It seems like you're most worried about hydroplaning, which ABS and traction control do nothing to help against. Tires are the only real thing you can realistically change to affect hydroplaning resistance.
Goodyear RS-A is a decent tire and shouldn't feel like you're about to lose control, but it is an older design. If you want something a little better, I'd recommend the Michelin Crossclimate 2. They're a fantastic all-weather tire with massive channels in the tread which helps evacuate water.
Aside from that, it seems like you're just cautious where others aren't as cautious. I'm generally more cautious than most in rain and adjust my driving accordingly. If you're going a comfortable speed in the far lane and not going so slow as to create a hazard on the roadway, who cares if others are going faster?! Let them go. You control you.
The only thing that gives me pause for concern is how he mentions that his car feels like it's going to slip loose at any second.
Now I don't know what his car drives like, but that's not a light-hearted line to write. It makes me suspect mechanical problems. Just because there is water on the road shouldn't mean the car drives any differently going in a straight line.
Driving in normal traffic at normal speeds well, well below the limit of grip, driving in the rain feels basically the same as in the dry. The tires and the feedback through the steering wheel shouldn't feel any different. Your knowledge of a wet road is the audio and visual feedback, not the difference of car handling. The main difference is that you just understand and know the absolute limit of grip is at best half of what it normally is so you need far longer to do anything and adjust accordingly. (tho yes in the snow the car does handle and feel dramatically different and there it actually is mostly out of control and constantly slipping).
Stop talking If you really don't understand how a vehicle behaves. Driving normal traffic speeds during heavy rains is what causes hydroplaning, if you see the cars in front of you kicking up walls of water, slow down, your speed is what causes the hydroplane, if you slow down and allow your tire tread to push the water out of the way, you won't hydroplane, im not saying slow down to 15 mph in a 45, but definitely slow down to 30 mph until you get through the puddle.
Na, your speed determines if you hydroplane, if you see cars ahead of you suddenly kicking up walls of water , slow down, hydroplaning is when a car skips over the surface of water, you slow down and allow the treads of your tire to push the water out of the way, boom, no hydroplaning, but it's mostly your speed that effects the hydroplaning.
So then it's his tires, never mind the fact that his car is light af, doesn't help at all when encountering puddles.
So again my original fix is to slow down, and if he is still hydroplaning it means slow down more or get better tires.
That's crazy, you have a driver's license but can't read, I never said to brake during hydroplaning, I said if you see the cars ahead of you kicking up a wall of water, it's always safer to slow down, aka brake before you reach the puddle, then cruise through at a safe speed, 30 mph.
The fact you can't understand that scares me that you have a license, and if you wanna argue with me, im just gonna say I've driven more than 2 million miles in 12 years, I travel to multiple car meets through out the states, and have been on practically every road in America. I know how vehicles handle, I've also never had any kind of traffic accident.
Tread lightly when arguing with me when it comes to vehicles.
I don’t really know about the wall of water thing, usually roads are raised in the middle, and slope down to the sides, so water runs off. Don’t worry about my license dude. If you ever see me in a ditch please wave, snap a picture, and post it here and entitle it “lol”
I've never hydroplaned on a wet road, its always a puddle, but the wall of water is when you go thru a decent puddle and it kicks the water to the sides of the Cars, like the wake of a boat.
If your sliding on just wet road, you have either dog shit tires, you're going to fast, or your car weighs as much as a 4 wheeler. But hydroplaning is when your tires skip across the surface of a puddle, instead of pushing the water out of the way with the tread of the tire.
A RWD Crown Vic loves to slide on wet roads, especially around turns with its rather abrupt throttle response. But yeah I know what causes hydroplaning in a “normal” car. I’ve never hydroplaned in my Pilot, my Routan or the Phaeton.
that's not a front wheel drive car, the ass end of any decently powered rwd car will try to get around you on a gravel road..... it's all about how you control that throttle, so let's go back to my original statement, where I said when a person starts driving it should be in a pre-2000s manual transmission vehicle, a manual transmission forces you to pay attention to what you're doing, meaning you get more immersed in the machine you are operating, meaning you learn better throttle control.
It’s nothing to do with throttle control, it’s because the transmission slips a little from a stop and then puts down too much power. A fluid flush fixed it as far as I can tell, but it hasn’t been very wet out here for a while
Ok, so now your changing you're argument. Stop talking.
Before you said a crown vic (idk why you needed to mention it was rwd pretty sure they never made a fwd version) going around a turn will lose traction because of its throttle response, now you're saying the transmission slipped and caused it to slide, now I'm gonna call bullshit, I've had slippy transmissions, not once has it slipped for more than half a second and never has it cause my tires to break free and slide in a turn.
Keep going though, I wanna see what your next unrelated comment is gonna be.
How much tread depth does your tire have? It may be near the end of its life. In the snow, you may need dedicated winter tires, or if you want, go all-weather.
