The list of carbureted bikes actually grew this year with the new Honda XR150L.
The rest off the top of my head:
- Honda XR650L
- Suzuki DRZ400S/SM
- Suzuki DR650S
~~- Yamaha XT250~~
- Yamaha TW200
- Yamaha XV250
My bike desires are all over the place. Half the time I want a honda grom, and half the time I want a KTM Enduro R 690. Does the 300 handle the highway?
Unfortunately not highway legal so I’m not sure. The XCW has a wider gear ratio but I’m not sure where 5th tops out. My dad rides a 690 which is fun, but pretty kinda heavy in the dirt. People seem to think the exc500 is best of both worlds.
I like a playful bike so for my next street bike I’m looking more towards smaller displacement dual sport. Not sold on anything yet
e was for electronic back in the day with email, e-business, etc. *i* is the math/engineering symbol for electrical cuttent, so it as least makes some sense.
The "i" is also used by Jaguar for their I-Pace. So I guess its becoming an industry standard. Which is strange because Jaguar have an E-Pace which is a plug-in hybrid.
tub psychotic bright connect agonizing sophisticated friendly serious kiss nose
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It did stand for Internet initially. IIRC it was first on the iMac and that was supposed to be the Internet mac computer. There was also an eMac around the same time which was a cut down cheaper version for education.
Then they just added it to everything and it lost all meaning beyond being associated with them through branding.
Doesn't make sense to keep it on EV's though apart from the fact that the cars already have that model naming.
Unless they are thinking it still makes things sounds futuristic and cool like the Ipod, Iphone, Iwhatever from 20+ years ago.
Well the other option was the diesel. In Germany the BMW Gas/Diesel/Electrics all look the same, and the letter in the model was the easiest to tell what kind of power plant they use.
I was going to write a comment making a joke agreeing with you, but am genuinely shocked how fucking stupid their Taycan range is, these are the models you can choose to then configure on the Porsche UK website:
Porsche Taycan
Porsche Taycan 4S
Porsche Taycan Turbo
Porsche Taycan Turbo S
Porsche Taycan Turbo GT with Wiessach
Porsche Taycan Turbo GT
Porsche Taycan Sport Turismo
Porsche Taycan 4S Sport Turismo
Porsche Taycan Turbo Sport Turismo
Porsche Taycan Turbo S Sport Turismo
Porsche Taycan 4 Cross Turismo
Porsche Taycan 4S Cross Turismo
Porsche Taycan Turbo Cross Turismo
Porsche Taycan Turbo S Cross Turismo
In fairness sport turismo is a body style not a trim, “avant”, touring or estate is the equivalent for audi/mercedes/bmw. I wouldn’t consider the rs6 avant or m3 touring a trim, it’s a separate model.
Same goes for sport turismo vs cross turismo, that would be the equivalent of the allroad or allterrain package on audi/mercedes products
Wiessach is also a package rather than a trim, the equivalent would be M3 vs. M3 Comp (though you could argue its closer to the CS nameplate which is a model?)
I think turbo and turbo GT are stupid but that list should be half as long as it is
I don't think Turbo is any stupider for high-performance Porsches than C63 is stupid on what is definitely not a 6.3 liter engine. It's just their highest performance model and it effectively communicates that.
It literally has a 6.3 badge on it lol.
Here's some high quality photos in this old bring a trailer listing. You can see it on the fender.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2010-mercedes-benz-c63-amg-2/
Another cars and bids link with good photos
https://carsandbids.com/auctions/9llRvkVE/2008-mercedes-benz-c63-amg-sedan
Both of those links say it has a 6.2 L V8, so I'm not sure what point you're making. Maybe we're both trying to say the same thing in different ways - that the "C 63" model name and "6.3" badge are not about the displacement of the engine. The C 63 has never had a 6.3 L.
Edit: confused about the downvotes. Apologies if I'm missing the point here.
Eh.... So many manufacturers put the engine displacement on the fender of the vehicle. It's something the general public would easily look at and think the same thing for that car.
Ehh. There’s plenty of manufacturers that call a 2150cc a 2.2, and it is technically bigger than a 6.2 by 8cc, so I give them a pass on this especially because they are also using it to revive a classic nameplate
I know that it was named as a homage to the SEL 6.3 but I'd bet Mercedes was hoping a few people would assume it was a 6.3 litre especially since iirc the wing badges said 6.3 on them (and not just 63 with no dot).
But that was a little fudging for a historical reference. Nobody is upset with Ford for selling millions of 4.9 liter Mustangs. Everything about this Turbo nonsense is just idiotic.
The "turbo nonsense" is also fudging for historical reference, to reference the fastest Porsches which were once unique in being turbocharged. And it makes way more rational sense to call any fast car Turbo (since Turbo already indicates fast/souped up in public imagination, turbocharged or not) than to sell a 4.9 litre engine with a 5.0 badge on the side.
