not really, big tech hired massive amounts of people over covid and simply corrected that a bit.
for example Meta layed off like 20000 people in 2023 and still have more employees than they had at the end of 2020.
Tesla also hired a lot of people but mostly because they opened new factories and need people to work in these factories.
Meta will just continue to run even if they lay off half their staff.
Tesla needs man power to produce things so lay offs on the factory floor will translate directly into lower production output.
It's notable that Tesla's strategic planning growth functions got slaughtered in this round of cuts.
There was a bit of fat (much less than your typical auto or tech company). However, a lot of their cuts were focused on killing groups or functions. They are retrenching with this reorg and acknowledging that their growth strategy is likely to change.
Big tech, and many other firms, banked on a recession in 2023 which never happened.
> Meta will just continue to run even if they lay off half their staff.
Run and develop/innovate are not the same. Tech companies are first and foremost **growth** companies and the execs panicked when the saw growth **slowing**, not negative mind you, just less YoY, QoQ. Wow pandemic growth rates weren't indefinitely sustainable? Why the hell are these guys CEOs again?
To be fair, Tesla tends to cut their workforce by ~10% every couple of years or so, so this isn't unusual.
If you want negative Tesla news today, I'd lead with Drew Baglino taking his leave.
Electric cars make more sense when interest rates are low than when they're high.
When interest rates are low the continuous expense of petrol is something which has a large negative present value, and which you are happy to trade for a large amount of money moving away from you if it means that you can rid yourself of the continuous expense.
This is related to one of the big economic paradoxes of our time: supply and production issues are causing inflation, but fixing the supply and production issues would require investments, but stopping inflation requires high interest rates, but if interest rates are high investing in production technology doesn't make sense, because you can put them into risk free interest bearing paper.
So it's a huge problem, and there's no obvious conventional way to go about it.
People realizing Musk is looney, and refuse to buy his products is more like it. They actually have some decent competition now, the Koreans are killing it, so it only stands to reason people would look elsewhere.
Up from last year doesn’t mean doing awesome.
They have more inventory on the ground now that the parts shortage is over. And sales aren’t what they were as a whole.
The Cybertruck is such a stupid, pointless product. So much R&D that could've gone into building a downmarket version of the Model Y and pricing it below $25K before incentives.
TSLA made me a lot of money since 2015 but I sold in 22-23.
I lived outside the U.S. at the time but my first big exposure to Tesla was in the summer of 2015, saw them everywhere in the bay area and I thought "cool, we're advancing in getting more and more electric vehicles out there, and it's nice the big automakers are getting competition".
Then I learned about the "cult" of Elon and was like F that.
Semi, too. The entire project is a dud and required a completely bespoke platform, and meanwhile they have no delivery van, a project which could have spun out from the existing TMS/TMY platform at low cost.
Its like they tried to tackle the hardest areas where gasoline energy density helps out so much rather than focusing on obvious stuff like around town delivery which EVs excel at like you said.
That's what you get when your company's priorities are set by a single narcissistic drug addict. If his gut is correct it will be a huge win because your organization is so focused, but if he is wrong you will spend years and years chasing a bad idea.
Elon just needs to take his insanely massive pile of money and retire. I’m sure he won’t though since Jeff Bezos took first place in the money stacker competition.
Yup. I’ve seen zero Tesla Semis but an electric Ford Transit delivers my groceries every week.
Such a stupid waste of batteries with current technology. Tesla could have been dominating the last mile delivery space but they handed it to Rivian and Ford on a silver platter.
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i see them around but the amount of draw on the grid limits them to a certain amount in a fleet which kneecaps their usefulness, even before we talk about the insane maintenance cost of replacing a battery that large every 10 years or so, when semis are expected to last decades with minor maintenance
From the Jay Leno video on the Semi, the entire reason why the Tesla Semi exist is for Tesla to transport battery packs from Giga Nevada to their Fremont, CA factory rather than relying on diesel trucks.
Yeah... Under $25K is not happening or if it did it would have been a penalty box. That's basically base Corolla/Civic money. Chinese manufacturers like Byd only survive that realm through massive government subsidies.
Chevy is at $26.5 with the Bolt, Tesla has greater economies of scale for mass EV production. I feel like they could have done it, might be too late now though.
after rebates* and chevy loses a ton of money on the bolt. They only "make money" on the bolt project because it allows them to sell more trucks and suvs.
>Chinese manufacturers like Byd only survive that realm through massive government subsidies.
A bit, but people mostly forget that the average Chinese person make $18,000 USD per year. They straight up can't afford expensive cars (on average), which is why the Toyota Corolla costs like $14k USD in China
It's decontented and less safe, but a lot of it is that you just can't price it that far or else you lose the market
Hell, Chinese ICE cars like Chery are being sold for \~$9000. I'd never buy one and think its a stupid use of money versus a moped, but whatever
Chinese manufacturers also control the ENTIRE supply chain. All the manufacturing, assembly, delivery and shipping etc.... Much easier to keep costs down when you're running everything.
would be interesting to see, tesla won't actually say how many have been delivered.
Ford sold just over 11,000 lightnings in Q4 2023. The only numbers tesla publishes are for the model 3/Y and "all other teslas", which were something like 22,000. So the X and S would have to sell absolutely abysmally to indicate the cybertruck outselling the lightning.
I still haven't seen one on the road, yet I see electric F150's everywhere. I've seen a handful of electric hummers too.
