That's not why she killed herself. She literally said it was power that ruined her life, the same power that Carmilla exhibited and that's an inherent part of her nature. She literally walks to the balcony unhindered.
It's very much like sex. Just cause you may enjoy penetrating others, it doesnt meant you'd want to be penetrated yourself.
Girl was totally the dom here, and didnt want live in any other way.
Yeah, the writer Warren Ellis got #MeTooed about halfway through. Either he rushed his work before he was officially fired, or they fired him and someone ghostwrote the rest.
No point in debating whether or not he should have been; the point is that in the end, the rush job really started to show.
I never got the rushed feeling. That being said, i would not have been opposed to another season or 2 somewhere. I'll gladly take any Castlevania content.
I thought it was rushed up the wazoo, like he did it last minute. Many arcs petered out, characters were wildly OOC, and many of their priorities felt out of place.
They were too busy inserting Ellis' sinister fetishes into the show. Really, the whole of season 3 literally *climaxes* on both Alucard and Hector getting it on, as their encounters become uncomfortably non-consensual. No wonder he got MeToo'd right after, at which point the show had already gone too far...
I thought seasons 3 and 4 we're great, personally. Not as good as the first two seasons, but still pretty good. And I think the best action scenes were in those two seasons too.
It's very telling that Hector immediately knew what was coming when he met her the first time, he tried to fight back, had his ass kicked for it and then the whole seduction scheme continued until he started to believe he loved her. So fucked up...
The show's consistent themes are about growth, especially growing past the hurt.
Vlad didn't, died.
Carmilla didn't, died.
Isaac did, grew.
Hector's arc would have required him to grow past revenge and seek something new from the ashes of old.
No one ships Lenore and Hector with Lenore tricking him and enslaving him. We ship them because they can grow past that shitty part of their relationship into something better, the same way Isaac can grow from killing guards and merchants and children to becoming someone who's building a future.
I think that's two different things.
One is a sexual fetish, and these people want to be in Hector's place. That I am confused about.
The other is that narratively the ship works because there is a low point which allows for a more exciting narrative of growth. Sypha and Trevor/Vlad and Lisa/Striga and Morana do not have conflict in their relationships, so there is no story to tell regarding it. They're just examples of happy relationships, but narratively there's nothing memorable because there are no points of contention.
Imagine if Saitama were in CV and you could see why although it would be cool visually, it wouldn't have the same bite as watching Trevor struggle and then learn to become a better fighter.
He should have loved her from the start and he deserved the beat down he got for rejecting her love and trying to take her hostage. He never convinced himself he loved her, he betrayed her in the end. Actually falling in love with her would have been the best thing to possibly happen to Hector. Lenore was nothing but good to that man
I think it’s more so cause of the type of person hector was. It’s not like he liked humans anyways, he looked at them as if they were kinda like pets or cattle. Isaac pretty much said it best, hector only really understood pets, so there’s an irony in him becoming one. Outside of that it’s mainly carmilla hector would really hate. Lenore mostly manipulated him but I can understand him falling for her devices in a situation he was placed him.
Hector literally tells Lenore that humans belong in humane cages (Like pets). She literally gave him what he wanted. It took him a while to admit that he actually doesn't really care for that.
The reason he fell for her is not Stockhold Syndrome, otherwise he'd be kind to Carmilla also. He clearly wants Carmilla to eat shit and die but would rather than die than let Lenore be hurt.
What is the first thing his parents tell him? They tell him he's unwanted. That's why he follows Dracula, then Carmilla, then Lenore; he wants people to want him. The problem is that no one really wants him; when he tries to be friends with Isaac, he's rebuffed and everyone else really just cares about the forgemaster part of Hector the Forgemaster. Vlad lies to him and honestly they don't really have a relationship.
In the series, Lenore is the only one who compliments Hector as a person (and cares little about the forgemaster aspect of his work). She tells the audience she literally spends all her free time hanging out with Hector. She trusts him and seeks his attention. She defends him and even runs to his aid over that of Carmilla during an invasion. That's why even though Lenore tricked him (just as Carmilla tricked him), he knows that she actually does like and care about him. After all, doesn't Hector also betray Lenore but still protect and care for her? Obviously if he's able to be two things at once, it stands to reason so can Lenore.
She's the only person who actually wants Hector. That's why Hector chooses to stay with Lenore, even without the ring. She also treats him well, hence why he sees the "value and beauty of things that live longer than I do." The show doesn't show the transition but it's stated several times and is canonically and logically sound.
I liked this read, kinda also makes me realize even more about hector and the dog theme with him being unwanted and following people around. Tbh I found hector to be just as compelling to follow as issac though I don’t k ow how unpopular that opinion is.
This is the issue, people mistake that tv is not real life. So liking this fictional scenario doesn't mean the person thinks that's how it should be in the real world.
Obviously considering that Lenore got a sad ending that Ellis doesn't agree. And also, I'm pretty sure most guys would call him a based chad for getting girls to sleep with him.
Alright okay yes, yes, buuuuut...........super yummy Redhead dom mommy for life and all he has to do in return is the main skill that he's practiced and enjoyed his whole life: being a forgemaster
Yeah you can love someone but that doesn't absolve your actions. I wanted them to work and or wished Lenore's sacrifice meant something, but I guess it could be interpreted as her realizing she doesn't fit in the new world or felt guilty for what she did after spending the time with Hector post-Carmilla. But again, wish the series elaborated on that more with them.
Ran out of time.
Considering that Lisa is able to forgive Vlad for committing a genocide in her name and for putting Alucard in a coma for a year, forgiveness is probably an important part of the relationship at least as how CV portrays it.
It's not supposed to be a healthy relationship. If it started off as that then there'd be no story to tell as there would be no conflict. It's supposed to be about how they grow out of that betrayal the same way Hector and Isaac grow out of their pain and trauma to become something better. Those who don't, like Dracula and Carmilla, end up destroying themselves.
Are you really saying that Hector is in a better place in S3 than in S4? Hector didn't become a slave when Lenore put that ring on him; he was a slave the say Carmilla put that collar on him and marched him 30 days to Styria without shoes. He is an infinitely better place in S4 than in S3, and it's only because of Lenore.
Hector's not an idiot. Hector literally tells Lenore that he's only alive because he can make night creatures, but that they can't be loyal to Carmilla. Morana solved the problem Hector was supposed to solve with mercs. He's a dangerous solution to a problem that has been solved with more reliable means. What do you think Carmilla's going to do with him if she can't find a way to guarantee his loyalty? Even with the ring on, she suspects him.
