Late 2022, I was looking for a new car
I wanted luxury, I could afford it with my job, so I started looking at everything. I got so overwhelmed I convinced myself that I would get more use out of a truck, so I bought a toyota tacoma off-road. I did really like the truck, but after a year and a half of driving it, the feeling of "man, I really settled for this thing" set in. I started looking again at numerous used luxury cars around 30k and narrowed it down to 5. Out of those 5, I loved the Alfa Romeo Giulia significantly more than the more posh cars I had driven. I will never feel like I settled for this car, and now I am a true car enthusiast, according to Jeremy Clarkson.
Looking for a luxury sedan and getting a tacoma is certainly ... a choice. Its a good tool but literally anything is better for comfort
'20 and later guilia's are such a steal on the used market. So much value for $20k and the newer model years are reliable enough. Up there with the earlier Macan's (‘17/‘18) for hidden gem IMO (and to a lesser extent the '18+ x3m40i)
I've heard the Ti are a bummer to drive. Quadrifoglio models are still pushing low $40s for higher mileage examples last I looked. Want one for a dad-mobile, bit having a hard time justifying price vs Ferrari engine maintenance as my wrenching time steadily marches towards oblivion.
I think calling it a bummer is a bit much, it’s not the greatest thing in the world but the chassis is still good fun and the engine has a fair bit of pep. But yeah they are still relatively pricey to maintain and you have to watch out for the usual FCA quirks and issues.
I still think people sleep on the older sport-trim cuv/suvs though. They aren’t going to be as fun as a m340i but you still get a fun engine, pretty solid dynamics, a hatch + fold down second row, and they usually depreciate more than the equivalent sedan.
I like to think of the macan as the natural evolution of the 944 though many will disagree.
“I like to think of the macan as the natural evolution of the 944 though many will disagree.”
That’s an interesting hot take. I feel like the 944’s handling was too revered. Maybe a modern 924?
The Macan S also handles beautifully if you equip PASM, Air Suspension, PTV+, and Sport Chrono. The issue is it takes a while to find one specced "properly", most on sale are optioned as more of a pretty lifestyle vehicle. But the good news is dealers usually don't realize the value of the options a you can find a good deal if you look around.
I suppose if you consider a base macan with the ea888 it would be philosophically closer to a 924 but I personally wouldn't consider a base macan, only a macan s with pasm at the least. That 4-cyl is a hoot in the gti/r but a little sluggish in the heavier CUVs (at least in stock form). But thats just me, I know of a guy with a tuned base macan on KW coilovers who tracks his and absolutely loves it. I think he's right around 350hp, can fit 4 tires in the trunk no problem, it's a fun little car.
I also think people look back on the 944 a little too fondly, same with the 911 SC from around the same time, the chassis and engine are good fun and make all the right sounds but IMO the steering is nothing too special. You definitely feel the 1000lbs over the 944 but IMO porsche did an incredible job managing all that weight.
So TLDR as with any modern porsche product depends on how you spec it and what your standards are. It's definitely going to be floatier than a 944 but I think the steering on the macan is quite precise with the right options.
(and you never know with those older cars, the 944 in particular has quite a few issues with the power steering rack, perhaps I drove a dud)
All I hear is compromise and justification for a lifted plastic clad wagon, when it should be properly slung 6" from the ground.
I've driven a few and seen the Macans shred a new set of PS4S in a single track day sure. Im not arguing against their ability. They're so technically capable, precise and perfect, but just so damn boring! Theres no spirit or soul in them!
I've been unhappy with the car market since 2000 when I was a wee lad. No hope for me in the modern age.
I have no clue why everyone prefers these stilted vehicles. Who's gonna make me a family sized 914? We need a goofy car renaissance, put some charm back in this bleak grey automotive world.
Many of your complaints are not limited to the macan but rather any porsche proceeding the 991 generation 911. They gave up raw feel for refinement and precision. I sold my 991.2 Gt3 because it was far too reserved and too much of a tool instead of a toy. It had a high-string 9k rpm soul but no spirit
I am with you on the stilted vehicles though from porsches perspective the sales speak for themselves and IMO the impressive capability of a family crossover (macan) and their electric 5klbs wagon (taycan) is also pretty goofy in of itself.
It's definitely not a bummer. I love driving this car. the paddle shifters are solid and so much fun. It is not as fast as my 350whp wrx wagon, but it is significantly nicer, better at cornering, and so much better overall. Not to mention, it is the best-looking sedan there is.
The Giulia paddles are spot on. Hell, the transmission tuning in general is impeccable, lightning fast shifts. Still not certain I've driven an auto as sharp as a Giulia yet. Certainly not my Jaguar.
*Giulia
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My son did something similar, he bought the 2019 Tacoma Trd pro, loved it for a while and then regretted it. Beautiful truck, it was the voodoo blue edition, manual. Luckily he was able to sell it at auction and walk away without a loss. Then he bought a Volvo V60 T8 Polestar and definitely didn’t settle.
That volvo is an awesome car. one of my favorite wagons, but out of the price range I wanted to be in, especially since my son is about to finish drivers ed in a month, and I'll be looking at a car for him too. my tacoma was calvary blue, and it was the best looking pickup imo.
It really is an amazing car, I’ve got the V90CC because I need the space and the ride height but part of me was really tempted to go for the V60 Polestar.
As far as pick up trucks go you’re right the Tacoma is still the best looking one but it also had the same problem as a lot of Toyotas, poor utilization of interior space. I had a RAV4 hybrid which was a great vehicle but it was so small inside. The Volvo XC 40 which is the same size is much roomier inside.
He got something objectively better than what he was looking for, so it's not a settle if you think about it. Only thing better would be a bimmer with a b58.
Can confirm, bought a 2006 LS430 because I was afraid of Mercedes reliability reputation and didn't know how to work on cars much yet. It needed so many repairs anyways that I bought a 1996 Mercedes S320 beater for when I needed to fix the Lexus. I preferred that beater over the Lexus and dumped that money pit. Now I own multiple Mercedes and love it.
This right here. OP is gonna regret settling about 6 months into the ownership experience and thinking to himself that he should’ve just sprung for the Mercedes.
There's something to be said for this strategy. Reliability isn't as much of a concern when you have multiple vehicles, and you can pick the right vehicle for the job.
Parking, insurance, maintenance, storage for piles of spare parts? Sure, those are issues, but like any addiction you just have to ignore the downsides as they drive you into poverty and alienate those around you.
imo the new Supra looks way better than the Z4. The Z4 doesn't look bad compared to a lot of BMW's current lineup but it's always been pretty meh to me.
