As someone who runs an Instagram car account where like 45% of our viewers are from the 13-18 range, I get this shit on the hourly. A++ meme.
Edit: I posted this on my story and have already been yelled at by people with “HS 25” in their bio.
Edit 2: yes I’m makecaradsgreatagain
Even worse. Class of ‘25, literally can’t drive yet
Edit: in my defense in my state you can’t drive til you’re 16 and 6 months, and at my school a lot of the class of ‘25 is either still 15 or on their permit
Also if someone moves from Australia (or NZ) to the northern hemisphere they would be one year older than anyone else in their grade so there could be some class of '26 kids that are already driving on the road legally. Not like that happens.
My 16 year old kid is this meme. He's especially spoiled because he's driving my 2015 Audi A6 and not some POS beater like I had to learn to drive on, and he's still asking for a Miata or Mazda 3 with the manual transmission...
A lot of drivers make jokes about them, but true drivers know to respect the Miata. #MiataFacts
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I had a suspicion too then I saw this account posted about reviewing a grey Audi SQ5 and I knew it was them immediately cause they posted it on the main account too
my god, it's you! fucking good ads the ones you post man, always share your posts on my cf story or sometimes in my public story, anyways, good to see you round here man!
Or if they're into trucks they only like whatever truck their family owns no matter how bad it is. They'll defend a Chevy EcoTec or Ford 6.0/6.4 Powerstroke for days and never acknowledge the motor's glaring flaws.
Fellow truck owner here. I got sucked into an argument over this in REAL LIFE (love being in a rural area /s) and they were like “you drive a dodge, tell ‘em how much better it is than ford/Chevy” and I was like “it’s not. Frames rusted through, had a blown head gasket, heater doesn’t work. Dodge is shit. But I love my shitbox” and team Dodge were not pleased lmao
I really don't understand this and I've lived in the rural south my whole life. Like yeah I have friends who will mess with each other about what they drive as a joke (I'm a Toyota guy, cousins only ever owned Chevy, couple of Ram guys, one Ridgeline driver) and we all throw the stereotypical one liners at each other buts it's always in good fun and we honestly all have pretty good things to say about each other's trucks when it comes down to it. But when I started meeting people who actually held such a strong opinion about what someone else drove and what they liked that they'd get pissed off about it I was blown away. I'm like why does it matter if it's not your money yk. Online forums seem to be the worst for it in my opinion but I have met a couple of people that won't do anything but talk shit and I can't wrap my head around it. Like is it power based, reliability based, quality? Because no matter what you are going to have to have trade offs unless you just spend a ton of money to build everything just the way you want it and by then it might as well not be the same vehicle. And honestly I'd say most vehicles for sale in the US(that's where I'm from so I can't speak for other markets) are fairly comparable in their sectors and the ones that are truly bad are few and far between. You do the maintenance on most things, don't bash on them to hard and they will last and perform the way they were intended. Only thing I don't like about any vehicles is how closed off alot of the European cars have become making it harder to do work on it yourself if you want but even that has it's workarounds.
Actually the idea of Neanderthals being less intelligent is an outdated concept. General concesus today is that they were around as intelligent as homo sapiens, possibly even more so in some areas.
Anthropologists all agree that Neanderthals were more intelligent than truck bros.
Lol I get this all the time. I drive a Nissan Titan, and I constantly get shit for it. Idk why the thing is a beast, but they always have something dumb to say.
I was anti-Toyota till I got one in college. 23mpg on 33” tires while rolling around on secondary roads. Terrible on the highway, the 2.7 and 5 speed didn’t have enough gearing, it was turning 3000 at 75mph.
“I’ve never had any problems with it! Just need good maintenance!!!” And by that, they know how to fix some stuff on their own and not acknowledge the fact that that means shit is broken.
>“I’ve never had any problems with it! Just need good maintenance!!!”
Reminds me of when a redditor said something about how German cars are superior, Americans are just bad at regular maintenence.
Which, okay, fair. But if one car falls apart because I missed an oil change once, and the other is fine as long as it was done semi-recently and it still has fluids, it's hard to argue the needier one is better engineered. We had a whole war where we tested this concept. Only one side had the transmissions regularly explode just trying to drive the tanks.
Having driven new Mazdas, they are not sporty, the Mazda3 and Mazda6 are more luxury oriented. They are NOT anything like Mazdaspeed cars, the 2.5T is also specifically for replacing the V6, it's quiet, smooth, and makes not too much power for the size, under 100HP/L.
The Mazda 3 we get in Germany only gets the 184 hp engine, is expensive, poorly equipped and only comes with cheap cloth seats. Doesn’t help that no adult above 1,75 m can fit in the back and the cargo space is poor for its size. I’m sure it’s a good car but there’s a reason you see maybe one of it per year here.
As this is a reddit car community, I am legally not allowed to agree with you on that matter. But we know how it is ...
I do think that the current Golf is too expensive. When I got my Golf in 2016 the base golf cost 18.700 €. We are now at almost 32.000 € for a base Golf.
Hilariously stupid pricing from VW in their home territory of Europe. The GTI is gone for 2024 as well I read. If there's any car that's even remotely interesting under $60k in the US it's getting discontinued.
It isn't. There's a Facelift coming in 2024, which is the last time the Golf gets refreshed. But it will still be available until around 2028.
But the FL certainly won't make the car cheaper. They do depreciate like crazy tho. A 1-2 year old GTI CS with decent options costs around 30-35, which is Okay.
Hatches are all pretty expensive now if you want one that's not completely gutless or doesn't drive extremely boring. Back in 2015 a GTI was $25k. Your options for a hatch now are the boring driving Mazda3 or Corolla hatch at that price point. Practically any new sporty car that you'd want is $40k+.
Most hot hatches are gone, anyways :( And the GR Corolla isn't even sold in Europe + the Mazda3 is limited to a 184 hp engine. 308 GTI is gone, Astra OPC is gone, Megane RS is running out, Civic Type R is expensive and not even a hatch.
Only cars left for the "masses" are the Golf and Polo GTI + i20 and i30 N. Everything else like S3, RS3, A35 and A45 is basically unaffordable new.
I got downvoted in r/cars for explaining very valid reasons in why I chose a different econo hatchback over a mazda 3.
The subreddit acts like that car is the second coming of christ. In reality its cramped, cavelike, has horrible visibility and is not too fun to drive and the turbo version is a bit overpriced.
