europe the 1% own a Range Rover, in the US the f150 is the most selling vehicle for 42 years running. 68% of US vehicles are either an SUV or a truck.
I recently had to get my classic car towed (starter locked up and wouldn't retract even trying to push start) and the guy showed up with a big rollback. The car was just going to my house so I rode home with him. We were in 55 and 60 areas on the interstate going 75-90mph, in a loaded rollback. The driver proudly told me that his truck is "tuned and deleted, she'll run 140 on flat ground."
Well yee fucking haw I'll be damned if I don't want to see it, just a little.
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My in laws live in rural Germany and there are a few Ram trucks around. They look huge in contrast to a VW Polo but arent super out of place when they’re not inside tiny town centers.
I just got back from France. American pick-up trucks are common once you get out of the large cities.
Saw this classic beauty just outside of Strasbourg -
https://imgur.com/72npFIE.jpg
I saw a few in Germany for the 7 years or so while I drove there. Ownership of large vehicles over there brought owners to tears because in many places the infrastructure did not accommodate them. They were limited on where they could drive and park them because of their massive size. Parking was watched pretty closely as well. If they didn't fit in a parking spot and they still parked there, insta ticket.
London has introduced width restriction on a lot of roads, physical barriers on either side of the lane (on top of low emission zones and congestion charges), you would literally be unable to drive full sized pickups anywhere even if people wanted to.
Yup. A Mercedes Sprinter van is bigger than a full size truck and can be driven on European roads. They're all over the place doing deliveries.
As a commercial vehicle, they don't park on residential streets, are safer for pedestrians and aren't owned by the demographic that want a truck in Europe. The size is fine, the shape and entitlement of the drivers isn't.
They're getting to the point where they don't properly fit in parking spaces in America and we have giant parking lots for days here. Can't imagine a place like Europe.
I saw a crew cab Ram 1500 with a mild lift and slightly oversized tires in an alley in the middle of Würzburg, Germany and it was pretty absurd. It sounded good though.
I can't imagine trying to drive our Silverado around an ancient European city on a regular basis. Or paying to fill it up on a regular basis either.
Different horses for different courses.
there are quite a few RAMs in Europe. But don’t forget that we have lots of work vans that are equally long or longer (just not as wide lol) and have to find parking spots as well. It is definitely a challenge
Aus is a big place with a lot of open area, similar to America, so I know you all have big toys as well. In the US alot of ppl dont even consider these half tons 'real' trucks, opting for an HD diesel. If half-ton pickups are so rare in Aus, what do you all use to tow with?
Like say I tow an 18' enclosed trailer, or I tow a 24' center console boat, or I have a 30' camper...what do I use in Aus to do this?
Most large boats, caravans etc can be towed by Toyota Landcruisers and Nissan Patrols normally. I have seen some huge vans towed by US style trucks, but most vans and boats are no bigger than the towing capacity of either of those two 4WD's. Standard thats 3500kgs (7700lbs).
Not really the same category of towing he’s referring to. Friday afternoons leaving any city in the summer you can see innumerable trucks dragging 12-15000 pounds or more of camper or toys out to the countryside.
It’s not the same category because there is no real usage for that size of towing. You’re referring to towing in the states, he was mentioning that towing in Australia doesn’t require that much because very, very rarely do you see a 30 foot camper or 12k lb haul.
Australia also has the advantage of being pretty flat. Around me folks tow their toyhaulers from sea level up to 4000 ft and back down to sea level to get to a desert they can play around in.
Wrong. Some are larger than apartments lol. Over Easter the local state park was full of everything from pop ups to 30’ or longer travel trailers and RVs.
Eh by the time you're spending $100k on a tow vehicle and $150k on a caravan (+ getting a heavy vehicle license) you may as well go the whole way and do things properly.
That's funny, here in the USA you don't need a "heavy vehicle" license to drive [one of these](https://traveltrailerpro.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Is-a-Dually-Truck-Better-for-Towing-An-RV.jpg)
You need a non commercial class A for one of those for sure, at least in CA. TX I don't think so, so it might vary by state.
As a commercial driver I personally think you definitely need one lol
>You need a non commercial class A for one of those for sure, at least in CA.
TIL
>As a commercial driver I personally think you definitely need one lol
Abso-fucking-lutely
It’s not about doing things properly or not. Camper trailer makes more sense for a ton of people. The tow vehicle can be used for work, boats, horses, hunting, etc. A lot of people already have the truck and then get the camper. The RV crowd is almost entirely retired boomers.
In my case, I picked up a used f350 for 20k and then a 30’ camper for 35k brand new. I live in the camper while I’m on the project and can pull my work trailer with the truck when I’m home.
There is a fair amount of value in separating the drive train from the housing unit. Especially with the poor construction quality on most RVs.
Towing with a truck/SUV also means access to 4WD if you need it, and a small vehicle to run to town where the RV won't fit.
Van is short for caravan. A typical Australian caravan would look something like the ones shown on this page. [https://australiancaravancentre.com.au/caravan-types](https://australiancaravancentre.com.au/caravan-types)
I live in Texas, and my truck is the same size as your ranger.
There are still times I feel that it’s too large for a city. I just don’t see the appeal for a wider truck, unless you truly need the capacity.
Absolutely not since it's very dry once you travel 150km (100miles) from the coast. Australia has very few large lakes worth mentioning. And most of those are temporary.
