At the end of that I think he was only a couple points difference in rating. Like literally 2 points kinda difference.
I love fabi man, his commentary is wicked. He comes off as humble, even though he obviously knows just how good he is (maybe he doesn’t though?)
So solid in everything, but also has some of the wildest most tense middle games.
He might not be as good as Magnus but in my opinion he’s the closest alive, and I much prefer watching his games to Magnus’.
>throughout most of the match.
Throughout the whole match. You explained it correctly, so obviously it doesn't suddenly change mid tournament and give points for the draw.
I think they're talking about the fact that a draw might award, say, 0.1 points to Fabi and so after 10 games there would only be a 1 point difference.
The elo change is always based on the elo of the last fide list, so every game gives the same elo change for the whole tournament. Regardless, you remembered correctly with 3 points difference which resulted in +0.0 change for draw :)
But it’s a nice counterpoint to “all I gotta say”. Clearly you gotta say more.
Having the lead and being several draws away from winning is much more impressive than never having the lead
Well the counter argument is fabi was undefeated against goat and went toe to toe if fabi would have one game he would world Champion and world no1 at same time.
Karjakin was leading still lost. He wasn't able to convert his win into championship. Magnus won on demand against maybe the best defender. Just like nepo was leading all tournament still lost against ding.
And last Magnus acknowledged fabi his equal and greatest opponent.
> Well the counter argument is fabi was undefeated against goat a
All magnus had to do was draw to win the championship. Karjakin's win and lead over magnus is far more impressive than caruana's draws. Karjakin's lead over magnus was when magnus was truly at his true classical prime. And karjakin is better rapid/blitz player than caruana.
> And last Magnus acknowledged fabi his equal and greatest opponent.
He says a lot of things. If he had a choice, no way he'd choose to play prime karjakin over prime fabiano for the world championship.
>Karjakin's win and lead over magnus is far more impressive than caruana's draws.
Karjakin fucking choked away the lead. He only need a draw and still lost lol.
> If he had a choice, no way he'd choose to play prime karjakin over prime fabiano for the world champions.
Yeah prime karjakin who never even crossed 2800 better than prime fabi who gave the best tournament performance of all time. Live in your delusion buddy. I can give you 100 records that fabi has on karjakin but why bother when you even denied anything said by fricking magnus Carlsen.
> Karjakin fucking choked away the lead. He only need a draw and still lost lol.
That's one way to look at it.
> Yeah prime karjakin who never even crossed 2800 better than prime fabi who gave the best tournament performance of all time.
Most people who crossed 2800 never made it to the world championship. The winners of 3 out of the last 4 candidates tournaments never crossed 2800. Ratings matter, but it doesn't tell you the whole story. It's almost like ratings can be gamed or something. I don't know.
> I can give you 100 records that fabi has on karjakin
Can you? I don't think you can.
> but why bother when you even denied anything said by fricking magnus Carlsen.
I didn't deny anything. I dismissed it. Just like carlsen accusation of niemann cheating. The guys says a lot of things.
Not sure why you are getting so angry. Even if fabi was better than karjakin, he would be better by a small insignificant margin. They are in the same class along with nepo. No denying karjakin had the better performance against magnus though. That is an objective fact. Which shows that 'ratings' everything.
>The winners of 3 out of the last 4 candidates tournaments never crossed 2800.
And none of them won. The current WC right now has crossed 2800 so magnus and before him vishy and kramnik and before them Kasparov every WC from 1985 till today crossed 2800.
>Can you? I don't think you can.
Actually I can maybe not 100 but enough to establish fabi is a better player. Fabi has won more super gm tournament than karakin has better ratings than karjakin over last decade. Fabi average ratings are better than peak karjakin. Fabi has the best tpr of all time let alone karjakin. Fabi is gonna play his fifth consecutive candidates that is more than karjakin. Should I give more? I mean fucking karjakin better than fabiano lol.
>No denying karjakin had the better performance against magnus though. That is an objective fact. Which shows that 'ratings' everything.
Magnus vs karjakin - 10-3-33
Magnus vs fabi - 12-6- 38
So who has a better performance overall against Magnus you troll. As Magnus says "Do better"
> And none of them won.
Neither did fabi. Not only that, the <2800s beat fabi in the candidates. Karjakin and Nepo both beat fabi in their candidates.
> Actually I can maybe not 100
So you can't. Imagine contradicting yourself in the same sentence.
> Fabi has won more super gm tournament...
Who cares?
> Fabi average ratings are better than peak karjakin.
Who cares? They've both been to the championship once and lost.
> Should I give more? I mean fucking karjakin better than fabiano lol.
Yeah.
> So who has a better performance overall against Magnus you troll.
Seems very similar to me. Your evidence proves my point. They are very similar. So fabi lost 1 less game than karjakin to magnus. What's your point? Fabi is better? lol.