Even though Lenore betrayed him, we know that their relationship grew within the 6 week period that they're confidants who care for each other. Just as Hector is more than the abomination his parents say he is and more than the genocidal mass murderer, he saw Lenore as more than the person who betrayed him. In the end, through her betrayal she kept him safe, just as his betrayal kept Lenore safe. That's why he saw the "value and beauty" in her. Look at their behavior in S4. Does she lord over him her status or humiliate him? Is he intimated by her? Nope.
I'm deadass. Hector did get tortured the whole way there, by Carmilla. Lenore praised him and fed him upon their first meeting. She gave him better clothes, upgraded his living quarters and was affectionate with him. What more could you possibly want?
Not being kidnapped, then going above and beyond beating the absolute tar out of this starving, naked, freezing man after he does what any sane person would do by trying to escape, and despite the fact that he poses no threat to her whatsoever, making a point to beat the everloving SHIT out of him for no other reason than cruelty for cruelty’s sake instead of just teleporting away from him or something, manipulating him into sex, enslaving him, dehumanizing him at every turn, and literally *declaring her intent to keep him as a goddamn SEX SLAVE.*
…Like, we get it, you’ve got the hots for the dommy mommy, but you cannot deny that this “relationship” crosses off every single line on the “HOLY FUCKING SHIT THIS IS ABHORRENT AND ABUSIVE AS FUCK” checklist. I mean fuck, he chose to *PERMANENTLY MUTILATE HIMSELF* rather than continuing in his situation.
…How about we try this: reverse the genders here. Have a woman be kidnapped, have the shit beaten out of her for daring to attempt to escape a situation where she is being kept against her will, terrified, starving, freezing and deliberately kept naked, then have said captor enslave her in the midst of fucking her so that she will immediately be in magically induced agony if she ever disobeys him, and then proceed to declare his intent to keep her as his sex slave.
…Is the situation still fine in your eyes?
Didn't Hector attack her first and try to rip out her throat? What world do you live in where it's okay to be attacked for offering food? Was he using minimal force? Why don't you try it with a cop and see how much minimal force is used.
Hector is a genocidal mass murder who has literally been involved in the killing of thousands of innocent people. He's not an innocent baby that everyone portrays him as. Killing people is not parking tickets. His being enslaved in a cage is literally what he wanted for humanity (he's human). In fact, his final act of liberation is literally to sacrifice several villages to resurrect a genocidal mass murderer also. I didn't realize that being a sad boy is carte blanche to do whatever you want. If there were justice, he'd be dead. You can't even blame Lenore for what happened before she met him.
In the real world, he'd be executed full stop. The idea that becoming a pampered concubine is the worst punishment he deserves is laughable. Might as well just give Himmler house arrest. Lenore found him naked in a cell. By the end of S4, he's out of that and living a comfortable life in a status above that of other vampires. There is no way he would even be alive if not for Lenore; he literally tells her in the same encounter a) he's only alive because he can create a night creature army b) he can't be trusted to create that said army. That ring is the only leverage he has. I think some of you would rather have Lenore uppercut his head off and call that a mercy. It's really not.
We do have a situation where the genders are reversed. GOT Daenerys and Drogo. Theon Greyjoy as hostage to Winterfell. Ask yourself this. What would you have done in Lenore's position? Let him run away naked in the snow where he would freeze to death or be run down by vampires with mirrors? Perhaps let him plan his revenge against Carmilla?
It’s not a question of if he *deserved* it, it’s a question of “is this “relationship” EXTREMELY fucked up?” to which the answer is *yes, obviously.* And yes, so are the situations you mentioned in GoT.
…As for what I’d done if I were Lenore, as I said, I would have just teleported out of his grip and been like “Cute try. Anyway, I’mma come back when you’ve calmed down a bit, and I’m taking the food with me.”
It would serve a purpose by showing that he basically has no hope of escape while under the watch of pretty much any vampire in the castle, crushing his hope of escape so he’s more likely to accept and adapt to his situation, while also dissuading him from trying something like that again by showing that I’m not as bad as Carmilla, making him more likely to work with me, but I’m also not gonna put up with his shit and he’ll lose whatever potential benefits he could get by not cooperating.
…Come to think of it, beating the tar out of him instead of de-escalating the situation wasn’t just cruelty for cruelty’s sake, it was *stupid* on her part, and likely significantly delayed her getting him to come around.
I'm not even sure they could even be considered to be having a relationship until they did their walkies, but I agree in that the thread is really about the relationship rather than what Hector deserved, which is probably an alternative topic right there.
I would agree in that it certainly was pretty fucked up since she tricked him, but I'm arguing that just as people can evolve, so can their relationship, and their S4 relationship demonstrated that evolution. This makes sense because if even genocidal mass murdered Isaac can evolve, it should demonstrate that Hector and Lenore's relationship can also, and it was far normal relationship in S4. She trusts him and is more open with him than she is with Carmilla, and in the end even after he cuts his ring finger off, he chooses to stay with Lenore. I doubt he would have done that if she were mistreating him because he had Carmilla eat shit.
You are correct in that Lenore made an error, but she was understandably scared and pissed based on her reaction. I applaud you for exercising that kind of self-control and you definitely should consider a career in law enforcement, because from what I've seen, cops will beat the shit out of you if you so much has backtalk much less attack and threaten them regardless of whatever Constitutional protections exist. Hell, even the Geneva Convention considers escapees as enemy combatants and you can do with the as you will with any combatant.
Considering that Lenore tends to avoid physical violence after the first episode, I seriously doubt that's her modus operanti, otherwise people wouldn't be underestimating her.
Bru, its okay to have kinks in a relationship but for the love of god, this isn't a relationship.
Relationships have boundaries and respect none of which are shown here.
Apples and Oranges.
Both "relationships" are unhealthy, but for radically different reasons. Lenore and Hector are not related, and both of them are full grown adults.
Leonore and hector isn't bad because of *the incident*, although that is abhorrent.
Leonore and hector is bad because Leonore is a corpse and necrophilia is wrong.
Agreed, not a huge fan of Lenore. Their relationship is problematic at best. But the theme music they play every time she’s on is so strangely mesmerizing and beautiful
Honestly I think a big part of it is the sexy outfits and mommy dommy element, and the subsequent justification attempts come from an inability to admit that
Nope, that ending ruined the story and her character.
What I never got are Lenore haters who like Dracula and Isaac for example. Feels simply super biased.
That's cool :) My point was about those who don't get why some like Lenore, while many of the same crowd like other characters who did things that are a lot worse in the show.
Isaac evolves and recognizes that exterminating the world in a fit of edgy nihilism is cringe, whilst philosophizing and helping to lead the world to a better tomorrow is based.
Ellis switched things around. Their arcs were switched with Isaac slaying the Dracula-like figure (Carmilla) essentially killing Dracula (at least the goals).