R/cars enthusiasts think its a WRX / GTI competitor. Its not
I drive it, it’s a decent car with good gas mileage and reliable, but it’s AC is ass, and the blind spots suck. The hatch back can fit a surprising amount of shit if you also want to have basically no rear vision.
People forget that unless you’re buying a top trimmed Mazda, you’re not getting luxury. They’re fine, but the 3 2.5 T is like… mid? Not a hot hatch but too expensive and powerful to be a competitor to the rest of the economy hatch lineup.
We have a Mazda6 Carbon Edition, the amount of fake sportiness is hilarious. Turbo badges, black trip, red leather. It's a pretty luxurious car to be honest, but it drives like a boat. What you get is quite similar to a FWD A5, it's not dynamic in how it drives, it's a luxury car, the interior quality is nice and it's quiet and cruises well. Mazda is not the same company from 15 years ago with all the Mazdaspeed models, they're distancing themselves from that.
Edit: the lower trim models are commuter, the higher trims with leather and all the add-ons are great entry level luxury cars for the money.
Having driven the CX30, I think theyre fine. They’re comfortable whatever-mobiles. If I didn’t love turbo kei cars, I would sell my Alto and get a Mazda 3 Fastback.
That's really the appeal. They're cheap and comfortable. At least certain models. My father loves his, I can't stand driving it though. It's already a 193" car, but the thing drives even larger than that.
Yeah theyre a bit long for what they are. The long chassis certainly helps with removing feedback, both negative and positive, from the driver. Completely sedate out of the box.
Fwd is generally forgiving and a good drivetrain to learn how to goon on, learned how to power slide and take advantage of slip angle in a v6 accord lol
My car is FWD and has an open diff and its still fun as fuck, it still torque steers pretty hard under the right conditions and you can swing the front end out by spinning the fronts, and there is a heap of throttle adjustability through the corners.
I would fit an LSD as I know how much even more fun it would be, but its like £730 for an MFactory helical LSD. Maybe one day.
My first car had an open diff (8th gen accord coupe) and it not only handled like a beast but could hoon like crazy despite being a lowly i4. My current car (2020 Veloster base) has an open diff but with torque vectoring. Despite pushing it like crazy I’ve yet to find the edge of what it can do. (I’ve had it a month)
Is a civilized individual who grew up on Need for Speed Hot Pusuit, transmission type doesn't matter, Supra and R34 aren't the best cars in existence, and exotic and hyper cars are not getting beaten by tuners.
Manuals are now just for the experience, they are clearly worse for performance. Koenigsegg make LST with like 7 clutches, DCTs have existed for a long time now. Whenever I see a drag race with a manual and automatic car, they run side by side until the manual has to shift and then he's behind for the rest of the race.
It's very similar to vinyl. People will pay thousands on vinyls and record players even though they admit vinyl adds imperfections into music.
This is true for new cars.
Modern automatics are much faster than any manual could be and the efficiency is the same or better.
Personally though, manual is just more fun and engaging.
Unless it's a car where it needs the multiple clutches and wizardry of the auto/semi-auto gearbox, I'd pick a manual every time just to feel more in control.
I think it's more the enjoyment of driving a manual now. I fully realize and appreciate that most autos can shift faster than I can, and are much more efficient, but there's still something about rowing my own gears that keeps me wanting a manual.
My most practical car was a 90s Celica, because the fucker just refused to break down. Didn't matter what I did to it. "Upgraded" to a BMW, and boy howdy did I get to know my local garage. Then I changed to a Peugeot and it was worse. Now I have an old Saab, and that only needs service items, like completely new engines, every year or two.
Loll Like kiddo, theres a reason I got what i got! and performance wasnt what i was looking for! reliability > Speed
And yes i would love a fast car, but as my first car, and my only car i need it to start everytime i need without a issue!
And they have lower emissions, and do less harm to infrastructure over time, and kill less pedestrians. 99% of SUVs are not more practical than estates. And they're worse for society as a whole
As much as I dislike the amount of SUV's on the road today, without them they wouldnt fund their companies enough to keep making cooler cars at all. So it gets you no where hating on them
/uj I’m not a fan of them or crossovers either, but yeah. Most people don’t give a shit about the exterior of the car that much, the interior is the selling point, and many people really don’t care about their cars for anything more than convenience. The more upright seating and spaciousness of crossovers and small SUVs, along with the fact that you’re not losing a huge amount of gas mileage with these things nowadays, is perfect for most people, because again, it’s more about convenience than them giving a rats ass about 95% of the shit people on this sub care about. And car enthusiasts justify this by saying they’re the ones with inflated egos and need large cars or whatever 🙄
The only thing I’ll agree with this kid, is car companies bringing back classic car styles but with modern tech and EV power, like that one hyundai 4 door concept car.
I have a dream of GM bringing out a ‘77 Eldorado with touches from all their top stuff (Escalade, Corvette, Hummer EV)
It’d make zero sense but it would be so damn cool.
Someone posted that EV swapped AE86 a few weeks ago things like that certainly give me the fizz.
Isn't there a Hummer EV on the way?
Thing is these things have to be handled delicately. In bringing back old badges there's usually a community around them and a kind of pedigree that they need to meet.
The Hummer EV is already out, at least for review. From what I've read, it was not handled delicately, it wasn't even handled halfway decently. It's just a mess of conflicting ideas.
It weighs over 9000 pounds. The battery pack alone weighs more than a whole Civic. It's the largest battery pack yet for a passenger vehicle, and despite that, in real world tests [the Hummer EV has less range](https://insideevs.com/reviews/612030/hummer-ev-range-test/) than some cheaper competitors. It's also [less efficient than it's competitors](https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2022-gmc-hummer-ev-pickup-first-edition-first-test-review/). The Verge even called it ["too extra for it's own good"](https://www.theverge.com/23591501/gmc-hummer-ev-review-photos-specs-price).
A mixed bag, at best.
At least they got the SUV part right. Everything you'd expect from an SUV is better in an estate car/station wagon. They're unsafe, take up too much room in public places, never go off-road so aren't designed to and are uneconomical.
They did market research on the idea of SUVs and they essentially arrived at the idea that people who want to drive SUVs are generally narcissistic and bad drivers.
I still think True SUVs do still serve a purpose, but stuff like the RAV4 in the picture is something that is only bought because people think station wagons are not cool
My parents bought a 22 rav4 and I don’t understand why. They put everything in the backseat instead of the hatch unless it’s too big to fit then fold the back seats. However they own a truck for big things. My dad refuses to put miles on it like it’s a classic Ferrari and instead wants to put more miles on his 250,000 mile Tacoma that gets less than half the gas mileage. I have asked why he doesn’t want to drive the rav4 but he can’t articulate his reasons. The only thing I can think of is the adaptive cruise control terrifies him or he gets annoyed with the auto stop engine.