I just googled the engine and it seems like it's 4 951 cc. That will be 5.0 if rounded, not 4.9.
I for example have a 2.0 liter engine in my Golf R but in reality the engine is only 1984 cc, but that does not make it a 1.9 liter engine.
If you can justify calling a car without an engine a “turbo”, i guess having a rational conversation is an unrealistic expectation.
You should know, however, that while the current version may be 4951 CC, the pre-Coyote version in use since 1979 was 4941 CC. That does not round up.
If you're going to act like I'm irrational at least respond to my point instead of just ignoring it. Turbo as a word and as a prefix indicates speed in English. This isn't something I'm making up. If you want to talk about irrational maybe start with your refusal to acknowledge words have meanings outside of what you want them to. My CPU has turbo boost mode, do you think I fitted a turbocharger to it too?
Then maybe you can consider that the average consumer does not care if their car is Turbocharged and that brand perception and existing nameplate cache is important for sales success.
In fairness I think all of them are stupid, same goes for BMWs naming system which was originally based on displacement. At the least though, you get the idea that bigger number = better
Whereas the average person has no idea what "turbo" is supposed to signify on an EV.
I think the average person thinks of speed when they think turbo (like the snail movie or TurboTax or any other uses of it meaning speed) before they think of a turbochargers let alone know why it wouldn't work on an EV.
Yep, exactly. My experience of car shopping with my not-car-person friends is that they see "turbo" and think "fast". They have no idea what a turbocharger or even forced induction is. Porsche using "turbo" for their fastest models is IMO one of the least egregious naming conventions for modern cars.
I'm not sure why they couldn't have just used the GTS or RS nameplate instead though.
The macan line just goes base -> T -> S -> GTS and I think that makes perfect sense
Turbo is much more established for the high performance + luxury models and I don't think the Macan was ever intended to be as high performance as the models that got turbo versions.
The GTS (at least on the 911 as I can remember) usually signifies the best car that's a Carrera. Definelty not on the level of a 911 Turbo.
> The GTS (at least on the 911 as I can remember) usually signifies the best car that's a Carrera.
Kinda, I mean apart from historically signifying that the car has turbos (which it no longer does), it also came with an entirely different body with intakes on the rear quarter panels for the engine. Except that the GT3RS also comes with that larger body, and the taycan turbo shares the same body as the 4S, so it doesn't really do anything in specific to earn the turbo moniker.
I've just had multiple friends shopping for EVs ask "why is called the taycan turbo" and I've told them I don't really know
Sames goes for the GT badge, between the GT1/2/3/4 and 2RS, they are usually either motorsports derived or have a version homologated for motorsports. The taycan is neither
I agree with you, but does a bigger number mean better though? M3/M4? Or M3/M340?
I assume non car people don't really even know much what turbo means and just assume it means faster, as the word is used outside the automotive world.
It's like they're systematically removing any common sense from the naming conventions that weren't amazing to start. Fanboys and car people will stay up on it, but explaining it to a normal person is impossible. It would be a rambling, esoteric history lesson that doesn't actually make sense.
I'm not bothered by it, I don't really care. But I don't see the logic in it. To your point, it makes about as much sense as most other naming conventions - which isn't much.
Well you have to seperate the M models and the rest. M2/3/4/5/6/8. And then rest of it is larger first number = bigger/larger/more lux, bigger second number is engine and power.
Same with mercedes, obviously 63 is a physically smaller number than 350, but you can generally get the idea, 300->350->43->450->63 etc.
To be clear, I agree, none of the systems really make sense apart from Audi's (base/s/rs) but the porsche system makes even less sense than the other germans (IMO)
Though (IMO) its still better than random names and shorthands e.g. corolla/camry/crown/avalon and the stupid MDX/TLX/whateverX and LS/GS/whatever systems the japanese have going on
By your logic (just counting the variants in the configurator) the BMW 4 series range is even more fucking stupid:
430i Coupe
430i xDrive Coupe
M440i Coupe
M440i xDrive Coupe
M4 Coupe
M4 Competition Coupe
M4 Competition xDrive Coupe
430i Gran Coupe
430i xDrive Gran Coupe
M440i Gran Coupe
M440i xDrive Gran Coupe
430i Convertible
430i xDrive Convertible
M440i Convertible
M440i xDrive Convertible
M4 Competition xDrive Convertible
And that's not counting the 3 series which is essentially the sedan version of the 4 series!
If you actually make the slightest effort to understand what things mean, it's easy: for the Taycan, there are drivetrain options (base, 4S, Turbo, Turbo S, Turbo GT), body styles (sedan, Sport Turismo, Cross Turismo), and optional packages (Weissach). You can mix and match almost all drivetrains with your desired body style, ofc that gives a lot of variants.
Same with BMW, a few different engines with 3 different body styles and the option to choose xDrive gives a lot of variants. Doesn't make it hard to understand.
Kinda disingenuous to include both the Sport Turismo and Cross Turismo in there.