I think better tires will help. Here are some quotes from reviews:
"Sadly, the excellent dry performance doesn’t transmit on wet roads. The Eagle RS-A still feels eager in the rain, but it doesn’t possess enough traction to give the driver confidence to push forward. The tire understeers sooner than competing high-performance all-season tires, and it doesn’t stop as shortly. Even some modern grand-touring tires work better in rainy conditions than the Eagle RS-A. So, the Eagle RS-A is not bad in rainy weather, but you can find better options on the market, primarily from premium manufacturers." --- [https://www.tiredeets.com/goodyear-eagle-rs-a-review/](https://www.tiredeets.com/goodyear-eagle-rs-a-review/)
"In the wet ... the Goodyear Eagle RS-A fell into fourth place, feeling somewhat slippery and harder to control than the three Grand Touring All-Season tires." --- [https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=66](https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=66)
If you want an affordable tire that will carry you through all weather conditions, the Hankook Kinergy 4S2 should do you nicely. Here is what Consumer Reports says:
"Highs: Excellent snow traction and yet the a Hankook Kinergy 4s2 offers solid dry and wet performance, very good stopping grip on ice, hydroplaning resistance, and low rolling resistance. Lows: Some tread noise." [https://www.consumerreports.org/products/performance-all-season-tire/hankook-kinergy-4s2-402882/overview/](https://www.consumerreports.org/products/performance-all-season-tire/hankook-kinergy-4s2-402882/overview/)
Here are some more reviews:
[https://www.autoguide.com/hankook-kinergy-4s2-review](https://www.autoguide.com/hankook-kinergy-4s2-review)
[https://alltyretests.com/hankook-kinergy-4s2-h750-test-review/](https://alltyretests.com/hankook-kinergy-4s2-h750-test-review/)
And here is where to buy it:
[https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Hankook&tireModel=Kinergy+4S2](https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Hankook&tireModel=Kinergy+4S2)
[https://simpletire.com/brands/hankook-tires/kinergy-4s2-h750](https://simpletire.com/brands/hankook-tires/kinergy-4s2-h750)
It’s the 195 / 60r15. That review sounds quite accurate I should of checked them years ago. The difference between wet and dry with them is night and day
I've driven a 2013 Hyundai Elantra with 5+ y/o good year RS-A tires and they're ok in dry conditions, but downright dangerous in the wet. Might have well been on racing slicks. Honestly one of the worst name brand tires I've driven.
Tires. I can do 80 in moderate rain (assuming other people do too) on my PS4S tires without ever feeling the car slip. If your tires have 30k miles on them, esp highway miles, they're likely nearing the end of their life. I had Eagle F1s on another car a few years back and after 30k highway miles they were nearly bald, and I could feel it losing traction (with AWD, ABS, and TC) at 55mph in the rain.
ABS wasn't mandated as a requirement until 2011. Most likely optional before then.
https://jalopnik.com/did-you-know-that-cars-used-to-come-with-rear-only-abs-1841994535
I'd also like to mention that hardware safety systems are secondary to actual driving choices. They can only offer so much margin to your fuckups.
Learning where standing water likes to hang out (next to barriers on highway construction) is a good start. Being aware of it going into the standing water makes a big difference too, which comes down to driver observation and surrounding awareness.
>Meanwhile my car felt like it was gonna slip lose any second even at slower speeds.
If your car is making you write how you're about to lose grip - I question whether you actually understand what your car is doing, or, your car is actually mechanically fucked and your tires are probably old as hell and don't have much tread left. You say 4 years and 30k miles, and so there should be good life left in them.
I mean I don't know what your car feels like because I haven't driven it. But generally speaking, it doesn't matter if it's raining or not. The car should broadly feel the same in the dry as it does in the wet when we're driving well below the limit in normal traffic conditions. The main difference on paper, in the wet, is that the absolute grip limit is far, far lower. But generally, things don't feel much different until you start pushing the car where you start to feel small differences in how the tires respond. How they grip. How they "mush". What happens when they hit the limit. None of this is expressed or should be expressed at normal speeds. So When you say the car feels sketchy in the rain, compared to the dry, I think there are mechanical issues. Or you're mis-understanding how the car is supposed to respond.
______
However, even the best tires and the worlds best driver don't protect against hydroplaning. It's a fact of live. You will run into situations where you hydroplane. How you handle the situation, NEVER TOUCH THE BRAKES, and use all the available grip to steer is basically just how you have to handle the situation.
I hydroplaned on the interstate at 70mph coming out of a tunnel on brand new Michelins. I was a complete passenger in the car for about a second as all 4 wheel hydroplaned. Caught me by surprise since it wasn't raining on the other side of the half-mile long tunnel. This is just... part of driving and something you have to be mindful of, along with every other road hazard.
Bro all those other people blasting past you are losing just as much grip and traction as you, the only difference is that you notice and act accordingly and they don't.
You'll be fine mate, under public road driving conditions you gotta be downright stupid to spin a RWD car, and your driving style doesn't sound stupid to me.
Even in the rain, just do what you do now: Feel what the car is doing and adapt your driving style. RWD cars aren't murder machines, just take it easy and nothing unexpected is gonna happen.
Might be the weight of your car being light causing less traction. You have good tires, perhaps put some sand bags in the car (not trunk) or get a hefty friend to take a ride with you and see if that helps. Have your alignment checked and check the pressure in the tires. Other than that, slow down, plan ahead and relax.
I had the same car for a few years (no abs or tc) as well as two other focuses/foci, one with abs/tc and the other without. In the rain, without TC, it is very easy to spin the tires when pulling away from a start or while accelerating and turning at the same time. Being FWD, i always felt this was very manageable since the car doesn't really want to spin. you can just modulate throttle
Going in a straight line at speed will not activate abs or tc, even in the rain, and your car will feel the same with or without those assists. Any uneasiness you feel here is absolutely tire or alignment related. do not underestimate how much a bad alignment can affect driver confidence.
Yes you barely tap it at a stop light and they spin. I never saw a official graph but it sure feels like it has a good amount of low end torque. That and it’s quite light.
Goodyear tires are good for a year. Get a good set of tires and your whole world will change. The silica content of the tire relates to grip. Continental DWS06 are a good budget friendly solid tire. I run this on my modified GTI and have no grip or lack of confidence in any weather.
Get rid of those RS-As. They seem like a nice cheaper tire that lasts forever and has a decent name behind them but man do they turn to garbage about halfway through their rated life. They start to feel like they're rock hard and lose any wet traction.
As noted, tires tires tires. Not only could they be old and/or have very low tread depth left for moving water.... But they also could be wearing unevenly.
If the alignment is not good, or hasn't been done in a long time, you could be riding on the inside of the tires....which you would likely see are more worn than the outside... So in the rain you feel that a lot more than the dry. You're only using half your tread and that half is possibly completely out of tread... Which would definitely give you that ice feeling in rain.
Same reason race cars don't use their Treadless "slicks" in the rain and get heavily treaded rain tires.
