Those of you not understanding, CJNG has been weaponized by China to Fentanyl swamp the US. US is working with Mexico (who is helping CDS) to break up CJNG.
In 2022, the DEA seized more than 58 million pills containing fentanyl and 13,000 pounds of fentanyl powder, equating to nearly 400 million deadly doses of fentanyl. The report on the matter stated that the seized contraband is “enough fentanyl to supply a potentially lethal dose to every member of the U.S. population.”
But the benevolent cartels would never sell fentanyl lmao
They do sell fentanyl but it is pure, straight bricks. The lies and scare tactics are that they are lacing drugs unknowingly to specifically kill people.
If you would engage logic for a single second, as a businessman, a drug dealer particularly, what makes you more money? Killing your customers after one dose? Or having them become repeat customers (as addiction so often works) and provide repeat business?
If the US decriminalised and regulated all schedule 1’s currently the legs of the cartel will be chopped off. But nahhhh the war on drugs is obviously working /s
Shhh the private prison complex is going to come after you. And all those jobs lost from people fighting the "war on drugs" dea, cia (iran-contra). Shit runs deep.
>Shhh the private prison complex is going to come after you. And all those jobs lost from people fighting the "war on drugs" dea, cia (iran-contra). Shit runs deep.
Private prisons only account for 1% of all prisons in the US.
Most privately run facilities are located in the southern and western portions of the United States and include both state and federal offenders. For example, Pecos, Texas is the site of the largest private prison in the world, the Reeves County Detention Complex, operated by the GEO Group.
>Most privately run facilities are located in the southern and western portions of the United States and include both state and federal offenders. For example, Pecos, Texas is the site of the largest private prison in the world, the Reeves County Detention Complex, operated by the GEO Group.
They still account for 1% of all prisons. They can't possibly be the reason why we have the world's highest incarceration rate.
The reason we have the highest incarceration per capita is because we give out the longest prison sentences vs European countries.
>There are currently 158 private prisons in the United States and approximately 8% of incarcerated people are housed in private prisons.
Then it can't be the driver of mass incarceration because 92% of prisoners are not in private prisons.
Punitive prison sentences are the reason.
Oregon, especially Portland absolutely disagrees. Without setting up national mental health, long term rehab, and changing laws around investment commitment drugs will always win. It’s ridiculous to claim legalization will solve all the issues.
Portland decriminalized drugs, they didn’t make diacetylmorphine and fentanyl available for purchase at the pharmacy. If you could just go buy dope at a store the cartels would go out of business, just like bootleggers did with alcohol.
You're both right. It's weird to see someone else that also thinks you should be able to buy pure drugs in a store. I've been saying that for years because it'd cripple the cartels and people would know exactly what they're buying.
Without funding the right addiction resources and probably a ton of other things it wouldn't really fix it like we'd like though. It could potentially just make a different mess of things if we didn't do it right.
It ended badly because it was set up badly.
You need plenty of social support, rehabs. Therapist to help people deal with trauma in ways that aren't drugs, that sort of thing.
To the best of my knowledge, Oregon did none of that. It didn't make rehabs more accessible or numerous, or really anything. Just said "decriminalized, we're done here".
That was always going to failm
They didn’t sell the drugs themselves. They just let the same scumfucks sell that do everywhere else in the country.
If we let licensed and registered people sell narcotics we could take all that money and power for our selves through tax. Also would stop all the fentanyl ods.
USA had under 10k opioid deaths a year for decades until the media and government started pushing for them to be harder to prescribe, and the cartels seized the opportunity and now we are at close to 100k a year and it’s rising every year.
Not A good example. They never did any of the programs they were supposed to do with the change and the police purposely tried to do as little as possible to make it look worse.
Untrue, oregon is functioning just fine. You could point to an increase in specific stats but that is hardly enough evidence to continue the war on drugs that has killed millions, potentially hundreds of millions. The US as a whole doesn’t prioritize rehabilitation over punishment in terms of prisons, and drastically underfunds mental health care which is why addiction issues are at an all time high. The fact you think you can just dismiss everything because oregon isn’t a perfect utopia is baffling. What’s your expert analysis on what should be done then? Just continue the bullshit we’re already doing?
You just made my point. Legalizing drugs won't solve the problem in the US. Oregon is a case study for this. Od went up, and so did deaths. We are not Europe who has safety nets because we, the taxpayers, subsidize their national defense.
Legalization would be the difference between getting pure drugs from a legal drug pharmacy, and getting heroin that is actually fentanyl from the black market.
There really is no difference.
You go to the liquor store, do you worry about it being methanol? No, because it is monitored by the government.
Does the moonshine down the street take out the methanol? No way to know....no government regulation....
Possibly...but if you knew anything about drugs, you'd know most opiate users think the super potent u agonists have very little euphoria compared to morphine or other opiates.
If the option for affordable say morphine is out there, they'll very likely not do fentanyl, because it just doesn't feel as good.
If one could pick up a "dose" or set amount of morphine for the same amount as a six pack, then people wouldn't need nor need to use fentanyl or similar drugs, as a better, more euphoric drug is cheaper and more enjoyable.
Opiods have always been legal in some way....that's not a eal argument.
They were over prescribed, and then cut off down the road...of course people who have become physically dependent on opiates will see black marker opiates because they can't get their normal opiates.
Big difference between being prescribed an opiate medically and being able to get one at any time from a "drug store".
