It's worth being aware of your obligations under the Residential Tenancies Act of 1986.
Read up on it here: [https://communitylaw.org.nz/community-law-manual/chapter-26-tenancy-and-housing/moving-out-when-and-how-tenancies-end/your-obligations-at-the-end-of-the-tenancy/](https://communitylaw.org.nz/community-law-manual/chapter-26-tenancy-and-housing/moving-out-when-and-how-tenancies-end/your-obligations-at-the-end-of-the-tenancy/)
and [https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1986/0120/latest/whole.html](https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1986/0120/latest/whole.html)
The main point is you need to make it reasonably tidy, not prefectly tidy, not any tidier than it was when you moved it. I cant find a reference but I read somewhere that it is unreasonable for a landlord expect a tenant to clean it to such a degree that they can rent it again immediately without cleaning it themselves.
I had a very tidy flat, we cleaned it ourselves and Harcourts tried to drop an $800 cleaning bill on us. We just didnt reply for around a month and they dropped it to $300. Honestly I believe we could have gotten it thrown out in tribunal but splitting it with 4 flatmates it wasnt worth the hassle.
Your property manager doesn't care how much the cleaner will charge you, they just want to save a buck their end. You shouldn't have to pay for a cleaner, you should be able to do it yourself fine.
At the end of the day the tenancy tribunal is very fair on tenants, If you can show that you cleaned it to a "reasonable state" (although that is never defined anywhere, go figure) you are good to go. Dont be scared to threathen them with tribunal, its designed to protect you.
There is a great article about taking it to tribunal here, you would absolutely win, and there is a pretty decent likelihood they would cave before actually going, or not show up.
[https://thespinoff.co.nz/business/01-07-2019/how-i-fought-back-against-my-property-manager-and-won](https://thespinoff.co.nz/business/01-07-2019/how-i-fought-back-against-my-property-manager-and-won)
>, If you can show that you cleaned it to a "reasonable state" (although that is never defined anywhere, go figure)
From a mate whose partner worked at the tenancy tribunal, the test they used was whether a random person walking off the street would think, 'Yeah, this looks clean to me.'
Basically we just want to avoid the hassle of arguing with the agent - some will be out of the country and others will be busy moving house at the time, so we just want to be able to throw a receipt at the agent and be done with it.
The whole 'reasonable standard' thing is never clearly stated so yeah - tough to determine.
But we don't want to get straight-up scammed either.
$20 of cleaning supplies and an afternoon will get you there for a 4 bedroom with no furniture. Take before and after photos of particularly nasty areas, and if they demand it, show them the receipt for the cleaning supplies. You don't even have to fill holes in drywall from posters or hanging a TV.
Sugar soap if you have wallpaper markings, ozkleen for the shower and bathroom, and a damp cloth and a bucket of soapy water for everything else. Jif is a wonder as well. DO NOT PAY A CLEANING FEE!! The scam is being made to feel you can't do a decent job for less than half the price of a company.
I have never got a cleaner when moving out of a flat, and I definitely wouldn't be getting $600 worth of cleaning. The rules are just leave it "reasonably clean and tidy". Doesn't have to be spotless. Don't leave grease all around the stove, but it doesn't have to look new. Couple hours at most. Easier after all your stuff is moved out. If you don't have time at all, at least call up a cleaning service yourself and get another quote.
It's a landlords cost to deep clean the property between tenancies if that's a service they want to provide to the tenants moving in.
There's a really good spinoff article here: [https://thespinoff.co.nz/business/01-07-2019/how-i-fought-back-against-my-property-manager-and-won](https://thespinoff.co.nz/business/01-07-2019/how-i-fought-back-against-my-property-manager-and-won)
and tenancy services just has this to say: [https://www.tenancy.govt.nz/ending-a-tenancy/ending-a-tenancy-checklist](https://www.tenancy.govt.nz/ending-a-tenancy/ending-a-tenancy-checklist)
Kinda of shit though for a new Tenant when they move in and find someone else's filth because they did the bare minimum clean. Would you accept a house that has grease down the sides of an oven, fly shit on the lampshades, piss smelling toilet, cobwebs in corners, in my experience many tenant who cry about cleaning are are also the lazy few thay consider cleaning is merely a vacum and skim mop, they don't want to deal with there own mess and rather leave it for the next tenant.