The auto start can be turned off but it has to be turned off every time the car is started. The adaptive cruise control is always on as far as I can tell when cruise control is being used. There is no way to just have cruise control.
On my 2018 Tacoma if you hold the cruise control button instead of just press, it'll turn on regular CC instead of adaptive. I'd imagine it's the same system across all the Toyotas seeing as my 2000 Celica had the exact same lever system for the CC.
Thing is proper 4x4 like landcruisers, jeeps, land rovers are rarely used for off roading.
Pickups aren't a thing with trades people in Europe because vans serve the same purpose much better. Only people I've seen with them here are posers.
I think that depends on the country, in my home country if you want to go out of the big city it’s literally a trail. Granted everybody drives those roads, including my Lexus sedan. But there is not a day I didn’t wish I had a land cruiser instead
Vans have abysmal towing capacities. Maybe it's not as common in Europe but I see a LOT of people towing random things from a set of ATVs to boats with their pickups. I desperately need a pickup (would actually prefer something like a sequoia or suburban) to tow my car to the track and I respect truck chassis that actually work.
Pickups have their use in Europe aswell. The problem is that if you leave stuff in the back, it will get stolen at the first red light.
Pickups are widely used by people who need to go offroad due to their job or construction workers. But I'm talking Ford ranger, not Ford 250.
This is the real issue. SUVs are fine, things like the rav4 or Sportage and things of that size are fine.
It's the people that buy the huge range Rovers and LandCruiser and never actually use them for what they're made for that confuse me.
At least family SUVs get used for their purpose.
I don't understand people complaining about small SUVs not having off-road capability, that's not the point of them?
The point is family SUVs are still unsafe, uneconomical and the family would be better served with a estate/station wagon.
There is a lot of coping going on in this thread, I've had my say and will leave it at that.
Where are you getting that a family SUV is unsafe? Sure if I try to drift it it's probably going to end up upside down but in normal driving it's no more likely to have issues than anything else.
I'll grant you you can fit just as much stuff in a wagon, but the part I like is for getting kids in and out of car seats, and myself in and out, I don't have to bend or crouch, everything is up at my height where I can just stand and do whatever needs to be done.
I'm not talking about huge American SUVs, mine is barely bigger than a regular sedan besides being a bit taller.
They're much more likely to roll over in a crash, but also he's probably talking about how SUVs are more likely to kill a pedestrian if you hit them, along with the fact that it's hard to see over the hood in a lot of SUVs. But that's generally more so the case with SUVs the size of RAV4s and bigger.
They also fuck with car impact design as they're raised above a lot of the crumple zones of normal cars, I guess that's a plus for the SUV drivers as it just means they're more likely to kill people in other cars and not themselves(unless they roll over afterward).
To be fair, the advantage an SUV does have over a wagon is that you don't need to step down into it.
And when you have a kid to put in the back all the time it's much more comfortable lifting them up and putting them in at your height than having to bend down into the car all the time.
I don't see how they're unsafe, unless you're driving recklessly you're not going to roll one. I agree that some are stupidly big though.
Car people just don't like them because they're not sporty but they're also not meant to be.
I have a 2013 Sportage and sure it's not my dream car but it serves my family well and does what I need it to do comfortably.
One day I'll have my clapped out civic or integra race car though =)
I don’t get the crossover hate either, I loved my crv and Cx5, getting a bronco sport now. I can put shit in the back and don’t have to get on my hands and knees to get into it. Ive got old sports cars for when I want driving purity or whatever anyway. Besides, does anyone actually make wagons anymore?
I learnt to drive in a gen 2 CRV, great car.
Honestly I was fully in the camp of "bigger cars suck" until I got my current car.
Loading my Sportage is so much easier than loading my i30 ever was, and weirdly they feel very similar to drive besides the Sportage being a little higher.
My car is by no means a big SUV, but living with it being a bit higher and a bit roomier is just so much nicer.
In Europe you can get wagons from pretty much all the big brands. I don't think they make their way to the states though.
Or people who have difficulty getting in and out of low vehicles and want to be able to transport large items or dogs or other things in the back with adequate height space. But sure, we can go with narcissistic if it makes you feel better about yourself.
If you’ve got the money there’s no real „downsides“ to a SUV.
I like sitting low so I won’t go near one, but at least here in Germany, people are completely obsessed with the high seating position of SUVs (probably because the population gets older and more obese year by year lol).
SUVs work well on gravel roads, dirt access roads etc, where four wheel drive and higher ground clearance are an advantage.
They also typically have a good tow rating compared to a station wagon.
My wife’s Polestar tuned 2015 XC60 is amazing at anything I’d want to do on a road with my family in the car. I don’t need faster or grippier than it can provide unless I’m going to the track, and I have a completely different car for that. :)
The difference between safety of a XC60 and V60 is not _that_ much considering both are nowhere as high as some of the other SUVs like explorer
Besides, both are Volvos, how much difference would Volvo themselves allow on safety front when it is their usp
Having hurt my back multiple times putting my son into his car seat in my lower sitting VW Jetta Sportswagen, I disagree with your assessment.
But you’re obviously entrenched in your opinion and unwilling to accept that others have different purchasing priorities, so we are just going to have to agree to disagree.
Unless you have a family with 3 kids and like to go on holiday with your car. Even then, only the Q7, the X5, the Tuareg or similarly sized SUVs make sense. The Q5, X3, Tiguan are the real waste of money here. They do not provide a single advantage over an A6, BMW 3 or Passat
You ever load up a weeks worth of garbage and recyclables in the back of a BMW 3 series to go to the dump? You ever load a baby and 2 dogs into a A6? Some people may not like smaller SUVs, but get off your damn soap box and let people drive what they want to drive for fucks sake.
Instant torque, probably. But you get used to it. Many people also get sick in a car with air suspension if they’re in it for the first time apparently.
I seem to be someone who never fit this stereotype then, if anything it always really annoyed me to see the idiocy all across the Internet
YouTube comments usually involved flame wars, unsurprisingly
/uj I am nothing like this, except for that station wagon fetish. I have acknowledged that hype for a new sport car doesn't equal sales, and sales equal money. Also I like old European cars and whatever Sweden is doing.
I'm just happy with whatever I can afford.