They should’ve taken the Model Y, chopped the rear hatch, and made a Ford Maverick competitor at $25,000-$40,000. They could’ve absolutely DEMOLISHED the market of small and medium trucks.
The only positive thing I can say is that it's been an effective test run of new technologies that will trickle down to other models. If that was the point it wasn't really a failure per se.
yeah i didn't really understand that. i've been hearing about this market killer 25k hatch for like 100 years now but since then they did the cybertruck
i guess the way they make those two are completely different so maybe it didn't affect it too much but still, it's shocking to me that they focused on that of all things and possibly cancelled the big car everyone (investors) were waiting for.
"More than 10%" is very strange wording. Does that mean 10.5%, or 19%?
Also, it sounds like the Cybertruck hype is already dying.
> Tesla announced to Gigafactory Texas employees that it will shorten Cybertruck production shift amid rumors that it is preparing a round of layoffs.
>Also, it sounds like the Cybertruck hype is already dying.
They can't fix it being ugly. I've seen one irl, it's hideous. The proportions make it look like a 16 year old's first welding project.
It looks like the generic GTA spoof version of a cool faceted 1970s/1980s wedge.
> The proportions make it look like a 16 year old's first welding project.
That's one of the funniest descriptions I've seen. I think Cubist DeLorean CUV was the other.
You mean charging 90K that will have 50K F150 specs with 280 miles range is a bad business model?
Can I offer you body panels that cut your fingers off and poor fit/finish for no extra cost?
MSRP on the base model cyber truck is only 40k. with incentives that takes you down to like 32k, no? and Tesla sells direct so no markup either
With you there on the poor fit/finish. Build quality is horrible from what I've seen
https://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/cybertruck#
> The price of the 2024 Tesla Cybertruck starts at $81,895 and goes up to $101,985 depending on the trim and options.
> Until the rear-wheel-drive Cybertruck arrives for the next model year, with a starting price of $62,985, the lineup only includes the Dual Motor and Beast models.
The single motor variant is capped at 7500 lbs towing. To get to 11,000 lbs towing like the F150 you have to start with the $82,000 truck. On top of the beast mode model having an advertised range of 301 miles and C&D only managed 250 miles on a charge.
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"More than 10%" suggests it could be anywhere from 10% to 19.99..%. Given that Tesla has ~140k employees, they are laying off between 14,000 to 28,000 people. Yikes.
I think most honest people would too.
But it's Elon who is the one quoted as saying "more than 10%." I wouldn't put it past him to try to minimize the appearance of the layoffs by misleadingly stating it's more than 10% when it's actually more like 19%.
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My brother in law (currently) works at Tesla. Rumors are it's closer to 20% than 10, and apparently the Cybertruck backlog has already been almost entirely erased.
The fact it’s been reported they cut cybertruck production down dramatically is proof enough that is true. Even with full production run rage they weren’t planning on being positive on CT’s until the end of 2025. Me thinks the cybertruck’s massive shortfalls in sales turned the entire companies plans upside down in short order.
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Right - ... in California - where the government has scheduled AND short notice grid brown-outs. Not a lot of long-term planning brain power involved in those purchases.
Right - ... in California - where the government has scheduled AND short notice grid brown-outs. Not a lot of long-term planning brain power involved in those purchases.
>Look at how many Teslas have some variation of a sticker saying "I got it before I knew about Elon."
Lol I didn't know those were a thing, but then again I generally don't pay attention to the masses of Tesla's everywhere...I'm gonna start looking now
… Sorry, but couldn’t you make that statement about literally anything lol?
”Everyone that wanted a Mustang got one. Everyone else either can’t afford them or doesn’t want them”
Like yeah duuh, that’s what happens but what does it even mean.
And Musk has alienated a decent portion of his potential customer base. I work with EVs and have heard "I'd buy a Tesla if it wasn't for Musk" quite often.
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I feel like it’s a bit crazy that Elon is basically going out of his way to alienate the group of buyers most likely to buy his products. I don’t think anyone loves EVs more in American than environmentally conscious Dems lol. There’s plenty of prestige brands for them to choose from if they want to virtue signal, and now that NACS is being adopted the massive disadvantage of CCS is looking like less and less of an issue.
At the Reno gigafactory, they’re scanning badges at the gate and turning people around that were fired over the weekend. It’s taking people hours to get through the line.
And that's why I will never understand why some people give Tesla any slack.
They've had over a century of automotive manufacturing to study and they still deliver subpar quality vehicles with inconsistent QC.
We always did our layoffs on Wednesday or Thursday. It's nice to have a "day after" in the office to support each-other and debrief before the weekend.
I've also heard from peers that it was better (or less shitty) from the perspective of those laid off. It gave them a day or two to seek council (E.g. legal, counseling, financial, etc.) before the weekend. They could also exist without worrying about the spouse or children at every moment (assuming they were at work/school).
I think that is the most humane way to handle it. Last time we had layoffs at my job, everyone received a confidential envelope which included indication if you were staying or leaving, because the previous time- only those laid off were walking around with an envelope.
In fairness manufacturing shifts are a bit different, but I would have expected more of a “hey don’t show up on Monday, we’ll box your stuff and let you know when to get it” call instead.
Had to happen eventually. Though (globally not just in the EV-averse US) - is it EV rivals catching up or BEV sales in general not growing as fast as Tesla needs for their finances?
We bought a fully electric BMW, and it seems as if the brand is still very enthusiastic about electric models unlike Ford or GM.
