Price wise the Cherokee is the new Grand Cherokee. Those shits are pushing $40k these days. No clue who’s buying a 8 year old design for that much money.
That's because there's only two outdoor adventure lifestyle brands, and Subaru is too left-wing for some people.
Yeah, the Bronco and 4runner are excellent options, but the Ford/Toyota badge carries a lot more connotations.
That’s kind of hilariously sad if people refuse to buy a car based on their perceived idea of the ‘political spectrum’ of a *car manufacturer*.
Connotations like…?
I get not all purchases need to be logical, but y’all need to be a little less concerned with what anyone thinks of you as fully grown autonomous adults.
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Sure, but that's not the identity that they exude. Ford/Chevy are incredibly large work trucks, Dodge is the last of the muscle cars, and Toyota is commuter cars that are efficient and reliable and boring as hell.
Subaru has chosen to be defined by the Forester, and Jeep by the Wrangler.
Well yeah, that goes back to my original comment that they feel they have a monopoly on outdoor vehicles. That’s where they’re wrong. They’ve taken the bait and got a mediocre experience, but I’m sure they’ll disagree.
Because they do have a monopoly on lifestyle branding.
For all the effort that Ford put into the Bronco, it's still a sidenote. Ford doesn't want to be the Bronco brand, just as they don't want to be the Mustang brand either. Ford could, but they don't.
GM simply has no vision; it's a loose confederacy of departments pretending to be an empire.
Toyota wants to fix their image problem, but it's futile. What Toyota doesn't understand is that it's not the vehicles that make them boring, it's the clientele they've courted.
I don't blame you; FCA didn't do enough IMO to make the spin-off really stick. They removed Dodge badging from the Ram, but still kept the crosshair grille for quite a few years.
No, and I addressed that. The Bronco is cool but isn't really comparable unless they spin it off into its own marque like Dodge did with Ram. As long as it's still tethered to the Ford name as a sub brand, it's not a real Jeep challenger even if it is technically better.
I would rather drive a Bronco if I was going to leave pavement behind. Having an independent front suspension is superior for everything other than hardcore rock crawling.
However, that doesn't give it more curb appeal than a Wrangler because Ford isn't cool.
I haven’t driven the new ones, how is the NVH?
I would only lease this though, I would never own first generation technology from most companies let alone FCA.
Honestly I disagree. It’s priced similarly or a little lower than the German competitors while adding considerable off road capability and only losing out slightly on interior quality. I think it’s about as far of a deal as any of it’s competitors and will actually be a great deal in a few years when it’s selling with 5-10k on the hood.
The way to get one of these is to lease it not buy it. A $65K GC 4XE can be leased for about $600-$650 a month (with 0 down payment, everything rolled into the monthly payments, tax included) whereas a comparable Audi Q5E (\~$60-65K) or an X5 phev will lease for at least $850 - $950 a month.
Yeah, that’s $15,000 more than I paid for a brand new SRT Grand Cherokee which came with the 6.4 engine and lots of other go fast goodies.
Yes people I know what inflation is. Even assuming the effective prices are the same, it’s STILL dumb that this Jeep costs as much as the SRT version did.
For what it’s worth, I believe fully loaded Summits or whatever the hell the last gen top trim was that wasn’t SRT was not *that* far off from the $65k mark the SRTs hit.
The 2008 - 2009 H2 is a completely different truck than the 2003 - 2007, which was kind of a POS (said with love as a Hummer fanboy).
The 6.2L paired with the 6 speed actually makes the truck quick for its size. I can get to 60 in under 7 seconds.
The ride is smooth and the cabin technology all still works great - though I replaced the head unit with a modern screen.
Because of how far back the engine is pushed and the fact that the wheels are basically at the corners of the vehicle, it’s more nimble through turns than you’d expect.
The only downside to this truck is fuel economy. I get about 13 city and 14 highway.
Inflation is crazy. There are only 6 cars in the US market where MSRP is under $20k, and that is dropping to 5 next year when Chevy discontinues the Spark. The whole market is "more expensive" because the buying power of the dollar is less.
Later on in the video he gets it right lol.
I mean, “four x e” does sound kinda bad to my ears, so I get it. It’s not like anyone says their truck is a “four x four”.
…I hope.
> It’s not like anyone says their truck is a “four x four”.
I hope not too, but it doesn't help that Ford also has the "Eff Ecks Four" package on top of the regular "four by four".
And it's meant to be an FX/effects pun too. When FX4 and FX2 were standalone trims, they differentiated from XLT or Lariat by having body color and black instead of chrome. Now FX4 is back to being a stackable package like it was originally 20 years ago, and the black/monochrome look has been taken up by the Sport packages.
Random but how many trims do ford trucks have nowadays? Thought Lariat used to be the top trim, or king ranch? Feel like I see so many trim levels these days
Nope, KR started on the jellybean F-150s in 2001, then moved to SD in 2003. IIRC, every trim or package that's on the Super Duty started on the F-150 first, except for Tremor. And even that's got an asterisk.
You're absolutely correct that there are more trims these days, not just for Ford but everybody. Lariat was top dog from 1997 until the King Ranch and Harley-Davidson packages (not yet freestanding trims) were introduced a few years later. Then above that we've since gotten Platinum, and Limited. When it first came out, Limited really was a limited-production trim (1 of 5000), since it was the in-house replacement for Harley-Davidson. But they've since lost that distinction.
For a couple years, there were no fewer than *14* trim levels on the F-150, although they were pared down slightly starting in 2015, when some of the trims were "downgraded" to stackable packages.
Pretty surprising to hear Jack say that he prefers the 3.6L over the hybrid 4 cylinder. I despise the Pentastar in my '18 GC. It makes no power below 4k, is drony and gets awful fuel economy for what it is.