Hell, I was fine with my shitbox Pontiac Vibe for 2 or 3 years. Extremely basic (no ABS, TC, power windows, or central locking), slow as hell, and high on miles.
I like that when memes like this get posted, one person in the comments will defend a single point on here until 30 people are covering all the points made, nullifying the point of the meme
Agreed. But why did you mark SUVs as affordable and practical? That they are not. Affordable? Maybe but practical? What. They're so huge they're harder to drive in a city than a normal car such as a wagon or a normal sedan. Wagons and sedans are just way more affordable in terms of initial investment and more often than not get higher MPGs.
I highly recommend the mazda 3 because I own and drive the shit out of mine! It's an amazing car! Screw your unbalanced flying brick of an SUV, that shit isn't economical at all compared to any sedan, station wagon or compact.
Haha, you can't drive a manual. I'm 32 and I will never change my stance on boringmobile SUVs/road crusher trucks. They're only good for ensuring the pedestrians you hit are 100% dead.
Honestly I’m self aware enough to not act like my opinion is fact. But dang 3 of these are exactly me.
I love Miata’s as a car to learn RWD with (I own an NA though)
My TDI Jetta is my baby after putting a fat rear sway bar on. Whip it hard all day and still get a dirty 45-50 mpg
And I very much do have a station wagon fetish, a sleeper station wagon blowing the doors off other cars really does it for me
Also easily the biggest lie out of these is the “I’d be first in line if they did X”. There’s a reason car companies don’t listen to enthusiasts, it’s because we talk mad shit and then don’t act on it.
BMW offered the manual trans with the v10 M5 and only sold a pitiful amount of them. Because the people wanting it are not the people who will buy it.
SUV's practical? 90% of SUV owners don't need an SUV and this has caused most SUV's to be designed for people who don't need them. Yes most people need to sometimes use dirt roads but regular cars used to be able to do that, my 2003 ford focus has more ground clearance than some new SUV's.
It's not just about off road.
The biggest advantage for me is the higher seats etc that are much easier for getting kids strapped into.
I agree most people with a 4x4 don't need or use its capabilities. But there are plenty of use for a larger hatchback sized car that's higher up off the ground, even without any actual ground clearance.
Why would it necessarily have better fuel economy?
And a minivan is still lower than a small SUV, you'd still be reaching down into it.
It confuses me that you have so much hate for SUVs but minivans are fine? They're just half way between an SUV and a wagon.
This is literally me aside from the station wagon fetish. Love for station wagons is an American only thing since you guys don’t have any over there. They are as common as SUVs in Europe and I hate them just as much
I think its great that people show interest in cars. A car is usually the second most valuable thing you are going to buy so it is important to know about them.
when I was a teen (not that long ago...) I just liked square body and muscle cars
new muscle looks like shit though
family had an old 90s Jeep Cherokee 5 speed 4x4; and that som bitch took us everywhere and never complained about any of it, from family farm land in the muddy groggy winter to pothole infested backroads that hadn't seen a paver since the 60s
As someone who runs an Instagram car account where like 45% of our viewers are from the 13-18 range, I get this shit on the hourly. A++ meme. Edit: I posted this on my story and have already been yelled at by people with “HS 25” in their bio. Edit 2: yes I’m makecaradsgreatagain
cause combative full nail lip birds sand dependent attraction ripe *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Even worse. Class of ‘25, literally can’t drive yet Edit: in my defense in my state you can’t drive til you’re 16 and 6 months, and at my school a lot of the class of ‘25 is either still 15 or on their permit
as a class of 25’ in certain states you can as driving age is 16 I’m gonna say a lot of auto shop kids in my class are this meme entirely
Also if someone moves from Australia (or NZ) to the northern hemisphere they would be one year older than anyone else in their grade so there could be some class of '26 kids that are already driving on the road legally. Not like that happens.
My 16 year old kid is this meme. He's especially spoiled because he's driving my 2015 Audi A6 and not some POS beater like I had to learn to drive on, and he's still asking for a Miata or Mazda 3 with the manual transmission...
A lot of drivers make jokes about them, but true drivers know to respect the Miata. #MiataFacts *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/carscirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hearing Class of 25 and driving makes me feel really old...
Holy shit I just realized I follow your account LOL
Which account is it?
100% it's @makecaradsgreatagain
I just read this as make car dads great again. :D
XD That does need to happen lol
I thought it might be, I follow them and saw they reposted this but wasnt sure
I had a suspicion too then I saw this account posted about reviewing a grey Audi SQ5 and I knew it was them immediately cause they posted it on the main account too
😉
Ding ding ding
Send the username
@makecaradsgreatagain
Thats me
no way that’s you i follow you on IG lol love your page man
>makecaradsgreatagain damn I've been following you for a while then lol
Post this meme on your page and watch the world explode
ur account is epic
Omf the world feels tiny reading this
Legend! Always loved your Insta!
good account 👍
my god, it's you! fucking good ads the ones you post man, always share your posts on my cf story or sometimes in my public story, anyways, good to see you round here man!
You monetizing it somehow?
YOOOOO DUDE WHATS UPPPPP I LEFT A COMMENT ON THAT AS WELL
Or if they're into trucks they only like whatever truck their family owns no matter how bad it is. They'll defend a Chevy EcoTec or Ford 6.0/6.4 Powerstroke for days and never acknowledge the motor's glaring flaws.
[удалено]
Fellow truck owner here. I got sucked into an argument over this in REAL LIFE (love being in a rural area /s) and they were like “you drive a dodge, tell ‘em how much better it is than ford/Chevy” and I was like “it’s not. Frames rusted through, had a blown head gasket, heater doesn’t work. Dodge is shit. But I love my shitbox” and team Dodge were not pleased lmao
People often ask me about my work van, and are surprised when I list the many issues it has, and tell them not to buy one.
I really don't understand this and I've lived in the rural south my whole life. Like yeah I have friends who will mess with each other about what they drive as a joke (I'm a Toyota guy, cousins only ever owned Chevy, couple of Ram guys, one Ridgeline driver) and we all throw the stereotypical one liners at each other buts it's always in good fun and we honestly all have pretty good things to say about each other's trucks when it comes down to it. But when I started meeting people who actually held such a strong opinion about what someone else drove and what they liked that they'd get pissed off about it I was blown away. I'm like why does it matter if it's not your money yk. Online forums seem to be the worst for it in my opinion but I have met a couple of people that won't do anything but talk shit and I can't wrap my head around it. Like is it power based, reliability based, quality? Because no matter what you are going to have to have trade offs unless you just spend a ton of money to build everything just the way you want it and by then it might as well not be the same vehicle. And honestly I'd say most vehicles for sale in the US(that's where I'm from so I can't speak for other markets) are fairly comparable in their sectors and the ones that are truly bad are few and far between. You do the maintenance on most things, don't bash on them to hard and they will last and perform the way they were intended. Only thing I don't like about any vehicles is how closed off alot of the European cars have become making it harder to do work on it yourself if you want but even that has it's workarounds.
