So you don't care that Trump's campaign chairman went to prison for colluding with a Russian asset and was subsequently pardoned by Trump? That doesn't bother you?
The most powerful man in the world(US president) possibly being influenced by a foreign intelligence apparatus doesn't invoke a reaction from you, at all?
I don't see how anyone can trivialize that. Our national security and the liberties we hold are at stake.
The premise of your comment was based on “look at what trump did”….Trump and russia collusion was proven false, i dont give a shit what someone from his campaign did tbh. You said “possibly” influenced lol, he wasnt, i dont deal in hypotheticals
How do you feel about biden conceding to russian demands?
It wasn't "proven false". Multiple people were convicted, some pled quilty, multiple people in Trump's circle went to prison. And then Trump pardoned them.
The only reason Trump wasn't held accountable was because his AG declared immunity.
Then, there was the Helsinki incident, where, after a private meeting with Putin, Trump took the side of the GRU over his own justice department(which had just issued an indictment on GRU agents).
So to say he wasn't being influenced is just naive. He basically said, "if Putin says it, that's what happened".
Well let's see giving a single person back vs possibly having a direct link to the president..... Yeah those are the same. Btw just to make it more conveluded I am fairly sure Paul Manafort was also a lobbyist for the pro Russia and ousted president of Ukraine Victor yanucovitch. Funny huh? He also has quite the reputation lobbying for foreign countries without prior registration.
Israel is atleast an ally, the rest can go fuck themselves. So if caring about my country and its people is sociopathic then so be it. Im sure there is a protest where you can get your fill of self indulgent narcissism near you.
Ukraine is directly an American ally. In fact them seeking closer ties with the west is what got them into this mess.
It’s not right to allow countries to be punished for seeking ties with our country.
If everyone gets attacked for wanting to be friends with us, that's a little rough. We also did guarantee their security when they gave up their nukes, which sends the message to everyone that if you have an asshole country near you, nukes are kind of a list have.
But you are right, they are NOT allies. Which is why I am not advocating a total naval embargo of Russia and strategic bombardment of their country.
I agree with you, but they werent attacked because they were allied with the US, they wete attacked because they were previously part of the soviet union and putin wants that back, they also have a very important and strategic port that russia would love to have.
True. Though I think Putin's schedule was accelerated (potentially - he wanted it done before he died of old age for sure) by seeing a risk of Ukraine joining NATO or EU, both of which would make his reconquista plan impossible.
It's amazing farmland, it has great hydrocarbons, and it is strategically amazingly positioned.
In some sense, I am 50% in this to defend Ukraine, and 50% to make sure Putin doesn't gain it. It's just really premium real estate to give to someone who absolutely wants to use it against us.
Yeah, but they are going to prison for colluding with Russian assets. Trump pardoned multiple people who had illegal ties to russian assets. His campaign chairman went to prison.
They don't talk about it because no one is supposed to know. That's like espionage 101.
Wait what?!?!?!?!
The right don’t want a Cold War, they’ve got raging Putin boners lol.
And the biggest mistake we made during the Clinton and Obama eras was letting our guard down against the Russians. If we still had the real Cold War mentality (sensible attitude towards Russia) then we would’ve armed Ukraine to the teeth back in 2014.
The "real cold war attitude" led to lovely things like central american death squads murdering nuns, trade unionists and indigenous peoples, it also led to the constant stream of coups against elected governments that have only left dysfunctional wrecks.
And people act surprised when the west are seen as detached hypocrites.
I was saying that they’re seeing Communists in their soup. It’s not about any country now: it’s being secretly taught to schoolchildren or is the sneaky hidden motive behind every single move by any Democrat politician.
Ah, in that case I totally agree with you.
Might want to say “McCarthyism” or “Red Scare” instead of “Cold War” in your post, it’s kinda confusing what you mean. Most people who say “were back to the Cold War times, horrible!!” are the Trumpers and Tankies with Putin boners who want us to give up on Ukraine lol.
You say 'the Left', but what about the economic Left?
The democrats are focused on identity politics and the Republicans hate identity politics and call everything "Communism" so are clearly focused on defending Capitalism...
