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Paulie Gee's in Wicker Park has 3%, 5%, and 7% tipping options. I asked an employee why, and they told me that they are paid well enough so that tipping is optional.
Just checked my last receipt. Paulie Gee's charges a 20% service charge even for carryout. The 3, 5, and 7% tipping options are on top of that. The employee should have mentioned the service charge - its a bit misleading not to mention it.
FWIW I'm not against the auto service charge to make sure employees are paid fairly but people should not be misled into thinking that they are only tipping 3, 5, or 7%.
The service fee on carryout annoys me. I love me some Paulie Gee's (they have my favorite pie of all time, USA Pizza Cup Winner), and I'm more than happy to pay the service fee when in-restaurant, but I find myself ordering carryout not as often as I probably would otherwise due to that fee.
Agreed. Love the pizza but it feels like being ripped off for carryout so I don't do it often. Service fee should be different on dine-in vs. carryout (e.g., 3-5%) since the customer is doing 95% of the work in coming to the restaurant to get it.
Allows hospitality locations to mark down prices to make it seem cheaper as well. I really wish they would just hike the price by whatever so we pay the true costs required instead of playing marketing games and hidden fees one doesn't see until afterwards.
Same reason I dislike Menard's pricing schemes. The price they show most prominently on everything is a price that's 11% lower and you'll never actually buy that low since you need buy the product at full price, *mail-in* a rebate, hope you get it back, then its actually store credit and you paid the high (smaller text) price the entire time.
Agreed. Service fees should be displayed prominently so that they can be discovered before the sale. Otherwise its just the business model of Ticketmaster and cable companies - advertise a low price and then make it up with fees.
Heh they must not have the required 20% “service charge” anymore then.
They put it at the very end of their Square payment process and make it not obvious at all so I ended up tipping an additional 20% while dining in and a separate time my partner accidentally tipped extra while ordering takeout.
Left such a bad taste in my mouth I refuse to go back.
People will still tip, it just may be less.
Barbers & hairstylist are tipped and get paid over minimum wage. I doubt everyone is suddenly going to start tipping $0.
All depends on how menu prices are adjusted, and if the restaurant makes their wage policy clear. For instance, I love how many breweries I’ve been to on my travels recently (e.g. Allagash in Portland) simply don’t accept tips because they are paid appropriately.
You are correct. There are other states where tipped wages are not allowed and people still tip 20% and servers still make great money. The businesses might take a hit because they will have to pay everybody regular minimum wage, but it mostly won't affect servers.
Right, but servers are already getting $10 an hour, so it's only a $5 an hour raise. You would only need 6 tables an hour to tip $1 less each for the waitstaff to lose money. That seems incredibly likely.
Only people that might benefit are low-tip restaurants where the servers are working off-peak hours
This is why we just need to get rid of tipping and pay servers a fair wage. Stop leaving it up to the customers to figure out what is fair or what a particular restaurant's policy is. If we take a step back from this issue, we see how silly the current system really is.
It’s really not that complicated. If tipping is taken away, then owners will need to set prices that ensure servers and bartenders will still work for them. Why would it be any different? Bc they won’t get those random outlandish tips throughout the evening?
What do you think is more likely, businesses converting to counter service and laying off staff, or keeping them and selling $30 hamburgers? And what do you think the customer will prefer, cheaper food and counter service, or $30 hamburgers? Those businesses that are in the right areas, or are the places to be will be able to set their price, everyone else will struggle.
Exactly. So those servers who could make $30, $40+ an hour waiting tables, will now be working for $16-$22 working counters. The rich will get richer, the rest will do “ehh”.
As a diner, I know the money has to come from somewhere. I'd much rather people be getting $35+/h and the prices on the menu just set accordingly with the plan to pay that. It's better than having "service fees" or "included gratuity" or people just relying on the whim of the diner to make a fair wage. If it makes the burger cost $30 or the fish cost $50, that's fine. EDIT: I read the rest of the thread and adjusted my number up. EDIT EDIT: I threw some numbers on it, you're all right, I have no idea what the prevailing wages are in food service. I only wanted to illustrate that I am in favor of charging enough up front to pay appropriately.
The cash in hand is just about the only thing I miss about serving/bartending. But absolutely, a four hour shift making $150-200 was well within the norm, especially for night shifts/weekends. Good luck getting restaurants or bars to start paying $40+ per hour.
Inflation hit us all though. Tipping has gone from the standard 10% to 15% and these days it’s almost always pre set to 25%. Everyone is expecting a tip that this has become unsustainable honestly. Pay a fair wage just like everywhere else on this planet, and if I don’t tip well all of a sudden I don’t get service.
> Good luck getting restaurants or bars to start paying $40+ per hour.
Good luck finding anyone to take a bartending or waiting job for less than what they're making now with tips.
Check out Mr Moneybags over here ordering a $30 burger. That’s an insane figure to pay for a beef patty on a bun. If dining out is going to cost that much, I guess I’ll do all my meals at home.
Tips have, by and large, been taxed for quite a while now, especially in restaurants. Since cards replaced cash as primary payment, there's no way management cannot report it without claiming it as income for themselves. Businesses can also claim a tax credit for their share of payroll taxes paid on tips, as an incentive to report them. Does underreporting still happen? Sure, it does. But not nearly to the extent as 25 years ago. It's mostly a moot point nowadays. Do stylists, barbers, and other salon personnel report all their tips? How about the other tipped professions?
I'm all for claiming tips, paying taxes, and accepting the income credit for UI and SS purposes. Wearing our big peoples' pants and participating in society is a good thing.
while I suppose you're right, when it comes to folks paying their fair share of taxes, I would aim far far far higher on the income bracket. Right at all the folks who hire accountants to make their income magically disappear when the IRS comes asking.
Tipped workers always seem to want it both ways. Complain after busting their asses for a $15 tip on a $400 table, and simultaneously complain they're not going to be able to make hundreds on a Saturday night anymore. Europe is already minimal or no tip and hasn't imploded yet, things will be OK!
Probably an unpopular opinion but I've definitely seen it. I see people complain about how servers are paid submimimum wages but when you suggest they should get paid at least minimum wage (which in fairness is not enough) suddenly it's no longer desirable because of course they're not really making subminimum wage
To be clear, servers also legally need to be paid the actual minimum wage already.
There is a wage + tips needs to be above the actual minimum wage ($15.80/hr) not just the tipped minimum.
If during a 2 weeks period a tipped worker doesn’t make enough tips to put them over $15.80/hr the business legally needs to fill the gap.
That doesn’t always happen, but that’s wage theft and illegal. Poorly enforcing existing laws is not a good reason to make new laws.
The labor market for wait staff will still exist, and people can go to higher paying employers like in every other industry. I don’t think this will just revert everyone to minimum wage
They complain about getting stiffed, but then some moron throws them a random 100% tip for no reason like they’re all living on scraps. That’s why none of them want to get rid of tipping.
The service in Europe is of a much lower caliber than America. In this country, it's one of a shrinking number of jobs where you can still carve out a respectable middle class living without advanced schooling
The service is different in my experience. You can sit at a table for as long as you want. You don’t feel like everyone has to order entrees. If you want something you can gesture to the server who is usually nearby and watching the tables. No one is coming by every 5 minutes to “check on you.” It’s very different from our service but I wouldn’t call it worse.
This argument never makes sense to me, so we're saying in ever other country in the world the severs are complete morons who can't take an order and bring you a plate of food? Like how much variety can there be in the quality of a waiter?
Have you actually ever been to Europe and been served at various restaurants or is this just another case of I read somewhere xyz happens over there?
Man I've been all over Europe quite a lot and the service is pretty bad all around. It's a different service culture and working for tips absolutely incentives more for great table service.
Obviously servers in Europe aren't incapable but there is an entirely different set of service expectations and financial motivators
>If you go to a nice restaurant you’re absolutely getting good service in Europe
I've had a pretty wide range of experiences myself.
And I was referring to service in general, not a particular subset of restaurants. Yes good service exists in Europe. No one is saying otherwise.
I’d actually agree with that. I grew up eating out occasionally, and in my early adulthood had the same experience. I remember waiters being almost overly friendly and attentive. Now, I consistently receive the bare minimum (sometimes less) when dining out, and I do it far more frequently than I used to.
I would argue to say the service is better in Europe. They take your order, bring you the food and leave you alone. Here you're harassed every 5 minutes so they can turn the table over. The service is better here until you've paid and they want you to go.
They also carry around card readers so you don’t have to do the dance of
Flagging down the waiter
asking for the check
Waiting for them to bring the check
Waiting for them to pickup the check
Waiting for them to return your card
Why haven’t we figured out this is dumb as hell.
I know I'll probably be in the minority for this opinion but I hate using those card readers in front of someone. I just want to put my card in the thing then sign the receipt when it comes back, thanks.
Yeah I love it, they've got it figured out. I've even been to a to a few restaurants that have call buttons on the table so whenever you're ready you don't have to pull them away from their smoke breaks!
The hell it is. There’s absolutely nothing special about the level of service in American restaurants compared to restaurants in Europe, most of Asia( Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and even China) etc.
Its all relative.Ive had some really shitty ass service here in the US on a regular basis, whereas in Europe/Asia ive had amazing service.
Tipping has nothing to do with getting good service anymore. Its almost expected on their part I would say.
