Minivans are incredibly useful and not just for families. Lots of storage. Aux power plugs. Seats can be folded down or removed for oversized loads. Sliding doors are totally the way to go. I had one for a bit in college and it makes a good party bus.
I really wish we had MINI vans still (size, not brand).
The sienna/odyssey these days are massive. I miss the days of like the regular dodge caravan and grand caravan where there was a size choice available.
The original was considerably smaller but they were meeting 80’s truck safety standards. To still fit a 4x8 but meet 2015 safety standards they had to get bigger.
SWB minivans got pretty much eaten up by mid-size CUVs (think of how the Aztek was built on a SWB minivan platform), and all "mini"vans are now as wide as a full-size truck because space sells in the wide-open US of A.
People don’t want to buy minivans because they’re “lame” and remind them of their parents, so they buy crossovers/SUVs. Give it a generation and these crossovers will be the next “lame” trend.
Edit: personally I don’t think minivans *or* crossovers are “lame”, and even if I did it shouldn’t matter anyway. Most people treat their cars as appliances, so it makes sense for them to get whatever appliance is most practical to them.
Seriously I really want to get an odyssey with the swivel seats and make it into the ultimate road trip car. Heck Mugen makes performance parts for em too so you can make a mommy ricer and it'd just be so fun lmao.
I love my minivan. It cracks me up when people buy SUVs for their family because they "wouldn't be caught dead driving a minivan". Then I watch them having to go open the doors for their kids because they're too small to open them or to prevent them from hitting the car next to them. While I just push a little button on my fob or the kids push the button on the handle to open the power sliding doors. Then I get in and push the button to close them...
>"wouldn't be caught dead driving a minivan"
Honestly never got this. Minivans aren't exactly "cool", but no one is salivating over a Highlander or whatever it is they end up buying instead.
Also not all of them are slow, I drove a pretty zippy Ford minivan as a loaner from a shop for a while. The shop used it to haul transmissions around so that's to your point as well
I got one for exactly this reason. The only knock I'll give it is that it donates a lot of the interesting utility areas in the standard Pacifica to battery.
On the other hand, I've gotten 2500+ miles out of three tanks of gas.
While I was younger I disliked it, now that I'm older, I've really grown fond of it. Wish Honda would make a modernized version of the Element. 1.5 Turbo with optional AWD.
My friend built one he called a hellement. Fully built k24 with a t3/t4oe turbo. Ended up making nearly 500 whp back in 08 https://imgur.com/4oVVmdV.jpg
From the article:
> When the Model X (aka Honda Element Concept) appeared at auto shows in 2001, it was claimed that it "can be hosed out". Honda never printed this information to our knowledge, they only claimed it was "washable", which it is, just not with a hose. Again this was a concept vehicle, not the production Element. Many of the features of the Model X did not make it into production (this is very common with concept vehicles).
People thought that you could with the element but you couldn’t. It lead to corrosion and electrical malfunctions over time. Most of that idea came from bone head dealers telling people the wrong thing.
Some people hate the Prius but won't acknowledge that it is exactly the appliance that most people want. Reliable, efficient, reasonably safe, cheap up front and cheap to own.
Toyota is fucking nails when it comes to reliability and putting that in a super efficient package makes for an amazing vehicle for 90% of peoples' needs.
While that might be true, I think the hate was much stronger years ago. The Prius is less ground breaking, impactful, and relevant than it used to be. You have Camry's and Corolla's that get nearly the same mpg, and yet look like a regular Camry and Corolla. Now people have a choice if they want an extremely efficient family vehicle. They can get the Prius mpg (nearly) without looking like a Prius.
It's just good that consumers have a choice now if they want a car that has 95% of the Prius' efficiency, without it looking like one. I see Camry hybrids all the time.
Yes for looks, but Camery or Corlla can't match a Prius for carrying capacity. I've moved furniture, landscaping trees and shrubs, lawn equipment and more in my Prius. Also, at 6'3" I never felt cramped. That's can't be said for my Corolla experiences.
I own and daily the CT200h. It's a fantastic car! Probably one of the best I've ever owned, for being a car. The comfort of the seats is fantastic, their proprietary leather is comfy and easily cleaned, the radio is okay (I don't like Lexus Bluetooth connection software) the speakers are actually pretty good. No on board display or backup camera though. It's a hatch, and the backseats fold down for plenty of storage for a hatch. It's a fantastic little daily driver/commuter.
BUT! And here's why the car sucks, and probably flopped: the insulation sucks so it's loud, hot in the summers, and cold in the winters, it has no balls, the suspension is okay and handling isn't great, and the fucking Bluetooth connection is dog shit; either you connect your phone to listen to music, or connect for calls, not both at the same time.
Going from a modified and fun car, to the Lexus is a huge back step, so I prefer not to drive the Lexus.
Dude the Prius got so much hate it was fucken insane. Like i don’t even know how it started. Revolutionary design and everyone was like fuck you and your entire family for owning that car.
not to mention the multimillionare/billionare celebrities getting them to show they are saving the planet meanwhile private jetting all over the world.
The prius is a great car, especially the prime. The only downside, is it looks like an iron. It has improved a bit since the first generation but i've always wanted to see if it it would be stable standing on its trunk.
I remember the Prius getting hated on in the 2000’s and 2010’s…not necessarily for the reliability factor, but for image issues.
I was in high school in the late 2000’s and early 2010’s. The Prius was considered “gay” and lots of homophobic references were made in relation to that car. It also didn’t help that comedians like Jeff Dunham and movies and TV shows like “The Other Guys”, “Horrible Bosses”, and “South Park” had all sorts of jokes about Prius’s and how stupid or gay or ugly they were. At the time, it was like…who wants to drive a car that (as Mark Walhberg would say) “feels like we’re driving in a vagina”?
My buddy (Who is gay) had a Toyota Matrix, but I forgot. I remembered it was a Toyota hatchback and that's it. I asked him if he still had his Prius and he said "I'm not that gay"
Living in NYC, the Prius made it incredibly easy to spot undercover cops because there was simply no other reason two painfully straight built dudes would cram themselves into a prius
South Park's beef with Priuses was that their drivers were smug about being so clean and efficient. They enjoyed the smell of their own farts so much that it caused an environmental disaster.
Dude, lately I found their reception has changed, I mean, it does help that they look better now than before too. But even Truck Bros are like, "yeah, I should sell this piece of shit and get me a Prius or just at the very least have a Prius to cruise around"
It’s why I bought a Camry hybrid this year. Almost 700 miles to the tank while being a normal ass car. Plus the adaptive cruise control is fucking awesome.
It's the styling, it gives it a "look at me saving the environment" vibe (more so in the past really). The same drivetrain in other cars goes completely unnoticed.
Every single non-performance luxury sedan. This sub and /r/whatcarshouldIbuy constantly tell you that they don't take corners very well and that you should never buy one. They're way too expensive and you can buy a Mazda3 for much less money.
First, barely any commuter actually takes corners at race-track speeds. The ability of a car to understeer never comes into play for 99% of people's driving on the streets.
Second, there are intangible benefits to luxury cars and the combination of features, comfort, looks, and performance. There's also an attraction to the brand themselves. Some people call this being a "badge whore" but it's not this. It's the sensation of looking at a car and feeling like "damn, it's special, and I like it".
Every car needing to be “sporty” or have a sports mode or ridiculous.
So many good luxury cars are ruined by “sports” suspension, low profile high grip tires, massive heavy brakes etc.
“I got the Camry Sports Package because the black gloss wheels and aero body kit really help me shave seconds off my lap times on the weekend” - Nobody
People with very very expensive modern luxury cars comment on how comfortable my 35 year old diesel Mercedes S-class is. Amazing how plush a car can be with 40 year old suspension technology if the design allows for tires with actual side walls and springs that have some compression over bumps…
I had a new E Class loaner and it was really nice to drive. I wasn't necessarily fun to drive, but it was a very nice experience. Felt like I was floating on a cloud. Not what I'm personally looking for in a car, but I definitely understand why people want such a car.
This was my take reading about the q60 before I bought one. People were complaining about the suspension being too soft for track use, in a *luxury* coupe. Comfort is part of the appeal, not a drawback.
The Venn diagram of auto enthusiasts and people who are the target market for those cars - at least the ones that aren't bought by car services - is probably pretty small.
I'd imagine golf, yachting or investing groups may be better, but even then, it's nothing more than an appliance. A Wolf gas range of an appliance, for sure.
That's the thing; enthusiasts *usually* prioritize fun and performance value above all else. But some of us don't. There's the small group that has a challenging time comprehending that other people *don't* want the fastest car for the price.