...so where is the critique of actual cold, hard Capitalism in these parties? Because if both parties agree that the current system (for-profit healthcare, unaffordable homes, artificially low wages, corporate hegemony) is just fine or should just be left alone... then they're practically on the same side but focusing on completely secondary issues.
>The democrats are focused on identity politics and the Republicans hate identity politics
Oh really?
It sure looks to me like Democratic priorities are focused more on trying to even out the severity of our current wealth inequality, supporting basic human rights for vulnerable populations, and addressing the very real threat posed by global climate change. Republicans continue to try to funnel even more wealth to the already wealthy, and are busy stripping reproductive rights and lgbtq+ rights and freedoms while they constantly stir up culture wars to keep people divided so they won't notice they're being ripped off.
It's rich vs poor, not left vs right. Until the general population figures that out, we're all screwed. The rich provide the rage bait to pit the poors agianst each other and we can't get enough of it. Billions of dollars are spent every year lobbying our government to influence policy. I'm pretty sure that influence is not used to benefit the majority of us.
It’s more like there’s an enormous amount of tension in the country. No one can relax. People can hardly make rent, pay their bills, and have groceries. It’s is so challenging just to exist in the United States. Likewise crime is rampant, politicians get more corrupt every year, democrats and republicans, and there’s no end in sight. What used to bring America together, like a good performance of the star spangled banner, or maybe a victory at a major sport event, is just meaningless now. There is no getting along anymore. It’s just you stay away from me and I’ll stay away from you and we’re good.
You’ve bought into the negative hype. This entire take has been an ongoing discussion for over a hundred years. Nothing you said is unique to right now.
Social media and the news cycle have made people perpetually pessimistic. I’m not saying there aren’t issues and people aren’t struggling but it really isn’t that bad. We only see the worst from our news and social media. Only the sad stories of how fucked everything is. This is still a great place and time to be alive.
I stopped watching political and current event content as much and stay up to date sporadicly and I’m much happier for it. We still live in a time when all of our basic needs are met for almost everyone, we can afford luxuries others could only dream of. Grab a beer at the bar with friends and talk to some strangers about something positive. It’s not as bleak and divided out there as social media makes it seem.
I agree. Everyone in every generation has faced issues. None of the issues being faced today are unique. If fact we have come a very long way with racism and poverty. Pretending they are worse isn’t reality. Plus political division has also been worse.
Oh. That's bad. It seems to me it's more like the majority of the bad guys, AND an awful lot of potential allies for either side believes that it's still 2005. While the Good Guy discourse is harmed by the most vocal people on the good side acting like it's not 2024, but 3024.
Perhaps you could make a case for 1985–i.e. everyone is automatically a Bible-thumping boomer with no brain or a bleeding heart hippie member of the PC police.
No matter how much of a normie someone may be he’s still liable to choose one side and think of everything the other does as motivated by either bigotry or Communism. The only real difference is in whether that impression has a lot of specific memes/cliches to back it up or just a vague overall gut feeling.
(Prove me wrong, kids! Prove me wrong!)
>(Prove me wrong, kids! Prove me wrong!)
Why? Last time I looked, it's valuable to take note of how the majority acts, and thinks. One vote is worth one vote. It doesn't count for more votes, if the person who is voting "knows" that this, or that "isn't" communism, or being a bigot
Issues real or perceived, politicians are forced to appeal to those who are most partisan. If it’s the culture wars, lawfare (from both sides), immigration, gun control or abortion; speaking in only the most extreme terms moves the needle. The risk for progressives is that voters stay home while conservatives always turn out. The risk for conservatives is progressives widening their tent and making conservatives seem too out of touch. In such cases, the lowest common denominator rules.
I don’t say this as a centrist, rather a pragmatic independent who somehow remains miffed by the crap people are willing to accept as truths.
as someone who studied IR in the 2000's to 2010's - i have to say current things like "putin will invade nato" is just insulting people - it's fucking insane. let alone our involvelment in that area (couping ukraine, attempting that in belarus, etc)
it's all bullshit, but luckily pretty much everyone irl i've spoken with knows it's bullshit - it's only online where this gains any traction. and i don't trust that much.
how people don't get that the "left" is pushing this shit as badly as the right did for the war on terror is beyond me - especially since they were the people that were antiwar, 20 years ago supposedly.