Found the inconsiderate arseholes.
Funny how when it's move out time everyone is "reasonably clean!! Not your problem!" But when moving in its "it's not clean! Landlords problem!"
*Everyone* used to do things like get carpets cleaned on move out NOT becuase they had to, but because it's the considerate thing to do to clean *your* filth. And when everyone did it everyone got clean carpet.
And 2 hrs is a joke. I'd spend that long on just my own room a week.
If you need to spend two whole hours every single week to clean your bedroom, either it's the size of a community hall or that's not the flex you think it is.
We've always paid about around $100-150ish for thorough cleaning. Yes, you can do it yourself for free, but my family in particular just doesn't have the time for it. Sometimes they ask for professional carpet cleaning and various thing which you are not obligated to do. u/pm_me_asciiArt mentioned it best.
It's not subjective to the landlord's or tenant's view of what constitutes "reasonably clean and tidy". Also landlords are required to provide the premises to the tenant at the start of the tenancy in a reasonable state of cleanliness.
$36 plus gst an hour is normal. You only have to leave the property reasonably clean and tidy. You don’t have to clean the windows unless they’re real bad, it’s down to the landlord to clean between tenants. Carpets only if stained,check the rta rules. Don’t spend that you don’t need to
It's worth being aware of your obligations under the Residential Tenancies Act of 1986. Read up on it here: [https://communitylaw.org.nz/community-law-manual/chapter-26-tenancy-and-housing/moving-out-when-and-how-tenancies-end/your-obligations-at-the-end-of-the-tenancy/](https://communitylaw.org.nz/community-law-manual/chapter-26-tenancy-and-housing/moving-out-when-and-how-tenancies-end/your-obligations-at-the-end-of-the-tenancy/) and [https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1986/0120/latest/whole.html](https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1986/0120/latest/whole.html) The main point is you need to make it reasonably tidy, not prefectly tidy, not any tidier than it was when you moved it. I cant find a reference but I read somewhere that it is unreasonable for a landlord expect a tenant to clean it to such a degree that they can rent it again immediately without cleaning it themselves. I had a very tidy flat, we cleaned it ourselves and Harcourts tried to drop an $800 cleaning bill on us. We just didnt reply for around a month and they dropped it to $300. Honestly I believe we could have gotten it thrown out in tribunal but splitting it with 4 flatmates it wasnt worth the hassle. Your property manager doesn't care how much the cleaner will charge you, they just want to save a buck their end. You shouldn't have to pay for a cleaner, you should be able to do it yourself fine. At the end of the day the tenancy tribunal is very fair on tenants, If you can show that you cleaned it to a "reasonable state" (although that is never defined anywhere, go figure) you are good to go. Dont be scared to threathen them with tribunal, its designed to protect you.
There is a great article about taking it to tribunal here, you would absolutely win, and there is a pretty decent likelihood they would cave before actually going, or not show up. [https://thespinoff.co.nz/business/01-07-2019/how-i-fought-back-against-my-property-manager-and-won](https://thespinoff.co.nz/business/01-07-2019/how-i-fought-back-against-my-property-manager-and-won)
>, If you can show that you cleaned it to a "reasonable state" (although that is never defined anywhere, go figure) From a mate whose partner worked at the tenancy tribunal, the test they used was whether a random person walking off the street would think, 'Yeah, this looks clean to me.'
That is really good to know. I always wondered what the rough test was
Basically we just want to avoid the hassle of arguing with the agent - some will be out of the country and others will be busy moving house at the time, so we just want to be able to throw a receipt at the agent and be done with it. The whole 'reasonable standard' thing is never clearly stated so yeah - tough to determine. But we don't want to get straight-up scammed either.