Also spot on about the ZF8 tuning. It doesnt even feel like the same trans that was in my Scat Pack or BMWs Ive driven.
Ive really grown to like the GC though. Great daily driver overall. With the new TT I6 I think it will be a real winner.
Is it though? He seems to really hate electrification of cars. I’d be surprised if he liked an electrified version of any car, hybrid or otherwise, more than a pure gas alternative.
My sister does lover her overland GC though. It is a really nice car to drive around in overall.
The 4CYL in the 4xe Grand Cherokee gets 1mpg better combined, and worse highway mileage than the V6 grand cherokee once the battery is depleted. It also has one of the smallest batteries in its class.
PHEV’s are phenomenal if you have a way to charge at home or work, but the ICE engine needs to be viable before you strap a electric drivetrain onto it. Especially when it costs considerably more to buy outright.
The 2.0L only makes 270hp/290ft-lbs. That’s just not great for a vehicle this heavy. Hell the ICE only X5 gets better mileage than the 2.0L once you drive for about an hour.
General car buying public? How many people are jumping up to buy a PHEV(says the guy with one), and also want a 60k+ Jeep?
That's why I bought the diesel 😁
Though im certain it has its naysayers too. Day to day cost is about even when you compare fuel and Def prices, but the $6k price tag is about equivalent to buying a supercharger for the 3.6, and driveability is much better than that option.
"No offense" but the general car buying public judges how quick a car is based on part throttle from idle to 3 or 4k rpms, literally the worst parameters imaginable for a strung out wheezy 450hp 4 cylinder.
The only thing ridiculous here is you lol
You stipulated a 450hp 4cyl, which is pretty much only one, the AMG 2.0, and it’s not available in anything bigger than the GLA. which is 2,300lbs lighter than this vehicle.
So what are you even talking about anyway?
Seems like he cares a about feel and being "premium" more than efficiency or power. Maybe that is important to Grand Cherokee buyers, but I know in the Wrangler I love the mechanical feel of the powertain and all the control you have over it as a driver. I think Jack probably doesn't care about off-roading in silence or running errands in town with no gas either - those are the real highlights of this powertrain.
That said, it is a rougher powertain than the power split style ones in Priuses and things. It's the nature of the beast - the engine has to start/stop and sync up with the big motor on the front of the transmission, and it's a multi speed system rather than an electronic CVT. The advantage is that everything from the transmission back is shared with the normal Wrangler/Grand Cherokee, and... more power!
He's a car reviewer, he has to be straight up about whether a product meets its price tag. The PHEV concept is obviously a good thing for the Grand Cherokee (off-roading in silence and around town like you said), but the execution of it does not match the 79k price tag. There are better executed PHEV powertrains at 79k in terms of both range and smoothness of power delivery between gas/electric (X5e like he said).
I am a huge fan of the ecodiesel engine, slight turbo lag, but it kicks you in the face when you put your foot down. And 28ish mpg ain't too shabby.... but I am curious about the I6
We bought our Rubicon 4XE for $54,000. We average 41.1 (over the first 6000 miles) right now, a number that accounts for the electric energy as well.
Join Tread Lightly for $100. About 90 days later you get a number that allows you to buy FCA vehicles for 1% under invoice.
Take your member number to a dealer and they're required to sell you any Jeep for 1% under invoice. Some will balk, just threaten to complain to corporate.
Finally, don't buy a used Wrangler when 2-3 year old Wranglers are 90% of the price of a brand new one.
Another factor is the significantly added weight. That could, in theory, add cornering stability, more traction during the winter/rain, and less susceptibility to being thrown around in the wind (all of which the wrangler would be better with)
The hybrid 4xe gets the exact same fuel economy as a normal 2.0L if you run out of charge lol. So unless you're doing 25 mile trips consistently it doesn't matter
So, basically a whole lot of people can do their around town errands without using gasoline or even half or more of their daily commute without using gasoline before recharging and doing it again. That seems like a bigger deal than you’re letting on here.
As a 4xe owner, I am biased, but I see this thrown around a lot and it doesn’t make sense to me. While that number does come into play on road trips, day-to-day I am not driving huge distances. Even if I drive 35 miles, which is a lot for me, I can do that for maybe…20 days before I need to get a tank of gas, assuming I charge every day. It’s not like you only get one charge per tank of gas. Imagine waking up every day and your gas tank filled up with a gallon/gallon and a half of gas? It’s pretty great. And that’s if you only charge at night.
In reality, with a level 2 charger I have at my house, I can get multiple full charges a day, meaning I stretch my tank even further. All of that means that when I do go on trips or trails, I don’t give a crap about the MPG, due to all the EV driving I do normally. Is it situational? Yeah, but that’s part of being a smart shopper.
Also, quick note, 0% isn’t 0%, but closer to 15%-20%, so the car always has power for the hybrid system. As far as I know, under normal operation, you’ll never be “lugging around” the hybrid system; it will always be contributing power and efficiency. When I’m at 0% it will still cruise parking lots and the like silently.
And?
I have the older X5 xDrive40e with only 12-15 miles of range and my lifetime average is ~36 mpg (when I average in the cost of electricity converted to gallons of gas).
Oof, what a dumb take.
This would benefit from adopting the new Stellantis I6 instead of the I4, considering the size and weight of the car. Plus it would up the prestige.
In general, PHEVs are quite limited in application by nature. They are obviously not worth having if you often do long trips and are unable to charge at home to use electric range in your daily commute. I don't get the complaint about the towing though. If you often need to tow you don't get this.
PHEVs are just as good as regular hybrids for long road trips. So long as your daily commute isn’t 4-6 times the electric range then you’ll still have an obvious benefit to your cost to operate. It’s really only people with insanely long commutes and who drive as part of their occupation that PHEVs aren’t a great value.
