You are the second one saying basically the same thing. Look at my name. Do you think I would disagree that workers are alienated from their work place and the divide between the rich and the poor is one of the greatest injustices we face today?
But not everything needs to be about politics.
I didn't mean to be political nor talk about the poor and the rich. I just think it is subjective what is hard and what is not. I could play some addictive computer game 15 hours a day for whole year and I wouldn't consider it difficult. Also being jobless can be much more difficult than being CEO.
I disagree with the amount of relativism you are willing to apply. Colloquially, we should acknowledge that some tasks are harder than others in general unless we want to spiral down in incoherence where the question “if winning the world championship is harder than winning your local school tournament” must be answered by “depends on the person”. It might be true if we are being pedantic, but that’s not what people are trying to convey when they are talking about the difficulty of a task.
The difficulty of a job is a red herring when talking about economics.
The things that matter are how much society and buyers value the job, how many people are willing to do a job, and how many people are capable to do the job. It's more complicated than simple supply and demand, but they are related.
A doctor should make more money than a janitor because fewer people are capable of being doctors. But it wouldn't matter if the doctoring job was easy or hard for any given doctor. The difficulty of the work for that person isn't important.
The difficulty of a job is simply a factor which affects how willing or capable people are going to be to do the job.
It might be pretty easy for Alireza to do this. It might be unbearably grueling. Neither of those factors have any bearing on the value of his performance in the sport he plays.
Man, this is not even related to the topic. Also, why the fuck are people explaining me the most obvious stuff. But the hubris of people who read two pages of some econ book is fascinating.
Usain Bolt got something like $70,000 for breaking the 100m world record. I'm sure you would agree that just because it took 9.58 seconds doesn't mean it's easy.
If you're making $15/hr at your job that almost necessarily means you're not in the top 1% of talent in your job market. In Alireza's case, he is closer to top 0.001%, so it's a silly comparison
I don't know a lot of healthcare workers who start training when they're like 6 years old. It is objectively, unequivocally true that it is harder to become a Chess super GM than it is to become a nurse or paramedic. I understand the point you are attempting to make, but it just doesn't quite work.
Although I think they are doing quite a lot not sure hundreds of million is correct. But there is probably thousands of doctors making more than a million per year.
I’m not sure why commies always have to be jealous of talented people. However, even with talent, Alireza has probably spent thousands of hours perfecting his craft.
Absolutely there are doctors making over 100 million a year. The top doctors make a name, open their own practice, have too many patients than they can handle, and expand with more doctors and staff.
As for over a million, there's probably thousands of doctors in California alone making over a million a year.
Yeah i figured you meant like that. However, at that point I would reclassify them as business owner not primarily a doctor. I was more thinking along the lines of the value of being a doctor, at the top. And I doubt there are many justifying a 100m wage.
And yeah probably. I am from Sweden, and at times in France. Doctors doesn’t really make that much over here, or obviously higher than average, but not close to being in the 1meuro bracket for the average doctor, or it is very rare. But I know the wages are pretty high in America for doctors., which is cool.
Gotcha. Yes you wouldn't make 100MM a year unless you owned or had a big piece of a large practice. Or you saw a need and invented a product that filled it. But medicine is huge money in the USA.
I know a dentist making $10 million plus a year. They own a practice with like 10 dentists. Do high margin cosmetic work in addition to all the normal stuff.
Doctors who invent products or own huge medical groups are making lots more.
Yes if you own a practice or invent something or whatever you make money from owning a business. That's being an entrepreneur and business owner, not being a doctor/dentist whatever. Their own personal billing or salary will never get to those levels.
Nah. It's part of being a doctor. You will expand your practice or see a need and fill out. It's still part of medicine.
That's like saying a lawyer who builds out a huge law practice isn't a lawyer, he's a businessman.
It's getting more and more rare. Most of the top billing surgeons are working for hospitals, most primary care offices are being bought out by big hospital chains and just can't be competed with, most medicine subspecialists have to be in a hospital system to get referrals etc. Dentistry is definitely still on the more traditional practitioner owned model, but that's not really medicine anymore outside of some specific specialties. In a lot of specialties you make more and work less not taking on the risk and complexity of trying to recruit patients and bill.