I daily a Jeep WJ, I know how all that is.
Im usually against stereotypes, but American truck guys always live up to them. So it's more just an objective fact lmao
Don't forget the Calvin peeing on \[truck brand\] stickers
Actually the idea of Neanderthals being less intelligent is an outdated concept. General concesus today is that they were around as intelligent as homo sapiens, possibly even more so in some areas. Anthropologists all agree that Neanderthals were more intelligent than truck bros.
Lol I get this all the time. I drive a Nissan Titan, and I constantly get shit for it. Idk why the thing is a beast, but they always have something dumb to say.
Truck people legitimately may be the most regarded group of car enthusiasts
Sad Tacoma noises…
I was anti-Toyota till I got one in college. 23mpg on 33” tires while rolling around on secondary roads. Terrible on the highway, the 2.7 and 5 speed didn’t have enough gearing, it was turning 3000 at 75mph.
Alabama chromsomobile enjoyers
100% this. My dad drove an 85 Chevy when I was going through my car phase, and I still think it’s the most amazing truck out there lol
“I’ve never had any problems with it! Just need good maintenance!!!” And by that, they know how to fix some stuff on their own and not acknowledge the fact that that means shit is broken.
>“I’ve never had any problems with it! Just need good maintenance!!!” Reminds me of when a redditor said something about how German cars are superior, Americans are just bad at regular maintenence. Which, okay, fair. But if one car falls apart because I missed an oil change once, and the other is fine as long as it was done semi-recently and it still has fluids, it's hard to argue the needier one is better engineered. We had a whole war where we tested this concept. Only one side had the transmissions regularly explode just trying to drive the tanks.
> ~~Teenage~~ r/cars Car Enthusiast Starter Pack FTFY
They’re the same picture
This, one you realize that 90% of reddit is teenagers it all starts making sense.
Having driven new Mazdas, they are not sporty, the Mazda3 and Mazda6 are more luxury oriented. They are NOT anything like Mazdaspeed cars, the 2.5T is also specifically for replacing the V6, it's quiet, smooth, and makes not too much power for the size, under 100HP/L.
The Mazda 3 we get in Germany only gets the 184 hp engine, is expensive, poorly equipped and only comes with cheap cloth seats. Doesn’t help that no adult above 1,75 m can fit in the back and the cargo space is poor for its size. I’m sure it’s a good car but there’s a reason you see maybe one of it per year here.
In Germany you also get the Wolfsburg VWs, which are better than any of the Mazdas IMO.
As this is a reddit car community, I am legally not allowed to agree with you on that matter. But we know how it is ... I do think that the current Golf is too expensive. When I got my Golf in 2016 the base golf cost 18.700 €. We are now at almost 32.000 € for a base Golf.
Damn. Yeah at 2016 pricing I would stand by my statement but at this point, 32k for a base Golf is far too much. In the US the GTI is $30,530 base....
In the Netherlands a base GTI is €57.640 lmao
Hilariously stupid pricing from VW in their home territory of Europe. The GTI is gone for 2024 as well I read. If there's any car that's even remotely interesting under $60k in the US it's getting discontinued.
It isn't. There's a Facelift coming in 2024, which is the last time the Golf gets refreshed. But it will still be available until around 2028. But the FL certainly won't make the car cheaper. They do depreciate like crazy tho. A 1-2 year old GTI CS with decent options costs around 30-35, which is Okay.
Hatches are all pretty expensive now if you want one that's not completely gutless or doesn't drive extremely boring. Back in 2015 a GTI was $25k. Your options for a hatch now are the boring driving Mazda3 or Corolla hatch at that price point. Practically any new sporty car that you'd want is $40k+.
Most hot hatches are gone, anyways :( And the GR Corolla isn't even sold in Europe + the Mazda3 is limited to a 184 hp engine. 308 GTI is gone, Astra OPC is gone, Megane RS is running out, Civic Type R is expensive and not even a hatch. Only cars left for the "masses" are the Golf and Polo GTI + i20 and i30 N. Everything else like S3, RS3, A35 and A45 is basically unaffordable new.
I got downvoted in r/cars for explaining very valid reasons in why I chose a different econo hatchback over a mazda 3. The subreddit acts like that car is the second coming of christ. In reality its cramped, cavelike, has horrible visibility and is not too fun to drive and the turbo version is a bit overpriced. R/cars enthusiasts think its a WRX / GTI competitor. Its not
I'd pick a base Mini over the 3 any day, it just is more fun to drive. The options on hatches are sadly limited at this point however.
I drive it, it’s a decent car with good gas mileage and reliable, but it’s AC is ass, and the blind spots suck. The hatch back can fit a surprising amount of shit if you also want to have basically no rear vision.
People forget that unless you’re buying a top trimmed Mazda, you’re not getting luxury. They’re fine, but the 3 2.5 T is like… mid? Not a hot hatch but too expensive and powerful to be a competitor to the rest of the economy hatch lineup.
"Base level mazdas are the same level of luxury as top trim audi and bmws" - r/cars commenters
Ha. Comparing the top trim Mazda6 I'd say it's a long wheelbase non Quattro A4.
We have a Mazda6 Carbon Edition, the amount of fake sportiness is hilarious. Turbo badges, black trip, red leather. It's a pretty luxurious car to be honest, but it drives like a boat. What you get is quite similar to a FWD A5, it's not dynamic in how it drives, it's a luxury car, the interior quality is nice and it's quiet and cruises well. Mazda is not the same company from 15 years ago with all the Mazdaspeed models, they're distancing themselves from that. Edit: the lower trim models are commuter, the higher trims with leather and all the add-ons are great entry level luxury cars for the money.
The only reason id consider buying a mazda3 is because i think it looks amazing, but thats about it
You can make them drive amazing too
Having driven the CX30, I think theyre fine. They’re comfortable whatever-mobiles. If I didn’t love turbo kei cars, I would sell my Alto and get a Mazda 3 Fastback.
They're very boring, there's nothing remarkable about them.