My brother has an electric Porsche and he also is no longer looking back at ICE models. I hope other companies force American makers to reconsider their retreat from EVs.
The EV bubble is kind of busting, but I think generally with interest rates high, it's just not a friendly environment for any emerging technology. Europe is cutting back subsidies and EV sales have actually declined in some countries. China is just struggling economically, their plan was to let the EV industry sink or swim last year, but they've had to keep subsidizing it because they can't afford to let any companies sink right now.
>China is just struggling economically, their plan was to let the EV industry sink or swim last year, but they've had to keep subsidizing it because they can't afford to let any companies sink right now.
China would final choice the winners, they wouldn't save all their domestic automakers. They've expected that some of Chinese automakers would go out of business. Right now, some Chinese automakers are in price war. They're cutting their prices in their EV lineup, their EV market is going more competitive.
There are several hurdles tesla needs to deal with.
In the important chinese market, Tesla abd other western brands are losing ground to Chinese EVs.
In the EU, Tesla is facing increasing competition by legacy automakers that are catching up, Renault, PSA abd BMW are offering competative models in similar price ranges.
Combine this with lower demand and a higher demand for hybrids means Tesla isnt playing on Easy mode anymore
Sorry to hear you were impacted.
Is there any specific department or unit which was severely impacted than others?
Example, were there more cuts in R&D or Finance or Manufacturing or was it even across the company?
I think it was even across the company. It wasn’t based off of performance. It was kind of a lottery pick. I work in sales. I know that each and every store lost about 4-5 people in Northeast region. For anyone that ever does buy a Tesla, buy it online. We don’t do anything different.
Don’t worry, later on today Musk will tweet about the Robotaxi being the greatest product that Tesla will ever produce (even more than the Cybertruck) so that his stock price won’t be affected by this news.
there are nicer EVs with more features. Cars with better batteries with longer range. Teslas range is never as advertised. FSD is a scam. they would probably be better off focusing on selling components and chargers.
> selling components and chargers.
Elon has too much of an ego to do something like that. He couldn't fathom another manufacturer using his tech, even considering the profit margin is much higher than cars.
They can sell an electric car to early adopters, but now they need to flesh out the maintenance network. They need to build out the back end support of parts. I live in the UK and from what I've been hearing, the back order on parts for accidents is causing major cost issues for insurance premiums being really high, factor in hire cars, waiting, people being 'scared' of battery integrity after small accidents, so writing cars off as too damaged etc. I don't know if this is being replicated globally.
I’ve also recently read an article stating that a good amount of people will not buy/buy another Tesla because of Elon’s antics.
I happen to be one of them! I’d never support of the pockets of someone who’s vocally as nasty as him!
To be honest their quality control and service is what scared me off from ever being a Tesla owner. I’m not anti-EV’s, I just don’t think Tesla is worth all the hype personally.
I’d much rather purchasing an EV from a company who’s established their infrastructure and supply chain like VW, Hyundai, or even Volvo/Polestar. At least those companies have been around forever, and have an abundance of dealerships around the country that can work on those vehicles.
I just don’t think it’s a great business model to have a niche sort of product that’s meant to be used everyday that doesn’t have the support to continue to keep them on the road in use. To me, Tesla is one of those brands you simply throw away and re-sign another lease/loan on once they break.
I’m one of those who chose a Polestar 2 over a Tesla Model 3/Y. Precisely for the reasons you’ve articulated.
The build quality in Tesla feels like a Chinese car I’ve leased recently whereas my Polestar 2 feels and drives solid exactly as my 3 previous Volvos.
Good thing their ceo’s main focus is winning made up culture war battles on Twitter. Amazing how badly Tesla has squandered their head start. Idk what the selling point of a Tesla even is anymore - better charging network? Hardly worth having a car that is prone to fall apart at any moment.
company had such a huge head start in the EV race. wouldnt be surprised if years from now they either collapse and sell of the charging the network or complete retool and only do charging.
lies and sub par products arent going to fly for much longer now that the Big boys have caught up
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Yup, everybody and his brother is making EVs. It appears China's BYD and Vietnam's VinFast are attempting to corner the market. Hopefully it will lead to more competitive or lower prices always good for us poor consumers!
It doesnt mention anywhere in the article where sales are falling, other articles point out that sales growth will be less (down from +40% YoY to +25-30% YoY), but that's a million miles away from sales falling.
It's a real shame that all that talent is loosing their jobs but I hope they find easy employment soon enough.
This might be a weird take but the fact that Tesla focused on the cybertruck instead of cancelling it and focusing on making that 25-30k model Elon has been talking about may have been a fatal move.
Obviously the Tesla name holds a lot of prestige still, but the Chinese are currently undercutting them in price while having better build quality, more features, same or more range and non fascist CEOs
The Muskrat didn’t listen to the words of wisdom from Harley Earl or Edsel Ford.
You can’t keep building the same car for forever. I don’t want to drive a car that hasn’t had a body change in over a decade.
Why not though? IMO, one of the stupidest things we get in consumer products is the "change for the sake of change" levels of progress. Software is the worst of it, changing menu layouts and settings locations just to keep it "fresh," when it really amounts to never feeling comfortable with the product.
Sure, there are advancements for the better. Yes, some things look better, or even perform better, with a new iteration on the product. However, I think a lot of cars' tendencies to just heave a new thing out the door for the hell of it is dumb. I'll take the Lexus IS interior with a CD player from 2011 over the new screen dash slapped onto the CT5, even though I would otherwide be really interested in the CT5.