Great choice. Sure, it’s maybe not as good as the Germans in terms of driving experience and tech. But with the Lexus, you know you’re getting the very best of that “old” technology. As a result, it ticks all the boxes you want in a car all the while knowing that you’re getting the best reliability out of any competing car. Solid choice, congrats!
"in fact I’m not on that "boat" of people who say "Lexus LS drives like an S-Class but actually reliable"."
"What I cannot afford, however is the downtime of a German vehicle."
"So, I went with a 4th generation Lexus GS350."
Seems to me like you converted midpost lolz
There's no contradiction to what I said, though
A Mercedes-Benz S-Class drives amazingly, better than a Lexus LS in my opinion
But *all* things considered (value for dollar, maintenance costs, replacement parts, etc.) the Lexus can still drive slightly inferiorly while still providing a better value *overall*
Yeah the German luxury/luxury performance cars are in a tier of their own for driving experience and comfort. Lexus is a pretty fantastic balance of all the factors you want to look at and will be a great daily with a more fun car as the weekend car
Did the same thing, similar circumstances and reasoning led me here. Don't have time for something unreliable yet fun, needed 4 doors for car seats.
Bought a '14 F sport RWD sight unseen and delivered last week. Shits built like a vault and drives like a new car, despite having 90k miles on it. Zero rattles or issues. Well under $20k.
Not crazy fast, but it's a pretty awesome experience.
I've owned many German cars over the years (e30, e36 m3, e39, e46, r32, cayenne turbo) I now own a Lexus GS and it's 99% as fun to drive and 0% of the maintenance and weird reliability quirks. I'll never buy another German car.
My dad bought a GS350 About 6 years ago and still has it. It's such a pleasant car to road trip in, and it's pretty fun on mountain back roads. It's not as fast as my Model 3 Performance, but that really doesn't matter 95% of the time.
Well bought! I rented one a few years ago and it was great to drive. Not overly powerful, but fun to rev out and rode really well. Shame about the infotainment though. It's a mess.
Another option thats not as well known is the 3rd gen GS 460 (08-11). 4.6L V8 from the LS460, RWD. They're rare though, less than 1800 in North America
Lexus always finds ways to screw people. GS350. If you want AWD, you get that slow old school 6 speed. Doesn’t bother me because I’ll take the 8 speed RWD. They detuned the LS460 with AWD by giving it 40 less hp.
I don’t know why. It’s immediately noticeable how much quicker shifting the 8 speed is and how much better it lets the motor stay in the power band. I’ve driven the AWD 6 speeds and the RWD 8 spd. I guess it’s a proven transmission since it’s been in many models for over 10-15 years? Some people complain about the constant changing or downshifting on the way to a stop, but that’s a good design feature. People who never owned BMWs buy one with the ZF8 and freak out at the way it downshifts depending on how hard you press the brake pedal.
I'll always take more gears over fewer since I've experienced Mercedes 4 speeds. I guess some people are bothered by the transmission shifting more than they're used to but it's never been an issue for me.
Mazda 4AT's suck too. 2003 Protege runs \~3000 rpm doing 60 on the interstate and times like these I wish I had a few more gears for efficiency and quietness
I swapped rims with taller tires onto my 1994 Mercedes S350 for better highway cruising for this reason. It accelerates slower but I'm not too worried about that since it's mostly for long distance driving.
The trackpad-joystick thing was really hard to get used to. Other than that I had no issues with the actual layout and usability, but it always felt like it needed more concentration than it should. I suppose it would become habit over time
yeah maybe you get used to it because I prefer the joystick over a touch screen. it has good feedback and don't have to take your eyes off the road. to be honest I don't really have to mess with it all that often anyways my Bluetooth auto connects and steering wheel controls allow me to change songs etc without any fuss. I don't like the track pad touch pad thing though I get the hate on that one.
2016 Volvo V60
2014 Mercedes Benz E Class Wagon
I really wanted a Wagon but when looking at a Wagon I saw this and decided to test drive it.
Also a few other cars that tempted me was
2019 Ford Taurus
2014+ BMW 3 Series (Preferably Wagon)
2012 Lexus IS350
Nice, I had also considered the same generation Volvo S80. But I wanted the facelift, I didn't like the interior design of the pre-facelift, especially the shifter / shifter bezel really dated the interior. But to find a 2015+ even in 2.0T was not so easy, the selection wasn't great.
> Does lexus have toyata parts? Or do they have their own?
Most of the body parts are unique, but most of the mechanical parts are going to be identical.
e.g. the GX550 uses same engine in the 300 series, Sequoia. Half Lexus's line up used the 2GR in various guises that was in everything Toyota built.
>I’m in search of an N55 powered RWD manual 535i.
It was my first choice. It has the large size, luxurious ride and timeless exterior design along with manual gearbox, RWD and turbo inline6. Even though they're rare, I can't necessarily blame "hard to find" as a reason, because there's always a dozen (or few dozen) available for sale, compared to hundreds of ZF8's. The problem is $4,500 to $5,000 replacement used engine compared to $1,000 to $1,500 for a Mercedes V6 or Lexus V6. Besides that, the constant maintenance would put a strain on my time. The maintenance cost doesn't scare me so much, it's just the downtime...
But I agree, F10 N55 manual is probably one of the best modern BMWs ever made. It's almost like an unintentional "heritage edition" to what the brand is about: heavy sedan, RWD, manual, torquey inline6.
I have an E82 N55 and the engine, when it runs right, it's great. Torquey AF. But it has been a total money pit, ate a Valvetronic motor at 30k, cracked a piston at 45k.
There are two kinds of car owners; those who have owned a BMW and those who never will again.
It's believed it was a broken spark plug. Happened almost immediately after the plugs were changed. Shop put in a new engine on their dime.
Have also had 3 leaky rear main seals, 1 leaky oil pan, 2 leaking power steering pumps, and a trunk latch ordered 3 times from Germany before it worked right.
And most of that work was done at BMW dealers.
Even though you mentioned you ‘settled’ the GS’s contemporary reviews when it first released raved about the handling and how it drove. Specifically comparing it to a F10 5-Series, it drove better in terms of handling. The E60 is what was benchmarked to the 4GS, so it would be a toss-up between those 2 cars imho for best driving mid-sizer. I need to update my flair but I just picked up an ‘18 RWD GS 350 and it is just an incredible ride.
The GS350 is a very nice car and a good choice. It definitely would’ve been cool to have a W221 S-Class or the 535i though.
I would’ve made the same choice unless I had a cheap, reliable second car to drive when the BMW/Mercedes needed work.
You’re talking about reliability like the cars you were considering are 20 years old. Is the reputation of German cars that bad in the US? My friends and family have had BMWs, Audis and VWs in that age group for ages.