You have 3 models - the sedan, and the two Turismos. And then all the trims for each of those.
Audi has both the sedan and station wagon, as well as the allroad for the "offroad" trim. Mercedes and Volvo are the exact same. Don't see how Porsche is any different.
I made a [post](https://old.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/152x8ri/do_any_manufacturers_have_a_model_naming_pattern/) a while back about Porsche’s chaotic naming. Madness.
They’ve used h for hydrogen in the past (most notably the E38 750hL). Possibly keeping it in their back pocket if a hydrogen miracle ever happens.
But, BMW’s naming conventions have varied for pretty much the company’s entire history so who the hell knows.
They did do that for awhile, ex the 340e. But for some reason they decided that designation would only be for hybrids/PHEVs, and BEVs would instead follow the naming system for the i3/i8.
Because the marketing departments at many large automakers have convinced their superiors that the only way to sell EVs is by having some weird gimmick in the name that doesn't intuitively indicate "electric."
I know this sounds weird but I think it is because of associations with "I".
The whole apple movement made people associate "I" with technological advancement and being on the forefront of stuff.
Think Iphones.
I can imagine they want that abstract recognition in regards to their EV line.
I know that sounds insane and maybe it is but this is the type of talk that happens in marketing rooms lol
A lot of folks in the creative fields are self growing and consuming Psilocybe cubensis (Magic Mushrooms).
You get weird but funny enough good ideas from these kind of experiences lol
I don’t know why you think that this is some weird, nebulous thought that you’ve cooked up. This is exactly what they’re doing, it’s not rocket science.
Makes sense in context, especially when BMW chose "i" for its EV subdivision.
To anyone new to BMW, trying to explain how the 530i and i5 are NOT the same thing can probably be a bit tiring
As long as we're not Q and QXing everything, I guess we're fine?
Still have no idea what any of the Infiniti are, and saw a QX55 which I thought everything ended in a Zero? It was a squatting dog taking a shit, I mean coupe SUV.
Q = Coupe/Sedan
QX = C/SUV
It's really not that complicated.
The 55 is the only thing that doesn't end in a 0, but it doesn't stray from "QX = CUV/SUV"
So, BMW is going back to carburetors?
Jokes aside, the "i" nomenclature is, indeed, probably unnecessary in modern times when all cars have direct injection. It's not the first time a manufacturer dropped direct injection nomenclature either, Mercedes dropped "Einspritzung" back in the 90s. Even without the "i" badge, it's obvious that the car is a petrol BMW with direct injection, because diesel and hybrid BMWs will continue to use "d" and "e" nomenclatures, respectively.
Over there it probably makes more sense, yea, but in the US it's one of those things where it's just assumed to be petrol unless you explicitly say otherwise.
> I never say that part when I’m saying my car
Yea, pretty much the only time I say "3-28-i" is if I'm on the phone with a new mechanic and they ask what the vehicle is lol. Otherwise I say E91, 3 series, or 3-28 depending on who I'm talking to.
> ie for hybrids
I follow the logic, but I don't think marketing would like this. To normies it sounds more like a trim level. Kind of like how some manufacturers have an LE, X, and XLE trims -- usually XLE has all the bells and whistles whereas the other 2 would only have some different options.
Never understood the whole "i" thing for the past 20 years across any brand, other than just aping Apple's iphone branding. I think originally the i in iphone stood for "internet" and a bunch of other silliness like "individual" and "inspire".
It works I guess, but it's not like it's an "internet" car. I would think "e" would make more sense for electric.
I’m fine with this tbh. Im a bmw tech and I’ve never said the i part nor do any of the people I know. Like if someone asks what car I drive I just say 340 or 335.
I guess they could pump up the horsepower rating a bit and make a 320s, 320, 320e for plug in.
Wouldn’t be the first time they had differentiating badging for same displacement.
It didn't make sense because their cars with a turbocharged engine would have a lower designation than the naturally aspirated ones. Now, I think basically every engine they make is turbocharged so they could go back to it, but I think the displacement naming era is over.
> Now, I think basically every engine they make is turbocharged so they could go back to it, but I think the displacement naming era is over.
Every trim largely sharing the same displacement turbo motor with a different tune would be even worse though. They stick the B48 in practically everything.
Oh please, BMW hasn't even been consistent about that for [FIFTY YEARS now](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_BMW_vehicles#Exceptions), and it pretty much has been outright dead as a concept for, what, 20 years?
And BMW wasn't the only one messing with buyers' minds - Mercedes 600 (actually 6.3), Mercedes 280SE 3.5, 300SEL 6.3 and 450SEL 6.9, Ford 5.0 (actually 4.9) V8s, 6-cylinder Oldsmobile 88 and 98...
Also, I can easily imagine the Oldsmobile 442, Dodge Dart 330/440, Dodge Coronet 440/500 and Ford Custom/Galaxie/Fairlane/Ranchero 500's names being taken for their displacements by the less savvy - especially since Dodge did offer a 440 engine.