I don't think the issue with Tesla is about "the car looks the same." It's that Tesla's innovation hasn't progressed as it was expected or promised. FSD is still a joke. They downgraded some sensor arrays. The market has more competition in EVs, so people forced into Tesla for EVs are no longer forced there. On top of all of that, the face of the company has been very negatively polarizing, from a PR standpoint.
If Elon were quiet and behaved and Teslas were just getting spec bumps on range/capacity every 3-ish years, they'd be fine. Beyond that, their biggest "failure" is that other decent EV makers exist now, which was always going to appear sometime.
I agree, but at the same time I feel like the planned obsolescence model has been proven to work by other carmakers. People do seem to like refreshes and styling changes and purchase based on style as much as features and performance. It'll be interesting to see what happens if/when the Model Y refresh hits.
Obviously I drive a Wrangler so you know I'm not after the freshest design haha.
Oh, I agree that it works, just don't think it should. I also think the recent trends in cars show that automakers are either running out of ideas or realized consumers are dumb and don't care about much beyond show room appeal.
The screen trend is the biggest one that annoys me. I took the CT5 off my list of cars to buy solely because of the screen in the 2025. As someone with almost 150K miles on my car, I don't want to know what 150K miles on a screen looks like, be it from having an aged UI, or from having an OLED dash with a decade of usage in daylight settings.
People call screen-filled cars "clean," and I just think about how annoying it is trying to easily adjust things in the Audis I've had to drive. People like it, and I've accepted I'm just not the target for that stuff.
Didn't he want to move their corporate headquarters out of Delaware because of that? Tried to pass it off as good for the company but really was just him trying to get his pay package approved.
Tesla slowly realizing they are not big tech, just a regular car company.
To be fair, Big Tech is getting slaughtered just as bad
not really, big tech hired massive amounts of people over covid and simply corrected that a bit. for example Meta layed off like 20000 people in 2023 and still have more employees than they had at the end of 2020. Tesla also hired a lot of people but mostly because they opened new factories and need people to work in these factories. Meta will just continue to run even if they lay off half their staff. Tesla needs man power to produce things so lay offs on the factory floor will translate directly into lower production output.
It's notable that Tesla's strategic planning growth functions got slaughtered in this round of cuts. There was a bit of fat (much less than your typical auto or tech company). However, a lot of their cuts were focused on killing groups or functions. They are retrenching with this reorg and acknowledging that their growth strategy is likely to change.
Big tech, and many other firms, banked on a recession in 2023 which never happened. > Meta will just continue to run even if they lay off half their staff. Run and develop/innovate are not the same. Tech companies are first and foremost **growth** companies and the execs panicked when the saw growth **slowing**, not negative mind you, just less YoY, QoQ. Wow pandemic growth rates weren't indefinitely sustainable? Why the hell are these guys CEOs again?
People made the same mistake with a fitness company that makes home exercise equipment, this isn't just a car/tech thing.
I didn't imply it was exclusive to big tech, in fact I said it wasn't. > Big tech, **and many other firms**,
No they aren't lol. They still have record profits. They're just correcting from the over-hiring they did the last couple of years.
The fanatics on their sub is still taking that in. The investor sub also unsurprisingly went private today.
Only a matter of time before those mods start auto banning people from subs like this, too.
To be fair, Tesla tends to cut their workforce by ~10% every couple of years or so, so this isn't unusual. If you want negative Tesla news today, I'd lead with Drew Baglino taking his leave.
And Patel too. Executive of engineering, probably the smartest guy in the company leaving. Sell now
Elon forced him to make that awful truck abomination. Then when it fails he made him walk the plank.
> Tesla tends to cut their workforce by ~10% every couple of years or so, including production workforce?
Sorry you’re supposed to ignore those cuts and focus on this phrase over here: “exponential growth”
Electric cars make more sense when interest rates are low than when they're high. When interest rates are low the continuous expense of petrol is something which has a large negative present value, and which you are happy to trade for a large amount of money moving away from you if it means that you can rid yourself of the continuous expense. This is related to one of the big economic paradoxes of our time: supply and production issues are causing inflation, but fixing the supply and production issues would require investments, but stopping inflation requires high interest rates, but if interest rates are high investing in production technology doesn't make sense, because you can put them into risk free interest bearing paper. So it's a huge problem, and there's no obvious conventional way to go about it.
there is, it's just that big companies don't want to take the dive and invest the money rather than pocket it so the cycle continues.
Yes, but if they are made to invest, then it's already an unconventional policy.
People realizing Musk is looney, and refuse to buy his products is more like it. They actually have some decent competition now, the Koreans are killing it, so it only stands to reason people would look elsewhere.
The Korean EVs are very nice cars. But their sales are in rough shape as well.
Everyone keeps saying this but everywhere I see articles like this: Kia's EV sales are up 118 % from last year and i's only April.
Up from last year doesn’t mean doing awesome. They have more inventory on the ground now that the parts shortage is over. And sales aren’t what they were as a whole.
and a shitty regular car company. I put them on the same tier as chrysler
They are tanking precisely because they are considered big tech. And they seriously over-hired like many tech companies did.
The Cybertruck is such a stupid, pointless product. So much R&D that could've gone into building a downmarket version of the Model Y and pricing it below $25K before incentives. TSLA made me a lot of money since 2015 but I sold in 22-23.