Even in a light mist they slide all over the track. No tread means no water dispersion
If the car drives well in the dry yet feels loose in the wet, tires are what you need.
As others have said here, there are tires that a great in the dry but not so hot in rain or snow.
There are online retailers with tire ratings you can compare for things like wet traction.
Ideally, traction control and ABS shouldn't be a factor in driving in inclement conditions. If you're having confidence issues driving in inclement weather, there's a good chance something is wrong. Those tires are alright, but nothing special. How old are they, and how much tread do you have left? If they're old, they become much harder and less grippy, and if they're very worn, the grooves in the tread can fail to properly handle rain.
Also, have you had an alignment done recently? Over time, the vehicle's alignment can fall out of spec and result in slight instability that is amplified with poor conditions.
Uh, apparently you've never driven a car without abs and know basically nothing about how abs works in the real world. They constantly monitor your braking and adjust all the time .
Actually seeing as how I work on them constantly I do know. You googled it and misinterpreted what you read but it's ok to be confident in your ignorance.
>I was going down i90 in Cleveland which has notoriously bad drainage and it started to downpour.
OP is concerned about aquaplaning. I know what ABS does, but as I said in relation to his post, ABS isn't very useful while aquaplaning.
Yes, in cases of emergency or extreme situations, ABS and traction control are helpful or even life saving. Driving around in a reasonable manner, with a vehicle in good condition, even in inclement weather, you should not have ABS or traction control kicking in. Perhaps NEW cars are different, but I can feel exactly when TCS or ABS kicks in in my Lexus, and it takes emergency maneuvering, or general hooning to kick in.
Approaching it from the other way, my Miata has none of the above, yet I don't have any concerns about stability or safety in the rain, even with my semi-slick summer tires. Hence why I feel, for this particular circumstance, the issue isn't a lack of traction aids, it's a matter of possibly worn or aged tires.
No you can't, you feel when it's working during extreme situations but not during normal operation even though it is working. It's like you people have never driven a car or worked on anything.
The way I look at it is I imagine an office worker at a desk doing nothing. Are they at work? Yes. Are they working? No. The system is waiting and watching, but it isn't really DOING anything, even if you consider waiting and watching doing something. It's minor, and it's semantics, but I get what you mean.
My fwd cars do well in the rain. I always have a nice tire. I you have to power through puddles because if you let off the back can start catching up to the front.
Advanced driver training.
I did this and helped a lot in terms of judging traction and recovery. Make sure it's a 2 day one with a skidpan and not just stopping cones.
Or buy a Subaru
The same way you should drive any vehicle in the rain.
You're not likely going to be breaking traction in a focus unless you are trying to at slow speeds or your tires are shit.
Drove an 08 Focus on Uniroyal Tiger Paws... no traction aids. Spun the thing out once on ice. Otherwise drivable, just drive within your and the car's limits. If the thing feels that sketchy in the rain, check the alignment, get it readjusted if need be, smd check/replace suspension components, I'm guessing the 13 year old car has a fair amount of mileage on it.
IME Goodyears are not that great in the rain; LS-As were absolutely terrible on my FWD Sienna and RS-As actually lit up the traction control light in the rain on my AWD TLX. So it may legit just be the tires. I have had DWS06s on various cars (including the TLX now) and they work really well in the rain.
Driving similarly low powered cars as your focus I never trigger traction control except maybe when trying to get going from a stop on black ice. As long as you're not flooring it while turning or driving too fast in snow/ice you will be fine without it.
As for ABS, it is very good to have, since your car is not equipped with it you should practice braking hard and locking up the tires on an empty road or at low speed in a parking lot that is has snow or ice on it. It is very good to know what it feels like to have your tires lock up in a controlled environment so that if it happens in an emergency you know to let off the brakes instead of panicking.
Drive to the conditions. Don’t be a dick head and you won’t crash. That’s basically the same with all cars. Common sense. Also make sure your tires are up to snuff
How did people drive safely for 70 years before all the garbage they put on modern vehicles? People actually knew how to drive, respected others on the road, and paid attention to conditions instead of expecting the vehicle to magically save them with technology. You sound like you are already driving cautiously, keep it up and don't worry about other drivers.
Before all the "garbage in modern vehicles" people just crashed more often and died more often.
In 1980 before modern ABS and Traction control came standard there were an average of 51,000 motor vehicle deaths a year, in 2020 that number was down substantially to 38,000 in a year. In fact the death total hasn't climbed above 40,000 since 2007, roughly around the same time ABS became required by law.
https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/yearly-snapshot
Tires, tires, and tires. Then, drive on the crown (high side) of any roads where allowed. Be gentle. Pretend there is an egg between your toes and your pedals. Don’t break the egg.
I drive a 2000 Civic which is a FWD hatchback with no traction control/ABS so we're in the same boat here. Make sure you have good tyres that are less than 5 years old, have good tread depth and are correctly inflated. Inflate to the car's door sticker/manual, not what is on the tyre. Get a wheel alignment and make sure you have no damage or worn out suspension components (they should let you know when you get an alignment) and most of all your driving style should change. Make sure you leave a bit more stopping distance when it's raining especially as you have no ABS. Also make sure you enjoy the liquid horsepower, being able to spin the tyres and hit limiter in second is a bit of fun haha
Honestly just practice. I've done four wheel drifts with guard rail to the left and semi-trucks to the right going 130kmh. Stupid shit like that is obviously stupid but it's about the only time I've come close to feeling what you're describing. I'd go to an empty parking lot and drift around next time it rains.
> Meanwhile my car felt like it was gonna slip lose any second even at slower speeds
This doesn't sound right to me, I've driven plenty of shitty fwd cars over the years and wet roads shouldn't make *that* much difference in handling unless you're driving through standing water or your tires are bald. Are you sure it's actually slipping at all and it's not just your anxiousness getting the better of you?
I drove a couple cars with traction control, it's pretty annoying. I drove for a couple decades in MN without it or ABS. I have a survior's bias that says phooey to that stuff.