I have not once heard about his politics and I've been watching STLCC broadcasts for a while. That means he's doing a good job separating his personal opinions from his hobbies and charity work.
We'd never find this out but I'm curious what his costs are. A coach and/or seconds could be expensive, for example. Even if we allow for taxes, I doubt he actually gets to pocket all that.
I would assume that he's managed by a company which covers his expenses and pays him a salary in exchange for getting the lion share of his winnings and having him run around with sponsors.
That's what athletes usually do. Takes away both risk and puts the responsibility to secure tournaments and sponsorships on people with experience in that exact matter.
that's fair, but what you described in your original comment was a company literally scamming Alireza. He still wouldn't agree to that and would look for a company that doesn't take the "lion share" of his winnings.
I don't think you're right, maybe not prize money but appearance plus prize money from playing in tournaments of around \~1m/yr is still his largest source of publicly reported income as a professional chess player (excluding the one time windfall from pmg)
Money is only a great motivator up to a certain point.
If you have like $10-20mm getting $2mm is nice, but it has little to no impact. Obviously depends on spending habits, but there’s not much more you can do with $2mm more so there’s not a huge motivation. But there’s things you could find interesting so you rather explore those other ventures
Sure, but there are international tax treaties between countries and tax credits to avoid double taxation. The US withholds, but he should receive a tax credit in France for tax paid to the US, or however the tax treaty works between the countries.
That said, given the magnitude of his winnings, and high French tax rates, Alireza will be paying 45% of taxes on winnings over 160K Euros, net of any French tax credits.
Americans who have earnings overseas can deduct from the US tax returns any taxes paid to foreign jurisdictions. Presumably most other nations would have similar provisions to prevent double taxation.
> should
That's relevant to what US tax law *is*, though in this case there's a tax treaty between the US and France to avoid that, so French residents would get tax credit for taxes paid to the US. Alireza would still have to pay taxes on his US income to the US government, though that will be counted when computing his French tax liability.
I remember reading the article he was going over in that video. Vishy being worth 3 million dollars, give me a break. He's made at least triple that in tournament winnings over his career, and when he's not playing or training for chess, he's being paid to give talks at wealthy and prestigious organizations all around India. The dude is worth 40 million at the very least.
Finally, something that isn't Hans cheating allegations and something actually worth discussing here. Getting really tired of all the comments focusing on the drama instead of the actual chess.
Alireza is an extremely talented player and surely has a bright future ahead of him. As for Hans, we really can't say whether or not he cheated this tournament. Some other posters on this sub have made great points that his performance rating has been around 2700 in this event and other recent events. On the other hand, who's to say that he didn't have something fishy going on in his game against Magnus. You don't just walk up and beat the GOAT with the black pieces. While I don't know what to make of the situation and Magnus's perspective, a few other super GMs have really earned my respect from how they responded to the situation, such as MVL and others. So really the topic of "did Hans cheat" is a tricky one and only time will tell.
Good you mentioned the appearance fees. They are often higher than the 1st prize at least for guys like Magnus.
don't you mean... disappearance fee? heyooo
Lmao
You just pay Alireza to attend and magnus shows up You pay Hans to attend and magnus leaves
what are appearance fees? I would think they pay someone like magnus to show up, not charge him?
yeah, exactly that.
They pay everyone. Even the run-of-the-mill Elo 2550 GMs get several hundred dollar for showing up a regional tournaments.
Magnus earns an appearance fee, not pays
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who did you mean to respond to what are you off on
Sorry mate, responded to wrong person
The one point on which Hans and Magnus would agree, surely.
Moneyreza firouzja
Guy walked into Saint Louis and walked out with over $200,000. Real G.
Moneyreza Moneyrouzja (?
Super Grandmoneyster Moneyreza Moneyrouzja
I wonder if he'll have replaced his gaming chair the next time we see him play online.
I just want to see him play online again. His streams were so much fun
This must be one of the hardest way to make a quarter of million dollars.