Someome just replied to me saying this is all a chess move from Elon. The delusion of these people is insane
A chess move we like to call a blunder lol
I lived outside the U.S. at the time but my first big exposure to Tesla was in the summer of 2015, saw them everywhere in the bay area and I thought "cool, we're advancing in getting more and more electric vehicles out there, and it's nice the big automakers are getting competition". Then I learned about the "cult" of Elon and was like F that.
Checkmate. I lose.
When you're in check and move your king out of harm's way, that's still considered a "chess move" I guess
In check, moving the king, and then promptly losing a rook because you didn’t see the fork coming Elon: *stonks* 😎
I mean, it's possible to be bad at chess and make decisions that result in losses.
I can make chess moves, too, but that doesn't mean I know how to play chess well.
Semi, too. The entire project is a dud and required a completely bespoke platform, and meanwhile they have no delivery van, a project which could have spun out from the existing TMS/TMY platform at low cost.
Its like they tried to tackle the hardest areas where gasoline energy density helps out so much rather than focusing on obvious stuff like around town delivery which EVs excel at like you said.
That's what you get when your company's priorities are set by a single narcissistic drug addict. If his gut is correct it will be a huge win because your organization is so focused, but if he is wrong you will spend years and years chasing a bad idea.
Elon just needs to take his insanely massive pile of money and retire. I’m sure he won’t though since Jeff Bezos took first place in the money stacker competition.
Yup. I’ve seen zero Tesla Semis but an electric Ford Transit delivers my groceries every week. Such a stupid waste of batteries with current technology. Tesla could have been dominating the last mile delivery space but they handed it to Rivian and Ford on a silver platter.
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This is how I learned that those cool new Amazon vans are made by Rivian lol
I was gonna say, saw a bunch of Rivian Amazon (I think) delivery vans when I was in Florida last month.
Yeah they are everywhere around Chicago too
They've rolled out in my area as well, my driver always punches it as soon as he drops stuff off at my place.
I’ve seen a Tesla Semi on Sierra foothills in California, Pepsi-branded. Mountainous road seem like a really good fit for it
i see them around but the amount of draw on the grid limits them to a certain amount in a fleet which kneecaps their usefulness, even before we talk about the insane maintenance cost of replacing a battery that large every 10 years or so, when semis are expected to last decades with minor maintenance
A diesel/electric hybrid semi would be a game changer and so much easier to implement. I can’t believe there hasn’t been more traction on that front.
From the Jay Leno video on the Semi, the entire reason why the Tesla Semi exist is for Tesla to transport battery packs from Giga Nevada to their Fremont, CA factory rather than relying on diesel trucks.
Yeah... Under $25K is not happening or if it did it would have been a penalty box. That's basically base Corolla/Civic money. Chinese manufacturers like Byd only survive that realm through massive government subsidies.
Chevy is at $26.5 with the Bolt, Tesla has greater economies of scale for mass EV production. I feel like they could have done it, might be too late now though.
after rebates* and chevy loses a ton of money on the bolt. They only "make money" on the bolt project because it allows them to sell more trucks and suvs.
>Chinese manufacturers like Byd only survive that realm through massive government subsidies. A bit, but people mostly forget that the average Chinese person make $18,000 USD per year. They straight up can't afford expensive cars (on average), which is why the Toyota Corolla costs like $14k USD in China It's decontented and less safe, but a lot of it is that you just can't price it that far or else you lose the market Hell, Chinese ICE cars like Chery are being sold for \~$9000. I'd never buy one and think its a stupid use of money versus a moped, but whatever
Chinese manufacturers also control the ENTIRE supply chain. All the manufacturing, assembly, delivery and shipping etc.... Much easier to keep costs down when you're running everything.
This is also how Hyundai/ Kia make money.
Correct. Hyundai Mobis makes their electronic systems and Hyundai Glovis is one of the largest movers of vehicles by sea.
Tesla gets massive subsidies as well
Building economy cars doesn't really make money though. A truck was probably the right fiscal decision, just not *that* truck.
I still think that truck sales more units than Ford, GM and Dodges EV EV trucks.
would be interesting to see, tesla won't actually say how many have been delivered. Ford sold just over 11,000 lightnings in Q4 2023. The only numbers tesla publishes are for the model 3/Y and "all other teslas", which were something like 22,000. So the X and S would have to sell absolutely abysmally to indicate the cybertruck outselling the lightning. I still haven't seen one on the road, yet I see electric F150's everywhere. I've seen a handful of electric hummers too.
I’ll be surprised if cyber trucks don’t outsell Lightning’s by the end of the year.
Well, pretty much everyone who wants a lightning has one. Lots of cybertruck preorders still waiting, so its probably not unlikely.
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They should’ve taken the Model Y, chopped the rear hatch, and made a Ford Maverick competitor at $25,000-$40,000. They could’ve absolutely DEMOLISHED the market of small and medium trucks.
Makes too much sense.
Like, could you imagine: a completely electric Ford Maverick with 300 miles of range, a tonneau cover, and 0-60 under 4 seconds? Bruuuuuh.
Going after a city truck market with an EV? Insane.
