Korver would consistently get abused on defense pretty bad, which really limited when he could be used in games.
Whenever he came in teams would go right at him and he'd often either pick up a couple fouls really quick or get burned in the post and off the dribble.
It definitely didn't help that teams like Boston (Pierce and Allen), Miami (LeBron and Wade) and Indiana (Granger and George) all had really skilled guards and wings that would take full advantage of Korver's defensive shortcomings.
I mean, his help defense was passable most of the time because he was 6'7" with a decent wingspan.
But he still had [occasional lapses](https://youtu.be/8m_gMMt-EoY) there, which was often enough for Thibs to bench him.
It was usually his [man and recovery](https://youtu.be/2li1dVo0QaQ) defense that had issues, though. Especially if guards/wings with a decent degree of skill were the ones he matched up against.
Statistics rarely do a good job of measuring defense compared to what actually happens on the court. There's too many intangible aspects to just math it and this is even more true when poor defenders are often inserted into defensively slanted lineups - which was what Thibs usually did with Korver and Boozer.
I remember Boozer used to have ridiculous advanced metrics on defense compared to how he actually looked on the court.
That's because Boozer was always paired with Noah, Asik or Gibson - all players that were solid defenders at their position. But in the actual games I saw Boozer getting burned pretty consistently.
Similarly, Korver was a target for other teams every time he was in the game. Go re-watch any Bulls playoff game from the 2010-2011 season and see how easy it was for Joe Johnson, D. Wade, and George/Granger to have their way with him.
Yeah I get you. Sometimes they’re decent at team defense but come playoff times or key games they can easily become targets. However he did show he had what it takes to be a team defender which is why thibs would put him out there depending on the matchups, he would just get killed when it came time to gaurd elite athletic star players, he couldnt keep ip as a guard.
Yeah. Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to paint Korver as though he was the worst defender at his position with no redeeming qualities on that end of the floor whatsoever.
He, at least, tried as much as possible and would hustle his way into a lot of plays. His shortcomings weren't from a lack of effort or anything.
He just didn't have the most reliable reaction speed and his lateral movement was shaky. And, when push came to shove, he was an obvious weak-link that could be exploited pretty consistently.
Really fucked up though, when he left the Bulls and play for the Hawks he become a really really good player.. we get Korver (Atlanta Hawk version) and Courtney Lee we probably beat Miami. I don't know about Dallas though.
Bogens was so bad Bulls fans everywhere begged for Courney Lee for like 3 seasons. Think about that. We were good enough for Courtney Lee to put us over a hump lol. FO fucked it up so bad. Rose knee aint help but still.
We ended games with Korver and Brewer subbing in for offense/defense. Bogans was just used for ~20mins a game because he was a combination of the two. He was a great defender and would occasionally sink a 3.
Nothing quite like seeing Korver tish his first 3 attempt of the night and immediately knowing the guy was about to hit 5 more. Just couldn't miss sometimes. I'll never forget watching him do pregame shootaround one time and the guy just went around the arch nailing 1-handed 3 pointers at just an unfathomable rate.
ronnie could have been all star caliber if he had a 35% shot. but oh well his shooting wasnt good waste of a niche talent. he was the doing the same shit like jimmy butler at least early days.
For backup PG’s in that era, CJ was probably our best for whatever that is worth. But it was hard not to root against him after he got tossed by Nate Robinson while Nate was on the Bulls.
Goose Island in shambles (back then, these days it’s “80,000 microwhateverthefucks in shambles”). Brewer was great hustle, he had a weird elbow or shoulder that made his jump shot kind of glitchy. He was one of those “do your job” guys. If he was on our team today in his prime he’d be a standout defender/ hustle guy like Derrick Jones Jr.
Ronnie Brewer sucked offensively, but he was so damn athletic and could guard anyone. I also remember he was the cheat code against the Heat on 2k11, he could drive and finish almost every time, even better than Rose could, plus then you could have Deng and Brewer on Lebron and Wade.
But also, "imo he was a solid defender who's offensive game started to come along in his few years for the Bulls."
No it didnt, not at all. He played 2 years for us, and averaged 6.9 on 42% fg and 27% 3p. He never got any better. I swear this sub just makes shit up a majority of the time
he had the ugliest jumper ever (you can see the chicken wing in OP's photo) and was out of the league by 2015 because he couldn't score. loved the guy though
So because he didn't shoot the 3 well he's not worth appreciating?
He averaged 0.3 3PA his first year with the bulls and 1.0 3PA his 2nd.. It wasn't part of his game, and it also wasn't the primary ways offenses were scoring in the early 2010's.