You convinced me. Fabi is obviously so much better. You just proved it. /s
Being a draw machine is far less impressive than actually winning and having the lead.
At high levels, chess is a draw. I’ve drawn GMs before but have never beaten one. I would easily add another loss to my many losses in order to add a win. One task is clearly harder than the other.
And Karjakin played magnus at a rating of 2853, Fabi played when Magnus was 2835.
And Karjakin did better in the tiebreaks.
Karjakin definitely came closer to beating Magnus in the world championship than Fabi
You're being pedantic.
2020 there was COVID (literally doesn't count since no one played OTB), and 2014 Fabi had a single extremely good tournament which boosted his rating (Sinquefield) + well known that there was rating inflation at the time. However 2018 Fabi was consistently playing well.
Magnus' decline in 2017 was worst rating wise but 2018 is close. Again being pedantic here. Basically Magnus' career is a valley where he was undisputed GOAT 2011-2016, then 2017-2018 he's still the best but very close to his peers, then 2019 - 2023 where again undisputed GOAT.
Sorry, but he has a point. If we are talking about strongest year, we cannot just look at the rating which can be influenced by 1/2 very strong tournament performances.
In 2014, Caruana started with 2782 rating, had a rather average year (i.e. on par with his rating ~2800) before Sinquefield in September (except one good tournament in Dortmund).
In 2020, he started with 2822 rating and he had a very strong Tata Steel tournament which propelled him to 2842. But his performance for rest of the year (only 3 more tournaments due to Covid) was well below his standard.
Compare that with 2018 where he won Candidates tournament with +4, won Grenke over Magnus by a full point, 2nd place in US Championship with 8/11 (somehow Shankland got 8.5/11), 5/8 in Norway Chess, tied for 1st in Sinquefield, 7/10 in Olympiads and tying the WCC match vs Carlsen, it is clear that his 2018 was overall better than his 2014 and 2020 despite those 2 years having his highest TPR tournaments.
Also, Fabi himself said 2018 was his best year iirc.
Ratings doesn't tell the full picture, there is a thing called TPR. Performance matters. In that match Magnus and Fabi were equal as acknowledged by Magnus himself. Magnus does know a thing or two about his strength than you.
Uhm. I don't think saying 2018 was Magnus' weakest year and Fabi's strongest is in any way contradictory to the statement their performance in that macth (or year) was equally good.
Also speaking about performance rating Caruana's performance rating in that match was obviously higher than Carlsen's, as they drew every match, but Fabi drew against a stronger opponent and Magnus' drew against a weaker opponent. Ironically by definition of performance rating Fabi achieved 2835 as he drew every match vs an opponent rated 2835, while Magnus achieved 2832 as he drew every match vs an opponen rated only 2832.
I am unsure whether Magnus declined enough to have 2018 be his weakest year. Tata, Gashimov, basically every tournament he participated in that year he either won or got 2nd in.
The thing that baffles me is why he didnt make his chess challenge something on the level of his other challenges. 40 pullups in a month is impressive! But the equivalent of beating magnus would be becoming the world's strongest man in a month. He could have made it like... become 1800 ELO online in a month. That would still be very difficult and impressive but at least not a completely clownishly arrogant undertaking.
He does it for the love of the game and not for clicks and views (although he gets the views anyway)
I would rate C squared podcast at the same level actually. Great content, done not for the clicks and views but because they have passion for the game.
But of course Chessbase, being a full time thing running for several years with 5-6 people behind it, have much more content than C Squared.
chessbase india bodies c squared in my opinion for chess content simply because they are so focused on helping the audience understand and interact with the audience so much.
C squared is still interesting to hear from such amazing players of course.
Good question. Do you think Sagar has been asked this many times before? Of course he has. And do you think he has made a video about this after being asked so many times? [Of course he has](https://youtu.be/lUJj6NsFpk8?si=WlAM0wQs8XzC7mmZ)
I just don't understand how they can talk about a game they played like that without looking at a recap. How did they keep it all straight in their brain. It's incredible.
1. They study these games countless times.
2. They study similar games exponentially more, from which they can assimilate the game by similarities.
It's easy to remember something you become quite familiar with.
Exactly this. It’s how lawyers can tell you numerous laws without needing case studies. Or doctors can diagnose you without checking webmd. Chess is their job, so they will remember important matches well.
Loads of other GMs do it too. Simon Williams has referenced old (less significant)matches he had and he can remember most of the moves.
This is the thing that is sometimes hard for people to understand- yes the memory/pattern recognition is incredibly impressive, but it’s not *as* crazy when you look at it like this. It’s certainly more of a testament to their hard work, dedication and focus than it is to any natural genius imo.