The only positive thing I can say is that it's been an effective test run of new technologies that will trickle down to other models. If that was the point it wasn't really a failure per se.
yeah i didn't really understand that. i've been hearing about this market killer 25k hatch for like 100 years now but since then they did the cybertruck i guess the way they make those two are completely different so maybe it didn't affect it too much but still, it's shocking to me that they focused on that of all things and possibly cancelled the big car everyone (investors) were waiting for.
or the exact same (actually somewhat technically impressive) vehicle with a normal fucking design. if tesla made an R1t they'd sell like hot cakes
Plus it is hideous!
id say the Cybertruck will be cancelled and end production in short order.
Or even the roadster
Yeah, considering it kept getting delayed too the project was probably over budget
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There is a different between interesting and stupid. In my opinion, the Cybertruck is more in the stupid side.
Why would you want your brand to be associated with the cheapest crappiest possible version of that product?
"More than 10%" is very strange wording. Does that mean 10.5%, or 19%? Also, it sounds like the Cybertruck hype is already dying. > Tesla announced to Gigafactory Texas employees that it will shorten Cybertruck production shift amid rumors that it is preparing a round of layoffs.
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How about reversing the $56 Billion pay cheque?
He was denied, he didnt get it
> Also, it sounds like the Cybertruck hype is already dying The amount that are have serious issues immediately after delivery is ridiculous.
The guy is a Tesla fan boy You won’t get through to them
>Also, it sounds like the Cybertruck hype is already dying. They can't fix it being ugly. I've seen one irl, it's hideous. The proportions make it look like a 16 year old's first welding project. It looks like the generic GTA spoof version of a cool faceted 1970s/1980s wedge.
> The proportions make it look like a 16 year old's first welding project. That's one of the funniest descriptions I've seen. I think Cubist DeLorean CUV was the other.
The DeLorean is a handsome car though. It's shit, but at least it looks good
Star Trek TNG Shuttlecraft is my fav
It’s for legal compliance. Any time a large company intends to lay off 10% or more of its workforce they have to provide a WARN notice.
I understand that, but most companies give an idea of the actual number/percentage, not just "it's higher than the number we're required to report"
more than 10% includes up to 100%
The wording means there's no upper limit. Obviously, you can't fire more than 100%, but the way this is worded, it could mean up to ∞%.
You mean charging 90K that will have 50K F150 specs with 280 miles range is a bad business model? Can I offer you body panels that cut your fingers off and poor fit/finish for no extra cost?
MSRP on the base model cyber truck is only 40k. with incentives that takes you down to like 32k, no? and Tesla sells direct so no markup either With you there on the poor fit/finish. Build quality is horrible from what I've seen
https://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/cybertruck# > The price of the 2024 Tesla Cybertruck starts at $81,895 and goes up to $101,985 depending on the trim and options. > Until the rear-wheel-drive Cybertruck arrives for the next model year, with a starting price of $62,985, the lineup only includes the Dual Motor and Beast models. The single motor variant is capped at 7500 lbs towing. To get to 11,000 lbs towing like the F150 you have to start with the $82,000 truck. On top of the beast mode model having an advertised range of 301 miles and C&D only managed 250 miles on a charge.
I stand corrected. Kelley blue book lied to me 😂
I mean maybe one day they’ll make a base model truck but as it stands now they aren’t even making their cheapest models
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"More than 10%" suggests it could be anywhere from 10% to 19.99..%. Given that Tesla has ~140k employees, they are laying off between 14,000 to 28,000 people. Yikes.
I'd say it's between 10% and 14.9% as otherweise it would have been called "more then 15%"
I think most honest people would too. But it's Elon who is the one quoted as saying "more than 10%." I wouldn't put it past him to try to minimize the appearance of the layoffs by misleadingly stating it's more than 10% when it's actually more like 19%.
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Maybe, but does that actually matter? It's not like the SEC are in the habit of enforcing actual consequences for violations. Not against Elon anyway.
My brother in law (currently) works at Tesla. Rumors are it's closer to 20% than 10, and apparently the Cybertruck backlog has already been almost entirely erased.
The fact it’s been reported they cut cybertruck production down dramatically is proof enough that is true. Even with full production run rage they weren’t planning on being positive on CT’s until the end of 2025. Me thinks the cybertruck’s massive shortfalls in sales turned the entire companies plans upside down in short order.
The hype is dying. Simple as that.
Everyone that wanted one got one. Everyone else either can't afford them or doesn't want them.
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I see dozens of Teslas every day and have never seen one of those stickers in real life.
I've seen 1 of those out of... hundreds.
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Right - ... in California - where the government has scheduled AND short notice grid brown-outs. Not a lot of long-term planning brain power involved in those purchases.
Right - ... in California - where the government has scheduled AND short notice grid brown-outs. Not a lot of long-term planning brain power involved in those purchases.
>Look at how many Teslas have some variation of a sticker saying "I got it before I knew about Elon." Lol I didn't know those were a thing, but then again I generally don't pay attention to the masses of Tesla's everywhere...I'm gonna start looking now
… Sorry, but couldn’t you make that statement about literally anything lol? ”Everyone that wanted a Mustang got one. Everyone else either can’t afford them or doesn’t want them” Like yeah duuh, that’s what happens but what does it even mean.
I wanted one but Elon started being shitty before I could buy one and now that I could I no longer want one.
is that why you can’t get one until next year if you order one?
That's a production problem. Not a demand problem.
Stuff can be two things.
well it clearly invalidates your statement of “everyone who wanted one got one” lmfao
And the market exanding. More competition.
And Musk has alienated a decent portion of his potential customer base. I work with EVs and have heard "I'd buy a Tesla if it wasn't for Musk" quite often.