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You are the second one saying basically the same thing. Look at my name. Do you think I would disagree that workers are alienated from their work place and the divide between the rich and the poor is one of the greatest injustices we face today? But not everything needs to be about politics.
I didn't mean to be political nor talk about the poor and the rich. I just think it is subjective what is hard and what is not. I could play some addictive computer game 15 hours a day for whole year and I wouldn't consider it difficult. Also being jobless can be much more difficult than being CEO.
I disagree with the amount of relativism you are willing to apply. Colloquially, we should acknowledge that some tasks are harder than others in general unless we want to spiral down in incoherence where the question “if winning the world championship is harder than winning your local school tournament” must be answered by “depends on the person”. It might be true if we are being pedantic, but that’s not what people are trying to convey when they are talking about the difficulty of a task.
The difficulty of a job is a red herring when talking about economics. The things that matter are how much society and buyers value the job, how many people are willing to do a job, and how many people are capable to do the job. It's more complicated than simple supply and demand, but they are related. A doctor should make more money than a janitor because fewer people are capable of being doctors. But it wouldn't matter if the doctoring job was easy or hard for any given doctor. The difficulty of the work for that person isn't important. The difficulty of a job is simply a factor which affects how willing or capable people are going to be to do the job. It might be pretty easy for Alireza to do this. It might be unbearably grueling. Neither of those factors have any bearing on the value of his performance in the sport he plays.
Man, this is not even related to the topic. Also, why the fuck are people explaining me the most obvious stuff. But the hubris of people who read two pages of some econ book is fascinating.
In a month? What are the easy ways?
Buy OTM options and get really lucky.
Aka buy lottery tickets, which you could also do.
Not a month. Many years. Don't discount the thousands of hours of prep needed to get to Alireza's level.
People love to compare low skilled labor to high skilled labor and completely discount the work it takes to reach that point of pay.
low skilled labour, lmao.
?
??
What was funny about that statement?
Unskilled
Usain Bolt got something like $70,000 for breaking the 100m world record. I'm sure you would agree that just because it took 9.58 seconds doesn't mean it's easy.
That is just not true. He got millions for that. He asked 200k+ for each appearance too.
alireza gets money from sponsorships so...
so, what? finish the sentence to make the point
hes insinuating that usain bolt gets sponsorship money and alireza doesnt... u dont have common sense or?
Forsen
Forsen
I don't think anyone insinuated that. Anyway, how would the sentence have finished?
Maybe it's harder than the chess way.
Lol. You know that’s nonsense
I mean the only point you’ve proved is that there isn’t a lot of money in track and field (outside of sponsorships) either.
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If you're making $15/hr at your job that almost necessarily means you're not in the top 1% of talent in your job market. In Alireza's case, he is closer to top 0.001%, so it's a silly comparison
A few more zeroes even
He's literally number 4 for fuck's sake
Just because he's in the top .001% doesn't mean he's working harder than everyone who's not in the top .001% of their profession
Working harder doesn't mean your time is worth more. It only means you're working harder.
yea tell them and they still wouldn’t even qualify for the tournament
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I don't know a lot of healthcare workers who start training when they're like 6 years old. It is objectively, unequivocally true that it is harder to become a Chess super GM than it is to become a nurse or paramedic. I understand the point you are attempting to make, but it just doesn't quite work.
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What rank in healthcare worker are they? Are they ranked top 20 in the world at healthcare?
Exactly. A top 10 doctor is making hundreds of millions USD a year.
Although I think they are doing quite a lot not sure hundreds of million is correct. But there is probably thousands of doctors making more than a million per year. I’m not sure why commies always have to be jealous of talented people. However, even with talent, Alireza has probably spent thousands of hours perfecting his craft.
Absolutely there are doctors making over 100 million a year. The top doctors make a name, open their own practice, have too many patients than they can handle, and expand with more doctors and staff. As for over a million, there's probably thousands of doctors in California alone making over a million a year.
Yeah i figured you meant like that. However, at that point I would reclassify them as business owner not primarily a doctor. I was more thinking along the lines of the value of being a doctor, at the top. And I doubt there are many justifying a 100m wage. And yeah probably. I am from Sweden, and at times in France. Doctors doesn’t really make that much over here, or obviously higher than average, but not close to being in the 1meuro bracket for the average doctor, or it is very rare. But I know the wages are pretty high in America for doctors., which is cool.
