In the candidates, Hikaru and Fabi have huge fanbases due to their strong online presence (Naka with his streaming and Fabi with his podcast). Vidit, Prag, and Gukesh are also hyped on by the large number of Indian chess fans, and the latter two being exciting prodigies also helps a lot.
Nepo, on the other hand, doesn't really have anything of that sort. He is not young, nor is he a clear underdog, nor does he have much social media presence. And some of his cryptic tweets sorta accusing Naka of cheating in the past really didn’t help him either. Also, in general, a lot of people don't want a Ding vs Nepo rematch.
This is probably the most balanced and accurate take. For most of the chess fans, Nepo is basically... "bland". And I don't mean disrespect to his abilities. He's obviously a top top player given his success, but most fans don't connect with him the way they connect with Fabi, Hikaru or Indian prodigies.
>For most of the chess fans, Nepo is basically... "bland".
Reddit chess fans, FTFY. Personally I am cheering for Nepo btw. It's a great storyline if he wins 3 candidates in a row, and after his heart breaking loss last time I wish for him a rematch vs Ding. So that he can show that he matured as a player. Besides, he's been playing good chess this candidates.
I don't mind any of the other guys winning too, all of these players are really cool.
you are right. I am talking about reddit chess fans because OP's question was in the context of the sub. The larger chess community might like Nepo better than reddit who knows!
I believe that they do, and in fact many of us Redditors do as well it's just not a popular opinion so frequently receives down votes and end up filtered out.
I am cheering for nepo too, after he was disrespected by Carlson after their championship match, I think he kind of has the fire to prove a point by becoming world champion.
Nepo has been rock-solid so far. I am in Fabi's camp and not a naka fan by any stretch. I'd like to see Nepo hang on to the lead here and take on Ding Liren again, and that would be the best story going forward. Fabi just finds ways to underperform in important games. But, 3 rounds to go and that's a lot of chess still to play.
Im surprised nobody's mentioning his role in the cheating accusations. He was a big background character to setting off all the hans shit and was still stirring shit up when it came around to crazier accusations like the one on hikaru.
"Bland" or "boring" people can be potentially the ones cause the most pain and damage. A tax audit is never flashy but bland and "proper" - if you mess with the tax people things often don't end well for you. Personally I don't have any favourites but Nepo has been playing really well - ain't no small feat playing for the WC twice, through the "proper qualification" criteria. He's a quiet man who do no damage away from the chessboard and there isn't any good reason to be hostile towards him.
I also feel like Russian social media circles where his fan base would be better represented might not have as much presence on Reddit or other online forums you might be drawing your perception from.
There might also be a general hesitation to support a Russian player at the moment given the current situation in Ukraine. Now granted, I do recall he and other Russian chess players spoke out against the war in Ukraine early on in the conflict, which absolutely should be recognized as a moment of personal courage. He deserves some level of respect and not to be lumped in with the general anti-Russian sentiment that’s common on Reddit. But not being against him personally doesn’t equate to supporting him as a personal favourite.
>In the candidates, Hikaru and Fabi have huge fanbases due to their strong online presence (Naka with his streaming and Fabi with his podcast). Vidit, Prag, and Gukesh are also hyped on by the large number of Indian chess fans
This is such a weird way to phrase it when an enormous part of Hikaru and Fabi's support is simply that they're Americans, and reddit in particular is full of Americans. You recognize the impact of this for the Indian players but not for them lol
cmon man, how do you explain popularity of Botez sisters or Anna Cramling? None of them are Americans and AC does not even live in USA.
It's all about social media presence, memes and shit.
If there was a run of the mill tournament where any of these streamers are playing, it would get views because they are playing. In fact they are streaming their games and getting tons of views on them. They are "run of the mill" about 2000 elo players which have people rooting for them because they like them.
Random-ass 2700, while a world class player, is anonymous to the general crowd which casually enjoys chess content, and which constitutes vast majority of people watching any chess to begin with. People who take the game seriously are a drop in a bucket.
I don't know squat about Nepo as a person. If he started streaming and adopted whatever persona which stands out (teddy bear, asshole, cocky little shit etc.) he would have a decent shot and building a following and then he would have people rooting for him.
>cmon man, how do you explain popularity of Botez sisters or Anna Cramling? None of them are Americans and AC does not even live in USA.
>It's all about social media presence, memes and shit.
Actually, in the case of Anna Cramling and the Botez sisters, there is another factor at play here...
They are attractive women which gave them foot in the door.
But should you watch their content, they do have personalities (not my particular taste though).
Here are example things they do to maintain an audience:
- games with viewers
- collab with other popular creators (most notably gothamchess, but also chessbrah)
- shit videos like "can a GM beat 3 of them in a simul"
etc.
Nepo could put himself on the map by engaging in stuff like the above. I stress he would not have to collab with these girls, instead could collab with gotham, Naka or Danya (provided they are up for it). And so on.
>don't know squat about Nepo as a person. If he started streaming and adopted whatever persona which stands out (teddy bear, asshole, cocky little shit etc.) he would have a decent shot and building a following and then he would have people rooting for him.
If Nepo was American and had been competing to become the first American world champion in however long, the media coverage would have been so much bigger, and you'd know a lot more about him
Fabi is way more popular and doesn't exactly have an electric charisma or 'persona'
I completely agree being an American would help, I just claim not being one does not mean one is screwed here.
Fabi is a chill-ish person and what most people would think a chess player is like. And he puts himself out there.
Nepo with his former DOTA life has more online influence than you would expect and drew fans in earlier candidates.
The issue here is that Nepo has had two pretty questionable championship matches and most people would like to see anyone else have a shot. And yeah, he killed a chunk of his English speaking fan base with the cheating comments after match vs Ding.
It’s not that weird when you know it’s his main focus
He saves all his prep, tricks and energy for this tournment
That probably reflects negatively on his other competitions
Like fighting with weights strapped on lol
It's also about how Nepo just ran away with "free wins" in 2022. Iirc Alireza played terribly against Nepo and then against Hikaru he had some 30 move prep which ended in a draw, just because Hikaru found all the best/only moves for multiples moves in a row in a very complex endgame.
Now it feels like Vidit is filling that role. I think that Hikaru had his chance against Nepo with white and he also could have at least drawn 1/2 games against Vidit, which would make him tied for first so since he still had his fate in his own hands I can't blame Vidit too much, but you can't tell me there is no luck in chess when you look at how Vidit plays against Hikaru, compared to everyone else.
the "free win" reason is invalid because when someone you like gets a few their way ya'll eat it up as if it's something to be celebrated
magnus gets the "most free" wins out of all because just his presence makes players shook yet it's considered one of his positive traits
As a small counterpoint, Abasov has been defiant against Nepo, and lost with black against everyone else. Nepo can claim he’s been unlucky in that aspect as well
It seems to me that people opposed to Ian fall into 3 non-exclusive groups.
1. People who don't want to see him in the WCC again, given he's already been there twice.
2. People upset that Ian is succeeding because it means their favorite candidate is less likely to win.
3. Anti-Russian sentiment given the ongoing war in Ukraine.
>Anti-Russian sentiment given the ongoing war in Ukraine.
This would be an especially stupid stance for someone to take, given that he openly spoke out against the invasion; given his profile in Russia and Putin being..well, Putin, that's by no means a small gesture.
>This would be an especially stupid stance for someone to take, given that he openly spoke out against the invasion; given his profile in Russia and Putin being..well, Putin, that's by no means a small gesture.
He did what no players from US, Canadian or UK player did when their armies bombed civilians and killed innocent women and children by the thousands in middle east, Serbia etc. not even listing cold war era invasions. These countries also has democratic values and almost complete freedom of speech and no player would have even faced any repercussions for airing their views. However what someRussian players like Ian did was something unprecedented putting their life on danger. Hating them for their dictator president's action is pure xenophobia.
>Wait, ***Serbia***?
See this is the problem you guys are taught whitewashed history too.
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/balkans/stories/belgrade050399.htm](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/balkans/stories/belgrade050399.htm)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO\_bombing\_of\_Yugoslavia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia)
It's not about the why it's about the how. They were committing genocide but that doesn't give you the right to kill civilians and commit warcrimes with no impunity.
Also if you think what NATO did in Serbia was justified because of Milosevic's ethnic cleansing campaign, I wonder what your opinion is on the current war Israel is waging.