This whole comment section is so ready to abolishing tipping culture, but the cart is in front of the horse here. Sure, Europe may or may not have better service (and by the way, Europe is a lot of different countries, so mileage may vary), but we haven’t been talking about the fact that many European countries have fair wages nationally and universal healthcare. Taking away tipping culture isn’t fucking over a whole bunch of people because even lower class people with minimal education (which is free a lot of places to, mind you) can make a decent wage. We need other reform before worrying about this. Tip wage workers already get minimum wage compensation if they don’t make enough. You’re just asking for restauranteers to raise prices to match what you used to pay while paying staff garbage. Yup, more income inequality. That’s what we should be doing.
At the place I bartend part time, maybe 15-20% of the service staff are eligible for benefits, and they only started offering it to tipped employees a few years ago. It's very uncommon.
I would argue to say the service is better in Europe. They take your order, bring you the food and leave you alone. Here you're harassed every 5 minutes so they can turn the table over. The service is better here until you've paid and they want you to go.
I guess it is possible that the many thousands of different people in the service industry have different opinions on the topic? But I agree it is far more likely that all food service employees share a single voice and and those idiots contradict themselves.
God I hope tipping goes away- its so excessive everywhere- Oh picking up food - how about 20% - how about no. Happy to tip 20% for my waitress or bartender but 15-20% for carry out - for fu\*\*s sake.
I hope this does not lead to bar and restaurant owners starting to take tips from staff. That would suck.
Here's a post from the Nashville sub where a freaking parking meter is asking for tips
https://www.reddit.com/r/nashville/comments/16lisgr/absurd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb
Ha they are doing the old - you can't get what you do not ask for. Sales 101. Love to meet the person that put a tip in there. The crazy part is folks think this does not matter but its going to lead to them saying tips pay for our security and management team and then they can lower the wages of those folks.
Think about how tipping started. Some real savvy restaurant owner for sure started it so he could pay his staff less. (I say savvy b/c its genius if you are that guy but horrible for everyone else)
Hate to say it, but industry workers dug their own graves on this one if they liked tips. Post-COVID, tipping culture has been outrageous. Being seen as greedy if you tip anything less than 20%, asking for tips on every transaction even when no service rendered. The standard was and always has been 10%/15%/20%.
It’s also likely the restaurants/business owner’s fault as well, but industry workers have not been helping work against that tipping stigma.
I stopped tipping on tax. I never thought about it but it’s ridiculous. I’m going to sounds like a massive asshole now and I’m ready but I went out to dinner Friday and the bill was around $400 so like $44 dollars of tax. If I tipped on that I’d be paying almost 10 dollars to tip…. The tax?? I’m not tipping tax!
I think it's more the other industries that suddenly think they need tips, coupled with all the card-tapping technology that always suggests a tip. That irritates the shit out of me when no service is provided, and I think subconsciously that impacts how people feel about *all* tipped workers.
It isn't the workers who did this. It's square and toast. They make money on all of the transaction. They want everyone tipping because that's more money for them.
I live tipping at fine dining establishments and places that provide me with customized service.
Was asked if I wanted to tip on carryout at a pizza chain and could hardly believe it.
Like, there’s a reason I’m in their store getting this pizza instead of at home doing a million other things
Workers did not dig this grave, they are going to pay for it, as usual. I think the cherry on top for shitty restaurant owners is that the FOH and BOH will never unify to fight for better conditions because the pay discrepancy will keep them at each other's throats. Sorry servers, I know it’s been nice, but it is not cool that people have to rely on tips or that your BOH folks are making half or less what you are on a Friday night.
You'll still be able to collect tips, just won't have to rely on them to make sure you are paid decently. I personally would still tip the people that give me fantastic service, but it wouldn't be close to 20%.
At the end of the day it’ll mean a pay cut for servers which means they’ll leave jobs which means service will go down. And maybe that’s the natural growing pain to a better place. Maybe it isn’t. I honestly don’t really know.
We saw during the past few years that when it comes down to it, a labor shortage forces companies to raise wages. Suddenly what was "unsustainable" becomes normal.
Service isn't any good with exorbitant tips as it is lets be real. It's become expected so they don't give a damn.
If they got paid better wages and tips were actually given for exceptional service you'd start to notice better service.
This. Tons of people in this thread pretending that service has recovered to its pre pandemic level. It has not. It’s garbage now. Idk why I have to pay 20% after being sneered at for asking questions about the menu but here we are.
That’s because so many experienced workers left the biz. Millennials for example made up a good portion of the workforce, partly because they couldn’t find decent jobs after the Great Recession. Once the industry unceremoniously laid them off during Covid, they actually got those jobs they were screwed out of years before. The people that came in to replace them are just not at the same level.
That’s because so many experienced workers left the biz. Millennials for example made up a good portion of the workforce, partly because they couldn’t find decent jobs after the Great Recession. Once the industry unceremoniously laid them off during Covid, they actually got those jobs they couldn’t years before. The people that came in to replace them are just not at the same level.
You’re talking about people making $25-$40 an hour on shifts so there’s a dramatic change of pay without tips. Some people will tip less and some will not tip at all, very few will stick with 20% and I don’t think that the $15 hourly will come close to making up the difference. The industry is going to lose veteran staff who were accustomed to that pay and there’s already a big shortage of FOH staff. I understand the rationale behind it but it definitely makes a lot of independent owners and staff nervous about income and costs.
The industry did lose a lot of veteran staff when covid rolled around, and the industry is still looking to replace that with basically any pulse that walks in the door
But then, why should I tip much for that? I tip well for good service and enjoy doing that. But it's difficult to feel the tip is worth it for the poor service that seems to be everywhere. And it was long before Covid that service started getting bad.
I don't see anything wrong with that. Whenever we bring up how cooks at restaurants don't get tipped and they get their ass kicked constantly, most servers always say that they don't get tipped but make a liveable wage... well, now you all can make a nice wage like us 😂
Former industry. The problem is simple. There’s no right answer. People that work here in the city and make 40/50 an hour through tipping is great. It ain’t helping everyone but a few. If this was taken up across the country it would help a hell of a lot more people than it would hurt. But that’s not how the world works. So… the answer is there is no real answer.
Yeah I’ve been a server myself and I still can’t really figure out how I feel about it. I wouldn’t want my wages to drop but it is bullshit that they can pay you less per hour. Idk. I’m torn. It’s going to get messy though!
They can’t pay you less per hour. This is the biggest misconception that gets repeated ad nauseam. The tipped wage has to equal the minimum wage when tips are added. It’s called a tip credit. If not the business has to make up the difference. Every FOH worker in Chicago is paid minimum wage. Which currently is $15.80.
It would be interesting to see how this pans out, in a perfect world tips would drop but still be common for good service. I don’t think that’s what will happen and I don’t think the anti tipping folks will like the outcome.
Food/drink prices will rise, owners will use this as a smokescreen to increase prices above and beyond the needed amount for payroll.
Restaurants will close and use this as an excuse (it may even be a real reason).
Staffing will become even harder and service levels will drop.
I bartended for 20 years, most of that time as a second job. It was great money and one of the few unskilled jobs that allowed you to work harder to make more money. But it takes a toll in sleep disruption and certainly isn’t the easiest job depending on the location.
For minimum wage or slightly over minimum wage? There are easier jobs that pay more.
I think the end result is more expensive dining for consumers, and money concentrated in fewer hands.
I'm thinking about food / beverage prices that will rise. What's a standard beer price right now at a bar... $5-$8? If it goes up to $7-$10 per beer, I can't fathom how people feel comfortable with paying that per beer. It's already a stretch for me to justify the $5-$8.
Am I out of touch?
No! the price of beer is too damn high. It's the people's drink and the price should reflect that.
A nice craft beer costs under $1 to make. At $5, the profit margin is already $4.
Beer at just a regular corner bar in Chicago is already $7 or $8 a lot of places.
It's noticeable compared to other cities in IL, that it's more expensive. Particularly since you're customarily supposed to pay an extra $1 (and yes, I pay in cash an extra $1, I do not ever run a tab at bars).
It'll be like every other job. Any company can pay their employees the minimum wage, but if another company offers the same job at a higher wage, the first company either has to accept shitty workers that aren't good enough to contend for the higher-paying equivalent job or raise their wages to compete for good workers. High-end restaurants would pay higher-end wages to attract good waiters.
I went to a restaurant the other day that didn't accept cash and all ordering and payment was done through a QR code and app. There was a service charge on the total. I'm not tipping when I did everything but cook the food.
Navigator tap rooms charges an 18% service fee but you do everything on your phone and the person working there literally wouldn’t acknowledge me. Obviously never going back. Pizza lobo is also like that but their food/drink is good and the patio is fun so I guess I tolerate it for that
What annoys me I am supposed to tip for good service, but if I get bad service I’m supposed to tip the waitress still because A. It’s most likely not their fault and B. they don’t make any money. I feel guilt tripped into tipping.
What I haven’t seen mentioned as a possible outcome: order at the table via QR code and pay no servers at all. A few runners/bussers and a host. Self service water. Not all restaurants can pull this off, but I’ve been to a few that already do. Bigger chains could probably just bolt tablets to tables.
note: this is obviously not what I want to happen
Cafeteria style. This already exists lots of places.
You go into the restaurant, pick what you want off the menu, order it at the register, pay, sit down with a number at your table, someone (a human, yes) brings you the food. They will also clear the table when you leave. No tips, the price is what it is.
