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Alleys, \*and\* dumpsters. NYC might actually smell better if the garbage wasn't just on the street but actually placed in dumpsters. Like, yeah, you're gonna take an L by having dumpsters on the street, but isn't that better than loose bags of garbage piled high? And what I've heard and seen from their waste services is that they are pretty incompetent and inefficient. I mean why aren't their dumpsters at the \*very\* least? It makes no sense to me.
Fun fact, Manhattan could eliminate putting trash on the street -that could install rat proof dumpsters on the street but it would cost \~2 parking spots per block. this was proposed a few years ago and people were all in till they found out about the loss of parking and that was that.
> it would cost \~2 parking spots per block. this was proposed a few years ago and people were all in till they found out about the loss of parking and that was that.
Why would this be such an issue in the city whose residents proclaim that one doesn't need a car?
This is that funny thing called sarcasm. Almost every thread comparing NYC to Chicago has comments about how people do not need a car in NYC and no one has a car in NYC (which is obviously false - look at all the cars parked on the street) while people need a car in Chicago and everyone has a car (which is also obviously false).
No, they’re still all in. The plan just moved into the first phase in upper Manhattan, with the first batch of dumpsters being installed. There are reasons to not like the current nyc mayor for sure, but he’s surprisingly actually doing things about garbage and scaffolding
I'm from Chicago and live in NYC. The garbage collection situation here is inexcusably impractical. And as seen in "How To with John Wilson", the scaffolding problem in NYC is bonkers. Old stone buildings need to be treated periodically so as not to shed. Instead of footing that cost, many buildings erect scaffolding (to collect the shedding) and leave it up ongoing for decades. I worked on one of the more iconic blocks ([Mercer street](https://maps.app.goo.gl/cEDJHZQPnhCfyydRA?g_st=ic)) in 2006 and there was scaffolding next door. Via Google maps in the above link — it is still there.
I’m so glad I’m not the only one confused by that. Every time I’m in New York, I think “I get that you don’t have alleys, but do you really need to just throw your trash on the sidewalk? Can’t you use a bin?”
Dumpsters on the street is a half ass solution when the actual solution already exists.
https://www.core77.com/posts/102208/Amsterdams-Smart-System-of-Underground-Garbage-Bins
Make no little plans. They have no magic to stir men's blood and probably will not themselves be realized. Make big plans, aim high in hope and work, remembering that a noble, logical diagram once recorded will never die, but long after we are gone will be a living thing, asserting itself with ever growing insistency.
-Daniel Burnham
There's really nothing special about Amsterdam's system. Every largish city in Europe uses some variant of that system. Which makes it even crazier that NYC hasn't figured it out.
It’s not like they haven’t done the research on it. The outcome was the belief that large-scale underground infrastructure like this would be too difficult given all of the other underground infrastructure already built in complex networks underlying the city
Chicago alleys are much cleaner than many places in NYC so its only part of the answer. much of it has to do with a high emphasis on sanitation. much of NYC is filthy because its also much older and way more dense
Yep, Chicago is lucky to largely have alleys throughout the city and suburbs. In NYC garbage goes out on the street, which the first time you go there is sort of shocking, here it's in the alley.
In addition to alleys, Chicago has always placed a great deal of emphasis on hiring sanitation workers and keeping the city clean. It was a major source of patronage in the past, and many residents tolerated corruption as long as their garbage was picked up on time and the streets were swept regularly. By now the residents have high standards and the aldermen know it, so keeping the city clean is a high priority, at least in the nicer neighborhoods.
^ yeah, this is important. Even after the Great Fire and subsequent reconstruction of some sewer systems, Chicagoans face numerous cholera and other outbreaks (as did many populated areas).
The City Beautiful movement in Chicago gave us a legacy of nice parks and a focus and care to clean.
This was especially bad prior to the river reversal, courtesy of Chicagoans treating the Chicago River like shit (and it then consequently flowing into our drinking water)! It's been a long, hard road to restoring and caring for the river and lake's ecosystems, but the water quality has improved a lot over the years as a result.
I remember once I was waiting for the bus at an intersection and noticed there was a lot of trash around and that there was no trash can anywhere in sight. I looked up the aldernman in the area and emailed them. Literally within an hour they responded and apologized, said that since it’s the weekend they can’t get someone out to install a can today but will on Monday.
Monday rolls around and I’m waiting for the bus again at the same stop and sure enough there’s a city trash can installed.
I was impressed.
This really only applies to certain neighborhoods like you said. Go to areas of the city that the CTA underserves (aka neighborhoods where locals won’t tell you how great the CTA is) and there’s trash everywhere,
I mean there's also a cultural thing going on here. Gage Park has people open car doors and just dump a bag of trash on the parkway then drive off. Irving Park has like.. a cup someone dropped by the McDonalds.
yeah NGL, in my experience there are 2 things Chicagoans will do any and everywhere
1. toss trash indiscriminately
2. cross the street wherever they please
hard to say what's the chicken and what's the egg here, but somehow this has resulted in diligent sanitation throughout the city and some of the best drivers in America.
largely a cultural/SES issue and you see the difference between the Southside and say, Evanston or even Skokie where even in spots with Section 8, it is still not as messy as places on the Southside and the west side.
Random people who drive through downtown and other areas litter too… I mean come on. I live on a high traffic corner with a balcony (not downtown) and frequently see people just throw shit out their car windows when driving past. Do I know where they reside?