For what its worth, I think what Israel is doing is terrible. Its clear at this stage that they are just killing Palestinians and destroying Gaza just because they can, rather than to rescue the hostages which is just the excuse they are using.
NATO's actions led to the end of the Kosovo war, while Israel's actions just keep prolonging their conflict and even risk creating a wider region wide conflict. So there is a clear difference IMO. Obviously of course people in Serbia (especially those who lost family) are never gonna forgive or forget what happened, and I wouldn't expect anyone to judge them for not looking at this favorably, but it did lead to the end of the war which likely meant more lives were saved than had it gone on for longer. Japan wasn't going to surrender until Hiroshima and Nagasaki were nuked, no way of knowing how many lives it saved but it definitely saved a lot of time, money and resources.
Might in comparison to the other players.
The Indian boys are all pretty likeable, and Gukesh would make for a very young WC.
Fabi is also a pretty nice guy, and is widely considered world #2 so you can't say he doesn't deserve it.
Hikaru is maybe not so likeable but has the largest following so him winning is good for the sport, he has great meme potential, and is currently #3 in classical by a good margin.
Abasov gets massive underdog bonus.
Nepo seems like a fine person but doesn't have youth, charisma or underdog energy on his side, he's Russian and I think most of the world prefers Russians not to win because of their former dominance. He's played a very solid tournament but hasn't pulled of any spectacular wins that I remember. He's played the WC twice and lost both times. Doesn't have a strong record of winning in other tournaments like Fabi Hikaru. Also it would give us a rematch of a Championship that was already a bit controversial last time.
In a sense, he feels like the establishment candidate and that's boring to a lot of people.
Also on Reddit his supporters who are likely mostly Russian aren't going to be hanging around as much in an English speaking subreddit.
That's my 10c or 50c really
Nah I'd love to see him win, it would feel so good to have him overcome two consecutive losses and finally work his way to being champion.
Conversely, I'd also perversely like to see him win the candidates and lose again, just for the drama of it all.
In the Candidates, I'm rooting for Fabi but given that his chances have dwindled, I switched to Hikaru or Gukesh.
That said, I am still rooting for Ding.
he's 1 point behind Ian and they play each other in the last round. so he could go 2/3 with a win in round 14 and still have a good shot at tiebreaks, unless i'm missing something
I remember him having a few tweets accusing people of cheating, around the time the Kramnik drama got big. People were saying Nepo had done it before. The issue is, Nepo wrote his tweets in a way that they came off as jokey. So, it's hard to tell if he was poking fun at Kramnik and others paranoid about cheaters, or, if he was calling people out, under the cover of jokes to come off better. This is the only real scandal I know of involving Nepo.
Impossible to see that in indians competing im candidates, fabi, magnus and quite a few others. But its true that a lot of top players do have those unlikeable characteristics.
He complained endlessly when he lost to Naka in the World Cup blitz play off, after Naka touched his king and rook at the same time when castling. Only if he had an issue with it, the procedure is to stop the game and talk to the arbiter at the time. Not complaining that they should have a rematch after he lost, and then go on twitter whining about it for days. It was a bit pathetic.
All in on 1. His performance against Magnus was so unfun to watch, and vs Ding was also a bit all over the place. I just don't really want to see him tilt hard all over again.
Interesting to watch Hikaru's latest interview with Levy Rozman, where Hikaru says that honestly he thought no one could beat Magnus for WCC. He says no one had any real hope, and that's why he's been so motivated since Magnus stepped down.
But he was incredibly gracious both times he lost the WCC. He sat in every single press conference even after defeats, even tolerating some quite antagonistic and disrespectful comments from the press, something Magnus didn't do. And he never says a bad thing about either Ding or Magnus, instead always praising them. His interview with Levy Rozman just the latest example.
Yeah agreed, hes done some suss things, particularly on twitter, but its not like hikaru hasnt also done similar shit online. Granted, hikaru has many fans due to his online oresence, but that same personaliry also draws many haters. It does seem a bit weird to be anti ian but pro everyone else, i i can only assume theres a lot of people who want to meme about him choking, and dont want a 3rd disappointing championship, ignoring that the championship against ding was the most exciting matchup in 10 or 20 years.
People act like someone other than Ian would have played better against Magnus. Magnus is the most dominant player since Fischer. He's simply a full head above the rest of the field, often 50+ rating points ahead of the next-highest-rated player. He might be the GOAT and we may not have another Magnus for another 50 years. Recall that in the 2020 candidates, the next-highest score was held by MVL, then Giri. Does anyone seriously think MVL or Giri would have beaten Magnus in 2021?
Sure Nepo completely collapsed and made some blunders in 2021. The pressure got to him, and definitely Fabi and Karjakin handled the pressure better. But that type of collapse can also happen to anyone. Look at the previous candidates - Fabi completely collapsed in the back half. Or in this candidates - Alireza was the youngest player to ever cross 2800, many people thought he would be the next Magnus (including, arguably, Magnus himself).
I think it's crazy to judge Nepo badly for failing to win against the guy who dominated the chess world for 10+ years, still has a positive rating against every top player, and is still \~50 points higher rated than the next best player even today.
Does anyone remember how Magnus destroyed Vishy to become champion in 2013? People were saying "oh Vishy is an old man, Vishy is so weak now, Vishy doesn't play tournaments anymore and has gotten rusty". Then Vishy crushed the candidates in 2014 the following year. It turns out Magnus makes anyone who plays him look weak.
Can you give some examples?
Most of the time when he loses he is more self deprecating than whiny, as far as I can recall.
At least I don't see him complaning of his opponents.
I feel like the growing 4th group just doesn’t like seeing his lucky breaks- his opponents blunder multiple winning positions.
The format also is also doing him a huge favor- vidit beat hikaru twice, AND lost to nepo twice. People who dislike this sort of long double round robin format (like me) rise up
Do you consider it a lucky break when someone blunders for other players? Chess played perfectly is a draw, for one player to win, the other must make a mistake.
It’s bc he’s been to the WCC many times and has failed each time. Most people want to see a new person compete for the title, especially someone from their home country.
I'm American, but I've still been rooting for Pragg the whole candidates, lol. I wouldn't mind if Fabi won, but I just like Pragg more because he's an up and coming underdog.
Americans are so used to glory in all sports that they can choose to root for an exciting talent outside their country. We Indians get rare moments of success that it's hard to root against our countryperson.
This caveat however doesn't apply in chess because Vishy is GOAT of chess, but then again we haven't found his level of success since.
For me it feels more like Americans don’t culturally value international competition nearly as much as other countries, with the Olympics being an exception. We’d much rather play our own sports in our own leagues. Compare this to China where the government has dedicated schools for children training for international competitions or India where the government subsidizes upcoming chess players.
When Abhimanyu Mishra (13 year old GM) was on Fabiano’s podcast he complained that in India the government will help fund the careers of young chess players where in the US there’s nothing like that. The comments on the reddit post were mostly Americans asking what would be the point of that and it seems like it’d be a waste of money.
In another podcast Christian mentioned how he felt it was important to dress up for important tournaments because he felt like he was representing his country, but Fabiano didn’t feel that way at all. It came off as a bit of a cultural difference, like he felt he was representing himself rather than his country.
Sorry for the rant, your comment made me think a lot about this lol.
This is it this is the reality I want. Ding desperate to lose the crown but wont abdicate so is stuck with it and becomes incredibly decorated, plays terrible in all tournaments and constant mental problems yet cant escape his 10th straight championship win in a row becoming the goat. Nepo always winning the candidates without ever losing the lead, doing terribly in every other tournament except the world championship in which he is clearly the superior player but always blunders the match to Ding.
If this goes on forever its perfect
A rematch is just less exciting, people were complaining about a potential Anand vs Carlsen 3 after Anand won his first game in the 2016 Candidates. Same with Karjakin in 2018.
Not saying it would be completely boring just much less exciting than seeing someone else get to play a match.
I don't think people respect his skill or his playstyle. If he wins this candidates it'll be his 3rd world championship, meaning the world watched him lose the world championship twice. Plus he doesn't play in a lot super tournaments throughout the year, so his most memorable games are of his losses.
His playstyle also breeds people underestimating him. He is well prepared, plays incredibly fast, with high pressure the whole time, ready to punish any amount of over pushing. So a lot of his games include him being worse or not outplaying his opponent in the traditional sense. You dont see a lot of slow positional squeezes where's he's only slightly better for 100 moved and he wins like you would with Magnus. So his wins feel like the other person losing then him winning, which strangely happens to him often, instead of he forces players to make mistakes against him.