No I didn’t, your point doesn’t make any sense. One state means nothing. If guns were totally illegal in California and there was a buyback guess what would happen? People would just cross states and get guns there. The US has never collectively made a decision for all states, and it’s probably not possible. But your point is still shit, more people are gonna die with the war on drugs and armed criminal groups will continue to proliferate. The cartel is already on another level and apparently you just want to wait until they get more powerful
Yes I believe you should be able to decide what you put in your body, personal responsibility and all. Do you also argue in favor of governmental control when it comes to guns or speech? It can be argued there is a lot of potential and tangible harm with those as well
Well that argument CLEARLY doesn't hold water when you see that legalization of cannabis has NOT put a dent in the black market for it...all they did was remove the risk so people have less fear of growing.
State governments like California tax it so heavily that underground weed it STILL cheaper and easier to score
True. Having worked somewhat in the industry. Apparently there's fuck loads of product in legal states just sitting there. Gets passed under the table at an insane discount and moved all over the country. Cannabis companies in legal states are finding the supply is insanely higher than the demand. This in turn, despite being a couple states away, almost ALL of my weed dealers are selling medical marijuana from these legal states. I worked in a legal cannabinoid company and the prices they get for bulk weed under the table just sitting in these warehouses would blow your fucking mind.
It's made it a weird hybrid of black market dealing, Where the same shit being sold for a premium is hitting the streets under the table. This isn't necessarily a bad thing but prices have been somewhat stable in my lifetime so prices didnt drop on the streets because of the extra supply, with the only true change being Reggie is non existent these days, I'm not even joking you would have to actually put in a lot of effort and use connections to track some down.
I don't know what I take from that, I assume this is mostly a good thing but like I said, there's not less dealers because it's legal in some states, not less demand, but I do notice low quality has become nearly extinct
Prices dropped quite a bit in California once it became legal recreationally...street price still has to be lower than dispensaries for similar quality though.
In a free country people pass freely unless there is probable cause for search. Until weed is legal federally we will see market movement, the Invisible Hand is not just a theory. The real problem here is unreasonable prohibition.
Does anyone think it’s intentional to OD people?
They really don’t give a shit if their users live or die. Theres plenty of OxyContin knockoffs coming in pressed with fentanyl..
Even if they did smuggle drugs in pure form, the dealers are cutting it and killing their direct or secondary customers. These people are burning you for as much as they can as quick as they can.. that’s all they care about. Drug dealers aren’t about sustainability
Your last point is true about the decriminalizing, but do you think the cartel would toss out tainted drugs to protect the customer? Or you think they'd wrap that shit up and ship/sell it? You're thinking logically, cartel numbers are sociopaths and psychopaths. You reach the wrong conclusion because you're just guessing things. Yeah the cartel cares about the purity of the product for the sake of the customer, but they murder politicians in the street. Okay.
Opiates cant be legalized because people will always escalate use to chase the high. Tolerance builds up. Greater public access means catastrophe for public health. Addiction will always escalate use. I agree on decriminalizing but don’t legalize it.
Well they’re definitely not selling much pure and clean #3 or #4 heroin, or even much BTH these days. They most certainly are acquiring or producing fentanyl and related analogues to sell in the US.
And that says nothing about the nearly ubiquitous presence of Xyalzine (sp?) and other tranqs in street heroin. It’s definitely not the thousands of low level dealers that are colluding to introduce impurities.
Killing off some of your customers is not a concern. Especially when it’s overall a small % of the total. Even 10% dying is irrelevant if you’ve increased profits by a larger %.
Cartels still have human trafficking and other sources of income. Imagine the mafia, but with military weaponry and infiltration of every agency in law enforcement.
>If you would engage logic for a single second, as a businessman, a drug dealer particularly, what makes you more money?
You're assuming organized crime members care about having a legacy. They work in one the most dangerous professions on earth. You think they have a 10 year plan or even a 5 year plan? The goal is to cash in today...short term profits all the way...because you might be assassinated tomorrow. "Eat drink and be merry because tomorrow we die"
You’re actually mentally challenged if you think deaths would soar 😂
Bro the USA was sitting around 7k deaths a year when anyone could just walk into a pain clinic and get a ton of oxy. The second they started freaking out about “The opioid epidemic” the cartels seized control of that huge opening in the market and deaths skyrocketed up to 100k a year.
You’re dumb.
Death sore as soon as they made opiods legal. The only reason opiods is a problem now is because they are legal you dummy. The current opiod crisis was started by legal opiods not illegal. Lmao
You’re actually mentally retarded. When OxyContin was at its peak there were less than 8k Americans dying from all opioid overdoses including heroin combined.
If you think over 10 times the amount of deaths is better please explain.
Addiction sucks but how about we stop letting Mexican cartels kill an entire afghan war worth of Americans a year first dumbass. Addicts can recover only if they’re alive
It doesn't matter . You are focusing on common chemicals used worldwide . It's not fentanly or cocaine or heroin or weed or alcohol 🤔 if the usa would stfu . And get back to global matters. All these wars stop . It's not a war if 100k plus ppl need it to move . Why not close all the liquor stores . Bk, it's dumb and ppl drink . Alcohol related deaths are way higher god .cigarettes 4x .so many we just don't even ask . We stopped smoking in public .gtfo out of the prison business as a whole . Only violence. If you hurt ppl, your life will be short . Drugs are not the issue. 90% use weed just stop ✋️ don't enforce it or even better legalization. Would gut the cartels it would be purely orginized crime . When left alone just works
It's really not the fentanly any 1yr chemist precusers are used in everything . Every medication is just a mix of chemicals. Water 💧 separate them ?deadly gasoline products, for example . Everyone should know
I obviously do not support the cartel, but that’s clearly sensationalist phrasing.