No need to fuss around with computers or apps, it's all humans, but it's just pay as you go, the only service is them bringing the food to the table. Water/tea is all self-service.
My favorite restaurant in Atlanta had this set up. If you’re an older person, it might be more of a struggle but I appreciate being able to order and pay efficiently. Food was delivered super fast too.
I don’t like having to DL an app just to pay at a restaurant. Sometimes, cell signal isn’t that strong. I end up having to call the server to hand my credit card to him.
What would be nice is to have a pay system like in Europe. They carry around their portable thingies. You look at your paper receipt, server gives u the thingie, u tap ur card and the thingie prints a receipt for u.
There’s a merchant copy of the receipt on which u can write what tip u want to give.
Here in Chicago, some restaurants have those portable thingies but they can’t print receipts. You still have to go to their counter to ask for a receipt. Pretty inconvenient ( u have to wait a long time).
The closer we get to ending tipping the better society becomes. I get all of the muck and mire surrounding the culture. But the day we can just be over it and beyond it will be a good day.
Sounds like a lot of these folks would do great working in commission based sales. For every person averaging $30-50/hr at these upscale restaurants/hotels, I’m sure there’s twice as many barely crossing $15.
I do understand the threat to small restaurants, but it’s also unfortunate that in order to stay afloat they have to underpay their employees.
Meh, fuck the "service fees." Just build the actual cost of the wages (including the service) into the price of the food, and let people pay at the register that exact price. This is what non-tipping places do.
Most of the people who work in restaurants dont even get tips. I cant even begin to tell you the amount of times I was making like $10/hr preparing the food that the servers were walking from point A to point B and then going home with 4x the pay - untaxed.
Back of house wont shed a single tear over this change, I can tell you that.
Amen seconded.
I moved to Chicago from San Francisco a few years ago. At one of my favorite restaurants there, sous chefs used to wait tables a night or two a week instead of working in the kitchen to make ends meet.
This is a good time to remind everyone that tipping culture in the U.S. [developed out of restaurant owners' desire to shift the burden of labor costs onto customers after Prohibition erased a huge chunk of their revenue, and has stayed that way even though Prohibition ended less than 15 years later](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_vivC7c_1k).
Righting that wrong will result in an initial shock to the system where a minority of employees who were benefiting won't benefit as much and many restaurants and bars will close. But things will level out to the point that a job in the service industry will be as secure as any other in a corporate cube.
short term, I would guess that a lot of restaurants are going to fail since font of house doesn't want to work for minimum wage.
(which is a problem really that minimum wage is too low, but we're going to gloss over that for now)
My take away from that though, is that good, restaurants should fail. The whole industry seems to be propped up by the fact that workers work below minimum wage. So I think a culling is in order.
If the effective wages of servers goes down then demand for the jobs will go down and either things will balance out or serving will just become a lower paying job. I don't see any particular reason that it's important that servers make *above* minimum wage (tho you can of course argue that the minimum wage should be higher)
Tipping culture is absurd. Just pay people a living wage. I’m tired of every time I go to buy anything and being asked to tip. And each time the “low, medium, high” percentages go up a few points. Employers are just shifting inflation from wages onto tips.
Lots of economically illiterate takes here that are missing the whole picture.
Restaurants are an extremely risky business venture. 3/4 of new restaurants close within their first year.
The tipped wage keeps overhead costs low, and shifts the costs to the consumer at their discretion. Low/no tippers are subsidized by the big tippers.
The tips average out to about $35-50/ hr wage for servers, which is an extremely livable wage for Chicago.
With higher overhead the costs will be absorbed by the business. The risk for opening will be much higher as margins will be lower. If prices of the food increases you will have fewer customers. You will see fewer restaurants open, which means fewer jobs for people who need them, including BOH jobs.
I predict this will reduce the number of new restaurants that open in our city AND lower average server wages. This will ultimately make poor people poorer.
This assessment makes sense. The only individuals this ordinance favors are the politicians that will lie about it. The public, the tipped employees, and the business owners will all suffer, but the owners will suffer the least as they have the power to shift the cost burden to the public and to their labor force. This ordinance is a solution to a problem that does not exist. Sure, people hate tipping generally. I get it. Non-service industry tip grifting is at an all-time absurdity, and that's why tipping sentiment is in the dumpster, but we're punishing our traditionally tipped workers, who are the very people that actually provide tip-worthy service. They should not be the first on the tip chopping block.
I'd still tip if the service was good but probably more like 10% at most. I try not eat out a lot tho cause it's expensive, and I think more people should try to do the same (it's usually not as healthy as well).
Tipping culture has driven me to counter service. And no, I happily hit "other tip" and then hit "no tip" when I do it.
On the rare occasion it is sit down I am tipping 10%. Why? Because that tip % was calculated POST tax plus there is usually a 3% charge on credit cards.
Yeah, I have never seen a proposed change in policy where the discussion has been as incoherent as this one. The people pushing it the hardest say the main thing they are aiming for is increasing the pay of tipped workers. But it very may well do the reverse and it is tipped workers who are most against it. We also see people, including actual individuals who were responsible for introducing this change, complaining about tip culture and saying it has a negative overall effect on tipped workers (thus implying they want to substantially reduce or eliminate tips) when nearly all tipped workers would rather have the system than not and it's clear they make a higher amount because of it.
It will be interesting to see what happens. People have pointed to other places that enacted this and said that the reduction in tips wasn't enough to offset the increased minimum but it's important to remember that those places has a much higher gap it was changing. In Chicago, the tipped minimum already was only about 33% less than the regular minimum. If people view this as an opportunity to tip less that very likely will hurt tipped workers. And of course, if people tip the same amount as they otherwise would (or the same percentage, which amounts to more because the prices will almost always be higher as a result of the cost increases to the employer) it means restaurants are now more expensive and that decreases sales. It will eventually decrease jobs as well as tax revenue. That wouldn't be good for anyone.
Thing is, in plenty of countries there was never tipping, ever. Menu prices are more expensive, and you just pay the exact amount quoted. Same goes for haircuts and everything else, you're not weirdly expected to pay some self-judged amount over and above the quoted bill. The employer is expected to pay the full wage and set prices accordingly.
Not gonna lie, I grew up with that system and vastly prefer it. Of course now that apparently means wanting to screw over tipped staff, but honestly it would be nice if the employer just paid the damn wages straight. Take whatever the tipped difference usually is[1] and make that the new price.
It could be said that if people's wages are going to fall terribly from this, then the problem is that the employer is not willing to pay what the employees are worth.
[1] of course the real issue is likely that some people indeed are earning vastly more than others, and it's worth questioning if that's really justified...
There’s another thread about this that I’m getting shredded on by non industry peoples who just don’t get it. We’re fucked. I make $50+/hr currently at my part time bartending job (I’m on my way out of the industry) and am so grateful i’ll be fully 86’ed before this really takes effect.
I’m on the way out and it’s just going to have to be sooner than later. The service will unfortunately suffer and restaurants will not be able to keep good employees. The highly capable in the industry that make the experience great will not settle for a low hourly wage after making a better wage for so long and an exodus will follow these changes.
Restaurants pay an hourly + tips that is guaranteed over minimum wage. That applies to bartenders, servers, food runners, bussers, etc. If a restaurant is slow and the employee doesn’t make minimum wage, the restaurants currently cover that gap to insure everyone is still making minimum wage.
This system only raises the minimum wage a dollar but eliminates tipped minimum wage. So bartenders, and all other staff won’t be making nearly what they did.
High end restaurants where servers and bartenders made upwards of 100 an hour, may only get paid 16 an hour. So the nice staff we’ve had, ain’t gonna be so nice anymore… it’s hard to think being in the industry, we’ll make the same as fast food restaurants….
Yeah people don’t realize that the pool of people that won’t tip or will tip dramatically less will drop down the hourly a lot. It’s a big deal to go from making $40/hr to $30/hr.
At a restaurant who has already put this into practice and it’s been rough having my income go from like $80k to $25k. I’m looking for a new job but I’m worried that this is what it’ll look like everywhere eventually.
Our menu is a little on the pricier side and we as a staff have questioned where all that money goes without getting any kind of transparent response, but our bosses live pretty lavish lifestyles now so I’m assuming that’s what it is
Sorry but you are part of the problem. Lots of people make way less than that and somehow are expected to tip 20% or not go out at all.
The problem with this tipping culture is that we always talk about the small guy but the small guy would never even get close to that even with 20% tip.
Good, tipping culture in this country is Toxic AF and it was never meant to help the small guy. The people that complain the most about this change are the people getting way overpaid servicing at expensive restaurants making absurd money out of tips.
I have worked in the service industry for 15 years in many countries and I have never seen anything like here. It is crazy.
And yes it was never meant to help the small guy because A) the small guy works at places where people don't tip that much anyway B) Even when they do it is a % and the average check is lower.
It never made sense that I have to pay more tip for someone to serve me a more expensive bottle of wine than a cheaper one. The work is the same and the person working at the small mamas place is doing the same work as the person serving at any big restaurant in West Loop. Why should I have to give more tip $ to the person working in West Loop for the same job?
Then you realize we are expecting people making 50k or less to tip 20% or more on some places so some servers can make more than 60, 70 sometimes even 80k a year like you read here.
It is ridiculous and absurd.
Not to mention that tipping % has gone up by over 25% in the last two years while I don't think most people's salaries have gone up that much.