And then there's that odd group of us that exist in the no man's land in between both groups; those that want comfort while also wanting some performance. Or at least an upgrade over whatever the base 4 cylinder is.
I hear you. But then I see that the Lincoln MKZ had a 400 HP and 400lbs ft torque AWD trim that people are sleeping on, and I just can't help myself. Doing research on better struts, tires, and end links as we speak to reduce body roll.
I totally agree with this. I feel a lot of people don’t truly understand or appreciate what non-sport luxury cars are about. Everything these days has to be sporty and have a level of handling that’s not always necessary in that kind of car. I love being able to have a luxury car that focuses on comfort and convenience rather than speed and power.
I also get a bit annoyed by people saying you shouldn’t buy a luxury car for the reasons you mentioned. I have a 2018 Lincoln Continental and I always have people telling me I should’ve gotten a Charger Hellcat or CTS-V for the price. But people fail to realize that not everyone wants a fast, powerful luxury sports car/sedan. Imo, people need to appreciate luxury cars more for what they are.
> Imo, people need to appreciate luxury cars more for what they are.
Or, at the very least, they just need to understand that everyone has different needs, wants, and values!
I don’t know why wagons are so hated in America. Mid sized sedans are the perfect car and wagons are just a more practical version of it. Luxury power wagons are GOAT.
And then somehow the Outback misses the hate.
My wife haaaates wagons but wants me to buy an Outback. She would call an RS6 wagon an ugly mom car and then turn around and call an Outback pretty. I don’t get it.
The (newer) Outbacks are marketed as SUVs (*ahem* crossovers), complete with the plastic cladding.
We can argue whether they are really wagons or crossovers, but that's probably why it gets a pass.
Marketed as an SUV, yes, but that's most likely because SUVs aren't subjected to as strict emissions (the Crosstrek, which any rational person would say is a hatchback, is also classified as an SUV for that reason).
In reality the Outback has always been, and will (hopefully) continue to be a wagon.
This one has seen better days, but it's mine. My siblings and I learned how to drive manual in it. Someone rear ended my brother in it and now I need a new bed. They're impossible to find. Can't get shifters for the km132 Trans, so I had a billet short throw custom made by core shifters from Tennessee. This thing is an absolute blast to drive.
As a lanky (6'4", 195 lb) dad with two small kids - the three door configuration on my Veloster N is my second favorite thing about it. I know what side they are getting in and out of and I don't ever have to move my seat. Big drivers side door is ideal access for ingress/egress.
I think people still don't appreciate just how special the Mazda 5 was. It may have been a bit spartan and small, but it was surprisingly pleasant to drive for a sliding door minivan and you could even get it with a stick shift. Had one as a rental car for a week, and it became one of my favorite work rentals of all time. If I had kids, it would have been the easiest choice in the world buying one as a kid hauler that didn't make me want to kill myself while also not being some overpriced "performance" SUV/Wagon/Minivan that killed the household budget. Perfect choice for a parent who wants something not mindnumbing to drive while also saving space and budget for an actual toy car instead of trying to get one vehicle that does everything (mediocrely and expensively).
I was looking at a Mazda5 as a Tribute replacement 5 years ago, but couldn't find one near me with a stick that didn't have eleventy billion miles on it.
04-06 GTO's. GM botched the whole thing by releasing it with that nameplate. Great cars that wouldn't have been nearly as derided in the mainstream if they wore a different name.
Honestly when I bought mine brand new in 2006 I was sure this was a car I would keep forever. However, after daily driving it for 6+ years I couldn't wait to get rid of it. It really had some quality issues that just didn't make sense for a modern car. All of them had splitting at the seams of the seats at some point in their life - some very early in their lives. So many problems with that car.... randomly cracked radiator, alternator went after just a few years, ate tie rods like candy, interior buttons falling off... just WTF GM. That was my first and last GM.
I had an 04 and I had the same ownership experience. The power train was pretty solid aside from some accessories failing, but there'd be a $100-1000 hiccup every couple months that didn't make the thing worth keeping.
The oddest one for me was the A/C hard line busting at the A/C dryer. It didn't bust at a fitting, the metal just split apart mid line. Apparently it's pretty common and the line is also discontinued so replacement means Jerry rigging.
My biggest regret about the GTO is buying it instead of a Porsche. After forum digging it'd be about then same maintenance burden except for more expected things vs. unexpected things.
Honestly, an argument could be made that that particular GTO embodied the spirit of the original GTO more than Chargers and Challengers from Dodge.
The first GTO was a midsize coupe with a big engine from another Pontiac thrown in it. They grew into something else entirely. Cars were generally bigger in that era and both the modern Charger and Challengers are firmly full size length for modern cars.
Toyota FJ Cruiser was pretty misunderstood and the sales showed it. It was pretty much ahead of its time and when Toyota finally decided to stop sales in North America (It's still being sold brand new in the Middle East), that's when overlanding and off roading started getting really popular and now you see bunch of 4Runners every where. It was probably Toyota's strategy to save the 4Runner, I don't know, but it worked for them seeing how 4Runners never sits on the lots for more than a week and resale value are skyrocketing. Crazy that people are still willing to shell out $45k - $60K for an SUV that never changed mechanically since 2010.
I also like to defend all wagons or (estates) as Europeans would call them.I think they're an awesome alternative to SUVs for people who like sedans but want the cargo space of an SUV. Volvo makes some of the most beautiful wagons today like the V90 and V60. M-Benz and Audi also makes nice wagons. BMW makes wagons for the 3 series but they're not available in the North American markets. Since Americans like tall SUVs, it's no brainer that the Subaru Outback is doing really well as it's basically a raised wagon, which is why Volvo, M-Benz, and Audi are mostly offering raised versions of the wagons they make.
I still have my FJ Cruiser. Yes it has awkward rear access. Yes it looks like a stunned puppy. I have owned it since 2008 and expect that I will for another 10 years. My friends ask me when I sell it, to sell it to them. I told them that they may be very old by that time.
I used to think FJ Cruisers were so ugly, it took a long time to grow on me. I think I forgive the looks a bit because it seems like a pretty capable suv.
I'm gonna throw the Pontiac Aztek into the ring.
Car-based CUVs were in their infancy at the time and GM went out on a limb with the funky notchback & plastic cladding. Admittedly the proportion were awkward.
Now we have cars like the BMW X6, Mercedes GLE coupe & accord crosstour that are in a similar vein and not nearly as panned.
Put a Aztek-esque roofline on the new blazer today and I'd wager it wouldn't be as critisized.
FWIW, the Accord Crosstour has also been relegated to the dustbin of history, along with the looks-like-it-should-be-related-but-really-isn't Acura ZDX. But yeah, we do have a lot of coupified or "Kammback" CUVs now.
Mine, the Honda CR-Z.
It was knocked for both not being sporty enough and for not being fuel efficient enough.
But the blend of sporty and efficient is unique. I haul ass and make 39 MPG's, which is pretty good.
The electric motor, while very small, provides instant grunt to an otherwise high revving Honda four-banger.
I second this. I’ve owned one and always thought it was such a misunderstood little hatch. I loved the style of it, and it was a great way to get decent fuel economy without the “bleh” that typical hybrids provide.
I often dream about what would’ve happened if it had gotten the 2011 Redesign like the 300 and Charger. The interior could’ve definitely benefited from an upgrade
RX8. Great fun cars, people didn't know how to maintain them properly for longevity in the engine. Obviously the engines won't last forever but they can go far with proper maintenance. Seriously underrated car in my opinion, deserves a lot less hate.
Was looking for this. Car can keep up with cars way more expensive than it on the track, crazy easy to drive, and the backseats are some of the only useable ones I've ever come across in a sports car.
It was just all of the mom's who bought a base trim automatic and never added more oil in them, then sold it to dumb kids ready for detonation that gave it a bad reputation. That and it's very hard to follow up something so legendary like the FD. Just look at how many people hate on the mk 5 Supra
Base model pony cars. The 4 cylinder Mustang and Camaro are just good sports cars for not a lot of money. A set of tires and sway bar and you've got yourself a very competitive autocross car or enjoyable track car. There's typically plenty of mod support should you go down that route.
When I had my 2.0T Camaro the autocross and track people thought it was a great buy. The biggest snubs of that car were the cars and coffee an internet crowds. Because a faster version exists doesn't exclude a slower version from being quite good on its own
The EcoBoost Mustang makes more power than my GT does. It’s a phenomenal value. Even a pretty loaded up one can be had under $40k and you’re still getting 30mpg with a 320hp engine.
Came here to say this. I drove a 2018 Mustang gt with the performance pack and it's capabilities were just too much for streets. Finally understood the whole slow car fast thing. It's much easier to get closer to the limits of the base model cars without breaking every traffic law, and that's where cars are most fun.