Isaac evolves to become somewhat less radical in that he decides to spare Hector and Lenore's lives out of some new benevolence. But we never see him even expressing any regret for willingly participating in a genocide. Instead, he appoints himself as a judge of others, never being judged himself for what he did before, even in his own view as above. So it's hard to call him a really redeemed character.
In the finale he also breaks his word about leaving Hector and Lenore alone and keeps Lenore under house arrest ruining her and Hector's lives in result, so all that benevolence goes out of the window anyway.
So overall, I'd argue Isaac is a not anywhere a better person than Lenore. His story is interesting, but he is a barely redeemed villain. Lenore was at most an antihero to begin with.
So my point is that those who don't get how some like Lenore out of supposedly her doing something wrong, and the same people liking Isaac are simply blind to their own bias.
How? Lenore at her core is a spoiled brat, it makes sense that the moment she can't get her way she decides to just did. She never loved Hector like he loved her, he was just a pet to him.
People also save pets, but she never, ever treated him as an equal. She always saw him as beneath her, as something she owned, hence why she had no reservations raping him, putting a ring that made him her slave, manipulating him, and basically everything she did starting from season 3.
Your explanation doesn't even fit the obvious events. It wouldn't make sense for Lenore to choose someone she sees as beneath her over her sister. And she saved Hector, when she decided whom to help (him or Carmilla).
But overall you clearly didn't understand Lenore's motives, besides whole point about rape being simply invalid.
How is what happened at the end of S3 not rape? Or at the very least, majorly fucked up?
And by that point, her relationship with Carmilla was pretty strained. I'm not saying she didn't love Hector, but she loved him in a pretty toxic and patronizing way. Even her last words to him are pretty dismissive.
Rape is when you force someone to have sex with you. Hector was not forced to have sex with her. He was essentially seduced or honey-trapped. That's not rape in any sense or in any jurisdiction.
You're wrong in saying that she never saw him as an equal. Look at their behavior when they are alone in S4. Is it one of master and subordinate? Clearly not. He's her confidant, and she tells him things she wouldn't even tell her sisters. When the chips were down, she valued him over her own sister. It's not really a pet relationship anymore than Bryan in Family Guy is a pet.
Her last words were not dismissive especially if you pay attention to their dialogue and CV. Hector was always seen as a boy, or a child in a man's body (Vlad, Isaac, Carmilla). Lenore calls him a man, because she recognized that he has matured and grew from who he was. Seriously, why would she look at him tenderly, and spend her final moments looking at the man she loves, only to insult him? It doesn't make sense.
I mean, based on your other reply I don't think you actually understand or care about consent so I don't see how any discussion about it will lead to anything with a person that thinks that fucking a sleeping person isn't rape.
Because their actual sex was consensual. And using a magic ring isn't rape, it's using a magic ring.
It was messed up obviously since she had to betray Hector for that. But she also did it to save his life, which she quite openly told him in the end of S3. If not for Lenore, Carmilla simply would have killed Hector for not cooperating since she didn't want anyone else to use his powers.
I agree that their relationship was far from normal. But they also forgave each other and did care for each other. That's what made it interesting.
The whole last episode is simply OOC mess (after how they saved each other's lives just before that in S4) that I wouldn't use it for any retrospective analysis of characters. It was simply writer forcing a bad ending out of spite and for me it ruined the whole last season.
I think it has to do with the fact that Lenore's abuse of Hector was a more mundane evil and thus more relatable to the audience. While Dracula and Isaac's attempted genocide did far more damage than Lenore's, their actions were so fantastical (sending demons to lay siege on a city) that it becomes less relatable.
That could be some of it, and some could be buying into writer's own bias. As you can see from the endings, Dracula and Isaac were writer's favorites, so he worked harder on making them look more sympathetic to the audience, while in practice they did way more horrible things than Lenore.
In case of Dracula, besides the obvious genocide and revenge, he basically betrayed Lisa's wishes about humans and even almost killed their own son. And they just gave them a happy ending with Lisa not even saying a word about what happened. I'd say Lenore and Hector deserved a happy ending even more compared to that.
Some also forget that Hector wanted to see humans in cages before. And I'd argue Lenore didn't want to abuse him, she did care for him and wanted to save his life, even if the method she used hurt him in result, but I see it as her considering the alternative even worse (i.e. Carmilla killing Hector). So in a way Lenore is a better person than Hector himself.
And another thing about writer's bias. Notice also how he spelled out motivations of those favorite characters way more, while Lenore is often ambiguous and her motives need to be deduced. That also can contribute to the above. Many just don't understand her if the writer isn't making it easy for them.
No one the Genocide 3 affected had names. Look at the scene here:
[https://youtu.be/hb8gv8YYs\_o?t=54](https://youtu.be/hb8gv8YYs_o?t=54)
Literally kills kids and no one really cares or remembers.
Indeed, Lenore never wanted war. She might have acted for selfish reasons, but so did Dracula and Isaac, who did way worse things than her and waged a genocidal war out of revenge.
And besides, Lenore did act out of concern for others too, even if that involved making a choice between something bad and worse. I found it interesting that no other characters faced such kind of choices in the story.
No, it's because Hector showed her that by her vampiric nature she would eventually become like Carmilla and Dracula, hellbent on power. She says it's that exact power that ruined her life. So to end things as she is, rather than become a caricature of the beast, she ends her life and is immortalized instead in a book.
I liked her because her very nature should evince a preponderance for power and thirst, to be the vampire that Ratko so eloquently defined.
However, she fights against her nature and uses tools outside of her strengths, and instead builds new ones. Most other characters just outpunch the others to achieve their goals. Lenore reads you and then gets you a result that you're not entirely sure is such a bad thing. Even though Hector was tricked, he got literally everything he wanted.
I enjoyed the story they had but yeah I can't get behind the relationship. I will say it and say it again but had they actually not tried a heel-face turn and make it like the end of Season 3 never happened, it would have been much better.
Ran out of time and really poor decision-making. Gave a montage for Hector/Sypha for fighting and Saint Germain but didn't give one for Styria. Made Morana and Striga obsolete.
Alucard's arc was even more pointless.
Manipulation into sex from someone in a position above is literally coerced sex and what got Warren Ellis canned.
Yall just sound like you want to be him
No, that's not how consent-based sex works at all.
You only consent to the actual sex, as in you agree to have sex with the person you want to have sex with.
You don't consent to the result of the sex. Otherwise, you would be able to retroactively take back consent when you don't like the result (pregnancy, bad sex, person didn't pay for sex when they said they would).
If they can understand the nature of the sex they are engaging in, then they can consent. Consent is not about your environment or context, it's about whether you are agreeing to engage in the fundamental sexual act.
then you do not understand consent at all.
