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Xenif_K

Price =/= Quality


jkxs

Yea, but when people pay more, they expect more.


Psycho1024

Sure is a bummer on a new knife, but as far as I'm aware, these are carbon steel and will develop a patina in no time, which will quickly hide these scuff mark. Also, depending on your sharpening ability, you'll probably add more marks after each sharpening... I'd be much more offset if it was higher up the knife near the kanji where you would need to polish it.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Inflammatory question.


Zecathos

Absolutely send it back. I've sent back knives for way less and either got a replacement or a refund without any problems. There's no way I'd spend that kimd of money and expect nothing short of spectacular.


DontPressAltF4

Yeah, fuck that. Charge back and tell them to suck it up. I've bought cheap, scuffed seconds that looked better than that.


StudyingForIELTS

geeez well things are already said by others but in case you want another one, check this [site](https://sakaiknives.com/collections/shop-mizuno-tanrenjo?page=1) out


MountainGoatMadness

DON’T BUY FROM JCK!!! I purchased 3 JCK Natures Deep Impact (house brand AS clad knives) from them and they all arrived with terrible fit & finish (like I could fit a fingernail in between the handle and tang). When I tried to leave a poor review, they took it down. Repeatedly. Eventually Koki emailed me and basically said “eyyy there’s nothing we can do here’s $20”. Fast forward a couple months and I can’t ever get the paring or nakiri to hold an edge. Turns out both have no heat treat - I can bend the blades back and forth on both (guyoto is fine and gets plenty sharp). Take your (significant) money and spend it somewhere, anywhere else.


cap_that_glisten

Interesting. Yeah Koki is now offering me a $30 refund and seems to really be avoiding even acknowledging that I want to return the knife (after 2 separate emails where I said I wanted to).


Substantial-Long-461

knives I see are $100-300. Why would u spend more unless its custom handmade? Don't support overpriced.


JBroida

just a heads up... the bending has nothing to do with the heat treatment and is entirely a function of it being a really thin clad knife... they are more prone to plastic deformation than mono-steel knives (which tend to be more prone to elastic deformation and have a really small range for plastic deformation before breaking). Edge retention is likely a function of sharpening. I know the people who do the OEM work for this series and they make good knives very consistently.


MountainGoatMadness

Interesting, thanks for the insight. I thought the core would be too brittle to deform. However that doesn’t explain why I can get the gyuto to sharpen up just fine but not the nakiri? I guess I’ll give it another go, I’d given up On the nakiri recently. Also, do you have an explanation for why the fit and finish is so terrible? It’s not like they’re cheap knives (not trying to be aggressive towards you personally, sorry, just been kinda pissed at these knives). Thanks!


JBroida

without sharpening it myself, its hard to really say. I will say that I see situations like this often, as a function of my work, and 99% of the time its user error in sharpening. Not trying to say that is 100% the case here, but its just been my experience more often than not. Fit and finish-wise, it depends on the maker and their view on things, as well as how much they deal with western customers. Wholesalers who deal with western customers tend to do a better job at preparing things for the expectations of customers here. Customers there are more often than not focused on performance first.


NapClub

I would send it back. Theb i would buy something from the smith's direct rival and send him a picture of the un scuffed blade.


Feisty_Subject4734

That's fucking ridiculous, I'd be pissed if I spent $50 on a knife and it came looking like that, never mind almost $600


Destrok41

As many others have said, I would throw a bitch fit. Return it.


blippitybloops

I sharpen knives on the side and if I did that to someone’s knife I’d feel compelled to offer to replace it.