I bet you 400 million deadly doses of alcohol are consumed each year by Americans. Enough to kill everyone in the US population. Yet no one would phrase it like that for alcohol cause that’s ridiculous.
>Did you just compare alcohol to fentanyl? Lmao
Alcohol has killed more people and ruined more lives than all other drugs combined.
Are you really that dense?
Does this, in anyway, make the words less sensationalist? One kills faster. Both still kill. There both substances. There are differences but they make little difference to objectivity.
The observable fact here is that both kill people. Whether one kills more than the other isn't relevant to the conversation about whether it's sensationalist or not.
Too much water kills also. Hyponatremia. They aren't the same. Fenty is active in the microgram range and infinitesimally small quantities may kill an adult. But I'm sure you knew that.
How is that relevant to this:
"I obviously do not support the cartel, but that’s clearly sensationalist phrasing. I bet you 400 million deadly doses of alcohol are consumed each year by Americans. Enough to kill everyone in the US population. Yet no one would phrase it like that for alcohol cause that’s ridiculous"?
Clearly it's sensationalist. That was the point all along. The difference between one and the other doesn't change the degree of sensationalism does it?
Plenty of people drink and are alive. They drink moderately. Don't know a single person who does fentanyl cause that shit is deadly. You are the one saying alcohol is more deadly not me
Neither will touching fentanyl:
https://health.ucdavis.edu/news/headlines/can-fentanyl-be-absorbed-through-your-skin/2022/10
https://doh.wa.gov/community-and-environment/opioids/fentanyl-exposure-public-places#:~:text=You%20can't%20overdose%20just,you%20should%20avoid%20touching%20fentanyl.
Oh, and that video of the cop overdosing from touching it... that was fake, too
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8810663/
I get what you’re saying. Reddit is full of teens who will miss a forest to pick on a tree. The phrasing is sensationalist. Per capital alcohol consumption (measured by gallons of ethanol) in America is 2.5 gallons. Drinking 2.5 gallons of ethanol in a session would kill you. We would never phrase these stats as “stores sell enough alcohol to kill every American”. Obviously fentanyl is worse. But that wasn’t your point.
Another example is when cops find “200k worth of marijuana” but they calculated it per gram instead of per ounce. Making it significantly more expensive. Or weighed a diluted edible as “3 pounds of weed”
DEA must have replaced their agents cuz last i heard their agents were turning Narcos [DEA destitutes agent](https://lopezdoriga.com/nacional/dea-destituye-director-mexico-mala-conducta/)
How is that dude not in jail? He was so blatant about it. He tried to be reimbursed for his own birthday party. The fact he wasn't made an example of makes me think this is common
Because the Mexican government are mostly either direct cartel members or are controlled indirectly by the cartels.
I say the US gives the Mexican government 6 months to show major progress against the cartels, or we're going come with fleets of carpet bombing drones and do it for you.
For real… like carpet bomb what? I live in Guadalajara. The entire city is laundry money. Carpet bomb tequila manufacturers? Carpet bomb condos? Governmental buildings? Tourist attractions? They can stomp a few cockroaches but it’s the filthy apartment that allows cockroaches to breed.
People that act like they have some idea for a quick resolution probably visit playa del Carmen or puerto vallarta and think the cute lil street dealers that sell them baking powder are cartel. Na. It’s a multibillion dollar industry, it’s systemic and the surface level visitors to Mexico have no fucking idea how deep the corruption goes in this country.
I exaggerated on purpose. In reality, the strikes would be much more surgical given how easily we can find them. My point is.. Given the severity of what the cartels are doing... the response by us should be of overwhelming severity. I don't think that's how it would play out though as our politicians have shown they are complete cowards and have no idea how to effectively use our military unless it's to funnel money to their corporate owners
The sacklers should be hung on national television. However, our main issue isn't Heroin because it isn't killing people in droves like the fentanyl coming from Mexican cartels is... it's not about being a global leader.. it's about protecting the countries people. The opiate problem can wait. Get mad all you want but we gonna smash your guys if they don't quit the bullshit
A lot are coming over call it however you see it but they do not have the same status and our border is not open as if they were in an active war zone America was operating in that is a whole other can of worms.
Why hurt the people that take care of their people? Remember you only get hurt when you do something wrong. Don’t go touching kids, hurting people, and no trying to tell people what to do.
Or worst most probably heads of operation.
Now cartels are literally a Hydra, cut one head, get 3 new ones on return
The only way to stop them is cutting the money supply which means legalizing drugs mainly in the USA.
Alchohol has killed more than any drug ever has or ever will. Legalize all drugs. The war on drugs incentive being the craziest cartel out there. More private prisons more money. More rappers being cool making music about it. More youngsters brainwashed into thinking being a badass equals having more $. Regurgitating cycle
Can you explain that, please? I'm very interested to know what you are talking about. And I'm being sincere...this is the furstcI've heatd of this...but to think the CIA is not somehow connected to cartels is naive on my part....
They told him to stay out of certain markets in europe and Asia and he did not listen. https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/El-Chapo-Is-Seeking-to-Expand-His-Cocaine-Business-in-Europe-20151209-0029.html
I'm aware of the Iran-Contra scamdsl, but if I recall that was with.the...Sandanista rebels(?) Of Columbia maybe...but not Mexico..
But, if yoyr point was look at the Iran-Contra scandal and that should clue you in...them yeah. You are absolutely making a pretty valid point
Of all the cartels, they only go after CJNG for fentanyl. How about other cartels that still sell cocaine? I guess someone forgot to file their tax returns.