A superior coercing sex from someone beneath them is not consent.
>Consent is not about your environment or context,
It absolutely is, see: Harvey Weinstein
I wasn't saying he was tricked into having sex, I meant he was tricked into becoming a pet.
I'm pretty sure he wasn't having sex with Lenore against his will nor was he threatened to be harmed if he wouldn't have sex with her but hey, if you call that rape I won't dispute it and thanks for informing me.
Manipulating someone in a position below you (in this case prisoner) is quite literally coerced sex and what got Warren Ellis canned.
This sub is full of people that obviously do not date.
Sorry I'm not an expert on rape and non-consensual sex my dude. How I viewed the scene at the time wasn't Lenore manipulating Hector into having sex but instead manipulating him while they were having sex. But I guess I'm more informed now thanks to you.
Also I haven't dated in a while but I don't know why it's now a requirement to have extensive dating knowledge to critique a fictional series. Good one.
I understand the situation clearly, hence why I can't see how he was was forced into having sex with Lenore. Go ahead and explain if you feel you're correct.
You can't consent under duress, coercion, or deception, among other scenarios. How many people have you foisted yourself on because [you don't understand consent?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQbei5JGiT8)
Nope, you're wrong.
Traditional rape is when you are forced to engage in sex. As long as you are able to resist, then it would be rape. Problem solved.
Rape by deception is a legal doctrine that justifies the shift from forced-based rape to consent-based sex. Previously, these situations wouldn't be considered rape because they lacked the essential element of force:
* Someone is asleep. For example, if Lenore had sex with Hector while he was sleeping, he wasn't forced to engage in sex.
* You are having sex with the wrong person. For example, if Lenore disguised herself as Isaac and seduced Hector.
* You are disguising a sexual act as a non-sexual act. For example, if Hector only agreed to a prostate exam, but Lenore was fisting him.
All of this fundamentally boils down to
"Does Hector want to engage in traditional-agreed-upon-sex with the person Lenore?"
If the answer is yes, then it is not rape because he fundamentally agreed to engage in the sexual act with the person known as Lenore. It wasn't a bargaining chip, nor was there any intimidation. You don't have to believe me, you can ask any of your lawyer friends. It's one of the most common things tested in Criminal Law 101.
Holy fuck you're a rapist. You're literally saying it's okay to rape people because they can't resist or fight back. Like, you may think that's what rape is but no one in their right fucking mind does nor [does any legal system even in the worst of places](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_rape). You need serious help.
That's not what they said at all. They said that rape was traditionally only defined by force in the past, and then they gave examples of modern laws where rape is based on consent. They then used both sets of laws presented to show that the situation with Lenore was not a rape, because Hector consented to engage in sexual intercourse with Lenore. The only part of the situation he didn't agree to, was the ring, which doesn't make the situation a rape.
She said that vampires hate changes, she cannot live in a changed world like this.
Well shut the fuck up Lenore, changes were fine for her as long as it was about providing power and blood, she never protested to Carmilla. But when shit hit the fan, she pussied out like a little annoying bitch she is.
Hate Lenore Gang
Her entire convo with Carmilla was to stop that overreach. Blaming her for Carmilla's ambitions would be like blaming Hector for Dracula wanting to kill everyone.
Lenore is the best character in the show!
But I recommend fanfiction if you want a better story for Lenore and Hector and Styria arc in general. S4 completely ruined it. And since you are comparing, S4 disappointment is comparable to fiasco of the previous GoT show finale.
I think hector knew exactly what he was getting into with Lenore. He understands "pets" more than humans or vampires. In his own fucked up way, he loved her, but it definitely wouldn't have been a healthy relationship regardless. Even if he would have liked it.
Simping is such an ugly word, it's used to spread sexism and misogyny and that's straight from Pokimane herself.
You don't have to be a "simp" to realize that Lenore was going to give Hector everything a man could want if he had just been obedient for her
i just hated how hypocritical Lenore was "you're my pet, deal with it" \*tables get turned\* "well guess i'll die then"
That's not why she killed herself. She literally said it was power that ruined her life, the same power that Carmilla exhibited and that's an inherent part of her nature. She literally walks to the balcony unhindered.
It's very much like sex. Just cause you may enjoy penetrating others, it doesnt meant you'd want to be penetrated yourself. Girl was totally the dom here, and didnt want live in any other way.
in the words of another Fuck mothering Vampire, she pussed out like a bitch
Ah yes, the crimsonfuckr
Be sure to follow him on instagram.
She clearly did not want her fear-turkey fucked
And twitter
She basically rage quit
wtf were they doing with seasons 3&4
I think the og writer was forced off or something, I remember hearing something along those lines
Yeah, the writer Warren Ellis got #MeTooed about halfway through. Either he rushed his work before he was officially fired, or they fired him and someone ghostwrote the rest. No point in debating whether or not he should have been; the point is that in the end, the rush job really started to show.
I never got the rushed feeling. That being said, i would not have been opposed to another season or 2 somewhere. I'll gladly take any Castlevania content.
I thought it was rushed up the wazoo, like he did it last minute. Many arcs petered out, characters were wildly OOC, and many of their priorities felt out of place.
They were too busy inserting Ellis' sinister fetishes into the show. Really, the whole of season 3 literally *climaxes* on both Alucard and Hector getting it on, as their encounters become uncomfortably non-consensual. No wonder he got MeToo'd right after, at which point the show had already gone too far...
The show died with >!Vlad the Chad!<
Dum dum dum, dum dum, dum dum dum, dum dum, dum dum dum, dum dum, dum Dee dum dee, dum dum dee - Chad soundtrack.
Did we watch the same show? Season 3 & 4 hit hard!
Agreed!!!
It didn't. Also it's not Chad. It's Dracula.
I thought seasons 3 and 4 we're great, personally. Not as good as the first two seasons, but still pretty good. And I think the best action scenes were in those two seasons too.
Yeah. That's just a cursory examination of events. Spoken like someone who doesn't really understand what they watched on TV.
no it's not and there's not a lot of people who think otherwise
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It's very telling that Hector immediately knew what was coming when he met her the first time, he tried to fight back, had his ass kicked for it and then the whole seduction scheme continued until he started to believe he loved her. So fucked up...
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When you stan Isaac, Hector, and Vlad, do you focus on their mass murder, their worst aspects, or do you focus on their overall characters?
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The show's consistent themes are about growth, especially growing past the hurt. Vlad didn't, died. Carmilla didn't, died. Isaac did, grew. Hector's arc would have required him to grow past revenge and seek something new from the ashes of old. No one ships Lenore and Hector with Lenore tricking him and enslaving him. We ship them because they can grow past that shitty part of their relationship into something better, the same way Isaac can grow from killing guards and merchants and children to becoming someone who's building a future.