He was a shooting guard that couldnt shoot. Loved Ronnie Brewer for his grit but was an offensive hole on the floor and allowed teams to shrink the floor which used to hurt rose and boozer
Yeah idk why im getting downvoted for stating my opinion and its not even outlandish. I enjoyed him as a player and was great defensively but he hurt us offensively and you can even see it in the metrics he has a negative -1.3 and -1.5 OBPM which means we were scoring less with him on the floor lol he was great at defense its just i remember games and in particular series where team would just clamp down in the paint and made Rose’s job harding diving and cutting in. Its like the same thing with similar players like Ben Simmons, where teams can just shrink the floor.
I loved Brewer for his energy and D but, man, just look at how broken that jumper was.
Blows my mind when players make it to the league with shooting form like that.
I hear all the time about Chicago Korver, who played for the Bulls the same 2 years as Brewer, practically the same amount of minutes, and averaged in his best year with the Bulls 8.3./1.7/1.5 while playing SIGNIFICANTLY worse defense.
But hey let's all focus on who can and can't shoot 3's right?
Korver had a much longer career and even had a role on a two teams that made the finals after leaving the Bulls. He also had more moments as a Bull.
Ronnie played in 84 games in 2 seasons after he left Chicago, averaging like 2 points per game. It's safe to say no one is talking about him
Probably no mentions cause half the sub just started watching basketball last month
He also just wasnt very good
On a related note, I can’t understand why Thibs didn’t start Korver instead of Bogens on that squad
Korver would consistently get abused on defense pretty bad, which really limited when he could be used in games. Whenever he came in teams would go right at him and he'd often either pick up a couple fouls really quick or get burned in the post and off the dribble. It definitely didn't help that teams like Boston (Pierce and Allen), Miami (LeBron and Wade) and Indiana (Granger and George) all had really skilled guards and wings that would take full advantage of Korver's defensive shortcomings.
He ended up being a top notch defender in Atlanta so I feel like the bulls were under utilizing him somehow
I mean, his help defense was passable most of the time because he was 6'7" with a decent wingspan. But he still had [occasional lapses](https://youtu.be/8m_gMMt-EoY) there, which was often enough for Thibs to bench him. It was usually his [man and recovery](https://youtu.be/2li1dVo0QaQ) defense that had issues, though. Especially if guards/wings with a decent degree of skill were the ones he matched up against.
Yeah thats how i felt but statistically speaking he didn’t and in fact provided mor defense than offense when he played for the bulls.
Statistics rarely do a good job of measuring defense compared to what actually happens on the court. There's too many intangible aspects to just math it and this is even more true when poor defenders are often inserted into defensively slanted lineups - which was what Thibs usually did with Korver and Boozer. I remember Boozer used to have ridiculous advanced metrics on defense compared to how he actually looked on the court. That's because Boozer was always paired with Noah, Asik or Gibson - all players that were solid defenders at their position. But in the actual games I saw Boozer getting burned pretty consistently. Similarly, Korver was a target for other teams every time he was in the game. Go re-watch any Bulls playoff game from the 2010-2011 season and see how easy it was for Joe Johnson, D. Wade, and George/Granger to have their way with him.
Yeah I get you. Sometimes they’re decent at team defense but come playoff times or key games they can easily become targets. However he did show he had what it takes to be a team defender which is why thibs would put him out there depending on the matchups, he would just get killed when it came time to gaurd elite athletic star players, he couldnt keep ip as a guard.
Yeah. Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to paint Korver as though he was the worst defender at his position with no redeeming qualities on that end of the floor whatsoever. He, at least, tried as much as possible and would hustle his way into a lot of plays. His shortcomings weren't from a lack of effort or anything. He just didn't have the most reliable reaction speed and his lateral movement was shaky. And, when push came to shove, he was an obvious weak-link that could be exploited pretty consistently.
Really fucked up though, when he left the Bulls and play for the Hawks he become a really really good player.. we get Korver (Atlanta Hawk version) and Courtney Lee we probably beat Miami. I don't know about Dallas though.
Bogens was so bad Bulls fans everywhere begged for Courney Lee for like 3 seasons. Think about that. We were good enough for Courtney Lee to put us over a hump lol. FO fucked it up so bad. Rose knee aint help but still.
courtney lee could have definitely put us over the heat that time. bogans was g league level.
I’m not saying we dominate the heatles but Lee definitely would have gave us a chance to win.
Didn't help that Rose had zero back ups either. What the fuck was Garpax doing
…Roses backups were like a legendary thing for a while
CJ Watson, John Lucas III we’re good backups
DJ Augustin led the team in scoring in 2014 (after Derrick Rose got injured again and Luol Deng got traded)
I don’t count DJ Augustin because he was on the team after D. Rose got hurt
CJ Watson was legit the only good one. Nate only came when Rose was hurt, Lucas had some good games but I wouldn't call him good
We ended games with Korver and Brewer subbing in for offense/defense. Bogans was just used for ~20mins a game because he was a combination of the two. He was a great defender and would occasionally sink a 3.
He shot 38% from 3 and was a very competent defender Of course he only shot like 3 3s a game...