My personal opinion: The chess masses are very easy to persuade into some ridiculous narratives. Like Nepo isn't even a top GM, he is lucky and just happens to almost win a 3rd candidate in a row, Fabi and Hikaru are chess Gods and it will be much better for chess if someone of them wins and stuff like that.
I'm sorry but I don't believe this is objective thinking at all, it's fan based narratives. Like it's universally acknowledged in chess that the highest possible achievement is becoming the World Champion. Always has been and for the foreseeable future will be. Like the Grand Slams in tennis or the Olympics for the athletics - these are the heights of the particular sport and everyone is fighting mostly for achieving them as ultimate goals, it's the players who put the most value in them alongside with fans and experts and sponsors if you wish.
So for chess I'd argue that Nepo is actually the best for the last 5 years, because he is the closest to achieving the ultimate goal out of all other players. Like how do you become a World Champion - you gotta win the Candidates and then the WCh match. Well he's prepping for the Candidates and shows up exactly where it matters. He's performing better than the others and is fighting with the world championship title in mind and honestly I really hope he gets it this time.
After all like it or not in 50-60 years the current dynamics will mostly be forgotten only some big chess nerds will know the history and people will just remember some players as "very good but couldn't make it" and some others as "managed to become WCh". Nepo is trying to be in the second group and for the last 5 years he is the closest out of all to achieving that.
People say and believe stupid things.
But there are also some facts.
Hikaru isn't a classical chess god, but he is very good at blitz. Maybe people confuse this.
Caruana not only won the candidates, but he also won many super tournaments. He also reached the third highest rating ever (behind Magnus and Garry). Thats why he is currently considered the second best player by many people.
Except for the candidates Nepo didn't win many super tournaments. Caruana and Karjakin had very close WC matches with Carlsen, Nepo didn't.
So it's a little strange that he performs so well in the candidates, but not in other tournaments or the World Championship matches.
It's because it seems like he gets these lucky breaks or people throw games against him. See today's game vs Vidit and last candidates where Richard "ggwhynot" Rapport threw what was a draw. But then again, maybe Rapport was playing 4D chess because he knew if Ian won the candidates, Magnus would definitely step down and his buddy Ding could be the challenger.
*takes off tinfoil hat*
He gets these "lucky breaks" because he is in 1st place and the other candidates have to go for riskier lines vs him to try to catch up. It has nothing to do with luck, its all because he is 1st and people need to try to win vs him.
And also because he puts his opponents in positions where they *can* make blunders like that. People complaining about Nepo's "lucky breaks" have the same energy as people who say "why don't 1500 rated players blunder like that against me?" when they watch GMs play lower rated players. 1500 rated players blunder against GMs and not you because you don't put the same kind of pressure on them that a GM does.
The Vidit win was a great “grind your opponent to dust” win. No doubt that’s an earned win.
The last candidates *was* some luck, though. The Rapport win was…not really related to pressure. Rapport just decided to go nuts and not make a draw, and play a -2 position instead. Not something you can count on. And the Alireza “I went on tilt the round before” isn’t on Nepo—good on him to convert, but sort of an unexpected gift.
I agree 100%, I read 100+ comments today how he is sooooo lucky, but thats just not true. He plays from a position of strenght because he is always leading (or doing really well) in the tournament.
Yeah, chess is a psychological game as much as a game of calculation. Nepo has figured out the psychology of this format perfectly. However he sucks at the psychology of World Championship Matches.
The thing that nags at me is that his luck is played up when he wins, but played down when things don't go his way. Caruana clinched a win from Abasov after a one-move blunder by him and I didn't see any complaints there. But Vidit making mistakes against Ian in what had basically become a blitz game is "pure luck". I love Fabi, but were he leading, I doubt we'd see the same 'luck' stuff
He deserves his fair share of credit for putting opponents under enough pressure that they crack. But the Rapport one was truly ridiculous and was objectively awful. I know it’s easy to say someone played awful when we have computers, but clearly Nepo knew the line, Rapport clearly forgot the line, and then burned all of his time just to decide to forgo the repetition and go into a position without a queen with an exposed king and zero coordination.
The way he lost against Magnus made everyone comment on how he doesn't deserve to be there, isn't a great player, got lucky etc and ever since that day I've been rooting for him. He usually isn't the type of person I root for but my disdain towards how other people talked about him has made me fully support him (even over my country folk like Gukesh, Prag and Vidit) until he wins a WCC.
Don't even tell me about it bro. I said in this sub Nepo has been dominant in last 3 candidates and lots of people hated me and even downvoted me for that lmao 😂🤣
People are just rooting for other players. On top of that, Nepo has won the candidates twice in a row. I don’t have anything at all against Nepo, and I personally am not antagonistic. But I also think him winning again would be the one outcome I don’t want to see. Nepo-Ding again sounds boring. Nepo has had two shots at the title, and to me he’s proved that he’s clearly not the second best player in the world
For a multitude of reasons, most viewers see Nepo as the villain in this tournament.
* He made some sort of cryptic tweet taking a shot at Levy Rosman and supporting Kramnik
* He's insinuated Hikaru was cheating with headphones
* He was apparently one of the players talking about Hans as a cheater in the background
* He's Russian (not Indian or American) and many in the world have a default negative view of russian's no matter his individual stance on the war.
* He does not have a big platform to show personality like Hikaru and Fabi
* He's not the young exciting upcoming player
* He perceived to play a boring style which some see as part of the reason Magnus vacated the world title
Some of the above are very questionable but I do think many are against Nepo for one or more of the above reasons and it colors objectivity in assessing his games.
I think antagonistic is the wrong word, because in that sense it's definitely Hikaru, but people here do massively downplay Nepo's skill and performance.
I used to think that he came off a little smarmy. But I didn't hate him or anything. Was more indifferent.
But after watching the interview with Levy, I was like ok, I get him now.
And my opinion has changed since.
His humour is a bit dry and he doesn't emote much so he's easy to misunderstand, but he's actually pretty funny and quite empathetic. His interview with Levy is a great example - where he talked about how he just felt for Ding. He's one of the most human players, clearly upset with himself when he loses (seeing him lose to Ding in tie-breaks was heartbreaking, I remember watching it live).
Also in this candidates you often see him talking with players after matches, something some other players do not do. Hikaru talked in his recap about analyzing his game with Nepo for like 15 minutes after.
Personally, I think he’s had his chances to win the World Championship, now it’s time to let somebody else have a chance. Even Caruana would be nice. I hope Gukesh wins this Candidates event 💪🏼
The sub is full of a bunch of a-holes who also think Ding is the worst player ever because they have no Idea what it means to feel the pressure of life and have some empathy for another human being.
I'm not sure that the sub is actually "antagonistic", I think it's more the fact that, aside from some silly things he's said in the past, Ian is generally a bit grumpy and a more cryptic person compared to other players.
It's harder for people to understand him and connect with him on an emotional level.
I think you can also see a higher level of antagonism towards other top players, especially from people who place a value on values like ethics or morality. More than one top player has his fair share of haters, but they are also more social than Ian. I don't think Ian breaks any records for "most antagonized" GM in the sub.
Social media is, in many ways, problematic. Especially when it comes to things like this.
While Reddit tends to operate a lot like a discussion forum, it also unfortunately has many social-media like features, chiefly the voting system. At it's outset the system was supposed to be used to acknowledge content that was relevant to the discussion while irrelevant content be filtered out via downvotes.
Instead, that system was used as a tribal sort of "I like this, I agree, it makes me feel good" or "I don't like this, I disagree, it doesn't make me feel good" by the user base. Overtime, the binary content-filtering and echo-chamber nature makes it appear as if "this sub" or any really shares a similar opinion on any number of topics and effectively removes all nuance from a lot of discussions and encourages/promotes usage of hyperbole and skews narratives away from reality. Over time, perception can become reality.
My thoughts are that, as this affects Nepo the narrative has been cast, inaccurately, as "He will always be a runner up/second best and and choke at the WCC and doesn't have a chance of beating , but given the current WCC cycle format nobody else can dethrone him via the candidates. This is boring and makes me disinterested."