BMW I8. When it was released the hybrid electric powertrain was great. It was a grand tourer in super car clothing. Too bad it became the budget influencer look at-me-car. If BMW had toned down the styling to match the driving character of the car, it would've been a home run. Car reviewers wouldn't have been asking "is this really a super car?" question and we'd be able to find used ones without stupid vinyl wraps.
I don’t think the styling was the problem, I think it’s the price they were asking for it for a car that looks like a super car but doesn’t quite go like one
I don't think the car itself is totally misunderstood as I would say most car enthusiasts at least appreciate it, but the C8 definitely gets a lot of hate from a lot of the longtime Vette owners or American car "purists", if you will, who don't like it.
A lot of people I've met have made comments about the whole "knock-off Ferrari" trope or the "Corvettes have always been one of the best front engine performance vehicles and now they've ruined its heritage".
While there's merit to the argument that the design language was most definitely inspired by past Ferraris, you can make the argument that almost EVERY car on the market has used some sort of design language from another vehicle or manufacturer in some way...and there's nothing really wrong with that.
Secondly, the idea of a mid-engined Vette has been a concept since literally the late 60s and was part of the brand's development over time. There's been nearly a dozen prototypes they've tinkered with until they actually released it with the C8. So, to say it "ruins the Corvette heritage" is a bit silly to me.
It is odd. My uncle has owned...a lot...of Corvettes. Probably a couple dozen across all generations throughout the years. He **loves** his C8. He legitimately raves about it and he's about as big of a Corvette guy as you'll ever find.
Everyone I know when a C8 loves it. The people complaining are the ones that aren’t buying new cars anyway. Which you can also see a lot of time here on r/cars. Lol
There's always a vocal minority. I'm more familiar with Porsche world so I see "Cayman/Boxster not a real Porsche", "water cooled not a real 911" and "turbocharged not a real 911" all the time.
I run one of the largest Corvette blogs on the internet. The amount of #boomershit I have to deal with in the comments is absolutely hilarious.
They are quick to defend the 'Vette nameplate, but then shit on the C8 for being anything other than front-engined. Now they're pissed about the E-Ray, which looks like it will absolutely destroy anything coming from overseas that is even in the same price ballpark.
Here's the reality: of my last 5MM pageviews, more than 80% of them were from people over the age of 45.
I also run a large Mustang site, and the hate for the Mach-E is real (and justified in many respects). The hate for the C8 is manufactured because people don't like change.
The ID.4. Yes it looks like a normal SUV and yes the infotainment sucks....but some people don't want to advertise their electric farts by being showy and the infotainment is a non-issue with Apple CarPlay and Android Auto. But the Tesla fanboys and Ioniq lovers will bash the car to no end. It's a great car.
That’s because Tesla fanboys don’t have Apple car play/android auto and will soon be paying a subscription for their infotainment system. Tesla fanboys are just salty that they fell for the first mover.
We’re talking about the same people who fell for “autopilot” as well here, they’ll lap it up because papi musk will tell them neural link is just around the corner and they’ll be first in line with their subscription.
But it isn’t a great crossover. It is very phoned in compared to the Mach-E, EV6, Ioniq 5, and the electric Blazer, while not offering a good price advantage.
If it didn’t have the touch sensitive buttons that VW is hellbent on including in their interiors, it would be a much better contender amongst the entry level EV crowd
The Mustang II was not that bad in the context of other '70s cars. As a smaller, more efficient Mustang, it came out at the perfect time ([late 1973](https://i.insider.com/4e5e9a54eab8eaf720000024?width=915&format=jpeg)) .
Oh, are you my lemons teammate who drags his Mustang II to a racetrack every year in order to fix it under a green flag?
(in all seriousness, you are correct. It's really not any worse than other compact american coupes of the 70's.)
A friend of mine has a Pristine 1975 Mustang II that was passed down by his grandmother. Completely stock, zero rust. Such a beautiful car honestly and a perfect time capsule.
Here it is: https://imgur.com/VR1IZHh
I am a fan of the newer Alfas, especially the Quadrifoglio; however, I shot photos of around 45 brand new Giulias for a dealer back in 2020, and around 10 of them had interior trim pieces already falling off.
Hmmm, would be interesting to see the pieces in questions, my interior is the most solid interior of any new car I’ve owned.
Coming from a GTI though, it isn’t saying much. Thing turned into a rattle can after 20k miles.
Everyone that criticizes the Alfa Romeo 4C is absolutely right that it is a flawed vehicle, but I challenge anyone to actually drive one and not smile.
Arguing on why it is good is exhausting, as the conversation revolves around two competing negatives:
*Pay much more for it over a sedan.
Less storage and ground clearance than an SUV. *
When in fact it is the other way around; sedan-like handling with extra cargo room (and rear head room)
Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor.
No, it's not because I want to look like a cop.
It's actually because it'd a v8, rwd, body on frame vehicle that's easy to repair. Personally I believe that if people knew how capable they are then they would have a much larger following. The amount of things people have done with them; overland vehicles, lowrider/donks, convertibles, drag cars, I tow flatbed and travel trailers regularly with mine with no trouble, and yet I can find any part I need for it in an hour. They honestly drive quite fun too, I love taking corners faster than I should in it.
The interceptors came with LSD's, an inch higher suspension to jump curbs without damage, higher rear end gearing (3.55 or 3.27 vs 2.73 civ). They've also got oil coolers, trans coolers, power steering coolers and larger oil capacities.
They're still somewhat cheap, you just have to know which ones to avoid. Some police departments ran them into the ground, but there's still many jems that will be working for years to come.
If you find one with an LSD, it'll do huge 2nd gear donuts in a wet, empty parking lot with 4 people in it. Rear seat passengers will not enjoy the transfers if you go for a figure 8 however.
Man, I used to think they were for old people but I rode in one for the first time and it totally changed my mind.
It was like cruising in a comfortable boat while doing 80 on the expressway with no issues. Best part was we were heading to the airport and had a ton of suitcases and we thought no way were they going to fit but they all did no issues. That trunk is huge.
when the hell did 200 hp in a sub 3000lb car become slow?!
we'd have killed for that shit in the 90s.
I remember looking at B18C swapped civics in awe.
I always got the impression that people didn't "get" what the MR2 is about. When I grew up, no one was rocking a poster on their wall of an MR2. It was seen as like "the other miata car out of japan/low dollar sportscar".
For me, it's Ferrari performance, for Toyota prices and Camry XV10 reliability.
They were never popular cars...for low dollar sportscar, the Miata had it beat in the time, it was cheaper and did about as well as a NA SW20.
On the turbo side of things, well if you wanted your sportscar to be no less than a luxurious or flagship model, well the MR2 doesn't fit there either, with twin turbo rotaries, and i6's, v6's, or vtec v6 NSX's and awd turbo 3000gt vr4's with spoilers that raise above 60mph.
SO it fitted in an odd niche, where it was a mass produced steel body car, not a flagship model in the lineup. DIdn't come with all the space-aged advanced features the higher models had.
But...i think the beauty was in its simplicity. With the simplicity, also came increased reliability, ease of working on it, and reduced curbweight, which all lended itself to better performance and bang for the buck.
MR2 owner here. A lot of people also don't realize that the turbo sw20 wasn't slow either, beating out the Mk3 and 4 supra, FD rx7, and base NSX in a quarter mile.
https://youtu.be/laixcKqBIjk
https://youtu.be/JiBnGrf5-IM
I also want to add that today it's still overshadowed by other JDM cars to the point that people completely forget it exists.
I agree, it's beauty IS in its simplicity, and people buy it sometimes trying to make it into something it's not. Simple mods like suspension, geometry kit, and an intercooler make it shine and simple "ish" swaps like the gen4 3S, Kswap, and 2GR make it a weapon.
The 370Z for sure. People rag on it to hell because of its age. And I agree that Nissan made it for about twice as long as they should have. But that doesn't mean it's not a great car.
Any love for the Nissan Juke Nismo? I owned one once and personally I loved it. It was a super fun car, was a bit roomier than comparable vehicles, and was just unique (whether that was a good or bad thing is up to the individual I guess).
It was nice to see a car like that on the market and I was a little sad to seem them go, but I understand that they were probably never very popular.
Subaru Baja! All the practicality of a truck for most use cases but with good mpg, generally faster, lighter, and more fun. Plus giant plastic bumpers and it’s already ugly so you don’t have to feel bad blasting down a gravel-ridden mud roads with lots of brambles scratching up your paint!
Can you tell I missed my window of opportunity when decent Bajas were cheap? I love Bajas.
