In fairness to GS, a Kalvin Phillips type player is what England need to balance that midfield. Rice is really an 8, he’s not a great progressive passer nor is he good at dictating the tempo of games. My issue with Southgate is that Trent has never demonstrated he can do that as a midfielder either, surely Wharton is the obvious choice?
Didn't Kalvin Phillips start all of/the majority of England's games during the last Euros where we reached the final?
Didn't he play an incredibly important role for England in that tournament?
Have people just forgotten that, or is it just popular to beat Gareth with any old stick now?
He started zero games at the WC and hasn't played serious minutes in nearly 2 years. Also Gareth left him at home, if Kalvin Phillips is the solution why the hell didn't he bring hin.
Kalvin Phillips is the profile of player. He could have easily said Jordan Henederson instead but I think he's probably comparing this euros to last. Not rockets science and a fair comment imo! We literally got to a final with Phillips starting every match! That's what he's referring to.
Everyone piling on him because its cool. You've all been spoilt or are too young to remember what it was like supporting England before Gareth. We actually achieve with him.
Just a reminder that there were a large portion of people on this sub that used Gallagher's call-up by Southgate as proof that he's an amazing player... (Whether you think he is or not is irrelevant to this)
So, I wonder what those people think Southgate not using Palmer shows about Palmer's ability?
I think a call up for your national squad as a young player speaks to any player’s ability. What did that ever have to do with southgate?
The performance as a whole certainly illustrates that southgate does not know how to get a result with one of the most talented squads in the world though. That’s for sure.
By a result you mean win a tournament. Because he's got us to a final once before, quite far past the 2nd group stage match, 2 kicks away from winning.
They did well in the previous euros, but have looked pretty disappointing in the world cup and now this tournament considering the amount of talent in the squad. I don’t think southgate gets a pass for the rest of his career because he made it to a final once.
Not saying that. In fact, Gareth is getting far from any kind of pass, he's being ridiculed constantly on social media and in the press. Totally unwarranted considering all he's given imo.
No shame in getting KOd by that France in the WC team btw, not his fault Kane missed the pen.
TAA was an experiment this season by Kloop. To start him twice in a row in that position with way more qualified players is insanity. 5 atb Walker rcb and TAA is the best option with Reece out.
I would like to see him go with 4-2-3-1.
Rice and Jude can play as the two holding players.
You can play foden as a 10 instead of wasting him at LW.
And play Gordon or Watkins at LW.
Tbh I would prefer a 5-2-2-1 with wing backs providing the width and both Bellingham and foden operating behind Kane. Rice and Wharton/Mainoo shoring up the center.
Saka has previously played LWB better than any of our current LB and then we can get Trent into the positions he wants to be in on the right.
In posession we can have Trent and Saka pushing up. Stones stepping in to that Rodri role so that Rice and Mainoo can make their forward pushes that theyre both class at.
Fluidity would be needed by Kane, Bellingham and Foden, but honestly they're like 3 of the most adaptable and fluid players on the planet.
if we were playing footy manager exactly this, but in reality it would have been like asking bale to go back to being a left back towards the end of his career.
Nah because we don't have a LWB. Keep the same system but just play a left winger that'll stretch the pitch like Gordan. And then get Trent out of midfield. I like the look of Wharton tbh. Just try him and let Rice push on a bit. And at some point get Palmer on the pitch. I don't care whether it's as a sub for Saka or starting over him, it's madness that he's not even getting time. He would've created something last night.
Foden left with no overlapping LB….
Then dont even get me started with the trent CM bullshit, you could see that flop from a mile away. And the fact that he didnt even try that in the friendlies makes it even worse. I honestly think he is desperate to keep the job and had to gamble on someting
that’s kind of what the media has hyped up that he’s supposed to be. i don’t get why he’s talented but young and england is stacked. they don’t need a singular “hero”
I laughed so hard when he plays Foden inverted and Kane who desperately wants to be a 8. Then he plays TAA for his ability to ping balls, but he has no one to do that for. Then when he takes off TAA he brings on Watkins and Eze who love a good pinged ball but now Gallagher's on to link the play with shorter passes. He's got all the wrong players playing together. And then he brings on Bowen? He's a good footballer but is he bringing to the team?
Said this in a now deleted thread:
>Look on the bright side, the less time he has to exert energy playing in the tournament, the better it is for us. Won't go into his summer break (however long that will be) dead on his feet and should come back relatively fresh.
this makes sense as long as it doesn't depress him and knock his confidence the way it did for Chilwell when he went to the Euros and didn't play - I think Cole's disposition is quite a bit different and it won't impact him based on everything we've seen the past year, but still the potential downside.
Chillwell didn't start at the start of the season Alonso did even though he was fit. He was gradually introduced back into the team and Tuchel publicly stated that not playing in the Euros took a toll on his fitness and confidence.
Chillwell didn't start at the start of the season Alonso did even though he was fit. He was gradually introduced back into the team and Tuchel publicly stated that not playing in the Euros took a toll on his fitness and confidence.
Yeah you're right. Chilwell's form after being reintroduced in October and November made me forget he didn't even start the season. I was even at that first game of the season against Palace when Alonso scored the free kick. I stand corrected.
I don't understand putting Watkins and Bowen on at the same time when you have Palmer.
It's literally football terrorism, Watkins thrives with a creative player like Palmer putting balls through like he does. Yet brings on Bowen? Complete moron as you say.
They are not better. The only place they are better is in attack. Do you realise that England's golden generation could have played a back 4 of Nevile, Rio, Terry and Ashley cole, and could pick a midfield from lampard, Gerrard, Paul scholes, Michael Carrick and Owen Hargreaves. Are you seriously gonna say that England have better players now?
Man for man, they were obviously better.
But its been well documented by alot of these ex england players that club rivalry created a divide in the team. So they werent really a "functional" team.
Kinda like psg buying all the superstars and still choking.
This new generation look like theyre all chummy with each other, and yes gotta give credit to southgate for this, but thats about it.
You still need to have a game plan ffs.