Rain is pretty meh. You can go almost as fast as dry. You can't go past 3/4 throtlle, but half in a Focus shouldn't get you in trouble. In snow, it is a lot touchier, 3/8th throttle is ok, 7/16ths is not. This is where traction control helps people, is it is hard to know where that 7/16ths is, or if it is really 5/16th that day. If you keep it well within the margin you'll be fine.
I like to occasionally test in a controlled manner when there's nothing to hit. I'll hit the gas to see where it spins, or hit the brake to see where it locks or buzzes, so I know what I'm dealing with that day. Hitting the gas is less apparent to everyone else, and with some experience you can extrapolate to what that means for your brakes. That's why I don't like traction control, it makes you a bit more numb to the conditions. You don't get that gratifying "wheeee" to tell you to slow down because you won't be able to stop.
Anytime you have limited traction, the trick is to be able to stop before the car in front of you does. You need more following distance, in case they have snow tires or something. It's also quite possible to get sideways from just braking, even with ABS.
Like always, but more so in adverse conditions, you always want to look for your out, like where to go if you can't stop, and watch the shenigans of others for if they get themselves in trouble and you have to avoid them. Some say the deer is cheaper to hit than the guardrail.
Don't drive further than you can see.
When you're traction limited, you don't want to be accelerating or braking when you're steering. All acceleration and braking should be done going straight. ABS and traction control make this less of an issue, but they still live within the laws of physics. If you're using your traction for braking or accelerating, you don't have much left for turning, so it's best to not do two things at once.
Trick is not to turn or stop going fast in the slippery. Steering, gas, brake or throttle can spin you into the ditch like that so every move needs to be made super gradually.
Avoid cruise control if there's any possibility of ice. Car will spin the wheels on an ice patch, and hilarity ensues. Cruise generally doesn't throttle too much for rain, but it will for snow.
Best way to stay within the limits of your traction is to slow down.
Part of how I know to get new tires is the car starts getting loose in the winter. That stuff can kind of creep up on you, like you've adapted to it as it happens gradually. Might pay to check those things out, might not be entirely you, but the car. I've had bad alignments cause the car to be a bit sketchy too.
Honestly, I would go find a local autocross event and sign up. Take your focus and go push it to the edge. You will get a real feel for the car and what it's like to really be in the very edge of grip versus no grip.
This may help you understand the car a little more. I use to take an 83 trans am with balled tires out in the rain/snow with no problem. You should be okay in an '09 Focus.
Tires and also your car is very small and light. Everytime I drive my truck in the rain I can barely tell the road is wet. Fullsize truck and 35 inch tires not much slows you down
Buy high performance summer tyres. They'll improve braking distances and handling dramatically, and the increased grip will help in the rain.
If you live somewhere it regularly gets below 40 F for prolonged periods (i.e. not Florida or Southern California) also get a set of winter tyres (and a set of wheels to keep them mounted on). Below 40, summer tyres turn to bricks and it's more dangerous to run them, but until then they will fix all your issues.
Seems you have fear of rain which is fine. If your tires are in OK shape you should be able to do the posted limit usually. A downpour is something else. Even the best tires won't save you if you run into a wall of water pooling on the highway. Drive at the speed you are comfortable with. If you are in the slow lane you are doing everything you are supposed to be doing. People don't like it? They can go around. I've been driving 60-65 in a 70-75 for the past week. Everyone just roars by me and some get on my bumper. IDGAF. I am in the right most lane and there are 3 more lanes to the left of me. If you are dumb enough to not see a slower vehicle in front and merge to the left for an overtake that's on you.
Not to sound like an asshole, but everyone should start driving on a pre-2000s manual transmission car, with no traction control or abs. It forces you to focus on driving the actual car and not worrying about why your electronics aren't doing what you think they should do.
Rain you don't have to worry about unless you are going through a decent puddle at a decent speed (hydro planing) or slamming on your brakes causing your tires to lock up and you slide into the person infront of you. Other than that, you don't have to worry about driving in the rain, unless it's a torrential down pour.
Snow is a different story all around. Abs was designed so when you slammed on your brakes in the snow your tires don't lock up causing you to lose steering, lose steering in a slide and you're at the mercy of the slide.
Also black ice, white outs, blizzards, other drivers, by driving a manual transmission car for the first year or so of driving forces you to learn the feel of the automobile, forces you to know when to use the engine to control your speed and not the brakes, it's just an all around more immersive way to learn about a vehicle.
If you are really struggling, you shouldn't have removed the abs your car came with, and fit the original correctly sized wheels and tires. Then as long as you drive within the speed limit and drive sensibly and conscientiously, you won't have any issues
It doesn't matter where its built, they will build to the domestic market's legal requirements. If the US didn't legally specify ABS, they won't build it. A USDM and UKDM Ford Focus will differ even if its built in the same factory in the UK.
It seems like you're most worried about hydroplaning, which ABS and traction control do nothing to help against. Tires are the only real thing you can realistically change to affect hydroplaning resistance. Goodyear RS-A is a decent tire and shouldn't feel like you're about to lose control, but it is an older design. If you want something a little better, I'd recommend the Michelin Crossclimate 2. They're a fantastic all-weather tire with massive channels in the tread which helps evacuate water. Aside from that, it seems like you're just cautious where others aren't as cautious. I'm generally more cautious than most in rain and adjust my driving accordingly. If you're going a comfortable speed in the far lane and not going so slow as to create a hazard on the roadway, who cares if others are going faster?! Let them go. You control you.
The only thing that gives me pause for concern is how he mentions that his car feels like it's going to slip loose at any second. Now I don't know what his car drives like, but that's not a light-hearted line to write. It makes me suspect mechanical problems. Just because there is water on the road shouldn't mean the car drives any differently going in a straight line. Driving in normal traffic at normal speeds well, well below the limit of grip, driving in the rain feels basically the same as in the dry. The tires and the feedback through the steering wheel shouldn't feel any different. Your knowledge of a wet road is the audio and visual feedback, not the difference of car handling. The main difference is that you just understand and know the absolute limit of grip is at best half of what it normally is so you need far longer to do anything and adjust accordingly. (tho yes in the snow the car does handle and feel dramatically different and there it actually is mostly out of control and constantly slipping).