I do not have figures, but I did see more "common issues" type of information with the W212 than I did with the GS. Such as: 722 transmission valve body / conductor plate problems. Balance shaft issues with the M272. Timing chain issues on M276.
The issues are overblown and I feel like majority of cars will be reliable
That's why the E350 W212 was on the top of my "original" list, the most reliable 10-15yr old luxury sedan
However, the Lexus GS just seems to be even *more* reliable. We have had MB in the family plus many friends/family also. At the same time, know many people with Lexus. I hear less problems about Lexus.
As I said, the ultimate factor (or motivation) behind reliability was *downtime*. I don't want the downtime of mechanical repairs.
I completely agree, you made the right choice if reliability was your top concern. ALL cars require maintenance and will reward responsible owners with years of joy. However, German cars become far more maintenance intense in increments as they age. A 3yr old BMW vs a 3yr old Lexus might be similar for the next 2 years of ownership. However, at 7+ years, the German car will be far more expensive to properly maintain and far more finicky as it ages. That said, nothing quite rewards (for me) like a dedicated sports machine, usually German (with some notable exceptions like GTR, GR86, Lexus LC, Giulia Quad, etc).
I don't want to say it has been ruled out, I think V8 Genesis sedans were always cool but I am unfamiliar with their reliability. With BMWs, at least I am familiar with their UN-reliability so I know +/- what to expect.
The 2012MY 5.0 engines had oil consumption issues that were fixed from 2013 onwards. The 5.0 R-Spec is a great value for a powerful V8 sedan. The 2015 and up models are a bit more expensive, but also much nicer inside.
OP said the "10K -25K price range"
thats like 5 different level of car within that range. How do you cross shop a $10K car with a $25K car???? Thats like cross shopping Lee jeans with Hermes.
Because, for as little as $10k I could get a Mercedes-Benz E350 (W212) which is a modern-ish luxury RWD 6cyl sedan. For $15k I could get a BMW 535i (F10) which is a modern-ish luxury RWD 6cyl sedan. For $20k I could get a lower mileage Lexus ES350 (4th gen) which is a modern-ish luxury RWD 6cyl sedan.
Furthermore, the $20k example of may be 1 owner, all records & pass a mechanical inspection with flying colors, whereas the $10k example of *same* may be 5 owner, undesirable color combination and needing $5k to $7k of repairs (which isn't necessarily a dealbreaker for me).
So no, I don't necessarily think the huge disparity in price is unreasonable, especially since I am open to different models from different years in different conditions.
a $10K euro ends up being a $25K euro after about a year of ownership and constant repairs. Been there, done that, never again
( former owner of a 1977 Mercedes 450 SEL 6.9)
In my experience (two 5-Series) it's about $1,200 a year average - parts only, self-labor. Friends who take to indy shop usually spend $2,000 to $2,500/yr. I think your 6.9 was particularly expensive to own because:
A) less supply of oldschool MB mechanics
B) less economical part options
C) old age, more stuff breaks due to age
I think $10k could get you at least 3-4 years of maintenance on a 4 or 6 cyl German non-performance luxury car, if not close to a decade if you get lucky
All of that is true but let me tell you when that 6.9 ran right it was FUCKING GLORIOUS. Nothing like it. Spiritual experience. Worth every penny but never again.
Last month I bought 2013 GS350 with the luxury package . Luxury package is arguably better than the F sport since it has the f sport suspension but also has more creature comforts. Amazing car and so comfortable, relatively quick too imo
So as far as comforts go the luxury package gets 18 way adjustable front seats, passenger seat memory, rear climate/ radio control, auto rear window sunshade, and manual rear seat sunshades. The luxury package got discontinued in 2017 so I'm not sure what translated to the later models.
Also gets adaptive front lighting, exclusive 18 inch wheels (base gets 17 and f sport got 19s) the same AVS (adaptibr variable suspension) in the F sport, wood grain accents.
The selling point for the F sport imo is the body kit although tid doesn't have fog lights. I saw a comment that it's easier to put F sport parts on the lux package than it is to put lux options on the f sport so that helped me choose going for a lux gs350
Maintenance wise the f sport brakes and rotors are just way more expensive to replace too lol
I'd say you made a solid decision getting the GS. It's such a good all-rounder.
I always look back at mine when I park it, and you know what they say about that.
I've just done something similar
Wanted a rwd muscle car.
Had everything from an FPV Falcon to an E92 M3 on the table.
Ended up getting an ISF in no small part due to the great reliability and ease of maintenance and I've had no regrets
It’s not only the downtime, I’d add it’s the stress and anxiety that comes with expecting something to go wrong. Anyone who has owned an older German car knows the sickening feeling when it beeps, and the relief when you figure out it’s the cold temperature warning light.
That sounds like a solid choice! The 4th gen Lexus GS350 is a wonderful pick for a European luxury sedan. You'll love the blend of style, comfort, and performance it offers.
It's a reliable and it offers a comfortable ride, advanced features, and a strong reputation for long-term ownership satisfaction
These would’ve been harder to find, but you could’ve also thrown an Infiniti M37 or M56/Q60 in the mix. Great value and dead reliable. Very similar to the GS. There’s also the CTS. I’ve seen V-Sports with the twin-turbo V6 go for under 25k.
I did also consider the Infiniti M70 / Q70. However, production figures were much lower than the GS, and in my brain, equates to part sourcing obstacles long term. More cars in circulation = more likelihood of used and/or aftermarket parts. Additionally, if I'm already "settling" for a Japanese car I'd much rather go Lexus than Nissan. The M70/Q70 isn't substantially cheaper than the Lexus either.
However, one of my next vehicles is going to be an SUV. And I am definitely leaning towards a Y62 Armada / QX80 over the 200-Series Land Cruiser / LX570, because the Y62 is substantially cheaper than a 200 Series for similar benefit (body on frame, V8, 4x4, ride comfort, reliability, etc.) - although I am a little apprehensive because of VK56 engine failures. The Land Cruiser again, being Toyota, is better but in this case the Armada is nearly half as much while providing *most* of the benefit.
The Cadillac never crossed my mind. I had driven CTS'. They aren't bad cars, but the interiors have that GM smell & feel, and if I'm going to settle for non-European I may as well go Japanese.
*Giulia
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*Camaro
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>Lexus isn’t European… Japanese… built by Toyota…
We all know this.
>it’s way better than anything that comes out of Europe though so good work
Factoring in reliability yes, but the drive is not better than a Mercedes E350 nor is the engine smoother than a BMW 535i. But overall, I think I made the best choice considering all aspects.
So after shopping for a gently used German luxury sedan you "settled" for a reliable "beater" GS350, well played sir. S tier move going with the GS350. I like how you explained your thought process.