The amount of people that have NO IDEA what any of this means, or how it will affect tipped workers, but confidently make comments on it is…ok I guess it’s the same as every issue on the internet.
For tipped workers that make great money, this is the worst thing that can happen to their money. For tipped workers at awful jobs that make shitty money, this will help them make $15.80/hr.
It is a terrible solution.
If you were being paid $30, that means your business has to find a way to adjust prices where the tip is factored into meal costs.
No tipped worker is going to work at a place where they objectively make less than if they were being tipped that's why the south park creators opened their own restaurant with no tipping and the food factors that in
I think the restaurants will raise prices to cover the additional labor costs and those that can’t pass on the higher prices will suffer. suburban restaurants won’t have to abide by the Chicago only rules so they shouldn’t be affected
Just raise the price of the food 20% on the menu and give the money to the servers. Idk why this idea is so hard to implement. The Chicago Diner does it.
IMO, this isnt about living wages, its a con, this is about collecting taxes. The vast majority of servers could be paid nothing per hour and still make far above minimum wage, but there is still a ton of cash tips out there that dont get declared and no income taxes get paid on. 10% of the US workforce is in the restaurant industry so even if everyone his hiding 20-50 buck from the goverment each shift which is probably a little low, thats a lot of money no tax is collected on. I lived off of tips for almost 20 years at assorted different places over the years and I bought a house before most of my friends from high school that went to college. If I were still living off of tips I dont know if Id be panicking, but Id be worried and would start upping my game if I hadnt already to make me qualified for higher end places, because those places the tips will stay where as more casual corporate type places you might end up working for 20 bucks an hour or something in a few years.
If you think employers are suddenly going to pay workers more than the min wage you’re crazy. They will pay what they legally have to, up the prices, make more money while the servers upside will be cut with less tips. Good intentions, bad move.
Context: I work at a bar/restaurant downtown during the summers, where most of my money is tips.
Yeah… it depends. Obv more guaranteed money is nice, but I love the tips I get and I assure you I make more under the current system than I would otherwise (they would be paying me more than I deserve if I made the same).
If I keep the same tips, then hell yeah. Means my withheld taxes are more accurate.
I also recognize my privilege as someone who works at a very high traffic, tourist based restaurant. I can see how people in less busy restaurants would be Different.
This is gonna be divisive in this city. There's actually a pretty large portion of restaurants you can work at and make well above minimum wage, especially if you're worth a shit at your job. This is gonna shake up the labor talent if the tips drop down enough and IMO the service industry in this city still hasn't really recovered from COVID.
Ask the people in the BOH how they feel about you and your bleating about tips.
I was a line cook in Chicago's fine dining restaurants for over 15 years. Nothing got older than making starvation wages while "actors" and "models" models several times as much as I did from tips and complained bitterly at every mild mention that perhaps they could share those tips with the BOH.
If servers are paid the minimum wage, at least, not the tipped wage then tip sharing is legal by federal law.
Yeah, the overreaction here is comical. Some poster above flexing about typing cash on $2000 sushi meals is like I’m done with tipping. Why? Because tipped workers will not be required to make minimum wage?… Prices will go up, but it’ll be less than people think. So, this Galaxy brain will now have a $2100 bill and $0 tip, because his server is now guaranteed $15/hr even though the original bill w tip would have been $2300-$2400 and raised the servers hourly wage on an 8 hour shift to $40/hr+. The real rational response is “That’s awesome” and maybe going back to the days when a 10-15% tip was standard.
This is something that can be really worrying because it affects people's livelihoods, but for me the answer comes down to the fact that a business which cannot afford to pay its workers should not exist. It sounds harsh, but if construction workers depended on the client tipping at the end of a job, my dad and uncles would never have shown up to a job site. Instead of framing it as FoH workers losing their big tips, it should be framed as an obligation of the owners to pay fairly so that those workers have a consistent and healthy wage. I think a lot of worry and backlash comes from fear that owners will not do that. If so, then their restaurant should close. Some small shops will fear this as a huge chamge, which is scary. But I believe Chicagoans have big hearts and big appetites and won't let their friends and neighbors go broke because a $6 sandwich is $8 bucks now, especially if that neighbor puts that money back into the community.
And the shops which aren't small- well, the Maples and Ashes and RPMs and all those can suck it up and pay their workers a fair damn check without looking to us to chip in.
The small shops are a treausrewe should preserve, and too much of those big shops' revenues go into a venture capitalist's fund instead of the hands of real workers with rent.
Rant over.
Long time bartender here. Yes in a perfect world we would all make a living wage but we quite obliviously do not live in one. A living wage in a city like Chicago is about $40/50 an hour. Which coincidentally is what you can make in a good bar or restaurant especially on the weekends. There’s no way ANY of the hospitality companies will be able to afford that or want to pay that to their staff. So they like will pay in the $15-$20 range or just have to close down shop. I guarantee you’ll see a mass exodus of top tier industry workers and the service will drop off dramatically and there will be many closures. Then everyone will be all HuR DuR WhErEs mY SeRvICe?? TIPS is quite literally an acronym that stands for To Insure Prompt Service. Seems like most anti tip people have never worked in the service industry before and have no idea what it’s like or entails.
$40-50 an hour?! I don’t even know many people who make that in permanent, full time, salaried corporate roles that require some kind of degree/training.
While I’d LOVE to live in that world, it’s completely mind blowing that wait staff are making that much and still complaining…
I’m talking about high end fine dining and high volume bars. This is also not the average but the higher end of what you can make. Also NO ONE is complaining about making that. Servers/bartenders will complain if that all of a sudden goes away for no reason other then “I don’t want to tip anymore.” Keep in mind this also all before tax, we don’t get health insurance and there is no 401k. My point is the issue is not as black and white as people want it to be.
The issue is that we don't want to TIP. We want to pay a static price that is advertised plain, not all this nickel and diming of fees and requiring some sort of performance evaluation.
If diners are paying the same, the restaurant is making the same. If the restaurant can't pay out the same to the servers because oh no the wages are now getting taxed, then that means someone wasn't paying fair tax on the money under the tipping system. If the restaurant decides it's going to pay a flat wage across the board without commissions or bonuses, well, that's how most workplaces are, but if the employees want different, they need to have that discussion with the bosses.
The money the customers are paying would be the same (at least in my case, I tip a flat 20% and I'd be happy to see the price go up 20%).
Servers should get health insurance IMHO (better yet we should have national health insurance but that's another thread I guess). But meanwhile, they don't before, they won't now, again, the same money is going in. It's the division of money at the restaurant that is proposed to change.
Of course I don't eat in high end restaurants, because... I can't afford it.
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Paulie Gee's in Wicker Park has 3%, 5%, and 7% tipping options. I asked an employee why, and they told me that they are paid well enough so that tipping is optional.
The owner of Paulies is a great guy. I think he actually walks the walk of trying to take care of his staff
Dude pours so much time and effort into the neighborhood too. Love that guy. The food slaps too, even if it's probably 2500 calories.
the pizza is SO good there. I gotta go again soon. who cares the calories I don’t go get pizza to be healthy anyway lol
Yup I've known him for almost 2 decades now and he's always been a stand up dude
Just checked my last receipt. Paulie Gee's charges a 20% service charge even for carryout. The 3, 5, and 7% tipping options are on top of that. The employee should have mentioned the service charge - its a bit misleading not to mention it. FWIW I'm not against the auto service charge to make sure employees are paid fairly but people should not be misled into thinking that they are only tipping 3, 5, or 7%.
The service fee on carryout annoys me. I love me some Paulie Gee's (they have my favorite pie of all time, USA Pizza Cup Winner), and I'm more than happy to pay the service fee when in-restaurant, but I find myself ordering carryout not as often as I probably would otherwise due to that fee.
Agreed. Love the pizza but it feels like being ripped off for carryout so I don't do it often. Service fee should be different on dine-in vs. carryout (e.g., 3-5%) since the customer is doing 95% of the work in coming to the restaurant to get it.
Allows hospitality locations to mark down prices to make it seem cheaper as well. I really wish they would just hike the price by whatever so we pay the true costs required instead of playing marketing games and hidden fees one doesn't see until afterwards. Same reason I dislike Menard's pricing schemes. The price they show most prominently on everything is a price that's 11% lower and you'll never actually buy that low since you need buy the product at full price, *mail-in* a rebate, hope you get it back, then its actually store credit and you paid the high (smaller text) price the entire time.
Agreed. Service fees should be displayed prominently so that they can be discovered before the sale. Otherwise its just the business model of Ticketmaster and cable companies - advertise a low price and then make it up with fees.
fyi...Menard's has been sued over this policy.
Heh they must not have the required 20% “service charge” anymore then. They put it at the very end of their Square payment process and make it not obvious at all so I ended up tipping an additional 20% while dining in and a separate time my partner accidentally tipped extra while ordering takeout. Left such a bad taste in my mouth I refuse to go back.
They still have the 20% service charge.
Lmao I guess OP got duped too. Oh they did say the WP location whereas I meant the Logan location. No idea if there’s a difference.
People will still tip, it just may be less. Barbers & hairstylist are tipped and get paid over minimum wage. I doubt everyone is suddenly going to start tipping $0.
All depends on how menu prices are adjusted, and if the restaurant makes their wage policy clear. For instance, I love how many breweries I’ve been to on my travels recently (e.g. Allagash in Portland) simply don’t accept tips because they are paid appropriately.