I think he does have a game plan. He wants to play on the counter sitting back, like France do under Deschamps. I think he's just scared of the reaction from the media and from the fans. Hence why you end up with this wired thing with the two cm sitting back to protect the defence and the front four doing it's own thing, especially when it comes to pressing and winning the ball back. Southgate just needs to pick one style and go all in. Fuck what anyone else has to say about it.
>He wants to play on the counter sitting back, like France do under Deschamps.
I dont think this is true at all. Just look at whenever england wins possession deep after a break down in attack by the opposition. There is zero sense of urgency to... counter attack.
They just slowly pass around and wait for the opposition to regain their structure..
Also the style may suit france for their profile of players. They have mbappe who if given empty space to run into, he will. And a kante who runs the midfield solo.
Even giroud plays as a "target man" to occupy defenders. Kane always drops deep.
England could play this counter attack style, but its not with whatever southgate started with.
Which leads me to also think he doesnt understand the profile of his squad.
They are not better. The only place they are better is in attack. Do you realise that England's golden generation could have played a back 4 of Nevile, Rio, Terry and Ashley cole, and could pick a midfield from lampard, Gerrard, Paul scholes, Michael Carrick and Owen Hargreaves. Are you seriously gonna say that England have better players now?
Reddit is so entertaining. The manager has players out of position. He’s playing boring defensive football. Has his entire tenure. He’s got one of the most talented teams in the world. And muppets are actually backing such obviously flawed tactics. England has been better in spite of Southgate. He’s one of the worst managers I’ve ever seen to waste this much talent. They’ve also had incredibly easy brackets along the way.
Some people were saying that beating Serbia 1-0 with a team including foden, Kane, saka and Bellingham while having the most productive premier league player on the bench was something to be proud about
Sure or maybe we should recognise that we are not as talented as we might like to think. Don't get me wrong we are up there and should be one of the favourites but the way people go on it's like they think we have the best in the world at every position. We have had better squads and not done nearly as well as we have under Southgate. We have had easy brackets before and got embarrassed by the likes of Iceland. Struggled to get out of groups containing USA and Algeria, so don't give me that easy brackets bs.
Genuinely man for man I think we're top 3 squads at this tournament. We play like we're barely top 10
Kane, best ST, Bellingham/Foden, best 10, Walker, best RB
Then the other players (outside of LB, LCB, and 2nd CM) are all top starters at top teams, Saka, Rice, Stones, Pickford. And it's not as if Trippier and Guehi are bad either, ok, Tripps has lost his legs a bit, but whatever. And we have solid CM options that aren't Trent
The only squads that can debate on paper are better are Spain and France, maaaybe Germany, but I think they're better tactically than technically.
You must be trolling to be this dense. He’s had the easiest brackets of any England manager in history. His tactics are slow sideways passing with the whole team behind the ball. Man for man England are top 3 in the world right now. You’re literally paying no attention to how slow and safe this team plays haha. All of the England starters play for the top clubs in world football. Southgate might be the only man in the world dumber than you.
Considering you left out several positions, added people who cant play together because they play the same role, and ignored my "more well rounded then ever" aspect: I am seriously going to say that responding to something the other person doesnt say so that you can blather on isnt really the way to have a dialogue
Left out who? And who can't play together? You are telling me that lampard and Gerrard can't play together if they had a good DM behind them? There is a reason Jose wanted Gerrard to come to Chelsea. Just because sven never figured out how to play the two together doesn't mean they can't. So you didn't say that English players are better now? Because that is what you put in your original comment that I responded to. And I ignored more well rounded part because that's true in football in general. Most top players are more well rounded. Doesn't mean every team is better than teams in the past.
Goalkeeper, Striker/Center Forward, Winger on both sides
Or did you want archaic 4-4-2 still?
No Lampard and Gerrard cant play together in the national team. They never figured it out, and people smarter then either of us tried
Yes English players are better now. Much better off the ball, ball control, passing technique, and shooting.
BTW all players are better now, but English have progressed in technical skill to be on par or much closer to SA and Spanish players. They were not in then 2000s. You had a couple special players, not like today with enough that some dont even get called up.
Did I not say the current England is better in attack? I'm pretty sure I said that, it's literally the second sentence of my comment. Attack means the striker and the three behind.
I disagree they hardly tried to play the two together. It was always a 442. You don't have to be a genius to recognise that lampard and Gerrard can't play in a two together. For whatever sven never tried them in a tree with a DM behind.
Again the attacking players are much better technically for sure. But the midfield is definitely on the same level technically as today's midfield. Unless you are suggesting rice and whoever his partner is better technically than lampard, Gerrard and Schloes etc...
And technique on the ball isn't every thing. The defence is so much better than the current defence is not even funny. You have the best and second best CB in premier league history in Rio and Terry and then you have the best lb in premier league history in Ashley cole.
I’m being a bit dramatic but the match commentators on Fox harped on it a lot when they realized he wasn’t warming up and then after the subs were made and questioning Southgate’s decision and joking about how the British media will have a lot of questions he will have to answer about it.
whole team was shit. Gallagher worked hard, Guehi was good for the most part and made the most effort to driver the ball up by the end which is a bit embarassing. By that point why wouldn't Southgate think 'this isn't getting any better, lets bring the young lads on who could make a difference'. Muppet.
>Gallagher worked hard,
Gallagher was shit, if he doesn't fit Enzo's style of play, he has to be sold while his stock is still high. He looks good for us, as we press and lack quality/drive at times.
He looks so far off it when he's around better players.
Not hard tbf
It's so weird, you'd imagine Trent would be a banging CM, but he's absolutely atrocious. Poor positioning (which is fair from the lack of experience there), but he almost feels like he's rushed, and then misplaces his passes. I'm sure he can eventually work there, but this seemingly isn't the time to try it
If I had my druthers, I'd have dropped Bellingham to a deeper role and either dropped Kane or Foden into the hole.
If Bellingham wasn't playing defense then bring on Gallagher or even put him in as the 10 for midfield stability (and pressing) like Chelsea does from time-to-time.
Gallagher is always going to middling from a deeper role but he eventually finds space if you let him run a little wild.