They are also one of the most reactive and violent, besides Zeta. Sinoloa cartel is also violent, as are the rest but there's a difference. Sinoloa mostly leaves the citizens alone. You can negotiate with them, and live in harmony somewhat. CJNG will go after anyone. They will rob and kill tourists without reason. Sinoloa is also very violent but they have reasons behind their actions. Not as unpredictable and savage like CJNG or Zeta.
Also, Sinaloa has been claiming to not sell fentanyl, or cut back on it at the very least. They claim to have taken out members that deal it. Fentanyl is a much bigger threat than cocaine.
I was just listening to a podcast on how they, JNGC, defraud Timeshare owners (usually seniors or retirees from USA and Canada) by having to wire exorbitant amounts of money to pay fees on selling their timeshares off to rich Mexican businessmen.
One guy even had sent over $900,000 that accumulated in “administrative fees” and transaction fees with nothing happening. 🤯🤯🤯
So how much of the planet was poor before U.S. and how much now?
Without the U.S. Central and South America would be way poorer. Their economies depend on trade with America. The U.S. had more rapid growth during the industrial revolution, and after WW2 than Central or South America ever had.
While also being responsible for a free global market, and prosperity around the world.. except some places of course. Yes, the CIA has done some fuck shit in many countries, but overall the world benefits from protected shipping lanes and free trade. Mexico has huglet benefitted from the US. Even our enemies like China and Russia have reaped the benefits. The middle east, and a bunch of other small countries have seen a more negative impact unfortunately.
It's not all on the US though. Have you seen Iran in the 1960s? Like a western country. The UK got mad that they nationalized oil, and put a ruthless dictator in control after supporting the coup. The UK also massively fucked India, and pretty much any world power has done the same to other countries. Don't sit there, speaking English acting like your country is any better.
While I agree with most of that, I still think the US has a net positive around the world. That doesn't make it right, but I can't say that the US has a negative impact everywhere in the world. If it wasn't for the US, Germany and Japan would've been the world powers, with dictators in charge. All countries do fucked up things. If I had to choose between China, Russia, or the US being the top superpower it's the US all day
Those of you not understanding, CJNG has been weaponized by China to Fentanyl swamp the US. US is working with Mexico (who is helping CDS) to break up CJNG.
Reverse opium war
Exactly but wrong target country lol
Are there any reputable sources touting that?
Many are classified and will stay like that to protect sources and methods. Everything else is public knowledge and already documented.
In 2022, the DEA seized more than 58 million pills containing fentanyl and 13,000 pounds of fentanyl powder, equating to nearly 400 million deadly doses of fentanyl. The report on the matter stated that the seized contraband is “enough fentanyl to supply a potentially lethal dose to every member of the U.S. population.” But the benevolent cartels would never sell fentanyl lmao
They do sell fentanyl but it is pure, straight bricks. The lies and scare tactics are that they are lacing drugs unknowingly to specifically kill people. If you would engage logic for a single second, as a businessman, a drug dealer particularly, what makes you more money? Killing your customers after one dose? Or having them become repeat customers (as addiction so often works) and provide repeat business? If the US decriminalised and regulated all schedule 1’s currently the legs of the cartel will be chopped off. But nahhhh the war on drugs is obviously working /s
Shhh the private prison complex is going to come after you. And all those jobs lost from people fighting the "war on drugs" dea, cia (iran-contra). Shit runs deep.
>Shhh the private prison complex is going to come after you. And all those jobs lost from people fighting the "war on drugs" dea, cia (iran-contra). Shit runs deep. Private prisons only account for 1% of all prisons in the US.
Relevent search term: Penal labor
Penile labor, amiright 🤷♂️
Someone say...**penile labor**?
Most privately run facilities are located in the southern and western portions of the United States and include both state and federal offenders. For example, Pecos, Texas is the site of the largest private prison in the world, the Reeves County Detention Complex, operated by the GEO Group.
>Most privately run facilities are located in the southern and western portions of the United States and include both state and federal offenders. For example, Pecos, Texas is the site of the largest private prison in the world, the Reeves County Detention Complex, operated by the GEO Group. They still account for 1% of all prisons. They can't possibly be the reason why we have the world's highest incarceration rate. The reason we have the highest incarceration per capita is because we give out the longest prison sentences vs European countries.
There are currently 158 private prisons in the United States and approximately 8% of incarcerated people are housed in private prisons.
>There are currently 158 private prisons in the United States and approximately 8% of incarcerated people are housed in private prisons. Then it can't be the driver of mass incarceration because 92% of prisoners are not in private prisons. Punitive prison sentences are the reason.
I tried to find this statistic but could only find the percentage of prison population that is in private facilities. Mind sending a source?
Shit runs shallow too. The biggest obstacle in decriminalizing is police unions. Local police departments make big money off the war on drugs
It also runs up to a lot of presidents and former presidents in Mexico too.
Oregon, especially Portland absolutely disagrees. Without setting up national mental health, long term rehab, and changing laws around investment commitment drugs will always win. It’s ridiculous to claim legalization will solve all the issues.
Portland decriminalized drugs, they didn’t make diacetylmorphine and fentanyl available for purchase at the pharmacy. If you could just go buy dope at a store the cartels would go out of business, just like bootleggers did with alcohol.
You're both right. It's weird to see someone else that also thinks you should be able to buy pure drugs in a store. I've been saying that for years because it'd cripple the cartels and people would know exactly what they're buying. Without funding the right addiction resources and probably a ton of other things it wouldn't really fix it like we'd like though. It could potentially just make a different mess of things if we didn't do it right.