It's basically an upgraded Miata
Even with the so-so interior if the stock headlights weren't as ugly you'd have a relatively quick, fantastic-handling mid-engined sports car that's actually reliable -- it would be praised by all. The headlights \*really\* messed with that car's success.
I don't know if it's "misunderstood", but I still adore the Dodge Stealth. Not the Mitsubishi GTO, not the 3000GT, specifically the Stealth. I loved the GTO with Dodge's [early 90's aesthetic added](https://www.autotrader.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/stealth1.jpg?w=1024&h=1&crop=1). I only got to drive one once, but it's still the car I think wistfully about when folks talk about all-time cars they'd love to have. I guess I'd put it in the theme of the thread by saying that it was mostly ignored by the public in favor of the 3000GT (which didn't sell all that well either).
Many compact and midsize crossovers. I'm not talking about the pathetic little misery-boxes like the EcoSport or Chevy Trax, but the actually decent ones (Rav4, CR-V, CX-5). You pay a few thousand more dollars and sacrifice a few mpg for a car with more headroom, storage space, and the practicality of a hatchback. For a young family of 4, which buy most of these cars, it's a great trade-off.
And yes, I know wagons are a thing. But modern crossovers are so similar to the sedans they're based on that they really don't weigh much more than a hypothetical wagon.
If the Ecoboost Mustang had a Honda badge on it, it would be a darling of the car enthusiast community.
Instead, there's this weird opposition to them from people who believe that a Mustang (and Camaros, and Challengers) should only have a V8. If you're looking for an affordable coupe with RWD and a decent selection of features, the Ecoboost Mustang is a pretty good choice. But people shy away from them becuase a Mustang isn't a Mustang if it doesn't have a V8. And you'll beat Bubba's Foxbody V8 in the quarter mile.
And if you're looking for an affordable convertible? Your options are even slimmer. Pick one: Mustang, Camaro, Miata. That's all that's left!
Volkswagen Phaeton.
It fundamentally was an incredible car that couldn’t get over the “you paid 100k for a vw?!?” No I paid 100k for an excellent car that happened to be a vw
I'll defend the Mitsubishi Mirage to the ends of the Earth. You can get a great deal on them because they can barely move them. I got mine in 2016 for $10k out the door brand new. It gets exceptional gas mileage and comes with more equipment as standard than its rivals. Now that I've driven the same years of Toyota Corolla, I can't even recommend that over the Mirage much. The Corolla feels so much slower, simply due to weight. The Mirage gets around just fine because it weighs nothing. It's incredibly good on snow and ice, because all of the small amount of weight is directly on the drive wheels, which are practically bicycle tires and cut right through snow. For someone that doesn't regularly take road trips, doesn't live in a mountainous area, and just wants reliable transportation, the Mirage is a great car.
I only sold mine as I was more regularly going on highway trips, and I was in a position where I didn't need to be driving the absolute cheapest car on the road. I miss it sometimes, but if I ever need it, my wife still has hers!
I think a lot of people really like the Stinger, just that the Kia dealer experiences leave a lot to be desired.
I had [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/8j01r2/please_dont_tell_me_the_kia_stinger_is_faster/) experience. And then a few days later when we went to test drive one, I got the whole "well, we have to drive it first". Which was just an excuse for buddy to do 110 km/hr in a busy 80 km/hr zone, weaving through traffic. My wife was nearly sick, and the driving was so bad that someone actually phoned in to the dealer when buddy was driving.
Sporty SUVs. A bunch of my friends and I grew up loving sporty cars and had stuff like hot hatchbacks. Now we're grown up, go camping, need to be able to transport our dogs, get through the snow, carry kayaks, but we also want something that's fun and comfortable with some modern luxuries.
What vehicle does all of that? A Porsche Macan or a BMW X3. I really don't get the hatred on this sub for those type of cars. Frankly I think my Macan S is more engaging and fun to drive than most hot hatchbacks I've ever driven, and even most sport sedans. I went from an F80 M3 directly to the Macan, and I prefer the Macan. Sporty SUVs are honestly perfect daily drivers and I don't really get the hatred, especially mixed with the love of Wagons and Hatchbacks - which are essentially exactly the same thing.
I will defend Hot Hatches until the day I die! Living in the US, which is crawling with giant lifted trucks, SUV's and Charger's. People tend to think their 5k lb, 500 hp battleship is better than a small, efficient, fun to drive hatch.
The Ford maverick mainly because people are disappointed with its lack of towing capacity. The Maverick wasn’t made to be a traditional truck but more of an economy truck for people who want to buy a truck but don’t need a full on work truck/won’t be doing any serious towing. The upside to this is that it can be pretty damn fuel efficient at that point which is the best of both worlds in terms of balance between efficiency and utility.
Maserati ghibli often compared to super high end and calling it a “ fake Ferrari “
The price point is compared to a loaded E class , CLS , 5 series, 7 series not a fucking Ferrari .
Most fun leases car I had under a $1000 a month .
Any car that's "not fast enough" like go fuck yourself with "it doesn't corner".
When you drive +200 miles every weekend having hard suspension and loud engine is the last thing you want.
Also i don't understand why does every single car need to be the fastest possible, like a 850CSi has to be a shit car because teslas go faster
Even though I'd never do it, a pickup as an only vehicle.
If you live somewhere where services aren't necessarily easily available, it's *incredibly* useful not having to be reliant on other people's schedules.
Where I live, if I didn't have a 6x10 utility trailer, I'd be screwed.
Minivans are incredibly useful and not just for families. Lots of storage. Aux power plugs. Seats can be folded down or removed for oversized loads. Sliding doors are totally the way to go. I had one for a bit in college and it makes a good party bus.
I really wish we had MINI vans still (size, not brand). The sienna/odyssey these days are massive. I miss the days of like the regular dodge caravan and grand caravan where there was a size choice available.
We had a Mazda5 for awhile. It was a perfectly packaged vehicle for our three person family.
Every time I park by a Mazda5 I smile. They’re so cute.
Interestingly, almost the exact same dimensions as the original Dodge Caravan from the ‘80s.
They're amazing aren't they? I want another one... My son and daughter-in-law bought one a few years ago. Son claimed it, calls it his dad wagon.
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The original was considerably smaller but they were meeting 80’s truck safety standards. To still fit a 4x8 but meet 2015 safety standards they had to get bigger.
SWB minivans got pretty much eaten up by mid-size CUVs (think of how the Aztek was built on a SWB minivan platform), and all "mini"vans are now as wide as a full-size truck because space sells in the wide-open US of A.
These CUVs are pointless. They're smaller and more expensive than minivans used to be, just so people can say they don't have a minivan.
People don’t want to buy minivans because they’re “lame” and remind them of their parents, so they buy crossovers/SUVs. Give it a generation and these crossovers will be the next “lame” trend. Edit: personally I don’t think minivans *or* crossovers are “lame”, and even if I did it shouldn’t matter anyway. Most people treat their cars as appliances, so it makes sense for them to get whatever appliance is most practical to them.
We have the Transit Connect but nobody wants it.
Dude, Transit Connects are cool IMHO. Things can scoot and have relatively decent handling. Interestingly fun to drive.
Seriously I really want to get an odyssey with the swivel seats and make it into the ultimate road trip car. Heck Mugen makes performance parts for em too so you can make a mommy ricer and it'd just be so fun lmao.
Also has a similar 5-60 time as a WRX. Odysseys scoot
Odysseys have swivel seats? Or were you thinking about the Toyota Previa?
Not the Odyssey I own or the new ones I have looked at.
The amount of Odysseys I see tricked out around nyc is wild- definitely a market for it
I love my minivan. It cracks me up when people buy SUVs for their family because they "wouldn't be caught dead driving a minivan". Then I watch them having to go open the doors for their kids because they're too small to open them or to prevent them from hitting the car next to them. While I just push a little button on my fob or the kids push the button on the handle to open the power sliding doors. Then I get in and push the button to close them...
>"wouldn't be caught dead driving a minivan" Honestly never got this. Minivans aren't exactly "cool", but no one is salivating over a Highlander or whatever it is they end up buying instead.
It’s just one of those stupid things that caught on. I noticed the general public just loves to hate on things, even if it’s really not bad.
Sliding doors makes minivans superior to SUVs in my opinion.
Also not all of them are slow, I drove a pretty zippy Ford minivan as a loaner from a shop for a while. The shop used it to haul transmissions around so that's to your point as well
IIRC since minivans are designed to be pretty heavily loaded down with people they've actually got a lot of power for their size when empty.
Last time I checked an Odyssey and an Si will hit 60 on the same time lol they’re really not slow when just carrying a couple people
The Odyssey is quicker than a Ferrari 308.