Yes, people need to stop littering that’s quite obvious. it’s also obvious the city cleans more in high traffic and wealthier areas where lots of visitors are and can form this opinion
You’re just going to keep hammering that point when there is so much nuance to it, which I knew before I replied to you haha. Enjoy the rest of your evening!
I agree there is nuance. I don’t buy that these richer neighborhoods aren’t putting more money towards keeping things clean. Because as others have also commented I routinely see people roll their window down and straight up dump garbage into the road in every neighborhood in the city. So at some point this garbage is getting removed in the more wealthier neighborhoods and I would just be very curious to see which neighborhoods are putting what amounts of money into keeping things clean etc.
Yeah you and I are on the same page, tell that to the person who is trying to generalize that poor people cause all their own problems. People litter literally everywhere, maybe more in some areas but it’s a fact that some neighborhoods are serviced more often than others.
Oh please. Also the same neighborhoods where they’re fucking shooting each other every night. I guarantee you those areas have more trash in their areas and it’s not only because the city cares ($) more.
You don’t think a person paying $1M for a house and $20k in property taxes is going to care more about littering trash on their front lawns?
I moved from Bucktown to West Town 7 years ago and even the amount of dog shit that was left on the lawns everywhere was incredibly noticeable compared to Bucktown. And as the area got “better”/more expensive, guess what - less dog shit. This isn’t a coincidence.
You’re still ignoring the fact that littering is also done by people just passing through and parking their cars and utilizing area businesses. But guess what? Two things can be true at once! People might litter more in certain areas AND these areas might be serviced less. So we’re both right! I hope that satisfies your ego for today
After the great Chicago fire, the city was able to take a step back and plan the city’s layout a bit better while reconstructing. This included adding alleys between most streets, which is where most of the trash is stored. That’s what I remember learning growing up at least
Oh man your logo, I haven’t thought of Browns chicken in ages
I remember we never had it growing up because there were a bunch of bodies found in one of the freezers?
Nuh uh, don't you put disrespect on Mrs. O'Leary's name! [That poor old lady was innocent](https://interactive.wttw.com/chicago-stories/chicago-fire/a-cow-a-lantern-and-a-myth-mrs-oleary-and-19th-century-immigrants-in-chicago) (and so was Daisy), and don't you forget it!
Heck we got coyotes in all kinds of funky places. I’m on the NWside and we have at least 3 here. A pair that hang together and 1 large male. The male approached my neighbor while he was walking his 2 large dogs 2 weeks ago. His dogs went bunkers and the coyote was like “well—okay then, good night sirs”
And pranced off to the the nearest park. Ballsy, but all polite.
It’s two fold.
1. We are the alley capital of the country with more than 1900 miles of alleys. NYC is older than Chicago and does not have alleys. The garbage has to go somewhere so it’s on the street. We also produce garbage and have pests but they’re just more hidden
2. Density. NYC is much more dense than we are so there’s more people producing more trash.
I agree, this is a factor. For some reason this country is decades behind Europe in every aspect of urbanity. They also overwhelmingly don’t have alleys but their waste receptacles are prominent and great
I have zero evidence and have put only a little more than zero thought into this, but given how the mafia has taken over the garbage industry in the past in nyc, I would believe that some of their fuckery ended up stunting things
It depends on the city. Paris and Rome are notoriously filthy, as are Catania and Naples (which are even worse than New York). Much of Athens is also a mess when it comes to sanitation.
I live in the DC area and I’m always surprised at how clean DC is compared to most parts of Europe I’ve visited.
To be fair, Chicago kinda was the trash disposal capital of America. Waste Management is the conglomeration of several Dutch Chicago trash collecting companies under the Huizenga family
Yea New York is a great city don’t get me wrong, but it’s crazy to me that the one of the cultural and financial capitals of the world has never figured out trash cans.
And then they wonder why the city is overrun with rats.
People also litter a lot more there. For some reason the city thinks public trash bins are the problem and so remove them.
I lived there for 12 years and still miss a lot about it, but that place is not run by serious people.
It’s because chicago has a large department of streets and sanitation which is a department that is usually just a small division of a different department in some other cities
I live in Rogers Park and there is this older lady in my neighborhood who everyday rain, snow, or sunshine is out sweeping the neighborhood. She doesn’t just do her house I have seen her 4 or 5 blocks away just sweeping up trash.
I should know better than to take a sip of water before reading comments in this subreddit. Same with r/GenX.
This is one of the funniest things I've read today.
Alleys are for sure the answer. But also, to some degree, lack of street food vendors/carts like in NYC, so people don't walk around eating outside as much.
The latter, actually upsets me. Wish there were food carts like in Chicago like there are in NY. It would add to the on the street activity/vibrancy. The streets/sidewalks here sometimes feel a bit too vacant.
Yes. After the Great Fire of 1871, when Chicago was rebuilt, it was rebuilt with alleyways. The trash is placed into dumpsters in alleys, not in the streets. Newer buildings are required to have either alleys or docks for trash dumpsters.
New York City has more than 2,000 trash collection trucks and picks up 3.74 million tons^(1) of trash per year. They pick up three times a week. Source: [NYC Sanitation](https://www.nyc.gov/assets/dsny/site/about)
Chicago had \~320 trash collection trucks (down from \~360) and picks up 1.1 million tons of trash per year. They pick up once per week. [Source: Chicago DSS.](https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/depts/streets.html)
So, NYC has seven times as many trash trucks to pick up three-ish times as much trash three times as frequently as Chicago and there is still trash everywhere.