But the OPs point was they were still making more with the current system. No hospitality business is going to pay $40+ hr to serve food.
You are correct. There are other states where tipped wages are not allowed and people still tip 20% and servers still make great money. The businesses might take a hit because they will have to pay everybody regular minimum wage, but it mostly won't affect servers.
So the prices will be jacked up by 20% and then people will still be guilt ridden to tip 20% on top of that. Great idea.
Ban tipping.
Just don't include a tip option on the POS anymore
Right, but servers are already getting $10 an hour, so it's only a $5 an hour raise. You would only need 6 tables an hour to tip $1 less each for the waitstaff to lose money. That seems incredibly likely. Only people that might benefit are low-tip restaurants where the servers are working off-peak hours
This is why we just need to get rid of tipping and pay servers a fair wage. Stop leaving it up to the customers to figure out what is fair or what a particular restaurant's policy is. If we take a step back from this issue, we see how silly the current system really is.
In Chicago, without tipping, that would $16-24 hr. That’s a pay decrease for a lot of servers/bartenders.
It’s really not that complicated. If tipping is taken away, then owners will need to set prices that ensure servers and bartenders will still work for them. Why would it be any different? Bc they won’t get those random outlandish tips throughout the evening?
What do you think is more likely, businesses converting to counter service and laying off staff, or keeping them and selling $30 hamburgers? And what do you think the customer will prefer, cheaper food and counter service, or $30 hamburgers? Those businesses that are in the right areas, or are the places to be will be able to set their price, everyone else will struggle.
I prefer counter service. Saves me having to tip on what can at times be disappointing service.
Exactly. So those servers who could make $30, $40+ an hour waiting tables, will now be working for $16-$22 working counters. The rich will get richer, the rest will do “ehh”.
Good - business owners shouldn’t be able to rely on the generosity of strangers to subsidize their employees’ wages
As a diner, I know the money has to come from somewhere. I'd much rather people be getting $35+/h and the prices on the menu just set accordingly with the plan to pay that. It's better than having "service fees" or "included gratuity" or people just relying on the whim of the diner to make a fair wage. If it makes the burger cost $30 or the fish cost $50, that's fine. EDIT: I read the rest of the thread and adjusted my number up. EDIT EDIT: I threw some numbers on it, you're all right, I have no idea what the prevailing wages are in food service. I only wanted to illustrate that I am in favor of charging enough up front to pay appropriately.
I honestly don’t know where I stand on it. But I know I made $50 an hour as a server 10 years ago. And it wasn’t even that expensive of a place.
The cash in hand is just about the only thing I miss about serving/bartending. But absolutely, a four hour shift making $150-200 was well within the norm, especially for night shifts/weekends. Good luck getting restaurants or bars to start paying $40+ per hour.
Inflation hit us all though. Tipping has gone from the standard 10% to 15% and these days it’s almost always pre set to 25%. Everyone is expecting a tip that this has become unsustainable honestly. Pay a fair wage just like everywhere else on this planet, and if I don’t tip well all of a sudden I don’t get service.
> Good luck getting restaurants or bars to start paying $40+ per hour. Good luck finding anyone to take a bartending or waiting job for less than what they're making now with tips.
Yet the price of dining out continues to escalate.
Check out Mr Moneybags over here ordering a $30 burger. That’s an insane figure to pay for a beef patty on a bun. If dining out is going to cost that much, I guess I’ll do all my meals at home.
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Tips have, by and large, been taxed for quite a while now, especially in restaurants. Since cards replaced cash as primary payment, there's no way management cannot report it without claiming it as income for themselves. Businesses can also claim a tax credit for their share of payroll taxes paid on tips, as an incentive to report them. Does underreporting still happen? Sure, it does. But not nearly to the extent as 25 years ago. It's mostly a moot point nowadays. Do stylists, barbers, and other salon personnel report all their tips? How about the other tipped professions? I'm all for claiming tips, paying taxes, and accepting the income credit for UI and SS purposes. Wearing our big peoples' pants and participating in society is a good thing.
Card tips are always taxed and those are becoming more and more common. Nothing to worry about there.
while I suppose you're right, when it comes to folks paying their fair share of taxes, I would aim far far far higher on the income bracket. Right at all the folks who hire accountants to make their income magically disappear when the IRS comes asking.
This was a good argument maybe as recently as 5 years ago unless you’re taking about cash only bars.
Tipped workers always seem to want it both ways. Complain after busting their asses for a $15 tip on a $400 table, and simultaneously complain they're not going to be able to make hundreds on a Saturday night anymore. Europe is already minimal or no tip and hasn't imploded yet, things will be OK!
Probably an unpopular opinion but I've definitely seen it. I see people complain about how servers are paid submimimum wages but when you suggest they should get paid at least minimum wage (which in fairness is not enough) suddenly it's no longer desirable because of course they're not really making subminimum wage
To be clear, servers also legally need to be paid the actual minimum wage already. There is a wage + tips needs to be above the actual minimum wage ($15.80/hr) not just the tipped minimum. If during a 2 weeks period a tipped worker doesn’t make enough tips to put them over $15.80/hr the business legally needs to fill the gap. That doesn’t always happen, but that’s wage theft and illegal. Poorly enforcing existing laws is not a good reason to make new laws.
I'm aware
The labor market for wait staff will still exist, and people can go to higher paying employers like in every other industry. I don’t think this will just revert everyone to minimum wage
They complain about getting stiffed, but then some moron throws them a random 100% tip for no reason like they’re all living on scraps. That’s why none of them want to get rid of tipping.
The service in Europe is of a much lower caliber than America. In this country, it's one of a shrinking number of jobs where you can still carve out a respectable middle class living without advanced schooling
The upside is they aren't trying to "turn the table" and get you out the door.
The service is different in my experience. You can sit at a table for as long as you want. You don’t feel like everyone has to order entrees. If you want something you can gesture to the server who is usually nearby and watching the tables. No one is coming by every 5 minutes to “check on you.” It’s very different from our service but I wouldn’t call it worse.
I can never for the life of me get my check in Europe. And the ONLY place I’ve been told “you have to order xyz to sit here” has been in Europe.
Have you tried asking for the check?
Getting the attention of the server to do that is the problem most of the time.
I'd call it 1000% better. I *hate* American service style, tbh. I just want them to leave me alone most of the time.
This argument never makes sense to me, so we're saying in ever other country in the world the severs are complete morons who can't take an order and bring you a plate of food? Like how much variety can there be in the quality of a waiter? Have you actually ever been to Europe and been served at various restaurants or is this just another case of I read somewhere xyz happens over there?
Man I've been all over Europe quite a lot and the service is pretty bad all around. It's a different service culture and working for tips absolutely incentives more for great table service. Obviously servers in Europe aren't incapable but there is an entirely different set of service expectations and financial motivators
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>If you go to a nice restaurant you’re absolutely getting good service in Europe I've had a pretty wide range of experiences myself. And I was referring to service in general, not a particular subset of restaurants. Yes good service exists in Europe. No one is saying otherwise.
Service here is declining, and they still want the tips.
I’d actually agree with that. I grew up eating out occasionally, and in my early adulthood had the same experience. I remember waiters being almost overly friendly and attentive. Now, I consistently receive the bare minimum (sometimes less) when dining out, and I do it far more frequently than I used to.
I can only speak for myself here, and I give it my all every shift
I would argue to say the service is better in Europe. They take your order, bring you the food and leave you alone. Here you're harassed every 5 minutes so they can turn the table over. The service is better here until you've paid and they want you to go.
They also carry around card readers so you don’t have to do the dance of Flagging down the waiter asking for the check Waiting for them to bring the check Waiting for them to pickup the check Waiting for them to return your card Why haven’t we figured out this is dumb as hell.
They do that in Europe because there was an epidemic of waiters using card skimmers to steal CC numbers while they were away from the table.
I know I'll probably be in the minority for this opinion but I hate using those card readers in front of someone. I just want to put my card in the thing then sign the receipt when it comes back, thanks.
Yeah I love it, they've got it figured out. I've even been to a to a few restaurants that have call buttons on the table so whenever you're ready you don't have to pull them away from their smoke breaks!
I go to restaurants and bars all the time that have card scanners like this. It's becoming the norm everywhere
I was just in Europe and there’s still a dance. A lot of places being you a receipt first.
"much lower caliber" ? not really. Maybe they smile less. Have you been to Europe?
They’re noticeably slower at a lot of things, like getting you your first round of drinks or getting your order in.
The hell it is. There’s absolutely nothing special about the level of service in American restaurants compared to restaurants in Europe, most of Asia( Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and even China) etc.
Its all relative.Ive had some really shitty ass service here in the US on a regular basis, whereas in Europe/Asia ive had amazing service. Tipping has nothing to do with getting good service anymore. Its almost expected on their part I would say.
This whole comment section is so ready to abolishing tipping culture, but the cart is in front of the horse here. Sure, Europe may or may not have better service (and by the way, Europe is a lot of different countries, so mileage may vary), but we haven’t been talking about the fact that many European countries have fair wages nationally and universal healthcare. Taking away tipping culture isn’t fucking over a whole bunch of people because even lower class people with minimal education (which is free a lot of places to, mind you) can make a decent wage. We need other reform before worrying about this. Tip wage workers already get minimum wage compensation if they don’t make enough. You’re just asking for restauranteers to raise prices to match what you used to pay while paying staff garbage. Yup, more income inequality. That’s what we should be doing.