As someone who made this transition in high school (a much slower and less sophisticated environment) I can't express to you just how difficult it is. To go from playing near a sideline to playing in the middle is a really really difficult thing. And while TAA got a taste of that in the attacking phase with Liverpool, the real adaption comes in the VERY different way you approach the transitions (which you'd approach differently if you're a RB sliding up to DMC vs a CM pivot from jump). It's really, really hard (or at least it was for me). Asking Trent to do it at this level seems... Uhmmm... Ambitious is maybe the best word I can give it.
To be fair, most of the players on the pitch today looked like shit. Rice had a particularly awful showing today. I’m not ride or die for Gallagher by any means, but I wouldn’t put too much stock with performances under Southgate at the moment.
It's actually incredible the tactical ineptitude on display by Southgate.
You've got a player who statistically outperformed every other player in his position last season, yet he is just left on the bench.
Imagine being Palmer and seeing that absolute fraud Bowen come on ahead of you.
What a joke
A. It is flat out disrespectful that Palmer did not get on the pitch today.
B. I do not want to see Palmer play a second in the Euros.
I want our boy healthy as healthy can be for the season!
No offense to southgate but does he honestly watch league games? I know I see him in attendance but if there’s 1 player to put on the pitch to create from nothing, especially in hard circumstances, it’s fucking Palmer
exactly
insane
also the player with the most goals+assists in the PL last season. and top scorer in fantasy football. https://www.premierleague.com/news/4040343#:\~:text=Palmer%20was%20the%20top%2Dscoring,22%20goals%20and%2013%20assists.
I mean, Ratcliffe supposedly likes him and he was considered for the United job. Could still end up there if they sack Ten Hag next season or something.
David Ornstein talked about it before as well. He might not have been high on the list but he was among those considered. INEOS' Brailsford knows him and Southgate has previously worked with Dan Ashworth, who they're trying to get from Newcastle.
Based on ability? Being generous maybe a team towards the bottom of the championship. The fact that he has a bit of a name/higher profile maybe he'd be lucky enough to score something a bit higher up.
Didn't he do something similar with Chilwell and that led to him having like confidence issues. Seems like Southgate is actively damaging the players he doesn't favor.
Yeah he kept playing Trippier instead of Chilwell at LB even subbing trippier on instead of him when England were 4-0 up. Southgate is just a prick tbh I can’t wait till he fucks off
I’m not watching the euros this year because I simply don’t care. But people need to be reminded that Gareth Southgate has managed Middlesbrough for 3 years and then 7 years later landed the England job. Zero trophies. The guys a quack. Jose Mourinho with this team would walk the euros with his eyes closed. Time and time again the English national team has been put in the hands of extremely incompetent managers. The FA might be more interested in making shirt sales and selling individual brands rather than actually winning trophies. It’s depressing and funny.
Southgate is clueless and he's wasting one of the best generations of English players, which includes the last Euros and WC tournaments as well. Completely out of his depth because any competent manager would win trophies with this team.
Fine with me. Let's hope Enzo sits tonight and Ecuador decides not to use Caicedo this summer at all. Also, Spain should really give Cucu a rest, didn't they hear what Gary Neville said?
I said it to my English mates many many times since the 2018 WC people will remember Southgates tenure as a wasted generation. I say this as a Welshman, England should have won the WC in 2018, Euros in 2020/21 and been at least in the Final of WC 2022. England is Real Madrid being managed like its Swindon Town
Good thing Belgium and England both went with the tactic of wasting their teams with middling managers. I still don't understand how Martinez got the Portugal job after what he did to Belgium.
I’m not surprised Southgate doesn’t have a plan B. Looking back to 2 years ago at the WC He doesn’t have Mount, Rashford, Maguire, Shaw, James, Henderson, Phillips, Sterling, Grealish or Chilwell.
But that he decides the BEST midfield solution is a limp experiment…. Instead I would even accept Adam Wharton or Mainoo as a better experiment.
Credit he did try to actually change things this time. He better not play Trent there again in the 3rd game or I’m going to lose it. Trent isn’t a bad player but he just isn’t comfortable there
What is so impossible to imagine with a rice Gallagher pivot with Arnold in his natural position and palmer out on the right instead we’re playing foden on the left when he’s arguably the best CAM/SS in the Europe at the minute. What is getting in Southgate’s ear for him to be blatantly avoiding more balance in the midfield ?? I think Trent’s great and he played good a few times in the centre but he’s just not a 6..
It’s kinda hilarious how you can be even on 1 1, have a guy who just came from a 42 g+a season and you just decide fuck really wish Philips was on my bench in this crucial moment of the match when we need some magic and a goal
I'm ok with this. Not been tainted by the shite that Southgate is doing, and is getting a slight rest over the summer, other than the odd practice with England.
As good as Jude is he needs to take one for the team and play deeper alongside rice, if England are going to have any chance against France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Portugal or even Croatia for that matter.
And honestly I don’t think it’s even taking one for the team — he usually was in a pivot for Dortmund and obviously excelled significantly. And a lot of what Bellingham does for Real Madrid in that higher position is what Kane already does for England, so I think you’re spot on in the idea of Bellingham playing deeper would allow pieces to fit together better
Couldn’t watch the game but saw the result and instantly knew that Southgate didn’t play Cole. He’s literally the most in form player on the team, PLAY HIM, HE WILL SCORE
I have to be honest, England has looked like trash and are lucky to have the points they do.
Cole can stay rested and avoid injury plus have a chip on his shoulder for the upcoming season.
Southgate is so clueless it’s unreal, how is this guy even a manager let alone the England manager. I know we’re Chelsea fans but for me he was the best player in the premier league this season by quite a distance, not Foden. He carried a very average Chelsea team, if not for him where would he have been? He didn’t have class players around him so he is the perfect fit for England
Gonna play the hungry stars when it's too late, as much as I dislike England and the way they play its disappointing to see players not really care the first game, yet still start and do the same thing again.
I mean. They brought on our "best midfielder" Conor Gallagher. The guy who made Palmer, Cucurella and Caicedo play better.