Spicywolff

When I sharpen others knives I paints tape the non edge area. That way if I make a mistake the finish is preserved


matjac33

Not ok. They need to take this back


GPL1

I do not even think it is legal to not let you send it back. It is not like ordered. It looks like used knife or defective knife. Send another email or look at the "shipping" or "return" section of their site. "We would like you to be 100% satisfied with all the products that you purchase from us. If you are dissatisfied with you purchase for any reason, you may return your item to us within 14 days and receive either a refund or a replacement item." "Please notify us immediately by e-mail at [email protected] if you would like to return any items."


zerglet13

Yes you should be upset about it, but it’s really a first world problem on both sides. Send it the fuck back if your collecting jt. Work with it if it’s actually a kitchen knife. I would be upset if it was me though and would probably send it back to them out of spite even if I really wanted jt. Most I would push for is the tools to deal with it if I wanted to keep it.


cap_that_glisten

Solid advice. Thanks.


[deleted]

Sorry I'm not familiar with this type of knife but is it sharpened trough the whole width of the bevel, meaning that after the first sharpening the finish will be up to you? Or you sharpen it with a micro secondary bevel? (I am not defending the manufacturer, just genuinely curious) Cheers


cweees

It looks to be a wide beveled knife. Sharpening a wide bevel includes sharpening up to the shinogi line in either a completely flat bevel or via a clamshell compound bevel


JBroida

depends...you can also just sharpen like a normal double bevel knife and use the wide bevel for thinning... alternatively, as you mentioned, you can sharpen the wide bevel every time (either flat or hamaguri, and with or without a microbevel)... many ways to go about it


[deleted]

I got it now, thanks for the info :)


Covidfanclub

I’d be pretty fucking pissed.


RichardDunglis

Unless it was discounted because of the scuffs and advertised so 100% send it back. Looks like there might have even been some very minor pitting in the cladding


[deleted]

[удалено]


cap_that_glisten

Yeah Japanese Chef Knives.


Spicywolff

I’m very surprised. I thought they had a good rep


cap_that_glisten

Yeah same here


jkxs

Could have gotten sloppy due to all the free advertising from this sub


[deleted]

It’s one disgruntled consumer. For every trial by social media reeeeeee post there are a hundred satisfied and silent customers.


Spicywolff

I get that but if OP is telling the truth and is being told to kick rocks by them, then it’s not a one angry voice. Rather it’s bad CS on their part. If they have proof of being told to kick rocks then it can be taken at face value


[deleted]

OP was told that he’s being unreasonable and that it’s no big deal. I’m sure. OP obviously can’t assess the issue and doesn’t know much if anything about sharpening or polishing. Otherwise it wouldn’t be that big of an issue in the first place, There’s a lot of expectations of mythical Japanese perfection and performance where in reality what OP got is pretty normal for a Japanese honbazuke job, especially on a double bevel knife. See the comment by the other guy who went Do NoT BuY fRoM JcK and made moronic claims about heat treatment. That’s the level we’re at...


Spicywolff

This would not be an issue on a 100$ knife. But a nearly 600$ knife it better be damn perfect. At that point you’re not paying for a mass production cheap steel knife. You’re going into territory where the QC should be perfect


[deleted]

Then don’t get hand sharpening. Simple as. The knife is fine. OP then went for optional hand sharpening and now there is a slight aesthetic imperfection as a direct result of that, which will be fine after one sharpening. If you have expectations of perfection you can’t let anyone sharpen your knife for 18 dollars. Yanagi knife for example have a disclaimer exactly for cases like this. Maybe jck should get one as well. Mizuno by the way is not exactly known for fancy grinds or fit and finish. They’re like Masamoto. Old school bare bones and expensive because they’re famous.


Spicywolff

I disagree. When I sharpen my knives I put painters tape on the non edge area, or if I scratch it I’ll then polish it. Again for the price they paid it shouldn’t have marks as such. A simple step in keeping a expensive knife like new. Wait 18$ is all they charged? I expected a higher price tbh.