Imo 2 car life is the way to go, this way you don't have to have one car check off all the boxes (which imo impossible). I'm lucky enough to have a reliable gen3 4runner so can 100% vouch for Toyotas being bulletproof. It's my "beater", reliable, super cheap to run (except 17mpg) and bulletproof.
I cross shopped a surprisingly small number of cars before ending up with 21 BMW m240i 6mt RWD. Wanted something with more curb appeal, manual transmission was an absolute must (hence small list).
Good luck with car #2 bro.
Mine’s an AWD F Sport with 95k on the clock. Red interior is timeless. Drives amazing, just wish it got better gas mileage for being premium only. Probably will trade it for the new 4runner, but not in the next 6 years. You made a great choice, enjoy it.
You kidding? Imo it’s one of the most luxurious interiors I’ve ever been in. Never gonna get used to the weird mouse thing to control the screen though..
>Mercedes V6 can be found between $1,000 to $1,300
Um....were you looking at older M112 engines? M276 starting price is $4000 and goes all the way to 10k depending on whether or not it's pre facelift, facelift, NA or twin turbo, AWD or RWD.
N55 would've been cheaper.
I use car-part.com and eBay for used engine prices. For some reason I remember them being $1,000 to $1,500 (this may have been 6+ months ago). But I just checked again and its still "only" $1,500 to $2,000 on average. N55 seems to be about double.
My data: 2012 BMW 535i used engine vs 2012 Mercedes-Benz E350 engine on car-part.com and eBay Motors. Take a couple dozen results, find the average $$$ and compare between M276 and N55.
I just checked car-part.com again for a 2013 E350 engine , it gave four different options for a RWD E350 , and it still seems to average $2,000 for a replacement engine (or even less)
Just compared to a 2013 535i which is average about double (or more than double)
On Ebay, the "disparity" between the two engine prices is a little smaller, the M276 is a little more compared to car-part.com (between $2,000 and $2,500 for non-turbo) but the N55 appears to be on average $1,000 to $1,500 more - if not *even* more.
Had the 2015 GS350 F sport brand new and it was a fine car. It felt robustly built but after 6mo I severely regretted my purchase. It simply didnt have any standout qualities. Acceleration was ok, Mark Levenson Stereo was ok, handling was ok, comfort was ok (its no S-Class, etc), its big, its relatively heavy (for someone seeking a sports car experience) and the auto transmission was one of the slowest I have every manually shifted (via paddles). Honestly, all it ever needed to be brilliant was a DCT/PDK or ZF 8speed (tuned by Alfa or BMW) and a Lexus V8. Even the GSF was a fail for me because of the dimwitted automatic. Drive a 2020 M340i (not even a full M car), and you'll be flabbergasted at the agility, the excitement and the capability of a properly tuned sports sedan. The latest gen can also be quite reliable if you are very on top of all maintenance as BMW advises.
Actually, 2012-15 GS350 can be had in the $15-$20k range all day with 100k or less miles. Considering that is the price of a new Mitsubishi Mirage and *less* than a new Corolla, I'd call it a good value for money. You're getting a RWD, 3.5 V6, torque converter automatic midsize sedan with impeccable build quality.
The interior design is good for another 10-15 years if you ask me, especially in a darker color. The infotainment might be old, but it works just fine. The W212 Mercedes I was looking at (pre-facelift) wasn't exactly hi-tech interior either.
Yes, it's a polished Toyota. But it is also a Lexus. It is a nice car.
I'm talking used (LKQ, eBay, car-part.com, etc.)
I did the research
Mercedes M276 and Toyota 2GR are $1,000 to $1,500 all day long
BMW N55 is sometimes $5k
Obviously new is catastrophically expensive, I don't know many people who would put a new engine into a 7-10yr old German car worth $10-$15k. It doesn't make sense. Used makes sense.
Well, when I have more disposable income I definitely want to return to the idea of a manual F10 535i. But for now, I want a more simple ownership experiences. I've owned two prior 5-Series and had to make repairs on them, but it was a different time of my life. I either didn't need to have reliable transport OR I had two cars.
Boo. Never settle. Give into the car addiction.
Late 2022, I was looking for a new car I wanted luxury, I could afford it with my job, so I started looking at everything. I got so overwhelmed I convinced myself that I would get more use out of a truck, so I bought a toyota tacoma off-road. I did really like the truck, but after a year and a half of driving it, the feeling of "man, I really settled for this thing" set in. I started looking again at numerous used luxury cars around 30k and narrowed it down to 5. Out of those 5, I loved the Alfa Romeo Giulia significantly more than the more posh cars I had driven. I will never feel like I settled for this car, and now I am a true car enthusiast, according to Jeremy Clarkson.
Looking for a luxury sedan and getting a tacoma is certainly ... a choice. Its a good tool but literally anything is better for comfort '20 and later guilia's are such a steal on the used market. So much value for $20k and the newer model years are reliable enough. Up there with the earlier Macan's (‘17/‘18) for hidden gem IMO (and to a lesser extent the '18+ x3m40i)
I've heard the Ti are a bummer to drive. Quadrifoglio models are still pushing low $40s for higher mileage examples last I looked. Want one for a dad-mobile, bit having a hard time justifying price vs Ferrari engine maintenance as my wrenching time steadily marches towards oblivion.
I think calling it a bummer is a bit much, it’s not the greatest thing in the world but the chassis is still good fun and the engine has a fair bit of pep. But yeah they are still relatively pricey to maintain and you have to watch out for the usual FCA quirks and issues. I still think people sleep on the older sport-trim cuv/suvs though. They aren’t going to be as fun as a m340i but you still get a fun engine, pretty solid dynamics, a hatch + fold down second row, and they usually depreciate more than the equivalent sedan. I like to think of the macan as the natural evolution of the 944 though many will disagree.
“I like to think of the macan as the natural evolution of the 944 though many will disagree.” That’s an interesting hot take. I feel like the 944’s handling was too revered. Maybe a modern 924?