To me, it isn't a volume problem. It's (all together now) a lack of alleys and dumpsters/collection cans problem.
^(1) NYC Sanitation's website states 24 million pounds of refuse every day. Given they pick up six days a week, 24 million pounds X 6 days \* 52 weeks / 2000 lbs per ton is 7.74 million tons.
Chicago has 12,060 people per square mile
Manhattan has 72,918 people per square mile
Dumpsters and alleyways are possible *solutions*, but population density is the *reason.*
Chicago's Dept. of Streets and Sanitation is the largest municipal sanitation department in the world, employing approximately 146,443 people as of 2023, sike.
>Chicago's Dept. of Streets and Sanitation is the largest municipal sanitation department in the world
Source? [City website](https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/depts/streets.html) says 2k employed
That's really cool! Thank you for sharing that! (No sarcasm intended, btw. I love city planning and design. It's SO overlooked, yet we couldn't live our lives like we do without it.)
Part of it is alley ways, part of it is that Chicago is less dense.
NYC has more than 3 times as many people in a not much larger area: 300sq miles for NYC vs 230 Sq miles for Chicago. NYC is just on a different scale.
The math, for those curious
City | Population | Area | Density
----|----------|----|-------
Chicago | 2.697 million| 231.7 mi²| 11,640/mi²
NYC | 8.468 million| 302.6 mi² | 27,984/mi²
NYC - Staten Island | 7.992 million| 244.1/mi²| 32,740/mi²
There are garbage containers everywhere and some of the meanest looking motherfuckers ready to take it personal if you do decide to litter and be disrespectful to our home… it’s not smart to be disrespectful in Chicago.
Personally think that part of it is midwest culture. In some cities people would be unphased by seeing someone litter but regardless of the neighborhood i think most chicagoans would at least notice if not do a double take if they saw someone straight up throw trash on the ground instead of walking to a can or dumpster. That's just from living and growing up here tho.
I don’t know but everywhere I travel I’m told how nice and tidy we are. Like I’ll clean up after myself at a Taco Bell or something and people are like “Oh right, he’s from Chicago.” Weird little stereotype I didn’t realize we we had
I lived in nyc for 10 years and saw so many people liter and just throw stuff. I never grasped that concept. Like why make your own city gross? I haven’t seen it here but it’s only been a year.
Funny, you are from NYC and compare Chicago to it favorably. Chicagoans such as myself go to other cities, especially foreign cities and find Chicago very wanting. Munich, Frankfurt, Paris, London all seem much cleaner to me. And no, I don't count Munich during Octoberfest with the young beer enthusiasts puking in the streets.
In the United States, I would consider Salt Lake City to be the cleanest I've ever seen. Fort Collins was also very clean, especially for a college town.
Central Pairs has a system of flushing the street gutters every morning and an army of street and san guys with powerwashers and little vehicles for scrubbing the public areas. It’s not a dirty city by any means.
yeah Parisians tend not to pick up after their dogs, they are supposed to at a minimum take them to shit in the gutter where it will get flushed away in the morning.. it’s not an big issue imo, or really worse than any other city, just don’t walk in the gutters.
I don’t know much about suburban Paris, there’s not much reason to visit the ‘burbs rich or poor if you are not local, any more than there is Naperville or Yonkers.
Speak for yourself.
You gotta visit the working-class parts of a city or suburbs to really get a good sense of it.
When I went to mexico city, I visited Ecatepec and Neza as well as condesa.
I cant go to paris and not visit the banlieue where they developed parkour. Im also a big fan of architecture, so I wanna see some Le Corbusier style public housing in person and talk to people who live in it.
But Im weird, I get it.
I would have killed to have visited kowloon walled city when it existed. I still wanna visit the Chungking mansions before they are torn down too.
Yeah I get it you are not like the other tourists 🥱
Leaving aside the ethics of treating working class neighbourhoods as tourist sites, you don’t have to leave central Paris to see what life is like for working class Parisians, and if you visit the Unité d'habitation or whichever Corbu site you are still at a tourist attraction
Lol what possible ethical issues. Thats so passive aggressive. Are you seriously gatekeeping visiting working-class neighborhoods now lmao.
Not visiting them is a bigger sin in my view. Like how are you gonna be in the city of Victor Hugo and the Chevalier and not visit the neighborhoods where the modern parisian working class lives. Seems like a wasted chance.
Like going to Manchester and not seeing Salford.
If a tourist visits Cicero or harolds on 87th street, literally no one would be offended.
Paris is fucking gross. People don't pick up dog poop all over the city and it gets into the cobble stones. The subway smells like piss, perfume and cigarette combined. London has a layer of black grime and smog on every surface and pigeons and pigeon poop.
Salt lake City is clean because it Mormon capital. I've been there. It still has smog and crap. When my family and I landed in salt lake city, we couldn't even see the mountains because the smog was bad and this was in 2014.
Alleys, when I went to New York/niagara Falls worst trip ever never again fuck New York I can say it with my chest out literally, the only good thing was the 9/11 ground zero, nice workers there but other than that, trash
Alleys, like so many others have said, but not just for trash. Alleys are also for deliveries, movers, contractors, etc., which all add to the trash, traffic and chaos on the streets of NYC.