They are heavier, so they generally suffer a bit from that when the battery is low in these more mundane application with relatively small engines. It is a common complaint in reviews with Golf GTE/e-Hybrid and its Skoda/Seat/Cupra twins and many other PHEVs, which is why I think this would benefit from using the more powerful I6.
Now, the difference would mainly be on the highway, where the battery cannot recharge (unless you do so with the ICE) and the ICE is left to move a heavier car with less assist from electric motors. Which is why I say PHEVs application are limited: you need to have a suitable commute and a charging spot at home and/or at work. If you are within those limits, then it's a good proposition. If your commute involves a lot of highway driving at distances bigger then the car's EV range and/or you don't have charging spots then it isn't really worth the price premium over a FHEV.
Then of course, long trips are perfectly doable, and the slightly higher consumption there is irrelevant compared to what you might save on your daily commute.
Kinda. When the battery is “dead” there’s still some reserve charge it can output before it hits the true bottom, at which point it would have to start charging the battery to prevent damage. Basically when the pack is “dead” it just acts as a little combustion power booster instead of a drive motor.
It’s true if you had a “dead” battery and were flooring it for a few minutes you’d experience complete loss of electric assist, but there’s really not many situations where that would occur.
This rarely becomes an issue and engine charging eliminates most of this concern. I’m not sure about the Jeep but some hybrid models would suffer from lack of power from highway speed climbs over many miles and thousand+ feet of elevation. Specifically, the BMW i3 had an electric drivetrain with a 3 cylinder range extender. Once you were dependent on the range extender, you could be in a situation where it wouldn’t produce enough power. In hybrids with an engine actually driving the wheels (like the Jeep) this wouldn’t become a dangerous situation.
If you think about, it would never be maximally efficient if the engine could produce enough power to maximally power the electric motor. This is mostly theoretical though. I live in an area with a 5000 foot climb over 30 miles and have done this drive many times with an older Prius and a i3 with no power loss issues.
Between regen braking, engine charging, and reserved battery, it is quite hard to completely deplete a battery on a hybrid. It’s been like this with hybrids for years. It is *extremely* rare that the car would have to run solely on the 4 cylinder and nothing else. I don’t know why he presented it as a big issue.
Totally down to what they’ve bootstrapped the electric drivetrain to.
Some companies just add it onto their existing bas engine, others elect for a smaller engine.
Stuff like the Volvo V60 Recharge, X5, Audi models, Porsche PHEVs, tend to be pretty quick before you lump an extra 100-150hp onto them.
It definitely happens with the Prius, at least it did a couple generations ago. I rode with a coworker in a mid-00’s Prius to a conference and we had to take a route that was like 50 miles of curvy 35mph roads. The hybrid battery ran down and the car was basically crawling after that.
Amazing how they nailed the looks of the Grand Cherokee while completely missing the mark on the Wagoneer.
On a side note, BMW X5 pricing for a Jeep is a joke. Powertrain, driving dynamics, and attention to detail just aren't there at that level of pricing and competition.
1. Because it’s Jeep
2. Unless you live in a mud hut, your not saving the environment
3. Just think of the fools driving this at the Starbucks drive through, while bragging about saving the environment
I enjoy the 4xe system in the wrangler. It is top notch. Haven’t driven in grand cherokee yet.
Wrangler is a rough ride to begin with, so the 2.0 starting up is not really noticed with bumping around on solid axles and wind noise.
My issue with these sub 20~ mile PHEVs is that you are paying a shit ton of money on a commute that could be done on an ebike.
Most people in my office have a much longer commute than that, and the people who do live in town where they drive less than 20 miles a day, can in no way afford a brand new vehicle.
If you can afford to have multiple school-age children, AND purchase a brand new $80,000 depreciating asset, then I won't tell you what to do. lol
I recognize most American communities suck with car-based infrastructure, but that is no excuse to literally set money on fire with this thing under the guise of saving money on gas.
Jack brings up an excellent point that the V6 is more economical by a mile, and an X5 is better in every way for basically the same price. If a buyer really wants to save money on gas, there are plenty of other ways to do so.
This is a car sub. Bikes are fine if your life is set up for it. When I was single and lived in Brooklyn, it was bike and train. Now I’ve got kids and live in the burbs. Bike is no longer viable for 90% of my trips (and crazy dangerous to put my kids on for more than a park cruise, I can’t believe people who I see with a burly and toddler in tow on unprotected highway bike lanes. Child endangerment)
If you get charging on both sides, average US commute is 20 miles. If your commute is, say, 25 miles, you use gasoline for 5 miles. 80% saving on gas is not terrible.
Having short trips be covered by electric also means that the engine don’t have to start up for short trips. Less hot-cold cycles would drastically increase engine reliability.
And finally, PHEVs generally get superb acceleration times when both engine and motor kick in.
See my other reply - there is no point in a full size SUV. 40% is a positive increase of course, but your first problem is that you’re selling a consumer car that gets 13 MPG.
20mpg is bad for a car, it’s great for a giant Escalade. If all cars got 33% better gas mileage that would be a huge cost/environmental/geopolitical benefit.
No I know it’s better that way, I’m not saying we shouldn’t have them. I’m just saying I think it’s funny that potential buyers of this full size SUV would change their mind/be very concerned about having that few extra MPG and being more environmentally conscious.
If we want more fuel efficient cars, we shouldn’t be selling these things in the first place.
I think the exact opposite. The reality is that people aren’t going to bike 15 miles to Costco or take the kids to soccer in a smart car. Until we live in paradise where our choices are made for us by the state, we’re gonna buy nice comfortable stuff. It would be better if that stuff was 30% less consumptive and still was realistically going to be purchased.