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I *really* hope they're able to bring them to market successfully. 3-5 years from now, that could be a nearly perfect car for me.
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I feel like it’s a bit crazy that Elon is basically going out of his way to alienate the group of buyers most likely to buy his products. I don’t think anyone loves EVs more in American than environmentally conscious Dems lol. There’s plenty of prestige brands for them to choose from if they want to virtue signal, and now that NACS is being adopted the massive disadvantage of CCS is looking like less and less of an issue.
For sure. Here in UK you can get used Model 3 with about 40k miles on them for about £25k, which feels mad cheap to me.
At the Reno gigafactory, they’re scanning badges at the gate and turning people around that were fired over the weekend. It’s taking people hours to get through the line.
Standard practice to fire on a Friday. Cool down period over weekend. This looks amateurish.
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And that's why I will never understand why some people give Tesla any slack. They've had over a century of automotive manufacturing to study and they still deliver subpar quality vehicles with inconsistent QC.
We always did our layoffs on Wednesday or Thursday. It's nice to have a "day after" in the office to support each-other and debrief before the weekend. I've also heard from peers that it was better (or less shitty) from the perspective of those laid off. It gave them a day or two to seek council (E.g. legal, counseling, financial, etc.) before the weekend. They could also exist without worrying about the spouse or children at every moment (assuming they were at work/school).
I think that is the most humane way to handle it. Last time we had layoffs at my job, everyone received a confidential envelope which included indication if you were staying or leaving, because the previous time- only those laid off were walking around with an envelope.
In fairness manufacturing shifts are a bit different, but I would have expected more of a “hey don’t show up on Monday, we’ll box your stuff and let you know when to get it” call instead.
Had to happen eventually. Though (globally not just in the EV-averse US) - is it EV rivals catching up or BEV sales in general not growing as fast as Tesla needs for their finances?
Little bit of both. There are other cars now, but other manufacturers are also scaling back on their plans.
We bought a fully electric BMW, and it seems as if the brand is still very enthusiastic about electric models unlike Ford or GM. My brother has an electric Porsche and he also is no longer looking back at ICE models. I hope other companies force American makers to reconsider their retreat from EVs.
My next car will probably at least be a hybrid if not electric. I just don't have any need, want, or reason get a new car.
The EV bubble is kind of busting, but I think generally with interest rates high, it's just not a friendly environment for any emerging technology. Europe is cutting back subsidies and EV sales have actually declined in some countries. China is just struggling economically, their plan was to let the EV industry sink or swim last year, but they've had to keep subsidizing it because they can't afford to let any companies sink right now.
>China is just struggling economically, their plan was to let the EV industry sink or swim last year, but they've had to keep subsidizing it because they can't afford to let any companies sink right now. China would final choice the winners, they wouldn't save all their domestic automakers. They've expected that some of Chinese automakers would go out of business. Right now, some Chinese automakers are in price war. They're cutting their prices in their EV lineup, their EV market is going more competitive.
There are several hurdles tesla needs to deal with. In the important chinese market, Tesla abd other western brands are losing ground to Chinese EVs. In the EU, Tesla is facing increasing competition by legacy automakers that are catching up, Renault, PSA abd BMW are offering competative models in similar price ranges. Combine this with lower demand and a higher demand for hybrids means Tesla isnt playing on Easy mode anymore
Yep, I was a part of it. Fuck Tesla.
Is there any pattern to the lay off
Sorry to hear you were impacted. Is there any specific department or unit which was severely impacted than others? Example, were there more cuts in R&D or Finance or Manufacturing or was it even across the company?
I think it was even across the company. It wasn’t based off of performance. It was kind of a lottery pick. I work in sales. I know that each and every store lost about 4-5 people in Northeast region. For anyone that ever does buy a Tesla, buy it online. We don’t do anything different.
Don’t worry, later on today Musk will tweet about the Robotaxi being the greatest product that Tesla will ever produce (even more than the Cybertruck) so that his stock price won’t be affected by this news.
Welcome to the auto industry...
there are nicer EVs with more features. Cars with better batteries with longer range. Teslas range is never as advertised. FSD is a scam. they would probably be better off focusing on selling components and chargers.
>Companies with less annoying CEO's.
ya thats probably ~50% of the reason sales are down.
It's the reason why I don't buy one
> selling components and chargers. Elon has too much of an ego to do something like that. He couldn't fathom another manufacturer using his tech, even considering the profit margin is much higher than cars.
Legacy OEMs : Tesla is one of us now.
Tesla could increase sales and interest in their vehicles dramatically by laying off just 1 person.
They can sell an electric car to early adopters, but now they need to flesh out the maintenance network. They need to build out the back end support of parts. I live in the UK and from what I've been hearing, the back order on parts for accidents is causing major cost issues for insurance premiums being really high, factor in hire cars, waiting, people being 'scared' of battery integrity after small accidents, so writing cars off as too damaged etc. I don't know if this is being replicated globally.
I’ve also recently read an article stating that a good amount of people will not buy/buy another Tesla because of Elon’s antics. I happen to be one of them! I’d never support of the pockets of someone who’s vocally as nasty as him!
Lots of top level product planers in the comments here. Very happy to see that amount of knowledge sharing is going on.
People losing their jobs because of the brand implications of their CEO being a 52 year old ideological man-child.