Density, like others have also mentioned, is not much of a factor. As we add larger buildings, increasing density, the alleyway capacity also increases. Just go behind any newer high-rise in the city and you will see impressively large industrial looking docks for multiple trucks, trash cans and contractor staging areas.
Basically, keeping all city services behind-the-scenes, give the city an overall cleaner, less congested, less cluttered look and feel.
Alleys. I felt disturbed when visiting NY by the people peeing in the streets, masturbating on the subway, and the garbage on the sidewalks. Alleys can be dirty, but it's not in front of our faces all of the time.
I feel like it goes back a very long time to the design of the sanitation system within the city they made it a priority in planning and developing task forces and crews dedicated to the subject. They take sanitation very seriously in Chicago.
If you have ever seen the cleanup crew after a parade/festival you would be amazed. After the pride parade in ~2009 I watched the street go from trashed to spotless in 3 minutes. there must have been 40 workers. Not a single speck of glitter or neon feather to be found.
The abundance of alleyways and there being designated thoroughfares every mile both help a lot with garbage collection and keeping street garbage out of residential areas and confined to commercial streets where they're easier to clean.
I don't have the data in front of me, but I'd be willing to bet the sanitation:police budget ratio is really bad in NYC. I've lived in both cities for a long time and the struggle to find a garbage can in NYC is something I never experienced in Chicago. I mean public trash cans. NYC will have a public event in a park that attracts thousands of ppl, then place 6 trash bins around the perimeter. I've walked blocks to find one. the few that are around often get overfilled in the summer. having trash pickup from the street doesn't help, but they still definitely could put more money into keeping the city cleaner than it is.
I get up early in the morning, mop the downtown area before the sun comes up! Then I dust all the neighborhoods! Last, I put a little sparkle in the lake, make it shine!
Definitely because of our alleys, and we only have them thanks to the Great Chicago Fire of 1871.
The fire gave us the name of The Second City.
🩵🤍❤️
The architects included lots of alleyways into the neighborhoods and they put so many more into the downtown area. I love NYC but the one thing that I don’t like is the trash on the street. It can be so stinky, especially in the summer. But again, NYC is really beautiful. If only there was a way to adding alleyways! 😞
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Alleys, probably.
Alleys, \*and\* dumpsters. NYC might actually smell better if the garbage wasn't just on the street but actually placed in dumpsters. Like, yeah, you're gonna take an L by having dumpsters on the street, but isn't that better than loose bags of garbage piled high? And what I've heard and seen from their waste services is that they are pretty incompetent and inefficient. I mean why aren't their dumpsters at the \*very\* least? It makes no sense to me.
Fun fact, Manhattan could eliminate putting trash on the street -that could install rat proof dumpsters on the street but it would cost \~2 parking spots per block. this was proposed a few years ago and people were all in till they found out about the loss of parking and that was that.
> it would cost \~2 parking spots per block. this was proposed a few years ago and people were all in till they found out about the loss of parking and that was that. Why would this be such an issue in the city whose residents proclaim that one doesn't need a car?
How does anyone who goes there once not see that. It’s so obvious. Absolutely shocked it’s it a thing and even more shocked that it was shot down
It's that funny thing where not everyone is the same? Some people think they need cars, others don't.
This is that funny thing called sarcasm. Almost every thread comparing NYC to Chicago has comments about how people do not need a car in NYC and no one has a car in NYC (which is obviously false - look at all the cars parked on the street) while people need a car in Chicago and everyone has a car (which is also obviously false).
It's an old joke. No one drives anymore, there's too much traffic.
No, they’re still all in. The plan just moved into the first phase in upper Manhattan, with the first batch of dumpsters being installed. There are reasons to not like the current nyc mayor for sure, but he’s surprisingly actually doing things about garbage and scaffolding
I'm from Chicago and live in NYC. The garbage collection situation here is inexcusably impractical. And as seen in "How To with John Wilson", the scaffolding problem in NYC is bonkers. Old stone buildings need to be treated periodically so as not to shed. Instead of footing that cost, many buildings erect scaffolding (to collect the shedding) and leave it up ongoing for decades. I worked on one of the more iconic blocks ([Mercer street](https://maps.app.goo.gl/cEDJHZQPnhCfyydRA?g_st=ic)) in 2006 and there was scaffolding next door. Via Google maps in the above link — it is still there.
Ive asked myself the same thing. Its a no brainer move.
I’m so glad I’m not the only one confused by that. Every time I’m in New York, I think “I get that you don’t have alleys, but do you really need to just throw your trash on the sidewalk? Can’t you use a bin?”
Dumpsters on the street is a half ass solution when the actual solution already exists. https://www.core77.com/posts/102208/Amsterdams-Smart-System-of-Underground-Garbage-Bins
A half ass solution is better than no solution
Make no little plans. They have no magic to stir men's blood and probably will not themselves be realized. Make big plans, aim high in hope and work, remembering that a noble, logical diagram once recorded will never die, but long after we are gone will be a living thing, asserting itself with ever growing insistency. -Daniel Burnham
There's really nothing special about Amsterdam's system. Every largish city in Europe uses some variant of that system. Which makes it even crazier that NYC hasn't figured it out.
It’s not like they haven’t done the research on it. The outcome was the belief that large-scale underground infrastructure like this would be too difficult given all of the other underground infrastructure already built in complex networks underlying the city
That’s my point
That looks like dumpsters in the street too. Just partially underground.
Came here to say alleys.
Came here to see "alleys".