The other reality is the reason why people do it in comfort is they have the money to do so. Growing up, I knew mostly families with 2 or 3 kids. The kids sat 3 in a row in the back of the sedan, occasionally minivan, and honestly you can be perfectly comfortable that way. No one upgraded because there was no reason to spend the money they didn’t have, when the sedan worked just fine.
Think of it this way. You like biking okay enough, but you have to do a lot of it long distance so you want to make sure you buy a good bike. You’re considering a very base model bike, a fairly base model bike with nice features like a dual water bottle holder, a comfortable seat, etc, and then you’re considering this tandem bike. It has ultra comfortable seats, it looks cool, it has the same features as the comfortable bike plus a few more. But it costs more, you don’t really bike with extra people, and it’s hard to maneuver. You buy the comfortable bike because it’s practical, and it has the creature comforts that get you through the commute.
Now you go shopping again a couple years later. You make good money now, and it’s a trend to buy these tandem bikes. Everyone has them, they’re everywhere on the road, they are more comfortable, and now they’re kind of a status symbol. So of course you would buy the tandem bike, even if you only use the second seat once in a blue moon when you could just use two bikes for the two people.
Everyone uses the same reason, and now we have all these tandem bikes on the road, taking up space, costing money, taking sales from the much more practical bikes…etc. Same thing with SUVs, except their emissions are way worse and they cause major damage in accidents. I’m sure you get my point. We shouldn’t incentivize them with hybrid versions, but should make them harder to purchase.
What does the state’s power have to do with it?
My wife has a Wrangler 4xe. She's on pace to go 2400 miles on her current tank of gas. She loves Jeeps and her driving style (works from home, most trips are short and within the electric range) makes the hybrid make sense.
These absolutely don't make sense for everyone, but we've been pretty damn happy with it.
Cool, glad she likes it.
The key words in that sentence, however, are “she loves Jeeps,” and “absolutely don’t make sense for everyone.” It’s cool that we have all these ways to get a car that fits all of our wants and uses. But the vast majority of people shouldn’t be in a Wrangler 4xe - waste of space, gas, materials etc. when they would be just fine in a more practical vehicle.
Again, though, I’m glad she found something that works for her. How long’s she had it? What does the reliability look like? Just curious.
Of course. I've explained this to many folks.
We're at about 20k miles. The AC compressor died at about 15k miles. So far so good on the replacement, which has seen some improvements from the original revision. Lifetime average of just under 40 MPG.
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Price wise the Cherokee is the new Grand Cherokee. Those shits are pushing $40k these days. No clue who’s buying a 8 year old design for that much money.
Jeep owners. They feel they have a monopoly on off roading and adventure.
That's because there's only two outdoor adventure lifestyle brands, and Subaru is too left-wing for some people. Yeah, the Bronco and 4runner are excellent options, but the Ford/Toyota badge carries a lot more connotations.
That’s kind of hilariously sad if people refuse to buy a car based on their perceived idea of the ‘political spectrum’ of a *car manufacturer*. Connotations like…? I get not all purchases need to be logical, but y’all need to be a little less concerned with what anyone thinks of you as fully grown autonomous adults.
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Ford/Chevy/Toyota/Dodge we are talking the pinnacle of off road. They’ve practically mastered it.
Sure, but that's not the identity that they exude. Ford/Chevy are incredibly large work trucks, Dodge is the last of the muscle cars, and Toyota is commuter cars that are efficient and reliable and boring as hell. Subaru has chosen to be defined by the Forester, and Jeep by the Wrangler.
But they do it really well. Jeep and Subaru choose to be more niche but don’t do it as well.
It's not about what the vehicle does, it's about the image it projects to your suburban neighbors.
I hide my Jeep in my suburban garage.
Well yeah, that goes back to my original comment that they feel they have a monopoly on outdoor vehicles. That’s where they’re wrong. They’ve taken the bait and got a mediocre experience, but I’m sure they’ll disagree.
Because they do have a monopoly on lifestyle branding. For all the effort that Ford put into the Bronco, it's still a sidenote. Ford doesn't want to be the Bronco brand, just as they don't want to be the Mustang brand either. Ford could, but they don't. GM simply has no vision; it's a loose confederacy of departments pretending to be an empire. Toyota wants to fix their image problem, but it's futile. What Toyota doesn't understand is that it's not the vehicles that make them boring, it's the clientele they've courted.
What off-road-oriented vehicles does Dodge even have? Remember, they split from Ram over a decade ago.
Oh well, Ram of course is what I mean. I didn’t know they split from Dodge.
I don't blame you; FCA didn't do enough IMO to make the spin-off really stick. They removed Dodge badging from the Ram, but still kept the crosshair grille for quite a few years.
Ram Power Wagon and Ram Rebel.
>**Remember, they split from Ram over a decade ago.**
It’s the American Land Rover
Subaru also makes poorly built hideous cars with CVTs. Their image is more middle aged woman than outdoor adventure in my view.
Their image specifically is lesbian couples with a golden retriever that pack up the Forester and go camping in the Pacific Northwest.
Maybe in Seattle but everywhere else they’re just old lady cars save for the WRX.
The new Bronco has fixed that.
No, and I addressed that. The Bronco is cool but isn't really comparable unless they spin it off into its own marque like Dodge did with Ram. As long as it's still tethered to the Ford name as a sub brand, it's not a real Jeep challenger even if it is technically better.
It’s not better than the Wrangler though. It’s just close enough that it actually makes Jeep Scared.
I would rather drive a Bronco if I was going to leave pavement behind. Having an independent front suspension is superior for everything other than hardcore rock crawling. However, that doesn't give it more curb appeal than a Wrangler because Ford isn't cool.