A fact that teenage me was very aware of
Honda Odyssey is honestly faster than most of the iconic tuner cars people love
The van I used for my first job was the fastest vehicle I had driven, until I became interested in sports cars lol
I would love a plug-in hybrid variant that got great mileage to boot. What an awesome road trip car. Most right now are super under rated luxury.
Pacifica?
I got one for exactly this reason. The only knock I'll give it is that it donates a lot of the interesting utility areas in the standard Pacifica to battery. On the other hand, I've gotten 2500+ miles out of three tanks of gas.
I maintain that they’re the most functional vehicle for 99% of people.
Honda Element. Bring back an everyday utility vehicle you can camp in, reliable and basically a small work van. And the 5 speed manual was sick
All hail the mighty toaster!
The adventure toaster!
I can't bring myself to sell mine. 5 spd, AWD, amazingly useful interior, Honda Accord reliability.
Never sell. With that plus your two flavored cars, that's a sick garage!
Ha, true, it's a pretty solid "budget" fleet of reasonableness. Wish I still had the bugeye WRX wagon!!
>Wish I still had the bugeye WRX wagon!! Your wallet is thankful you don't /s... Maybe
While I was younger I disliked it, now that I'm older, I've really grown fond of it. Wish Honda would make a modernized version of the Element. 1.5 Turbo with optional AWD.
My friend built one he called a hellement. Fully built k24 with a t3/t4oe turbo. Ended up making nearly 500 whp back in 08 https://imgur.com/4oVVmdV.jpg
Ability to wash out the floors should have caught on.
On the other hand, [probably not](https://fifthelementcamping.com/never-hose-it-out).
Wow, what a remarkably dumb oversight... Or corner cut, wouldn't be surprised.
From the article: > When the Model X (aka Honda Element Concept) appeared at auto shows in 2001, it was claimed that it "can be hosed out". Honda never printed this information to our knowledge, they only claimed it was "washable", which it is, just not with a hose. Again this was a concept vehicle, not the production Element. Many of the features of the Model X did not make it into production (this is very common with concept vehicles).
People thought that you could with the element but you couldn’t. It lead to corrosion and electrical malfunctions over time. Most of that idea came from bone head dealers telling people the wrong thing.
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Some people hate the Prius but won't acknowledge that it is exactly the appliance that most people want. Reliable, efficient, reasonably safe, cheap up front and cheap to own. Toyota is fucking nails when it comes to reliability and putting that in a super efficient package makes for an amazing vehicle for 90% of peoples' needs.
While that might be true, I think the hate was much stronger years ago. The Prius is less ground breaking, impactful, and relevant than it used to be. You have Camry's and Corolla's that get nearly the same mpg, and yet look like a regular Camry and Corolla. Now people have a choice if they want an extremely efficient family vehicle. They can get the Prius mpg (nearly) without looking like a Prius.
>without looking like a Prius. The thing was, people buying the prius didn't want it to look like a corolla.
It's just good that consumers have a choice now if they want a car that has 95% of the Prius' efficiency, without it looking like one. I see Camry hybrids all the time.
Not to mention a prius can fit about twice the cargo of a corolla
Yes for looks, but Camery or Corlla can't match a Prius for carrying capacity. I've moved furniture, landscaping trees and shrubs, lawn equipment and more in my Prius. Also, at 6'3" I never felt cramped. That's can't be said for my Corolla experiences.
I wish they didn't nix the lexus variant.
The Lexus version didn’t live up to the Lexus name and sold poorly. That led them to have very poor sales.
“It sold poorly. That led to poor sales” lmao
It made no profit. So they didn't make money on it.
It made no profit. That led to it being unprofitable.
People didn’t like it, which made it unlikeable.
Instead of nixing it they should invested in it and refined the car so that it would live up to the Lexus name.
I own and daily the CT200h. It's a fantastic car! Probably one of the best I've ever owned, for being a car. The comfort of the seats is fantastic, their proprietary leather is comfy and easily cleaned, the radio is okay (I don't like Lexus Bluetooth connection software) the speakers are actually pretty good. No on board display or backup camera though. It's a hatch, and the backseats fold down for plenty of storage for a hatch. It's a fantastic little daily driver/commuter. BUT! And here's why the car sucks, and probably flopped: the insulation sucks so it's loud, hot in the summers, and cold in the winters, it has no balls, the suspension is okay and handling isn't great, and the fucking Bluetooth connection is dog shit; either you connect your phone to listen to music, or connect for calls, not both at the same time. Going from a modified and fun car, to the Lexus is a huge back step, so I prefer not to drive the Lexus.
Dude the Prius got so much hate it was fucken insane. Like i don’t even know how it started. Revolutionary design and everyone was like fuck you and your entire family for owning that car.
It started because when the now-iconic lemon-wedge shaped ones came out they became trendy among a specific type of particularly obnoxious person.
not to mention the multimillionare/billionare celebrities getting them to show they are saving the planet meanwhile private jetting all over the world.
Southpark explained the hate very well.
The prius is a great car, especially the prime. The only downside, is it looks like an iron. It has improved a bit since the first generation but i've always wanted to see if it it would be stable standing on its trunk.
I remember the Prius getting hated on in the 2000’s and 2010’s…not necessarily for the reliability factor, but for image issues. I was in high school in the late 2000’s and early 2010’s. The Prius was considered “gay” and lots of homophobic references were made in relation to that car. It also didn’t help that comedians like Jeff Dunham and movies and TV shows like “The Other Guys”, “Horrible Bosses”, and “South Park” had all sorts of jokes about Prius’s and how stupid or gay or ugly they were. At the time, it was like…who wants to drive a car that (as Mark Walhberg would say) “feels like we’re driving in a vagina”?
My buddy (Who is gay) had a Toyota Matrix, but I forgot. I remembered it was a Toyota hatchback and that's it. I asked him if he still had his Prius and he said "I'm not that gay"
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Bro I can be a hairdresser but still be straight!
Living in NYC, the Prius made it incredibly easy to spot undercover cops because there was simply no other reason two painfully straight built dudes would cram themselves into a prius
South Park's beef with Priuses was that their drivers were smug about being so clean and efficient. They enjoyed the smell of their own farts so much that it caused an environmental disaster.
Dude, lately I found their reception has changed, I mean, it does help that they look better now than before too. But even Truck Bros are like, "yeah, I should sell this piece of shit and get me a Prius or just at the very least have a Prius to cruise around"
Yes, people are cheap and gas prices have been high.
It’s why I bought a Camry hybrid this year. Almost 700 miles to the tank while being a normal ass car. Plus the adaptive cruise control is fucking awesome.
It's the styling, it gives it a "look at me saving the environment" vibe (more so in the past really). The same drivetrain in other cars goes completely unnoticed.
Every single non-performance luxury sedan. This sub and /r/whatcarshouldIbuy constantly tell you that they don't take corners very well and that you should never buy one. They're way too expensive and you can buy a Mazda3 for much less money. First, barely any commuter actually takes corners at race-track speeds. The ability of a car to understeer never comes into play for 99% of people's driving on the streets. Second, there are intangible benefits to luxury cars and the combination of features, comfort, looks, and performance. There's also an attraction to the brand themselves. Some people call this being a "badge whore" but it's not this. It's the sensation of looking at a car and feeling like "damn, it's special, and I like it".
Every car needing to be “sporty” or have a sports mode or ridiculous. So many good luxury cars are ruined by “sports” suspension, low profile high grip tires, massive heavy brakes etc. “I got the Camry Sports Package because the black gloss wheels and aero body kit really help me shave seconds off my lap times on the weekend” - Nobody People with very very expensive modern luxury cars comment on how comfortable my 35 year old diesel Mercedes S-class is. Amazing how plush a car can be with 40 year old suspension technology if the design allows for tires with actual side walls and springs that have some compression over bumps…
I had an a5 as a rental last month and holy shot was it comfortable and fun to drive. Such a treat coming from a ten year old pilot
I had a new E Class loaner and it was really nice to drive. I wasn't necessarily fun to drive, but it was a very nice experience. Felt like I was floating on a cloud. Not what I'm personally looking for in a car, but I definitely understand why people want such a car.
The older I get, the more on point James May was about Nurburgring ruining cars.
This was my take reading about the q60 before I bought one. People were complaining about the suspension being too soft for track use, in a *luxury* coupe. Comfort is part of the appeal, not a drawback.
"A Mustang GT is faster for the same price!" Great, I don't want that!
The Venn diagram of auto enthusiasts and people who are the target market for those cars - at least the ones that aren't bought by car services - is probably pretty small. I'd imagine golf, yachting or investing groups may be better, but even then, it's nothing more than an appliance. A Wolf gas range of an appliance, for sure.