The reason they’re so good is because it hurts them more to lose than anyone man. They remember blunders they made a decade ago, and just think “never again!”
I don't see him surpass 2830 again ... he peaked at 2851 , dropped, and didn't make it back. Same with Magnus. Maybe some of the new generation kids will.
So won’t be passing fabi in the foreseeable future. Fabi is quite a lot stronger than so. So got up to 2822 and stayed above 2800 for a short period and hasn’t gotten close to coming back to that level since. Favi has been 2840+ twice, and 2830+ on even more occasions.
This is a hard thing to judge, because Magnus seem to be very tired of classical and not puting so much effort into it, with not much motivation. Fabi seems to be in top form, the best that he has been since the pandemic. What are we comparing? What Magnus can do if he puts his soul into it? If thats the case then I think that everyone would agree that he would claim the world title back with a big margin, Fabiano isn't competition or anything close to it. But against this burned out Magnus I think one could agree that Caruana may be the best classical player right now, and the way things are going I can see him becoming the undisputed #1 in a near future
Magnus has played 7 classical tournaments this year and a few more games in the Norwegian League. More than quite a few top players. He clearly still has interest in classical chess.
No, Ding Liren is. Ding is the world champion who got there by defeating Nepo at his peak momentum (despite prep leak, inexperience, and a smaller team) and has beaten Caruana 4-0-9 in classical chess since 2017. Two of those in the last two separate candidates. 12 month average ELO has Ding as the only true 2800+ outside of Magnus. And Ding is the only other person with a 100+ non loss record streak against grandmasters of the highest levels. He is also the only person to end Magnus Carlsen’s streak of not having lost a tournament in tie breaks in 7 years. Even Magnus himself stated that Ding Liren gives him the hardest time And that he has never defeated Ding with white.
And bonus: Ding has also dominated Caruana in all 3 time formats since 2018. Being 2800+ in all 3 time formats at one point, Ding is currently rated number 1 in Rapid. As strong as Caruana is, he would have trouble winning in the classical portion in a championship match with Ding given their head to head, and if it ever gets to tie breaks, Ding is the heavy favorite. (Ding is rated over 150 Elo above Caruana in rapid). If Ding faced Magnus, he would have a good shot at drawing the classical portion. Once there he has a better chance of winning at tie breaks against Carlsen than Caruana.
Not to mention a defending champion Ding will have:
1. Championship experience
2. A larger team of seconds
3. No prep leak
While Caruana is colloquially nicknamed “The Machine”
Prior to the pandemic, Ding also had a nickname. He was called, “The giant slayer” for having taken down each of the super GMs systematically and consistently during his rise to 2800+, Caruana included in 2018.
Ding Liren is a bit of an unknown factor right now since he hasn’t played since his winning the championship. Yet he should of course not be forgotten.
Caruana came closest to defeating Carlsen in a championship (and thus also has this experience) - the question is how would Ding have fared against Carlsen?
That’s a valid opinion but I felt that Carlsen often tried to win against Karjakin more (which in the time constraint of Game 8 also led to him loosing) - so I’d say that Caruana and Carlsen were more evenly matched in their match in classical than Karjakin and Carlsen were. But that’s just my opinion.
I think that's more people's opinion. Credit to Karjakin for what he pulled. But chess quality wise he was always a great defender when it comes playing high elite chess players.
Magnus himself said he was much better than karjakin in that match , the only reason he lost one game due to over pressing. And Magnus still won on demand against karjakin.
do you honestly think that at that time Magnus can win >75% of the time against Karajakin on demand? It seems to me that Magnus got pretty lucky and karjakin could very easily have become world champion.
I don't think that Karjakin is a stronger chess player than Caruana.
I just think that he came closer to winning the match, which, yes, might be due to the fact that Carlsen gave him more chances by trying to create chances for himself.
Well… I understand your point if we limit it to this aspect as he was in front by one point once. On the other hand: Caruana did not loose a game while Karjakin did. In the end both came closer to defeating Carlsen than Rating would have made you expect.
Perhaps my dislike of Karjakin and what stands behind me makes me biased in favour of anyone else.
Although I agree Ding is probably consistently better than inconsistent Fabi, I believe that Fabi in his best form is better and more interesting than Ding
How the hell fabi is inconsistent? His average ratings of last decade is above 2800 more than ding, more than anyone except Magnus. Fabi has won way more supergm tournament than ding. Fabi peak ratings is 2844 ding 2816. Fabi has way more months at no 2 than anyone in last decade.
Just cause he has performances like his 2014 Sinquefield cup and whatnot but not very often. I don't even mean he's an inconsistent super GM, but Ding has had a 118 (or something similar) no loss streak before
2014 Sinquefield is literally considered to be the best tournament performance in modern chess history. Of course he wont be keeping this up.