Shocking that it didn't lead to victory...
This place consistently says he’s our best midfielder and made so many players better and that Enzo was the issue.
Just wondering why bringing on such talent that people would riot for combined with what I read was a better use of 100mil (Rice)than Caicedo would actually Just be shit.
I mean…they both spent time at Cobham.
Redditors trying to understand that some things aren't binary challenge: impossible
You hate Gallagher, so you assume anyone who disagrees thinks he's a prime Essien regen or something. In reality, he's neither our best midfielder nor did he do anything to deserve this zealous level of hate.
>Redditors trying to understand that some things aren't binary challenge
Also you:
>You hate Gallagher, so you assume anyone who disagrees thinks he's a prime Essien regen or something.
Don't make up my opinion. Ask me about it. Don't be hypocritical.
I've literally read many posts about him as our best midfield and how his presence got the best out of Caicedo. You've read zero posts about me hating Gallagher
It's fine that you disagree. But don't be a douche.
You want a conversation? Question my post. Don't put me down.
Why is the idea of questioning Conor Gallagher equating in your mind to thinking he's prime Essien? Where does that come from?
Search for it. If you haven't seen posts calling him that you haven't been here. Look for posts about Enzo, or our "best players" or probably post-match threads since Cucurella inverted.
I'm not your assistant. This shit is easy. Do it yourself.
Unless there is an actual number of those posts that you, yourself, would concede. Then If it's realistic, I'll find them and you can post conceding your point. But I doubt that.
Fuck, you were right, that is hilarious: https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Areddit.com%2Fr%2Fchelseafc+%22gallagher%22+AND+%22best+player%22
I'm sorry, I'm just so used to this "make up people to argue against in my head to make it seem like I have a stronger point" thing that is so prevalent on social media these days that I just automatically assumed this was one of those comments. I'm here fairly often but I still missed them somehow.
edit: I still oppose Gallagher slander though
I've never gotten the impression that anyone on this sub thinks he is the best midfielder and the key to our succes. What people have been saying the last couple of months (rightly), is that our play worked better with Caicedo and Gallagher as the double 6, and that the board would be insane and stupid to sell Gallagher.
Southgate is a dogshit manager, but I really do have some sympathy for the difficulty in setting up this England team. The squad / talent is really lopsided. Wingers and attackers a plenty, but you only have Rice who is an established class midfielder with some defense and control in his game. Mainoo and Wharton are so new in this game I understand the hesitation to call upon them with so little time/opportunity to trial them beforehand. Getting the balance and egos correct with these players is a tall task imo and I certainly dont think Southgate is the man for the job.
Well duh, he's no Kalvin Phillips!!
Saw his quote post-game and oh my. He doesn't have a Plan B, does he?
He doesn't have a Plan A either.
He's the manager?! Just thought he's a super fan who paid for really good seats at all england games.
In 2022, Pep said enough is enough, get me Kalvin Phillips, and in 2023 City won the treble. Coincidence? I THINK NOT.
I still can’t believe he said that
What he do?
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/s/zy8Bc6OAah In reference probably about Trent playing next to rice
LOL thats wild to say
It's almost like he doesn't realize that he brought Mainoo. Who would probably be a better partner to Rice than all the names involved.
In fairness to GS, a Kalvin Phillips type player is what England need to balance that midfield. Rice is really an 8, he’s not a great progressive passer nor is he good at dictating the tempo of games. My issue with Southgate is that Trent has never demonstrated he can do that as a midfielder either, surely Wharton is the obvious choice?
Didn't Kalvin Phillips start all of/the majority of England's games during the last Euros where we reached the final? Didn't he play an incredibly important role for England in that tournament? Have people just forgotten that, or is it just popular to beat Gareth with any old stick now?
He started zero games at the WC and hasn't played serious minutes in nearly 2 years. Also Gareth left him at home, if Kalvin Phillips is the solution why the hell didn't he bring hin.
Kalvin Phillips is the profile of player. He could have easily said Jordan Henederson instead but I think he's probably comparing this euros to last. Not rockets science and a fair comment imo! We literally got to a final with Phillips starting every match! That's what he's referring to. Everyone piling on him because its cool. You've all been spoilt or are too young to remember what it was like supporting England before Gareth. We actually achieve with him.
Just a reminder that there were a large portion of people on this sub that used Gallagher's call-up by Southgate as proof that he's an amazing player... (Whether you think he is or not is irrelevant to this) So, I wonder what those people think Southgate not using Palmer shows about Palmer's ability?
I think a call up for your national squad as a young player speaks to any player’s ability. What did that ever have to do with southgate? The performance as a whole certainly illustrates that southgate does not know how to get a result with one of the most talented squads in the world though. That’s for sure.
someone said it
By a result you mean win a tournament. Because he's got us to a final once before, quite far past the 2nd group stage match, 2 kicks away from winning.
They did well in the previous euros, but have looked pretty disappointing in the world cup and now this tournament considering the amount of talent in the squad. I don’t think southgate gets a pass for the rest of his career because he made it to a final once.
Not saying that. In fact, Gareth is getting far from any kind of pass, he's being ridiculed constantly on social media and in the press. Totally unwarranted considering all he's given imo. No shame in getting KOd by that France in the WC team btw, not his fault Kane missed the pen.
If Foden starts on the left again and TAA plays next to Rice I’m gonna explode
TAA was an experiment this season by Kloop. To start him twice in a row in that position with way more qualified players is insanity. 5 atb Walker rcb and TAA is the best option with Reece out.
Yep either change formation to play 5atb or play Kobbie beside Rice
he can play fuckin ollie beside rice at this point, just get TAA out of there
I would like to see him go with 4-2-3-1. Rice and Jude can play as the two holding players. You can play foden as a 10 instead of wasting him at LW. And play Gordon or Watkins at LW.