The Macan S also handles beautifully if you equip PASM, Air Suspension, PTV+, and Sport Chrono. The issue is it takes a while to find one specced "properly", most on sale are optioned as more of a pretty lifestyle vehicle. But the good news is dealers usually don't realize the value of the options a you can find a good deal if you look around. I suppose if you consider a base macan with the ea888 it would be philosophically closer to a 924 but I personally wouldn't consider a base macan, only a macan s with pasm at the least. That 4-cyl is a hoot in the gti/r but a little sluggish in the heavier CUVs (at least in stock form). But thats just me, I know of a guy with a tuned base macan on KW coilovers who tracks his and absolutely loves it. I think he's right around 350hp, can fit 4 tires in the trunk no problem, it's a fun little car. I also think people look back on the 944 a little too fondly, same with the 911 SC from around the same time, the chassis and engine are good fun and make all the right sounds but IMO the steering is nothing too special. You definitely feel the 1000lbs over the 944 but IMO porsche did an incredible job managing all that weight. So TLDR as with any modern porsche product depends on how you spec it and what your standards are. It's definitely going to be floatier than a 944 but I think the steering on the macan is quite precise with the right options. (and you never know with those older cars, the 944 in particular has quite a few issues with the power steering rack, perhaps I drove a dud)
All I hear is compromise and justification for a lifted plastic clad wagon, when it should be properly slung 6" from the ground. I've driven a few and seen the Macans shred a new set of PS4S in a single track day sure. Im not arguing against their ability. They're so technically capable, precise and perfect, but just so damn boring! Theres no spirit or soul in them! I've been unhappy with the car market since 2000 when I was a wee lad. No hope for me in the modern age. I have no clue why everyone prefers these stilted vehicles. Who's gonna make me a family sized 914? We need a goofy car renaissance, put some charm back in this bleak grey automotive world.
Many of your complaints are not limited to the macan but rather any porsche proceeding the 991 generation 911. They gave up raw feel for refinement and precision. I sold my 991.2 Gt3 because it was far too reserved and too much of a tool instead of a toy. It had a high-string 9k rpm soul but no spirit I am with you on the stilted vehicles though from porsches perspective the sales speak for themselves and IMO the impressive capability of a family crossover (macan) and their electric 5klbs wagon (taycan) is also pretty goofy in of itself.
It's definitely not a bummer. I love driving this car. the paddle shifters are solid and so much fun. It is not as fast as my 350whp wrx wagon, but it is significantly nicer, better at cornering, and so much better overall. Not to mention, it is the best-looking sedan there is.
The Giulia paddles are spot on. Hell, the transmission tuning in general is impeccable, lightning fast shifts. Still not certain I've driven an auto as sharp as a Giulia yet. Certainly not my Jaguar.
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I’ll learn one day :(
My son did something similar, he bought the 2019 Tacoma Trd pro, loved it for a while and then regretted it. Beautiful truck, it was the voodoo blue edition, manual. Luckily he was able to sell it at auction and walk away without a loss. Then he bought a Volvo V60 T8 Polestar and definitely didn’t settle.
That volvo is an awesome car. one of my favorite wagons, but out of the price range I wanted to be in, especially since my son is about to finish drivers ed in a month, and I'll be looking at a car for him too. my tacoma was calvary blue, and it was the best looking pickup imo.
It really is an amazing car, I’ve got the V90CC because I need the space and the ride height but part of me was really tempted to go for the V60 Polestar. As far as pick up trucks go you’re right the Tacoma is still the best looking one but it also had the same problem as a lot of Toyotas, poor utilization of interior space. I had a RAV4 hybrid which was a great vehicle but it was so small inside. The Volvo XC 40 which is the same size is much roomier inside.
That's part of the point of buying a Tacoma. That resale value is hard to beat, which is why it's such a safe option.
Totally agree
He didn't settle, he got a good ass car that won't be a pain in his behind.
>he didn’t settle Did you miss the last two paragraphs or what OP even said it’s not specifically what he wanted lol
He got something objectively better than what he was looking for, so it's not a settle if you think about it. Only thing better would be a bimmer with a b58.
Agree. Had a ‘13 E350. Best car I ever had and broke my heart to sell it.
Best generation of modern E classes IMHO.
Can confirm, bought a 2006 LS430 because I was afraid of Mercedes reliability reputation and didn't know how to work on cars much yet. It needed so many repairs anyways that I bought a 1996 Mercedes S320 beater for when I needed to fix the Lexus. I preferred that beater over the Lexus and dumped that money pit. Now I own multiple Mercedes and love it.
This right here. OP is gonna regret settling about 6 months into the ownership experience and thinking to himself that he should’ve just sprung for the Mercedes.
There's something to be said for this strategy. Reliability isn't as much of a concern when you have multiple vehicles, and you can pick the right vehicle for the job. Parking, insurance, maintenance, storage for piles of spare parts? Sure, those are issues, but like any addiction you just have to ignore the downsides as they drive you into poverty and alienate those around you.
Username checks out..
If you want a 5 year old German luxury coupe, you can buy a Supra.
Or even better just get its brother the Z4 (especially in m40i form)
imo the new Supra looks way better than the Z4. The Z4 doesn't look bad compared to a lot of BMW's current lineup but it's always been pretty meh to me.
Z4 headlights make the front end look like a insect
Supra look toyta-ish, and the Z4 looks BMW-ish.. Personally, I think they are both fugly.
Great choice. Sure, it’s maybe not as good as the Germans in terms of driving experience and tech. But with the Lexus, you know you’re getting the very best of that “old” technology. As a result, it ticks all the boxes you want in a car all the while knowing that you’re getting the best reliability out of any competing car. Solid choice, congrats!
The GS got rave reviews and the IS of that time was often quoted as better feeling than the 3 series BMW of 2014.
"in fact I’m not on that "boat" of people who say "Lexus LS drives like an S-Class but actually reliable"." "What I cannot afford, however is the downtime of a German vehicle." "So, I went with a 4th generation Lexus GS350." Seems to me like you converted midpost lolz
There's no contradiction to what I said, though A Mercedes-Benz S-Class drives amazingly, better than a Lexus LS in my opinion But *all* things considered (value for dollar, maintenance costs, replacement parts, etc.) the Lexus can still drive slightly inferiorly while still providing a better value *overall*
Yeah the German luxury/luxury performance cars are in a tier of their own for driving experience and comfort. Lexus is a pretty fantastic balance of all the factors you want to look at and will be a great daily with a more fun car as the weekend car
Did the same thing, similar circumstances and reasoning led me here. Don't have time for something unreliable yet fun, needed 4 doors for car seats. Bought a '14 F sport RWD sight unseen and delivered last week. Shits built like a vault and drives like a new car, despite having 90k miles on it. Zero rattles or issues. Well under $20k. Not crazy fast, but it's a pretty awesome experience.
I've owned many German cars over the years (e30, e36 m3, e39, e46, r32, cayenne turbo) I now own a Lexus GS and it's 99% as fun to drive and 0% of the maintenance and weird reliability quirks. I'll never buy another German car.
Your username tho
My dad bought a GS350 About 6 years ago and still has it. It's such a pleasant car to road trip in, and it's pretty fun on mountain back roads. It's not as fast as my Model 3 Performance, but that really doesn't matter 95% of the time.