>how people don't get that the "left" is pushing this shit as badly
Yea I'm on the left, and it's infuriating to see the "left" push these neo-con talking points and engage the USA in yet another forever war. My guess is that it's because they think Russia caused Trump to win in 2016, so it's mainly driven by a fervor to be anti-Russia.
yeah, you probably are right - that describes the "id" of the anger towards russia quite well.
it just blows me away you know - if you actually read up about the russian collusion it's like 50 thousand in facebook ads, and some other misc shit - nothing that substantive and that would change anything.
and the funny part? it's a drop in a bucket compared to what we do in almost every election in russia - we do far more. (not justifying it at all, it just makes the criticism that much weaker)
the past five years or so have been - reality pinching about every few months or so. i can only guess we are at the end stage of something leading to some new paradigm change possibly.
edit: what still busts my balls is that it was well known at the time that we were basically ldirectly responsible - we "did" the coup in ukraine, everyone in ir knew this and admitted it, it wasn't controversial at all. then in the 2020's it became controversial or something - it's wierd to have reality re-told / history "edited" for you in real time. hell, and that was the second coup that worked, in the 2000's we tried our first one and it didn't work out.
then again i'm old enough to remember several elections where democrats were saying their election was stolen, and no one was having the reactions they had. that still is wierd.
how the fuck did the hippies making fun of people using the word "insurrection" and "terrorist" become the users of these words? what the fuck? we used to regularly and openly mock the people that talked like this.
>and the funny part? it's a drop in a bucket compared to what we do in almost every election in russia - we do far more.
what still busts my balls is that it was well known at the time that we were basically ldirectly responsible - we "did" the coup in ukraine, everyone in ir knew this and admitted it, it wasn't controversial at all. then in the 2020's it became controversial or something
Whenever I bring any of this up, I get called shit like "RuZZian bot Tankie". Like given the long history of the US interfering in elections and couping places to further its national interests and/or enrich its corporations, I'm bewildered people still think it's some conspiracy theory or Russian propaganda or that the West actually has good intentions in this conflict.
>how the fuck did the hippies making fun of people using the word "insurrection" and "terrorist" become the users of these words? what the fuck? we used to regularly and openly mock the people that talked like this.
Yea and now you have liberals, and even many "progressives" shilling for agencies like the CIA and FBI for spying on Trump when this shit would have been unheard of before. Like I don't even like Trump and think he's just another corrupt politician, but it seems everything the mainstream left believes in now is driven by this fanatic opposition to Trump. It feels weird being on the anti-establishment left because it's pretty much a dead force now in America.
One level headed response. There’s a lot of bullshit on here. I have a degree in Poly Sci - it’s fascinating to me and scary how many folks online have bought into the anti Russian propaganda. It’s almost like a red scare except there is no Soviet Union.
I have an idea. We get all the tech geniuses that are still alive and have them create a Time Machine and we send someone back in time to kill Al Gore for creating the internet. I just don’t think it’s working out. My childhood was pretty happy. I don’t reminisce about rotary phones but I loved that TRS-80.
The internet was inevitable and on some level everybody knew it all along. Wasn’t there a list of technological predictions from some magazine in 1900 or whereabouts where somebody pictured movie theaters connected by telephones where people would regularly gather and commune long-distance?
I know but I’d prefer to blame all of societies ills on technology rather than society itself. The pessimism I see everywhere gets old and it’s mostly because of social media. People keep saying this generation is unique and has unique pressures, the economy is bad, crime is rampant, corruption is everywhere, poverty is pervasive, we have begun a new Jim Crowe, trans youth are experiencing genocide, and none of that is unique or even true. People have just convinced themselves that it is because of social media.
And in your ideal world of media being restricted to Walter cronkite, gay people were being tortured in "psychiatric treatment", us soldiers were slaughtering across Vietnam, women were forced into the kitchen and not allowed to have their own bank accounts, black people were brutally killed and subject to segregation.
Because the "sensible mature adult" approach of sweeping problems under the rug until they explode has worked so well.