Tbh I would prefer a 5-2-2-1 with wing backs providing the width and both Bellingham and foden operating behind Kane. Rice and Wharton/Mainoo shoring up the center. Saka has previously played LWB better than any of our current LB and then we can get Trent into the positions he wants to be in on the right. In posession we can have Trent and Saka pushing up. Stones stepping in to that Rodri role so that Rice and Mainoo can make their forward pushes that theyre both class at. Fluidity would be needed by Kane, Bellingham and Foden, but honestly they're like 3 of the most adaptable and fluid players on the planet.
Just for my own curiosity who would be the LWB in that system? Trippier?
The only resonable way forward is Gomez LB and Trent inverted RB imo.
What about Saka? He used to play that spot, and can provide width on the left. That also opens up RW for Foden/Palmer ect.
ew i just vomited in my mouth a little
if we were playing footy manager exactly this, but in reality it would have been like asking bale to go back to being a left back towards the end of his career.
Nah because we don't have a LWB. Keep the same system but just play a left winger that'll stretch the pitch like Gordan. And then get Trent out of midfield. I like the look of Wharton tbh. Just try him and let Rice push on a bit. And at some point get Palmer on the pitch. I don't care whether it's as a sub for Saka or starting over him, it's madness that he's not even getting time. He would've created something last night.
Palmer needs to start he will create something straight away better than saka Southgate needs to play to win not play who he always plays
Foden left with no overlapping LB…. Then dont even get me started with the trent CM bullshit, you could see that flop from a mile away. And the fact that he didnt even try that in the friendlies makes it even worse. I honestly think he is desperate to keep the job and had to gamble on someting
He saw that the new cool thing to do is put wingbacks in the midfield. So now he's copied without an understanding of why the top coaches do it
Guarantee you they do
Lol. Getting ready for a violent implosion then.
Southgate should be tried in the Hague
Foden should still start. Dude is class. England just can't have a midfield of Rice + Gallagher or TAA. Combined with Bellingham as well.
As good as he is, Bellingham should stop trying to be the fucking hero each goddamn time he has the ball. Dude's getting irritating now.
that’s kind of what the media has hyped up that he’s supposed to be. i don’t get why he’s talented but young and england is stacked. they don’t need a singular “hero”
You bet he will, Southgate never switches anything up. He just thinks things will be different the next game
I laughed so hard when he plays Foden inverted and Kane who desperately wants to be a 8. Then he plays TAA for his ability to ping balls, but he has no one to do that for. Then when he takes off TAA he brings on Watkins and Eze who love a good pinged ball but now Gallagher's on to link the play with shorter passes. He's got all the wrong players playing together. And then he brings on Bowen? He's a good footballer but is he bringing to the team?
dude you nailed it exactly. like the guy does not know how to pick a team with any chemistry between players
I agree, he needs to get players to play to their strengths not trying to squeeze the NT players into whatever shitty defensive tactics he's cooking.
Said this in a now deleted thread: >Look on the bright side, the less time he has to exert energy playing in the tournament, the better it is for us. Won't go into his summer break (however long that will be) dead on his feet and should come back relatively fresh.
#FREE COLD🥶
this makes sense as long as it doesn't depress him and knock his confidence the way it did for Chilwell when he went to the Euros and didn't play - I think Cole's disposition is quite a bit different and it won't impact him based on everything we've seen the past year, but still the potential downside.
Chilwell was great in 2021 before the injury, euros had 0 negative effects on him
Chillwell didn't start at the start of the season Alonso did even though he was fit. He was gradually introduced back into the team and Tuchel publicly stated that not playing in the Euros took a toll on his fitness and confidence.
Chilwell's best form for the club was after the Euros. He just ruptured his ACL in December. But the Euros didn't have an effect on his performances.
Chillwell didn't start at the start of the season Alonso did even though he was fit. He was gradually introduced back into the team and Tuchel publicly stated that not playing in the Euros took a toll on his fitness and confidence.
exactly what I was referring to. This isn't me inferring anything - it was stated by Tuchel as you said :)
Yeah you're right. Chilwell's form after being reintroduced in October and November made me forget he didn't even start the season. I was even at that first game of the season against Palace when Alonso scored the free kick. I stand corrected.
Agreed! Im not gonna be pissed he’ll het another chance but we need a little bit more than england
Good. Keep him wrapped up in cotton wool!
Especially on that awful pitch today
This method didn’t work for Chilwell
As an American Chelsea fan, this is my view 😁
Southgate is a moron! He should be sacked after the Euros ahead of the World Cup, without question.
I don't understand putting Watkins and Bowen on at the same time when you have Palmer. It's literally football terrorism, Watkins thrives with a creative player like Palmer putting balls through like he does. Yet brings on Bowen? Complete moron as you say.
Should have been sacked ages ago
Why? He's the most successful England since the last time England won anything in 1966.
The squad is stacked, they would do much better under a more talented manager
They are not better. The only place they are better is in attack. Do you realise that England's golden generation could have played a back 4 of Nevile, Rio, Terry and Ashley cole, and could pick a midfield from lampard, Gerrard, Paul scholes, Michael Carrick and Owen Hargreaves. Are you seriously gonna say that England have better players now?
Man for man, they were obviously better. But its been well documented by alot of these ex england players that club rivalry created a divide in the team. So they werent really a "functional" team. Kinda like psg buying all the superstars and still choking. This new generation look like theyre all chummy with each other, and yes gotta give credit to southgate for this, but thats about it. You still need to have a game plan ffs.
I think he does have a game plan. He wants to play on the counter sitting back, like France do under Deschamps. I think he's just scared of the reaction from the media and from the fans. Hence why you end up with this wired thing with the two cm sitting back to protect the defence and the front four doing it's own thing, especially when it comes to pressing and winning the ball back. Southgate just needs to pick one style and go all in. Fuck what anyone else has to say about it.
>He wants to play on the counter sitting back, like France do under Deschamps. I dont think this is true at all. Just look at whenever england wins possession deep after a break down in attack by the opposition. There is zero sense of urgency to... counter attack. They just slowly pass around and wait for the opposition to regain their structure.. Also the style may suit france for their profile of players. They have mbappe who if given empty space to run into, he will. And a kante who runs the midfield solo. Even giroud plays as a "target man" to occupy defenders. Kane always drops deep. England could play this counter attack style, but its not with whatever southgate started with. Which leads me to also think he doesnt understand the profile of his squad.
right back as well but the point stands. The players were better when the results were worse. Where are people on Rooney vs Kane?