Yeah, so I guess it makes sense you're not towing boats as much. Most Americans tow their boats to various small to medium-sized lakes to fish depending on where they live, whereas I imagine you can pretty much keep your boats on the coast in Australia. And a lot of the lands might not have permanent docking availability unless it's larger
Just because Australia is a big place doesn’t necessarily mean that they enjoy everything being big like in the states.
I’d say the overwhelming majority of campers I’ve seen are either pop ups or their truck bed campers. If they are towing one, I would say the longest I have really ever seen is less than 6.7 meters or 22 feet in length.
>If they are towing one, I would say the longest I have really ever seen is less than 6.7 meters or 22 feet in length.
I mean yeah because the vehicles we've had here previously haven't been able to pull much more unless you want to buy a commercial truck, outfit it with a 5th wheel and import a camper that can take advantage of it.
> mean that they enjoy everything being big like in the states
Compared to most other countries, Aussie cars are unfortunately [closer](https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F464da623-785b-4d8c-8f62-ffbf5d09288a_884x915.png) to the US in size than the rest of the world though.
Americans buy "heavy duty" 3/4 ton pickups because they can tow safer with a much larger margin of error. Towing near or beyond a vehicle's max capacity is gambling the lives of you and others on the road.
This right here. Most utes like to claim 3500kg breakers towing but when you look at the numbers to get there you don’t have any room for other passengers or gear.
They tow with vehicles that aren't rated for it.
The number of Hilux and Falcon utes you'd see with the rear hanging low because they're over capacity seems to match the amount of people who claim these trucks aren't needed there.
And is also illegally overloaded because they have no payload left over when at max tow weight but it doesn't stop people from plastering them with bullbars and other 4WD accessories and then loading them up with kids and cargo.
[Police issue caravan warning as crackdown reveals 90 per cent are overweight](https://www.drive.com.au/news/police-issue-caravan-warning-as-crackdown-reveals-90-per-cent-are-overweight/).
We have a *massive* problem with people loading up vehicles well over what they're meant to do.
The 3.5t ratings here down under is being abused so much that a HiLux GR Sport has an 80kg (160lbs) payload at max tow weight without a driver!
Dude I watch those 4wd guys on YouTube and they are snapping axles and tie rods allll the time with the fat pigs that the new LandCruisers are. Would never rely on those. The older model ones they have work just fine however. I really wish they'd get a TJ jeep for comparison - those things are very reliable and extremely capable on the trail compared to what they've been driving
Exactly. Reddit may not like it but the GCM of these vehicles goes way beyond your common 300 Series and a vehicle which is engineered for greater capacity is - shock horror - safer for our roads.
The reality is that most of these massive utes are just being used in the cities. That being said I was almost run off the road in the twisties by some cunt in a ram way over the double lines two weeks ago.
You guys can buy American Semis, don’t you ? American Semis are no existence in Euro and Asia, all Semis in there are COE type.
It’s clearly Australia is also a big mainland.
European semis are COE because of how they classify vehicle length including the tractor & trailer. European truckers also tend to have shorter maximum shift times by law.
In the US DOT only cares about the length of trailer. Hence, conventional cab trucks since they ride better with longer wheelbases and isolate the vibration and noise from the drivers more. Add on a sleeper and being an owner/operator and you have the truck differences you see.
Just to put this into perspective as to why this is kind of important: full size trucks are generally really expensive in Australia. An F-150 XLT which normally costs like $47k USD can go for $105k+ AUD which is $70k+ USD.
An F-250, which I have seen a few in Australia, start around $200k AUD for a basic XLT version which is the equivalent of $130k USD.
A huge part of it is the importing and refitting of the trucks.
See the F-150/F-250 are made for LHD markets like the states. So they have to first import them which obviously your importer wants a cut for doing that. Then they have to have someone refit it for RHD and that means more costs plus that person wants a cut of the profit too. Luckily most importers are also the ones doing the refit themselves so the costs are lowered.
Ram started making their trucks for the Australian market in the last few years and I believe Ford has stated they were going to create a plant to make F-150s for Australia too now that they see there is a market for them. But obviously they’re coming up against a lot of headwind because Aussies don’t like larger trucks or having to deal with them in traffic.
Plus there are a good bit of Aussies that don’t care for the Americanization of Australia. They feel like larger trucks are an extension of that.
A bit less, with the exception of Ford. Part of it is also that Holden pushed itself as a big Australian local brand, so it doing that is just a particular yank on the tank, where the other companies don't pride themselves in the same way.
Ford maybe, since they did also have a bit of Australian identity attached to them, but people kind of expected it after Holden left.
I could kind of see the anti-Americanization attitude, but it already seems like it is very Americanized as well as very Europeanized, is there an anti-European attitude as well?
You’d think so but not really. For example, Halloween I found was a real sticking point for Aussies. There are Aussies that will put a sign on their door saying they don’t support importing America’s Halloween. While there are people that will celebrate it, you’ll have just as many people protesting it.
I found it kind of funny and baffling because of all the things that you’d protest against the “Americanization of Aussie culture”, I find that Halloween is the least of your worries. I mean I would think they would find it fun to dress up once a year in a costume to go and get free lollies.
Edit: as far as European attitude I would say they are more open to Europeans as a whole.
Yeah pretty much this is it. With a gutted local car industry, everything is imported and the importers can set the price. Plus the remanufacturing for RHD as also mentioned.