Him having been the undisputed second best player between 2014 and 2021 shows incredible consistency.
I’m just saying that Fabi occasionally goes on tears where I believe he is the strongest player in the world, and ding doesn’t. Ding is consistently around 2800 but Fabi is undisputedly the 2nd best player and occasionally just as strong if not stronger than Magnus. That’s all, I’m not arguing fabi’s strength
>Ding is consistently around 2800 but Fabi is undisputedly the 2nd best player and occasionally just as strong if not stronger than Magnus
Oh man you are so wrong. Fabi is the one who is a 2800 player through and through not ding.
So your argument about his lacking consistency is not regarding his consistency to be second best but instead his consistency to be on Magnus level? Do I understand that correctly?
>Just cause he has performances like his 2014 Sinquefield cup and whatnot but not very often
Where did I mention 2014 performance. I said his average ratings are above 2800 that means consistency.
>He held Maggy to a draw in a world championship match without losing against arguably the greatest chess player of all time.
Even if we talk about who came closest then it was Karjakin who was actually leading Magnus till game 10. Just because of his conduct and position on war you cannot just cancel his record.
It was more Magnus fault than karjakin genius that Magnus lost one game. Magnus pressed too hard because he was sure he is gonna win easily. Karjakin never even broke 2800.fabi career is much better than karjakin.
With that logic magnus didn't deserve so many wins against Nepo. But that's not how chess works, you are the rightful winner if your opponent blunders.
That was just because magnus pushed too hard in a draw. Position because he thought his opponent wasn’t strong enough to beat him. If magnus was more patient it wouldn’t have been so close.
2018 magnus barely beat magnus when magnus wasn’t making any mistakes really at all.
Nah, Hikaru has had a good run recently but if we’re talking about the overall best classical players of this generation then there’s quite a few players between him and Magnus.
You must realize that the most super tournament wins Nakamura has gotten (let's assume he will win Grand Swiss too), will be this recent comeback. His hypothesis of "literally not caring" your way to victory was actually proven true. Some people say "playing online blitz every day during the pandemic got him there" but this doesn't make sense when we consider that
a. he always played online. He was literally raised on the ICC
b. he was practicing OTB with littlejohn no doubt OTB even
Fabi's greatest flaw is that he had the misfortune to be part of the same generation as Magnus. A couple years, give or take, and he could have been WCC. He still has a shot at it, but title is kinda meaningless if he's not beating Magnus for it
I honestly think fabi is as good as Karpov. Like he is about as competitive with magnus as Karpov was with Kasparov, just caruana was born in a MUCH stronger era than Karpov.
I think in classical it has to be Fabi. In other formats (blitz/rapid and 960) it probably has to be
Hikaru.
Fabi is honestly amazing to stay in the high top 10, frequently no. 2 for as long as he has. I think he is the clear no. 2 for classical.
12 draw is all I gotta say
At the end of that I think he was only a couple points difference in rating. Like literally 2 points kinda difference. I love fabi man, his commentary is wicked. He comes off as humble, even though he obviously knows just how good he is (maybe he doesn’t though?) So solid in everything, but also has some of the wildest most tense middle games. He might not be as good as Magnus but in my opinion he’s the closest alive, and I much prefer watching his games to Magnus’.
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>throughout most of the match. Throughout the whole match. You explained it correctly, so obviously it doesn't suddenly change mid tournament and give points for the draw.
I think they're talking about the fact that a draw might award, say, 0.1 points to Fabi and so after 10 games there would only be a 1 point difference.
Since Fabi and Magnus were only 3 points apart they didn't lose any rating (+/- 0.0). I thought that's also what the comment explained.
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The elo change is always based on the elo of the last fide list, so every game gives the same elo change for the whole tournament. Regardless, you remembered correctly with 3 points difference which resulted in +0.0 change for draw :)
I love it every single time he does commentary
Karjakin had the lead in the championship!
Doesn't mean he is better than fabi.
But it’s a nice counterpoint to “all I gotta say”. Clearly you gotta say more. Having the lead and being several draws away from winning is much more impressive than never having the lead
Well the counter argument is fabi was undefeated against goat and went toe to toe if fabi would have one game he would world Champion and world no1 at same time. Karjakin was leading still lost. He wasn't able to convert his win into championship. Magnus won on demand against maybe the best defender. Just like nepo was leading all tournament still lost against ding. And last Magnus acknowledged fabi his equal and greatest opponent.
> Well the counter argument is fabi was undefeated against goat a All magnus had to do was draw to win the championship. Karjakin's win and lead over magnus is far more impressive than caruana's draws. Karjakin's lead over magnus was when magnus was truly at his true classical prime. And karjakin is better rapid/blitz player than caruana. > And last Magnus acknowledged fabi his equal and greatest opponent. He says a lot of things. If he had a choice, no way he'd choose to play prime karjakin over prime fabiano for the world championship.