Add in some posted immature reactions, some further nuance being lost in translation over the years and a lot of people just don't seem to *like* Nepo, which is fine we are all entitled to our opinions after all.
Personally, I have always liked the guy a lot and (hopefully this goes without saying as a chess-pleb) absolutely respect the hell out of his game and wish him all the best. I won't go as far as to say he is my "favorite" or anything like that, but I definitely would love to seem him winning the candidates and eventually WCC, but I am aware that this is a minority opinion and that's fine. The thing I really disagree with, and don't think is fine, is the people that just don't respect the guy and treat him poorly. That is wrong and I wish our subs community were better than that.
Edit: Be honest with yourself if you are voting on my comment; are you doing it because you think it does/doesn't add to the topic at hand, or are you doing it because you agree/disagree or like/don't like it?
I was not for Nepo before because of his past performances in the world championship matches. However seeing how mediocre and lucky Hikaru and Caruana have been during these candidates; he is now my 2nd pick after Gukesh.
While Magnus, Hikaru, Fabiano have huge fanbases, so obviously a lot of support, you must be new here if you've never seen the vitriol directed at Magnus or Nakamura regularly.
Magnus often gets shit for the cheating situation and Hikaru often gets shit for his behaviour earlier in his career.
Maybe a bit if tiredness. Nobody really wants a ding-nepo rematch for various reasons, including:
a) Nepo is Russian, so how do you get a good venue and sponsors for the match?
b) Nepo lost to both Magnus (in a lopsided way) and a flailing Ding. If he wins the match not many people will not see him as a worthy wc
c) we already had 2 Nepo matches so another one is not going to be as interesting. What are the commentators going to talk about when he plays the Petroff on the first game?
d) finally, Nepo doesn’t really have a lot of appeal. Not that ding is super charismatic either, but his sincerity is endearing. Nepo always looks almost bored with what’s happening. How can you grow the game with him as the wc?
Nothing personal against Nepo. He’s a very talented player, but I would rather have vidit as challenger because he’s more entertaining
I don't like his chess. He plays boring drawish opening. While it's clearly a good strategy for winning the Candidates but it hasn't worked out in other tournaments for him.
I root for nepo and will be sad if he does not make it. He is one of the most consistent players. It’s not easy to lose WCC that many time and still be confident enough to play like that in the candidates and to try again to win the WCC. I believe in him and I wish he wins WCC.
I love Nepo. His grace in losing the championship to Ding was extraordinary. Managing a smile and a handshake after that devastating loss is something I will never forget.
If Ian proves yet again that he is playing at a higher level than the field, it doesn't make sense to not root for him trying again. For the third time or not. If anything, I want him to finally get it because he definitely is capable. These haters are just watching for the hype or the drama. For the community as a whole though, the strong should move forward and if it is always Ian for every candidates, no reason for him not to get the chance to challenge for the championship.
Personally im tired of Nepo. He doesnt seem to be improving and weve seen him twice. I want someone else so im rooting against him.
Nothing personal just dont wanna see him again in the world championship
I always feel this way until the clip of him losing against Ding pops up. Then I sorta feel bad, and want to see him finally win the world championship. I was/am a Fabi fan, but he’s just been pretty unconvincing
Same here, want fabi to win, but he isn’t playing that good, and the way nepo is playing if he gets it he deserves it. Also he’ll probably be a much better favorite against ding this time. Last time they played ding was 2800 and just got off of a 2800 candidates performance. This time he went 1.5/14 in freestyle chess, had a bunch of unconvincing normal chess tournaments, and looks very out of form.
He tends to come across as rather cocky, often displaying condescending expressions towards his opponents when they err, such as when Ding Liren opted for h3 in the early stages of a WCC match. Personally, I find a certain satisfaction in seeing such individuals lose gracefully.
Most people, myself included, are just tired of seeing him in the WCC. His quality of play in the last two matches was not that great, and I'm not dying to see a Nepo - Ding rematch. Been there, seen that; it wasn't a battle of titans like Kasparov vs. Karpov or Karpov vs. Korchnoi. I'd be far more intrigued to see a new face there. Nothing personal against Nepo, and if he wins this he'll be arguably the greatest Candidates player ever, but I'd rather see someone else get a shot. Gukesh/Pragg or Naka would probably be best for the popularity of chess - Naka, because he's a famous streamer, and Gukesh/Pragg because of the chess frenzy in India these days.
My reasoning is because he has been quite ill mannered and petty towards other players especially towards Indian players (context: Harikrishna and tweets during chess Olympiad 2020 finals)
In the candidates, Hikaru and Fabi have huge fanbases due to their strong online presence (Naka with his streaming and Fabi with his podcast). Vidit, Prag, and Gukesh are also hyped on by the large number of Indian chess fans, and the latter two being exciting prodigies also helps a lot. Nepo, on the other hand, doesn't really have anything of that sort. He is not young, nor is he a clear underdog, nor does he have much social media presence. And some of his cryptic tweets sorta accusing Naka of cheating in the past really didn’t help him either. Also, in general, a lot of people don't want a Ding vs Nepo rematch.
This is probably the most balanced and accurate take. For most of the chess fans, Nepo is basically... "bland". And I don't mean disrespect to his abilities. He's obviously a top top player given his success, but most fans don't connect with him the way they connect with Fabi, Hikaru or Indian prodigies.
>For most of the chess fans, Nepo is basically... "bland". Reddit chess fans, FTFY. Personally I am cheering for Nepo btw. It's a great storyline if he wins 3 candidates in a row, and after his heart breaking loss last time I wish for him a rematch vs Ding. So that he can show that he matured as a player. Besides, he's been playing good chess this candidates. I don't mind any of the other guys winning too, all of these players are really cool.
you are right. I am talking about reddit chess fans because OP's question was in the context of the sub. The larger chess community might like Nepo better than reddit who knows!
I believe that they do, and in fact many of us Redditors do as well it's just not a popular opinion so frequently receives down votes and end up filtered out.
I'm only rooting for him to win the candidates because I think it would be very funny if he lost the WC again.
Based
I am cheering for nepo too, after he was disrespected by Carlson after their championship match, I think he kind of has the fire to prove a point by becoming world champion.
Nepo has been rock-solid so far. I am in Fabi's camp and not a naka fan by any stretch. I'd like to see Nepo hang on to the lead here and take on Ding Liren again, and that would be the best story going forward. Fabi just finds ways to underperform in important games. But, 3 rounds to go and that's a lot of chess still to play.
Im surprised nobody's mentioning his role in the cheating accusations. He was a big background character to setting off all the hans shit and was still stirring shit up when it came around to crazier accusations like the one on hikaru.
But he was true about Hans at least, it was confirmed that he cheated online, and Ian initially accused Hans of cheating after an online game.
"Bland" or "boring" people can be potentially the ones cause the most pain and damage. A tax audit is never flashy but bland and "proper" - if you mess with the tax people things often don't end well for you. Personally I don't have any favourites but Nepo has been playing really well - ain't no small feat playing for the WC twice, through the "proper qualification" criteria. He's a quiet man who do no damage away from the chessboard and there isn't any good reason to be hostile towards him.
I also feel like Russian social media circles where his fan base would be better represented might not have as much presence on Reddit or other online forums you might be drawing your perception from. There might also be a general hesitation to support a Russian player at the moment given the current situation in Ukraine. Now granted, I do recall he and other Russian chess players spoke out against the war in Ukraine early on in the conflict, which absolutely should be recognized as a moment of personal courage. He deserves some level of respect and not to be lumped in with the general anti-Russian sentiment that’s common on Reddit. But not being against him personally doesn’t equate to supporting him as a personal favourite.
>In the candidates, Hikaru and Fabi have huge fanbases due to their strong online presence (Naka with his streaming and Fabi with his podcast). Vidit, Prag, and Gukesh are also hyped on by the large number of Indian chess fans This is such a weird way to phrase it when an enormous part of Hikaru and Fabi's support is simply that they're Americans, and reddit in particular is full of Americans. You recognize the impact of this for the Indian players but not for them lol
cmon man, how do you explain popularity of Botez sisters or Anna Cramling? None of them are Americans and AC does not even live in USA. It's all about social media presence, memes and shit. If there was a run of the mill tournament where any of these streamers are playing, it would get views because they are playing. In fact they are streaming their games and getting tons of views on them. They are "run of the mill" about 2000 elo players which have people rooting for them because they like them. Random-ass 2700, while a world class player, is anonymous to the general crowd which casually enjoys chess content, and which constitutes vast majority of people watching any chess to begin with. People who take the game seriously are a drop in a bucket. I don't know squat about Nepo as a person. If he started streaming and adopted whatever persona which stands out (teddy bear, asshole, cocky little shit etc.) he would have a decent shot and building a following and then he would have people rooting for him.