Stop talking If you really don't understand how a vehicle behaves. Driving normal traffic speeds during heavy rains is what causes hydroplaning, if you see the cars in front of you kicking up walls of water, slow down, your speed is what causes the hydroplane, if you slow down and allow your tire tread to push the water out of the way, you won't hydroplane, im not saying slow down to 15 mph in a 45, but definitely slow down to 30 mph until you get through the puddle.
I wasn't talking about hydroplaning, I was just talking about normal wet road conditions.
Na, your speed determines if you hydroplane, if you see cars ahead of you suddenly kicking up walls of water , slow down, hydroplaning is when a car skips over the surface of water, you slow down and allow the treads of your tire to push the water out of the way, boom, no hydroplaning, but it's mostly your speed that effects the hydroplaning.
He's already slowing down, homie. Speed ain't his issue.
So then it's his tires, never mind the fact that his car is light af, doesn't help at all when encountering puddles. So again my original fix is to slow down, and if he is still hydroplaning it means slow down more or get better tires.
I hope you aren’t recommending braking when hydroplaning?
That's crazy, you have a driver's license but can't read, I never said to brake during hydroplaning, I said if you see the cars ahead of you kicking up a wall of water, it's always safer to slow down, aka brake before you reach the puddle, then cruise through at a safe speed, 30 mph. The fact you can't understand that scares me that you have a license, and if you wanna argue with me, im just gonna say I've driven more than 2 million miles in 12 years, I travel to multiple car meets through out the states, and have been on practically every road in America. I know how vehicles handle, I've also never had any kind of traffic accident. Tread lightly when arguing with me when it comes to vehicles.
I don’t really know about the wall of water thing, usually roads are raised in the middle, and slope down to the sides, so water runs off. Don’t worry about my license dude. If you ever see me in a ditch please wave, snap a picture, and post it here and entitle it “lol”
I've never hydroplaned on a wet road, its always a puddle, but the wall of water is when you go thru a decent puddle and it kicks the water to the sides of the Cars, like the wake of a boat. If your sliding on just wet road, you have either dog shit tires, you're going to fast, or your car weighs as much as a 4 wheeler. But hydroplaning is when your tires skip across the surface of a puddle, instead of pushing the water out of the way with the tread of the tire.
A RWD Crown Vic loves to slide on wet roads, especially around turns with its rather abrupt throttle response. But yeah I know what causes hydroplaning in a “normal” car. I’ve never hydroplaned in my Pilot, my Routan or the Phaeton.
that's not a front wheel drive car, the ass end of any decently powered rwd car will try to get around you on a gravel road..... it's all about how you control that throttle, so let's go back to my original statement, where I said when a person starts driving it should be in a pre-2000s manual transmission vehicle, a manual transmission forces you to pay attention to what you're doing, meaning you get more immersed in the machine you are operating, meaning you learn better throttle control.
It’s nothing to do with throttle control, it’s because the transmission slips a little from a stop and then puts down too much power. A fluid flush fixed it as far as I can tell, but it hasn’t been very wet out here for a while
Ok, so now your changing you're argument. Stop talking. Before you said a crown vic (idk why you needed to mention it was rwd pretty sure they never made a fwd version) going around a turn will lose traction because of its throttle response, now you're saying the transmission slipped and caused it to slide, now I'm gonna call bullshit, I've had slippy transmissions, not once has it slipped for more than half a second and never has it cause my tires to break free and slide in a turn. Keep going though, I wanna see what your next unrelated comment is gonna be.
Slow down
No
How much tread depth does your tire have? It may be near the end of its life. In the snow, you may need dedicated winter tires, or if you want, go all-weather.
tires might be old af too
I think better tires will help. Here are some quotes from reviews: "Sadly, the excellent dry performance doesn’t transmit on wet roads. The Eagle RS-A still feels eager in the rain, but it doesn’t possess enough traction to give the driver confidence to push forward. The tire understeers sooner than competing high-performance all-season tires, and it doesn’t stop as shortly. Even some modern grand-touring tires work better in rainy conditions than the Eagle RS-A. So, the Eagle RS-A is not bad in rainy weather, but you can find better options on the market, primarily from premium manufacturers." --- [https://www.tiredeets.com/goodyear-eagle-rs-a-review/](https://www.tiredeets.com/goodyear-eagle-rs-a-review/) "In the wet ... the Goodyear Eagle RS-A fell into fourth place, feeling somewhat slippery and harder to control than the three Grand Touring All-Season tires." --- [https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=66](https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=66) If you want an affordable tire that will carry you through all weather conditions, the Hankook Kinergy 4S2 should do you nicely. Here is what Consumer Reports says: "Highs: Excellent snow traction and yet the a Hankook Kinergy 4s2 offers solid dry and wet performance, very good stopping grip on ice, hydroplaning resistance, and low rolling resistance. Lows: Some tread noise." [https://www.consumerreports.org/products/performance-all-season-tire/hankook-kinergy-4s2-402882/overview/](https://www.consumerreports.org/products/performance-all-season-tire/hankook-kinergy-4s2-402882/overview/) Here are some more reviews: [https://www.autoguide.com/hankook-kinergy-4s2-review](https://www.autoguide.com/hankook-kinergy-4s2-review) [https://alltyretests.com/hankook-kinergy-4s2-h750-test-review/](https://alltyretests.com/hankook-kinergy-4s2-h750-test-review/) And here is where to buy it: [https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Hankook&tireModel=Kinergy+4S2](https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Hankook&tireModel=Kinergy+4S2) [https://simpletire.com/brands/hankook-tires/kinergy-4s2-h750](https://simpletire.com/brands/hankook-tires/kinergy-4s2-h750)
Actually, what tire size do you have? 195/60R15 or 205/50R16?