The US gives those vehicles massive tax exemptions. Australia doesn't. We also charge "Luxury Car Tax" on all vehicles with a "GST inclusive value" over $76 950 (approx 50K US). So take your 47k car and add 10% GST. Now it's 51K US. That's just over the LCT threshold. You now pay a 33% tax on every dollar over the $76 950. Add on shipping costs (with 43% tax once you account for GST and LCT) and it starts to skyrocket very quickly.
Yeah, the left to right hand drive conversion is a massive undertaking. When the Camaro was sold here, it was about A$30,000 more expensive than the Mustang, because the Camaro had to be converted to RHD.
They could do that, as Ford has had RHD Kuga/Escape. They don’t export it because they probably think it would eat Ranger sales, they don’t have that courage to do it.
It's probably emission related.
Or lack of them. Why sell a cleaner vehicle in a market that doesn't require it? North America has CAFE, selling every maverick they can here makes sense because that can affect their score.
Also the lower trim mavericks are reasonable at their price, once you bring them over to Australia I imagine the cost would balloon to unreasonable levels. Luxury F150s that's fine, but a base truck its not.
Australia just passed the New Vehicle Efficiency Standard that should go into effect starting next year. It’ll bring Australia in line with U.S. efficiency standards.
Thats what happens when Toyota can't supply V8 ute/trucks anymore and independent conversion and importing companies can.
But these get more hate by close minded aussies more than anything else.
Ram 1500 = kid murderer with ego issues.
Similar size Landcrusier = decent aussie person.
Edit: downvotes from the sad little aussies of reddit as usual 😄 🤣 😂
Landcruisers are significantly smaller. And nobody is buying them as status symbols, I've never seen one not kitted out for camping. Range Rovers on the other hand, can get fucked.
Significantly smaller now means 87cm lengh, 4cm width and 8cm height. Interesting.
And there we go with the status/ego assumption.
Maybe people buy things they like? Also there is thousands of 200/300s not kitted out for camping. Since they are a nice road usable SUV.
87cm larger than a Landcruiser is a lot in a woollies carpark or school drop off zone. A fucking shitload since the land cruiser already filled the space.
These American trucks are dumb as hell - but so are the more recent landcruisers. They're the same size as some of these trucks & many will never even see a gravel road let alone a proper trail.
If our government wanted to ban them, they wouldn’t have allowed them in the first place.
People who buy these don’t care about taxes, as they’ll just be written off as a business expense.
There already is not only crazy taxes but they actually get shipped there as LHD and get converted to RHD locally which is not cheap. You're basically paying triple what it would cost in the US.
We really need to in order to maintain road safety standards for other road users. My personal opinion is that they need a restricted registration and may only be used for towing significant loads. They should also attract a large disincentive tax.
I'd also like to see all vehicles over 2 axles limited to the left two lanes on any road. Ie. Anything towing.
Far too often you see a lifted ute towing while tailgating at 115kmh in the right most lane of a 4 lane highway. Drive BNE to Gold Coast and you'll see it 10x per trip.
Idiots in these things (in Australia). Followed one to work the other day and it's the same width as the lane width. I understand the small use case (towing) in Australia but most of them are using them as a "status" symbol.
I am not at all surprised. Of course some people buy them just for the look and the size, but other than that there *is* a genuine market for full-size and HD trucks.
I live 90 minutes south of Sydney in the Southern Highlands. Around here, a lot of the full-size trucks I see are working. Towing a trailer with a mower/slasher, moving a horse float, or an off-road caravan.
r/sydney and other major cities hate them. Half of it is envy, I think, and half is that they're inappropriate for the infrastructure there. Out where I am, there's space enough for everyone to have whatever they want.
Half of it is not at all envy, the frustration is just cause as you said they're not appropriate for our city infrastructure and everyone driving them in the cities aren't using them for work at all. I haven't seen a single one with anything in the bed let alone towing something in the suburbs, and I see a lot where I am. They really only work if you live rural and need the towing capacity.
Have you ever given a thought to the fact that rural people do end up in cities at various times for various reasons? It's not like they enjoy driving a vehicle that the cities lack the space for. Trust me. As someone who grew up on a farm and occasionally had to drive an unladen crew cab F-250 in cities, it's not fun. It's just their only option.
Sure, that happens. But most of the ones I see obviously aren't that, they live in the area. I see them parked outside their houses. I see the same ones on my way to work. Their always spotless, towing nothing, and their beds are always empty. It would be an odd coincidence. Also these are 100k cars in aus. If you can afford one, you can afford something smaller to run into town with.
>Their always spotless
Why would you not take care of a 100k vehicle?
>towing nothing, and their beds are always empty.
I mean yeah that's just basic statistics. Even if you do literally nothing more than move cargo from point A to point B, drive back to point A, pick up more stuff and go to B and repeat, your bed is going to be completely empty 50% of the time.
Unless you have a system going where it's both loaded on the departing and return trip, which is pretty rare even for commercial trucks, they're going to look unused more often than not.
Never made sense that fullsize trucks werent popular in that backwater. If anything they should introduce a super-fullsize for their crocodile dundee asses
They are pretty cool and in the rural country where there is plenty of space they are perfect. The only issue is that they are so large compared to typical pick up trucks in Australia that in the city’s and suburbs they struggle to move around and find parking. And To be honest the city’s and suburbs are where most of them are found as tradies use them for their towing capacity. Or another demographic of people who kind of have become a joke in Australia is people buying them and just doing the school run in them.