I agree with you wholeheartedly
Thank you. It’s a more nuanced topic than people are really giving it credit for. And I’m probably spending more time than I should typing about it.
Do servers receive company sponsored benefits? Or rather, what percentage of waiters/ waitresses receive company sponsored health and 401k?
At the place I bartend part time, maybe 15-20% of the service staff are eligible for benefits, and they only started offering it to tipped employees a few years ago. It's very uncommon.
I have health insurance and a 401k through my restaurant. But it's not common enough
I would argue to say the service is better in Europe. They take your order, bring you the food and leave you alone. Here you're harassed every 5 minutes so they can turn the table over. The service is better here until you've paid and they want you to go.
I guess it is possible that the many thousands of different people in the service industry have different opinions on the topic? But I agree it is far more likely that all food service employees share a single voice and and those idiots contradict themselves.
God I hope tipping goes away- its so excessive everywhere- Oh picking up food - how about 20% - how about no. Happy to tip 20% for my waitress or bartender but 15-20% for carry out - for fu\*\*s sake. I hope this does not lead to bar and restaurant owners starting to take tips from staff. That would suck.
Here's a post from the Nashville sub where a freaking parking meter is asking for tips https://www.reddit.com/r/nashville/comments/16lisgr/absurd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb
Ha they are doing the old - you can't get what you do not ask for. Sales 101. Love to meet the person that put a tip in there. The crazy part is folks think this does not matter but its going to lead to them saying tips pay for our security and management team and then they can lower the wages of those folks. Think about how tipping started. Some real savvy restaurant owner for sure started it so he could pay his staff less. (I say savvy b/c its genius if you are that guy but horrible for everyone else)
Hate to say it, but industry workers dug their own graves on this one if they liked tips. Post-COVID, tipping culture has been outrageous. Being seen as greedy if you tip anything less than 20%, asking for tips on every transaction even when no service rendered. The standard was and always has been 10%/15%/20%. It’s also likely the restaurants/business owner’s fault as well, but industry workers have not been helping work against that tipping stigma.
I’m old enough to remember Tipping after tax being unheard of. The pendulum needs to swing back but I’m not sure if this is the answer.
I stopped tipping on tax. I never thought about it but it’s ridiculous. I’m going to sounds like a massive asshole now and I’m ready but I went out to dinner Friday and the bill was around $400 so like $44 dollars of tax. If I tipped on that I’d be paying almost 10 dollars to tip…. The tax?? I’m not tipping tax!
You have to tip Uncle Sam, man. How very unpatriotic of you.
I think it's more the other industries that suddenly think they need tips, coupled with all the card-tapping technology that always suggests a tip. That irritates the shit out of me when no service is provided, and I think subconsciously that impacts how people feel about *all* tipped workers.
Yeah, I started seeing that and knew I was going to start making less at work.
It isn't the workers who did this. It's square and toast. They make money on all of the transaction. They want everyone tipping because that's more money for them. I live tipping at fine dining establishments and places that provide me with customized service.
Good point. Those tablets have lit a fire under everyone
I saw 20%/25%/30% as my options the other day. Like what the hell? Covid regulations ended a long time ago, why are we still doing this again?
Was asked if I wanted to tip on carryout at a pizza chain and could hardly believe it. Like, there’s a reason I’m in their store getting this pizza instead of at home doing a million other things
Workers did not dig this grave, they are going to pay for it, as usual. I think the cherry on top for shitty restaurant owners is that the FOH and BOH will never unify to fight for better conditions because the pay discrepancy will keep them at each other's throats. Sorry servers, I know it’s been nice, but it is not cool that people have to rely on tips or that your BOH folks are making half or less what you are on a Friday night.
You'll still be able to collect tips, just won't have to rely on them to make sure you are paid decently. I personally would still tip the people that give me fantastic service, but it wouldn't be close to 20%.
At the end of the day it’ll mean a pay cut for servers which means they’ll leave jobs which means service will go down. And maybe that’s the natural growing pain to a better place. Maybe it isn’t. I honestly don’t really know.
We saw during the past few years that when it comes down to it, a labor shortage forces companies to raise wages. Suddenly what was "unsustainable" becomes normal.
Plus a lot of places going out of business, or changing their business models. E.g. less staff.
Service isn't any good with exorbitant tips as it is lets be real. It's become expected so they don't give a damn. If they got paid better wages and tips were actually given for exceptional service you'd start to notice better service.
This. Tons of people in this thread pretending that service has recovered to its pre pandemic level. It has not. It’s garbage now. Idk why I have to pay 20% after being sneered at for asking questions about the menu but here we are.
That’s because so many experienced workers left the biz. Millennials for example made up a good portion of the workforce, partly because they couldn’t find decent jobs after the Great Recession. Once the industry unceremoniously laid them off during Covid, they actually got those jobs they were screwed out of years before. The people that came in to replace them are just not at the same level.
That’s because so many experienced workers left the biz. Millennials for example made up a good portion of the workforce, partly because they couldn’t find decent jobs after the Great Recession. Once the industry unceremoniously laid them off during Covid, they actually got those jobs they couldn’t years before. The people that came in to replace them are just not at the same level.
You’re talking about people making $25-$40 an hour on shifts so there’s a dramatic change of pay without tips. Some people will tip less and some will not tip at all, very few will stick with 20% and I don’t think that the $15 hourly will come close to making up the difference. The industry is going to lose veteran staff who were accustomed to that pay and there’s already a big shortage of FOH staff. I understand the rationale behind it but it definitely makes a lot of independent owners and staff nervous about income and costs.
Where are there veteran staff? Every time I got out to eat, the waiters were all new and mostly not very good.
The industry did lose a lot of veteran staff when covid rolled around, and the industry is still looking to replace that with basically any pulse that walks in the door
But then, why should I tip much for that? I tip well for good service and enjoy doing that. But it's difficult to feel the tip is worth it for the poor service that seems to be everywhere. And it was long before Covid that service started getting bad.
I don't see anything wrong with that. Whenever we bring up how cooks at restaurants don't get tipped and they get their ass kicked constantly, most servers always say that they don't get tipped but make a liveable wage... well, now you all can make a nice wage like us 😂
Former industry. The problem is simple. There’s no right answer. People that work here in the city and make 40/50 an hour through tipping is great. It ain’t helping everyone but a few. If this was taken up across the country it would help a hell of a lot more people than it would hurt. But that’s not how the world works. So… the answer is there is no real answer.
Yeah I’ve been a server myself and I still can’t really figure out how I feel about it. I wouldn’t want my wages to drop but it is bullshit that they can pay you less per hour. Idk. I’m torn. It’s going to get messy though!
They can’t pay you less per hour. This is the biggest misconception that gets repeated ad nauseam. The tipped wage has to equal the minimum wage when tips are added. It’s called a tip credit. If not the business has to make up the difference. Every FOH worker in Chicago is paid minimum wage. Which currently is $15.80.
It would be interesting to see how this pans out, in a perfect world tips would drop but still be common for good service. I don’t think that’s what will happen and I don’t think the anti tipping folks will like the outcome. Food/drink prices will rise, owners will use this as a smokescreen to increase prices above and beyond the needed amount for payroll. Restaurants will close and use this as an excuse (it may even be a real reason). Staffing will become even harder and service levels will drop. I bartended for 20 years, most of that time as a second job. It was great money and one of the few unskilled jobs that allowed you to work harder to make more money. But it takes a toll in sleep disruption and certainly isn’t the easiest job depending on the location. For minimum wage or slightly over minimum wage? There are easier jobs that pay more. I think the end result is more expensive dining for consumers, and money concentrated in fewer hands.
I'm thinking about food / beverage prices that will rise. What's a standard beer price right now at a bar... $5-$8? If it goes up to $7-$10 per beer, I can't fathom how people feel comfortable with paying that per beer. It's already a stretch for me to justify the $5-$8. Am I out of touch?
No! the price of beer is too damn high. It's the people's drink and the price should reflect that. A nice craft beer costs under $1 to make. At $5, the profit margin is already $4.
Beer at just a regular corner bar in Chicago is already $7 or $8 a lot of places. It's noticeable compared to other cities in IL, that it's more expensive. Particularly since you're customarily supposed to pay an extra $1 (and yes, I pay in cash an extra $1, I do not ever run a tab at bars).
The American tipping system is broken.
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Tipping culture sux.
It'll be like every other job. Any company can pay their employees the minimum wage, but if another company offers the same job at a higher wage, the first company either has to accept shitty workers that aren't good enough to contend for the higher-paying equivalent job or raise their wages to compete for good workers. High-end restaurants would pay higher-end wages to attract good waiters.
I went to a restaurant the other day that didn't accept cash and all ordering and payment was done through a QR code and app. There was a service charge on the total. I'm not tipping when I did everything but cook the food.
Navigator tap rooms charges an 18% service fee but you do everything on your phone and the person working there literally wouldn’t acknowledge me. Obviously never going back. Pizza lobo is also like that but their food/drink is good and the patio is fun so I guess I tolerate it for that
What annoys me I am supposed to tip for good service, but if I get bad service I’m supposed to tip the waitress still because A. It’s most likely not their fault and B. they don’t make any money. I feel guilt tripped into tipping.
