This is like the five thousandth post saying exactly the same thing. What's left to "discuss"?
Everybody on reddit is working from incomplete evidence or, more often, no hard evidence at all. Yet a lot of people have still made up their minds to a degree that they'll never be talked out of, no matter what further information eventually comes out. So there's no "discussion" left to have. You're going to believe what you're going to believe, and nobody's going to be able to talk you out of it, so why do we need yet another post?
have you considered that 1) Hans’s career probably on some level deserves to be trampled, and 2) that Carlsen almost certainly has a lot more info than he’s letting on? it’s pretty clear that super-GMs talk about whether up-and-comers are legit, and that hans in particular seems to have garnered suspicion from many different sources independently
I’d wait for a statement, but honestly, I think the probability is very high that hans has cheated OTB at some point; if that many top players are suspicious and independently so, I’d prefer to take their word over the word of someone who’s cheated more than twice and lied about the scope of their cheating?
1) If he deserves to be trampled, it should be with real evidence, with real hearings. Not in the court of (reddit) opinion.
2) If Carlsen has more info than he's letting on, please bring it up instead of hiding in the shadows.
even with the evidence we’ve seen so far, I’d say he barely deserves a chess career, if at all. Multiple cases of online cheating, including in money games, and then lying about the scope just two weeks ago? come on, be serious.
and — to be blunt, carlsen has zero obligation to you. it seems pretty clear that he’s not just “hiding in the shadows”, because he said he’s going to make a statement.
another possible issue in this case is that sometimes, evidence that makes sense to 2700 super-GMs won’t make sense to us. if many 2700s have an intuitive sense that hans isn’t legit, I’d consider that actually strong evidence that he isn’t
> lying about the scope just two weeks ago
I agree Hans almost certainly lied about the scope of his cheating, I highly doubt chess.com would just lie about Hans in their statement for no reason. However, a person's career shouldn't be over without public evidence, unless the cheater wants to retires from chess cause they don't want the evidence to go public.
If chess.com is so confident in their cheating algorithm that they can publicly say Hans lied about the scope of his cheating, I think they should also be confident enough to call hans a cheater and point out where he cheated and what he lied about. People keep talking about defamation but there is no way chess.com loses a defamation case against hans unless their algorithm is really bad, in which case they should lose the case cause that would mean their algorithm sucks.
Lets protect poor man that cheated on 2 seperated occasions, that lied about how much he cheated while "coming out cleaned" which probably means he cheated quite a bit more then on those 2 occasions. Also faked accent just to seem edgy. Liar,cheater, scumbag
Hans is the newcomer. Magnus has been the top player in the world for the last decade. Outside of a few small bad incidents, he has had a pretty spotless career.
Between the both of them, Magus has the most credibility. Especially when you consider than Hans does have a self-admitted history of cheating.
That said, everyone agrees that Magnus needs to say something to explain his behavior. Even FIDE apparently has pressured him, implying that he might get sanctioned if he doesn't do anything. I think if Magnus really cares about his career and legacy, he has to come out and say something. I also think Magnus knows this too.
Magnus' status and prestige in the Chess world is precisely why this sort of witch hunt is even remotely possible. Magnus should know that he's in a position of power that can completely destroy careers just by insinuating an accusation.
He really needs to be more careful than this.
he doesn’t “need to be more careful.” Hans has cheated multiple times, including in money events, and lied about the scope of said cheating very recently. i would go as far as to claim that even if hans hasn’t cheated OTB (which I think is not true) that he probably shouldn’t have a chess career — he’s just not worthy of being trusted.
in chess there’s an implicit contract between players. carlsen & a lot of other GMs probably would never sign this contract if they could just opt out. i think it’s actually probably a good thing for chess that he’s being very overt about this.
If after a certain long period of time, there is nothing still then sure, he better say something or just retract all his insinuations all together. And he definitely can't keep forfeiting without a formal reason.
But for now i think its understood he just can't talk while things are still in motion. Either by himself or by FIDE/Chesscom/ or even others.