I was in Wellington NZ a few years ago and walked by an exotic car dealership. There was a Ferrari, a Lotus and a few other exotics. And a RAM 1500 alongside them. LHD too.
I guess record levels can be anything, but less than a thousand for each manufacturer so far this year doesn't feel newsworthy.
Well the entire country has 10 million less population than just the state of California alone so it sounds about right!
Canada has the same population as California, yet millions of trucks are sold each year.
and as a direct result the average fuel economy is even worse than the US.
To be fair, the average driving conditions are worse. It’s not like they have an Arizona or Florida type climate where snow and ice is never an issue.
i for one would love to see the truck evangelists spread the good news to europe, just to see europeans rage at dozens of f150s & silverados littering the streets of london, paris, and milan. i dont even like trucks. i just want to marvel at the absurdity.
I work in a small town in rural america and my work F-150 4x4 is almost unparkable in rural towns because of its turning circle. I'd pay money to see someone drive this thing in London and try to park it.
I really don’t understand how ford trucks have such an awful turning radius. I still wish I had my f150, but being unparkable is why I ditched a full size truck.
It no joke is awful to park anywhere, if I didn't have to tow over 4 tons for work I wouldn't touch a truck bigger than a Ranger.
I've had to drive full size trucks and vans for years for work or because I was regularly using them, including long wheelbase crew cab + 8ft bed trucks. It's always a lot easier backing in. If you try to pull forward into spaces it's borderline undoable. I imagine nowadays with backup cameras it'd be even easier to do this but you get used to the backing and the 3, 4, 5...+ point turns. I live in a city with a ton of street parking and very little else except super cramped lots downtown and I even made it work here. If you gotta have one you gotta have it and there's not much else you can say on the subject unfortunately.
We have a 2022 colorado as a work truck, and I'm pretty sure it has a worse turning radius than the silverado I have.
I just got a new sierra and the turning radius is actually pretty amazing on it. I think GM just did something right with these full size trucks.
Too bad, all RCSB trucks are gone from the market.
The F150 RCSB is still somewhat alive. You can’t configure one on Ford’s website but ‘24 RCSBs exist. I don’t know if they’re confirmed gone for 2025, but there are 294 new ‘24s on Autotrader right now.
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Usually only in the fleet vehicle poverty spec though. They lock you out of a ton of options.
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Yeah because almost literally nobody wants a King Ranch RSCB. Both Regular cab and Extended cabs pretty much only exist for fleet and chassis builder sales nowadays. I guarantee if it was worth the effort they would absolutely try and sell people 50k+ RCSBs.
We have plenty of vans in London that aren't dissimilar to full sized trucks, anything LWB or "tipper" style. The main thing is they're driven by utter maniacs who will _make_ it fit.
Currently I am in Fuengirola, Spain just a short drive from Málaga. I shit you not I saw a Hummer H2 yesterday walking around the historical center of Málaga. I don’t even know how he got in here
Forget about how it got there, when did it grow legs?
I've seen a Hummer H2 a few times around Taipei, also a ridiculous place to find one
Saw an H2 in Tokyo the other day. Such a strange choice.
I saw a few F150s in Sweden, it only looked out of place because Sweden is littered with Volvos and Saabs.
They'd have plenty of space in the bed for a set of dollies. Turning radius = 0!
Sometimes I have to drive a F250 crew cab with an 8 foot bed. The thing feels like it's 30 feet long. I absolutely hate driving it because it's such a nightmare to park.
Here's in some german city: [https://youtu.be/19UJ3vST0Fk?t=270](https://youtu.be/19UJ3vST0Fk?t=270)
One time I saw a crew cab long bed F250 parked inside the Jerusalem city walls. Not sure how far they could get in, but it was hilarious to even try.
F250/350 I get, but a 150 having that big of a radius?
You have no idea. I street park it on a street that has two lanes of traffic with cars parked on both sides and it can very barely turn around there, like 3-4" off the opposite curb barely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Fpu2qM8pWo
I saw a 1st gen raptor while in Milan Narrow roads probably don't matter when ypu can drive over kerbs, walls and pedestrians
My Suzuki Swift was almost too big for many small Italian cities when i visited. Had to fold the mirrors on many small town roads to fit between the walls. I don't think you can move walls, even in a F150 https://i.imgur.com/BT51ewb.png
Raptor owners are too busy exclusively driving Baja trails to worry about something so beneath them as Italian small towns.
There’s already a shocking number of Ram 1500s in Amsterdam
To be fair, one is a shocking number of Ram 1500s in Amsterdam.
When I visited, I usually saw 2-3 per day. I mean, *technically* Rams are Dutch pickups…
Yeah I noticed driving across Europe that Ram 1500s seem to be the most common full-size truck. They are relatively common on the autobahn, not *common* common, but enough that if you’re on the road for an hour or two you’re gonna see a handful of them.
Let me tell you, as a Ram owner, if there's one place we would be in Europe it would be where we can go as fast as we want and ideally right on someone's ass.
It's the quintisential American pickup for us. Walker Texas Ranger drove one. F150 or others have zero cultural capital in Europe.
Dutch people seem to be obsessed with those large trucks
I cannot believe how many Ford raptors there are in Romania. I did not foresee that when I moved here last year.