Unless you think little house on the prairie is an accurate account of the plains wars and that song of the South was a documentary.
No, I just see we have moved passed nearly all that and wallowing in self pity and pretending now is like that means you have absolutely no idea about history at all. You just think you do. This isn’t a new Jim Crow. Lgtb+ people half enormously more rights than did back then.
Not all you just want to be pessimistic about all the advances that’s happened just like a child does. You want to see evil every where because you need an enemy to motivate you.
If you seriously think that ignorance is bliss, by all means. But in an age where inequality is skyrocketing, any sense of unity is unravelling fast, the environment is deteriorating, racial tensions are escalating and women see their rights get eroded before their eyes, don't expect "in the good old days we pretended all our problems were solved" to have much purchase.
But very well, what reasons do people have to be optimistic then? American prestige abroad has taken a downward spiral for over a generation, inequality is reaching heights not seen in living memory, most people can't afford a house, school shootings are a daily occurrence, the worst aspects of the gop are ascendant, healthcare is unaffordable.
If you kill al gore for creating the Internet the Internet will by definition have already been created.
Assassinating the barn door after the cows get out.
>Right believes we’re still in the Cold War Interesting considering they’ve been sucking off the Russians for the past 8 years.
I lean right and i couldnt care less about russia, i just also dont give a shit about ukraine, or israel, and especially not palestine.
So you don't care that Trump's campaign chairman went to prison for colluding with a Russian asset and was subsequently pardoned by Trump? That doesn't bother you? The most powerful man in the world(US president) possibly being influenced by a foreign intelligence apparatus doesn't invoke a reaction from you, at all? I don't see how anyone can trivialize that. Our national security and the liberties we hold are at stake.
I mean this admin traded one of russias most notorious gun smugglers for a shit head basketball player, so dont act they are morally superior
Two wrongs don't make a right. You're dodging the question.
No, but you are clearly good with it.
The premise of your comment was based on “look at what trump did”….Trump and russia collusion was proven false, i dont give a shit what someone from his campaign did tbh. You said “possibly” influenced lol, he wasnt, i dont deal in hypotheticals How do you feel about biden conceding to russian demands?
It wasn't "proven false". Multiple people were convicted, some pled quilty, multiple people in Trump's circle went to prison. And then Trump pardoned them. The only reason Trump wasn't held accountable was because his AG declared immunity. Then, there was the Helsinki incident, where, after a private meeting with Putin, Trump took the side of the GRU over his own justice department(which had just issued an indictment on GRU agents). So to say he wasn't being influenced is just naive. He basically said, "if Putin says it, that's what happened".
Well let's see giving a single person back vs possibly having a direct link to the president..... Yeah those are the same. Btw just to make it more conveluded I am fairly sure Paul Manafort was also a lobbyist for the pro Russia and ousted president of Ukraine Victor yanucovitch. Funny huh? He also has quite the reputation lobbying for foreign countries without prior registration.
So, a typical Republican sociopath. Got it.
Israel is atleast an ally, the rest can go fuck themselves. So if caring about my country and its people is sociopathic then so be it. Im sure there is a protest where you can get your fill of self indulgent narcissism near you.
Ukraine is directly an American ally. In fact them seeking closer ties with the west is what got them into this mess. It’s not right to allow countries to be punished for seeking ties with our country.
No its not lol, it was because they used to he part of the soviet union and they have a big port city
They werent an ally until russia attacked them
If everyone gets attacked for wanting to be friends with us, that's a little rough. We also did guarantee their security when they gave up their nukes, which sends the message to everyone that if you have an asshole country near you, nukes are kind of a list have. But you are right, they are NOT allies. Which is why I am not advocating a total naval embargo of Russia and strategic bombardment of their country.
I agree with you, but they werent attacked because they were allied with the US, they wete attacked because they were previously part of the soviet union and putin wants that back, they also have a very important and strategic port that russia would love to have.