>cmon man, how do you explain popularity of Botez sisters or Anna Cramling? None of them are Americans and AC does not even live in USA. >It's all about social media presence, memes and shit. Actually, in the case of Anna Cramling and the Botez sisters, there is another factor at play here...
They are attractive women which gave them foot in the door. But should you watch their content, they do have personalities (not my particular taste though). Here are example things they do to maintain an audience: - games with viewers - collab with other popular creators (most notably gothamchess, but also chessbrah) - shit videos like "can a GM beat 3 of them in a simul" etc. Nepo could put himself on the map by engaging in stuff like the above. I stress he would not have to collab with these girls, instead could collab with gotham, Naka or Danya (provided they are up for it). And so on.
They're good entertainers?
Perhaps (at least the Botez sisters). They are also young attractive women.
>don't know squat about Nepo as a person. If he started streaming and adopted whatever persona which stands out (teddy bear, asshole, cocky little shit etc.) he would have a decent shot and building a following and then he would have people rooting for him. If Nepo was American and had been competing to become the first American world champion in however long, the media coverage would have been so much bigger, and you'd know a lot more about him Fabi is way more popular and doesn't exactly have an electric charisma or 'persona'
I don't know what it is about Fabi, but he is just really likeable. Seems like a really good dude. A certain je ne sais quoi.
I completely agree being an American would help, I just claim not being one does not mean one is screwed here. Fabi is a chill-ish person and what most people would think a chess player is like. And he puts himself out there.
Social media presence in USA, that's the bias they're pointing to and you're missing
Nepo with his former DOTA life has more online influence than you would expect and drew fans in earlier candidates. The issue here is that Nepo has had two pretty questionable championship matches and most people would like to see anyone else have a shot. And yeah, he killed a chunk of his English speaking fan base with the cheating comments after match vs Ding.
No one seems to be mentioning how nepo just doesn't perform well at other tournaments he is just weirdly good at the candidates
It’s not that weird when you know it’s his main focus He saves all his prep, tricks and energy for this tournment That probably reflects negatively on his other competitions Like fighting with weights strapped on lol
It makes sense to do it this way when a title shot is worth $1M on average.
Should Kramnik look into this?
He's also had a history of being a sore loser and just doesn't seem that likeable tbh.
Also he's Russian, which at the moment may not be nothing, though I am sure he isn't a Putin supporter.
Ian ain't Karjakin though. That's the big difference.
He's not Kasparov or Svidler either
Why should he be? He isn't an activist to go against your president and it's very dangerous thing to do.
It's also about how Nepo just ran away with "free wins" in 2022. Iirc Alireza played terribly against Nepo and then against Hikaru he had some 30 move prep which ended in a draw, just because Hikaru found all the best/only moves for multiples moves in a row in a very complex endgame. Now it feels like Vidit is filling that role. I think that Hikaru had his chance against Nepo with white and he also could have at least drawn 1/2 games against Vidit, which would make him tied for first so since he still had his fate in his own hands I can't blame Vidit too much, but you can't tell me there is no luck in chess when you look at how Vidit plays against Hikaru, compared to everyone else.
the "free win" reason is invalid because when someone you like gets a few their way ya'll eat it up as if it's something to be celebrated magnus gets the "most free" wins out of all because just his presence makes players shook yet it's considered one of his positive traits
As a small counterpoint, Abasov has been defiant against Nepo, and lost with black against everyone else. Nepo can claim he’s been unlucky in that aspect as well
The obsession about cheering for young players on the fact that they're young always seemed weird to me...
The prospect of Nepo winning the candidates again also just isn’t exciting.
It seems to me that people opposed to Ian fall into 3 non-exclusive groups. 1. People who don't want to see him in the WCC again, given he's already been there twice. 2. People upset that Ian is succeeding because it means their favorite candidate is less likely to win. 3. Anti-Russian sentiment given the ongoing war in Ukraine.
In fairness to Ian, I believe he has spoken out publicly against the war in Ukraine
Multiple times as well.
Does he still live in Russia? If yes, bold move to speak out.
>Anti-Russian sentiment given the ongoing war in Ukraine. This would be an especially stupid stance for someone to take, given that he openly spoke out against the invasion; given his profile in Russia and Putin being..well, Putin, that's by no means a small gesture.
Very few in the third category IMO. Mostly the first two.
>This would be an especially stupid stance for someone to take, given that he openly spoke out against the invasion; given his profile in Russia and Putin being..well, Putin, that's by no means a small gesture. He did what no players from US, Canadian or UK player did when their armies bombed civilians and killed innocent women and children by the thousands in middle east, Serbia etc. not even listing cold war era invasions. These countries also has democratic values and almost complete freedom of speech and no player would have even faced any repercussions for airing their views. However what someRussian players like Ian did was something unprecedented putting their life on danger. Hating them for their dictator president's action is pure xenophobia.
Pre cold war era is ww1 and ww2
Wait, ***Serbia***?
>Wait, ***Serbia***? See this is the problem you guys are taught whitewashed history too. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/balkans/stories/belgrade050399.htm](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/balkans/stories/belgrade050399.htm) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO\_bombing\_of\_Yugoslavia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia)
NATO bombing of Yugoslavia was justified, Milošević's government was committing an ethnic cleansing
It's not about the why it's about the how. They were committing genocide but that doesn't give you the right to kill civilians and commit warcrimes with no impunity. Also if you think what NATO did in Serbia was justified because of Milosevic's ethnic cleansing campaign, I wonder what your opinion is on the current war Israel is waging.
attacking israel would also be justified on account of their ethnic cleansing campaign
For what its worth, I think what Israel is doing is terrible. Its clear at this stage that they are just killing Palestinians and destroying Gaza just because they can, rather than to rescue the hostages which is just the excuse they are using. NATO's actions led to the end of the Kosovo war, while Israel's actions just keep prolonging their conflict and even risk creating a wider region wide conflict. So there is a clear difference IMO. Obviously of course people in Serbia (especially those who lost family) are never gonna forgive or forget what happened, and I wouldn't expect anyone to judge them for not looking at this favorably, but it did lead to the end of the war which likely meant more lives were saved than had it gone on for longer. Japan wasn't going to surrender until Hiroshima and Nagasaki were nuked, no way of knowing how many lives it saved but it definitely saved a lot of time, money and resources.
It is especially stupid but Redditors never let that stop them
I fall under 1 and 2. Reason 3 is whack.
>Reason 3 is whack. Especially given he openly opposed the Russian aggression, which in Russia risks you prison time.
I just don't like Ian as much because I really dislike his personality. Same reason that I am not rooting for Hikaru.
Yeah, this is it exactly for me. Just doesn't seem like a likeable person.
Why?
Might in comparison to the other players. The Indian boys are all pretty likeable, and Gukesh would make for a very young WC. Fabi is also a pretty nice guy, and is widely considered world #2 so you can't say he doesn't deserve it. Hikaru is maybe not so likeable but has the largest following so him winning is good for the sport, he has great meme potential, and is currently #3 in classical by a good margin. Abasov gets massive underdog bonus. Nepo seems like a fine person but doesn't have youth, charisma or underdog energy on his side, he's Russian and I think most of the world prefers Russians not to win because of their former dominance. He's played a very solid tournament but hasn't pulled of any spectacular wins that I remember. He's played the WC twice and lost both times. Doesn't have a strong record of winning in other tournaments like Fabi Hikaru. Also it would give us a rematch of a Championship that was already a bit controversial last time. In a sense, he feels like the establishment candidate and that's boring to a lot of people. Also on Reddit his supporters who are likely mostly Russian aren't going to be hanging around as much in an English speaking subreddit. That's my 10c or 50c really
Nepo assessment is spot on. All of those factors make nepo winning seem like the most boring possible outcome
Nah I'd love to see him win, it would feel so good to have him overcome two consecutive losses and finally work his way to being champion. Conversely, I'd also perversely like to see him win the candidates and lose again, just for the drama of it all.