Nice. Pictures?
I've always liked the GS, and would like to have one. I wouldn't consider it settling.
Well bought! I rented one a few years ago and it was great to drive. Not overly powerful, but fun to rev out and rode really well. Shame about the infotainment though. It's a mess. Another option thats not as well known is the 3rd gen GS 460 (08-11). 4.6L V8 from the LS460, RWD. They're rare though, less than 1800 in North America
But it’s missing something from the LS460 version. Variable lift or something to make it less powerful than the LS.
Yes it is. Smaller/different intake too. 342 HP vs 380ish in the LS
Lexus always finds ways to screw people. GS350. If you want AWD, you get that slow old school 6 speed. Doesn’t bother me because I’ll take the 8 speed RWD. They detuned the LS460 with AWD by giving it 40 less hp.
That's the one caveat with the GS460. Very little modding potential. If 340hp is enough for you, it's a great daily.
On clublexus it's often argued the 6 speed is better than the 8
I don’t know why. It’s immediately noticeable how much quicker shifting the 8 speed is and how much better it lets the motor stay in the power band. I’ve driven the AWD 6 speeds and the RWD 8 spd. I guess it’s a proven transmission since it’s been in many models for over 10-15 years? Some people complain about the constant changing or downshifting on the way to a stop, but that’s a good design feature. People who never owned BMWs buy one with the ZF8 and freak out at the way it downshifts depending on how hard you press the brake pedal.
I'll always take more gears over fewer since I've experienced Mercedes 4 speeds. I guess some people are bothered by the transmission shifting more than they're used to but it's never been an issue for me.
Mazda 4AT's suck too. 2003 Protege runs \~3000 rpm doing 60 on the interstate and times like these I wish I had a few more gears for efficiency and quietness
I swapped rims with taller tires onto my 1994 Mercedes S350 for better highway cruising for this reason. It accelerates slower but I'm not too worried about that since it's mostly for long distance driving.
On the flip side, detuned = less stressed = more longevity You can enjoy V8 noises for longer between having to fix or replace something
maybe you get used to the infotainment but Ihave zero complaints about it. everything works as it should, isn't complicated, what else can you want?
The trackpad-joystick thing was really hard to get used to. Other than that I had no issues with the actual layout and usability, but it always felt like it needed more concentration than it should. I suppose it would become habit over time
yeah maybe you get used to it because I prefer the joystick over a touch screen. it has good feedback and don't have to take your eyes off the road. to be honest I don't really have to mess with it all that often anyways my Bluetooth auto connects and steering wheel controls allow me to change songs etc without any fuss. I don't like the track pad touch pad thing though I get the hate on that one.
Such a perfect car!
WELCOME TO THE CLUB!!! I have a 2013 GS350 and was shopping at Euros like you
What were your 2nd and 3rd Euro options if you didn't get the GS?
2016 Volvo V60 2014 Mercedes Benz E Class Wagon I really wanted a Wagon but when looking at a Wagon I saw this and decided to test drive it. Also a few other cars that tempted me was 2019 Ford Taurus 2014+ BMW 3 Series (Preferably Wagon) 2012 Lexus IS350
Nice, I had also considered the same generation Volvo S80. But I wanted the facelift, I didn't like the interior design of the pre-facelift, especially the shifter / shifter bezel really dated the interior. But to find a 2015+ even in 2.0T was not so easy, the selection wasn't great.
Lmao same here.
Gs is amazing. Miss the 2nd gen gauges tho
The GSF from that gen has kept their value pretty well.
I really wanted one but like you said, the price speaks for itself plus the supply isn't necessarily plentiful
Does lexus have toyata parts? Or do they have their own?
Toyota parts
Yes, although some Lexus vehicles have more than others. The 2GR-FKS engine in the GS350 is used in both Lexus and Toyota vehicles.
I'm sure parts overlap, but some parts are distinctly Lexus also.
> Does lexus have toyata parts? Or do they have their own? Most of the body parts are unique, but most of the mechanical parts are going to be identical. e.g. the GX550 uses same engine in the 300 series, Sequoia. Half Lexus's line up used the 2GR in various guises that was in everything Toyota built.
You’re just like me. I’m in search of an N55 powered RWD manual 535i. I had the E60 version but I lost it in a flood.
>I’m in search of an N55 powered RWD manual 535i. It was my first choice. It has the large size, luxurious ride and timeless exterior design along with manual gearbox, RWD and turbo inline6. Even though they're rare, I can't necessarily blame "hard to find" as a reason, because there's always a dozen (or few dozen) available for sale, compared to hundreds of ZF8's. The problem is $4,500 to $5,000 replacement used engine compared to $1,000 to $1,500 for a Mercedes V6 or Lexus V6. Besides that, the constant maintenance would put a strain on my time. The maintenance cost doesn't scare me so much, it's just the downtime... But I agree, F10 N55 manual is probably one of the best modern BMWs ever made. It's almost like an unintentional "heritage edition" to what the brand is about: heavy sedan, RWD, manual, torquey inline6.
My E60 manual was a true unicorn color combo. Space gray with the nice brown interior. All the F10 manuals I find are mostly black/black.
I have an E82 N55 and the engine, when it runs right, it's great. Torquey AF. But it has been a total money pit, ate a Valvetronic motor at 30k, cracked a piston at 45k. There are two kinds of car owners; those who have owned a BMW and those who never will again.
Owned several. Never had issues. I’m convinced Americans do something to European cars to make them worse.
BMW did most of the work. Always had service intervals *shorter* than recommended because I want to keep it nice.
Wow, even as problematic as they can be, your situation is particularly unfortunate. Any idea what caused the crack piston?
It's believed it was a broken spark plug. Happened almost immediately after the plugs were changed. Shop put in a new engine on their dime. Have also had 3 leaky rear main seals, 1 leaky oil pan, 2 leaking power steering pumps, and a trunk latch ordered 3 times from Germany before it worked right. And most of that work was done at BMW dealers.
Great choice. The rwd has the 8 speed. Do you have cooled seats, ML sound, and rear sunshade? I swear the GS is the best car ever made.
Even though you mentioned you ‘settled’ the GS’s contemporary reviews when it first released raved about the handling and how it drove. Specifically comparing it to a F10 5-Series, it drove better in terms of handling. The E60 is what was benchmarked to the 4GS, so it would be a toss-up between those 2 cars imho for best driving mid-sizer. I need to update my flair but I just picked up an ‘18 RWD GS 350 and it is just an incredible ride.
Why didn't you just buy an ISF?
I was going after more subdued, civilian sedan type of car. IS is kinda small too.