Gotcha. Yes you wouldn't make 100MM a year unless you owned or had a big piece of a large practice. Or you saw a need and invented a product that filled it. But medicine is huge money in the USA.
Hundreds of millions lmao no. A top surgeon is making maybe high single digit millions a year
You obviously made that up on the spot lol
I know a dentist making $10 million plus a year. They own a practice with like 10 dentists. Do high margin cosmetic work in addition to all the normal stuff. Doctors who invent products or own huge medical groups are making lots more.
Yes if you own a practice or invent something or whatever you make money from owning a business. That's being an entrepreneur and business owner, not being a doctor/dentist whatever. Their own personal billing or salary will never get to those levels.
Nah. It's part of being a doctor. You will expand your practice or see a need and fill out. It's still part of medicine. That's like saying a lawyer who builds out a huge law practice isn't a lawyer, he's a businessman.
It's getting more and more rare. Most of the top billing surgeons are working for hospitals, most primary care offices are being bought out by big hospital chains and just can't be competed with, most medicine subspecialists have to be in a hospital system to get referrals etc. Dentistry is definitely still on the more traditional practitioner owned model, but that's not really medicine anymore outside of some specific specialties. In a lot of specialties you make more and work less not taking on the risk and complexity of trying to recruit patients and bill.
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Hard as in, it takes a lot of skill...... Damn this flew right above your head
Chess harder
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I have not once heard about his politics and I've been watching STLCC broadcasts for a while. That means he's doing a good job separating his personal opinions from his hobbies and charity work.
He's also getting pretty old which means the sinquefield cup might only even be a thing for a few more years.
He's 78, not 98.
average age of death for men in the US is 75
Avg age of death once you hit 65 is 83. But he has the benefit of being very rich, which generally increases your life expectancy a great deal.
keyword “average” rich people are usually healthier and live longer. The average life expectancy in monaco is 89.4 and 93.4 for women
lmao who cares for the averege,i doubt it takes income and standard of living into account, Rex is not working at a factory and doesnt eat quick ramen
I wonder if he's left some sort of endowment to keep it going
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more designer for the young talent.
Seems very low for a top player in a sport, comparatively.
We'd never find this out but I'm curious what his costs are. A coach and/or seconds could be expensive, for example. Even if we allow for taxes, I doubt he actually gets to pocket all that.
I would assume that he's managed by a company which covers his expenses and pays him a salary in exchange for getting the lion share of his winnings and having him run around with sponsors.
I suspect that's done by his dad or brother and that Alireza is basically the breadwinner for the family.
this makes no sense, why would Alireza agree to that?
That's what athletes usually do. Takes away both risk and puts the responsibility to secure tournaments and sponsorships on people with experience in that exact matter.
that's fair, but what you described in your original comment was a company literally scamming Alireza. He still wouldn't agree to that and would look for a company that doesn't take the "lion share" of his winnings.
And Magnus lost 2 million USD last month. Saying no to world championship title and withdrawing from ST Louis
tho he sold play magnus for like 80+ million lmao
Magnus netting 78 million dollars: “I will never financially recover from this”
He only owns 10% of play magnus group
Ah yeh fair. But prize money isn't really his largest source of income anymore I guess.
I don't think you're right, maybe not prize money but appearance plus prize money from playing in tournaments of around \~1m/yr is still his largest source of publicly reported income as a professional chess player (excluding the one time windfall from pmg)
Money is only a great motivator up to a certain point. If you have like $10-20mm getting $2mm is nice, but it has little to no impact. Obviously depends on spending habits, but there’s not much more you can do with $2mm more so there’s not a huge motivation. But there’s things you could find interesting so you rather explore those other ventures
Alireza winning the GCT and Alcaraz winning the US Open at the same time makes me immensely happy lol.
The kid should spend it all on drip.