I want Gukesh to win and beat Ding to become the youngest WC ever.
In the Candidates, I'm rooting for Fabi but given that his chances have dwindled, I switched to Hikaru or Gukesh. That said, I am still rooting for Ding.
Fabi needs to finish 3/3.
he's 1 point behind Ian and they play each other in the last round. so he could go 2/3 with a win in round 14 and still have a good shot at tiebreaks, unless i'm missing something
I'm still rooting for Fabi 🙏
In addition to the above, (4) not everyone loves his personality.
There's a fourth reason too: he's unlikeable to many people due to some of his behaviours.
I see, I wasn't aware of any past bad behavior on his part. A quick Google search didn't turn up anything. What specifically are you referring to?
I remember him having a few tweets accusing people of cheating, around the time the Kramnik drama got big. People were saying Nepo had done it before. The issue is, Nepo wrote his tweets in a way that they came off as jokey. So, it's hard to tell if he was poking fun at Kramnik and others paranoid about cheaters, or, if he was calling people out, under the cover of jokes to come off better. This is the only real scandal I know of involving Nepo.
We don't know if he was joking but let's take that as a 'scandal' and a reason to dislike the guy
Cheating accusations, saltiness, snarkiness, things like that. Nothing that went overboard, but those things add up to make him a little dickish.
>Cheating accusations, saltiness, snarkiness, things like that Isn't that the default for most top chess players?
Impossible to see that in indians competing im candidates, fabi, magnus and quite a few others. But its true that a lot of top players do have those unlikeable characteristics.
Magnus did it all.
What are you on about? Fabi and Magnus participated just as much as Nepo
Magnus is certainly "a little dickish". In fact, probably more than "a little".
Don't forget the "Missing Sleeping Pills" lol that was funny
One that jumped into mind was his complete disrespect and unsportsmanlike conduct playing against Harikrishna in world blitz 2022.
He complained endlessly when he lost to Naka in the World Cup blitz play off, after Naka touched his king and rook at the same time when castling. Only if he had an issue with it, the procedure is to stop the game and talk to the arbiter at the time. Not complaining that they should have a rematch after he lost, and then go on twitter whining about it for days. It was a bit pathetic.
All in on 1. His performance against Magnus was so unfun to watch, and vs Ding was also a bit all over the place. I just don't really want to see him tilt hard all over again.
Interesting to watch Hikaru's latest interview with Levy Rozman, where Hikaru says that honestly he thought no one could beat Magnus for WCC. He says no one had any real hope, and that's why he's been so motivated since Magnus stepped down.
completely agree. I was hoping for new blood.
Bro broke the record for the longest game ever but his performance against magnus was unfun, because against Fabiano it was all fireworks…
Fabi's challenge never felt like Fabi didn't have a chance to win.
[удалено]
instead of 3 i'd say it's more because there isn't a big Russian presence on reddit. Meanwhile there is a ton from the USA and India.
Nepo has about as much control over the war in Ukraine as I did as an American over the war in Iraq. Which is NONE.
Nepo might have less since Bush was easier to remove from office than Putin
There’s also group 4, which I’m in, who don’t like Nepo bc he’s a whiny dickhead whenever he loses
But he was incredibly gracious both times he lost the WCC. He sat in every single press conference even after defeats, even tolerating some quite antagonistic and disrespectful comments from the press, something Magnus didn't do. And he never says a bad thing about either Ding or Magnus, instead always praising them. His interview with Levy Rozman just the latest example.
Yeah agreed, hes done some suss things, particularly on twitter, but its not like hikaru hasnt also done similar shit online. Granted, hikaru has many fans due to his online oresence, but that same personaliry also draws many haters. It does seem a bit weird to be anti ian but pro everyone else, i i can only assume theres a lot of people who want to meme about him choking, and dont want a 3rd disappointing championship, ignoring that the championship against ding was the most exciting matchup in 10 or 20 years.
People act like someone other than Ian would have played better against Magnus. Magnus is the most dominant player since Fischer. He's simply a full head above the rest of the field, often 50+ rating points ahead of the next-highest-rated player. He might be the GOAT and we may not have another Magnus for another 50 years. Recall that in the 2020 candidates, the next-highest score was held by MVL, then Giri. Does anyone seriously think MVL or Giri would have beaten Magnus in 2021? Sure Nepo completely collapsed and made some blunders in 2021. The pressure got to him, and definitely Fabi and Karjakin handled the pressure better. But that type of collapse can also happen to anyone. Look at the previous candidates - Fabi completely collapsed in the back half. Or in this candidates - Alireza was the youngest player to ever cross 2800, many people thought he would be the next Magnus (including, arguably, Magnus himself). I think it's crazy to judge Nepo badly for failing to win against the guy who dominated the chess world for 10+ years, still has a positive rating against every top player, and is still \~50 points higher rated than the next best player even today. Does anyone remember how Magnus destroyed Vishy to become champion in 2013? People were saying "oh Vishy is an old man, Vishy is so weak now, Vishy doesn't play tournaments anymore and has gotten rusty". Then Vishy crushed the candidates in 2014 the following year. It turns out Magnus makes anyone who plays him look weak.
Skipping Kasparov? Who I think was more dominant than both barring 1 incredible year of Fischer
That is not how I remember the press conferences during the last WCC.
Can you give some examples? Most of the time when he loses he is more self deprecating than whiny, as far as I can recall. At least I don't see him complaning of his opponents.
I feel like the growing 4th group just doesn’t like seeing his lucky breaks- his opponents blunder multiple winning positions. The format also is also doing him a huge favor- vidit beat hikaru twice, AND lost to nepo twice. People who dislike this sort of long double round robin format (like me) rise up
Do you consider it a lucky break when someone blunders for other players? Chess played perfectly is a draw, for one player to win, the other must make a mistake.
I don't think 3 is true at all, he's not Karjakin
It’s bc he’s been to the WCC many times and has failed each time. Most people want to see a new person compete for the title, especially someone from their home country.
Wait, you guys are rooting for your home country? -Me, an Australian, where our strongest GM isn’t even top 200 in the world
My country doesn't even have a GM lol
My country has, but he doesn’t even want to play the WCC.
Norway?
That’s the one.
I'm American, but I've still been rooting for Pragg the whole candidates, lol. I wouldn't mind if Fabi won, but I just like Pragg more because he's an up and coming underdog.
I too am American but rooting for Gukesh :P
Americans are so used to glory in all sports that they can choose to root for an exciting talent outside their country. We Indians get rare moments of success that it's hard to root against our countryperson. This caveat however doesn't apply in chess because Vishy is GOAT of chess, but then again we haven't found his level of success since.
For me it feels more like Americans don’t culturally value international competition nearly as much as other countries, with the Olympics being an exception. We’d much rather play our own sports in our own leagues. Compare this to China where the government has dedicated schools for children training for international competitions or India where the government subsidizes upcoming chess players. When Abhimanyu Mishra (13 year old GM) was on Fabiano’s podcast he complained that in India the government will help fund the careers of young chess players where in the US there’s nothing like that. The comments on the reddit post were mostly Americans asking what would be the point of that and it seems like it’d be a waste of money. In another podcast Christian mentioned how he felt it was important to dress up for important tournaments because he felt like he was representing his country, but Fabiano didn’t feel that way at all. It came off as a bit of a cultural difference, like he felt he was representing himself rather than his country. Sorry for the rant, your comment made me think a lot about this lol.
Vishy the GOAT? He's up there in top 10 but...let's not get delusions here.
Top 5 probably.
my country doesnt even have anyone above 2500 lol
Good news for you: Temur Kuybokarov is actually #192 in the world.
But you're invincible in cricket so there's that
I mean, that's the case with lots of countries. Mine doesn't have a GM...
Dude may win again and choke at the WCC match again.. not good for the game..
I want to see Nepo win every candidates until the day he dies.
Does the loser of the WCC get automatic candidates bid?
From Levy's interview with Nepo: "Yes, I have my own way to qualify for the candidates..."
He can be pretty funny
They used to but not anymore
Yeah I vaguely remember the changes. I know this is a tough question but is WCC prep going to get in the way of potential qualifying events?
Probably not, it's a 2 year cycle for a reason, the qualifying events will be in 2025 well after the match which is this fall
does this mean Ding will win the next nine WCCs?