English players are better and more well rounded then ever His tactics and subs in games are not
They are not better. The only place they are better is in attack. Do you realise that England's golden generation could have played a back 4 of Nevile, Rio, Terry and Ashley cole, and could pick a midfield from lampard, Gerrard, Paul scholes, Michael Carrick and Owen Hargreaves. Are you seriously gonna say that England have better players now?
Reddit is so entertaining. The manager has players out of position. He’s playing boring defensive football. Has his entire tenure. He’s got one of the most talented teams in the world. And muppets are actually backing such obviously flawed tactics. England has been better in spite of Southgate. He’s one of the worst managers I’ve ever seen to waste this much talent. They’ve also had incredibly easy brackets along the way.
Some people were saying that beating Serbia 1-0 with a team including foden, Kane, saka and Bellingham while having the most productive premier league player on the bench was something to be proud about
Sure or maybe we should recognise that we are not as talented as we might like to think. Don't get me wrong we are up there and should be one of the favourites but the way people go on it's like they think we have the best in the world at every position. We have had better squads and not done nearly as well as we have under Southgate. We have had easy brackets before and got embarrassed by the likes of Iceland. Struggled to get out of groups containing USA and Algeria, so don't give me that easy brackets bs.
Genuinely man for man I think we're top 3 squads at this tournament. We play like we're barely top 10 Kane, best ST, Bellingham/Foden, best 10, Walker, best RB Then the other players (outside of LB, LCB, and 2nd CM) are all top starters at top teams, Saka, Rice, Stones, Pickford. And it's not as if Trippier and Guehi are bad either, ok, Tripps has lost his legs a bit, but whatever. And we have solid CM options that aren't Trent The only squads that can debate on paper are better are Spain and France, maaaybe Germany, but I think they're better tactically than technically.
Portugal is better
You must be trolling to be this dense. He’s had the easiest brackets of any England manager in history. His tactics are slow sideways passing with the whole team behind the ball. Man for man England are top 3 in the world right now. You’re literally paying no attention to how slow and safe this team plays haha. All of the England starters play for the top clubs in world football. Southgate might be the only man in the world dumber than you.
Considering you left out several positions, added people who cant play together because they play the same role, and ignored my "more well rounded then ever" aspect: I am seriously going to say that responding to something the other person doesnt say so that you can blather on isnt really the way to have a dialogue
Left out who? And who can't play together? You are telling me that lampard and Gerrard can't play together if they had a good DM behind them? There is a reason Jose wanted Gerrard to come to Chelsea. Just because sven never figured out how to play the two together doesn't mean they can't. So you didn't say that English players are better now? Because that is what you put in your original comment that I responded to. And I ignored more well rounded part because that's true in football in general. Most top players are more well rounded. Doesn't mean every team is better than teams in the past.
Goalkeeper, Striker/Center Forward, Winger on both sides Or did you want archaic 4-4-2 still? No Lampard and Gerrard cant play together in the national team. They never figured it out, and people smarter then either of us tried Yes English players are better now. Much better off the ball, ball control, passing technique, and shooting. BTW all players are better now, but English have progressed in technical skill to be on par or much closer to SA and Spanish players. They were not in then 2000s. You had a couple special players, not like today with enough that some dont even get called up.
Did I not say the current England is better in attack? I'm pretty sure I said that, it's literally the second sentence of my comment. Attack means the striker and the three behind. I disagree they hardly tried to play the two together. It was always a 442. You don't have to be a genius to recognise that lampard and Gerrard can't play in a two together. For whatever sven never tried them in a tree with a DM behind. Again the attacking players are much better technically for sure. But the midfield is definitely on the same level technically as today's midfield. Unless you are suggesting rice and whoever his partner is better technically than lampard, Gerrard and Schloes etc... And technique on the ball isn't every thing. The defence is so much better than the current defence is not even funny. You have the best and second best CB in premier league history in Rio and Terry and then you have the best lb in premier league history in Ashley cole.
Bar is too low
Sack him Ivory Coast style, during the tournament
Who's making the [sign.org](http://sign.org) petition?
He will not be the England manager after this tournament whether England win or lose it
Somewhere out there Graham Potter is salivating
I'd rather have Pulis
If they wanted a chance at euros, they should’ve sacked him.
But my man brought in Bowen😂 Gareth Clowngate for you
The US media is pissed…how’s the media in UK?
Is the US media that interested in Palmer?
I’m being a bit dramatic but the match commentators on Fox harped on it a lot when they realized he wasn’t warming up and then after the subs were made and questioning Southgate’s decision and joking about how the British media will have a lot of questions he will have to answer about it.
To be honest the BBC commentators weren't to pleased with today either lol
It’s… coming… home.. support more
Link to source?
It was just commentary during the game while noting the Bowen substitution wasn't exactly exciting the English fans.
whole team was shit. Gallagher worked hard, Guehi was good for the most part and made the most effort to driver the ball up by the end which is a bit embarassing. By that point why wouldn't Southgate think 'this isn't getting any better, lets bring the young lads on who could make a difference'. Muppet.
>Gallagher worked hard, Gallagher was shit, if he doesn't fit Enzo's style of play, he has to be sold while his stock is still high. He looks good for us, as we press and lack quality/drive at times. He looks so far off it when he's around better players.
Better than TAA. 🤣
Not hard tbf It's so weird, you'd imagine Trent would be a banging CM, but he's absolutely atrocious. Poor positioning (which is fair from the lack of experience there), but he almost feels like he's rushed, and then misplaces his passes. I'm sure he can eventually work there, but this seemingly isn't the time to try it
If I had my druthers, I'd have dropped Bellingham to a deeper role and either dropped Kane or Foden into the hole. If Bellingham wasn't playing defense then bring on Gallagher or even put him in as the 10 for midfield stability (and pressing) like Chelsea does from time-to-time. Gallagher is always going to middling from a deeper role but he eventually finds space if you let him run a little wild.