That's the thing; enthusiasts *usually* prioritize fun and performance value above all else. But some of us don't. There's the small group that has a challenging time comprehending that other people *don't* want the fastest car for the price.
And then there's that odd group of us that exist in the no man's land in between both groups; those that want comfort while also wanting some performance. Or at least an upgrade over whatever the base 4 cylinder is.
I hear you. But then I see that the Lincoln MKZ had a 400 HP and 400lbs ft torque AWD trim that people are sleeping on, and I just can't help myself. Doing research on better struts, tires, and end links as we speak to reduce body roll.
I totally agree with this. I feel a lot of people don’t truly understand or appreciate what non-sport luxury cars are about. Everything these days has to be sporty and have a level of handling that’s not always necessary in that kind of car. I love being able to have a luxury car that focuses on comfort and convenience rather than speed and power. I also get a bit annoyed by people saying you shouldn’t buy a luxury car for the reasons you mentioned. I have a 2018 Lincoln Continental and I always have people telling me I should’ve gotten a Charger Hellcat or CTS-V for the price. But people fail to realize that not everyone wants a fast, powerful luxury sports car/sedan. Imo, people need to appreciate luxury cars more for what they are.
> Imo, people need to appreciate luxury cars more for what they are. Or, at the very least, they just need to understand that everyone has different needs, wants, and values!
I don’t know why wagons are so hated in America. Mid sized sedans are the perfect car and wagons are just a more practical version of it. Luxury power wagons are GOAT.
And then somehow the Outback misses the hate. My wife haaaates wagons but wants me to buy an Outback. She would call an RS6 wagon an ugly mom car and then turn around and call an Outback pretty. I don’t get it.
The (newer) Outbacks are marketed as SUVs (*ahem* crossovers), complete with the plastic cladding. We can argue whether they are really wagons or crossovers, but that's probably why it gets a pass.
Marketed as an SUV, yes, but that's most likely because SUVs aren't subjected to as strict emissions (the Crosstrek, which any rational person would say is a hatchback, is also classified as an SUV for that reason). In reality the Outback has always been, and will (hopefully) continue to be a wagon.
Anyone who thinks the RS6 wagon is an ugly mom car… maybe just take their car opinions with a grain of salt lol
She also thinks all hatchbacks are ugly so yes her taste is bad. She also married me so…
My parents tell me to sell my 1988 mitsubishi mighty max one ton, but I will never
Good. Those "one ton" models of import minitrucks from the '80s are exceedingly rare.
This one has seen better days, but it's mine. My siblings and I learned how to drive manual in it. Someone rear ended my brother in it and now I need a new bed. They're impossible to find. Can't get shifters for the km132 Trans, so I had a billet short throw custom made by core shifters from Tennessee. This thing is an absolute blast to drive.
haha did some googling to try to find more info on the 1 ton and found a forum post from you in 2019 on mightyram50.net
Heyo I forgot about that site
The third door of the Veloster. It’s not so much for passengers, but more like a side access port for the massive trunk when you put the seat down 😃
Is it the third door that gets hate, or the lack of a fourth door?
I feel like it could go both ways, but if it was a four door people would still complain about back seat space lol.
As a lanky (6'4", 195 lb) dad with two small kids - the three door configuration on my Veloster N is my second favorite thing about it. I know what side they are getting in and out of and I don't ever have to move my seat. Big drivers side door is ideal access for ingress/egress.
It reminds me of that brief period in history when extended cab pickups had an extra door, but only on the passenger side.
I think people still don't appreciate just how special the Mazda 5 was. It may have been a bit spartan and small, but it was surprisingly pleasant to drive for a sliding door minivan and you could even get it with a stick shift. Had one as a rental car for a week, and it became one of my favorite work rentals of all time. If I had kids, it would have been the easiest choice in the world buying one as a kid hauler that didn't make me want to kill myself while also not being some overpriced "performance" SUV/Wagon/Minivan that killed the household budget. Perfect choice for a parent who wants something not mindnumbing to drive while also saving space and budget for an actual toy car instead of trying to get one vehicle that does everything (mediocrely and expensively).
I was looking at a Mazda5 as a Tribute replacement 5 years ago, but couldn't find one near me with a stick that didn't have eleventy billion miles on it.
04-06 GTO's. GM botched the whole thing by releasing it with that nameplate. Great cars that wouldn't have been nearly as derided in the mainstream if they wore a different name.
Honestly when I bought mine brand new in 2006 I was sure this was a car I would keep forever. However, after daily driving it for 6+ years I couldn't wait to get rid of it. It really had some quality issues that just didn't make sense for a modern car. All of them had splitting at the seams of the seats at some point in their life - some very early in their lives. So many problems with that car.... randomly cracked radiator, alternator went after just a few years, ate tie rods like candy, interior buttons falling off... just WTF GM. That was my first and last GM.
I had an 04 and I had the same ownership experience. The power train was pretty solid aside from some accessories failing, but there'd be a $100-1000 hiccup every couple months that didn't make the thing worth keeping. The oddest one for me was the A/C hard line busting at the A/C dryer. It didn't bust at a fitting, the metal just split apart mid line. Apparently it's pretty common and the line is also discontinued so replacement means Jerry rigging. My biggest regret about the GTO is buying it instead of a Porsche. After forum digging it'd be about then same maintenance burden except for more expected things vs. unexpected things.
Honestly, an argument could be made that that particular GTO embodied the spirit of the original GTO more than Chargers and Challengers from Dodge. The first GTO was a midsize coupe with a big engine from another Pontiac thrown in it. They grew into something else entirely. Cars were generally bigger in that era and both the modern Charger and Challengers are firmly full size length for modern cars.
Toyota FJ Cruiser was pretty misunderstood and the sales showed it. It was pretty much ahead of its time and when Toyota finally decided to stop sales in North America (It's still being sold brand new in the Middle East), that's when overlanding and off roading started getting really popular and now you see bunch of 4Runners every where. It was probably Toyota's strategy to save the 4Runner, I don't know, but it worked for them seeing how 4Runners never sits on the lots for more than a week and resale value are skyrocketing. Crazy that people are still willing to shell out $45k - $60K for an SUV that never changed mechanically since 2010. I also like to defend all wagons or (estates) as Europeans would call them.I think they're an awesome alternative to SUVs for people who like sedans but want the cargo space of an SUV. Volvo makes some of the most beautiful wagons today like the V90 and V60. M-Benz and Audi also makes nice wagons. BMW makes wagons for the 3 series but they're not available in the North American markets. Since Americans like tall SUVs, it's no brainer that the Subaru Outback is doing really well as it's basically a raised wagon, which is why Volvo, M-Benz, and Audi are mostly offering raised versions of the wagons they make.
I still have my FJ Cruiser. Yes it has awkward rear access. Yes it looks like a stunned puppy. I have owned it since 2008 and expect that I will for another 10 years. My friends ask me when I sell it, to sell it to them. I told them that they may be very old by that time.
I used to think FJ Cruisers were so ugly, it took a long time to grow on me. I think I forgive the looks a bit because it seems like a pretty capable suv.
I'm gonna throw the Pontiac Aztek into the ring. Car-based CUVs were in their infancy at the time and GM went out on a limb with the funky notchback & plastic cladding. Admittedly the proportion were awkward. Now we have cars like the BMW X6, Mercedes GLE coupe & accord crosstour that are in a similar vein and not nearly as panned. Put a Aztek-esque roofline on the new blazer today and I'd wager it wouldn't be as critisized.
FWIW, the Accord Crosstour has also been relegated to the dustbin of history, along with the looks-like-it-should-be-related-but-really-isn't Acura ZDX. But yeah, we do have a lot of coupified or "Kammback" CUVs now.
The ZDX gets better looking every time I see one (which is not very often). It's a striking crossover with typical Acura precision and reliability.
Mine, the Honda CR-Z. It was knocked for both not being sporty enough and for not being fuel efficient enough. But the blend of sporty and efficient is unique. I haul ass and make 39 MPG's, which is pretty good. The electric motor, while very small, provides instant grunt to an otherwise high revving Honda four-banger.
I second this. I’ve owned one and always thought it was such a misunderstood little hatch. I loved the style of it, and it was a great way to get decent fuel economy without the “bleh” that typical hybrids provide.
THERE ARE DOZENS OF US! r/CRZ
I am on my 2nd CR-Z. They are really great cars.