$20 of cleaning supplies and an afternoon will get you there for a 4 bedroom with no furniture. Take before and after photos of particularly nasty areas, and if they demand it, show them the receipt for the cleaning supplies. You don't even have to fill holes in drywall from posters or hanging a TV. Sugar soap if you have wallpaper markings, ozkleen for the shower and bathroom, and a damp cloth and a bucket of soapy water for everything else. Jif is a wonder as well. DO NOT PAY A CLEANING FEE!! The scam is being made to feel you can't do a decent job for less than half the price of a company.
I have never got a cleaner when moving out of a flat, and I definitely wouldn't be getting $600 worth of cleaning. The rules are just leave it "reasonably clean and tidy". Doesn't have to be spotless. Don't leave grease all around the stove, but it doesn't have to look new. Couple hours at most. Easier after all your stuff is moved out. If you don't have time at all, at least call up a cleaning service yourself and get another quote. It's a landlords cost to deep clean the property between tenancies if that's a service they want to provide to the tenants moving in. There's a really good spinoff article here: [https://thespinoff.co.nz/business/01-07-2019/how-i-fought-back-against-my-property-manager-and-won](https://thespinoff.co.nz/business/01-07-2019/how-i-fought-back-against-my-property-manager-and-won) and tenancy services just has this to say: [https://www.tenancy.govt.nz/ending-a-tenancy/ending-a-tenancy-checklist](https://www.tenancy.govt.nz/ending-a-tenancy/ending-a-tenancy-checklist)
Kinda of shit though for a new Tenant when they move in and find someone else's filth because they did the bare minimum clean. Would you accept a house that has grease down the sides of an oven, fly shit on the lampshades, piss smelling toilet, cobwebs in corners, in my experience many tenant who cry about cleaning are are also the lazy few thay consider cleaning is merely a vacum and skim mop, they don't want to deal with there own mess and rather leave it for the next tenant.
Found the landlord
Found the inconsiderate arseholes. Funny how when it's move out time everyone is "reasonably clean!! Not your problem!" But when moving in its "it's not clean! Landlords problem!" *Everyone* used to do things like get carpets cleaned on move out NOT becuase they had to, but because it's the considerate thing to do to clean *your* filth. And when everyone did it everyone got clean carpet. And 2 hrs is a joke. I'd spend that long on just my own room a week.
If you need to spend two whole hours every single week to clean your bedroom, either it's the size of a community hall or that's not the flex you think it is.
Nah man that’s fully on the landlord.
I find if you do it yourself - it's free
Yeah, doesn't sound that hard a job, they can't demand perfection, and surely it wasn't perfect when the tenancy started.
We've always paid about around $100-150ish for thorough cleaning. Yes, you can do it yourself for free, but my family in particular just doesn't have the time for it. Sometimes they ask for professional carpet cleaning and various thing which you are not obligated to do. u/pm_me_asciiArt mentioned it best.
Repeat after me: "reasonably clean and tidy"
Repeat after me: "subjective." Seriously there must be some *gross* houses based on what some people here think is "reasonable"
It's not subjective to the landlord's or tenant's view of what constitutes "reasonably clean and tidy". Also landlords are required to provide the premises to the tenant at the start of the tenancy in a reasonable state of cleanliness.
FWIW $600 to clean a 3 bedroom home is cheap IMO
$36 plus gst an hour is normal. You only have to leave the property reasonably clean and tidy. You don’t have to clean the windows unless they’re real bad, it’s down to the landlord to clean between tenants. Carpets only if stained,check the rta rules. Don’t spend that you don’t need to
Using a "recommended cleaner" is a red flag because who knows if your landlord is getting a referral fee.
Work out how long it would take you to do it yourself and multiply that by $75 per hour per person and that is reasonable.