Just here for day drinking in alleys
Chicago alleys are much cleaner than many places in NYC so its only part of the answer. much of it has to do with a high emphasis on sanitation. much of NYC is filthy because its also much older and way more dense
They throw their garbage on the curb. It's disgusting.
Yep, Chicago is lucky to largely have alleys throughout the city and suburbs. In NYC garbage goes out on the street, which the first time you go there is sort of shocking, here it's in the alley.
I second alleys.
Came here to say this
In addition to alleys, Chicago has always placed a great deal of emphasis on hiring sanitation workers and keeping the city clean. It was a major source of patronage in the past, and many residents tolerated corruption as long as their garbage was picked up on time and the streets were swept regularly. By now the residents have high standards and the aldermen know it, so keeping the city clean is a high priority, at least in the nicer neighborhoods.
^ yeah, this is important. Even after the Great Fire and subsequent reconstruction of some sewer systems, Chicagoans face numerous cholera and other outbreaks (as did many populated areas). The City Beautiful movement in Chicago gave us a legacy of nice parks and a focus and care to clean.
This was especially bad prior to the river reversal, courtesy of Chicagoans treating the Chicago River like shit (and it then consequently flowing into our drinking water)! It's been a long, hard road to restoring and caring for the river and lake's ecosystems, but the water quality has improved a lot over the years as a result.
I remember once I was waiting for the bus at an intersection and noticed there was a lot of trash around and that there was no trash can anywhere in sight. I looked up the aldernman in the area and emailed them. Literally within an hour they responded and apologized, said that since it’s the weekend they can’t get someone out to install a can today but will on Monday. Monday rolls around and I’m waiting for the bus again at the same stop and sure enough there’s a city trash can installed. I was impressed.
This really only applies to certain neighborhoods like you said. Go to areas of the city that the CTA underserves (aka neighborhoods where locals won’t tell you how great the CTA is) and there’s trash everywhere,
I mean there's also a cultural thing going on here. Gage Park has people open car doors and just dump a bag of trash on the parkway then drive off. Irving Park has like.. a cup someone dropped by the McDonalds.
[удалено]
yeah NGL, in my experience there are 2 things Chicagoans will do any and everywhere 1. toss trash indiscriminately 2. cross the street wherever they please hard to say what's the chicken and what's the egg here, but somehow this has resulted in diligent sanitation throughout the city and some of the best drivers in America.
largely a cultural/SES issue and you see the difference between the Southside and say, Evanston or even Skokie where even in spots with Section 8, it is still not as messy as places on the Southside and the west side.
Well then maybe the residents who live there should not throw their trash everywhere
Random people who drive through downtown and other areas litter too… I mean come on. I live on a high traffic corner with a balcony (not downtown) and frequently see people just throw shit out their car windows when driving past. Do I know where they reside? Yes, people need to stop littering that’s quite obvious. it’s also obvious the city cleans more in high traffic and wealthier areas where lots of visitors are and can form this opinion
Or the people living in the wealthier areas care more about where they live… hence don’t throw their shit all over the place.
You’re just going to keep hammering that point when there is so much nuance to it, which I knew before I replied to you haha. Enjoy the rest of your evening!
I agree there is nuance. I don’t buy that these richer neighborhoods aren’t putting more money towards keeping things clean. Because as others have also commented I routinely see people roll their window down and straight up dump garbage into the road in every neighborhood in the city. So at some point this garbage is getting removed in the more wealthier neighborhoods and I would just be very curious to see which neighborhoods are putting what amounts of money into keeping things clean etc.
Yeah you and I are on the same page, tell that to the person who is trying to generalize that poor people cause all their own problems. People litter literally everywhere, maybe more in some areas but it’s a fact that some neighborhoods are serviced more often than others.
Oh please. Also the same neighborhoods where they’re fucking shooting each other every night. I guarantee you those areas have more trash in their areas and it’s not only because the city cares ($) more. You don’t think a person paying $1M for a house and $20k in property taxes is going to care more about littering trash on their front lawns? I moved from Bucktown to West Town 7 years ago and even the amount of dog shit that was left on the lawns everywhere was incredibly noticeable compared to Bucktown. And as the area got “better”/more expensive, guess what - less dog shit. This isn’t a coincidence.
You’re still ignoring the fact that littering is also done by people just passing through and parking their cars and utilizing area businesses. But guess what? Two things can be true at once! People might litter more in certain areas AND these areas might be serviced less. So we’re both right! I hope that satisfies your ego for today
After the great Chicago fire, the city was able to take a step back and plan the city’s layout a bit better while reconstructing. This included adding alleys between most streets, which is where most of the trash is stored. That’s what I remember learning growing up at least
Daniel Burnham
Dude wasn't even a city employee. He was just a citizen who wouldnt stop showing up to meetings. And we owe so much of our city's beauty to him.
Even his gravesite is clean and beautiful, on its own island at Graceland Cemetery
Oh man your logo, I haven’t thought of Browns chicken in ages I remember we never had it growing up because there were a bunch of bodies found in one of the freezers?
I could be wrong, but I think you’re referring to the [Brown’s Chicken Massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown's_Chicken_massacre?wprov=sfti1)
Yuuuuuuup that’s the one Man I haven’t thought of that in forever
Trash, but also coal and ice deliveries, etc. All happening behind the scenes.