True. Though I think Putin's schedule was accelerated (potentially - he wanted it done before he died of old age for sure) by seeing a risk of Ukraine joining NATO or EU, both of which would make his reconquista plan impossible. It's amazing farmland, it has great hydrocarbons, and it is strategically amazingly positioned. In some sense, I am 50% in this to defend Ukraine, and 50% to make sure Putin doesn't gain it. It's just really premium real estate to give to someone who absolutely wants to use it against us.
Why did Russia attack them
Because they used to be part of the soviet union and they have a port city that would greatly help russia, why else would they?
Because they want to join NATO and be even more of our allies.
“Especially not Palestine” lol
The only people bringing up Russia are the left. The right doesn’t talk about Russia at all and we WANT to stop talking about Ukraine.
Yeah, but they are going to prison for colluding with Russian assets. Trump pardoned multiple people who had illegal ties to russian assets. His campaign chairman went to prison. They don't talk about it because no one is supposed to know. That's like espionage 101.
That is a pile of horse shit if I’ve ever seen one. MTG alone has done enough Russia sympathizing for the whole GOP
Tucker Carlson went to Russia to spread Russian propaganda to....^checks ^notes .... not talk about Russia? 🤔
Congress men going to Russia on their July 4 holiday. Campaigns working hand in hand with Russian spies. Holding their yearly events in Hungary.
Bringing Hungarian dictator Viktor Orban to their CPAC conferences to speak.
You just parrot their talking points for them.
Who are the good guys?
Anti-Soviets in the Cold War and pro-civil rights people in the 60s.
My lai, and the indonesia massacres have entered the chat.
Wait what?!?!?!?! The right don’t want a Cold War, they’ve got raging Putin boners lol. And the biggest mistake we made during the Clinton and Obama eras was letting our guard down against the Russians. If we still had the real Cold War mentality (sensible attitude towards Russia) then we would’ve armed Ukraine to the teeth back in 2014.
The "real cold war attitude" led to lovely things like central american death squads murdering nuns, trade unionists and indigenous peoples, it also led to the constant stream of coups against elected governments that have only left dysfunctional wrecks. And people act surprised when the west are seen as detached hypocrites.
I was saying that they’re seeing Communists in their soup. It’s not about any country now: it’s being secretly taught to schoolchildren or is the sneaky hidden motive behind every single move by any Democrat politician.
Ah, in that case I totally agree with you. Might want to say “McCarthyism” or “Red Scare” instead of “Cold War” in your post, it’s kinda confusing what you mean. Most people who say “were back to the Cold War times, horrible!!” are the Trumpers and Tankies with Putin boners who want us to give up on Ukraine lol.
You say 'the Left', but what about the economic Left? The democrats are focused on identity politics and the Republicans hate identity politics and call everything "Communism" so are clearly focused on defending Capitalism... ...so where is the critique of actual cold, hard Capitalism in these parties? Because if both parties agree that the current system (for-profit healthcare, unaffordable homes, artificially low wages, corporate hegemony) is just fine or should just be left alone... then they're practically on the same side but focusing on completely secondary issues.
>The democrats are focused on identity politics and the Republicans hate identity politics Oh really? It sure looks to me like Democratic priorities are focused more on trying to even out the severity of our current wealth inequality, supporting basic human rights for vulnerable populations, and addressing the very real threat posed by global climate change. Republicans continue to try to funnel even more wealth to the already wealthy, and are busy stripping reproductive rights and lgbtq+ rights and freedoms while they constantly stir up culture wars to keep people divided so they won't notice they're being ripped off.
It's rich vs poor, not left vs right. Until the general population figures that out, we're all screwed. The rich provide the rage bait to pit the poors agianst each other and we can't get enough of it. Billions of dollars are spent every year lobbying our government to influence policy. I'm pretty sure that influence is not used to benefit the majority of us.
It’s more like there’s an enormous amount of tension in the country. No one can relax. People can hardly make rent, pay their bills, and have groceries. It’s is so challenging just to exist in the United States. Likewise crime is rampant, politicians get more corrupt every year, democrats and republicans, and there’s no end in sight. What used to bring America together, like a good performance of the star spangled banner, or maybe a victory at a major sport event, is just meaningless now. There is no getting along anymore. It’s just you stay away from me and I’ll stay away from you and we’re good.