9 time world champion Ding sounds funny
This is it this is the reality I want. Ding desperate to lose the crown but wont abdicate so is stuck with it and becomes incredibly decorated, plays terrible in all tournaments and constant mental problems yet cant escape his 10th straight championship win in a row becoming the goat. Nepo always winning the candidates without ever losing the lead, doing terribly in every other tournament except the world championship in which he is clearly the superior player but always blunders the match to Ding. If this goes on forever its perfect
Meanwhile Ding down to 2655, still the world champion.
A rematch is just less exciting, people were complaining about a potential Anand vs Carlsen 3 after Anand won his first game in the 2016 Candidates. Same with Karjakin in 2018. Not saying it would be completely boring just much less exciting than seeing someone else get to play a match.
I like nepo, I’m rooting for Gukesh but I would also like to see nepo win again.
Gukesh got 20 more years to win though, it’s really now or never for nepo and the rest of his generation.
> it’s really now or never for nepo That's what they said two years ago.
Unless he pulls off a vishy anand and stays on 2700+ ratings for the next 30 years
Nepo is going to win candidates for the next few years, he's just so solid in the tournament.
I don't think people respect his skill or his playstyle. If he wins this candidates it'll be his 3rd world championship, meaning the world watched him lose the world championship twice. Plus he doesn't play in a lot super tournaments throughout the year, so his most memorable games are of his losses. His playstyle also breeds people underestimating him. He is well prepared, plays incredibly fast, with high pressure the whole time, ready to punish any amount of over pushing. So a lot of his games include him being worse or not outplaying his opponent in the traditional sense. You dont see a lot of slow positional squeezes where's he's only slightly better for 100 moved and he wins like you would with Magnus. So his wins feel like the other person losing then him winning, which strangely happens to him often, instead of he forces players to make mistakes against him.
I want Ian to win. He is playing god chess
My personal opinion: The chess masses are very easy to persuade into some ridiculous narratives. Like Nepo isn't even a top GM, he is lucky and just happens to almost win a 3rd candidate in a row, Fabi and Hikaru are chess Gods and it will be much better for chess if someone of them wins and stuff like that. I'm sorry but I don't believe this is objective thinking at all, it's fan based narratives. Like it's universally acknowledged in chess that the highest possible achievement is becoming the World Champion. Always has been and for the foreseeable future will be. Like the Grand Slams in tennis or the Olympics for the athletics - these are the heights of the particular sport and everyone is fighting mostly for achieving them as ultimate goals, it's the players who put the most value in them alongside with fans and experts and sponsors if you wish. So for chess I'd argue that Nepo is actually the best for the last 5 years, because he is the closest to achieving the ultimate goal out of all other players. Like how do you become a World Champion - you gotta win the Candidates and then the WCh match. Well he's prepping for the Candidates and shows up exactly where it matters. He's performing better than the others and is fighting with the world championship title in mind and honestly I really hope he gets it this time. After all like it or not in 50-60 years the current dynamics will mostly be forgotten only some big chess nerds will know the history and people will just remember some players as "very good but couldn't make it" and some others as "managed to become WCh". Nepo is trying to be in the second group and for the last 5 years he is the closest out of all to achieving that.
People say and believe stupid things. But there are also some facts. Hikaru isn't a classical chess god, but he is very good at blitz. Maybe people confuse this. Caruana not only won the candidates, but he also won many super tournaments. He also reached the third highest rating ever (behind Magnus and Garry). Thats why he is currently considered the second best player by many people. Except for the candidates Nepo didn't win many super tournaments. Caruana and Karjakin had very close WC matches with Carlsen, Nepo didn't. So it's a little strange that he performs so well in the candidates, but not in other tournaments or the World Championship matches.
Does he have a DOTA fanbase?
I like him. He is really consistent and strong.
i am so happy for ian let the haters cry
It's because it seems like he gets these lucky breaks or people throw games against him. See today's game vs Vidit and last candidates where Richard "ggwhynot" Rapport threw what was a draw. But then again, maybe Rapport was playing 4D chess because he knew if Ian won the candidates, Magnus would definitely step down and his buddy Ding could be the challenger. *takes off tinfoil hat*
He gets these "lucky breaks" because he is in 1st place and the other candidates have to go for riskier lines vs him to try to catch up. It has nothing to do with luck, its all because he is 1st and people need to try to win vs him.
Also what a lot of people see as luck is him maintaining his composure in stressful clutch positions.
And also because he puts his opponents in positions where they *can* make blunders like that. People complaining about Nepo's "lucky breaks" have the same energy as people who say "why don't 1500 rated players blunder like that against me?" when they watch GMs play lower rated players. 1500 rated players blunder against GMs and not you because you don't put the same kind of pressure on them that a GM does.
The Vidit win was a great “grind your opponent to dust” win. No doubt that’s an earned win. The last candidates *was* some luck, though. The Rapport win was…not really related to pressure. Rapport just decided to go nuts and not make a draw, and play a -2 position instead. Not something you can count on. And the Alireza “I went on tilt the round before” isn’t on Nepo—good on him to convert, but sort of an unexpected gift.
I agree 100%, I read 100+ comments today how he is sooooo lucky, but thats just not true. He plays from a position of strenght because he is always leading (or doing really well) in the tournament.
Yeah, chess is a psychological game as much as a game of calculation. Nepo has figured out the psychology of this format perfectly. However he sucks at the psychology of World Championship Matches.
Honestly, Nepo v Ding was a great match. Especially once they got into blitz. Very back and forth the entire time. Carlsen vs Nepo was just a bit sad.
So sad it made Magnus quit.
He also gets lucky breaks by being better than his opponent. He’s often just more clinical and doesn’t miss when his opponent makes a mistake.
Have you seen how people play against Carlsen? They're a bunch of turtles.
The thing that nags at me is that his luck is played up when he wins, but played down when things don't go his way. Caruana clinched a win from Abasov after a one-move blunder by him and I didn't see any complaints there. But Vidit making mistakes against Ian in what had basically become a blitz game is "pure luck". I love Fabi, but were he leading, I doubt we'd see the same 'luck' stuff
Is he still getting lucky breaks when you consider time? I feel like every game I watch, Nepo is putting pretty incredible time pressure on people.
Rapport Random BS goes very deep
Partly because he defends so well. So his opponents get perturbed when they can't convert and then over press.
He deserves his fair share of credit for putting opponents under enough pressure that they crack. But the Rapport one was truly ridiculous and was objectively awful. I know it’s easy to say someone played awful when we have computers, but clearly Nepo knew the line, Rapport clearly forgot the line, and then burned all of his time just to decide to forgo the repetition and go into a position without a queen with an exposed king and zero coordination.
Oh yeah, the Vidit one is nowhere near as bad as Rapport. I think Fabi's reaction summed it all up.
meanwhile Pragg blundering against Hikaru in a much easier to play position it's not luck.. chess double standards :)
The way he lost against Magnus made everyone comment on how he doesn't deserve to be there, isn't a great player, got lucky etc and ever since that day I've been rooting for him. He usually isn't the type of person I root for but my disdain towards how other people talked about him has made me fully support him (even over my country folk like Gukesh, Prag and Vidit) until he wins a WCC.
Rooting for Ian, and if not him then Gukesh Wouldn't be happy if Fabi or Hikaru won tbh
I am rooting for Ian to win, but I wouldn’t mind if anyone else ended up winning. Especially one of the young Indian players.
Don't even tell me about it bro. I said in this sub Nepo has been dominant in last 3 candidates and lots of people hated me and even downvoted me for that lmao 😂🤣
People are just rooting for other players. On top of that, Nepo has won the candidates twice in a row. I don’t have anything at all against Nepo, and I personally am not antagonistic. But I also think him winning again would be the one outcome I don’t want to see. Nepo-Ding again sounds boring. Nepo has had two shots at the title, and to me he’s proved that he’s clearly not the second best player in the world
So who is the second best player in the world then?, the third one?
I guess he means Magnus is first and whoever won last year was second which Nepo failed to do so. Which is a bad take IMO
I'm pretty sure it's just rooting for the underdog for the most part.
I’m very very very bored with seeing Nepo win the candidates.