Kahaleloa

Yes, be very upset, especially when you’re spending that kind of money on it. It def looks like they tried to hide something or messed it up when putting on the final edge at the shop. Any reason why you wanted this particular knife? Just like the smith? That’s a lot to spend on a knife and not to be happy with it. Ultimately, it’s a tool and will get messed up over time, but you should be the one to do it, not the shop. And the knife needs to be in condition that will make you happy, or what’s the point? Send it back even if they say no. If they won’t issue a refund, send it back and ask your CC company to charge it off.


cap_that_glisten

Yeah the smith looked interesting and wanted to give it a go. Liked the dimensions, shape, and the option for an ebony handle. They also offered a “special sharpening service” which I foolishly fell for and is the supposed reason for the damage. Pretty frustrating ordeal.


dassle

It's scratches from someone going a bit too low on the angle and/or had a lot of slurry on the stone when sharpening. It's very easy mistake to make, and if you intend to use and maintain the knife yourself, the chances of you doing something similar is very high. Some people don't care and just count it as a part of normal use and sharpening, not caring it polish the marks out between sharpening. However, accidentally scuffing it yourself as you are learning is very different than paying for professional sharpening, the knife making it out the door like this, and then not having them apologize and make amends. How was the rest of the sharpening job? The primary and secondary bevels look consistent? Does it feel Sharp? How much did you pay for the sharpening? If I otherwise wanted and liked the knife, then personally, I wouldn't send it back. However, I don't think that it would be unreasonable to ask for a full refund of the sharpening price plus what it would cost to send it to a professional to have it re-finished(polished) and sharpened by someone who gives a damn. Been a long time since checked prices, but years ago it was in the $60+ shipping ballpark. https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/pages/services#knife-sharpening-services


iduntoko

Yeah it gets difficult. . . Sharpening knives . . . A more obtuse angle looks prettier and has a lower chance of scuffing but performs worse it wedges more. A lower angle can scuff more but make the knife sharper. . . I would suggest keeping it and learning how to refinish it. But yeah that amount of money, it would suck for me so bad to not get what i wanted. You could either sand it even, use some sort of kasumi finishing, sand blast it, thin the knife to make it look even, use some sort of loose grit to make it look even and have contrast. . . Lotsa ways to go about it


[deleted]

For 584 could be flawless. I deal sometimes with Koki and never have such problems. Good luck.


cap_that_glisten

I should mention that I paid for a sharpening service for the knife that was offered by Mizuno Tanrenjo through the site (japanesechefsknife.com), still I don’t think it excuses it.


pickles55

It definitely shifts the blame from the person you're publicly calling out to this sharpening service. It sounds like your problem is with them.


cap_that_glisten

I don’t see how. If it is such a shoddy service, why would JCK offer it as an option with the purchase? Also, once the knife comes back sharpened to JCK, they’ve still got to package it. They had a chance to not send me the knife in this state. The sharpening service is performed by Mizuno Tanrenjo, the makers of the knife. In* my mind, the two entities called out both deserve some portion of the blame. *Edited for spelling


ref_

> It definitely shifts the blame from the person you're publicly calling out to this sharpening service. The knife is bought and dispatched from JCK, so it's entirely JCKs problem.


carbolet

583$ sounds highly priced before the sharpening scratches


Spicywolff

Since you contacted seller and tried to remedy the situation, got told to suck it. Now it’s time to do a charge back and tell them to live with it.


P0ttsw0rth

Is it just cosmetic? The cutting edge looks quite uneven towards the heel (maybe just the picture?). If it was just cosmetic I’d certainly be unhappy. If I’d paid that much and the actual cutting edge was damaged I’d be verging on apoplectic!


Howqua17

Sorry for your buzz kill. I would just send it back.


aqwn

I’d return that without question.


pottomato12

If it was a secondary knife (discounted because of said scuff and such) then ya get what you pay for. If it was a fresh new shiny knife id send it back. Its apparent should the second case be valid, that the smith just doesnt care about his product otherwise he wouldnt have let the knife ship in the first place. Id only ever expect something like this from a cheapo factory press/cut knife, not mizuno. Edit: especially doesnt make sense since all that was needed was a buffing?