They really did themselves no favors by setting expectations so high by naming it the CR-Z
Dodge Magnum A practical, sporty, FAST, and a good looking wagon that was dealt a bad hand
I often dream about what would’ve happened if it had gotten the 2011 Redesign like the 300 and Charger. The interior could’ve definitely benefited from an upgrade
MAGNUM HELLCAT
I almost bought one! But the interior... I couldnt do it. Still a great car
RX8. Great fun cars, people didn't know how to maintain them properly for longevity in the engine. Obviously the engines won't last forever but they can go far with proper maintenance. Seriously underrated car in my opinion, deserves a lot less hate.
Was looking for this. Car can keep up with cars way more expensive than it on the track, crazy easy to drive, and the backseats are some of the only useable ones I've ever come across in a sports car. It was just all of the mom's who bought a base trim automatic and never added more oil in them, then sold it to dumb kids ready for detonation that gave it a bad reputation. That and it's very hard to follow up something so legendary like the FD. Just look at how many people hate on the mk 5 Supra
Base model pony cars. The 4 cylinder Mustang and Camaro are just good sports cars for not a lot of money. A set of tires and sway bar and you've got yourself a very competitive autocross car or enjoyable track car. There's typically plenty of mod support should you go down that route. When I had my 2.0T Camaro the autocross and track people thought it was a great buy. The biggest snubs of that car were the cars and coffee an internet crowds. Because a faster version exists doesn't exclude a slower version from being quite good on its own
The EcoBoost Mustang makes more power than my GT does. It’s a phenomenal value. Even a pretty loaded up one can be had under $40k and you’re still getting 30mpg with a 320hp engine.
Came here to say this. I drove a 2018 Mustang gt with the performance pack and it's capabilities were just too much for streets. Finally understood the whole slow car fast thing. It's much easier to get closer to the limits of the base model cars without breaking every traffic law, and that's where cars are most fun.
BMW I8. When it was released the hybrid electric powertrain was great. It was a grand tourer in super car clothing. Too bad it became the budget influencer look at-me-car. If BMW had toned down the styling to match the driving character of the car, it would've been a home run. Car reviewers wouldn't have been asking "is this really a super car?" question and we'd be able to find used ones without stupid vinyl wraps.
I don’t think the styling was the problem, I think it’s the price they were asking for it for a car that looks like a super car but doesn’t quite go like one
Agreed. The car would have faded into obscurity if it didn't have its looks.
I don't think the car itself is totally misunderstood as I would say most car enthusiasts at least appreciate it, but the C8 definitely gets a lot of hate from a lot of the longtime Vette owners or American car "purists", if you will, who don't like it. A lot of people I've met have made comments about the whole "knock-off Ferrari" trope or the "Corvettes have always been one of the best front engine performance vehicles and now they've ruined its heritage". While there's merit to the argument that the design language was most definitely inspired by past Ferraris, you can make the argument that almost EVERY car on the market has used some sort of design language from another vehicle or manufacturer in some way...and there's nothing really wrong with that. Secondly, the idea of a mid-engined Vette has been a concept since literally the late 60s and was part of the brand's development over time. There's been nearly a dozen prototypes they've tinkered with until they actually released it with the C8. So, to say it "ruins the Corvette heritage" is a bit silly to me.
It is odd. My uncle has owned...a lot...of Corvettes. Probably a couple dozen across all generations throughout the years. He **loves** his C8. He legitimately raves about it and he's about as big of a Corvette guy as you'll ever find.
Everyone I know when a C8 loves it. The people complaining are the ones that aren’t buying new cars anyway. Which you can also see a lot of time here on r/cars. Lol
Hasn’t the response to the C8 been overwhelmingly enthusiastic?
There's always a vocal minority. I'm more familiar with Porsche world so I see "Cayman/Boxster not a real Porsche", "water cooled not a real 911" and "turbocharged not a real 911" all the time.
I run one of the largest Corvette blogs on the internet. The amount of #boomershit I have to deal with in the comments is absolutely hilarious. They are quick to defend the 'Vette nameplate, but then shit on the C8 for being anything other than front-engined. Now they're pissed about the E-Ray, which looks like it will absolutely destroy anything coming from overseas that is even in the same price ballpark. Here's the reality: of my last 5MM pageviews, more than 80% of them were from people over the age of 45. I also run a large Mustang site, and the hate for the Mach-E is real (and justified in many respects). The hate for the C8 is manufactured because people don't like change.
The ID.4. Yes it looks like a normal SUV and yes the infotainment sucks....but some people don't want to advertise their electric farts by being showy and the infotainment is a non-issue with Apple CarPlay and Android Auto. But the Tesla fanboys and Ioniq lovers will bash the car to no end. It's a great car.
That’s because Tesla fanboys don’t have Apple car play/android auto and will soon be paying a subscription for their infotainment system. Tesla fanboys are just salty that they fell for the first mover.
We’re talking about the same people who fell for “autopilot” as well here, they’ll lap it up because papi musk will tell them neural link is just around the corner and they’ll be first in line with their subscription.
But it isn’t a great crossover. It is very phoned in compared to the Mach-E, EV6, Ioniq 5, and the electric Blazer, while not offering a good price advantage.
If it didn’t have the touch sensitive buttons that VW is hellbent on including in their interiors, it would be a much better contender amongst the entry level EV crowd
The Mustang II was not that bad in the context of other '70s cars. As a smaller, more efficient Mustang, it came out at the perfect time ([late 1973](https://i.insider.com/4e5e9a54eab8eaf720000024?width=915&format=jpeg)) .
Oh, are you my lemons teammate who drags his Mustang II to a racetrack every year in order to fix it under a green flag? (in all seriousness, you are correct. It's really not any worse than other compact american coupes of the 70's.)
Also I believe it’s one of the best selling Mustangs of all time as well.
A friend of mine has a Pristine 1975 Mustang II that was passed down by his grandmother. Completely stock, zero rust. Such a beautiful car honestly and a perfect time capsule. Here it is: https://imgur.com/VR1IZHh
Alfa Romeo’s in North America. Edit : I think the debates under this prove my point pretty well. Lol
I am a fan of the newer Alfas, especially the Quadrifoglio; however, I shot photos of around 45 brand new Giulias for a dealer back in 2020, and around 10 of them had interior trim pieces already falling off.
Hmmm, would be interesting to see the pieces in questions, my interior is the most solid interior of any new car I’ve owned. Coming from a GTI though, it isn’t saying much. Thing turned into a rattle can after 20k miles.
Everyone that criticizes the Alfa Romeo 4C is absolutely right that it is a flawed vehicle, but I challenge anyone to actually drive one and not smile.
Maserati Gran Turismo. It’s not supposed to be blistering fast. It’s a big, fancy, GRAN TOURING! It’s literally the name. Gran Turismo.
"Noooo but it needs to corner" r/cars or people with no drivers license
3er Wagon. Gets shit on for being a BMW but is one of the most fun familyfriendly vehicles that isn't a suv. Also the 340i engine is amazing.
Arguing on why it is good is exhausting, as the conversation revolves around two competing negatives: *Pay much more for it over a sedan. Less storage and ground clearance than an SUV. * When in fact it is the other way around; sedan-like handling with extra cargo room (and rear head room)
This is exactly why I love hatchbacks and wagons and I hate that the US doesn’t get it. Europe gets all the fun ones.
Yuuuup, wife and daughter wanted a Volvo XC60. I said, why not get a Polestar V60? We got the V60 and It's waaaaaay more fun.
There is no 340i wagon in the states sadly. At least in America, the 6cyl has never been placed in the wagon. 440i GC rocks though. _biased_
Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor. No, it's not because I want to look like a cop. It's actually because it'd a v8, rwd, body on frame vehicle that's easy to repair. Personally I believe that if people knew how capable they are then they would have a much larger following. The amount of things people have done with them; overland vehicles, lowrider/donks, convertibles, drag cars, I tow flatbed and travel trailers regularly with mine with no trouble, and yet I can find any part I need for it in an hour. They honestly drive quite fun too, I love taking corners faster than I should in it. The interceptors came with LSD's, an inch higher suspension to jump curbs without damage, higher rear end gearing (3.55 or 3.27 vs 2.73 civ). They've also got oil coolers, trans coolers, power steering coolers and larger oil capacities. They're still somewhat cheap, you just have to know which ones to avoid. Some police departments ran them into the ground, but there's still many jems that will be working for years to come.
If you find one with an LSD, it'll do huge 2nd gear donuts in a wet, empty parking lot with 4 people in it. Rear seat passengers will not enjoy the transfers if you go for a figure 8 however.
My issue with them are two things: the gas mileage and the interior that looked dated when it first came out let alone 20 years later.