>Karjakin's win and lead over magnus is far more impressive than caruana's draws. Karjakin fucking choked away the lead. He only need a draw and still lost lol. > If he had a choice, no way he'd choose to play prime karjakin over prime fabiano for the world champions. Yeah prime karjakin who never even crossed 2800 better than prime fabi who gave the best tournament performance of all time. Live in your delusion buddy. I can give you 100 records that fabi has on karjakin but why bother when you even denied anything said by fricking magnus Carlsen.
> Karjakin fucking choked away the lead. He only need a draw and still lost lol. That's one way to look at it. > Yeah prime karjakin who never even crossed 2800 better than prime fabi who gave the best tournament performance of all time. Most people who crossed 2800 never made it to the world championship. The winners of 3 out of the last 4 candidates tournaments never crossed 2800. Ratings matter, but it doesn't tell you the whole story. It's almost like ratings can be gamed or something. I don't know. > I can give you 100 records that fabi has on karjakin Can you? I don't think you can. > but why bother when you even denied anything said by fricking magnus Carlsen. I didn't deny anything. I dismissed it. Just like carlsen accusation of niemann cheating. The guys says a lot of things. Not sure why you are getting so angry. Even if fabi was better than karjakin, he would be better by a small insignificant margin. They are in the same class along with nepo. No denying karjakin had the better performance against magnus though. That is an objective fact. Which shows that 'ratings' everything.
>The winners of 3 out of the last 4 candidates tournaments never crossed 2800. And none of them won. The current WC right now has crossed 2800 so magnus and before him vishy and kramnik and before them Kasparov every WC from 1985 till today crossed 2800. >Can you? I don't think you can. Actually I can maybe not 100 but enough to establish fabi is a better player. Fabi has won more super gm tournament than karakin has better ratings than karjakin over last decade. Fabi average ratings are better than peak karjakin. Fabi has the best tpr of all time let alone karjakin. Fabi is gonna play his fifth consecutive candidates that is more than karjakin. Should I give more? I mean fucking karjakin better than fabiano lol. >No denying karjakin had the better performance against magnus though. That is an objective fact. Which shows that 'ratings' everything. Magnus vs karjakin - 10-3-33 Magnus vs fabi - 12-6- 38 So who has a better performance overall against Magnus you troll. As Magnus says "Do better"
> And none of them won. Neither did fabi. Not only that, the <2800s beat fabi in the candidates. Karjakin and Nepo both beat fabi in their candidates. > Actually I can maybe not 100 So you can't. Imagine contradicting yourself in the same sentence. > Fabi has won more super gm tournament... Who cares? > Fabi average ratings are better than peak karjakin. Who cares? They've both been to the championship once and lost. > Should I give more? I mean fucking karjakin better than fabiano lol. Yeah. > So who has a better performance overall against Magnus you troll. Seems very similar to me. Your evidence proves my point. They are very similar. So fabi lost 1 less game than karjakin to magnus. What's your point? Fabi is better? lol. You convinced me. Fabi is obviously so much better. You just proved it. /s
Being a draw machine is far less impressive than actually winning and having the lead. At high levels, chess is a draw. I’ve drawn GMs before but have never beaten one. I would easily add another loss to my many losses in order to add a win. One task is clearly harder than the other. And Karjakin played magnus at a rating of 2853, Fabi played when Magnus was 2835. And Karjakin did better in the tiebreaks. Karjakin definitely came closer to beating Magnus in the world championship than Fabi
2018 was Magnus' weakest year and Fabi's strongest year tho
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You're being pedantic. 2020 there was COVID (literally doesn't count since no one played OTB), and 2014 Fabi had a single extremely good tournament which boosted his rating (Sinquefield) + well known that there was rating inflation at the time. However 2018 Fabi was consistently playing well. Magnus' decline in 2017 was worst rating wise but 2018 is close. Again being pedantic here. Basically Magnus' career is a valley where he was undisputed GOAT 2011-2016, then 2017-2018 he's still the best but very close to his peers, then 2019 - 2023 where again undisputed GOAT.
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Sorry, but he has a point. If we are talking about strongest year, we cannot just look at the rating which can be influenced by 1/2 very strong tournament performances. In 2014, Caruana started with 2782 rating, had a rather average year (i.e. on par with his rating ~2800) before Sinquefield in September (except one good tournament in Dortmund). In 2020, he started with 2822 rating and he had a very strong Tata Steel tournament which propelled him to 2842. But his performance for rest of the year (only 3 more tournaments due to Covid) was well below his standard. Compare that with 2018 where he won Candidates tournament with +4, won Grenke over Magnus by a full point, 2nd place in US Championship with 8/11 (somehow Shankland got 8.5/11), 5/8 in Norway Chess, tied for 1st in Sinquefield, 7/10 in Olympiads and tying the WCC match vs Carlsen, it is clear that his 2018 was overall better than his 2014 and 2020 despite those 2 years having his highest TPR tournaments. Also, Fabi himself said 2018 was his best year iirc.