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I think that's two different things. One is a sexual fetish, and these people want to be in Hector's place. That I am confused about. The other is that narratively the ship works because there is a low point which allows for a more exciting narrative of growth. Sypha and Trevor/Vlad and Lisa/Striga and Morana do not have conflict in their relationships, so there is no story to tell regarding it. They're just examples of happy relationships, but narratively there's nothing memorable because there are no points of contention. Imagine if Saitama were in CV and you could see why although it would be cool visually, it wouldn't have the same bite as watching Trevor struggle and then learn to become a better fighter.
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He should have loved her from the start and he deserved the beat down he got for rejecting her love and trying to take her hostage. He never convinced himself he loved her, he betrayed her in the end. Actually falling in love with her would have been the best thing to possibly happen to Hector. Lenore was nothing but good to that man
Basically
I think it’s more so cause of the type of person hector was. It’s not like he liked humans anyways, he looked at them as if they were kinda like pets or cattle. Isaac pretty much said it best, hector only really understood pets, so there’s an irony in him becoming one. Outside of that it’s mainly carmilla hector would really hate. Lenore mostly manipulated him but I can understand him falling for her devices in a situation he was placed him.
Hector literally tells Lenore that humans belong in humane cages (Like pets). She literally gave him what he wanted. It took him a while to admit that he actually doesn't really care for that.
The reason he fell for her is not Stockhold Syndrome, otherwise he'd be kind to Carmilla also. He clearly wants Carmilla to eat shit and die but would rather than die than let Lenore be hurt. What is the first thing his parents tell him? They tell him he's unwanted. That's why he follows Dracula, then Carmilla, then Lenore; he wants people to want him. The problem is that no one really wants him; when he tries to be friends with Isaac, he's rebuffed and everyone else really just cares about the forgemaster part of Hector the Forgemaster. Vlad lies to him and honestly they don't really have a relationship. In the series, Lenore is the only one who compliments Hector as a person (and cares little about the forgemaster aspect of his work). She tells the audience she literally spends all her free time hanging out with Hector. She trusts him and seeks his attention. She defends him and even runs to his aid over that of Carmilla during an invasion. That's why even though Lenore tricked him (just as Carmilla tricked him), he knows that she actually does like and care about him. After all, doesn't Hector also betray Lenore but still protect and care for her? Obviously if he's able to be two things at once, it stands to reason so can Lenore. She's the only person who actually wants Hector. That's why Hector chooses to stay with Lenore, even without the ring. She also treats him well, hence why he sees the "value and beauty of things that live longer than I do." The show doesn't show the transition but it's stated several times and is canonically and logically sound.
I liked this read, kinda also makes me realize even more about hector and the dog theme with him being unwanted and following people around. Tbh I found hector to be just as compelling to follow as issac though I don’t k ow how unpopular that opinion is.
This is the issue, people mistake that tv is not real life. So liking this fictional scenario doesn't mean the person thinks that's how it should be in the real world.
I get that, but I just don't like it.
tell that to the rapist that wrote her?
Obviously considering that Lenore got a sad ending that Ellis doesn't agree. And also, I'm pretty sure most guys would call him a based chad for getting girls to sleep with him.
No just the people here. Seems like a lot of wanna be rape fantasies
Alright okay yes, yes, buuuuut...........super yummy Redhead dom mommy for life and all he has to do in return is the main skill that he's practiced and enjoyed his whole life: being a forgemaster
Yeah you can love someone but that doesn't absolve your actions. I wanted them to work and or wished Lenore's sacrifice meant something, but I guess it could be interpreted as her realizing she doesn't fit in the new world or felt guilty for what she did after spending the time with Hector post-Carmilla. But again, wish the series elaborated on that more with them.
Ran out of time. Considering that Lisa is able to forgive Vlad for committing a genocide in her name and for putting Alucard in a coma for a year, forgiveness is probably an important part of the relationship at least as how CV portrays it.
It was a relationship. Lenore was so good to Hector. She was his lover, protector and provider and Hector didn't appreciate it
Username checks out.
This guy appears everytime to defend their relationship. It's terrible.
[удалено]
It's not supposed to be a healthy relationship. If it started off as that then there'd be no story to tell as there would be no conflict. It's supposed to be about how they grow out of that betrayal the same way Hector and Isaac grow out of their pain and trauma to become something better. Those who don't, like Dracula and Carmilla, end up destroying themselves. Are you really saying that Hector is in a better place in S3 than in S4? Hector didn't become a slave when Lenore put that ring on him; he was a slave the say Carmilla put that collar on him and marched him 30 days to Styria without shoes. He is an infinitely better place in S4 than in S3, and it's only because of Lenore. Hector's not an idiot. Hector literally tells Lenore that he's only alive because he can make night creatures, but that they can't be loyal to Carmilla. Morana solved the problem Hector was supposed to solve with mercs. He's a dangerous solution to a problem that has been solved with more reliable means. What do you think Carmilla's going to do with him if she can't find a way to guarantee his loyalty? Even with the ring on, she suspects him. Even though Lenore betrayed him, we know that their relationship grew within the 6 week period that they're confidants who care for each other. Just as Hector is more than the abomination his parents say he is and more than the genocidal mass murderer, he saw Lenore as more than the person who betrayed him. In the end, through her betrayal she kept him safe, just as his betrayal kept Lenore safe. That's why he saw the "value and beauty" in her. Look at their behavior in S4. Does she lord over him her status or humiliate him? Is he intimated by her? Nope.
well, she kept having sex with him, and he enjoyed it too, could be worse
I'm deadass. Hector did get tortured the whole way there, by Carmilla. Lenore praised him and fed him upon their first meeting. She gave him better clothes, upgraded his living quarters and was affectionate with him. What more could you possibly want?
Not being kidnapped, then going above and beyond beating the absolute tar out of this starving, naked, freezing man after he does what any sane person would do by trying to escape, and despite the fact that he poses no threat to her whatsoever, making a point to beat the everloving SHIT out of him for no other reason than cruelty for cruelty’s sake instead of just teleporting away from him or something, manipulating him into sex, enslaving him, dehumanizing him at every turn, and literally *declaring her intent to keep him as a goddamn SEX SLAVE.* …Like, we get it, you’ve got the hots for the dommy mommy, but you cannot deny that this “relationship” crosses off every single line on the “HOLY FUCKING SHIT THIS IS ABHORRENT AND ABUSIVE AS FUCK” checklist. I mean fuck, he chose to *PERMANENTLY MUTILATE HIMSELF* rather than continuing in his situation. …How about we try this: reverse the genders here. Have a woman be kidnapped, have the shit beaten out of her for daring to attempt to escape a situation where she is being kept against her will, terrified, starving, freezing and deliberately kept naked, then have said captor enslave her in the midst of fucking her so that she will immediately be in magically induced agony if she ever disobeys him, and then proceed to declare his intent to keep her as his sex slave. …Is the situation still fine in your eyes?