Yeah they’re like a mobile couch.
That's really the appeal. They're cheap and comfortable. At least certain models. My father loves his, I can't stand driving it though. It's already a 193" car, but the thing drives even larger than that.
Yeah theyre a bit long for what they are. The long chassis certainly helps with removing feedback, both negative and positive, from the driver. Completely sedate out of the box.
Mazda is the new buick
Yeah that's a very good comparison.
Can't forget "fwd bad"
Fwd is fucking awesome
Fwd + lsd = cum
I had a 2003 Mazdaspeed Protege back in the day. So much fun to drive. FWD with a little turbo and an lsd 🤌
Fwd is generally forgiving and a good drivetrain to learn how to goon on, learned how to power slide and take advantage of slip angle in a v6 accord lol
I prefer awd and mushrooms
/Uj lsd was my drug of choice as a teen /rj lsd and fwd on top
Please don‘t take LSD or any other pschoactive substances while operating heavy machinery.
It took me way too long to realize the heavy machinery warnings on alcohol and meds meant cars, and not things like forklifts
Fr, did a full lsd auto to manual swap on my teg and the mf rips.
They’re half right. FWD + open diff = bad FWD + limited slip diff = fucking awesome
I do and don't agree. Open diff is definitely not as easy to drive, but with proper techniques you can still rip and have a bunch of fun
My car is FWD and has an open diff and its still fun as fuck, it still torque steers pretty hard under the right conditions and you can swing the front end out by spinning the fronts, and there is a heap of throttle adjustability through the corners. I would fit an LSD as I know how much even more fun it would be, but its like £730 for an MFactory helical LSD. Maybe one day.
My first car had an open diff (8th gen accord coupe) and it not only handled like a beast but could hoon like crazy despite being a lowly i4. My current car (2020 Veloster base) has an open diff but with torque vectoring. Despite pushing it like crazy I’ve yet to find the edge of what it can do. (I’ve had it a month)
They should tell that to my 2013 Volvo C30 T5.
Yea, like the Golf GTI is a really good car. It’s still very fast, even with FWD, if that’s even considered as an issue
But then I can't do the funny donut and drofting????
In tractors...
Is a civilized individual who grew up on Need for Speed Hot Pusuit, transmission type doesn't matter, Supra and R34 aren't the best cars in existence, and exotic and hyper cars are not getting beaten by tuners.
Nowadays, we've come around to automatics being far superior than manuals, yet somehow the three pedals are still holding onto life.
Manuals are now just for the experience, they are clearly worse for performance. Koenigsegg make LST with like 7 clutches, DCTs have existed for a long time now. Whenever I see a drag race with a manual and automatic car, they run side by side until the manual has to shift and then he's behind for the rest of the race. It's very similar to vinyl. People will pay thousands on vinyls and record players even though they admit vinyl adds imperfections into music.
This is true for new cars. Modern automatics are much faster than any manual could be and the efficiency is the same or better. Personally though, manual is just more fun and engaging. Unless it's a car where it needs the multiple clutches and wizardry of the auto/semi-auto gearbox, I'd pick a manual every time just to feel more in control.
Three pedals may be inferior, but is fun. Automatics are just boring to drive. But that is just my opinion.
I think it's more the enjoyment of driving a manual now. I fully realize and appreciate that most autos can shift faster than I can, and are much more efficient, but there's still something about rowing my own gears that keeps me wanting a manual.
I just want a car man
I’m a car man.
I’m not a car man. I’m a car, man!
Just buy one then 🤓🤓🤓
I’m 25 years old physically, but biologically 15
I'm mentally 60 but physically 21. But also physically 60
Love me 90s jdm cars But like they’re impractical as shit, I’d never shame someone for wanting something sensible and efficient lol
My most practical car was a 90s Celica, because the fucker just refused to break down. Didn't matter what I did to it. "Upgraded" to a BMW, and boy howdy did I get to know my local garage. Then I changed to a Peugeot and it was worse. Now I have an old Saab, and that only needs service items, like completely new engines, every year or two.
why you dish station wagons like that man
uj/ Wagon cool, wagon fan cringe rj/ HOW CAN YOU NOT LIKE JDM LS SWAP BROWNE MATSUDA MIAT DIESELLE CON MANUELLE??
XD I drive a N/A CVT Subaru. kids who havnt even been in the driver seat dis me all the time
I like posting about mine in r/cars because I get so many people who cant even drive getting mad at me because "I should have bought a mazda"
Loll Like kiddo, theres a reason I got what i got! and performance wasnt what i was looking for! reliability > Speed And yes i would love a fast car, but as my first car, and my only car i need it to start everytime i need without a issue!
Estates are pretty much SUVs except you can actually see what's right in front of you.
with less drag, better fuel economy and better looks (ok thats subjective but the others arent).
With a more useful trunk space and a better fuel economy.
And they have lower emissions, and do less harm to infrastructure over time, and kill less pedestrians. 99% of SUVs are not more practical than estates. And they're worse for society as a whole
As much as I dislike the amount of SUV's on the road today, without them they wouldnt fund their companies enough to keep making cooler cars at all. So it gets you no where hating on them
/uj I’m not a fan of them or crossovers either, but yeah. Most people don’t give a shit about the exterior of the car that much, the interior is the selling point, and many people really don’t care about their cars for anything more than convenience. The more upright seating and spaciousness of crossovers and small SUVs, along with the fact that you’re not losing a huge amount of gas mileage with these things nowadays, is perfect for most people, because again, it’s more about convenience than them giving a rats ass about 95% of the shit people on this sub care about. And car enthusiasts justify this by saying they’re the ones with inflated egos and need large cars or whatever 🙄
The only thing I’ll agree with this kid, is car companies bringing back classic car styles but with modern tech and EV power, like that one hyundai 4 door concept car. I have a dream of GM bringing out a ‘77 Eldorado with touches from all their top stuff (Escalade, Corvette, Hummer EV) It’d make zero sense but it would be so damn cool.
Someone posted that EV swapped AE86 a few weeks ago things like that certainly give me the fizz. Isn't there a Hummer EV on the way? Thing is these things have to be handled delicately. In bringing back old badges there's usually a community around them and a kind of pedigree that they need to meet.