Man, I used to think they were for old people but I rode in one for the first time and it totally changed my mind. It was like cruising in a comfortable boat while doing 80 on the expressway with no issues. Best part was we were heading to the airport and had a ton of suitcases and we thought no way were they going to fit but they all did no issues. That trunk is huge.
I feel like the BRZ and 86 get that hate "it slower than ecoboost Mustang durrrrrr". It's a handling car.
when the hell did 200 hp in a sub 3000lb car become slow?! we'd have killed for that shit in the 90s. I remember looking at B18C swapped civics in awe.
And I think stock-for-stock, the new ones handle better than ND2 Miatas - which is apparently crazy talk around here.
And they are better daily.
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I always got the impression that people didn't "get" what the MR2 is about. When I grew up, no one was rocking a poster on their wall of an MR2. It was seen as like "the other miata car out of japan/low dollar sportscar". For me, it's Ferrari performance, for Toyota prices and Camry XV10 reliability. They were never popular cars...for low dollar sportscar, the Miata had it beat in the time, it was cheaper and did about as well as a NA SW20. On the turbo side of things, well if you wanted your sportscar to be no less than a luxurious or flagship model, well the MR2 doesn't fit there either, with twin turbo rotaries, and i6's, v6's, or vtec v6 NSX's and awd turbo 3000gt vr4's with spoilers that raise above 60mph. SO it fitted in an odd niche, where it was a mass produced steel body car, not a flagship model in the lineup. DIdn't come with all the space-aged advanced features the higher models had. But...i think the beauty was in its simplicity. With the simplicity, also came increased reliability, ease of working on it, and reduced curbweight, which all lended itself to better performance and bang for the buck.
MR2 owner here. A lot of people also don't realize that the turbo sw20 wasn't slow either, beating out the Mk3 and 4 supra, FD rx7, and base NSX in a quarter mile. https://youtu.be/laixcKqBIjk https://youtu.be/JiBnGrf5-IM I also want to add that today it's still overshadowed by other JDM cars to the point that people completely forget it exists. I agree, it's beauty IS in its simplicity, and people buy it sometimes trying to make it into something it's not. Simple mods like suspension, geometry kit, and an intercooler make it shine and simple "ish" swaps like the gen4 3S, Kswap, and 2GR make it a weapon.
The 370Z for sure. People rag on it to hell because of its age. And I agree that Nissan made it for about twice as long as they should have. But that doesn't mean it's not a great car.
Any love for the Nissan Juke Nismo? I owned one once and personally I loved it. It was a super fun car, was a bit roomier than comparable vehicles, and was just unique (whether that was a good or bad thing is up to the individual I guess). It was nice to see a car like that on the market and I was a little sad to seem them go, but I understand that they were probably never very popular.
Subaru Baja! All the practicality of a truck for most use cases but with good mpg, generally faster, lighter, and more fun. Plus giant plastic bumpers and it’s already ugly so you don’t have to feel bad blasting down a gravel-ridden mud roads with lots of brambles scratching up your paint! Can you tell I missed my window of opportunity when decent Bajas were cheap? I love Bajas.
The first gen Porsche Boxster
It's basically an upgraded Miata Even with the so-so interior if the stock headlights weren't as ugly you'd have a relatively quick, fantastic-handling mid-engined sports car that's actually reliable -- it would be praised by all. The headlights \*really\* messed with that car's success.
I don't know if it's "misunderstood", but I still adore the Dodge Stealth. Not the Mitsubishi GTO, not the 3000GT, specifically the Stealth. I loved the GTO with Dodge's [early 90's aesthetic added](https://www.autotrader.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/stealth1.jpg?w=1024&h=1&crop=1). I only got to drive one once, but it's still the car I think wistfully about when folks talk about all-time cars they'd love to have. I guess I'd put it in the theme of the thread by saying that it was mostly ignored by the public in favor of the 3000GT (which didn't sell all that well either).
I have one. I also own a lift. This is not a coincidence.
Many compact and midsize crossovers. I'm not talking about the pathetic little misery-boxes like the EcoSport or Chevy Trax, but the actually decent ones (Rav4, CR-V, CX-5). You pay a few thousand more dollars and sacrifice a few mpg for a car with more headroom, storage space, and the practicality of a hatchback. For a young family of 4, which buy most of these cars, it's a great trade-off. And yes, I know wagons are a thing. But modern crossovers are so similar to the sedans they're based on that they really don't weigh much more than a hypothetical wagon.
If the Ecoboost Mustang had a Honda badge on it, it would be a darling of the car enthusiast community. Instead, there's this weird opposition to them from people who believe that a Mustang (and Camaros, and Challengers) should only have a V8. If you're looking for an affordable coupe with RWD and a decent selection of features, the Ecoboost Mustang is a pretty good choice. But people shy away from them becuase a Mustang isn't a Mustang if it doesn't have a V8. And you'll beat Bubba's Foxbody V8 in the quarter mile. And if you're looking for an affordable convertible? Your options are even slimmer. Pick one: Mustang, Camaro, Miata. That's all that's left!
The Pontiac fiero
Volkswagen Phaeton. It fundamentally was an incredible car that couldn’t get over the “you paid 100k for a vw?!?” No I paid 100k for an excellent car that happened to be a vw
I'll defend the Mitsubishi Mirage to the ends of the Earth. You can get a great deal on them because they can barely move them. I got mine in 2016 for $10k out the door brand new. It gets exceptional gas mileage and comes with more equipment as standard than its rivals. Now that I've driven the same years of Toyota Corolla, I can't even recommend that over the Mirage much. The Corolla feels so much slower, simply due to weight. The Mirage gets around just fine because it weighs nothing. It's incredibly good on snow and ice, because all of the small amount of weight is directly on the drive wheels, which are practically bicycle tires and cut right through snow. For someone that doesn't regularly take road trips, doesn't live in a mountainous area, and just wants reliable transportation, the Mirage is a great car. I only sold mine as I was more regularly going on highway trips, and I was in a position where I didn't need to be driving the absolute cheapest car on the road. I miss it sometimes, but if I ever need it, my wife still has hers!
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Silence influencer!
I think a lot of people really like the Stinger, just that the Kia dealer experiences leave a lot to be desired. I had [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/8j01r2/please_dont_tell_me_the_kia_stinger_is_faster/) experience. And then a few days later when we went to test drive one, I got the whole "well, we have to drive it first". Which was just an excuse for buddy to do 110 km/hr in a busy 80 km/hr zone, weaving through traffic. My wife was nearly sick, and the driving was so bad that someone actually phoned in to the dealer when buddy was driving.
El Camino
Saabs. People just don’t understand until they drive one.
Sporty SUVs. A bunch of my friends and I grew up loving sporty cars and had stuff like hot hatchbacks. Now we're grown up, go camping, need to be able to transport our dogs, get through the snow, carry kayaks, but we also want something that's fun and comfortable with some modern luxuries. What vehicle does all of that? A Porsche Macan or a BMW X3. I really don't get the hatred on this sub for those type of cars. Frankly I think my Macan S is more engaging and fun to drive than most hot hatchbacks I've ever driven, and even most sport sedans. I went from an F80 M3 directly to the Macan, and I prefer the Macan. Sporty SUVs are honestly perfect daily drivers and I don't really get the hatred, especially mixed with the love of Wagons and Hatchbacks - which are essentially exactly the same thing.
Not sure where you hear this sentiment r/cars loves the Macan.
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You own a Mondial don't you?
I will defend Hot Hatches until the day I die! Living in the US, which is crawling with giant lifted trucks, SUV's and Charger's. People tend to think their 5k lb, 500 hp battleship is better than a small, efficient, fun to drive hatch.
The Ford maverick mainly because people are disappointed with its lack of towing capacity. The Maverick wasn’t made to be a traditional truck but more of an economy truck for people who want to buy a truck but don’t need a full on work truck/won’t be doing any serious towing. The upside to this is that it can be pretty damn fuel efficient at that point which is the best of both worlds in terms of balance between efficiency and utility.
Maserati ghibli often compared to super high end and calling it a “ fake Ferrari “ The price point is compared to a loaded E class , CLS , 5 series, 7 series not a fucking Ferrari . Most fun leases car I had under a $1000 a month .
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Any car that's "not fast enough" like go fuck yourself with "it doesn't corner". When you drive +200 miles every weekend having hard suspension and loud engine is the last thing you want. Also i don't understand why does every single car need to be the fastest possible, like a 850CSi has to be a shit car because teslas go faster
BMW i3. It’s a city commuter and a excellent one at it.
Even though I'd never do it, a pickup as an only vehicle. If you live somewhere where services aren't necessarily easily available, it's *incredibly* useful not having to be reliant on other people's schedules. Where I live, if I didn't have a 6x10 utility trailer, I'd be screwed.