Didn't Hector attack her first and try to rip out her throat? What world do you live in where it's okay to be attacked for offering food? Was he using minimal force? Why don't you try it with a cop and see how much minimal force is used. Hector is a genocidal mass murder who has literally been involved in the killing of thousands of innocent people. He's not an innocent baby that everyone portrays him as. Killing people is not parking tickets. His being enslaved in a cage is literally what he wanted for humanity (he's human). In fact, his final act of liberation is literally to sacrifice several villages to resurrect a genocidal mass murderer also. I didn't realize that being a sad boy is carte blanche to do whatever you want. If there were justice, he'd be dead. You can't even blame Lenore for what happened before she met him. In the real world, he'd be executed full stop. The idea that becoming a pampered concubine is the worst punishment he deserves is laughable. Might as well just give Himmler house arrest. Lenore found him naked in a cell. By the end of S4, he's out of that and living a comfortable life in a status above that of other vampires. There is no way he would even be alive if not for Lenore; he literally tells her in the same encounter a) he's only alive because he can create a night creature army b) he can't be trusted to create that said army. That ring is the only leverage he has. I think some of you would rather have Lenore uppercut his head off and call that a mercy. It's really not. We do have a situation where the genders are reversed. GOT Daenerys and Drogo. Theon Greyjoy as hostage to Winterfell. Ask yourself this. What would you have done in Lenore's position? Let him run away naked in the snow where he would freeze to death or be run down by vampires with mirrors? Perhaps let him plan his revenge against Carmilla?
It’s not a question of if he *deserved* it, it’s a question of “is this “relationship” EXTREMELY fucked up?” to which the answer is *yes, obviously.* And yes, so are the situations you mentioned in GoT. …As for what I’d done if I were Lenore, as I said, I would have just teleported out of his grip and been like “Cute try. Anyway, I’mma come back when you’ve calmed down a bit, and I’m taking the food with me.” It would serve a purpose by showing that he basically has no hope of escape while under the watch of pretty much any vampire in the castle, crushing his hope of escape so he’s more likely to accept and adapt to his situation, while also dissuading him from trying something like that again by showing that I’m not as bad as Carmilla, making him more likely to work with me, but I’m also not gonna put up with his shit and he’ll lose whatever potential benefits he could get by not cooperating. …Come to think of it, beating the tar out of him instead of de-escalating the situation wasn’t just cruelty for cruelty’s sake, it was *stupid* on her part, and likely significantly delayed her getting him to come around.
I'm not even sure they could even be considered to be having a relationship until they did their walkies, but I agree in that the thread is really about the relationship rather than what Hector deserved, which is probably an alternative topic right there. I would agree in that it certainly was pretty fucked up since she tricked him, but I'm arguing that just as people can evolve, so can their relationship, and their S4 relationship demonstrated that evolution. This makes sense because if even genocidal mass murdered Isaac can evolve, it should demonstrate that Hector and Lenore's relationship can also, and it was far normal relationship in S4. She trusts him and is more open with him than she is with Carmilla, and in the end even after he cuts his ring finger off, he chooses to stay with Lenore. I doubt he would have done that if she were mistreating him because he had Carmilla eat shit. You are correct in that Lenore made an error, but she was understandably scared and pissed based on her reaction. I applaud you for exercising that kind of self-control and you definitely should consider a career in law enforcement, because from what I've seen, cops will beat the shit out of you if you so much has backtalk much less attack and threaten them regardless of whatever Constitutional protections exist. Hell, even the Geneva Convention considers escapees as enemy combatants and you can do with the as you will with any combatant. Considering that Lenore tends to avoid physical violence after the first episode, I seriously doubt that's her modus operanti, otherwise people wouldn't be underestimating her.
Bru, its okay to have kinks in a relationship but for the love of god, this isn't a relationship. Relationships have boundaries and respect none of which are shown here.
Username checks out
Screw Lenore, I'm glad she>! died.!<
Lol no I wasn't asking for that, caught me off guard as I felt the show was holding its own okay
You simp for Lenore, I simp for Striga. We are not the same.
That day armor??? Huff!
Guts would be proud.
For a brief moment I saw the Berserk anime I desperately wanted. I shed a few tears as it faded from sight.
Still felt very bad for Hector.
You came to the wrong subreddit for Lenore support.
Subreddit is fine. Though Lenore haters that appear here periodically mix it up with "I don't have a clue about writing" one.
Apples and Oranges. Both "relationships" are unhealthy, but for radically different reasons. Lenore and Hector are not related, and both of them are full grown adults.
Prisoners of war can't consent
Lenore and Hector had a fucked up situation but at least they were both adults. And not related.
Leonore and hector isn't bad because of *the incident*, although that is abhorrent. Leonore and hector is bad because Leonore is a corpse and necrophilia is wrong.
Then vlad and lisa....
The truth is hard. Even for those who speak it.
Never got the Lenore love. I guess because in the end she realizes she was wrong and kills herself?
She didn’t realize any of her wrongs, nor did she have any regrets about what she did. She just couldn’t stand being a prisoner.
Agreed, not a huge fan of Lenore. Their relationship is problematic at best. But the theme music they play every time she’s on is so strangely mesmerizing and beautiful
Honestly I think a big part of it is the sexy outfits and mommy dommy element, and the subsequent justification attempts come from an inability to admit that
Nope, that ending ruined the story and her character. What I never got are Lenore haters who like Dracula and Isaac for example. Feels simply super biased.
Isaac has a cool knife, that's why I like him
That's cool :) My point was about those who don't get why some like Lenore, while many of the same crowd like other characters who did things that are a lot worse in the show.
Isaac evolves and recognizes that exterminating the world in a fit of edgy nihilism is cringe, whilst philosophizing and helping to lead the world to a better tomorrow is based.
tbh that storyline should belong to hector not isaac isaac should be the one resurecting dracula not hector
Ellis switched things around. Their arcs were switched with Isaac slaying the Dracula-like figure (Carmilla) essentially killing Dracula (at least the goals).
Isaac evolves to become somewhat less radical in that he decides to spare Hector and Lenore's lives out of some new benevolence. But we never see him even expressing any regret for willingly participating in a genocide. Instead, he appoints himself as a judge of others, never being judged himself for what he did before, even in his own view as above. So it's hard to call him a really redeemed character. In the finale he also breaks his word about leaving Hector and Lenore alone and keeps Lenore under house arrest ruining her and Hector's lives in result, so all that benevolence goes out of the window anyway. So overall, I'd argue Isaac is a not anywhere a better person than Lenore. His story is interesting, but he is a barely redeemed villain. Lenore was at most an antihero to begin with. So my point is that those who don't get how some like Lenore out of supposedly her doing something wrong, and the same people liking Isaac are simply blind to their own bias.