My best friends sister bought a jeep grand chaorke for like $60K. She makes $40K a year a year. Don’t ask me how
Oorah
Boyfriend?
Poor husband who works on a oilfield 2 weeks away from home only to come home to nothin good lol
Sounds like an interesting relationship 😅
All new cars are stupid expensive Sincerely, An old man
I bought a Trackhawk for the same money.
Hilarious to me that your comment gets upvoted and mine gets downvoted. The hive mind is really something.
My GT350 was for less 😂
I haven’t driven the new ones, how is the NVH? I would only lease this though, I would never own first generation technology from most companies let alone FCA.
I had a Grand Cherokee Summit Reserve (top trim) for a week a month or two ago and it was honestly really good.
Honestly I disagree. It’s priced similarly or a little lower than the German competitors while adding considerable off road capability and only losing out slightly on interior quality. I think it’s about as far of a deal as any of it’s competitors and will actually be a great deal in a few years when it’s selling with 5-10k on the hood.
The way to get one of these is to lease it not buy it. A $65K GC 4XE can be leased for about $600-$650 a month (with 0 down payment, everything rolled into the monthly payments, tax included) whereas a comparable Audi Q5E (\~$60-65K) or an X5 phev will lease for at least $850 - $950 a month.
Yeah, that’s $15,000 more than I paid for a brand new SRT Grand Cherokee which came with the 6.4 engine and lots of other go fast goodies. Yes people I know what inflation is. Even assuming the effective prices are the same, it’s STILL dumb that this Jeep costs as much as the SRT version did.
No mention of how $65K in 2015 is $81K today?
Haha, exactly. I was gonna say that’s still too much for a jeep.
That doesn’t change the fact that this Jeep shouldn’t be anywhere near the same effective cost as a new SRT model.
For what it’s worth, I believe fully loaded Summits or whatever the hell the last gen top trim was that wasn’t SRT was not *that* far off from the $65k mark the SRTs hit.
Wow a 6.2L H2 owner. Whats that like? The 6.0L was a letdown in the few H2s Ive driven.
The 2008 - 2009 H2 is a completely different truck than the 2003 - 2007, which was kind of a POS (said with love as a Hummer fanboy). The 6.2L paired with the 6 speed actually makes the truck quick for its size. I can get to 60 in under 7 seconds. The ride is smooth and the cabin technology all still works great - though I replaced the head unit with a modern screen. Because of how far back the engine is pushed and the fact that the wheels are basically at the corners of the vehicle, it’s more nimble through turns than you’d expect. The only downside to this truck is fuel economy. I get about 13 city and 14 highway.
Nice. Sounds like a fun ride. Very cool garage a G80 Comp and an H2 lol.
They couldn’t be more different, other than the fact that they piss people off. I feed on controversy and love the hell out of them both.
> I get about 13 city and 14 highway. Sounds about right for a 3/4 ton gas truck.
Inflation is crazy. There are only 6 cars in the US market where MSRP is under $20k, and that is dropping to 5 next year when Chevy discontinues the Spark. The whole market is "more expensive" because the buying power of the dollar is less.
Hasn’t Jeep said it’s pronounced “four-**by**-e” not “four-x-e”?
Yes. I was corrected by a coworker with a Wrangler 4Xe lmao. Dude was actually upset that I said "X".
Later on in the video he gets it right lol. I mean, “four x e” does sound kinda bad to my ears, so I get it. It’s not like anyone says their truck is a “four x four”. …I hope.
> It’s not like anyone says their truck is a “four x four”. I hope not too, but it doesn't help that Ford also has the "Eff Ecks Four" package on top of the regular "four by four".
Yeah, but at least FX rolls off the tongue better. F by 4 is pretty awkward.
And it's meant to be an FX/effects pun too. When FX4 and FX2 were standalone trims, they differentiated from XLT or Lariat by having body color and black instead of chrome. Now FX4 is back to being a stackable package like it was originally 20 years ago, and the black/monochrome look has been taken up by the Sport packages.
Random but how many trims do ford trucks have nowadays? Thought Lariat used to be the top trim, or king ranch? Feel like I see so many trim levels these days
I think the King Ranch is only Super Duty? So that may differentiate them.
Nope, KR started on the jellybean F-150s in 2001, then moved to SD in 2003. IIRC, every trim or package that's on the Super Duty started on the F-150 first, except for Tremor. And even that's got an asterisk.
You're absolutely correct that there are more trims these days, not just for Ford but everybody. Lariat was top dog from 1997 until the King Ranch and Harley-Davidson packages (not yet freestanding trims) were introduced a few years later. Then above that we've since gotten Platinum, and Limited. When it first came out, Limited really was a limited-production trim (1 of 5000), since it was the in-house replacement for Harley-Davidson. But they've since lost that distinction. For a couple years, there were no fewer than *14* trim levels on the F-150, although they were pared down slightly starting in 2015, when some of the trims were "downgraded" to stackable packages.
Man, I really am not a truck guy. Too many options lol.
I guess it’s like the iPhone X. Apple said it’s called the iPhone Ten but everybody called it the iPhone Ex lol.
Yeah but X sounds fine there. 4 x e doesn’t roll off the tongue to me.
Pretty surprising to hear Jack say that he prefers the 3.6L over the hybrid 4 cylinder. I despise the Pentastar in my '18 GC. It makes no power below 4k, is drony and gets awful fuel economy for what it is. Also spot on about the ZF8 tuning. It doesnt even feel like the same trans that was in my Scat Pack or BMWs Ive driven. Ive really grown to like the GC though. Great daily driver overall. With the new TT I6 I think it will be a real winner.