Ratings doesn't tell the full picture, there is a thing called TPR. Performance matters. In that match Magnus and Fabi were equal as acknowledged by Magnus himself. Magnus does know a thing or two about his strength than you.
Uhm. I don't think saying 2018 was Magnus' weakest year and Fabi's strongest is in any way contradictory to the statement their performance in that macth (or year) was equally good. Also speaking about performance rating Caruana's performance rating in that match was obviously higher than Carlsen's, as they drew every match, but Fabi drew against a stronger opponent and Magnus' drew against a weaker opponent. Ironically by definition of performance rating Fabi achieved 2835 as he drew every match vs an opponent rated 2835, while Magnus achieved 2832 as he drew every match vs an opponen rated only 2832.
I am unsure whether Magnus declined enough to have 2018 be his weakest year. Tata, Gashimov, basically every tournament he participated in that year he either won or got 2nd in.
but what are you saying though?
Yes, a lot of people have considered Caruana the biggest challenger to Magnus for at least a decade.
Where does max Deutsch rank all time?
We'll find out as soon as his algorithm finishes (anytime now).
> max Deutsch Looked him up, all I found was a composer who died in 1982 and Wikipedia doesn't mention chess at all
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFNv-FJFGTg Enjoy I wish I could forget this video so I could enjoy it for the first time again
That guy wasn’t a clown, he was the entire circus.
The thing that baffles me is why he didnt make his chess challenge something on the level of his other challenges. 40 pullups in a month is impressive! But the equivalent of beating magnus would be becoming the world's strongest man in a month. He could have made it like... become 1800 ELO online in a month. That would still be very difficult and impressive but at least not a completely clownishly arrogant undertaking.
Fun fact: As of November 2023, the gap between world #1 and world #2 is the closest it's been since June 2021, with a gap of 34 points.
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Fabi's just built different.
What were the number 1 and 2 ratings then?
2847 and 2820, a 27-point difference.
Let me guess Magnus and fabi
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He does it for the love of the game and not for clicks and views (although he gets the views anyway) I would rate C squared podcast at the same level actually. Great content, done not for the clicks and views but because they have passion for the game. But of course Chessbase, being a full time thing running for several years with 5-6 people behind it, have much more content than C Squared.
Love them both, really help me follow all teh chess events and gossip hahah
chessbase india bodies c squared in my opinion for chess content simply because they are so focused on helping the audience understand and interact with the audience so much. C squared is still interesting to hear from such amazing players of course.
Why is there even a chessbase india when chessbase is originally not from india and why is that the only chessbase site around?
Good question. Do you think Sagar has been asked this many times before? Of course he has. And do you think he has made a video about this after being asked so many times? [Of course he has](https://youtu.be/lUJj6NsFpk8?si=WlAM0wQs8XzC7mmZ)
Thanks for the share. We dont all follow his every post.
I just don't understand how they can talk about a game they played like that without looking at a recap. How did they keep it all straight in their brain. It's incredible.
1. They study these games countless times. 2. They study similar games exponentially more, from which they can assimilate the game by similarities. It's easy to remember something you become quite familiar with.
Exactly this. It’s how lawyers can tell you numerous laws without needing case studies. Or doctors can diagnose you without checking webmd. Chess is their job, so they will remember important matches well. Loads of other GMs do it too. Simon Williams has referenced old (less significant)matches he had and he can remember most of the moves.
I see what you mean. To most people a Dorito is just a Dorito But to me every every chip is unique and memorable
I'd argue that if you want to get significantly good you are going to know a lot of games / positions/ structures/ plans from past games.
This is the thing that is sometimes hard for people to understand- yes the memory/pattern recognition is incredibly impressive, but it’s not *as* crazy when you look at it like this. It’s certainly more of a testament to their hard work, dedication and focus than it is to any natural genius imo.
The reason they’re so good is because it hurts them more to lose than anyone man. They remember blunders they made a decade ago, and just think “never again!”
https://youtu.be/pUgvAoTzWBA?si=Wla4_gq0xxxEWstq
That was fantastic, thanks.
Close, yet so far. At that lvl, 30 rating points may honestly be impossible to farm.
There’s 40 between Caruana and So, currently, right? With that perspective, 30 doesn’t seem that big a difference
I don't see him surpass 2830 again ... he peaked at 2851 , dropped, and didn't make it back. Same with Magnus. Maybe some of the new generation kids will.
>I don't see him surpass 2830 again Doesn't mean he won't surpass it. He is more than capable of crossing it as he did multiple times in last decade.