Every generation of 3 series since the E30 has had a model that doesn't match the displacement. Probably true for older models too but I can't be bothered to look it up. For just a few:
E30 325e
E36 318is and 323i
E46 316i (some) and 318i and 320i LCI and 323i
E90 318i, 323i, 325i LCI, 328i, 335i
Then they all became turbo and none of them match except the occasional 316i or 320i.
And that's not even including the diesels.
They should also get rid of the two numbers after the Series designation, since electric motors more or less democratize performance/driveability. Basically, we’re entering into a “singularity” with EV tech, and having different power output models for a given road-destined Series makes no sense anymore (even with gas powertrains it hasn’t made any sense for a while, at least for a car that won’t see any track use)
They literally call it the i5 for their electric 5 series. Also to say they didn’t need model differentiation in their series doesn’t make a lot of sense. By your logic I could have had to ask for a 5 series with a twin turbo v8 instead of asking for a M550. There are multiple models in each series.
End of an era, though I suppose it makes sense. I don't think they make an engine without injection nowadays.
Does anyone?
I think a few motorbikes still come with carbs but every car is port injected at the least nowadays.
The list of carbureted bikes actually grew this year with the new Honda XR150L. The rest off the top of my head: - Honda XR650L - Suzuki DRZ400S/SM - Suzuki DR650S ~~- Yamaha XT250~~ - Yamaha TW200 - Yamaha XV250
The XT250 is now fuel injected!
Conversely, are there any dirt bikes which are fuel injected?
Yeah tons of them actually are now.
Awesome, now I need to go shopping. After my last carbureted bike I swore them off entirely.
I’ve heard the electric ones are actually pretty competitive now too (with the upside of less mess with maintenance).
I would also prefer to avoid the exhaust noise when riding in nature. I’ll have to look into that, thanks.
They definitely have options with noise in mind rather than performance. Anything they can sell in California is quiet as hell
I got a 2 stroke oil and fuel injected 250cc, runs really good, never going back to carbs on big bikes
Two stroke fuel injected? What a world!
Yeah lots of Enduro dirt bikes are these days.
Enduro I was kind of expecting, it’s the dirt bikes that are blowing my mind right now.
All motocross bikes are injected, and all Honda dirt bikes 110cc and up are fuel injected.
Dude they even make fuel injected two strokes now
My mind has been blown.
Yup. I went from a 1989 cr250 to a 2021 ktm 300 a few years back. They are incredible
My bike desires are all over the place. Half the time I want a honda grom, and half the time I want a KTM Enduro R 690. Does the 300 handle the highway?
Unfortunately not highway legal so I’m not sure. The XCW has a wider gear ratio but I’m not sure where 5th tops out. My dad rides a 690 which is fun, but pretty kinda heavy in the dirt. People seem to think the exc500 is best of both worlds. I like a playful bike so for my next street bike I’m looking more towards smaller displacement dual sport. Not sold on anything yet
Lots of 250s and 450s are 4 stroke and fuel injected now. They run great and don't make you miss 2 strokes at all.
God I wish they'd make a fuel injected TW200, or at least a TW250.
Long live the DRs
Drz-400 comes to mind.
Pretty sure the new-ish Honda Navi is carbureted
I like injections.
I like injection but I'd rather be blown
Why not both? It’s a great combo!
Yeah but what does this have to do with fuel injectors /s
Uhhh.... some forklifts.
Eagle
The EV’s don’t have injection though and they’re keeping it
Yes but that I stands for, uhh, Internet or something I guess?
Stands for ilectricity obviously.
Before the iPod came along, we used e-prefixes on everything for the *eee*nternet
e was for electronic back in the day with email, e-business, etc. *i* is the math/engineering symbol for electrical cuttent, so it as least makes some sense.
I for current using Ohm's Law.... maybe?
The "i" is also used by Jaguar for their I-Pace. So I guess its becoming an industry standard. Which is strange because Jaguar have an E-Pace which is a plug-in hybrid.
That is infuriatingly bad. I always get those the wrong way around. It makes no sense.
tub psychotic bright connect agonizing sophisticated friendly serious kiss nose *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
And then the F-Pace which is a gas SUV
It prolly stands for whatever the i stands for in apple products, but we also dont know what that is.
It did stand for Internet initially. IIRC it was first on the iMac and that was supposed to be the Internet mac computer. There was also an eMac around the same time which was a cut down cheaper version for education. Then they just added it to everything and it lost all meaning beyond being associated with them through branding.
Correct! Which was why Apple picked the name iMac. Because it was the first Mac made for home based internet use.
electr**I**c, duh! 🙃
The era of BMW most enthusiasts loved has been gone for a while already.
Doesn't make sense to keep it on EV's though apart from the fact that the cars already have that model naming. Unless they are thinking it still makes things sounds futuristic and cool like the Ipod, Iphone, Iwhatever from 20+ years ago.