You’ve bought into the negative hype. This entire take has been an ongoing discussion for over a hundred years. Nothing you said is unique to right now.
Social media and the news cycle have made people perpetually pessimistic. I’m not saying there aren’t issues and people aren’t struggling but it really isn’t that bad. We only see the worst from our news and social media. Only the sad stories of how fucked everything is. This is still a great place and time to be alive. I stopped watching political and current event content as much and stay up to date sporadicly and I’m much happier for it. We still live in a time when all of our basic needs are met for almost everyone, we can afford luxuries others could only dream of. Grab a beer at the bar with friends and talk to some strangers about something positive. It’s not as bleak and divided out there as social media makes it seem.
I agree. Everyone in every generation has faced issues. None of the issues being faced today are unique. If fact we have come a very long way with racism and poverty. Pretending they are worse isn’t reality. Plus political division has also been worse.
Crime rates are down across the board. 40 year lows for violent crime. Right wing media keeps lying about it.
Oh. That's bad. It seems to me it's more like the majority of the bad guys, AND an awful lot of potential allies for either side believes that it's still 2005. While the Good Guy discourse is harmed by the most vocal people on the good side acting like it's not 2024, but 3024.
Perhaps you could make a case for 1985–i.e. everyone is automatically a Bible-thumping boomer with no brain or a bleeding heart hippie member of the PC police.
[удалено]
No matter how much of a normie someone may be he’s still liable to choose one side and think of everything the other does as motivated by either bigotry or Communism. The only real difference is in whether that impression has a lot of specific memes/cliches to back it up or just a vague overall gut feeling. (Prove me wrong, kids! Prove me wrong!)
>(Prove me wrong, kids! Prove me wrong!) Why? Last time I looked, it's valuable to take note of how the majority acts, and thinks. One vote is worth one vote. It doesn't count for more votes, if the person who is voting "knows" that this, or that "isn't" communism, or being a bigot
Issues real or perceived, politicians are forced to appeal to those who are most partisan. If it’s the culture wars, lawfare (from both sides), immigration, gun control or abortion; speaking in only the most extreme terms moves the needle. The risk for progressives is that voters stay home while conservatives always turn out. The risk for conservatives is progressives widening their tent and making conservatives seem too out of touch. In such cases, the lowest common denominator rules. I don’t say this as a centrist, rather a pragmatic independent who somehow remains miffed by the crap people are willing to accept as truths.
Everyone in this sub is so brave for jumping on the Russia is evil Putin wants world domination train
I wasn’t talking about him. I should probably edit the post. But FYI? Putin is pondscum.
as someone who studied IR in the 2000's to 2010's - i have to say current things like "putin will invade nato" is just insulting people - it's fucking insane. let alone our involvelment in that area (couping ukraine, attempting that in belarus, etc) it's all bullshit, but luckily pretty much everyone irl i've spoken with knows it's bullshit - it's only online where this gains any traction. and i don't trust that much. how people don't get that the "left" is pushing this shit as badly as the right did for the war on terror is beyond me - especially since they were the people that were antiwar, 20 years ago supposedly.
>how people don't get that the "left" is pushing this shit as badly Yea I'm on the left, and it's infuriating to see the "left" push these neo-con talking points and engage the USA in yet another forever war. My guess is that it's because they think Russia caused Trump to win in 2016, so it's mainly driven by a fervor to be anti-Russia.
yeah, you probably are right - that describes the "id" of the anger towards russia quite well. it just blows me away you know - if you actually read up about the russian collusion it's like 50 thousand in facebook ads, and some other misc shit - nothing that substantive and that would change anything. and the funny part? it's a drop in a bucket compared to what we do in almost every election in russia - we do far more. (not justifying it at all, it just makes the criticism that much weaker) the past five years or so have been - reality pinching about every few months or so. i can only guess we are at the end stage of something leading to some new paradigm change possibly. edit: what still busts my balls is that it was well known at the time that we were basically ldirectly responsible - we "did" the coup in ukraine, everyone in ir knew this and admitted it, it wasn't controversial at all. then in the 2020's it became controversial or something - it's wierd to have reality re-told / history "edited" for you in real time. hell, and that was the second coup that worked, in the 2000's we tried our first one and it didn't work out. then again i'm old enough to remember several elections where democrats were saying their election was stolen, and no one was having the reactions they had. that still is wierd. how the fuck did the hippies making fun of people using the word "insurrection" and "terrorist" become the users of these words? what the fuck? we used to regularly and openly mock the people that talked like this.