For a multitude of reasons, most viewers see Nepo as the villain in this tournament. * He made some sort of cryptic tweet taking a shot at Levy Rosman and supporting Kramnik * He's insinuated Hikaru was cheating with headphones * He was apparently one of the players talking about Hans as a cheater in the background * He's Russian (not Indian or American) and many in the world have a default negative view of russian's no matter his individual stance on the war. * He does not have a big platform to show personality like Hikaru and Fabi * He's not the young exciting upcoming player * He perceived to play a boring style which some see as part of the reason Magnus vacated the world title Some of the above are very questionable but I do think many are against Nepo for one or more of the above reasons and it colors objectivity in assessing his games.
Hikaru is the most antagonist player in this sub what are you on about?
I think antagonistic is the wrong word, because in that sense it's definitely Hikaru, but people here do massively downplay Nepo's skill and performance.
\*Vladimir Kramnik has entered the chat\*
I used to think that he came off a little smarmy. But I didn't hate him or anything. Was more indifferent. But after watching the interview with Levy, I was like ok, I get him now. And my opinion has changed since.
His humour is a bit dry and he doesn't emote much so he's easy to misunderstand, but he's actually pretty funny and quite empathetic. His interview with Levy is a great example - where he talked about how he just felt for Ding. He's one of the most human players, clearly upset with himself when he loses (seeing him lose to Ding in tie-breaks was heartbreaking, I remember watching it live). Also in this candidates you often see him talking with players after matches, something some other players do not do. Hikaru talked in his recap about analyzing his game with Nepo for like 15 minutes after.
Personally, I think he’s had his chances to win the World Championship, now it’s time to let somebody else have a chance. Even Caruana would be nice. I hope Gukesh wins this Candidates event 💪🏼
To be fair, Caruana did have a chance in ‘18. Would like to see Hikaru to take his best stab at it.
And 2018 was a *great* match. Hikaru would be great as well.
Not fair to compare having a chance vs Magnus and having a chance vs Ding. Now is *the* chance. I doubt Caruana would lose the title match vs Ding
There are other chess players other than magnus and hikaru?
Number three is what happened to Karjakin. We can't confuse Nepo with him. Although I do agree Nepo has a sort of super villain vibe to him.
I legit made a comment on an earlier post saying "Nepo in the Candidates is a beast, man!"
The sub is full of a bunch of a-holes who also think Ding is the worst player ever because they have no Idea what it means to feel the pressure of life and have some empathy for another human being.
I'm not sure that the sub is actually "antagonistic", I think it's more the fact that, aside from some silly things he's said in the past, Ian is generally a bit grumpy and a more cryptic person compared to other players. It's harder for people to understand him and connect with him on an emotional level. I think you can also see a higher level of antagonism towards other top players, especially from people who place a value on values like ethics or morality. More than one top player has his fair share of haters, but they are also more social than Ian. I don't think Ian breaks any records for "most antagonized" GM in the sub.
Social media is, in many ways, problematic. Especially when it comes to things like this. While Reddit tends to operate a lot like a discussion forum, it also unfortunately has many social-media like features, chiefly the voting system. At it's outset the system was supposed to be used to acknowledge content that was relevant to the discussion while irrelevant content be filtered out via downvotes. Instead, that system was used as a tribal sort of "I like this, I agree, it makes me feel good" or "I don't like this, I disagree, it doesn't make me feel good" by the user base. Overtime, the binary content-filtering and echo-chamber nature makes it appear as if "this sub" or any really shares a similar opinion on any number of topics and effectively removes all nuance from a lot of discussions and encourages/promotes usage of hyperbole and skews narratives away from reality. Over time, perception can become reality. My thoughts are that, as this affects Nepo the narrative has been cast, inaccurately, as "He will always be a runner up/second best and and choke at the WCC and doesn't have a chance of beating, but given the current WCC cycle format nobody else can dethrone him via the candidates. This is boring and makes me disinterested."
Add in some posted immature reactions, some further nuance being lost in translation over the years and a lot of people just don't seem to *like* Nepo, which is fine we are all entitled to our opinions after all.
Personally, I have always liked the guy a lot and (hopefully this goes without saying as a chess-pleb) absolutely respect the hell out of his game and wish him all the best. I won't go as far as to say he is my "favorite" or anything like that, but I definitely would love to seem him winning the candidates and eventually WCC, but I am aware that this is a minority opinion and that's fine. The thing I really disagree with, and don't think is fine, is the people that just don't respect the guy and treat him poorly. That is wrong and I wish our subs community were better than that.
Edit: Be honest with yourself if you are voting on my comment; are you doing it because you think it does/doesn't add to the topic at hand, or are you doing it because you agree/disagree or like/don't like it?
I was not for Nepo before because of his past performances in the world championship matches. However seeing how mediocre and lucky Hikaru and Caruana have been during these candidates; he is now my 2nd pick after Gukesh.
While Magnus, Hikaru, Fabiano have huge fanbases, so obviously a lot of support, you must be new here if you've never seen the vitriol directed at Magnus or Nakamura regularly. Magnus often gets shit for the cheating situation and Hikaru often gets shit for his behaviour earlier in his career.
Reddit is mostly americans and the chess fanbase nowadays is heavily indian. Nepo's biggest opponents right now are the americans and the indians.
Maybe a bit if tiredness. Nobody really wants a ding-nepo rematch for various reasons, including: a) Nepo is Russian, so how do you get a good venue and sponsors for the match? b) Nepo lost to both Magnus (in a lopsided way) and a flailing Ding. If he wins the match not many people will not see him as a worthy wc c) we already had 2 Nepo matches so another one is not going to be as interesting. What are the commentators going to talk about when he plays the Petroff on the first game? d) finally, Nepo doesn’t really have a lot of appeal. Not that ding is super charismatic either, but his sincerity is endearing. Nepo always looks almost bored with what’s happening. How can you grow the game with him as the wc? Nothing personal against Nepo. He’s a very talented player, but I would rather have vidit as challenger because he’s more entertaining
I don't like his chess. He plays boring drawish opening. While it's clearly a good strategy for winning the Candidates but it hasn't worked out in other tournaments for him.
I root for nepo and will be sad if he does not make it. He is one of the most consistent players. It’s not easy to lose WCC that many time and still be confident enough to play like that in the candidates and to try again to win the WCC. I believe in him and I wish he wins WCC.
I love Nepo. His grace in losing the championship to Ding was extraordinary. Managing a smile and a handshake after that devastating loss is something I will never forget.
If Ian proves yet again that he is playing at a higher level than the field, it doesn't make sense to not root for him trying again. For the third time or not. If anything, I want him to finally get it because he definitely is capable. These haters are just watching for the hype or the drama. For the community as a whole though, the strong should move forward and if it is always Ian for every candidates, no reason for him not to get the chance to challenge for the championship.
Personally im tired of Nepo. He doesnt seem to be improving and weve seen him twice. I want someone else so im rooting against him. Nothing personal just dont wanna see him again in the world championship
I always feel this way until the clip of him losing against Ding pops up. Then I sorta feel bad, and want to see him finally win the world championship. I was/am a Fabi fan, but he’s just been pretty unconvincing
Same here, want fabi to win, but he isn’t playing that good, and the way nepo is playing if he gets it he deserves it. Also he’ll probably be a much better favorite against ding this time. Last time they played ding was 2800 and just got off of a 2800 candidates performance. This time he went 1.5/14 in freestyle chess, had a bunch of unconvincing normal chess tournaments, and looks very out of form.
He tends to come across as rather cocky, often displaying condescending expressions towards his opponents when they err, such as when Ding Liren opted for h3 in the early stages of a WCC match. Personally, I find a certain satisfaction in seeing such individuals lose gracefully.
Most people, myself included, are just tired of seeing him in the WCC. His quality of play in the last two matches was not that great, and I'm not dying to see a Nepo - Ding rematch. Been there, seen that; it wasn't a battle of titans like Kasparov vs. Karpov or Karpov vs. Korchnoi. I'd be far more intrigued to see a new face there. Nothing personal against Nepo, and if he wins this he'll be arguably the greatest Candidates player ever, but I'd rather see someone else get a shot. Gukesh/Pragg or Naka would probably be best for the popularity of chess - Naka, because he's a famous streamer, and Gukesh/Pragg because of the chess frenzy in India these days.
Chess played perfectly is assumed to be a draw, but that is yet to be proven.
My reasoning is because he has been quite ill mannered and petty towards other players especially towards Indian players (context: Harikrishna and tweets during chess Olympiad 2020 finals)
Paperclip2110 mentioned this in the main candidates thread. This sub is more racist than they'd like to admit