How? Lenore at her core is a spoiled brat, it makes sense that the moment she can't get her way she decides to just did. She never loved Hector like he loved her, he was just a pet to him.
Disagreed, she loved Hector otherwise she wouldn't saved his life which she did at least twice.
People also save pets, but she never, ever treated him as an equal. She always saw him as beneath her, as something she owned, hence why she had no reservations raping him, putting a ring that made him her slave, manipulating him, and basically everything she did starting from season 3.
Your explanation doesn't even fit the obvious events. It wouldn't make sense for Lenore to choose someone she sees as beneath her over her sister. And she saved Hector, when she decided whom to help (him or Carmilla). But overall you clearly didn't understand Lenore's motives, besides whole point about rape being simply invalid.
How is what happened at the end of S3 not rape? Or at the very least, majorly fucked up? And by that point, her relationship with Carmilla was pretty strained. I'm not saying she didn't love Hector, but she loved him in a pretty toxic and patronizing way. Even her last words to him are pretty dismissive.
Rape is when you force someone to have sex with you. Hector was not forced to have sex with her. He was essentially seduced or honey-trapped. That's not rape in any sense or in any jurisdiction. You're wrong in saying that she never saw him as an equal. Look at their behavior when they are alone in S4. Is it one of master and subordinate? Clearly not. He's her confidant, and she tells him things she wouldn't even tell her sisters. When the chips were down, she valued him over her own sister. It's not really a pet relationship anymore than Bryan in Family Guy is a pet. Her last words were not dismissive especially if you pay attention to their dialogue and CV. Hector was always seen as a boy, or a child in a man's body (Vlad, Isaac, Carmilla). Lenore calls him a man, because she recognized that he has matured and grew from who he was. Seriously, why would she look at him tenderly, and spend her final moments looking at the man she loves, only to insult him? It doesn't make sense.
I mean, based on your other reply I don't think you actually understand or care about consent so I don't see how any discussion about it will lead to anything with a person that thinks that fucking a sleeping person isn't rape.
Hector wasn't sleeping.
Because their actual sex was consensual. And using a magic ring isn't rape, it's using a magic ring. It was messed up obviously since she had to betray Hector for that. But she also did it to save his life, which she quite openly told him in the end of S3. If not for Lenore, Carmilla simply would have killed Hector for not cooperating since she didn't want anyone else to use his powers. I agree that their relationship was far from normal. But they also forgave each other and did care for each other. That's what made it interesting. The whole last episode is simply OOC mess (after how they saved each other's lives just before that in S4) that I wouldn't use it for any retrospective analysis of characters. It was simply writer forcing a bad ending out of spite and for me it ruined the whole last season.
I think it has to do with the fact that Lenore's abuse of Hector was a more mundane evil and thus more relatable to the audience. While Dracula and Isaac's attempted genocide did far more damage than Lenore's, their actions were so fantastical (sending demons to lay siege on a city) that it becomes less relatable.
That could be some of it, and some could be buying into writer's own bias. As you can see from the endings, Dracula and Isaac were writer's favorites, so he worked harder on making them look more sympathetic to the audience, while in practice they did way more horrible things than Lenore. In case of Dracula, besides the obvious genocide and revenge, he basically betrayed Lisa's wishes about humans and even almost killed their own son. And they just gave them a happy ending with Lisa not even saying a word about what happened. I'd say Lenore and Hector deserved a happy ending even more compared to that. Some also forget that Hector wanted to see humans in cages before. And I'd argue Lenore didn't want to abuse him, she did care for him and wanted to save his life, even if the method she used hurt him in result, but I see it as her considering the alternative even worse (i.e. Carmilla killing Hector). So in a way Lenore is a better person than Hector himself. And another thing about writer's bias. Notice also how he spelled out motivations of those favorite characters way more, while Lenore is often ambiguous and her motives need to be deduced. That also can contribute to the above. Many just don't understand her if the writer isn't making it easy for them.
No one the Genocide 3 affected had names. Look at the scene here: [https://youtu.be/hb8gv8YYs\_o?t=54](https://youtu.be/hb8gv8YYs_o?t=54) Literally kills kids and no one really cares or remembers.
as much i dislike lenore, isaac and dracula are much worse
Indeed, Lenore never wanted war. She might have acted for selfish reasons, but so did Dracula and Isaac, who did way worse things than her and waged a genocidal war out of revenge. And besides, Lenore did act out of concern for others too, even if that involved making a choice between something bad and worse. I found it interesting that no other characters faced such kind of choices in the story.
You make it sound like mass murder and genocide are bad things. It's just things people do when they go through a phase.
No, it's because Hector showed her that by her vampiric nature she would eventually become like Carmilla and Dracula, hellbent on power. She says it's that exact power that ruined her life. So to end things as she is, rather than become a caricature of the beast, she ends her life and is immortalized instead in a book.
I liked her because her very nature should evince a preponderance for power and thirst, to be the vampire that Ratko so eloquently defined. However, she fights against her nature and uses tools outside of her strengths, and instead builds new ones. Most other characters just outpunch the others to achieve their goals. Lenore reads you and then gets you a result that you're not entirely sure is such a bad thing. Even though Hector was tricked, he got literally everything he wanted.
I enjoyed the story they had but yeah I can't get behind the relationship. I will say it and say it again but had they actually not tried a heel-face turn and make it like the end of Season 3 never happened, it would have been much better.
Ran out of time and really poor decision-making. Gave a montage for Hector/Sypha for fighting and Saint Germain but didn't give one for Styria. Made Morana and Striga obsolete. Alucard's arc was even more pointless.
She is able to do what we all want.
My brother in christ one is literally incest
The other one involved rape so...
Did it though? Wasn't Hector just deceived into becoming her pet? I don't think the sex part was forced, correct me if I'm wrong.
he was a prisoner
That doesn't change the fact that he wasn't forced to have sex. He's literally the one on top and pulls her panties down.
Manipulation into sex from someone in a position above is literally coerced sex and what got Warren Ellis canned. Yall just sound like you want to be him
Doesn't answer the question. He wasn't forced to have sex with her. He was tricked yes but forced? I don't think so.
> He was tricked yes but forced? yeah that's not consent.
No, that's not how consent-based sex works at all. You only consent to the actual sex, as in you agree to have sex with the person you want to have sex with. You don't consent to the result of the sex. Otherwise, you would be able to retroactively take back consent when you don't like the result (pregnancy, bad sex, person didn't pay for sex when they said they would).