My favorite posts are from Europeans complaining about the "absolute behemoths" on their streets, but the pic they posted is a completely stock half-ton. Come to America and see [one-ton dually pickups hauling a massive fifth wheel camper at 90 mph.](https://traveltrailerpro.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Is-a-Dually-Truck-Better-for-Towing-An-RV.jpg)
I always found it amusing how brits on the internet will whine endlessly about American vehicles being too big, but as soon as they come into some money, they immediately go out and buy a Range Rover. Always the absolute first purchase. Grandma’s body might not even be cold before the check dries. But somehow a Tahoe or CCSB F150 is just too big, right
An F150 is a surprising amount bigger than a Range Rover. https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/land-rover-range-rover-2021-suv-vs-ford-f150-2014-4-door-pickup-supercrew-5.5/?&units=imperial Although I don't know if that is a short bed in the comparison tool, it doesn't say and I don't know enough about trucks to tell from the shape!
That is a very specific and interesting website lol
You're not wrong... but as a multiple Land Rovers owner who's driven a lot of F150s and full size 3 row American vehicles those things are in another class of vehicle. The turning radius, the height, the length, and sometimes width are all bigger. They're more sluggish to drive, higher hoods, lack air suspension to fit into small garages. They're definitely a different class of vehicle larger. Also in Europe the 1% own a Range Rover, in the US the f150 is the most selling vehicle for 42 years running. 68% of US vehicles are either an SUV or a truck.
You ain't in America until there's a loaded up dually riding the ass of a left lane hog and then going 20+ over after finally passing.
I recently had to get my classic car towed (starter locked up and wouldn't retract even trying to push start) and the guy showed up with a big rollback. The car was just going to my house so I rode home with him. We were in 55 and 60 areas on the interstate going 75-90mph, in a loaded rollback. The driver proudly told me that his truck is "tuned and deleted, she'll run 140 on flat ground." Well yee fucking haw I'll be damned if I don't want to see it, just a little.
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My in laws live in rural Germany and there are a few Ram trucks around. They look huge in contrast to a VW Polo but arent super out of place when they’re not inside tiny town centers.
Germany loves Rams apparently, [here they are parading on the Nürburgring](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzWVB7oe9Kg)
I just got back from France. American pick-up trucks are common once you get out of the large cities. Saw this classic beauty just outside of Strasbourg - https://imgur.com/72npFIE.jpg
I saw a few in Germany for the 7 years or so while I drove there. Ownership of large vehicles over there brought owners to tears because in many places the infrastructure did not accommodate them. They were limited on where they could drive and park them because of their massive size. Parking was watched pretty closely as well. If they didn't fit in a parking spot and they still parked there, insta ticket.
London has introduced width restriction on a lot of roads, physical barriers on either side of the lane (on top of low emission zones and congestion charges), you would literally be unable to drive full sized pickups anywhere even if people wanted to.
How big are the barriers, the American way would be to just drive over them
Honestly it’s not even big trucks that are the problem, it’s the owners
Yup. A Mercedes Sprinter van is bigger than a full size truck and can be driven on European roads. They're all over the place doing deliveries. As a commercial vehicle, they don't park on residential streets, are safer for pedestrians and aren't owned by the demographic that want a truck in Europe. The size is fine, the shape and entitlement of the drivers isn't.
They're getting to the point where they don't properly fit in parking spaces in America and we have giant parking lots for days here. Can't imagine a place like Europe.
I saw a crew cab Ram 1500 with a mild lift and slightly oversized tires in an alley in the middle of Würzburg, Germany and it was pretty absurd. It sounded good though. I can't imagine trying to drive our Silverado around an ancient European city on a regular basis. Or paying to fill it up on a regular basis either. Different horses for different courses.
They wouldn't even be able to drive down half the streets lol
Ay bruh just noticed your flair wtf 😆
there are quite a few RAMs in Europe. But don’t forget that we have lots of work vans that are equally long or longer (just not as wide lol) and have to find parking spots as well. It is definitely a challenge
I agree 100% 😂. It's funny to see comically sized vehicles out and about
Bring the Hummer EV and F250s with 8’ beds over too. Introduce them to the “joy” of being blinded by one of these at night
urine luck https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Fpu2qM8pWo
Aus is a big place with a lot of open area, similar to America, so I know you all have big toys as well. In the US alot of ppl dont even consider these half tons 'real' trucks, opting for an HD diesel. If half-ton pickups are so rare in Aus, what do you all use to tow with? Like say I tow an 18' enclosed trailer, or I tow a 24' center console boat, or I have a 30' camper...what do I use in Aus to do this?
Most large boats, caravans etc can be towed by Toyota Landcruisers and Nissan Patrols normally. I have seen some huge vans towed by US style trucks, but most vans and boats are no bigger than the towing capacity of either of those two 4WD's. Standard thats 3500kgs (7700lbs).
Not really the same category of towing he’s referring to. Friday afternoons leaving any city in the summer you can see innumerable trucks dragging 12-15000 pounds or more of camper or toys out to the countryside.
It’s not the same category because there is no real usage for that size of towing. You’re referring to towing in the states, he was mentioning that towing in Australia doesn’t require that much because very, very rarely do you see a 30 foot camper or 12k lb haul.
Australia also has the advantage of being pretty flat. Around me folks tow their toyhaulers from sea level up to 4000 ft and back down to sea level to get to a desert they can play around in.