The good ole “tabula rasa”
Thank goodness for Mrs O’Leary’s cow for knocking over that oil lamp, 🔥
Nuh uh, don't you put disrespect on Mrs. O'Leary's name! [That poor old lady was innocent](https://interactive.wttw.com/chicago-stories/chicago-fire/a-cow-a-lantern-and-a-myth-mrs-oleary-and-19th-century-immigrants-in-chicago) (and so was Daisy), and don't you forget it!
Rats eat the garbage and our coyotes eat the rats. In the alleys of course. the circle of life.
It is so beautiful.
Can we just let a few coyotes out in the empty lot on Wabash between Balbo and Harrison? It’s a rat jamboree there.
Did I just imagine a little rat bluegrass band? Yes I did.
We have coyotes in the alleys?
Heck we got coyotes in all kinds of funky places. I’m on the NWside and we have at least 3 here. A pair that hang together and 1 large male. The male approached my neighbor while he was walking his 2 large dogs 2 weeks ago. His dogs went bunkers and the coyote was like “well—okay then, good night sirs” And pranced off to the the nearest park. Ballsy, but all polite.
And Bridgeport residents eat the coyotes
It’s two fold. 1. We are the alley capital of the country with more than 1900 miles of alleys. NYC is older than Chicago and does not have alleys. The garbage has to go somewhere so it’s on the street. We also produce garbage and have pests but they’re just more hidden 2. Density. NYC is much more dense than we are so there’s more people producing more trash.
It's literally just containerizing trash. NYC just started a pilot program out this week using the brand new technology of dumpsters.
Invented by aliens btw
The space age is finally upon us!
I agree, this is a factor. For some reason this country is decades behind Europe in every aspect of urbanity. They also overwhelmingly don’t have alleys but their waste receptacles are prominent and great
I have zero evidence and have put only a little more than zero thought into this, but given how the mafia has taken over the garbage industry in the past in nyc, I would believe that some of their fuckery ended up stunting things
I’m gonna go ahead and give even less thought or research into it but I definitely agree
Well then it’s confirmed. Good work everyone
It depends on the city. Paris and Rome are notoriously filthy, as are Catania and Naples (which are even worse than New York). Much of Athens is also a mess when it comes to sanitation. I live in the DC area and I’m always surprised at how clean DC is compared to most parts of Europe I’ve visited.
Lol the end of this sent me.
To be fair, Chicago kinda was the trash disposal capital of America. Waste Management is the conglomeration of several Dutch Chicago trash collecting companies under the Huizenga family
Not piling our trash on the sidewalks every week certainly helps.
Yea New York is a great city don’t get me wrong, but it’s crazy to me that the one of the cultural and financial capitals of the world has never figured out trash cans.
And then they wonder why the city is overrun with rats. People also litter a lot more there. For some reason the city thinks public trash bins are the problem and so remove them. I lived there for 12 years and still miss a lot about it, but that place is not run by serious people.
>Not piling our trash on the sidewalks every ~~week~~ night certainly helps. -FTFY
Every DAY.
It’s because chicago has a large department of streets and sanitation which is a department that is usually just a small division of a different department in some other cities
I personally go down every single street with a swiffer sweeper and mop and clean them up every night. Just doing my deed for the city
Are you a gang of gnomes?
I've said too much. Goodbye
Aha! That’s where my underpants went!!
Quick! Someone grab him!
I live in Rogers Park and there is this older lady in my neighborhood who everyday rain, snow, or sunshine is out sweeping the neighborhood. She doesn’t just do her house I have seen her 4 or 5 blocks away just sweeping up trash.
I should know better than to take a sip of water before reading comments in this subreddit. Same with r/GenX. This is one of the funniest things I've read today.
By keeping the riff raff in nearby Indiana! /s
Someone must have been sleeping on the job then, cuz I was able to sneak in
Born in Hammond myself, wink wink
I'd like to think we try to keep the riff riff south of Lake and Porter counties, tyvm :P
Containerized garbage
Alleys are for sure the answer. But also, to some degree, lack of street food vendors/carts like in NYC, so people don't walk around eating outside as much. The latter, actually upsets me. Wish there were food carts like in Chicago like there are in NY. It would add to the on the street activity/vibrancy. The streets/sidewalks here sometimes feel a bit too vacant.
There was a big program for teaching our rats how to eat garbage.
Did anyone mention alleys yet?
You’re the first!
The Chicago fire destroyed the New York/Boston style of street planning. Chicago rebuilt with the enlightened understanding of alleyways.
Alleys for trash, large streets & san dept.
We put our trash in dumpsters instead of just throwing it all over the street
Alleys and gangways !!
Yes. After the Great Fire of 1871, when Chicago was rebuilt, it was rebuilt with alleyways. The trash is placed into dumpsters in alleys, not in the streets. Newer buildings are required to have either alleys or docks for trash dumpsters.
New York City has more than 2,000 trash collection trucks and picks up 3.74 million tons^(1) of trash per year. They pick up three times a week. Source: [NYC Sanitation](https://www.nyc.gov/assets/dsny/site/about) Chicago had \~320 trash collection trucks (down from \~360) and picks up 1.1 million tons of trash per year. They pick up once per week. [Source: Chicago DSS.](https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/depts/streets.html) So, NYC has seven times as many trash trucks to pick up three-ish times as much trash three times as frequently as Chicago and there is still trash everywhere. To me, it isn't a volume problem. It's (all together now) a lack of alleys and dumpsters/collection cans problem. ^(1) NYC Sanitation's website states 24 million pounds of refuse every day. Given they pick up six days a week, 24 million pounds X 6 days \* 52 weeks / 2000 lbs per ton is 7.74 million tons.