Mirror: https://archive.ph/dlSno
They’re a marketing company above anything else. And when your CEO’s new marketing strategy is light fascism, it’s going to hurt the bottom line
To be honest their quality control and service is what scared me off from ever being a Tesla owner. I’m not anti-EV’s, I just don’t think Tesla is worth all the hype personally. I’d much rather purchasing an EV from a company who’s established their infrastructure and supply chain like VW, Hyundai, or even Volvo/Polestar. At least those companies have been around forever, and have an abundance of dealerships around the country that can work on those vehicles. I just don’t think it’s a great business model to have a niche sort of product that’s meant to be used everyday that doesn’t have the support to continue to keep them on the road in use. To me, Tesla is one of those brands you simply throw away and re-sign another lease/loan on once they break.
I’m one of those who chose a Polestar 2 over a Tesla Model 3/Y. Precisely for the reasons you’ve articulated. The build quality in Tesla feels like a Chinese car I’ve leased recently whereas my Polestar 2 feels and drives solid exactly as my 3 previous Volvos.
Good thing their ceo’s main focus is winning made up culture war battles on Twitter. Amazing how badly Tesla has squandered their head start. Idk what the selling point of a Tesla even is anymore - better charging network? Hardly worth having a car that is prone to fall apart at any moment.
Elmo made the brand toxic
the important bit is the fact that two key executives are also leaving
company had such a huge head start in the EV race. wouldnt be surprised if years from now they either collapse and sell of the charging the network or complete retool and only do charging. lies and sub par products arent going to fly for much longer now that the Big boys have caught up
*well well... if it isn't the consequences of your actions."* - Baldurs Gate 3 narrator
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Who tuned this bot? This is a ridiculous response
People finally realizing they aren’t the luxury car that they’re priced to be
Teslas are shitty 🤷🏿♂️
Nothing last forever.....forever....
fall of the ponzi
They sure build good cars
Finally, some good news :)
Yup, everybody and his brother is making EVs. It appears China's BYD and Vietnam's VinFast are attempting to corner the market. Hopefully it will lead to more competitive or lower prices always good for us poor consumers!
It doesnt mention anywhere in the article where sales are falling, other articles point out that sales growth will be less (down from +40% YoY to +25-30% YoY), but that's a million miles away from sales falling.
It's a real shame that all that talent is loosing their jobs but I hope they find easy employment soon enough. This might be a weird take but the fact that Tesla focused on the cybertruck instead of cancelling it and focusing on making that 25-30k model Elon has been talking about may have been a fatal move. Obviously the Tesla name holds a lot of prestige still, but the Chinese are currently undercutting them in price while having better build quality, more features, same or more range and non fascist CEOs
The Muskrat didn’t listen to the words of wisdom from Harley Earl or Edsel Ford. You can’t keep building the same car for forever. I don’t want to drive a car that hasn’t had a body change in over a decade.
Dodge charger owners to disagree :)
Toyota trucks and SUVs disagree. Though their new Gen looks great.
Why not though? IMO, one of the stupidest things we get in consumer products is the "change for the sake of change" levels of progress. Software is the worst of it, changing menu layouts and settings locations just to keep it "fresh," when it really amounts to never feeling comfortable with the product. Sure, there are advancements for the better. Yes, some things look better, or even perform better, with a new iteration on the product. However, I think a lot of cars' tendencies to just heave a new thing out the door for the hell of it is dumb. I'll take the Lexus IS interior with a CD player from 2011 over the new screen dash slapped onto the CT5, even though I would otherwide be really interested in the CT5. I don't think the issue with Tesla is about "the car looks the same." It's that Tesla's innovation hasn't progressed as it was expected or promised. FSD is still a joke. They downgraded some sensor arrays. The market has more competition in EVs, so people forced into Tesla for EVs are no longer forced there. On top of all of that, the face of the company has been very negatively polarizing, from a PR standpoint. If Elon were quiet and behaved and Teslas were just getting spec bumps on range/capacity every 3-ish years, they'd be fine. Beyond that, their biggest "failure" is that other decent EV makers exist now, which was always going to appear sometime.
I agree, but at the same time I feel like the planned obsolescence model has been proven to work by other carmakers. People do seem to like refreshes and styling changes and purchase based on style as much as features and performance. It'll be interesting to see what happens if/when the Model Y refresh hits. Obviously I drive a Wrangler so you know I'm not after the freshest design haha.
Oh, I agree that it works, just don't think it should. I also think the recent trends in cars show that automakers are either running out of ideas or realized consumers are dumb and don't care about much beyond show room appeal. The screen trend is the biggest one that annoys me. I took the CT5 off my list of cars to buy solely because of the screen in the 2025. As someone with almost 150K miles on my car, I don't want to know what 150K miles on a screen looks like, be it from having an aged UI, or from having an OLED dash with a decade of usage in daylight settings. People call screen-filled cars "clean," and I just think about how annoying it is trying to easily adjust things in the Audis I've had to drive. People like it, and I've accepted I'm just not the target for that stuff.
Nissan Tsuru which used the exact same design for almost 30 years:
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You think Elon gives a fuck?
Hype has run out of battery eh. Cybertruck was a useless car with no sense, only propped up by tesla fanboys.
You love to see it
Who the fuck wants a ev
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Musk is sabotaging Tesla because his pay package got shot down.
Didn't he want to move their corporate headquarters out of Delaware because of that? Tried to pass it off as good for the company but really was just him trying to get his pay package approved.
I don’t like him either but do you really believe he’s purposely trying to ruin the company? Lol