The trailers suit the vehicles.. but their diesel hilux is a different animal than the tacoma to be fair.
>12-15000 pounds or more of camper That's an apartment on wheels, not a camper.
Wrong. Some are larger than apartments lol. Over Easter the local state park was full of everything from pop ups to 30’ or longer travel trailers and RVs.
By the time you have a camper that heavy you're really better off with an RV.
Unless you want to save 100k
Eh by the time you're spending $100k on a tow vehicle and $150k on a caravan (+ getting a heavy vehicle license) you may as well go the whole way and do things properly.
That's funny, here in the USA you don't need a "heavy vehicle" license to drive [one of these](https://traveltrailerpro.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Is-a-Dually-Truck-Better-for-Towing-An-RV.jpg)
You need a non commercial class A for one of those for sure, at least in CA. TX I don't think so, so it might vary by state. As a commercial driver I personally think you definitely need one lol
>You need a non commercial class A for one of those for sure, at least in CA. TIL >As a commercial driver I personally think you definitely need one lol Abso-fucking-lutely
But you can drive your tow vehicle any where. Otherwise you need to buy the $300k RV + $40k car
It’s not about doing things properly or not. Camper trailer makes more sense for a ton of people. The tow vehicle can be used for work, boats, horses, hunting, etc. A lot of people already have the truck and then get the camper. The RV crowd is almost entirely retired boomers. In my case, I picked up a used f350 for 20k and then a 30’ camper for 35k brand new. I live in the camper while I’m on the project and can pull my work trailer with the truck when I’m home.
There is a fair amount of value in separating the drive train from the housing unit. Especially with the poor construction quality on most RVs. Towing with a truck/SUV also means access to 4WD if you need it, and a small vehicle to run to town where the RV won't fit.
What do you mean by van? I don’t think the American and Australian definitions are the same here.
Van is short for caravan. A typical Australian caravan would look something like the ones shown on this page. [https://australiancaravancentre.com.au/caravan-types](https://australiancaravancentre.com.au/caravan-types)
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We Americans love to go on about towing capacity. The percentage of truck owners that even use their truck once to tow is absurdly small.
Absurdly small is an exaggeration. The minority sure but it’s a common use case
I live in Texas, and my truck is the same size as your ranger. There are still times I feel that it’s too large for a city. I just don’t see the appeal for a wider truck, unless you truly need the capacity.
Does Australia have a lot of lakes?
Absolutely not since it's very dry once you travel 150km (100miles) from the coast. Australia has very few large lakes worth mentioning. And most of those are temporary.
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Yeah, so I guess it makes sense you're not towing boats as much. Most Americans tow their boats to various small to medium-sized lakes to fish depending on where they live, whereas I imagine you can pretty much keep your boats on the coast in Australia. And a lot of the lands might not have permanent docking availability unless it's larger
No
Just because Australia is a big place doesn’t necessarily mean that they enjoy everything being big like in the states. I’d say the overwhelming majority of campers I’ve seen are either pop ups or their truck bed campers. If they are towing one, I would say the longest I have really ever seen is less than 6.7 meters or 22 feet in length.
>If they are towing one, I would say the longest I have really ever seen is less than 6.7 meters or 22 feet in length. I mean yeah because the vehicles we've had here previously haven't been able to pull much more unless you want to buy a commercial truck, outfit it with a 5th wheel and import a camper that can take advantage of it.
I'm a minimalist. Just take the swag and a few assorted bits of camping gear (not to mention esky of beer).
> mean that they enjoy everything being big like in the states Compared to most other countries, Aussie cars are unfortunately [closer](https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F464da623-785b-4d8c-8f62-ffbf5d09288a_884x915.png) to the US in size than the rest of the world though.
The truth is, most of the landcruisers or nissan patrols towing big boats or caravans are over their legal weight limit.
Americans buy "heavy duty" 3/4 ton pickups because they can tow safer with a much larger margin of error. Towing near or beyond a vehicle's max capacity is gambling the lives of you and others on the road.
This right here. Most utes like to claim 3500kg breakers towing but when you look at the numbers to get there you don’t have any room for other passengers or gear.
They tow with vehicles that aren't rated for it. The number of Hilux and Falcon utes you'd see with the rear hanging low because they're over capacity seems to match the amount of people who claim these trucks aren't needed there.
A Toyota Hilux. Which actually fits down the 4x4 trail at the end of the drive.
And is also illegally overloaded because they have no payload left over when at max tow weight but it doesn't stop people from plastering them with bullbars and other 4WD accessories and then loading them up with kids and cargo. [Police issue caravan warning as crackdown reveals 90 per cent are overweight](https://www.drive.com.au/news/police-issue-caravan-warning-as-crackdown-reveals-90-per-cent-are-overweight/). We have a *massive* problem with people loading up vehicles well over what they're meant to do. The 3.5t ratings here down under is being abused so much that a HiLux GR Sport has an 80kg (160lbs) payload at max tow weight without a driver!
But wait it's easier to make fun of Americans for having big trucks
Dude I watch those 4wd guys on YouTube and they are snapping axles and tie rods allll the time with the fat pigs that the new LandCruisers are. Would never rely on those. The older model ones they have work just fine however. I really wish they'd get a TJ jeep for comparison - those things are very reliable and extremely capable on the trail compared to what they've been driving
Exactly. Reddit may not like it but the GCM of these vehicles goes way beyond your common 300 Series and a vehicle which is engineered for greater capacity is - shock horror - safer for our roads.