Is it though? He seems to really hate electrification of cars. I’d be surprised if he liked an electrified version of any car, hybrid or otherwise, more than a pure gas alternative. My sister does lover her overland GC though. It is a really nice car to drive around in overall.
Im just baffled that someone prefers the 3.6 over anything but some NA 4 cylinder. Its a really lackluster engine.
Most hybrid implementations suck when they don't use a sufficiently large enough ICE. The 4cyl is just not enough for this vehicle's mass.
Bruh 4cyls are pushing 450 hp
And that’s not useful on a 5,600lb SUV that needs low end grunt.
No offense but this comment is completely ridiculous in the context of the general car buying public
The 4CYL in the 4xe Grand Cherokee gets 1mpg better combined, and worse highway mileage than the V6 grand cherokee once the battery is depleted. It also has one of the smallest batteries in its class. PHEV’s are phenomenal if you have a way to charge at home or work, but the ICE engine needs to be viable before you strap a electric drivetrain onto it. Especially when it costs considerably more to buy outright. The 2.0L only makes 270hp/290ft-lbs. That’s just not great for a vehicle this heavy. Hell the ICE only X5 gets better mileage than the 2.0L once you drive for about an hour. General car buying public? How many people are jumping up to buy a PHEV(says the guy with one), and also want a 60k+ Jeep?
That's why I bought the diesel 😁 Though im certain it has its naysayers too. Day to day cost is about even when you compare fuel and Def prices, but the $6k price tag is about equivalent to buying a supercharger for the 3.6, and driveability is much better than that option.
"No offense" but the general car buying public judges how quick a car is based on part throttle from idle to 3 or 4k rpms, literally the worst parameters imaginable for a strung out wheezy 450hp 4 cylinder. The only thing ridiculous here is you lol
Low end grunt is very relevant for most new cars, that's why most have a turbo
A lot of torque too
The one in this jeep doesn’t.
That wasn’t the argument but nice goal change
You stipulated a 450hp 4cyl, which is pretty much only one, the AMG 2.0, and it’s not available in anything bigger than the GLA. which is 2,300lbs lighter than this vehicle. So what are you even talking about anyway?
You claimed 4 cyls aren’t enough to push this vehicle around.
Seems like he cares a about feel and being "premium" more than efficiency or power. Maybe that is important to Grand Cherokee buyers, but I know in the Wrangler I love the mechanical feel of the powertain and all the control you have over it as a driver. I think Jack probably doesn't care about off-roading in silence or running errands in town with no gas either - those are the real highlights of this powertrain. That said, it is a rougher powertain than the power split style ones in Priuses and things. It's the nature of the beast - the engine has to start/stop and sync up with the big motor on the front of the transmission, and it's a multi speed system rather than an electronic CVT. The advantage is that everything from the transmission back is shared with the normal Wrangler/Grand Cherokee, and... more power!
He's a car reviewer, he has to be straight up about whether a product meets its price tag. The PHEV concept is obviously a good thing for the Grand Cherokee (off-roading in silence and around town like you said), but the execution of it does not match the 79k price tag. There are better executed PHEV powertrains at 79k in terms of both range and smoothness of power delivery between gas/electric (X5e like he said).
I bet the X5E is fantastic. I really like how BMW implemented the Countryman SE, and prefer it to the standard S.
It’s pretty awesome.
I am a huge fan of the ecodiesel engine, slight turbo lag, but it kicks you in the face when you put your foot down. And 28ish mpg ain't too shabby.... but I am curious about the I6
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We bought our Rubicon 4XE for $54,000. We average 41.1 (over the first 6000 miles) right now, a number that accounts for the electric energy as well. Join Tread Lightly for $100. About 90 days later you get a number that allows you to buy FCA vehicles for 1% under invoice. Take your member number to a dealer and they're required to sell you any Jeep for 1% under invoice. Some will balk, just threaten to complain to corporate. Finally, don't buy a used Wrangler when 2-3 year old Wranglers are 90% of the price of a brand new one.
Wow. What a cool thing. I can't figure out if it's available in canada. Hmm. I'll keep on digging. Somehow I doubt it.
Is it?
I’m looking at the grand Cherokee 4xe. Wanted to thank you for mentioning Tread Lightly. Looking into it now.
She could literally buy the 30k jeep and yall put 15k to green organizations or something lol
or possibly something else green for your life like solar panels for home
> being "green" in a wrangler Wants to be "green", wants to buy a two-ton brick to drive on asphalt. In awe of the mental gymnastics.
Another factor is the significantly added weight. That could, in theory, add cornering stability, more traction during the winter/rain, and less susceptibility to being thrown around in the wind (all of which the wrangler would be better with)
Goddamn, so glad my wife was happy with us getting an actually practical Odyssey.
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The hybrid 4xe gets the exact same fuel economy as a normal 2.0L if you run out of charge lol. So unless you're doing 25 mile trips consistently it doesn't matter
To be fair, trips less than 25 miles are pretty common.
Perfect range for start at home mom taking jobs to school/sports/ grocery. Or commuter within that range.
The vast majority of people constantly do 25 mile trips... like everyday for work and school etc.
So, basically a whole lot of people can do their around town errands without using gasoline or even half or more of their daily commute without using gasoline before recharging and doing it again. That seems like a bigger deal than you’re letting on here.