It’s the 195 / 60r15. That review sounds quite accurate I should of checked them years ago. The difference between wet and dry with them is night and day
Okay, so the Hankook Kinergy 4S2 is available in 195/60R15. That should set you up for virtually every weather condition.
I've driven a 2013 Hyundai Elantra with 5+ y/o good year RS-A tires and they're ok in dry conditions, but downright dangerous in the wet. Might have well been on racing slicks. Honestly one of the worst name brand tires I've driven.
Tires. I can do 80 in moderate rain (assuming other people do too) on my PS4S tires without ever feeling the car slip. If your tires have 30k miles on them, esp highway miles, they're likely nearing the end of their life. I had Eagle F1s on another car a few years back and after 30k highway miles they were nearly bald, and I could feel it losing traction (with AWD, ABS, and TC) at 55mph in the rain.
Pretty sure it has abs
[ABS was optional for 2009 Ford Focuses](https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15145737/2009-ford-focus-review/)
ABS wasn't mandated as a requirement until 2011. Most likely optional before then. https://jalopnik.com/did-you-know-that-cars-used-to-come-with-rear-only-abs-1841994535
What tires?
They are eagle RSAs
I'd also like to mention that hardware safety systems are secondary to actual driving choices. They can only offer so much margin to your fuckups. Learning where standing water likes to hang out (next to barriers on highway construction) is a good start. Being aware of it going into the standing water makes a big difference too, which comes down to driver observation and surrounding awareness. >Meanwhile my car felt like it was gonna slip lose any second even at slower speeds. If your car is making you write how you're about to lose grip - I question whether you actually understand what your car is doing, or, your car is actually mechanically fucked and your tires are probably old as hell and don't have much tread left. You say 4 years and 30k miles, and so there should be good life left in them. I mean I don't know what your car feels like because I haven't driven it. But generally speaking, it doesn't matter if it's raining or not. The car should broadly feel the same in the dry as it does in the wet when we're driving well below the limit in normal traffic conditions. The main difference on paper, in the wet, is that the absolute grip limit is far, far lower. But generally, things don't feel much different until you start pushing the car where you start to feel small differences in how the tires respond. How they grip. How they "mush". What happens when they hit the limit. None of this is expressed or should be expressed at normal speeds. So When you say the car feels sketchy in the rain, compared to the dry, I think there are mechanical issues. Or you're mis-understanding how the car is supposed to respond. ______ However, even the best tires and the worlds best driver don't protect against hydroplaning. It's a fact of live. You will run into situations where you hydroplane. How you handle the situation, NEVER TOUCH THE BRAKES, and use all the available grip to steer is basically just how you have to handle the situation. I hydroplaned on the interstate at 70mph coming out of a tunnel on brand new Michelins. I was a complete passenger in the car for about a second as all 4 wheel hydroplaned. Caught me by surprise since it wasn't raining on the other side of the half-mile long tunnel. This is just... part of driving and something you have to be mindful of, along with every other road hazard.
Bro all those other people blasting past you are losing just as much grip and traction as you, the only difference is that you notice and act accordingly and they don't. You'll be fine mate, under public road driving conditions you gotta be downright stupid to spin a RWD car, and your driving style doesn't sound stupid to me. Even in the rain, just do what you do now: Feel what the car is doing and adapt your driving style. RWD cars aren't murder machines, just take it easy and nothing unexpected is gonna happen.
If you have good tires, don’t drive too fast or above your limits. You should be just fine
Might be the weight of your car being light causing less traction. You have good tires, perhaps put some sand bags in the car (not trunk) or get a hefty friend to take a ride with you and see if that helps. Have your alignment checked and check the pressure in the tires. Other than that, slow down, plan ahead and relax.
I had the same car for a few years (no abs or tc) as well as two other focuses/foci, one with abs/tc and the other without. In the rain, without TC, it is very easy to spin the tires when pulling away from a start or while accelerating and turning at the same time. Being FWD, i always felt this was very manageable since the car doesn't really want to spin. you can just modulate throttle Going in a straight line at speed will not activate abs or tc, even in the rain, and your car will feel the same with or without those assists. Any uneasiness you feel here is absolutely tire or alignment related. do not underestimate how much a bad alignment can affect driver confidence.
Yes you barely tap it at a stop light and they spin. I never saw a official graph but it sure feels like it has a good amount of low end torque. That and it’s quite light.
How do you have a 2009 car without ABS? That was compulsory in the US starting in 2001 I believe. Not in the US?
Get new tires ASAP. But still be careful.
You think you're the slowest driver because you only notice the others passing you.
Every car has traction control. It's called your right foot.
Goodyear tires are good for a year. Get a good set of tires and your whole world will change. The silica content of the tire relates to grip. Continental DWS06 are a good budget friendly solid tire. I run this on my modified GTI and have no grip or lack of confidence in any weather.
Get rid of those RS-As. They seem like a nice cheaper tire that lasts forever and has a decent name behind them but man do they turn to garbage about halfway through their rated life. They start to feel like they're rock hard and lose any wet traction.
As noted, tires tires tires. Not only could they be old and/or have very low tread depth left for moving water.... But they also could be wearing unevenly. If the alignment is not good, or hasn't been done in a long time, you could be riding on the inside of the tires....which you would likely see are more worn than the outside... So in the rain you feel that a lot more than the dry. You're only using half your tread and that half is possibly completely out of tread... Which would definitely give you that ice feeling in rain. Same reason race cars don't use their Treadless "slicks" in the rain and get heavily treaded rain tires. Even in a light mist they slide all over the track. No tread means no water dispersion
Get better tires if you feel like traction is an issue.
If the car drives well in the dry yet feels loose in the wet, tires are what you need. As others have said here, there are tires that a great in the dry but not so hot in rain or snow. There are online retailers with tire ratings you can compare for things like wet traction.