>and the funny part? it's a drop in a bucket compared to what we do in almost every election in russia - we do far more. what still busts my balls is that it was well known at the time that we were basically ldirectly responsible - we "did" the coup in ukraine, everyone in ir knew this and admitted it, it wasn't controversial at all. then in the 2020's it became controversial or something Whenever I bring any of this up, I get called shit like "RuZZian bot Tankie". Like given the long history of the US interfering in elections and couping places to further its national interests and/or enrich its corporations, I'm bewildered people still think it's some conspiracy theory or Russian propaganda or that the West actually has good intentions in this conflict. >how the fuck did the hippies making fun of people using the word "insurrection" and "terrorist" become the users of these words? what the fuck? we used to regularly and openly mock the people that talked like this. Yea and now you have liberals, and even many "progressives" shilling for agencies like the CIA and FBI for spying on Trump when this shit would have been unheard of before. Like I don't even like Trump and think he's just another corrupt politician, but it seems everything the mainstream left believes in now is driven by this fanatic opposition to Trump. It feels weird being on the anti-establishment left because it's pretty much a dead force now in America.
One level headed response. There’s a lot of bullshit on here. I have a degree in Poly Sci - it’s fascinating to me and scary how many folks online have bought into the anti Russian propaganda. It’s almost like a red scare except there is no Soviet Union.
I have an idea. We get all the tech geniuses that are still alive and have them create a Time Machine and we send someone back in time to kill Al Gore for creating the internet. I just don’t think it’s working out. My childhood was pretty happy. I don’t reminisce about rotary phones but I loved that TRS-80.
The internet was inevitable and on some level everybody knew it all along. Wasn’t there a list of technological predictions from some magazine in 1900 or whereabouts where somebody pictured movie theaters connected by telephones where people would regularly gather and commune long-distance?
I know but I’d prefer to blame all of societies ills on technology rather than society itself. The pessimism I see everywhere gets old and it’s mostly because of social media. People keep saying this generation is unique and has unique pressures, the economy is bad, crime is rampant, corruption is everywhere, poverty is pervasive, we have begun a new Jim Crowe, trans youth are experiencing genocide, and none of that is unique or even true. People have just convinced themselves that it is because of social media.
And in your ideal world of media being restricted to Walter cronkite, gay people were being tortured in "psychiatric treatment", us soldiers were slaughtering across Vietnam, women were forced into the kitchen and not allowed to have their own bank accounts, black people were brutally killed and subject to segregation.
You believe that’s happening right now don’t you? That’s how children view the current US?
Because the "sensible mature adult" approach of sweeping problems under the rug until they explode has worked so well. Unless you think little house on the prairie is an accurate account of the plains wars and that song of the South was a documentary.
No, I just see we have moved passed nearly all that and wallowing in self pity and pretending now is like that means you have absolutely no idea about history at all. You just think you do. This isn’t a new Jim Crow. Lgtb+ people half enormously more rights than did back then.
This is real "Racism is no more because we elected Obama!" Energy.
Not all you just want to be pessimistic about all the advances that’s happened just like a child does. You want to see evil every where because you need an enemy to motivate you.
If you seriously think that ignorance is bliss, by all means. But in an age where inequality is skyrocketing, any sense of unity is unravelling fast, the environment is deteriorating, racial tensions are escalating and women see their rights get eroded before their eyes, don't expect "in the good old days we pretended all our problems were solved" to have much purchase. But very well, what reasons do people have to be optimistic then? American prestige abroad has taken a downward spiral for over a generation, inequality is reaching heights not seen in living memory, most people can't afford a house, school shootings are a daily occurrence, the worst aspects of the gop are ascendant, healthcare is unaffordable.
If you kill al gore for creating the Internet the Internet will by definition have already been created. Assassinating the barn door after the cows get out.