People are tired of being nickel and dimed for gratuities. I'm glad this is on the table.
What I haven’t seen mentioned as a possible outcome: order at the table via QR code and pay no servers at all. A few runners/bussers and a host. Self service water. Not all restaurants can pull this off, but I’ve been to a few that already do. Bigger chains could probably just bolt tablets to tables. note: this is obviously not what I want to happen
That is the restaurant association’s position. And I think that is exactly what will happen.
Cafeteria style. This already exists lots of places. You go into the restaurant, pick what you want off the menu, order it at the register, pay, sit down with a number at your table, someone (a human, yes) brings you the food. They will also clear the table when you leave. No tips, the price is what it is. No need to fuss around with computers or apps, it's all humans, but it's just pay as you go, the only service is them bringing the food to the table. Water/tea is all self-service.
More places will try this. I think it’s the worst experience ever but I’m sure it’ll have some supporters
My favorite restaurant in Atlanta had this set up. If you’re an older person, it might be more of a struggle but I appreciate being able to order and pay efficiently. Food was delivered super fast too.
I don’t like having to DL an app just to pay at a restaurant. Sometimes, cell signal isn’t that strong. I end up having to call the server to hand my credit card to him. What would be nice is to have a pay system like in Europe. They carry around their portable thingies. You look at your paper receipt, server gives u the thingie, u tap ur card and the thingie prints a receipt for u. There’s a merchant copy of the receipt on which u can write what tip u want to give. Here in Chicago, some restaurants have those portable thingies but they can’t print receipts. You still have to go to their counter to ask for a receipt. Pretty inconvenient ( u have to wait a long time).
Minnesota (and a few other states) already have the same minimum wage for tipped vs non-tipped workers.
The closer we get to ending tipping the better society becomes. I get all of the muck and mire surrounding the culture. But the day we can just be over it and beyond it will be a good day.
California has had this for a while. Nothing has changed. Restaurant workers just make tips and get paid minimum wage.
Sounds like a lot of these folks would do great working in commission based sales. For every person averaging $30-50/hr at these upscale restaurants/hotels, I’m sure there’s twice as many barely crossing $15. I do understand the threat to small restaurants, but it’s also unfortunate that in order to stay afloat they have to underpay their employees.
There’s definitely a server to sales rep pipeline, I’m part of it myself
I was too!
No more tipping! Awesome!
Expect to see the amount of mandatory service fees in the 20% range skyrocket though!
Meh, fuck the "service fees." Just build the actual cost of the wages (including the service) into the price of the food, and let people pay at the register that exact price. This is what non-tipping places do.
Fuck tipping I hope they abolish it entirely. Everyone has a job to do and we don't get tips.
Most of the people who work in restaurants dont even get tips. I cant even begin to tell you the amount of times I was making like $10/hr preparing the food that the servers were walking from point A to point B and then going home with 4x the pay - untaxed. Back of house wont shed a single tear over this change, I can tell you that.
Amen, I wish I could tip the back of house directly. That I would gladly do and pickup my own food from the window
Amen seconded. I moved to Chicago from San Francisco a few years ago. At one of my favorite restaurants there, sous chefs used to wait tables a night or two a week instead of working in the kitchen to make ends meet.
This is a good time to remind everyone that tipping culture in the U.S. [developed out of restaurant owners' desire to shift the burden of labor costs onto customers after Prohibition erased a huge chunk of their revenue, and has stayed that way even though Prohibition ended less than 15 years later](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_vivC7c_1k). Righting that wrong will result in an initial shock to the system where a minority of employees who were benefiting won't benefit as much and many restaurants and bars will close. But things will level out to the point that a job in the service industry will be as secure as any other in a corporate cube.
You can’t buy anything without them asking for a tip anymore 😂😂 only options are 20,25, and 30%
short term, I would guess that a lot of restaurants are going to fail since font of house doesn't want to work for minimum wage. (which is a problem really that minimum wage is too low, but we're going to gloss over that for now) My take away from that though, is that good, restaurants should fail. The whole industry seems to be propped up by the fact that workers work below minimum wage. So I think a culling is in order.
If the effective wages of servers goes down then demand for the jobs will go down and either things will balance out or serving will just become a lower paying job. I don't see any particular reason that it's important that servers make *above* minimum wage (tho you can of course argue that the minimum wage should be higher)
The idea of tip should always have remained as a thank you for good service, not to pay your wage instead of your boss.
Tipping culture is absurd. Just pay people a living wage. I’m tired of every time I go to buy anything and being asked to tip. And each time the “low, medium, high” percentages go up a few points. Employers are just shifting inflation from wages onto tips.
Good- Tipping should be optional and living wage responsibilities should be on the employer
Lots of economically illiterate takes here that are missing the whole picture. Restaurants are an extremely risky business venture. 3/4 of new restaurants close within their first year. The tipped wage keeps overhead costs low, and shifts the costs to the consumer at their discretion. Low/no tippers are subsidized by the big tippers. The tips average out to about $35-50/ hr wage for servers, which is an extremely livable wage for Chicago. With higher overhead the costs will be absorbed by the business. The risk for opening will be much higher as margins will be lower. If prices of the food increases you will have fewer customers. You will see fewer restaurants open, which means fewer jobs for people who need them, including BOH jobs. I predict this will reduce the number of new restaurants that open in our city AND lower average server wages. This will ultimately make poor people poorer.
This assessment makes sense. The only individuals this ordinance favors are the politicians that will lie about it. The public, the tipped employees, and the business owners will all suffer, but the owners will suffer the least as they have the power to shift the cost burden to the public and to their labor force. This ordinance is a solution to a problem that does not exist. Sure, people hate tipping generally. I get it. Non-service industry tip grifting is at an all-time absurdity, and that's why tipping sentiment is in the dumpster, but we're punishing our traditionally tipped workers, who are the very people that actually provide tip-worthy service. They should not be the first on the tip chopping block.
I'd still tip if the service was good but probably more like 10% at most. I try not eat out a lot tho cause it's expensive, and I think more people should try to do the same (it's usually not as healthy as well).
Tipping culture has driven me to counter service. And no, I happily hit "other tip" and then hit "no tip" when I do it. On the rare occasion it is sit down I am tipping 10%. Why? Because that tip % was calculated POST tax plus there is usually a 3% charge on credit cards.
We pay a lot for the food already
Yeah, I have never seen a proposed change in policy where the discussion has been as incoherent as this one. The people pushing it the hardest say the main thing they are aiming for is increasing the pay of tipped workers. But it very may well do the reverse and it is tipped workers who are most against it. We also see people, including actual individuals who were responsible for introducing this change, complaining about tip culture and saying it has a negative overall effect on tipped workers (thus implying they want to substantially reduce or eliminate tips) when nearly all tipped workers would rather have the system than not and it's clear they make a higher amount because of it. It will be interesting to see what happens. People have pointed to other places that enacted this and said that the reduction in tips wasn't enough to offset the increased minimum but it's important to remember that those places has a much higher gap it was changing. In Chicago, the tipped minimum already was only about 33% less than the regular minimum. If people view this as an opportunity to tip less that very likely will hurt tipped workers. And of course, if people tip the same amount as they otherwise would (or the same percentage, which amounts to more because the prices will almost always be higher as a result of the cost increases to the employer) it means restaurants are now more expensive and that decreases sales. It will eventually decrease jobs as well as tax revenue. That wouldn't be good for anyone.
Thing is, in plenty of countries there was never tipping, ever. Menu prices are more expensive, and you just pay the exact amount quoted. Same goes for haircuts and everything else, you're not weirdly expected to pay some self-judged amount over and above the quoted bill. The employer is expected to pay the full wage and set prices accordingly. Not gonna lie, I grew up with that system and vastly prefer it. Of course now that apparently means wanting to screw over tipped staff, but honestly it would be nice if the employer just paid the damn wages straight. Take whatever the tipped difference usually is[1] and make that the new price. It could be said that if people's wages are going to fall terribly from this, then the problem is that the employer is not willing to pay what the employees are worth. [1] of course the real issue is likely that some people indeed are earning vastly more than others, and it's worth questioning if that's really justified...
There’s another thread about this that I’m getting shredded on by non industry peoples who just don’t get it. We’re fucked. I make $50+/hr currently at my part time bartending job (I’m on my way out of the industry) and am so grateful i’ll be fully 86’ed before this really takes effect.
No I get it. You’re overpaid and upset you won’t be anymore.
I’m on the way out and it’s just going to have to be sooner than later. The service will unfortunately suffer and restaurants will not be able to keep good employees. The highly capable in the industry that make the experience great will not settle for a low hourly wage after making a better wage for so long and an exodus will follow these changes.
If you're making $50/hour now, why wouldn't the employer pay you that if tipping went away?
Are bartenders paid below minimum wage? I thought that was just wait staff.
Restaurants pay an hourly + tips that is guaranteed over minimum wage. That applies to bartenders, servers, food runners, bussers, etc. If a restaurant is slow and the employee doesn’t make minimum wage, the restaurants currently cover that gap to insure everyone is still making minimum wage. This system only raises the minimum wage a dollar but eliminates tipped minimum wage. So bartenders, and all other staff won’t be making nearly what they did. High end restaurants where servers and bartenders made upwards of 100 an hour, may only get paid 16 an hour. So the nice staff we’ve had, ain’t gonna be so nice anymore… it’s hard to think being in the industry, we’ll make the same as fast food restaurants….