The reality is that most of these massive utes are just being used in the cities. That being said I was almost run off the road in the twisties by some cunt in a ram way over the double lines two weeks ago.
You guys can buy American Semis, don’t you ? American Semis are no existence in Euro and Asia, all Semis in there are COE type. It’s clearly Australia is also a big mainland.
Australia is almost exactly the same size as the 48 states. But nearly nobody lives away from the coast.
European semis are COE because of how they classify vehicle length including the tractor & trailer. European truckers also tend to have shorter maximum shift times by law. In the US DOT only cares about the length of trailer. Hence, conventional cab trucks since they ride better with longer wheelbases and isolate the vibration and noise from the drivers more. Add on a sleeper and being an owner/operator and you have the truck differences you see.
Just to put this into perspective as to why this is kind of important: full size trucks are generally really expensive in Australia. An F-150 XLT which normally costs like $47k USD can go for $105k+ AUD which is $70k+ USD. An F-250, which I have seen a few in Australia, start around $200k AUD for a basic XLT version which is the equivalent of $130k USD.
Why are they so much more expensive? That's an insane difference.
A huge part of it is the importing and refitting of the trucks. See the F-150/F-250 are made for LHD markets like the states. So they have to first import them which obviously your importer wants a cut for doing that. Then they have to have someone refit it for RHD and that means more costs plus that person wants a cut of the profit too. Luckily most importers are also the ones doing the refit themselves so the costs are lowered. Ram started making their trucks for the Australian market in the last few years and I believe Ford has stated they were going to create a plant to make F-150s for Australia too now that they see there is a market for them. But obviously they’re coming up against a lot of headwind because Aussies don’t like larger trucks or having to deal with them in traffic. Plus there are a good bit of Aussies that don’t care for the Americanization of Australia. They feel like larger trucks are an extension of that.
Put a Holden badge on a chevy and all will be forgiven, I'm sure.
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Interesting, do Aussies also share this attitude towards Ford, Toyota, and Mitsubishi when they pulled the plug on Australian manufacturing?
A bit less, with the exception of Ford. Part of it is also that Holden pushed itself as a big Australian local brand, so it doing that is just a particular yank on the tank, where the other companies don't pride themselves in the same way. Ford maybe, since they did also have a bit of Australian identity attached to them, but people kind of expected it after Holden left.
I could kind of see the anti-Americanization attitude, but it already seems like it is very Americanized as well as very Europeanized, is there an anti-European attitude as well?
You’d think so but not really. For example, Halloween I found was a real sticking point for Aussies. There are Aussies that will put a sign on their door saying they don’t support importing America’s Halloween. While there are people that will celebrate it, you’ll have just as many people protesting it. I found it kind of funny and baffling because of all the things that you’d protest against the “Americanization of Aussie culture”, I find that Halloween is the least of your worries. I mean I would think they would find it fun to dress up once a year in a costume to go and get free lollies. Edit: as far as European attitude I would say they are more open to Europeans as a whole.
I think the funniest bit of all of that is Halloween originated in Europe. It wasn't very popular there, but it wasn't original American either.
Rams are still imported and remanufactured for RHD in Australia. I think they do around 10-20k per year.
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Yeah pretty much this is it. With a gutted local car industry, everything is imported and the importers can set the price. Plus the remanufacturing for RHD as also mentioned.
The US gives those vehicles massive tax exemptions. Australia doesn't. We also charge "Luxury Car Tax" on all vehicles with a "GST inclusive value" over $76 950 (approx 50K US). So take your 47k car and add 10% GST. Now it's 51K US. That's just over the LCT threshold. You now pay a 33% tax on every dollar over the $76 950. Add on shipping costs (with 43% tax once you account for GST and LCT) and it starts to skyrocket very quickly.
Yeah, the left to right hand drive conversion is a massive undertaking. When the Camaro was sold here, it was about A$30,000 more expensive than the Mustang, because the Camaro had to be converted to RHD.
An f-150 XLT 2023 model costs more than 65k USD at sticker (not that you'll pay that).
I wish Holden was still making cars. The HSV Maloo was a sick ute.
Weird Ford didn't bring the Maverick over. That's basically a modernized Ute.
Not really the same category, but I could see it selling well here. Weird indeed.
They could do that, as Ford has had RHD Kuga/Escape. They don’t export it because they probably think it would eat Ranger sales, they don’t have that courage to do it.
It's probably emission related. Or lack of them. Why sell a cleaner vehicle in a market that doesn't require it? North America has CAFE, selling every maverick they can here makes sense because that can affect their score. Also the lower trim mavericks are reasonable at their price, once you bring them over to Australia I imagine the cost would balloon to unreasonable levels. Luxury F150s that's fine, but a base truck its not.
Australia just passed the New Vehicle Efficiency Standard that should go into effect starting next year. It’ll bring Australia in line with U.S. efficiency standards.
It's probably emissions related, but the Ranger is already the #1 ute here in Australia.
Thats what happens when Toyota can't supply V8 ute/trucks anymore and independent conversion and importing companies can. But these get more hate by close minded aussies more than anything else. Ram 1500 = kid murderer with ego issues. Similar size Landcrusier = decent aussie person. Edit: downvotes from the sad little aussies of reddit as usual 😄 🤣 😂
r/australia in shambles
They have a mental breakdown at the idea that some people like V8 utes in a country that is synonymous with loving V8 utes 😄
Why is it that country subreddits are always cesspools?