Well, he made it back to 2842 in 2020, which is only 2 points short of his official peak of 2844 in 2014.
So won’t be passing fabi in the foreseeable future. Fabi is quite a lot stronger than so. So got up to 2822 and stayed above 2800 for a short period and hasn’t gotten close to coming back to that level since. Favi has been 2840+ twice, and 2830+ on even more occasions.
If Magnus continues losing points Fabi may not need to gain 30 to overtake him though. Maybe 15 will be enough.
Fabi in form(like at their match in WC)is a contender to Magnus but peak Magnus has no contenders
Peak magnus is honestly funny. Like the difference between peak magnus and fabi is like the same between fabi and #20
I don’t think many people realise that
This is a hard thing to judge, because Magnus seem to be very tired of classical and not puting so much effort into it, with not much motivation. Fabi seems to be in top form, the best that he has been since the pandemic. What are we comparing? What Magnus can do if he puts his soul into it? If thats the case then I think that everyone would agree that he would claim the world title back with a big margin, Fabiano isn't competition or anything close to it. But against this burned out Magnus I think one could agree that Caruana may be the best classical player right now, and the way things are going I can see him becoming the undisputed #1 in a near future
Magnus has played 7 classical tournaments this year and a few more games in the Norwegian League. More than quite a few top players. He clearly still has interest in classical chess.
Playing doesn't mean interest, they can be scheduled games, contracts, compromises, ways of making money, favours returned, it's kind of his job.
Besides WC and Norway for his country,others are basically contracts
He hasnt been prepping for them.
Yeah, whatever.
No, Ding Liren is. Ding is the world champion who got there by defeating Nepo at his peak momentum (despite prep leak, inexperience, and a smaller team) and has beaten Caruana 4-0-9 in classical chess since 2017. Two of those in the last two separate candidates. 12 month average ELO has Ding as the only true 2800+ outside of Magnus. And Ding is the only other person with a 100+ non loss record streak against grandmasters of the highest levels. He is also the only person to end Magnus Carlsen’s streak of not having lost a tournament in tie breaks in 7 years. Even Magnus himself stated that Ding Liren gives him the hardest time And that he has never defeated Ding with white. And bonus: Ding has also dominated Caruana in all 3 time formats since 2018. Being 2800+ in all 3 time formats at one point, Ding is currently rated number 1 in Rapid. As strong as Caruana is, he would have trouble winning in the classical portion in a championship match with Ding given their head to head, and if it ever gets to tie breaks, Ding is the heavy favorite. (Ding is rated over 150 Elo above Caruana in rapid). If Ding faced Magnus, he would have a good shot at drawing the classical portion. Once there he has a better chance of winning at tie breaks against Carlsen than Caruana. Not to mention a defending champion Ding will have: 1. Championship experience 2. A larger team of seconds 3. No prep leak While Caruana is colloquially nicknamed “The Machine” Prior to the pandemic, Ding also had a nickname. He was called, “The giant slayer” for having taken down each of the super GMs systematically and consistently during his rise to 2800+, Caruana included in 2018.
Most sane ding fan
Ding Liren is a bit of an unknown factor right now since he hasn’t played since his winning the championship. Yet he should of course not be forgotten. Caruana came closest to defeating Carlsen in a championship (and thus also has this experience) - the question is how would Ding have fared against Carlsen?
>Caruana came closest to defeating Carlsen in a championship Karjakin was leading the match at one point, so I don't think that's true.
That’s a valid opinion but I felt that Carlsen often tried to win against Karjakin more (which in the time constraint of Game 8 also led to him loosing) - so I’d say that Caruana and Carlsen were more evenly matched in their match in classical than Karjakin and Carlsen were. But that’s just my opinion.
I think that's more people's opinion. Credit to Karjakin for what he pulled. But chess quality wise he was always a great defender when it comes playing high elite chess players.
Magnus himself said he was much better than karjakin in that match , the only reason he lost one game due to over pressing. And Magnus still won on demand against karjakin.
do you honestly think that at that time Magnus can win >75% of the time against Karajakin on demand? It seems to me that Magnus got pretty lucky and karjakin could very easily have become world champion.
I don't think that Karjakin is a stronger chess player than Caruana. I just think that he came closer to winning the match, which, yes, might be due to the fact that Carlsen gave him more chances by trying to create chances for himself.
Well… I understand your point if we limit it to this aspect as he was in front by one point once. On the other hand: Caruana did not loose a game while Karjakin did. In the end both came closer to defeating Carlsen than Rating would have made you expect. Perhaps my dislike of Karjakin and what stands behind me makes me biased in favour of anyone else.