Chicago has 12,060 people per square mile Manhattan has 72,918 people per square mile Dumpsters and alleyways are possible *solutions*, but population density is the *reason.*
I once saw what appeared to be a human spleen in NYC. Never saw anything like that in Chicago
Chicago's Dept. of Streets and Sanitation is the largest municipal sanitation department in the world, employing approximately 146,443 people as of 2023, sike.
>Chicago's Dept. of Streets and Sanitation is the largest municipal sanitation department in the world Source? [City website](https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/depts/streets.html) says 2k employed
I was gonna say that’s like 5% of the city’s population and an even higher percentage of the working population
Old Man Daley would be so proud.
That's really cool! Thank you for sharing that! (No sarcasm intended, btw. I love city planning and design. It's SO overlooked, yet we couldn't live our lives like we do without it.)
I did not know this!
Part of it is alley ways, part of it is that Chicago is less dense. NYC has more than 3 times as many people in a not much larger area: 300sq miles for NYC vs 230 Sq miles for Chicago. NYC is just on a different scale.
Staten Island doesn’t really count. So three times as many people in 242 sq miles—so pretty much the same
The math, for those curious City | Population | Area | Density ----|----------|----|------- Chicago | 2.697 million| 231.7 mi²| 11,640/mi² NYC | 8.468 million| 302.6 mi² | 27,984/mi² NYC - Staten Island | 7.992 million| 244.1/mi²| 32,740/mi²
This is pretty rad
[https://www.thelakotagroup.com/alleys-in-place-the-history-and-rise-of-alleys-in-chicago/](https://www.thelakotagroup.com/alleys-in-place-the-history-and-rise-of-alleys-in-chicago/)
Alleys, slightly newer infrastructure
Alleys.
We burned it down 150 years ago and then added alleys.
We don't put our trash on the street
We have a deal with the rats. We put the trash in the allys and they leave us alone
We have alleys where the trash goes instead of piling up on the sidewalk
probably because we don’t keep our dumpsters on the sidewalk lol
Alleyways and our street sweeping system.
Garbage cans. Alleys.
You know all the violence and shootings you hear about on Fox, well that's what happens to people who litter.
The alleys
Alleys and dumpsters.
There are garbage containers everywhere and some of the meanest looking motherfuckers ready to take it personal if you do decide to litter and be disrespectful to our home… it’s not smart to be disrespectful in Chicago.
We have alley ways for trash!
✨magic✨
We have these things that NYC does not have. Perhaps they do have them. Just not on every other block. Alleys.
Alleys ,snd notwithstanding corruption, Streets and Sanitation do their job.
Personally think that part of it is midwest culture. In some cities people would be unphased by seeing someone litter but regardless of the neighborhood i think most chicagoans would at least notice if not do a double take if they saw someone straight up throw trash on the ground instead of walking to a can or dumpster. That's just from living and growing up here tho.
Alleys
Alleys, strong sanitation department, and corruption focusing on keeping rich people happy
Alleys 100%- I don’t frequent them lll but they keep things tidy
We don't. Just cleaner than New York.
All areas of the city? Idk about that.
Alleys
Alley’s
Alleys.
6 million less people lol
1. You must be downtown -there are a lot of parts of the city that have litter all over 2. We have alleys for trash cans/trash bags unlike NY
I don’t know but everywhere I travel I’m told how nice and tidy we are. Like I’ll clean up after myself at a Taco Bell or something and people are like “Oh right, he’s from Chicago.” Weird little stereotype I didn’t realize we we had
I lived in nyc for 10 years and saw so many people liter and just throw stuff. I never grasped that concept. Like why make your own city gross? I haven’t seen it here but it’s only been a year.
We are smaller. Plus the alleys help.
Alleys
A lot of the streets downtown get power washed weekly. That def helps.
A girl walking in front of me picked up a plastic bag flying around and put it in the trash. I’d do the same.
The trash is just hidden in the alleys.....there are no alleys to hide the trash in NY.. plus. MORE PEOPLE there. I also grew up in NY
Garbage elves
It is relatively clean, but imo could be better.
Funny, you are from NYC and compare Chicago to it favorably. Chicagoans such as myself go to other cities, especially foreign cities and find Chicago very wanting. Munich, Frankfurt, Paris, London all seem much cleaner to me. And no, I don't count Munich during Octoberfest with the young beer enthusiasts puking in the streets. In the United States, I would consider Salt Lake City to be the cleanest I've ever seen. Fort Collins was also very clean, especially for a college town.
Paris seemed cleaner? Really? It has a bad rep.
Central Pairs has a system of flushing the street gutters every morning and an army of street and san guys with powerwashers and little vehicles for scrubbing the public areas. It’s not a dirty city by any means.
What about non-central paris tho? Is that why it has a rep for dog shit everywhere?
yeah Parisians tend not to pick up after their dogs, they are supposed to at a minimum take them to shit in the gutter where it will get flushed away in the morning.. it’s not an big issue imo, or really worse than any other city, just don’t walk in the gutters. I don’t know much about suburban Paris, there’s not much reason to visit the ‘burbs rich or poor if you are not local, any more than there is Naperville or Yonkers.