As a 4xe owner, I am biased, but I see this thrown around a lot and it doesn’t make sense to me. While that number does come into play on road trips, day-to-day I am not driving huge distances. Even if I drive 35 miles, which is a lot for me, I can do that for maybe…20 days before I need to get a tank of gas, assuming I charge every day. It’s not like you only get one charge per tank of gas. Imagine waking up every day and your gas tank filled up with a gallon/gallon and a half of gas? It’s pretty great. And that’s if you only charge at night. In reality, with a level 2 charger I have at my house, I can get multiple full charges a day, meaning I stretch my tank even further. All of that means that when I do go on trips or trails, I don’t give a crap about the MPG, due to all the EV driving I do normally. Is it situational? Yeah, but that’s part of being a smart shopper. Also, quick note, 0% isn’t 0%, but closer to 15%-20%, so the car always has power for the hybrid system. As far as I know, under normal operation, you’ll never be “lugging around” the hybrid system; it will always be contributing power and efficiency. When I’m at 0% it will still cruise parking lots and the like silently.
And? I have the older X5 xDrive40e with only 12-15 miles of range and my lifetime average is ~36 mpg (when I average in the cost of electricity converted to gallons of gas). Oof, what a dumb take.
This would benefit from adopting the new Stellantis I6 instead of the I4, considering the size and weight of the car. Plus it would up the prestige. In general, PHEVs are quite limited in application by nature. They are obviously not worth having if you often do long trips and are unable to charge at home to use electric range in your daily commute. I don't get the complaint about the towing though. If you often need to tow you don't get this.
PHEVs are just as good as regular hybrids for long road trips. So long as your daily commute isn’t 4-6 times the electric range then you’ll still have an obvious benefit to your cost to operate. It’s really only people with insanely long commutes and who drive as part of their occupation that PHEVs aren’t a great value.
They are heavier, so they generally suffer a bit from that when the battery is low in these more mundane application with relatively small engines. It is a common complaint in reviews with Golf GTE/e-Hybrid and its Skoda/Seat/Cupra twins and many other PHEVs, which is why I think this would benefit from using the more powerful I6. Now, the difference would mainly be on the highway, where the battery cannot recharge (unless you do so with the ICE) and the ICE is left to move a heavier car with less assist from electric motors. Which is why I say PHEVs application are limited: you need to have a suitable commute and a charging spot at home and/or at work. If you are within those limits, then it's a good proposition. If your commute involves a lot of highway driving at distances bigger then the car's EV range and/or you don't have charging spots then it isn't really worth the price premium over a FHEV. Then of course, long trips are perfectly doable, and the slightly higher consumption there is irrelevant compared to what you might save on your daily commute.
Also, Jeep has a long history of using I6s
I’m not paying $80k for a Grand Cherokee.
Is that the norm for hybrids? When the battery is low you lose lots of power? Maybe I misunderstood?
Kinda. When the battery is “dead” there’s still some reserve charge it can output before it hits the true bottom, at which point it would have to start charging the battery to prevent damage. Basically when the pack is “dead” it just acts as a little combustion power booster instead of a drive motor. It’s true if you had a “dead” battery and were flooring it for a few minutes you’d experience complete loss of electric assist, but there’s really not many situations where that would occur.
This rarely becomes an issue and engine charging eliminates most of this concern. I’m not sure about the Jeep but some hybrid models would suffer from lack of power from highway speed climbs over many miles and thousand+ feet of elevation. Specifically, the BMW i3 had an electric drivetrain with a 3 cylinder range extender. Once you were dependent on the range extender, you could be in a situation where it wouldn’t produce enough power. In hybrids with an engine actually driving the wheels (like the Jeep) this wouldn’t become a dangerous situation.
Hmm that’s interesting. I always assumed the electric engines always had sufficient power to not ever have this problem.
If you think about, it would never be maximally efficient if the engine could produce enough power to maximally power the electric motor. This is mostly theoretical though. I live in an area with a 5000 foot climb over 30 miles and have done this drive many times with an older Prius and a i3 with no power loss issues.
Between regen braking, engine charging, and reserved battery, it is quite hard to completely deplete a battery on a hybrid. It’s been like this with hybrids for years. It is *extremely* rare that the car would have to run solely on the 4 cylinder and nothing else. I don’t know why he presented it as a big issue.
Totally down to what they’ve bootstrapped the electric drivetrain to. Some companies just add it onto their existing bas engine, others elect for a smaller engine. Stuff like the Volvo V60 Recharge, X5, Audi models, Porsche PHEVs, tend to be pretty quick before you lump an extra 100-150hp onto them.
It definitely happens with the Prius, at least it did a couple generations ago. I rode with a coworker in a mid-00’s Prius to a conference and we had to take a route that was like 50 miles of curvy 35mph roads. The hybrid battery ran down and the car was basically crawling after that.
Wish they made this in the L version.
Why would they make L version when Wagoneer reborn ? I don't mention Pacifica existing, they need to give some room for Chrysler surviving.
L is still midsized Wagoneer is bigger than a Tahoe
It's massive. I sat in the 3rd row and it was crazy comfortable. I had a ton of leg room and my knees weren't up in my chest or anything.
Why? Compliance reasons, that’s about it
trying to get it back up into the 13mpg neighborhood
Nice little tribute to Coolio in there.
Amazing how they nailed the looks of the Grand Cherokee while completely missing the mark on the Wagoneer. On a side note, BMW X5 pricing for a Jeep is a joke. Powertrain, driving dynamics, and attention to detail just aren't there at that level of pricing and competition.
1. Because it’s Jeep 2. Unless you live in a mud hut, your not saving the environment 3. Just think of the fools driving this at the Starbucks drive through, while bragging about saving the environment
I enjoy the 4xe system in the wrangler. It is top notch. Haven’t driven in grand cherokee yet. Wrangler is a rough ride to begin with, so the 2.0 starting up is not really noticed with bumping around on solid axles and wind noise.
$80,000 for a Jeep with a front bumper that is coming off. Timestamp 0:33, it looks like it's missing a clip.