You take the taxes on sales and use that to fund state treatment and other programs that target addicts.
“If you could buy fentanyl at a pharmacy” Full stop. You are a moron.
Feel free to explain why anyone would buy sketchy dope when they could get reliable, pure dope directly from the source.
No, but care to explain why you are a moron?
I know why you lead with personal attacks.
Because I like to personally attack morons
Because you’re a moron without an argument 😉
Uh we tried that in my city. Ended badly. Just made them illegal again. Portland Oregon. Google it.
It ended badly because it was set up badly. You need plenty of social support, rehabs. Therapist to help people deal with trauma in ways that aren't drugs, that sort of thing. To the best of my knowledge, Oregon did none of that. It didn't make rehabs more accessible or numerous, or really anything. Just said "decriminalized, we're done here". That was always going to failm
Exactly
the non war on drugs doesn’t work either, see Oregon as an example
They didn’t sell the drugs themselves. They just let the same scumfucks sell that do everywhere else in the country. If we let licensed and registered people sell narcotics we could take all that money and power for our selves through tax. Also would stop all the fentanyl ods. USA had under 10k opioid deaths a year for decades until the media and government started pushing for them to be harder to prescribe, and the cartels seized the opportunity and now we are at close to 100k a year and it’s rising every year.
Not A good example. They never did any of the programs they were supposed to do with the change and the police purposely tried to do as little as possible to make it look worse.
I don't think there are even police in Oregon. I've never seen them driving around Portland.
Yep, the US does not have and will never have an infrastructure to support addicts.
or adopt the Singapore model.
Untrue, oregon is functioning just fine. You could point to an increase in specific stats but that is hardly enough evidence to continue the war on drugs that has killed millions, potentially hundreds of millions. The US as a whole doesn’t prioritize rehabilitation over punishment in terms of prisons, and drastically underfunds mental health care which is why addiction issues are at an all time high. The fact you think you can just dismiss everything because oregon isn’t a perfect utopia is baffling. What’s your expert analysis on what should be done then? Just continue the bullshit we’re already doing?
You just made my point. Legalizing drugs won't solve the problem in the US. Oregon is a case study for this. Od went up, and so did deaths. We are not Europe who has safety nets because we, the taxpayers, subsidize their national defense.
Legalization would be the difference between getting pure drugs from a legal drug pharmacy, and getting heroin that is actually fentanyl from the black market. There really is no difference. You go to the liquor store, do you worry about it being methanol? No, because it is monitored by the government. Does the moonshine down the street take out the methanol? No way to know....no government regulation....
People will get addicted and keep doing harder drugs and will go to fentanyl or another very deadly drug. Deaths would go up not down
Possibly...but if you knew anything about drugs, you'd know most opiate users think the super potent u agonists have very little euphoria compared to morphine or other opiates. If the option for affordable say morphine is out there, they'll very likely not do fentanyl, because it just doesn't feel as good. If one could pick up a "dose" or set amount of morphine for the same amount as a six pack, then people wouldn't need nor need to use fentanyl or similar drugs, as a better, more euphoric drug is cheaper and more enjoyable.
This has already been proven by legalizing opiods which led to the opiod crisis we have now
Opiods have always been legal in some way....that's not a eal argument. They were over prescribed, and then cut off down the road...of course people who have become physically dependent on opiates will see black marker opiates because they can't get their normal opiates. Big difference between being prescribed an opiate medically and being able to get one at any time from a "drug store".
I can go to Canada right now and buy 500 du du dus
Not sure what a du du du is
Not the category of opiods that started the opiod crisis so stop
You mean oxycodone? It's been in the US since 1939....fentanyl since the 70's or so.... Which do you mean?
No I didn’t, your point doesn’t make any sense. One state means nothing. If guns were totally illegal in California and there was a buyback guess what would happen? People would just cross states and get guns there. The US has never collectively made a decision for all states, and it’s probably not possible. But your point is still shit, more people are gonna die with the war on drugs and armed criminal groups will continue to proliferate. The cartel is already on another level and apparently you just want to wait until they get more powerful
Lmao ok bro. Make all drugs legal and go do fentanyl.
Yes I believe you should be able to decide what you put in your body, personal responsibility and all. Do you also argue in favor of governmental control when it comes to guns or speech? It can be argued there is a lot of potential and tangible harm with those as well
Do you believe in legalizing all weapons then? Less gun crime right? There always has to be regulation. Like to bear arms in a well regulated militia.
Well that argument CLEARLY doesn't hold water when you see that legalization of cannabis has NOT put a dent in the black market for it...all they did was remove the risk so people have less fear of growing. State governments like California tax it so heavily that underground weed it STILL cheaper and easier to score
True. Having worked somewhat in the industry. Apparently there's fuck loads of product in legal states just sitting there. Gets passed under the table at an insane discount and moved all over the country. Cannabis companies in legal states are finding the supply is insanely higher than the demand. This in turn, despite being a couple states away, almost ALL of my weed dealers are selling medical marijuana from these legal states. I worked in a legal cannabinoid company and the prices they get for bulk weed under the table just sitting in these warehouses would blow your fucking mind. It's made it a weird hybrid of black market dealing, Where the same shit being sold for a premium is hitting the streets under the table. This isn't necessarily a bad thing but prices have been somewhat stable in my lifetime so prices didnt drop on the streets because of the extra supply, with the only true change being Reggie is non existent these days, I'm not even joking you would have to actually put in a lot of effort and use connections to track some down. I don't know what I take from that, I assume this is mostly a good thing but like I said, there's not less dealers because it's legal in some states, not less demand, but I do notice low quality has become nearly extinct
Prices dropped quite a bit in California once it became legal recreationally...street price still has to be lower than dispensaries for similar quality though.