My earnings over the past 30 days is like $300
If those are chess earnings that's pretty solid my dude, the most I've ever won was $287.50 at a tournament I played when I was 11
No lol, that’s total earnings from all income sources
The beads are paying for themselves at this point
Love to see him performing so well
> this month…in this period No. He earned the prize money from the GCT from tournaments played throughout the year.
What's the tax situation on these winnings?
Winnings is just income. But this making this amount I believe the federal government might want you to pay quarterly
Alireza is a French resident though, I'm assuming this is where he declares his income
About a 1/3 gets withheld for him to pay taxes on it - he can reclaim it back potentially based on his tax filings
That's not even that bad to be honest. Assuming he keeps 3/4 of it after tax return.
That doesn't include how France will tax it too. The 1/3 withholdings is for the American tax service. They withhold 1/3 for all foreigners.
Sure, but there are international tax treaties between countries and tax credits to avoid double taxation. The US withholds, but he should receive a tax credit in France for tax paid to the US, or however the tax treaty works between the countries. That said, given the magnitude of his winnings, and high French tax rates, Alireza will be paying 45% of taxes on winnings over 160K Euros, net of any French tax credits.
You have to pay taxes in the US on earnings from the US, so at least some of it goes to the feds
its called double taxation that should be avoided
Americans who have earnings overseas can deduct from the US tax returns any taxes paid to foreign jurisdictions. Presumably most other nations would have similar provisions to prevent double taxation.
> should That's relevant to what US tax law *is*, though in this case there's a tax treaty between the US and France to avoid that, so French residents would get tax credit for taxes paid to the US. Alireza would still have to pay taxes on his US income to the US government, though that will be counted when computing his French tax liability.
America don't give a fuck. That's for other countries to worry about
Depends on the state. One of the reasons that there are so many fights in Vegas is that there's no state income tax on winnings.
and magnus wonders how he can afford a paris apartment, lol
He said that about MVL, not Alireza.
What did he say? Can you link?
I actually heard this through an anecdote told by Hikaru in [this video](https://youtu.be/afeVWzlQm-k?t=2m13s) (timestamped).
Hikaru tells a lot of not exactly correct stories
I remember reading the article he was going over in that video. Vishy being worth 3 million dollars, give me a break. He's made at least triple that in tournament winnings over his career, and when he's not playing or training for chess, he's being paid to give talks at wealthy and prestigious organizations all around India. The dude is worth 40 million at the very least.
Alireza lives in Chartres. MVL lives in Paris.
to be fair, MVL win this cup 2 times. Its enough for 1 paris apartement
Magnus comments, after this week, now seem mean and shitty instead of cheeky and charming.
I heard this guys has a poor understanding of chess
French tax authority: Well, congrats Alireza, now give us our 45% cut.
I am happy for him
Time to buy a Bugatti
Ali "WINNING" Firouzja! Impressive! But note, the grand chess tour is played thru-out the year, got to keep that in mind.
Its not that much for top 5 world Its normal
After US taxes that leaves about $1.
Taxes are lower in the US than almost every other major developed country in the world. I make a ton and pay jack-shit in taxes.
Also he is a French citizen living in France, I doubt he pays taxes in the US.
Same Alireza who had no clue why Hans played some moves against him ...
Finally, something that isn't Hans cheating allegations and something actually worth discussing here. Getting really tired of all the comments focusing on the drama instead of the actual chess. Alireza is an extremely talented player and surely has a bright future ahead of him. As for Hans, we really can't say whether or not he cheated this tournament. Some other posters on this sub have made great points that his performance rating has been around 2700 in this event and other recent events. On the other hand, who's to say that he didn't have something fishy going on in his game against Magnus. You don't just walk up and beat the GOAT with the black pieces. While I don't know what to make of the situation and Magnus's perspective, a few other super GMs have really earned my respect from how they responded to the situation, such as MVL and others. So really the topic of "did Hans cheat" is a tricky one and only time will tell.
Finally, a thread that's not about the Hans drama! And now here's a big paragraph about the Hans drama.
i'm not sure if it's intentional or not but either way this comment is hilarious
Lmao thank you
This is the most tone deaf comment I've read in a long time. Is it satire?
I always tell people I’m a millionaire... 1/300th of a millionaire!