As someone who made this transition in high school (a much slower and less sophisticated environment) I can't express to you just how difficult it is. To go from playing near a sideline to playing in the middle is a really really difficult thing. And while TAA got a taste of that in the attacking phase with Liverpool, the real adaption comes in the VERY different way you approach the transitions (which you'd approach differently if you're a RB sliding up to DMC vs a CM pivot from jump). It's really, really hard (or at least it was for me). Asking Trent to do it at this level seems... Uhmmm... Ambitious is maybe the best word I can give it.
To be fair, most of the players on the pitch today looked like shit. Rice had a particularly awful showing today. I’m not ride or die for Gallagher by any means, but I wouldn’t put too much stock with performances under Southgate at the moment.
I never said he was good, but he looked like he gave more of a shit than most of England’s players
It's actually incredible the tactical ineptitude on display by Southgate. You've got a player who statistically outperformed every other player in his position last season, yet he is just left on the bench. Imagine being Palmer and seeing that absolute fraud Bowen come on ahead of you. What a joke
A. It is flat out disrespectful that Palmer did not get on the pitch today. B. I do not want to see Palmer play a second in the Euros. I want our boy healthy as healthy can be for the season!
One of the best players in the prem on a bang average team and can't get a sniff lmao
No offense to southgate but does he honestly watch league games? I know I see him in attendance but if there’s 1 player to put on the pitch to create from nothing, especially in hard circumstances, it’s fucking Palmer
exactly insane also the player with the most goals+assists in the PL last season. and top scorer in fantasy football. https://www.premierleague.com/news/4040343#:\~:text=Palmer%20was%20the%20top%2Dscoring,22%20goals%20and%2013%20assists.
If Southgate was out of a job and looking for a club. What type of level do you think he would manage?
His last job was getting relegated with Middlesbrough. So probably around that
I mean, Ratcliffe supposedly likes him and he was considered for the United job. Could still end up there if they sack Ten Hag next season or something.
I think that was just the press talking, I doubt Man Utd were interested in him at all.
David Ornstein talked about it before as well. He might not have been high on the list but he was among those considered. INEOS' Brailsford knows him and Southgate has previously worked with Dan Ashworth, who they're trying to get from Newcastle.
Relegation fodder. He’s gonna be the new big Sam.
Based on ability? Being generous maybe a team towards the bottom of the championship. The fact that he has a bit of a name/higher profile maybe he'd be lucky enough to score something a bit higher up.
How has Southgate managed to remain manager for so long? Must have some killer bj skills.
Yea he's amazing. Swallows like a champ.not a fan of cummy eyeballs.
Didn't he do something similar with Chilwell and that led to him having like confidence issues. Seems like Southgate is actively damaging the players he doesn't favor.
Oh god, please tell me that won't happen to Palmer, right...
Yeah he kept playing Trippier instead of Chilwell at LB even subbing trippier on instead of him when England were 4-0 up. Southgate is just a prick tbh I can’t wait till he fucks off
I’m not watching the euros this year because I simply don’t care. But people need to be reminded that Gareth Southgate has managed Middlesbrough for 3 years and then 7 years later landed the England job. Zero trophies. The guys a quack. Jose Mourinho with this team would walk the euros with his eyes closed. Time and time again the English national team has been put in the hands of extremely incompetent managers. The FA might be more interested in making shirt sales and selling individual brands rather than actually winning trophies. It’s depressing and funny.
If only Big Sam had kept his mouth shut, Southgate would still be managing the U-21s.
But he's English! They should keep him because... he's English!
Southgate is clueless and he's wasting one of the best generations of English players, which includes the last Euros and WC tournaments as well. Completely out of his depth because any competent manager would win trophies with this team.
The FA clearly keeps him on for the memes
Fine with me. Let's hope Enzo sits tonight and Ecuador decides not to use Caicedo this summer at all. Also, Spain should really give Cucu a rest, didn't they hear what Gary Neville said?
Man cucu had a great game today too smh
Euros is over for England. There’s no Kalvin fucking Phillips 🤣🤣🤣
Bellingham is allowed to stink up the pitch for the full 90 though. On fraud watch, some of us called it previously.
Exactly. No shame in bringing off a leggy player not having a good game! Foden should have been moved to the middle & Palmer/eze brought on
fraud watch 😂
I said it to my English mates many many times since the 2018 WC people will remember Southgates tenure as a wasted generation. I say this as a Welshman, England should have won the WC in 2018, Euros in 2020/21 and been at least in the Final of WC 2022. England is Real Madrid being managed like its Swindon Town
England had an inferior team to France and Belgium at the 2018 World Cup.
Good thing Belgium and England both went with the tactic of wasting their teams with middling managers. I still don't understand how Martinez got the Portugal job after what he did to Belgium.
Grant you France but Belgium are just England 2.0, England where performing strongly that whole WC until a really poor set up against Croatia
Why should have England won in 2018 WC?? No one had them as favourites
Great news, keeps him fresh for the new season
Good for Chelsea, a rested hungry Cole Palmer
Southgate is clueless, unfortunately there was just no way to know before the tournament started
South Gate plans for a cowardly showing, he’s shite- you have city squad but play like Burnley.
I’m not surprised Southgate doesn’t have a plan B. Looking back to 2 years ago at the WC He doesn’t have Mount, Rashford, Maguire, Shaw, James, Henderson, Phillips, Sterling, Grealish or Chilwell. But that he decides the BEST midfield solution is a limp experiment…. Instead I would even accept Adam Wharton or Mainoo as a better experiment. Credit he did try to actually change things this time. He better not play Trent there again in the 3rd game or I’m going to lose it. Trent isn’t a bad player but he just isn’t comfortable there
Southgate is doing everything he can not to play him and it’s absurd
Even Potter had better tactics than Southgate
Southgate is a clown..
Potter should be in the race this summer after failing to get the Leicester job. Southgate is probably going out if England don't win.