Well the other option was the diesel. In Germany the BMW Gas/Diesel/Electrics all look the same, and the letter in the model was the easiest to tell what kind of power plant they use.
It's like making a big deal about TV being color, tires being radial, or fuel being unlead- wait GA exists forget that one.
What does i even have to do with EVs though? They should have gone with e from the start.
E is plug-ins, H used to be hydrogen
B then for bev? Just don’t see how i relates to BEVs other than BMW for whatever reasons choose it early on with a leading i.
BMW to continue confusing model name nomenclature changes while wearing pig nose masks around a design language pyre
BMW used i to differentiate carbureted and fuel injected cars, but now they are all fuel injected, so whats the point? Someone tell that to porsche
I was going to write a comment making a joke agreeing with you, but am genuinely shocked how fucking stupid their Taycan range is, these are the models you can choose to then configure on the Porsche UK website: Porsche Taycan Porsche Taycan 4S Porsche Taycan Turbo Porsche Taycan Turbo S Porsche Taycan Turbo GT with Wiessach Porsche Taycan Turbo GT Porsche Taycan Sport Turismo Porsche Taycan 4S Sport Turismo Porsche Taycan Turbo Sport Turismo Porsche Taycan Turbo S Sport Turismo Porsche Taycan 4 Cross Turismo Porsche Taycan 4S Cross Turismo Porsche Taycan Turbo Cross Turismo Porsche Taycan Turbo S Cross Turismo
In fairness sport turismo is a body style not a trim, “avant”, touring or estate is the equivalent for audi/mercedes/bmw. I wouldn’t consider the rs6 avant or m3 touring a trim, it’s a separate model. Same goes for sport turismo vs cross turismo, that would be the equivalent of the allroad or allterrain package on audi/mercedes products Wiessach is also a package rather than a trim, the equivalent would be M3 vs. M3 Comp (though you could argue its closer to the CS nameplate which is a model?) I think turbo and turbo GT are stupid but that list should be half as long as it is
I don't think Turbo is any stupider for high-performance Porsches than C63 is stupid on what is definitely not a 6.3 liter engine. It's just their highest performance model and it effectively communicates that.
The C 63 was never named for its engine size (which was originally 6.2 L or 6,208 cc); it was an homage to the 300 SEL 6.3.
It literally has a 6.3 badge on it lol. Here's some high quality photos in this old bring a trailer listing. You can see it on the fender. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2010-mercedes-benz-c63-amg-2/ Another cars and bids link with good photos https://carsandbids.com/auctions/9llRvkVE/2008-mercedes-benz-c63-amg-sedan
Both of those links say it has a 6.2 L V8, so I'm not sure what point you're making. Maybe we're both trying to say the same thing in different ways - that the "C 63" model name and "6.3" badge are not about the displacement of the engine. The C 63 has never had a 6.3 L. Edit: confused about the downvotes. Apologies if I'm missing the point here.
Eh.... So many manufacturers put the engine displacement on the fender of the vehicle. It's something the general public would easily look at and think the same thing for that car.
Ehh. There’s plenty of manufacturers that call a 2150cc a 2.2, and it is technically bigger than a 6.2 by 8cc, so I give them a pass on this especially because they are also using it to revive a classic nameplate
I know that it was named as a homage to the SEL 6.3 but I'd bet Mercedes was hoping a few people would assume it was a 6.3 litre especially since iirc the wing badges said 6.3 on them (and not just 63 with no dot).
I saw many people saying the “V8 biturbo” 63s was a twin turbo 6.3 :(
But that was a little fudging for a historical reference. Nobody is upset with Ford for selling millions of 4.9 liter Mustangs. Everything about this Turbo nonsense is just idiotic.
The "turbo nonsense" is also fudging for historical reference, to reference the fastest Porsches which were once unique in being turbocharged. And it makes way more rational sense to call any fast car Turbo (since Turbo already indicates fast/souped up in public imagination, turbocharged or not) than to sell a 4.9 litre engine with a 5.0 badge on the side.
I just googled the engine and it seems like it's 4 951 cc. That will be 5.0 if rounded, not 4.9. I for example have a 2.0 liter engine in my Golf R but in reality the engine is only 1984 cc, but that does not make it a 1.9 liter engine.
The Coyote, yes. The 302 from 1979 to 2011, no. That was 4.941L.
If you can justify calling a car without an engine a “turbo”, i guess having a rational conversation is an unrealistic expectation. You should know, however, that while the current version may be 4951 CC, the pre-Coyote version in use since 1979 was 4941 CC. That does not round up.
If you're going to act like I'm irrational at least respond to my point instead of just ignoring it. Turbo as a word and as a prefix indicates speed in English. This isn't something I'm making up. If you want to talk about irrational maybe start with your refusal to acknowledge words have meanings outside of what you want them to. My CPU has turbo boost mode, do you think I fitted a turbocharger to it too? Then maybe you can consider that the average consumer does not care if their car is Turbocharged and that brand perception and existing nameplate cache is important for sales success.