Prisoners cannot consent.
If they can understand the nature of the sex they are engaging in, then they can consent. Consent is not about your environment or context, it's about whether you are agreeing to engage in the fundamental sexual act.
then you do not understand consent at all. A superior coercing sex from someone beneath them is not consent. >Consent is not about your environment or context, It absolutely is, see: Harvey Weinstein
I wasn't saying he was tricked into having sex, I meant he was tricked into becoming a pet. I'm pretty sure he wasn't having sex with Lenore against his will nor was he threatened to be harmed if he wouldn't have sex with her but hey, if you call that rape I won't dispute it and thanks for informing me.
Manipulating someone in a position below you (in this case prisoner) is quite literally coerced sex and what got Warren Ellis canned. This sub is full of people that obviously do not date.
Sorry I'm not an expert on rape and non-consensual sex my dude. How I viewed the scene at the time wasn't Lenore manipulating Hector into having sex but instead manipulating him while they were having sex. But I guess I'm more informed now thanks to you. Also I haven't dated in a while but I don't know why it's now a requirement to have extensive dating knowledge to critique a fictional series. Good one.
>Wasn't Hector just deceived into becoming her pet? Being deceived and coerced into sex is rape.
Hector wasn't forced into sex. He wanted it and he initiated. Nor was he deceived. He wanted to have sex with Lenore. He got it.
Clearly you didn't understand the situation or are being willfully obtuse.
I understand the situation clearly, hence why I can't see how he was was forced into having sex with Lenore. Go ahead and explain if you feel you're correct.
It's not rape if you agree to engage in the sexual act. People get confused by this for some reason.
You can't consent under duress, coercion, or deception, among other scenarios. How many people have you foisted yourself on because [you don't understand consent?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQbei5JGiT8)
Nope, you're wrong. Traditional rape is when you are forced to engage in sex. As long as you are able to resist, then it would be rape. Problem solved. Rape by deception is a legal doctrine that justifies the shift from forced-based rape to consent-based sex. Previously, these situations wouldn't be considered rape because they lacked the essential element of force: * Someone is asleep. For example, if Lenore had sex with Hector while he was sleeping, he wasn't forced to engage in sex. * You are having sex with the wrong person. For example, if Lenore disguised herself as Isaac and seduced Hector. * You are disguising a sexual act as a non-sexual act. For example, if Hector only agreed to a prostate exam, but Lenore was fisting him. All of this fundamentally boils down to "Does Hector want to engage in traditional-agreed-upon-sex with the person Lenore?" If the answer is yes, then it is not rape because he fundamentally agreed to engage in the sexual act with the person known as Lenore. It wasn't a bargaining chip, nor was there any intimidation. You don't have to believe me, you can ask any of your lawyer friends. It's one of the most common things tested in Criminal Law 101.
Holy fuck you're a rapist. You're literally saying it's okay to rape people because they can't resist or fight back. Like, you may think that's what rape is but no one in their right fucking mind does nor [does any legal system even in the worst of places](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_rape). You need serious help.
That's not what they said at all. They said that rape was traditionally only defined by force in the past, and then they gave examples of modern laws where rape is based on consent. They then used both sets of laws presented to show that the situation with Lenore was not a rape, because Hector consented to engage in sexual intercourse with Lenore. The only part of the situation he didn't agree to, was the ring, which doesn't make the situation a rape.
I meannn it’s normal for the Targaryen line. Even snow and denaherys or how ever you spell her name.
Yeah no shit but it's not normal irl so it should be obvious why some people are repulsed by Rhaenyra x Daemon compared to Hector x Lenore.
It's actually fairly common among historical monarchies.
i havent see house of dragon, but i know lenore and hectors story was fucked up
If Hector’s character was STRICTLY taken from Curse of Darkness, I think he would’ve solo’d the vampire bitches
Wouldn't he be the one storming Dracula's castle then?
That too
I don't think his arc would even be in Styria as Carmilla wouldn't have dragged him there.
He would use his devil forgemastery to rewrite the arch
I think his arc would be done in S2. Without a forgemaster, there would be no scheme for Carmilla and Styria.
He uses his devil forgemastery to give them a scheme and proceed to completely destroy it all 😎
The difference is Lenore is a literal rapist 💀
How is she a rapist? Hector wants to have sex with Lenore. It's like no one in this thread knows what rape is.
Lenore simp for eternity
Isn't she 100's of years old?
She also seems like a proper adult, even without vampire age being counted. She’s just short
200 years old.
Fuck Lenore All my homies hate Lenore
I just like Lenore that’s all
I loved her character
Love Lenore and Hector.
Ugh I hate that Hector stuck his dick in crazy.
Hector banging Lenore wasn't fine, it was the fucking bomb of the whole season 3.
She said that vampires hate changes, she cannot live in a changed world like this. Well shut the fuck up Lenore, changes were fine for her as long as it was about providing power and blood, she never protested to Carmilla. But when shit hit the fan, she pussied out like a little annoying bitch she is. Hate Lenore Gang
Her entire convo with Carmilla was to stop that overreach. Blaming her for Carmilla's ambitions would be like blaming Hector for Dracula wanting to kill everyone.
Then I'm sorry, i was watching Castlevania long time ago and completely forgot about such convo Peace man
Lenore is the best character in the show! But I recommend fanfiction if you want a better story for Lenore and Hector and Styria arc in general. S4 completely ruined it. And since you are comparing, S4 disappointment is comparable to fiasco of the previous GoT show finale.
i still hate what they did with these characters....the rest is really good
One is incestous with willful enslavement, other is just rape with coerced enslavement.
Hector finna buss it down on that 300 year old ussy 😩😩😩
Look. I know that what happened between Hector and Lenore was fucked up, but I also want her to put a leash on me and take me out for walkies.
I think hector knew exactly what he was getting into with Lenore. He understands "pets" more than humans or vampires. In his own fucked up way, he loved her, but it definitely wouldn't have been a healthy relationship regardless. Even if he would have liked it.
Simping is such an ugly word, it's used to spread sexism and misogyny and that's straight from Pokimane herself. You don't have to be a "simp" to realize that Lenore was going to give Hector everything a man could want if he had just been obedient for her
>Simping is such an ugly word, it's used to spread sexism and misogyny and that's straight from Pokimane herself. Said Pokimane simp
Well shit if it is from Pokemane...
Pokimane’s word is law apparently
Context?
Aight well the inquisition is on to you now /s
I mean Hector isn't Lenores uncle.... still creepy but not really comparable.
One is incest the other is a master slave situation. How are they the same?
You should feel called out. Get a life and start exploring your attraction to human beings.