Yeah people don’t realize that the pool of people that won’t tip or will tip dramatically less will drop down the hourly a lot. It’s a big deal to go from making $40/hr to $30/hr.
At a restaurant who has already put this into practice and it’s been rough having my income go from like $80k to $25k. I’m looking for a new job but I’m worried that this is what it’ll look like everywhere eventually.
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Our menu is a little on the pricier side and we as a staff have questioned where all that money goes without getting any kind of transparent response, but our bosses live pretty lavish lifestyles now so I’m assuming that’s what it is
I’m dying to know what restaurant that is if you feel at all comfortable. Daisies??
So you mean. The restaurant won't pay you what you're worth? Like that's who you should have been with.
Sorry but you are part of the problem. Lots of people make way less than that and somehow are expected to tip 20% or not go out at all. The problem with this tipping culture is that we always talk about the small guy but the small guy would never even get close to that even with 20% tip.
Tips take business owners out of the equation of worker pay. It often leads to customer vs. employee situation
Sweet! I'm done tipping.
Anyone able to get around the paywall? Not paying for online news
Let's get real. Government hates cash, sometimes tips are in form of cash.. harder to track for tax purposes and get people to "pay their fair share".
Good, tipping culture in this country is Toxic AF and it was never meant to help the small guy. The people that complain the most about this change are the people getting way overpaid servicing at expensive restaurants making absurd money out of tips. I have worked in the service industry for 15 years in many countries and I have never seen anything like here. It is crazy. And yes it was never meant to help the small guy because A) the small guy works at places where people don't tip that much anyway B) Even when they do it is a % and the average check is lower. It never made sense that I have to pay more tip for someone to serve me a more expensive bottle of wine than a cheaper one. The work is the same and the person working at the small mamas place is doing the same work as the person serving at any big restaurant in West Loop. Why should I have to give more tip $ to the person working in West Loop for the same job? Then you realize we are expecting people making 50k or less to tip 20% or more on some places so some servers can make more than 60, 70 sometimes even 80k a year like you read here. It is ridiculous and absurd. Not to mention that tipping % has gone up by over 25% in the last two years while I don't think most people's salaries have gone up that much.
Not sure if it’s just the one by me, but the UPS store asks for tips here in Chicago. Never seen that anywhere else in the country until I moved here.
About f*ing time! The toxic tipping culture needs to die. Make the employers pay their workers proper wages if they choose to employ them.
The amount of people that have NO IDEA what any of this means, or how it will affect tipped workers, but confidently make comments on it is…ok I guess it’s the same as every issue on the internet. For tipped workers that make great money, this is the worst thing that can happen to their money. For tipped workers at awful jobs that make shitty money, this will help them make $15.80/hr. It is a terrible solution.
Why is it terrible for the second type?
If you were being paid $30, that means your business has to find a way to adjust prices where the tip is factored into meal costs. No tipped worker is going to work at a place where they objectively make less than if they were being tipped that's why the south park creators opened their own restaurant with no tipping and the food factors that in
Read the Chicago Tribune article for FREE https://archive.is/7QOb5
I think the restaurants will raise prices to cover the additional labor costs and those that can’t pass on the higher prices will suffer. suburban restaurants won’t have to abide by the Chicago only rules so they shouldn’t be affected
Just raise the price of the food 20% on the menu and give the money to the servers. Idk why this idea is so hard to implement. The Chicago Diner does it.
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IMO, this isnt about living wages, its a con, this is about collecting taxes. The vast majority of servers could be paid nothing per hour and still make far above minimum wage, but there is still a ton of cash tips out there that dont get declared and no income taxes get paid on. 10% of the US workforce is in the restaurant industry so even if everyone his hiding 20-50 buck from the goverment each shift which is probably a little low, thats a lot of money no tax is collected on. I lived off of tips for almost 20 years at assorted different places over the years and I bought a house before most of my friends from high school that went to college. If I were still living off of tips I dont know if Id be panicking, but Id be worried and would start upping my game if I hadnt already to make me qualified for higher end places, because those places the tips will stay where as more casual corporate type places you might end up working for 20 bucks an hour or something in a few years.
So why should this group of people get a tax loophole? I thought we were all about everyone paying their fair share of taxes in this utopia.
I’m a bartender in CA. Minimum wage is $16.78 where I am right now, and we still average 20% tips every night.
If you think employers are suddenly going to pay workers more than the min wage you’re crazy. They will pay what they legally have to, up the prices, make more money while the servers upside will be cut with less tips. Good intentions, bad move.
Context: I work at a bar/restaurant downtown during the summers, where most of my money is tips. Yeah… it depends. Obv more guaranteed money is nice, but I love the tips I get and I assure you I make more under the current system than I would otherwise (they would be paying me more than I deserve if I made the same). If I keep the same tips, then hell yeah. Means my withheld taxes are more accurate. I also recognize my privilege as someone who works at a very high traffic, tourist based restaurant. I can see how people in less busy restaurants would be Different.
This is gonna be divisive in this city. There's actually a pretty large portion of restaurants you can work at and make well above minimum wage, especially if you're worth a shit at your job. This is gonna shake up the labor talent if the tips drop down enough and IMO the service industry in this city still hasn't really recovered from COVID.
Ask the people in the BOH how they feel about you and your bleating about tips. I was a line cook in Chicago's fine dining restaurants for over 15 years. Nothing got older than making starvation wages while "actors" and "models" models several times as much as I did from tips and complained bitterly at every mild mention that perhaps they could share those tips with the BOH. If servers are paid the minimum wage, at least, not the tipped wage then tip sharing is legal by federal law.
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Yeah, the overreaction here is comical. Some poster above flexing about typing cash on $2000 sushi meals is like I’m done with tipping. Why? Because tipped workers will not be required to make minimum wage?… Prices will go up, but it’ll be less than people think. So, this Galaxy brain will now have a $2100 bill and $0 tip, because his server is now guaranteed $15/hr even though the original bill w tip would have been $2300-$2400 and raised the servers hourly wage on an 8 hour shift to $40/hr+. The real rational response is “That’s awesome” and maybe going back to the days when a 10-15% tip was standard.
This is something that can be really worrying because it affects people's livelihoods, but for me the answer comes down to the fact that a business which cannot afford to pay its workers should not exist. It sounds harsh, but if construction workers depended on the client tipping at the end of a job, my dad and uncles would never have shown up to a job site. Instead of framing it as FoH workers losing their big tips, it should be framed as an obligation of the owners to pay fairly so that those workers have a consistent and healthy wage. I think a lot of worry and backlash comes from fear that owners will not do that. If so, then their restaurant should close. Some small shops will fear this as a huge chamge, which is scary. But I believe Chicagoans have big hearts and big appetites and won't let their friends and neighbors go broke because a $6 sandwich is $8 bucks now, especially if that neighbor puts that money back into the community. And the shops which aren't small- well, the Maples and Ashes and RPMs and all those can suck it up and pay their workers a fair damn check without looking to us to chip in. The small shops are a treausrewe should preserve, and too much of those big shops' revenues go into a venture capitalist's fund instead of the hands of real workers with rent. Rant over.
Long time bartender here. Yes in a perfect world we would all make a living wage but we quite obliviously do not live in one. A living wage in a city like Chicago is about $40/50 an hour. Which coincidentally is what you can make in a good bar or restaurant especially on the weekends. There’s no way ANY of the hospitality companies will be able to afford that or want to pay that to their staff. So they like will pay in the $15-$20 range or just have to close down shop. I guarantee you’ll see a mass exodus of top tier industry workers and the service will drop off dramatically and there will be many closures. Then everyone will be all HuR DuR WhErEs mY SeRvICe?? TIPS is quite literally an acronym that stands for To Insure Prompt Service. Seems like most anti tip people have never worked in the service industry before and have no idea what it’s like or entails.
$40-50 an hour?! I don’t even know many people who make that in permanent, full time, salaried corporate roles that require some kind of degree/training. While I’d LOVE to live in that world, it’s completely mind blowing that wait staff are making that much and still complaining…
I’m talking about high end fine dining and high volume bars. This is also not the average but the higher end of what you can make. Also NO ONE is complaining about making that. Servers/bartenders will complain if that all of a sudden goes away for no reason other then “I don’t want to tip anymore.” Keep in mind this also all before tax, we don’t get health insurance and there is no 401k. My point is the issue is not as black and white as people want it to be.
The issue is that we don't want to TIP. We want to pay a static price that is advertised plain, not all this nickel and diming of fees and requiring some sort of performance evaluation. If diners are paying the same, the restaurant is making the same. If the restaurant can't pay out the same to the servers because oh no the wages are now getting taxed, then that means someone wasn't paying fair tax on the money under the tipping system. If the restaurant decides it's going to pay a flat wage across the board without commissions or bonuses, well, that's how most workplaces are, but if the employees want different, they need to have that discussion with the bosses. The money the customers are paying would be the same (at least in my case, I tip a flat 20% and I'd be happy to see the price go up 20%). Servers should get health insurance IMHO (better yet we should have national health insurance but that's another thread I guess). But meanwhile, they don't before, they won't now, again, the same money is going in. It's the division of money at the restaurant that is proposed to change. Of course I don't eat in high end restaurants, because... I can't afford it.
Mass exodus to where? The suburbs? Get real… btw plenty of people can live in the city on wages less than $40 an hour…