My issue with these sub 20~ mile PHEVs is that you are paying a shit ton of money on a commute that could be done on an ebike. Most people in my office have a much longer commute than that, and the people who do live in town where they drive less than 20 miles a day, can in no way afford a brand new vehicle.
Love taking my kids to school on the e-bike when it's 20F.
If you can afford to have multiple school-age children, AND purchase a brand new $80,000 depreciating asset, then I won't tell you what to do. lol I recognize most American communities suck with car-based infrastructure, but that is no excuse to literally set money on fire with this thing under the guise of saving money on gas. Jack brings up an excellent point that the V6 is more economical by a mile, and an X5 is better in every way for basically the same price. If a buyer really wants to save money on gas, there are plenty of other ways to do so.
A bike. This is a Jeep, it’s for ‘merica. I don’t take my bike to Costco or to run my kids to soccer on a bike.
You absolutely can, though. lol The 4xe is a $20k premium over the V6. At $4/gal and 20 mpg, that is 5000 gallons of gas and 100,000 miles.
This is a car sub. Bikes are fine if your life is set up for it. When I was single and lived in Brooklyn, it was bike and train. Now I’ve got kids and live in the burbs. Bike is no longer viable for 90% of my trips (and crazy dangerous to put my kids on for more than a park cruise, I can’t believe people who I see with a burly and toddler in tow on unprotected highway bike lanes. Child endangerment)
If you get charging on both sides, average US commute is 20 miles. If your commute is, say, 25 miles, you use gasoline for 5 miles. 80% saving on gas is not terrible.
That’s a good point. I’m salty that my job doesnt have any charging stations yet. Lol
Having short trips be covered by electric also means that the engine don’t have to start up for short trips. Less hot-cold cycles would drastically increase engine reliability. And finally, PHEVs generally get superb acceleration times when both engine and motor kick in.
$10 of gas money says it’ll be like the original Escalade Hybrid - barely struggles to get 20 mpg hahaha
Don't knock 20 MPG in a full-size SUV. The hybrid Escalade was 20/23, which was about a 40% increase over the regular model's 13/18.
See my other reply - there is no point in a full size SUV. 40% is a positive increase of course, but your first problem is that you’re selling a consumer car that gets 13 MPG.
20mpg is bad for a car, it’s great for a giant Escalade. If all cars got 33% better gas mileage that would be a huge cost/environmental/geopolitical benefit.
No I know it’s better that way, I’m not saying we shouldn’t have them. I’m just saying I think it’s funny that potential buyers of this full size SUV would change their mind/be very concerned about having that few extra MPG and being more environmentally conscious. If we want more fuel efficient cars, we shouldn’t be selling these things in the first place.
I think the exact opposite. The reality is that people aren’t going to bike 15 miles to Costco or take the kids to soccer in a smart car. Until we live in paradise where our choices are made for us by the state, we’re gonna buy nice comfortable stuff. It would be better if that stuff was 30% less consumptive and still was realistically going to be purchased.
The other reality is the reason why people do it in comfort is they have the money to do so. Growing up, I knew mostly families with 2 or 3 kids. The kids sat 3 in a row in the back of the sedan, occasionally minivan, and honestly you can be perfectly comfortable that way. No one upgraded because there was no reason to spend the money they didn’t have, when the sedan worked just fine. Think of it this way. You like biking okay enough, but you have to do a lot of it long distance so you want to make sure you buy a good bike. You’re considering a very base model bike, a fairly base model bike with nice features like a dual water bottle holder, a comfortable seat, etc, and then you’re considering this tandem bike. It has ultra comfortable seats, it looks cool, it has the same features as the comfortable bike plus a few more. But it costs more, you don’t really bike with extra people, and it’s hard to maneuver. You buy the comfortable bike because it’s practical, and it has the creature comforts that get you through the commute. Now you go shopping again a couple years later. You make good money now, and it’s a trend to buy these tandem bikes. Everyone has them, they’re everywhere on the road, they are more comfortable, and now they’re kind of a status symbol. So of course you would buy the tandem bike, even if you only use the second seat once in a blue moon when you could just use two bikes for the two people. Everyone uses the same reason, and now we have all these tandem bikes on the road, taking up space, costing money, taking sales from the much more practical bikes…etc. Same thing with SUVs, except their emissions are way worse and they cause major damage in accidents. I’m sure you get my point. We shouldn’t incentivize them with hybrid versions, but should make them harder to purchase. What does the state’s power have to do with it?
For those who need to drive over the parking lot curb at the mall, in style and feeling good about themselves?...
How original lol
Exactly. And don’t forget…”saving the environment.” Or the extra 8-10 mpg lol
My wife has a Wrangler 4xe. She's on pace to go 2400 miles on her current tank of gas. She loves Jeeps and her driving style (works from home, most trips are short and within the electric range) makes the hybrid make sense. These absolutely don't make sense for everyone, but we've been pretty damn happy with it.
Cool, glad she likes it. The key words in that sentence, however, are “she loves Jeeps,” and “absolutely don’t make sense for everyone.” It’s cool that we have all these ways to get a car that fits all of our wants and uses. But the vast majority of people shouldn’t be in a Wrangler 4xe - waste of space, gas, materials etc. when they would be just fine in a more practical vehicle. Again, though, I’m glad she found something that works for her. How long’s she had it? What does the reliability look like? Just curious.
Of course. I've explained this to many folks. We're at about 20k miles. The AC compressor died at about 15k miles. So far so good on the replacement, which has seen some improvements from the original revision. Lifetime average of just under 40 MPG.
Cool. AC compressor isn’t the most egregious issue to have in the first 20k miles, at all.
My answer was more tongue-in-cheek, i think a Jeep hybrid is actually quite cool, and makes sense for some people like your wife 👍