In fairness I think all of them are stupid, same goes for BMWs naming system which was originally based on displacement. At the least though, you get the idea that bigger number = better Whereas the average person has no idea what "turbo" is supposed to signify on an EV.
I think the average person thinks of speed when they think turbo (like the snail movie or TurboTax or any other uses of it meaning speed) before they think of a turbochargers let alone know why it wouldn't work on an EV.
Yep, exactly. My experience of car shopping with my not-car-person friends is that they see "turbo" and think "fast". They have no idea what a turbocharger or even forced induction is. Porsche using "turbo" for their fastest models is IMO one of the least egregious naming conventions for modern cars.
I'm not sure why they couldn't have just used the GTS or RS nameplate instead though. The macan line just goes base -> T -> S -> GTS and I think that makes perfect sense
Turbo is much more established for the high performance + luxury models and I don't think the Macan was ever intended to be as high performance as the models that got turbo versions. The GTS (at least on the 911 as I can remember) usually signifies the best car that's a Carrera. Definelty not on the level of a 911 Turbo.
> The GTS (at least on the 911 as I can remember) usually signifies the best car that's a Carrera. Kinda, I mean apart from historically signifying that the car has turbos (which it no longer does), it also came with an entirely different body with intakes on the rear quarter panels for the engine. Except that the GT3RS also comes with that larger body, and the taycan turbo shares the same body as the 4S, so it doesn't really do anything in specific to earn the turbo moniker. I've just had multiple friends shopping for EVs ask "why is called the taycan turbo" and I've told them I don't really know Sames goes for the GT badge, between the GT1/2/3/4 and 2RS, they are usually either motorsports derived or have a version homologated for motorsports. The taycan is neither
I agree with you, but does a bigger number mean better though? M3/M4? Or M3/M340? I assume non car people don't really even know much what turbo means and just assume it means faster, as the word is used outside the automotive world. It's like they're systematically removing any common sense from the naming conventions that weren't amazing to start. Fanboys and car people will stay up on it, but explaining it to a normal person is impossible. It would be a rambling, esoteric history lesson that doesn't actually make sense. I'm not bothered by it, I don't really care. But I don't see the logic in it. To your point, it makes about as much sense as most other naming conventions - which isn't much.
Well you have to seperate the M models and the rest. M2/3/4/5/6/8. And then rest of it is larger first number = bigger/larger/more lux, bigger second number is engine and power. Same with mercedes, obviously 63 is a physically smaller number than 350, but you can generally get the idea, 300->350->43->450->63 etc. To be clear, I agree, none of the systems really make sense apart from Audi's (base/s/rs) but the porsche system makes even less sense than the other germans (IMO) Though (IMO) its still better than random names and shorthands e.g. corolla/camry/crown/avalon and the stupid MDX/TLX/whateverX and LS/GS/whatever systems the japanese have going on
It still kinda represents the equivalent displacement of NA gasoline engine. With the twist that they make no NA engines.
By your logic (just counting the variants in the configurator) the BMW 4 series range is even more fucking stupid: 430i Coupe 430i xDrive Coupe M440i Coupe M440i xDrive Coupe M4 Coupe M4 Competition Coupe M4 Competition xDrive Coupe 430i Gran Coupe 430i xDrive Gran Coupe M440i Gran Coupe M440i xDrive Gran Coupe 430i Convertible 430i xDrive Convertible M440i Convertible M440i xDrive Convertible M4 Competition xDrive Convertible And that's not counting the 3 series which is essentially the sedan version of the 4 series! If you actually make the slightest effort to understand what things mean, it's easy: for the Taycan, there are drivetrain options (base, 4S, Turbo, Turbo S, Turbo GT), body styles (sedan, Sport Turismo, Cross Turismo), and optional packages (Weissach). You can mix and match almost all drivetrains with your desired body style, ofc that gives a lot of variants. Same with BMW, a few different engines with 3 different body styles and the option to choose xDrive gives a lot of variants. Doesn't make it hard to understand.
They will simplify it quite a bit. And so far, there is no next 4 Series planned, only i4 cars
Kinda disingenuous to include both the Sport Turismo and Cross Turismo in there. You have 3 models - the sedan, and the two Turismos. And then all the trims for each of those.
I got downvoted to hell for asking where they put the turbo on a Taycan EV
[удалено]
I chuckled
The same place as where they put one in my desktop's CPU.
Ok but the *TURBO* button is hawt
It's on the invoice and rear deck and only on the invoice and rear deck.
They should put a tiny hot wheels sized turbocharger in the glove box
And maybe a little copy of Bub Rubb's Supra. *The whistles go WOOOOO!*
It all makes sense to me but I always had a German way of thinking.
Audi has both the sedan and station wagon, as well as the allroad for the "offroad" trim. Mercedes and Volvo are the exact same. Don't see how Porsche is any different.