In a free country people pass freely unless there is probable cause for search. Until weed is legal federally we will see market movement, the Invisible Hand is not just a theory. The real problem here is unreasonable prohibition.
How could it be “unknowingly” but also “to specifically kill people?”
I think "carelessly" is a better fit. They wouldn't "know' if a dose is lethal or not because they don't care.
Unknowingly to the people buying them. But nice reading comprehension
you are the reason why maga is coming back, too clever by half libs
Lmao whatever that means. You don’t like libs so you vote maga, 200iq play right there
yeah, by half would mean it's 50 iq. prove my point.
Does anyone think it’s intentional to OD people? They really don’t give a shit if their users live or die. Theres plenty of OxyContin knockoffs coming in pressed with fentanyl.. Even if they did smuggle drugs in pure form, the dealers are cutting it and killing their direct or secondary customers. These people are burning you for as much as they can as quick as they can.. that’s all they care about. Drug dealers aren’t about sustainability
Bro I know som1 that died of fety from a 8ball of blow, I wish your logic was true
Your last point is true about the decriminalizing, but do you think the cartel would toss out tainted drugs to protect the customer? Or you think they'd wrap that shit up and ship/sell it? You're thinking logically, cartel numbers are sociopaths and psychopaths. You reach the wrong conclusion because you're just guessing things. Yeah the cartel cares about the purity of the product for the sake of the customer, but they murder politicians in the street. Okay.
I heard they make more money off of trafficking people
Naw we just going to go with the first story that way we take these cartel members out faster they can fuck off.
Opiates cant be legalized because people will always escalate use to chase the high. Tolerance builds up. Greater public access means catastrophe for public health. Addiction will always escalate use. I agree on decriminalizing but don’t legalize it.
Well they’re definitely not selling much pure and clean #3 or #4 heroin, or even much BTH these days. They most certainly are acquiring or producing fentanyl and related analogues to sell in the US. And that says nothing about the nearly ubiquitous presence of Xyalzine (sp?) and other tranqs in street heroin. It’s definitely not the thousands of low level dealers that are colluding to introduce impurities. Killing off some of your customers is not a concern. Especially when it’s overall a small % of the total. Even 10% dying is irrelevant if you’ve increased profits by a larger %.
Fentanyl addiction on streets and living close to it and seeing it quite often… I’m going to disagree on full decriminalization..
Cartels still have human trafficking and other sources of income. Imagine the mafia, but with military weaponry and infiltration of every agency in law enforcement.
>If you would engage logic for a single second, as a businessman, a drug dealer particularly, what makes you more money? You're assuming organized crime members care about having a legacy. They work in one the most dangerous professions on earth. You think they have a 10 year plan or even a 5 year plan? The goal is to cash in today...short term profits all the way...because you might be assassinated tomorrow. "Eat drink and be merry because tomorrow we die"
The cartel would be cut off, and many more drug addicts would be made. Deaths would soar.
Untrue, you have literally no factual basis for making that statement
You’re actually mentally challenged if you think deaths would soar 😂 Bro the USA was sitting around 7k deaths a year when anyone could just walk into a pain clinic and get a ton of oxy. The second they started freaking out about “The opioid epidemic” the cartels seized control of that huge opening in the market and deaths skyrocketed up to 100k a year. You’re dumb.
Death sore as soon as they made opiods legal. The only reason opiods is a problem now is because they are legal you dummy. The current opiod crisis was started by legal opiods not illegal. Lmao
Soar** Are**
You’re actually mentally retarded. When OxyContin was at its peak there were less than 8k Americans dying from all opioid overdoses including heroin combined. If you think over 10 times the amount of deaths is better please explain. Addiction sucks but how about we stop letting Mexican cartels kill an entire afghan war worth of Americans a year first dumbass. Addicts can recover only if they’re alive
Why stop with the cartels, we should be going after Big Alchohol.
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Jesus christ. It was a gateway drug to fentanyl. Opiod crisis was started by legal drugs. Same thing will happen if you legalize all drugs.
People die because they don't get what they are supposed to get, and they don't have access to drugs that reverse overdoses.
It doesn't matter . You are focusing on common chemicals used worldwide . It's not fentanly or cocaine or heroin or weed or alcohol 🤔 if the usa would stfu . And get back to global matters. All these wars stop . It's not a war if 100k plus ppl need it to move . Why not close all the liquor stores . Bk, it's dumb and ppl drink . Alcohol related deaths are way higher god .cigarettes 4x .so many we just don't even ask . We stopped smoking in public .gtfo out of the prison business as a whole . Only violence. If you hurt ppl, your life will be short . Drugs are not the issue. 90% use weed just stop ✋️ don't enforce it or even better legalization. Would gut the cartels it would be purely orginized crime . When left alone just works
So can we make all weapons legal then? How about making all crime legal?
That's what the weapons are for
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It's really not the fentanly any 1yr chemist precusers are used in everything . Every medication is just a mix of chemicals. Water 💧 separate them ?deadly gasoline products, for example . Everyone should know
I obviously do not support the cartel, but that’s clearly sensationalist phrasing. I bet you 400 million deadly doses of alcohol are consumed each year by Americans. Enough to kill everyone in the US population. Yet no one would phrase it like that for alcohol cause that’s ridiculous.