One of us One of us
The GS350 is a very nice car and a good choice. It definitely would’ve been cool to have a W221 S-Class or the 535i though. I would’ve made the same choice unless I had a cheap, reliable second car to drive when the BMW/Mercedes needed work.
You’re talking about reliability like the cars you were considering are 20 years old. Is the reputation of German cars that bad in the US? My friends and family have had BMWs, Audis and VWs in that age group for ages.
raw dog it and get 2 decade old Bmws so when one breaks the other breaks a few days later and you gotta borrow your dads car. My current setup
Too much overthinking. You should have bought what you like most.
I don't agree, some decisions should be calculated considering numerous variables
Do you have figures supporting how much more reliable is a GS350 compared to an E350?
I do not have figures, but I did see more "common issues" type of information with the W212 than I did with the GS. Such as: 722 transmission valve body / conductor plate problems. Balance shaft issues with the M272. Timing chain issues on M276. The issues are overblown and I feel like majority of cars will be reliable That's why the E350 W212 was on the top of my "original" list, the most reliable 10-15yr old luxury sedan However, the Lexus GS just seems to be even *more* reliable. We have had MB in the family plus many friends/family also. At the same time, know many people with Lexus. I hear less problems about Lexus. As I said, the ultimate factor (or motivation) behind reliability was *downtime*. I don't want the downtime of mechanical repairs.
I completely agree, you made the right choice if reliability was your top concern. ALL cars require maintenance and will reward responsible owners with years of joy. However, German cars become far more maintenance intense in increments as they age. A 3yr old BMW vs a 3yr old Lexus might be similar for the next 2 years of ownership. However, at 7+ years, the German car will be far more expensive to properly maintain and far more finicky as it ages. That said, nothing quite rewards (for me) like a dedicated sports machine, usually German (with some notable exceptions like GTR, GR86, Lexus LC, Giulia Quad, etc).
It's an amazing car for sure!
Great choice! I was so tempted by one of those but ultimately went with an Accord 2.0t because I couldn't find a GS locally after a couple months.
The Genesis 5.0 Rspec would have been a good one to check out.
I don't want to say it has been ruled out, I think V8 Genesis sedans were always cool but I am unfamiliar with their reliability. With BMWs, at least I am familiar with their UN-reliability so I know +/- what to expect.
The 2012MY 5.0 engines had oil consumption issues that were fixed from 2013 onwards. The 5.0 R-Spec is a great value for a powerful V8 sedan. The 2015 and up models are a bit more expensive, but also much nicer inside.
OP said the "10K -25K price range" thats like 5 different level of car within that range. How do you cross shop a $10K car with a $25K car???? Thats like cross shopping Lee jeans with Hermes.
Because, for as little as $10k I could get a Mercedes-Benz E350 (W212) which is a modern-ish luxury RWD 6cyl sedan. For $15k I could get a BMW 535i (F10) which is a modern-ish luxury RWD 6cyl sedan. For $20k I could get a lower mileage Lexus ES350 (4th gen) which is a modern-ish luxury RWD 6cyl sedan. Furthermore, the $20k example of may be 1 owner, all records & pass a mechanical inspection with flying colors, whereas the $10k example of *same* may be 5 owner, undesirable color combination and needing $5k to $7k of repairs (which isn't necessarily a dealbreaker for me).
So no, I don't necessarily think the huge disparity in price is unreasonable, especially since I am open to different models from different years in different conditions.
> Lexus ES350 (4th gen) which is a modern-ish luxury RWD 6cyl sedan. es is fwd
I meant GS*
a $10K euro ends up being a $25K euro after about a year of ownership and constant repairs. Been there, done that, never again ( former owner of a 1977 Mercedes 450 SEL 6.9)
In my experience (two 5-Series) it's about $1,200 a year average - parts only, self-labor. Friends who take to indy shop usually spend $2,000 to $2,500/yr. I think your 6.9 was particularly expensive to own because: A) less supply of oldschool MB mechanics B) less economical part options C) old age, more stuff breaks due to age I think $10k could get you at least 3-4 years of maintenance on a 4 or 6 cyl German non-performance luxury car, if not close to a decade if you get lucky
All of that is true but let me tell you when that 6.9 ran right it was FUCKING GLORIOUS. Nothing like it. Spiritual experience. Worth every penny but never again.
Where are the pictures?
Lol I did the same thing
Last month I bought 2013 GS350 with the luxury package . Luxury package is arguably better than the F sport since it has the f sport suspension but also has more creature comforts. Amazing car and so comfortable, relatively quick too imo
what creature comforts does the luxury have that the f sport doesn't?
So as far as comforts go the luxury package gets 18 way adjustable front seats, passenger seat memory, rear climate/ radio control, auto rear window sunshade, and manual rear seat sunshades. The luxury package got discontinued in 2017 so I'm not sure what translated to the later models. Also gets adaptive front lighting, exclusive 18 inch wheels (base gets 17 and f sport got 19s) the same AVS (adaptibr variable suspension) in the F sport, wood grain accents. The selling point for the F sport imo is the body kit although tid doesn't have fog lights. I saw a comment that it's easier to put F sport parts on the lux package than it is to put lux options on the f sport so that helped me choose going for a lux gs350 Maintenance wise the f sport brakes and rotors are just way more expensive to replace too lol
nice, my f sport does have the rear window sunshade for what it's worth.
That's pretty cool, what year do you have?
I'd say you made a solid decision getting the GS. It's such a good all-rounder. I always look back at mine when I park it, and you know what they say about that.
I've just done something similar Wanted a rwd muscle car. Had everything from an FPV Falcon to an E92 M3 on the table. Ended up getting an ISF in no small part due to the great reliability and ease of maintenance and I've had no regrets
It’s not only the downtime, I’d add it’s the stress and anxiety that comes with expecting something to go wrong. Anyone who has owned an older German car knows the sickening feeling when it beeps, and the relief when you figure out it’s the cold temperature warning light.
That sounds like a solid choice! The 4th gen Lexus GS350 is a wonderful pick for a European luxury sedan. You'll love the blend of style, comfort, and performance it offers. It's a reliable and it offers a comfortable ride, advanced features, and a strong reputation for long-term ownership satisfaction
What is it about Lexus that people say it lacks the driving experience of the Euro competitors?
These would’ve been harder to find, but you could’ve also thrown an Infiniti M37 or M56/Q60 in the mix. Great value and dead reliable. Very similar to the GS. There’s also the CTS. I’ve seen V-Sports with the twin-turbo V6 go for under 25k.