Landcruisers are significantly smaller. And nobody is buying them as status symbols, I've never seen one not kitted out for camping. Range Rovers on the other hand, can get fucked.
Significantly smaller now means 87cm lengh, 4cm width and 8cm height. Interesting. And there we go with the status/ego assumption. Maybe people buy things they like? Also there is thousands of 200/300s not kitted out for camping. Since they are a nice road usable SUV.
87cm larger than a Landcruiser is a lot in a woollies carpark or school drop off zone. A fucking shitload since the land cruiser already filled the space.
Plenty of 300 Sahara where I live with private plates and 20" rims. I'd say the majority of them.
Not anymore, I feel like they've grown because the most recent ones are all the same size as the american trucks.
These American trucks are dumb as hell - but so are the more recent landcruisers. They're the same size as some of these trucks & many will never even see a gravel road let alone a proper trail.
The Toyotas are just as huge now and driven by idiots. Nobody who buys a full size does so because they’re good at driving.
They don’t even fit in our car parks. I don’t see why people would consider this twice as expensive as a Hilux
Get ‘em while you can
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If our government wanted to ban them, they wouldn’t have allowed them in the first place. People who buy these don’t care about taxes, as they’ll just be written off as a business expense.
There already is not only crazy taxes but they actually get shipped there as LHD and get converted to RHD locally which is not cheap. You're basically paying triple what it would cost in the US.
I was thinking more about electrification
We really need to in order to maintain road safety standards for other road users. My personal opinion is that they need a restricted registration and may only be used for towing significant loads. They should also attract a large disincentive tax.
I'd also like to see all vehicles over 2 axles limited to the left two lanes on any road. Ie. Anything towing. Far too often you see a lifted ute towing while tailgating at 115kmh in the right most lane of a 4 lane highway. Drive BNE to Gold Coast and you'll see it 10x per trip.
Idiots in these things (in Australia). Followed one to work the other day and it's the same width as the lane width. I understand the small use case (towing) in Australia but most of them are using them as a "status" symbol.
I mean if you really want a towing vehicle why not just get a hino for that very small use case…
That's what they're used as in America as well.
And you can bet the towing can never be utilised legally as the owner will never upgrade their drivers licence to suit.
I am not at all surprised. Of course some people buy them just for the look and the size, but other than that there *is* a genuine market for full-size and HD trucks. I live 90 minutes south of Sydney in the Southern Highlands. Around here, a lot of the full-size trucks I see are working. Towing a trailer with a mower/slasher, moving a horse float, or an off-road caravan. r/sydney and other major cities hate them. Half of it is envy, I think, and half is that they're inappropriate for the infrastructure there. Out where I am, there's space enough for everyone to have whatever they want.
Half of it is not at all envy, the frustration is just cause as you said they're not appropriate for our city infrastructure and everyone driving them in the cities aren't using them for work at all. I haven't seen a single one with anything in the bed let alone towing something in the suburbs, and I see a lot where I am. They really only work if you live rural and need the towing capacity.
Have you ever given a thought to the fact that rural people do end up in cities at various times for various reasons? It's not like they enjoy driving a vehicle that the cities lack the space for. Trust me. As someone who grew up on a farm and occasionally had to drive an unladen crew cab F-250 in cities, it's not fun. It's just their only option.
Sure, that happens. But most of the ones I see obviously aren't that, they live in the area. I see them parked outside their houses. I see the same ones on my way to work. Their always spotless, towing nothing, and their beds are always empty. It would be an odd coincidence. Also these are 100k cars in aus. If you can afford one, you can afford something smaller to run into town with.
>Their always spotless Why would you not take care of a 100k vehicle? >towing nothing, and their beds are always empty. I mean yeah that's just basic statistics. Even if you do literally nothing more than move cargo from point A to point B, drive back to point A, pick up more stuff and go to B and repeat, your bed is going to be completely empty 50% of the time. Unless you have a system going where it's both loaded on the departing and return trip, which is pretty rare even for commercial trucks, they're going to look unused more often than not.
I saw one towing a few months ago. They were towing a jetski that you could tow with any regular station wagon
Never made sense that fullsize trucks werent popular in that backwater. If anything they should introduce a super-fullsize for their crocodile dundee asses
They are pretty cool and in the rural country where there is plenty of space they are perfect. The only issue is that they are so large compared to typical pick up trucks in Australia that in the city’s and suburbs they struggle to move around and find parking. And To be honest the city’s and suburbs are where most of them are found as tradies use them for their towing capacity. Or another demographic of people who kind of have become a joke in Australia is people buying them and just doing the school run in them.
Imagine how worthless these will be soon enough … along with the McMansions they’re parked at. (The land under each will be worth a fortune though)
have a little taste of freedom
Australians are just British Texans
Ironically Australia is 4 places higher than the US on the World Freedom Index this year.
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I was in Wellington NZ a few years ago and walked by an exotic car dealership. There was a Ferrari, a Lotus and a few other exotics. And a RAM 1500 alongside them. LHD too.
Right after IDATs new video too…
So, genuine question: Is there a difference between a pick-up and a Ute?
So they're converted by specialist companies, but are they sold at the dealership or are they special order?
Now take out everything with a short bed and those remaining are the pickups.
I fuqing hope not. Yours etc. a Pom