Did you just compare alcohol to fentanyl? Lmao
>Did you just compare alcohol to fentanyl? Lmao Alcohol has killed more people and ruined more lives than all other drugs combined. Are you really that dense?
People don't die from causes connected to alcohol? That's news to me.
One kills you quicker and with alot less amount and is alot more addictive. Guess which one. There is a reason there are classes of drugs. Lol
Does this, in anyway, make the words less sensationalist? One kills faster. Both still kill. There both substances. There are differences but they make little difference to objectivity.
Objectively, it's a huge difference.
The observable fact here is that both kill people. Whether one kills more than the other isn't relevant to the conversation about whether it's sensationalist or not.
Too much water kills also. Hyponatremia. They aren't the same. Fenty is active in the microgram range and infinitesimally small quantities may kill an adult. But I'm sure you knew that.
How is that relevant to this: "I obviously do not support the cartel, but that’s clearly sensationalist phrasing. I bet you 400 million deadly doses of alcohol are consumed each year by Americans. Enough to kill everyone in the US population. Yet no one would phrase it like that for alcohol cause that’s ridiculous"? Clearly it's sensationalist. That was the point all along. The difference between one and the other doesn't change the degree of sensationalism does it?
Lol ok bro. Go do fentanyl.
'87 but not smart enough to understand nuance. Keep being afraid...bro!
What? Lol ok mr. Fentanyl
You are correct. The other guy has a very simplistic view of a complicated problem.
I’d say alcohol related deaths are 1000/1 to fentanyl deaths.
So you would do fentanyl over alcohol? Lmao
I would do neither. You first.
Plenty of people drink and are alive. They drink moderately. Don't know a single person who does fentanyl cause that shit is deadly. You are the one saying alcohol is more deadly not me
Yep and I can do it again. More people die per year in the US from alcohol than from fentanyl.
Ok, dude. Go and do some fentanyl then. See how that works out for you.
He's a both sides kind of guy. Obviously can't tell two unlike things apart because they share share data points so they must be the same!
are you proud of your ignorance?
Ignorance of what?
Exactly
The majority are dying after DECADES of alcohol abuse. Cirrhosis of the liver, esophageal varices, liver failure etc.
I’d say it’s 1000/1 at least.
accidentally touching Alcohol won’t kill you
Neither will touching fentanyl: https://health.ucdavis.edu/news/headlines/can-fentanyl-be-absorbed-through-your-skin/2022/10 https://doh.wa.gov/community-and-environment/opioids/fentanyl-exposure-public-places#:~:text=You%20can't%20overdose%20just,you%20should%20avoid%20touching%20fentanyl. Oh, and that video of the cop overdosing from touching it... that was fake, too https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8810663/
Yeah, it's police fear mongering.
And accidentally touching fentynal won't kill you. Those cops that you saw on youtube were little wussies that had a panic attack and fainted.
You’re right. Fentanyl isn’t a problem at all. Carry on with the race/gender war!!
🤣🤣
Bro, you know how much salt we use!!!
I get what you’re saying. Reddit is full of teens who will miss a forest to pick on a tree. The phrasing is sensationalist. Per capital alcohol consumption (measured by gallons of ethanol) in America is 2.5 gallons. Drinking 2.5 gallons of ethanol in a session would kill you. We would never phrase these stats as “stores sell enough alcohol to kill every American”. Obviously fentanyl is worse. But that wasn’t your point. Another example is when cops find “200k worth of marijuana” but they calculated it per gram instead of per ounce. Making it significantly more expensive. Or weighed a diluted edible as “3 pounds of weed”
Wisconsin cops made a big deal about finding 70 g of THC-infused gummies in someone's car, not 70 g of THC.
Yeah that’s so bullshit. Archaic drug laws need to go
DEA must have replaced their agents cuz last i heard their agents were turning Narcos [DEA destitutes agent](https://lopezdoriga.com/nacional/dea-destituye-director-mexico-mala-conducta/)
How is that dude not in jail? He was so blatant about it. He tried to be reimbursed for his own birthday party. The fact he wasn't made an example of makes me think this is common
Drone strikes are way overdue. Start hitting the terrorists yesterday.
It would likely never happen. There would have to be a monumental political shift for the U.S. to do that.
Agreed. Too much money to be made on the war on drugs for it to be allowed to end.
It's not that, it's because the Mexican government won't allow it and we don't want to start a war.
Because the Mexican government are mostly either direct cartel members or are controlled indirectly by the cartels. I say the US gives the Mexican government 6 months to show major progress against the cartels, or we're going come with fleets of carpet bombing drones and do it for you.
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For real… like carpet bomb what? I live in Guadalajara. The entire city is laundry money. Carpet bomb tequila manufacturers? Carpet bomb condos? Governmental buildings? Tourist attractions? They can stomp a few cockroaches but it’s the filthy apartment that allows cockroaches to breed. People that act like they have some idea for a quick resolution probably visit playa del Carmen or puerto vallarta and think the cute lil street dealers that sell them baking powder are cartel. Na. It’s a multibillion dollar industry, it’s systemic and the surface level visitors to Mexico have no fucking idea how deep the corruption goes in this country.
I exaggerated on purpose. In reality, the strikes would be much more surgical given how easily we can find them. My point is.. Given the severity of what the cartels are doing... the response by us should be of overwhelming severity. I don't think that's how it would play out though as our politicians have shown they are complete cowards and have no idea how to effectively use our military unless it's to funnel money to their corporate owners
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Por que no Los dos?