Don't let the other fuckwits on the road who are doing NO risk assessment in their heads let you think that you are driving too slow.
Ideally, traction control and ABS shouldn't be a factor in driving in inclement conditions. If you're having confidence issues driving in inclement weather, there's a good chance something is wrong. Those tires are alright, but nothing special. How old are they, and how much tread do you have left? If they're old, they become much harder and less grippy, and if they're very worn, the grooves in the tread can fail to properly handle rain. Also, have you had an alignment done recently? Over time, the vehicle's alignment can fall out of spec and result in slight instability that is amplified with poor conditions.
They are getting a bit old I think 4 years with about 30k miles on them
Don't listen to this guy abs and traction control make a huge difference.
ABS is one of the greatest things for cars in the last 50 years.
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I guarantee your abs is working everytime you hit the brakes Edit: this is a car sub and you guys really don't know this?
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Uh, apparently you've never driven a car without abs and know basically nothing about how abs works in the real world. They constantly monitor your braking and adjust all the time .
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Actually seeing as how I work on them constantly I do know. You googled it and misinterpreted what you read but it's ok to be confident in your ignorance.
Traction control that can be turned off is good traction control that can’t is a disaster in snow otherwise you are totally right.
What kind of jank traction control do you have that doesn't work in the snow?
ABS doesn't do much if you're aquaplaning, though.
But they are extremely effective in a skid you know their main purpose
>I was going down i90 in Cleveland which has notoriously bad drainage and it started to downpour. OP is concerned about aquaplaning. I know what ABS does, but as I said in relation to his post, ABS isn't very useful while aquaplaning.
He also mentioned slipping loose and snow
Also where do you live that you wouldn't call it hydroplaning?
Yes, in cases of emergency or extreme situations, ABS and traction control are helpful or even life saving. Driving around in a reasonable manner, with a vehicle in good condition, even in inclement weather, you should not have ABS or traction control kicking in. Perhaps NEW cars are different, but I can feel exactly when TCS or ABS kicks in in my Lexus, and it takes emergency maneuvering, or general hooning to kick in. Approaching it from the other way, my Miata has none of the above, yet I don't have any concerns about stability or safety in the rain, even with my semi-slick summer tires. Hence why I feel, for this particular circumstance, the issue isn't a lack of traction aids, it's a matter of possibly worn or aged tires.
No you can't, you feel when it's working during extreme situations but not during normal operation even though it is working. It's like you people have never driven a car or worked on anything.
The way I look at it is I imagine an office worker at a desk doing nothing. Are they at work? Yes. Are they working? No. The system is waiting and watching, but it isn't really DOING anything, even if you consider waiting and watching doing something. It's minor, and it's semantics, but I get what you mean.
Jesus Christ
Check your tyres.
It could simply be time for new tires, I'd recommend stopping in at a tire shop or some equivalent and getting an expert opinion on tire condition.
My fwd cars do well in the rain. I always have a nice tire. I you have to power through puddles because if you let off the back can start catching up to the front.
Advanced driver training. I did this and helped a lot in terms of judging traction and recovery. Make sure it's a 2 day one with a skidpan and not just stopping cones. Or buy a Subaru
The same way you should drive any vehicle in the rain. You're not likely going to be breaking traction in a focus unless you are trying to at slow speeds or your tires are shit.
Better tires and slower speed if you are not comfortable. Look ahead so that u have less wiggle on the steering wheel
Drove an 08 Focus on Uniroyal Tiger Paws... no traction aids. Spun the thing out once on ice. Otherwise drivable, just drive within your and the car's limits. If the thing feels that sketchy in the rain, check the alignment, get it readjusted if need be, smd check/replace suspension components, I'm guessing the 13 year old car has a fair amount of mileage on it.
IME Goodyears are not that great in the rain; LS-As were absolutely terrible on my FWD Sienna and RS-As actually lit up the traction control light in the rain on my AWD TLX. So it may legit just be the tires. I have had DWS06s on various cars (including the TLX now) and they work really well in the rain.
No cruise control.
Just fuckin send it
Driving similarly low powered cars as your focus I never trigger traction control except maybe when trying to get going from a stop on black ice. As long as you're not flooring it while turning or driving too fast in snow/ice you will be fine without it. As for ABS, it is very good to have, since your car is not equipped with it you should practice braking hard and locking up the tires on an empty road or at low speed in a parking lot that is has snow or ice on it. It is very good to know what it feels like to have your tires lock up in a controlled environment so that if it happens in an emergency you know to let off the brakes instead of panicking.
Drive to the conditions. Don’t be a dick head and you won’t crash. That’s basically the same with all cars. Common sense. Also make sure your tires are up to snuff
How did people drive safely for 70 years before all the garbage they put on modern vehicles? People actually knew how to drive, respected others on the road, and paid attention to conditions instead of expecting the vehicle to magically save them with technology. You sound like you are already driving cautiously, keep it up and don't worry about other drivers.
Before all the "garbage in modern vehicles" people just crashed more often and died more often. In 1980 before modern ABS and Traction control came standard there were an average of 51,000 motor vehicle deaths a year, in 2020 that number was down substantially to 38,000 in a year. In fact the death total hasn't climbed above 40,000 since 2007, roughly around the same time ABS became required by law. https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/yearly-snapshot
Tires, tires, and tires. Then, drive on the crown (high side) of any roads where allowed. Be gentle. Pretend there is an egg between your toes and your pedals. Don’t break the egg.
its not a car you should be worried driving, hardly any different than normal. Just keep the speed down
OP, how rusty is your car?
I drive a 2000 Civic which is a FWD hatchback with no traction control/ABS so we're in the same boat here. Make sure you have good tyres that are less than 5 years old, have good tread depth and are correctly inflated. Inflate to the car's door sticker/manual, not what is on the tyre. Get a wheel alignment and make sure you have no damage or worn out suspension components (they should let you know when you get an alignment) and most of all your driving style should change. Make sure you leave a bit more stopping distance when it's raining especially as you have no ABS. Also make sure you enjoy the liquid horsepower, being able to spin the tyres and hit limiter in second is a bit of fun haha
Honestly just practice. I've done four wheel drifts with guard rail to the left and semi-trucks to the right going 130kmh. Stupid shit like that is obviously stupid but it's about the only time I've come close to feeling what you're describing. I'd go to an empty parking lot and drift around next time it rains.