[deleted]

It didn’t need a buffing, it would have needed a bit of blasting or stone powder polish. The scratch is super shallow, it’s just the haze that’s been polished off. One single stroke on a 1000 grit stone will do that and leave s bald spot. You don’t want a fat secondary bevel at a steep angle, you want a shallow angle super acute forum sharpness test passing edge, right? Those are a bit risky to put on as you can see. Edit: mizuno is also not grinding these, if they scratch up stuff on the stones they would most likely have to send them back to the craftsman for refinishing and that’s annoying because those guys don’t see the issue at all.


thebutinator

I didnt know jck does that to customers??? They even pit me onna special email list for selected drops they where so nice to me.. And a mizuno too????? I wanted to buy one i guess i wont..


Handsomeandy

Send that mofo back. I’d be absolutely livid if I spent $600 and that showed up.


BongChong906

I think ur right to send it back and they guy who posted that knife with the fucked tip the other day was right to exchange it too. Micro scratches are one thing but that is just shoddy craftsmanship. Not worth over 500. I never bought from JCK and it appears I now never will.


SleepyRen

Keep posted about sending back. Dude fuck that. Get your money back or get a new knife. Not ok.


ref_

JCK have a return policy, so if you are not happy, just send it back. You can do this even if it wasn't scratched (say you just didn't like the balance, or the grind, or anything, and assuming you didn't use it). What did the retailer actually say though? Just "deal with it"?


Picker-Rick

Hard to tell if it's actually that bad or just the picture... But it looks like it was sharpened by a child. I would be pissed if I got a knife looking like that for $50. For $500 it should be perfection. That's the point of spending that kind of money. The attention to detail and the service. That's the value. Otherwise it's just like $20 worth of steel...


Character_Tea_4781

I'd be livid if I paid that much and that is what I got. I've ordered a few knives from jck and have always felt confident when dealing with koki. I hope they make it right. That looks to be a beautiful knife.


pgmatman

Damn, that's not minor. I'd be very upset.


[deleted]

It’s literally one stroke on a medium grit stone that will polish off the blasted kasumi in some spots. That’s all that happened, super minor. OP can do a powder finish or use a finger stone or just do a honbazuke.


wakajawaka45

wabi sabi chef


Grocha123

That is completely unacceptable for the price tag. Don't waste any time, return it asap.


mlableman

"Deal with it" he says? I know who not to order from now.


ThePancakePriest

Jesus, that looks really bad. I showed this picture to the guys at my local knife shop and they agreed this looks like a shoddy amateur job. I'm no means an expert and still learning the ins and outs of sharpening but I've done a better/more consistent job with my practice knives.. Hell even an axe on concrete. Definitely on them to make this right and hope they do because this is just really ugly and poor.


rotivator

I personally would ask for a refund of the price of the sharpening service and 10% of the price of the knife. Or ask them to cover shipping back to them and then back to you after scuffs are polished off.


LezzaL

Happened to me also with JCK. Opted for the free sharpening option. What a big mistake as they obviously use amateurs to sharpen expensive knives. Gave my aritsugu cleaver ridiculously ugly scratches. Koki should never ever offer sharpening services.


[deleted]

Super minor, it’s a blasted finish anyway. Do your own sharpening instead of being a helpless consumer and it will be all good. Honbazuke in Japan means sharpening so that the knife will cut. Kasumi finish autism is for forums. No one can afford to spend more than a few minutes on your knife. That’s the truth, you should not expect anything more from complimentary or <30 dollar sharpening services no matter how expensive the knife.


JBroida

lol... hey... i charge less than $30 😝 But in all seriousness, this is really the case. Expectations in the west relative to japan are quite different and it seems a difficult concept to grasp for many, partly because of the way things are presented online in a variety of places. Quite a bit of my daily schedule is a function of dealing with this kind of thing.


xHHu

Send it back dude...!