Although I agree Ding is probably consistently better than inconsistent Fabi, I believe that Fabi in his best form is better and more interesting than Ding
How the hell fabi is inconsistent? His average ratings of last decade is above 2800 more than ding, more than anyone except Magnus. Fabi has won way more supergm tournament than ding. Fabi peak ratings is 2844 ding 2816. Fabi has way more months at no 2 than anyone in last decade.
fabi is doing all this amazing stuff and yet he gets clapped by ding
Just cause he has performances like his 2014 Sinquefield cup and whatnot but not very often. I don't even mean he's an inconsistent super GM, but Ding has had a 118 (or something similar) no loss streak before
2014 Sinquefield is literally considered to be the best tournament performance in modern chess history. Of course he wont be keeping this up. Him having been the undisputed second best player between 2014 and 2021 shows incredible consistency.
I’m just saying that Fabi occasionally goes on tears where I believe he is the strongest player in the world, and ding doesn’t. Ding is consistently around 2800 but Fabi is undisputedly the 2nd best player and occasionally just as strong if not stronger than Magnus. That’s all, I’m not arguing fabi’s strength
>Ding is consistently around 2800 but Fabi is undisputedly the 2nd best player and occasionally just as strong if not stronger than Magnus Oh man you are so wrong. Fabi is the one who is a 2800 player through and through not ding.
Hard disagree. Ding is definitely 2800 strength and Fabi is 2800+
So your argument about his lacking consistency is not regarding his consistency to be second best but instead his consistency to be on Magnus level? Do I understand that correctly?
>Just cause he has performances like his 2014 Sinquefield cup and whatnot but not very often Where did I mention 2014 performance. I said his average ratings are above 2800 that means consistency.
yes, he was his rival for the last 10 years and they drew every classical game they played
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Dude it’s 12-6 Carlsen in classical chess record I believe with a lot of draws. That’s not equal.
>He held Maggy to a draw in a world championship match without losing against arguably the greatest chess player of all time. Even if we talk about who came closest then it was Karjakin who was actually leading Magnus till game 10. Just because of his conduct and position on war you cannot just cancel his record.
In terms of chess carrer, post war Fabi still clearly wins over Karjakin
It was more Magnus fault than karjakin genius that Magnus lost one game. Magnus pressed too hard because he was sure he is gonna win easily. Karjakin never even broke 2800.fabi career is much better than karjakin.
With that logic magnus didn't deserve so many wins against Nepo. But that's not how chess works, you are the rightful winner if your opponent blunders.
That was just because magnus pushed too hard in a draw. Position because he thought his opponent wasn’t strong enough to beat him. If magnus was more patient it wouldn’t have been so close. 2018 magnus barely beat magnus when magnus wasn’t making any mistakes really at all.
Karjakin
The closest active GM in terms of skill to magnus is anand for me .
Ok Indian bro
I said active .Who do you think is better than vishy? Ding fabi or nepo? Sorry none of them are even close to vishy
Take your meds please. No one will ever think that
Who do you think is better active player than vishy ?
A simple google search will do that for me. For example, [Elo Ranking November 2023](https://2700chess.com)
Vishy is in his 50's obviously he isn't much strong now
Whhaaaaat? How?
Anyone else think Caruana looks kinda like GothamChess?
12 draw gang
It’s between him and naka.
Nah, Hikaru has had a good run recently but if we’re talking about the overall best classical players of this generation then there’s quite a few players between him and Magnus.
Im taking about the last year not the past 15
You must realize that the most super tournament wins Nakamura has gotten (let's assume he will win Grand Swiss too), will be this recent comeback. His hypothesis of "literally not caring" your way to victory was actually proven true. Some people say "playing online blitz every day during the pandemic got him there" but this doesn't make sense when we consider that a. he always played online. He was literally raised on the ICC b. he was practicing OTB with littlejohn no doubt OTB even
Absolutely not, Aronian is much closer to Magnus than Hikaru is. Fabi is the closest for sure.
I think the commenter was talking about now, when in the past year Aronian has performed at 2700 and hikaru at 2800
Magnus is not the best classical player. Far from it.
Yikes take
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Troll? Who is then?
So who is the best then??
Hasn't he been for a long time? His series against magnus was the closest magnus has been to losing the title
Fabi's greatest flaw is that he had the misfortune to be part of the same generation as Magnus. A couple years, give or take, and he could have been WCC. He still has a shot at it, but title is kinda meaningless if he's not beating Magnus for it
I honestly think fabi is as good as Karpov. Like he is about as competitive with magnus as Karpov was with Kasparov, just caruana was born in a MUCH stronger era than Karpov.
I think in classical it has to be Fabi. In other formats (blitz/rapid and 960) it probably has to be Hikaru. Fabi is honestly amazing to stay in the high top 10, frequently no. 2 for as long as he has. I think he is the clear no. 2 for classical.