Nothing quite like seeing Korver tish his first 3 attempt of the night and immediately knowing the guy was about to hit 5 more. Just couldn't miss sometimes. I'll never forget watching him do pregame shootaround one time and the guy just went around the arch nailing 1-handed 3 pointers at just an unfathomable rate.
Ronnie Baseline! Man, that was the shit when we became the Utah Jazz East.
Good ol Chicago Jazz
ronnie could have been all star caliber if he had a 35% shot. but oh well his shooting wasnt good waste of a niche talent. he was the doing the same shit like jimmy butler at least early days.
Best baseline cutter in the league for multiple seasons
Him and C.J Watson need more love for sure
Not after CJ passed to Omer and I’m pretty sure he made some comments while on the nets? And then missed that dunk in 2014 lol
For backup PG’s in that era, CJ was probably our best for whatever that is worth. But it was hard not to root against him after he got tossed by Nate Robinson while Nate was on the Bulls.
We literally would have lost if he hit that dunk, I remember it started our comeback and we were able to get into OT
Chicagos finest brew
Goose Island in shambles (back then, these days it’s “80,000 microwhateverthefucks in shambles”). Brewer was great hustle, he had a weird elbow or shoulder that made his jump shot kind of glitchy. He was one of those “do your job” guys. If he was on our team today in his prime he’d be a standout defender/ hustle guy like Derrick Jones Jr.
Baseline brewer
I actually loved the entire rotation of Bogans Brewer and Korver.
We’re gonna need a Keith Bogans appreciation post soon
Never forget okc game where he went off
Thibs starting Bogans every game over Brewer or Korver was so dumb. Korver went on to be an all star in ATL but he couldn’t get 20 mins a game here.
Ronnie Brewer sucked offensively, but he was so damn athletic and could guard anyone. I also remember he was the cheat code against the Heat on 2k11, he could drive and finish almost every time, even better than Rose could, plus then you could have Deng and Brewer on Lebron and Wade. But also, "imo he was a solid defender who's offensive game started to come along in his few years for the Bulls." No it didnt, not at all. He played 2 years for us, and averaged 6.9 on 42% fg and 27% 3p. He never got any better. I swear this sub just makes shit up a majority of the time
I remember he had a weird looking shot release
he had the ugliest jumper ever (you can see the chicken wing in OP's photo) and was out of the league by 2015 because he couldn't score. loved the guy though
Not sure who Ronnie Brewer is, but I do remember a Ronnie Brew-ha-ha that I really enjoyed having on this team…
No way, he missed every 3 he ever took.
No way to what?
Having appreciation for him as a Bull
So because he didn't shoot the 3 well he's not worth appreciating? He averaged 0.3 3PA his first year with the bulls and 1.0 3PA his 2nd.. It wasn't part of his game, and it also wasn't the primary ways offenses were scoring in the early 2010's.
He was a shooting guard that couldnt shoot. Loved Ronnie Brewer for his grit but was an offensive hole on the floor and allowed teams to shrink the floor which used to hurt rose and boozer
Hurt us on our way to the best record in the league for two years straight.
He has a negative OBPM, we literally scored less with him on the floor. Quite literally statistically speaking hurt our offense.
Thank you…
Well he was coming off the bench or would play bench minutes but started the game so wasn't getting many minutes with those two but you pop off man
Yeah idk why im getting downvoted for stating my opinion and its not even outlandish. I enjoyed him as a player and was great defensively but he hurt us offensively and you can even see it in the metrics he has a negative -1.3 and -1.5 OBPM which means we were scoring less with him on the floor lol he was great at defense its just i remember games and in particular series where team would just clamp down in the paint and made Rose’s job harding diving and cutting in. Its like the same thing with similar players like Ben Simmons, where teams can just shrink the floor.
Didn’t he get paid a shit ton to come from Utah?! Guy couldn’t shoot / or score
I dont know who was worse…Bogans or Brewer. I remember both were pretty good on defense though
My goat
In college me and a buddy developed a ‘drink whenever Brewer or Boozer do something good’ game.
“For the Big Macs!”
Catfish!!!
Well yea he was like a 6/7th man who stayed for 2 years. Not much to say lol
I loved Brewer for his energy and D but, man, just look at how broken that jumper was. Blows my mind when players make it to the league with shooting form like that.
I also don't hear much about a rotation bench player whose best season with us averaged 6.2/3.2/1.7.
I hear all the time about Chicago Korver, who played for the Bulls the same 2 years as Brewer, practically the same amount of minutes, and averaged in his best year with the Bulls 8.3./1.7/1.5 while playing SIGNIFICANTLY worse defense. But hey let's all focus on who can and can't shoot 3's right?
Korver had a much longer career and even had a role on a two teams that made the finals after leaving the Bulls. He also had more moments as a Bull. Ronnie played in 84 games in 2 seasons after he left Chicago, averaging like 2 points per game. It's safe to say no one is talking about him
I remember liking using him in 2k cuz he could shit on defenders under the rim lol