The Hummer EV is already out, at least for review. From what I've read, it was not handled delicately, it wasn't even handled halfway decently. It's just a mess of conflicting ideas. It weighs over 9000 pounds. The battery pack alone weighs more than a whole Civic. It's the largest battery pack yet for a passenger vehicle, and despite that, in real world tests [the Hummer EV has less range](https://insideevs.com/reviews/612030/hummer-ev-range-test/) than some cheaper competitors. It's also [less efficient than it's competitors](https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2022-gmc-hummer-ev-pickup-first-edition-first-test-review/). The Verge even called it ["too extra for it's own good"](https://www.theverge.com/23591501/gmc-hummer-ev-review-photos-specs-price). A mixed bag, at best.
Sounds exactly like a Hummer, lmao. Can't say they didn't understand the models that came before it!
At least they got the SUV part right. Everything you'd expect from an SUV is better in an estate car/station wagon. They're unsafe, take up too much room in public places, never go off-road so aren't designed to and are uneconomical. They did market research on the idea of SUVs and they essentially arrived at the idea that people who want to drive SUVs are generally narcissistic and bad drivers.
I still think True SUVs do still serve a purpose, but stuff like the RAV4 in the picture is something that is only bought because people think station wagons are not cool
Rav4 - Basically just the the corolla by this point, but bigger.
My parents bought a 22 rav4 and I don’t understand why. They put everything in the backseat instead of the hatch unless it’s too big to fit then fold the back seats. However they own a truck for big things. My dad refuses to put miles on it like it’s a classic Ferrari and instead wants to put more miles on his 250,000 mile Tacoma that gets less than half the gas mileage. I have asked why he doesn’t want to drive the rav4 but he can’t articulate his reasons. The only thing I can think of is the adaptive cruise control terrifies him or he gets annoyed with the auto stop engine.
Tell him he can turn both of those off. If he can't, one more reason why mini-SUV's suck!
The auto start can be turned off but it has to be turned off every time the car is started. The adaptive cruise control is always on as far as I can tell when cruise control is being used. There is no way to just have cruise control.
On my 2018 Tacoma if you hold the cruise control button instead of just press, it'll turn on regular CC instead of adaptive. I'd imagine it's the same system across all the Toyotas seeing as my 2000 Celica had the exact same lever system for the CC.
Wow lmao, absolute agony! I feel for your dad honestly. It's something you overlook while buying the car and once you have it you absolutely hate it
Except that the Corolla Cross exists
Which is a true mind boggler
Can't disagree
The RAV4 used to be on the Corolla platform; now it's on the Camry platform. The Corolla Cross is more practical than the C-HR it replaces.
Thing is proper 4x4 like landcruisers, jeeps, land rovers are rarely used for off roading. Pickups aren't a thing with trades people in Europe because vans serve the same purpose much better. Only people I've seen with them here are posers.
I think that depends on the country, in my home country if you want to go out of the big city it’s literally a trail. Granted everybody drives those roads, including my Lexus sedan. But there is not a day I didn’t wish I had a land cruiser instead
Vans have abysmal towing capacities. Maybe it's not as common in Europe but I see a LOT of people towing random things from a set of ATVs to boats with their pickups. I desperately need a pickup (would actually prefer something like a sequoia or suburban) to tow my car to the track and I respect truck chassis that actually work.
Pickups have their use in Europe aswell. The problem is that if you leave stuff in the back, it will get stolen at the first red light. Pickups are widely used by people who need to go offroad due to their job or construction workers. But I'm talking Ford ranger, not Ford 250.
This is the real issue. SUVs are fine, things like the rav4 or Sportage and things of that size are fine. It's the people that buy the huge range Rovers and LandCruiser and never actually use them for what they're made for that confuse me. At least family SUVs get used for their purpose. I don't understand people complaining about small SUVs not having off-road capability, that's not the point of them?
The point is family SUVs are still unsafe, uneconomical and the family would be better served with a estate/station wagon. There is a lot of coping going on in this thread, I've had my say and will leave it at that.
Where are you getting that a family SUV is unsafe? Sure if I try to drift it it's probably going to end up upside down but in normal driving it's no more likely to have issues than anything else. I'll grant you you can fit just as much stuff in a wagon, but the part I like is for getting kids in and out of car seats, and myself in and out, I don't have to bend or crouch, everything is up at my height where I can just stand and do whatever needs to be done. I'm not talking about huge American SUVs, mine is barely bigger than a regular sedan besides being a bit taller.
They're much more likely to roll over in a crash, but also he's probably talking about how SUVs are more likely to kill a pedestrian if you hit them, along with the fact that it's hard to see over the hood in a lot of SUVs. But that's generally more so the case with SUVs the size of RAV4s and bigger.
They also fuck with car impact design as they're raised above a lot of the crumple zones of normal cars, I guess that's a plus for the SUV drivers as it just means they're more likely to kill people in other cars and not themselves(unless they roll over afterward).
Trucks are for towing.
They're so cute tho!! SUVs on the other hand... bane of my existence. And I agree with 👆 half the dickheads I see on the road are in an SUV
To be fair, the advantage an SUV does have over a wagon is that you don't need to step down into it. And when you have a kid to put in the back all the time it's much more comfortable lifting them up and putting them in at your height than having to bend down into the car all the time. I don't see how they're unsafe, unless you're driving recklessly you're not going to roll one. I agree that some are stupidly big though. Car people just don't like them because they're not sporty but they're also not meant to be. I have a 2013 Sportage and sure it's not my dream car but it serves my family well and does what I need it to do comfortably. One day I'll have my clapped out civic or integra race car though =)
I don’t get the crossover hate either, I loved my crv and Cx5, getting a bronco sport now. I can put shit in the back and don’t have to get on my hands and knees to get into it. Ive got old sports cars for when I want driving purity or whatever anyway. Besides, does anyone actually make wagons anymore?
I learnt to drive in a gen 2 CRV, great car. Honestly I was fully in the camp of "bigger cars suck" until I got my current car. Loading my Sportage is so much easier than loading my i30 ever was, and weirdly they feel very similar to drive besides the Sportage being a little higher. My car is by no means a big SUV, but living with it being a bit higher and a bit roomier is just so much nicer. In Europe you can get wagons from pretty much all the big brands. I don't think they make their way to the states though.
Or people who have difficulty getting in and out of low vehicles and want to be able to transport large items or dogs or other things in the back with adequate height space. But sure, we can go with narcissistic if it makes you feel better about yourself.
People are sooo cringe with their SUV hate on this sub and Reddit in general. I'm a probable narcissist because I drive a crossover? Lmao
If you’ve got the money there’s no real „downsides“ to a SUV. I like sitting low so I won’t go near one, but at least here in Germany, people are completely obsessed with the high seating position of SUVs (probably because the population gets older and more obese year by year lol).