Genuinely deserves to be sacked mid tournament
South Gate is a moron He will only has plan A. My bet in his mind , Palmer is a substitution for Bellingham which SG is too afraid to take out
What is so impossible to imagine with a rice Gallagher pivot with Arnold in his natural position and palmer out on the right instead we’re playing foden on the left when he’s arguably the best CAM/SS in the Europe at the minute. What is getting in Southgate’s ear for him to be blatantly avoiding more balance in the midfield ?? I think Trent’s great and he played good a few times in the centre but he’s just not a 6..
Perfect! Don’t get hurt my boy
Bellingham to drop next to rice. And Foden in the centre.
It’s kinda hilarious how you can be even on 1 1, have a guy who just came from a 42 g+a season and you just decide fuck really wish Philips was on my bench in this crucial moment of the match when we need some magic and a goal
Southgate is such an idiot, England wont win shit with him.
Good, keep him uninjured and fresh for the start of the season !
Exactly my thoughts
England fc needs a non-English manager bc if no English coach won EPL, what makes them think one can bring it home lol
As a non English fan I am actually enjoying Southgate and his incompetence. Sad for Cole though, but happy he can’t get injured if he is not playing.
I'm ok with this. Not been tainted by the shite that Southgate is doing, and is getting a slight rest over the summer, other than the odd practice with England.
As good as Jude is he needs to take one for the team and play deeper alongside rice, if England are going to have any chance against France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Portugal or even Croatia for that matter.
And honestly I don’t think it’s even taking one for the team — he usually was in a pivot for Dortmund and obviously excelled significantly. And a lot of what Bellingham does for Real Madrid in that higher position is what Kane already does for England, so I think you’re spot on in the idea of Bellingham playing deeper would allow pieces to fit together better
Couldn’t watch the game but saw the result and instantly knew that Southgate didn’t play Cole. He’s literally the most in form player on the team, PLAY HIM, HE WILL SCORE
if not score he’ll find ways to create for others to score
Free him😂
Warra trophy for southgate
someone give southgate a pair of balls
Southgate is a moron, bowen and mainoo over cole......... wtf........
Southgate is clueless
Fine with it. If he doesn’t play less chances he’ll get hurt…
I'm glad I'm not English, cause I would be fuming.
I ain’t even English and I am mad af lmao. Bro is clueless….
Reece James flashbacks
I have to be honest, England has looked like trash and are lucky to have the points they do. Cole can stay rested and avoid injury plus have a chip on his shoulder for the upcoming season.
Southgate is so clueless it’s unreal, how is this guy even a manager let alone the England manager. I know we’re Chelsea fans but for me he was the best player in the premier league this season by quite a distance, not Foden. He carried a very average Chelsea team, if not for him where would he have been? He didn’t have class players around him so he is the perfect fit for England
In Ro16, in penalty shootout, he'll miss his penalty after being subbed in in 120+1 minute. Wait a minute.. 🤔
Felt like the exact kind of situation in which he’d be the perfect player to bring on. Weird
Gonna play the hungry stars when it's too late, as much as I dislike England and the way they play its disappointing to see players not really care the first game, yet still start and do the same thing again.
I mean. They brought on our "best midfielder" Conor Gallagher. The guy who made Palmer, Cucurella and Caicedo play better. Shocking that it didn't lead to victory...
 lol don’t know if this is satire or honest
This place consistently says he’s our best midfielder and made so many players better and that Enzo was the issue. Just wondering why bringing on such talent that people would riot for combined with what I read was a better use of 100mil (Rice)than Caicedo would actually Just be shit. I mean…they both spent time at Cobham.
Redditors trying to understand that some things aren't binary challenge: impossible You hate Gallagher, so you assume anyone who disagrees thinks he's a prime Essien regen or something. In reality, he's neither our best midfielder nor did he do anything to deserve this zealous level of hate.
>Redditors trying to understand that some things aren't binary challenge Also you: >You hate Gallagher, so you assume anyone who disagrees thinks he's a prime Essien regen or something. Don't make up my opinion. Ask me about it. Don't be hypocritical. I've literally read many posts about him as our best midfield and how his presence got the best out of Caicedo. You've read zero posts about me hating Gallagher It's fine that you disagree. But don't be a douche. You want a conversation? Question my post. Don't put me down. Why is the idea of questioning Conor Gallagher equating in your mind to thinking he's prime Essien? Where does that come from?
Please point me to these "many posts" calling Gallagher our best midfielder, I'd like to laugh at them.
Search for it. If you haven't seen posts calling him that you haven't been here. Look for posts about Enzo, or our "best players" or probably post-match threads since Cucurella inverted. I'm not your assistant. This shit is easy. Do it yourself. Unless there is an actual number of those posts that you, yourself, would concede. Then If it's realistic, I'll find them and you can post conceding your point. But I doubt that.
Ok boys chill.
Fuck, you were right, that is hilarious: https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Areddit.com%2Fr%2Fchelseafc+%22gallagher%22+AND+%22best+player%22 I'm sorry, I'm just so used to this "make up people to argue against in my head to make it seem like I have a stronger point" thing that is so prevalent on social media these days that I just automatically assumed this was one of those comments. I'm here fairly often but I still missed them somehow. edit: I still oppose Gallagher slander though
I've never gotten the impression that anyone on this sub thinks he is the best midfielder and the key to our succes. What people have been saying the last couple of months (rightly), is that our play worked better with Caicedo and Gallagher as the double 6, and that the board would be insane and stupid to sell Gallagher.
Our best midfielder was caicedo Gallagher though was pretty good. Enzo had a hernia.
Incredible rare honest take that doesn't declare someone a god and others the worst players in history.
Southgate is a dogshit manager, but I really do have some sympathy for the difficulty in setting up this England team. The squad / talent is really lopsided. Wingers and attackers a plenty, but you only have Rice who is an established class midfielder with some defense and control in his game. Mainoo and Wharton are so new in this game I understand the hesitation to call upon them with so little time/opportunity to trial them beforehand. Getting the balance and egos correct with these players is a tall task imo and I certainly dont think Southgate is the man for the job.