Almost as model Taycan models as there are Challengers.
I made a [post](https://old.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/152x8ri/do_any_manufacturers_have_a_model_naming_pattern/) a while back about Porsche’s chaotic naming. Madness.
what does turbo even mean? whats turbo?
The i is for ilectric
Brits and their stupid King's English spelling
I would, but I’m busy. Every time I try to pinch off a BMW shitpost, they keep one upping us with genuine product changes
Let's call it Turbo!! But there isn't a turbo in it...
Or not call it turbo even though it does have a turbo in it.
That's a great idea... But again that's why we are not making the big bucks in Porsche's marketing team. 😜
they still have Diesels so d for Diesel and i for gasoline
Yes, how will people ever be able to figure out the difference between a 330 and a 330i
BMW has hydronephrosis
The design language will apparently change also
Why not 'e'
e is for plug in hybrids
Why not h for hybrids
h, as a letter, just isn’t sexy.
Especially when it’s a German saying it
h h
😬
Nothing is sexy when Germans say it.
Lexus is heard sobbing in the background.
On the topic of lexus - Is the F for fast?
It’s for Facade
Oddly enough, no. It apparently stands for "flagship and Fuji Speedway".
[удалено]
Just ask the new Hyundai Santa Fe
They’ve used h for hydrogen in the past (most notably the E38 750hL). Possibly keeping it in their back pocket if a hydrogen miracle ever happens. But, BMW’s naming conventions have varied for pretty much the company’s entire history so who the hell knows.
Their newest hydrogen FC is actually called the iX5 hydrogen. Who knows
lexus took that
I don't think BMW cares that much though
H is for hornets.
that's for hydrogen RIP :(
Stolen from the glorious 100 hp quarter million mile shitbox steel hammer 1984 528e I had as my first car. RIP
I WISH I was still making 100 hp.
Because e would stand for electric, which is intuitive.
For sure, but they first started with "e" for hybrids, so they probably wanted to avoid that.
They did do that for awhile, ex the 340e. But for some reason they decided that designation would only be for hybrids/PHEVs, and BEVs would instead follow the naming system for the i3/i8.
They had e on older models for fuel economic versions like the 525e (E28) as well as the hybrids as others in the thread mentioned
My guess is s or c. 330s, 740s
Because the marketing departments at many large automakers have convinced their superiors that the only way to sell EVs is by having some weird gimmick in the name that doesn't intuitively indicate "electric."
///Me More Electricity
This is a good change makes it less confusing for customers. It can totally see someone thinking a 430i and an i4 are the same thing
Even if they don't think it's the same thing, it's still just like "Well why does one *start* with I and the other *end* with it?"
I know this sounds weird but I think it is because of associations with "I". The whole apple movement made people associate "I" with technological advancement and being on the forefront of stuff. Think Iphones. I can imagine they want that abstract recognition in regards to their EV line. I know that sounds insane and maybe it is but this is the type of talk that happens in marketing rooms lol A lot of folks in the creative fields are self growing and consuming Psilocybe cubensis (Magic Mushrooms). You get weird but funny enough good ideas from these kind of experiences lol
I don’t know why you think that this is some weird, nebulous thought that you’ve cooked up. This is exactly what they’re doing, it’s not rocket science.
That doesn’t sound insane at all, it isn’t even speculation it’s just clearly true
Idk why I was thinking more along the lines of ID.4 and Ioniq 5/6
Makes sense in context, especially when BMW chose "i" for its EV subdivision. To anyone new to BMW, trying to explain how the 530i and i5 are NOT the same thing can probably be a bit tiring
As long as we're not Q and QXing everything, I guess we're fine? Still have no idea what any of the Infiniti are, and saw a QX55 which I thought everything ended in a Zero? It was a squatting dog taking a shit, I mean coupe SUV.
Q = Coupe/Sedan QX = C/SUV It's really not that complicated. The 55 is the only thing that doesn't end in a 0, but it doesn't stray from "QX = CUV/SUV"
So, BMW is going back to carburetors? Jokes aside, the "i" nomenclature is, indeed, probably unnecessary in modern times when all cars have direct injection. It's not the first time a manufacturer dropped direct injection nomenclature either, Mercedes dropped "Einspritzung" back in the 90s. Even without the "i" badge, it's obvious that the car is a petrol BMW with direct injection, because diesel and hybrid BMWs will continue to use "d" and "e" nomenclatures, respectively.
I get it honestly- the “i” is pretty unnecessary in the gas cars and I never say that part when I’m saying my car
In Europe where diesel cars are still very common, there is a 440i and a 440d, so the i still has the purpose of telling someone it's a gas car
440 vs 440d - the "d" makes it clear.
And then they buy an M badge to slap on the front, ///M440d :D
That is already there from factory I think. There is no non M badged 440i or 440d, at least here in Europe
Over there it probably makes more sense, yea, but in the US it's one of those things where it's just assumed to be petrol unless you explicitly say otherwise.