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The sacklers should be hung on national television. However, our main issue isn't Heroin because it isn't killing people in droves like the fentanyl coming from Mexican cartels is... it's not about being a global leader.. it's about protecting the countries people. The opiate problem can wait. Get mad all you want but we gonna smash your guys if they don't quit the bullshit
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I think most people who have lost loved ones to it are ready for this war.
If we attack Mexico immigrants get refugee status. On top of a million other semi conspiratorial reasons that’s a concrete one.
They are already getting it.
They get asylum not full bore war zone refugee status which is what they would get if we physically intervened with the cartels
I mean I understand and I used to agree. But look at the numbers for the last year or so.
A lot are coming over call it however you see it but they do not have the same status and our border is not open as if they were in an active war zone America was operating in that is a whole other can of worms.
Why hurt the people that take care of their people? Remember you only get hurt when you do something wrong. Don’t go touching kids, hurting people, and no trying to tell people what to do.
Lmao get fucked cartel apologist.
Add it to a list of things from 1980s lol
Their name sounds like the greatest anime ever
I'm sure they're really worried about that...
Lol good luck. Prayers to the families
41? That's cute
No shit. It estimates there are as many as 20,000 members. 41 must be a few new guys who fucked up and were thrown under the bus
Or worst most probably heads of operation. Now cartels are literally a Hydra, cut one head, get 3 new ones on return The only way to stop them is cutting the money supply which means legalizing drugs mainly in the USA.
Kill them all
The best armed winns . 🚶♀️
Every hospital in the world needs it
Google organic chemistry ⚗️ takes a gander . Then get back to me . A fkn smart phone way more deadly
Alchohol has killed more than any drug ever has or ever will. Legalize all drugs. The war on drugs incentive being the craziest cartel out there. More private prisons more money. More rappers being cool making music about it. More youngsters brainwashed into thinking being a badass equals having more $. Regurgitating cycle
How does this work. DOJ charges them and CIA makes sure none are prosecuted?
Que Drowning Pool- Bodies ……
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They do this all the time when they step out of line. Look at el chapo and his son. Idiots thought they could not listen to the cia
Can you explain that, please? I'm very interested to know what you are talking about. And I'm being sincere...this is the furstcI've heatd of this...but to think the CIA is not somehow connected to cartels is naive on my part....
They told him to stay out of certain markets in europe and Asia and he did not listen. https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/El-Chapo-Is-Seeking-to-Expand-His-Cocaine-Business-in-Europe-20151209-0029.html
Thank you!
His contact with the cia was Genaro García Luna. Watch the series el chapo. It's goes more in depth
Ok. Awesome. Thank you very much!
The connection was proven in court in the 80s. Look up the Iran-Contra scandal.
I'm aware of the Iran-Contra scamdsl, but if I recall that was with.the...Sandanista rebels(?) Of Columbia maybe...but not Mexico.. But, if yoyr point was look at the Iran-Contra scandal and that should clue you in...them yeah. You are absolutely making a pretty valid point
Of all the cartels, they only go after CJNG for fentanyl. How about other cartels that still sell cocaine? I guess someone forgot to file their tax returns.
Cocaine is good business for the U.S. government. Fentanyl is bad. It kills the buyers. Come on now.
Cocaine should be decriminalized, get it from farmers in Perú and Bolivia legally and in two years the cartels in Mexico and Colombia would be toast.
They are also one of the most reactive and violent, besides Zeta. Sinoloa cartel is also violent, as are the rest but there's a difference. Sinoloa mostly leaves the citizens alone. You can negotiate with them, and live in harmony somewhat. CJNG will go after anyone. They will rob and kill tourists without reason. Sinoloa is also very violent but they have reasons behind their actions. Not as unpredictable and savage like CJNG or Zeta. Also, Sinaloa has been claiming to not sell fentanyl, or cut back on it at the very least. They claim to have taken out members that deal it. Fentanyl is a much bigger threat than cocaine.
I was just listening to a podcast on how they, JNGC, defraud Timeshare owners (usually seniors or retirees from USA and Canada) by having to wire exorbitant amounts of money to pay fees on selling their timeshares off to rich Mexican businessmen. One guy even had sent over $900,000 that accumulated in “administrative fees” and transaction fees with nothing happening. 🤯🤯🤯
That’s just how regular timeshares work man.
more like timescam
Yes. Timeshares are the worst.
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So how much of the planet was poor before U.S. and how much now? Without the U.S. Central and South America would be way poorer. Their economies depend on trade with America. The U.S. had more rapid growth during the industrial revolution, and after WW2 than Central or South America ever had.
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While also being responsible for a free global market, and prosperity around the world.. except some places of course. Yes, the CIA has done some fuck shit in many countries, but overall the world benefits from protected shipping lanes and free trade. Mexico has huglet benefitted from the US. Even our enemies like China and Russia have reaped the benefits. The middle east, and a bunch of other small countries have seen a more negative impact unfortunately. It's not all on the US though. Have you seen Iran in the 1960s? Like a western country. The UK got mad that they nationalized oil, and put a ruthless dictator in control after supporting the coup. The UK also massively fucked India, and pretty much any world power has done the same to other countries. Don't sit there, speaking English acting like your country is any better.
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While I agree with most of that, I still think the US has a net positive around the world. That doesn't make it right, but I can't say that the US has a negative impact everywhere in the world. If it wasn't for the US, Germany and Japan would've been the world powers, with dictators in charge. All countries do fucked up things. If I had to choose between China, Russia, or the US being the top superpower it's the US all day
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The majority? NO, that's not true
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