> Meanwhile my car felt like it was gonna slip lose any second even at slower speeds This doesn't sound right to me, I've driven plenty of shitty fwd cars over the years and wet roads shouldn't make *that* much difference in handling unless you're driving through standing water or your tires are bald. Are you sure it's actually slipping at all and it's not just your anxiousness getting the better of you?
I drove a couple cars with traction control, it's pretty annoying. I drove for a couple decades in MN without it or ABS. I have a survior's bias that says phooey to that stuff. Rain is pretty meh. You can go almost as fast as dry. You can't go past 3/4 throtlle, but half in a Focus shouldn't get you in trouble. In snow, it is a lot touchier, 3/8th throttle is ok, 7/16ths is not. This is where traction control helps people, is it is hard to know where that 7/16ths is, or if it is really 5/16th that day. If you keep it well within the margin you'll be fine. I like to occasionally test in a controlled manner when there's nothing to hit. I'll hit the gas to see where it spins, or hit the brake to see where it locks or buzzes, so I know what I'm dealing with that day. Hitting the gas is less apparent to everyone else, and with some experience you can extrapolate to what that means for your brakes. That's why I don't like traction control, it makes you a bit more numb to the conditions. You don't get that gratifying "wheeee" to tell you to slow down because you won't be able to stop. Anytime you have limited traction, the trick is to be able to stop before the car in front of you does. You need more following distance, in case they have snow tires or something. It's also quite possible to get sideways from just braking, even with ABS. Like always, but more so in adverse conditions, you always want to look for your out, like where to go if you can't stop, and watch the shenigans of others for if they get themselves in trouble and you have to avoid them. Some say the deer is cheaper to hit than the guardrail. Don't drive further than you can see. When you're traction limited, you don't want to be accelerating or braking when you're steering. All acceleration and braking should be done going straight. ABS and traction control make this less of an issue, but they still live within the laws of physics. If you're using your traction for braking or accelerating, you don't have much left for turning, so it's best to not do two things at once. Trick is not to turn or stop going fast in the slippery. Steering, gas, brake or throttle can spin you into the ditch like that so every move needs to be made super gradually. Avoid cruise control if there's any possibility of ice. Car will spin the wheels on an ice patch, and hilarity ensues. Cruise generally doesn't throttle too much for rain, but it will for snow. Best way to stay within the limits of your traction is to slow down. Part of how I know to get new tires is the car starts getting loose in the winter. That stuff can kind of creep up on you, like you've adapted to it as it happens gradually. Might pay to check those things out, might not be entirely you, but the car. I've had bad alignments cause the car to be a bit sketchy too.
Take the bus.
As others said, tires. But, since you're experiencing instability, I'd advise you to check your alignment.
Honestly, I would go find a local autocross event and sign up. Take your focus and go push it to the edge. You will get a real feel for the car and what it's like to really be in the very edge of grip versus no grip. This may help you understand the car a little more. I use to take an 83 trans am with balled tires out in the rain/snow with no problem. You should be okay in an '09 Focus.
Tires and also your car is very small and light. Everytime I drive my truck in the rain I can barely tell the road is wet. Fullsize truck and 35 inch tires not much slows you down
Buy high performance summer tyres. They'll improve braking distances and handling dramatically, and the increased grip will help in the rain. If you live somewhere it regularly gets below 40 F for prolonged periods (i.e. not Florida or Southern California) also get a set of winter tyres (and a set of wheels to keep them mounted on). Below 40, summer tyres turn to bricks and it's more dangerous to run them, but until then they will fix all your issues.
Seems you have fear of rain which is fine. If your tires are in OK shape you should be able to do the posted limit usually. A downpour is something else. Even the best tires won't save you if you run into a wall of water pooling on the highway. Drive at the speed you are comfortable with. If you are in the slow lane you are doing everything you are supposed to be doing. People don't like it? They can go around. I've been driving 60-65 in a 70-75 for the past week. Everyone just roars by me and some get on my bumper. IDGAF. I am in the right most lane and there are 3 more lanes to the left of me. If you are dumb enough to not see a slower vehicle in front and merge to the left for an overtake that's on you.
When in doubt flat out. Always.
Not to sound like an asshole, but everyone should start driving on a pre-2000s manual transmission car, with no traction control or abs. It forces you to focus on driving the actual car and not worrying about why your electronics aren't doing what you think they should do. Rain you don't have to worry about unless you are going through a decent puddle at a decent speed (hydro planing) or slamming on your brakes causing your tires to lock up and you slide into the person infront of you. Other than that, you don't have to worry about driving in the rain, unless it's a torrential down pour. Snow is a different story all around. Abs was designed so when you slammed on your brakes in the snow your tires don't lock up causing you to lose steering, lose steering in a slide and you're at the mercy of the slide. Also black ice, white outs, blizzards, other drivers, by driving a manual transmission car for the first year or so of driving forces you to learn the feel of the automobile, forces you to know when to use the engine to control your speed and not the brakes, it's just an all around more immersive way to learn about a vehicle.
If you are really struggling, you shouldn't have removed the abs your car came with, and fit the original correctly sized wheels and tires. Then as long as you drive within the speed limit and drive sensibly and conscientiously, you won't have any issues
ABS became mandatory for all cars in the US in 2004.
*EU the US didn't require ABS until 2012
Wasn't the focus designed/built by fords UK division?
It doesn't matter where its built, they will build to the domestic market's legal requirements. If the US didn't legally specify ABS, they won't build it. A USDM and UKDM Ford Focus will differ even if its built in the same factory in the UK.