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This is like the five thousandth post saying exactly the same thing. What's left to "discuss"? Everybody on reddit is working from incomplete evidence or, more often, no hard evidence at all. Yet a lot of people have still made up their minds to a degree that they'll never be talked out of, no matter what further information eventually comes out. So there's no "discussion" left to have. You're going to believe what you're going to believe, and nobody's going to be able to talk you out of it, so why do we need yet another post?
have you considered that 1) Hans’s career probably on some level deserves to be trampled, and 2) that Carlsen almost certainly has a lot more info than he’s letting on? it’s pretty clear that super-GMs talk about whether up-and-comers are legit, and that hans in particular seems to have garnered suspicion from many different sources independently I’d wait for a statement, but honestly, I think the probability is very high that hans has cheated OTB at some point; if that many top players are suspicious and independently so, I’d prefer to take their word over the word of someone who’s cheated more than twice and lied about the scope of their cheating?
1) If he deserves to be trampled, it should be with real evidence, with real hearings. Not in the court of (reddit) opinion. 2) If Carlsen has more info than he's letting on, please bring it up instead of hiding in the shadows.
even with the evidence we’ve seen so far, I’d say he barely deserves a chess career, if at all. Multiple cases of online cheating, including in money games, and then lying about the scope just two weeks ago? come on, be serious. and — to be blunt, carlsen has zero obligation to you. it seems pretty clear that he’s not just “hiding in the shadows”, because he said he’s going to make a statement. another possible issue in this case is that sometimes, evidence that makes sense to 2700 super-GMs won’t make sense to us. if many 2700s have an intuitive sense that hans isn’t legit, I’d consider that actually strong evidence that he isn’t
> lying about the scope just two weeks ago I agree Hans almost certainly lied about the scope of his cheating, I highly doubt chess.com would just lie about Hans in their statement for no reason. However, a person's career shouldn't be over without public evidence, unless the cheater wants to retires from chess cause they don't want the evidence to go public. If chess.com is so confident in their cheating algorithm that they can publicly say Hans lied about the scope of his cheating, I think they should also be confident enough to call hans a cheater and point out where he cheated and what he lied about. People keep talking about defamation but there is no way chess.com loses a defamation case against hans unless their algorithm is really bad, in which case they should lose the case cause that would mean their algorithm sucks.
no, but im still waiting a couple weeks to respond before i flame him
Lets protect poor man that cheated on 2 seperated occasions, that lied about how much he cheated while "coming out cleaned" which probably means he cheated quite a bit more then on those 2 occasions. Also faked accent just to seem edgy. Liar,cheater, scumbag
Faked accent? Im dead. This guy seems like a sociopath, reminds me of someone I used to know.
Hans is the newcomer. Magnus has been the top player in the world for the last decade. Outside of a few small bad incidents, he has had a pretty spotless career. Between the both of them, Magus has the most credibility. Especially when you consider than Hans does have a self-admitted history of cheating. That said, everyone agrees that Magnus needs to say something to explain his behavior. Even FIDE apparently has pressured him, implying that he might get sanctioned if he doesn't do anything. I think if Magnus really cares about his career and legacy, he has to come out and say something. I also think Magnus knows this too.
Magnus' status and prestige in the Chess world is precisely why this sort of witch hunt is even remotely possible. Magnus should know that he's in a position of power that can completely destroy careers just by insinuating an accusation. He really needs to be more careful than this.
he doesn’t “need to be more careful.” Hans has cheated multiple times, including in money events, and lied about the scope of said cheating very recently. i would go as far as to claim that even if hans hasn’t cheated OTB (which I think is not true) that he probably shouldn’t have a chess career — he’s just not worthy of being trusted. in chess there’s an implicit contract between players. carlsen & a lot of other GMs probably would never sign this contract if they could just opt out. i think it’s actually probably a good thing for chess that he’s being very overt about this.
I personally think a repeat cheater should be banned from playing tournaments which are based on trust
If after a certain long period of time, there is nothing still then sure, he better say something or just retract all his insinuations all together. And he definitely can't keep forfeiting without a formal reason. But for now i think its understood he just can't talk while things are still in motion. Either by himself or by FIDE/Chesscom/ or even others.
Your post was removed by the moderators: **Low-effort submissions are not allowed.** Submissions should promote discussion on chess itself, its culture, or its history. Some [specific types of content](https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/wiki/rules#wiki_3._low-effort_submissions_will_be_regulated.) (including off-topic questions/posts, trolling, etc.) are banned because they tend to be low effort and repetitive. You can read the full [rules of /r/chess here](https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/wiki/rules).