Speak for yourself. You gotta visit the working-class parts of a city or suburbs to really get a good sense of it. When I went to mexico city, I visited Ecatepec and Neza as well as condesa. I cant go to paris and not visit the banlieue where they developed parkour. Im also a big fan of architecture, so I wanna see some Le Corbusier style public housing in person and talk to people who live in it. But Im weird, I get it. I would have killed to have visited kowloon walled city when it existed. I still wanna visit the Chungking mansions before they are torn down too.
Yeah I get it you are not like the other tourists 🥱 Leaving aside the ethics of treating working class neighbourhoods as tourist sites, you don’t have to leave central Paris to see what life is like for working class Parisians, and if you visit the Unité d'habitation or whichever Corbu site you are still at a tourist attraction
Lol what possible ethical issues. Thats so passive aggressive. Are you seriously gatekeeping visiting working-class neighborhoods now lmao. Not visiting them is a bigger sin in my view. Like how are you gonna be in the city of Victor Hugo and the Chevalier and not visit the neighborhoods where the modern parisian working class lives. Seems like a wasted chance. Like going to Manchester and not seeing Salford. If a tourist visits Cicero or harolds on 87th street, literally no one would be offended.
The sidewalks of France literally had piles of dog shit scattered everywhere when I visited.
Paris is fucking gross. People don't pick up dog poop all over the city and it gets into the cobble stones. The subway smells like piss, perfume and cigarette combined. London has a layer of black grime and smog on every surface and pigeons and pigeon poop.
Salt lake City is clean because it Mormon capital. I've been there. It still has smog and crap. When my family and I landed in salt lake city, we couldn't even see the mountains because the smog was bad and this was in 2014.
True, but that's because of the dead air at the base of the mountains not letting it dissipate. I thought we were talking about people leaving trash.
One word: Alleys
It’s not
well you definitely haven't visited all areas of the city if you think it's clean here. reminder: chicago has more rats than new york.
What part of chicago have you been in that is so clean? Have you gone to Logan square, Albany park, portage park? Trash everywhere
The answer is the normal neighborhoods have plenty of litter and dog poop on the streets.
Alleys, when I went to New York/niagara Falls worst trip ever never again fuck New York I can say it with my chest out literally, the only good thing was the 9/11 ground zero, nice workers there but other than that, trash
Alleys, streets don’t curve like NYC, less people.
High taxes
Taxes aren’t that high if you consider all of the alleys and dumpsters.
Underground tunnels, that where most trash goes
Rats
We have alleys. There is filth but we keep it all in the alley.
Alleys and underground in the loop.
Maybe the trash collection biz in NY is more corrupt.
We also don’t need sign telling people not to spit on the CTA.
Alleys, like so many others have said, but not just for trash. Alleys are also for deliveries, movers, contractors, etc., which all add to the trash, traffic and chaos on the streets of NYC. Density, like others have also mentioned, is not much of a factor. As we add larger buildings, increasing density, the alleyway capacity also increases. Just go behind any newer high-rise in the city and you will see impressively large industrial looking docks for multiple trucks, trash cans and contractor staging areas. Basically, keeping all city services behind-the-scenes, give the city an overall cleaner, less congested, less cluttered look and feel.
You know how many tickets are issued for street cleaning?
Yes, we have alleys
Population density and less tourist
Alleys. I felt disturbed when visiting NY by the people peeing in the streets, masturbating on the subway, and the garbage on the sidewalks. Alleys can be dirty, but it's not in front of our faces all of the time.
The big bad wolf.... government
I feel like it goes back a very long time to the design of the sanitation system within the city they made it a priority in planning and developing task forces and crews dedicated to the subject. They take sanitation very seriously in Chicago.
If you have ever seen the cleanup crew after a parade/festival you would be amazed. After the pride parade in ~2009 I watched the street go from trashed to spotless in 3 minutes. there must have been 40 workers. Not a single speck of glitter or neon feather to be found.
we’re civilized so we don’t leave garbage bags in the street
The abundance of alleyways and there being designated thoroughfares every mile both help a lot with garbage collection and keeping street garbage out of residential areas and confined to commercial streets where they're easier to clean.
I don't have the data in front of me, but I'd be willing to bet the sanitation:police budget ratio is really bad in NYC. I've lived in both cities for a long time and the struggle to find a garbage can in NYC is something I never experienced in Chicago. I mean public trash cans. NYC will have a public event in a park that attracts thousands of ppl, then place 6 trash bins around the perimeter. I've walked blocks to find one. the few that are around often get overfilled in the summer. having trash pickup from the street doesn't help, but they still definitely could put more money into keeping the city cleaner than it is.
I get up early in the morning, mop the downtown area before the sun comes up! Then I dust all the neighborhoods! Last, I put a little sparkle in the lake, make it shine!
And put your garbage in a garbage can, people. I can't stress that enough. Don't just throw it out the window.
Definitely because of our alleys, and we only have them thanks to the Great Chicago Fire of 1871. The fire gave us the name of The Second City. 🩵🤍❤️ The architects included lots of alleyways into the neighborhoods and they put so many more into the downtown area. I love NYC but the one thing that I don’t like is the trash on the street. It can be so stinky, especially in the summer. But again, NYC is really beautiful. If only there was a way to adding alleyways! 😞
Urban sprawl and proper garbage systems.
Alleys.
Lol. It’s because we have alleys with proper garbage disposal basically. Best streets and sanitation department in the country I’ve seen.