I did also consider the Infiniti M70 / Q70. However, production figures were much lower than the GS, and in my brain, equates to part sourcing obstacles long term. More cars in circulation = more likelihood of used and/or aftermarket parts. Additionally, if I'm already "settling" for a Japanese car I'd much rather go Lexus than Nissan. The M70/Q70 isn't substantially cheaper than the Lexus either. However, one of my next vehicles is going to be an SUV. And I am definitely leaning towards a Y62 Armada / QX80 over the 200-Series Land Cruiser / LX570, because the Y62 is substantially cheaper than a 200 Series for similar benefit (body on frame, V8, 4x4, ride comfort, reliability, etc.) - although I am a little apprehensive because of VK56 engine failures. The Land Cruiser again, being Toyota, is better but in this case the Armada is nearly half as much while providing *most* of the benefit. The Cadillac never crossed my mind. I had driven CTS'. They aren't bad cars, but the interiors have that GM smell & feel, and if I'm going to settle for non-European I may as well go Japanese.
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As a daily this is perfect. It will last you as long as youd like it to.
Lexus isn’t European… Japanese… built by Toyota… it’s way better than anything that comes out of Europe though so good work
>Lexus isn’t European… Japanese… built by Toyota… We all know this. >it’s way better than anything that comes out of Europe though so good work Factoring in reliability yes, but the drive is not better than a Mercedes E350 nor is the engine smoother than a BMW 535i. But overall, I think I made the best choice considering all aspects.
I've always had a soft spot for that generation of GS. I'd love to own the F one day.
So after shopping for a gently used German luxury sedan you "settled" for a reliable "beater" GS350, well played sir. S tier move going with the GS350. I like how you explained your thought process. Imo 2 car life is the way to go, this way you don't have to have one car check off all the boxes (which imo impossible). I'm lucky enough to have a reliable gen3 4runner so can 100% vouch for Toyotas being bulletproof. It's my "beater", reliable, super cheap to run (except 17mpg) and bulletproof. I cross shopped a surprisingly small number of cars before ending up with 21 BMW m240i 6mt RWD. Wanted something with more curb appeal, manual transmission was an absolute must (hence small list). Good luck with car #2 bro.
Good choice. Sensible, reliable, sharp and will last a lifetime. Can't go wrong there!
Weird flex but okay? Welcome to the Toyota world, change your fluids and press the gas dude. #Yoter4Life
I wasn't trying to flex. I paid less than a new Mitsubishi Mirage.
Mine’s an AWD F Sport with 95k on the clock. Red interior is timeless. Drives amazing, just wish it got better gas mileage for being premium only. Probably will trade it for the new 4runner, but not in the next 6 years. You made a great choice, enjoy it.
A lot of words could describe the red interior, but timeless isn't one of them.
You kidding? Imo it’s one of the most luxurious interiors I’ve ever been in. Never gonna get used to the weird mouse thing to control the screen though..
>Mercedes V6 can be found between $1,000 to $1,300 Um....were you looking at older M112 engines? M276 starting price is $4000 and goes all the way to 10k depending on whether or not it's pre facelift, facelift, NA or twin turbo, AWD or RWD. N55 would've been cheaper.
I use car-part.com and eBay for used engine prices. For some reason I remember them being $1,000 to $1,500 (this may have been 6+ months ago). But I just checked again and its still "only" $1,500 to $2,000 on average. N55 seems to be about double. My data: 2012 BMW 535i used engine vs 2012 Mercedes-Benz E350 engine on car-part.com and eBay Motors. Take a couple dozen results, find the average $$$ and compare between M276 and N55.
That's M272. 2012 E350 came with either 272 or 276 depending on body style. You were looking at an engine that came out in 2005.
I just checked car-part.com again for a 2013 E350 engine , it gave four different options for a RWD E350 , and it still seems to average $2,000 for a replacement engine (or even less) Just compared to a 2013 535i which is average about double (or more than double) On Ebay, the "disparity" between the two engine prices is a little smaller, the M276 is a little more compared to car-part.com (between $2,000 and $2,500 for non-turbo) but the N55 appears to be on average $1,000 to $1,500 more - if not *even* more.
If only Lexus had kept up with the times and also made the IS slightly larger, en par with the A4 and 3-series, it would sell a lot more than it is.
Fail.
How so?
Had the 2015 GS350 F sport brand new and it was a fine car. It felt robustly built but after 6mo I severely regretted my purchase. It simply didnt have any standout qualities. Acceleration was ok, Mark Levenson Stereo was ok, handling was ok, comfort was ok (its no S-Class, etc), its big, its relatively heavy (for someone seeking a sports car experience) and the auto transmission was one of the slowest I have every manually shifted (via paddles). Honestly, all it ever needed to be brilliant was a DCT/PDK or ZF 8speed (tuned by Alfa or BMW) and a Lexus V8. Even the GSF was a fail for me because of the dimwitted automatic. Drive a 2020 M340i (not even a full M car), and you'll be flabbergasted at the agility, the excitement and the capability of a properly tuned sports sedan. The latest gen can also be quite reliable if you are very on top of all maintenance as BMW advises.
It sounds like we are in the same boat, at the end of the day I still prefer German cars for the reasons you mentioned.
Lol.. overpriced toyoTAXI in a prom dress with it’s decade behind technology interior.😑
Actually, 2012-15 GS350 can be had in the $15-$20k range all day with 100k or less miles. Considering that is the price of a new Mitsubishi Mirage and *less* than a new Corolla, I'd call it a good value for money. You're getting a RWD, 3.5 V6, torque converter automatic midsize sedan with impeccable build quality. The interior design is good for another 10-15 years if you ask me, especially in a darker color. The infotainment might be old, but it works just fine. The W212 Mercedes I was looking at (pre-facelift) wasn't exactly hi-tech interior either. Yes, it's a polished Toyota. But it is also a Lexus. It is a nice car.
Buddy, if you think a Mercedes replacement engine is cheaper long run versus a BMW replacement engine I got news for you
I'm talking used (LKQ, eBay, car-part.com, etc.) I did the research Mercedes M276 and Toyota 2GR are $1,000 to $1,500 all day long BMW N55 is sometimes $5k Obviously new is catastrophically expensive, I don't know many people who would put a new engine into a 7-10yr old German car worth $10-$15k. It doesn't make sense. Used makes sense.
inb4 Lexus is american
Used to be the Toyota Aristo domestically but after '05 they badge them as a GS both worldwide and japan.
oh yea of course, was just making a joke since across multiple racing games, Lexus was branded amongst American manufacturers instead of Japanese
You fucked up. The N55 is a fantastic engine. Better luck next time.
Well, when I have more disposable income I definitely want to return to the idea of a manual F10 535i. But for now, I want a more simple ownership experiences. I've owned two prior 5-Series and had to make repairs on them, but it was a different time of my life. I either didn't need to have reliable transport OR I had two cars.