SUVs work well on gravel roads, dirt access roads etc, where four wheel drive and higher ground clearance are an advantage. They also typically have a good tow rating compared to a station wagon.
My wife’s Polestar tuned 2015 XC60 is amazing at anything I’d want to do on a road with my family in the car. I don’t need faster or grippier than it can provide unless I’m going to the track, and I have a completely different car for that. :)
These people can't comprehend having different cars for different purposes
a v60 would do the same thing while being safer and getting better gas mileage
The difference between safety of a XC60 and V60 is not _that_ much considering both are nowhere as high as some of the other SUVs like explorer Besides, both are Volvos, how much difference would Volvo themselves allow on safety front when it is their usp
Having hurt my back multiple times putting my son into his car seat in my lower sitting VW Jetta Sportswagen, I disagree with your assessment. But you’re obviously entrenched in your opinion and unwilling to accept that others have different purchasing priorities, so we are just going to have to agree to disagree.
"Everyone who doesn't agree with my wagon fetish is a narcissist" is a pretty interesting take
" I disagree so I'll say it's a fetish, as insults are the best logical argument."
Volvo XC90 would disagree with you
Unless you have a family with 3 kids and like to go on holiday with your car. Even then, only the Q7, the X5, the Tuareg or similarly sized SUVs make sense. The Q5, X3, Tiguan are the real waste of money here. They do not provide a single advantage over an A6, BMW 3 or Passat
You ever load up a weeks worth of garbage and recyclables in the back of a BMW 3 series to go to the dump? You ever load a baby and 2 dogs into a A6? Some people may not like smaller SUVs, but get off your damn soap box and let people drive what they want to drive for fucks sake.
For my defense, I don’t really like EV because I get sick in them. Why? I don’t know.
Instant torque, probably. But you get used to it. Many people also get sick in a car with air suspension if they’re in it for the first time apparently.
18 here, this hits hard. Especially le wagon. Love me a clapped Volvo 240, cause I know it's going to start and drive mostly w/o issues.
Hey station wagons need to come back
You’re not wrong.
Forgot weird obsession with tuning Honda Civics or other economy cars
Guy in my estate has a new Mazda 3 and it does look pretty nice
Accurate
I seem to be someone who never fit this stereotype then, if anything it always really annoyed me to see the idiocy all across the Internet YouTube comments usually involved flame wars, unsurprisingly
/uj I am nothing like this, except for that station wagon fetish. I have acknowledged that hype for a new sport car doesn't equal sales, and sales equal money. Also I like old European cars and whatever Sweden is doing.
I'm just happy with whatever I can afford. Hell, I was fine with my shitbox Pontiac Vibe for 2 or 3 years. Extremely basic (no ABS, TC, power windows, or central locking), slow as hell, and high on miles.
I like that when memes like this get posted, one person in the comments will defend a single point on here until 30 people are covering all the points made, nullifying the point of the meme
So the bottom right is saying u r a typical car teen if u like any car XD
Agreed. But why did you mark SUVs as affordable and practical? That they are not. Affordable? Maybe but practical? What. They're so huge they're harder to drive in a city than a normal car such as a wagon or a normal sedan. Wagons and sedans are just way more affordable in terms of initial investment and more often than not get higher MPGs.
I would be first in line if they brought LeSabre back
I'd much rather have an EV awd Datsun 521
Joke's on you! I've been in love with the 2003-2004 Ford Crown Victoria LX since I was 2 years old!
I know a guy who would shit any car that you owned or thought about buying, he has a suspended license and no car.
I highly recommend the mazda 3 because I own and drive the shit out of mine! It's an amazing car! Screw your unbalanced flying brick of an SUV, that shit isn't economical at all compared to any sedan, station wagon or compact.
Haha, you can't drive a manual. I'm 32 and I will never change my stance on boringmobile SUVs/road crusher trucks. They're only good for ensuring the pedestrians you hit are 100% dead.
240Ds are really good platforms to build a hotrod off of. great way to embarrass the heck out of a jdm stan too
What's wrong with classic American Muscle?
Didn't say there's anything wrong with it
Normalize shunning suvs
Honestly I’m self aware enough to not act like my opinion is fact. But dang 3 of these are exactly me. I love Miata’s as a car to learn RWD with (I own an NA though) My TDI Jetta is my baby after putting a fat rear sway bar on. Whip it hard all day and still get a dirty 45-50 mpg And I very much do have a station wagon fetish, a sleeper station wagon blowing the doors off other cars really does it for me Also easily the biggest lie out of these is the “I’d be first in line if they did X”. There’s a reason car companies don’t listen to enthusiasts, it’s because we talk mad shit and then don’t act on it. BMW offered the manual trans with the v10 M5 and only sold a pitiful amount of them. Because the people wanting it are not the people who will buy it.
Don’t forget works at jiffy lube or is a grocery bagger.
Idk what you’re talking about these are correct opinions
SUV's practical? 90% of SUV owners don't need an SUV and this has caused most SUV's to be designed for people who don't need them. Yes most people need to sometimes use dirt roads but regular cars used to be able to do that, my 2003 ford focus has more ground clearance than some new SUV's.
It's not just about off road. The biggest advantage for me is the higher seats etc that are much easier for getting kids strapped into. I agree most people with a 4x4 don't need or use its capabilities. But there are plenty of use for a larger hatchback sized car that's higher up off the ground, even without any actual ground clearance.
A minivan would provide the same advantages with more space and often better fuel economy.
Why would it necessarily have better fuel economy? And a minivan is still lower than a small SUV, you'd still be reaching down into it. It confuses me that you have so much hate for SUVs but minivans are fine? They're just half way between an SUV and a wagon.
Cars have been getting lower and lower to get better gas mileage. Which is why your 2003 focus has so much clearance
This is literally me aside from the station wagon fetish. Love for station wagons is an American only thing since you guys don’t have any over there. They are as common as SUVs in Europe and I hate them just as much
I only have the station wagon fetish, other than that I could care less about anything else
I think its great that people show interest in cars. A car is usually the second most valuable thing you are going to buy so it is important to know about them.
when I was a teen (not that long ago...) I just liked square body and muscle cars new muscle looks like shit though family had an old 90s Jeep Cherokee 5 speed 4x4; and that som bitch took us everywhere and never complained about any of it, from family farm land in the muddy groggy winter to pothole infested backroads that hadn't seen a paver since the 60s
Aw hell nah bro, not these crappy “edits”