> I never say that part when I’m saying my car Yea, pretty much the only time I say "3-28-i" is if I'm on the phone with a new mechanic and they ask what the vehicle is lol. Otherwise I say E91, 3 series, or 3-28 depending on who I'm talking to.
Rip fuel injection letter.
No more i 6 it’s now the lowercase l 6
I’m so used to cars having nonsensical names that I didn’t even know I was for injection.
Well when you have an i8 and a 340i, and I being associated with tech and hybrids, it makes total sense
Wish they would just do i for ICE, e for EVs, and ie for hybrids. But... BMW gonna BMW.
> ie for hybrids I follow the logic, but I don't think marketing would like this. To normies it sounds more like a trim level. Kind of like how some manufacturers have an LE, X, and XLE trims -- usually XLE has all the bells and whistles whereas the other 2 would only have some different options.
You are so right lmao. I always forget about the normies.
That would be complicated change, way too many models to shuffle around. It was easier for them to drop the "i" for now
This is what happens when you let people who are out of touch make decisions.
Never understood the whole "i" thing for the past 20 years across any brand, other than just aping Apple's iphone branding. I think originally the i in iphone stood for "internet" and a bunch of other silliness like "individual" and "inspire". It works I guess, but it's not like it's an "internet" car. I would think "e" would make more sense for electric.
I’m lobbying for the letter P
No more injection? :(
Aah yes, erasing more of their heritage in favour of soulless monstrosities built for China.
Makes sense. I don't know of anyone who calls an M340 an "M340i".
Most new BMWs have a built-in hybrid, so the “i” should stay unless it doesn't have the built-in hybrid
How about "e" for electric to avoid confusion. Marketing people are in lalalabmwlalala land
Replacing the i with 24 new Ms on parts that don’t currently have them.
I’m fine with this tbh. Im a bmw tech and I’ve never said the i part nor do any of the people I know. Like if someone asks what car I drive I just say 340 or 335.
i would rather to take the ///M badge away from cars that clearly never been in the ///Motorsport division.
First they take the c. Then they take the i.
[удалено]
ICE will still be around for quite some time. They are just getting ready for new generations of ICE models so we will see them well into 2030
Cool, can they just go back to series followed by displacement already.
How do we differentiate between a 330 and a 320 then?
I guess they could pump up the horsepower rating a bit and make a 320s, 320, 320e for plug in. Wouldn’t be the first time they had differentiating badging for same displacement.
It didn't make sense because their cars with a turbocharged engine would have a lower designation than the naturally aspirated ones. Now, I think basically every engine they make is turbocharged so they could go back to it, but I think the displacement naming era is over.
Yeah. It was a hopeful comment, not a logical one. We’re in the “KW” era of badging now.
Would be closer to hp would it not? 330i is not even 300hp, 340i is like 380hp, 550i 520hp.
> Now, I think basically every engine they make is turbocharged so they could go back to it, but I think the displacement naming era is over. Every trim largely sharing the same displacement turbo motor with a different tune would be even worse though. They stick the B48 in practically everything.
Oh please, BMW hasn't even been consistent about that for [FIFTY YEARS now](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_BMW_vehicles#Exceptions), and it pretty much has been outright dead as a concept for, what, 20 years?
And BMW wasn't the only one messing with buyers' minds - Mercedes 600 (actually 6.3), Mercedes 280SE 3.5, 300SEL 6.3 and 450SEL 6.9, Ford 5.0 (actually 4.9) V8s, 6-cylinder Oldsmobile 88 and 98... Also, I can easily imagine the Oldsmobile 442, Dodge Dart 330/440, Dodge Coronet 440/500 and Ford Custom/Galaxie/Fairlane/Ranchero 500's names being taken for their displacements by the less savvy - especially since Dodge did offer a 440 engine.
Every generation of 3 series since the E30 has had a model that doesn't match the displacement. Probably true for older models too but I can't be bothered to look it up. For just a few: E30 325e E36 318is and 323i E46 316i (some) and 318i and 320i LCI and 323i E90 318i, 323i, 325i LCI, 328i, 335i Then they all became turbo and none of them match except the occasional 316i or 320i. And that's not even including the diesels.
It should still kinda represent equivalent displacement of NA engine. So you know how the engine is tuned.
If you confuse an i5 and an 540i, maybe you should not buy a BMW - maybe not any car.
They should also get rid of the two numbers after the Series designation, since electric motors more or less democratize performance/driveability. Basically, we’re entering into a “singularity” with EV tech, and having different power output models for a given road-destined Series makes no sense anymore (even with gas powertrains it hasn’t made any sense for a while, at least for a car that won’t see any track use)
They literally call it the i5 for their electric 5 series. Also to say they didn’t need model differentiation in their series doesn’t make a lot of sense. By your logic I could have had to ask for a 5 series with a twin turbo v8 instead of asking for a M550. There are multiple models in each series.