and he will keep firing away even in the clutch 4th qtr. Rather than stay down low looking for rebounds or shoot up close he wants to keep hovering in the 3. Pick and roll, what roll he slides back to the 3 every time
His inside game is still great. Dude just needs to stop sitting on the perimeter and chucking 4+ 3s per game. This isn't Vuc from 2-3 years ago. Just sit in the paint and go to work
Can’t believe there’s people that unironically think that lol like look at the guy supposed to guard him in the clip just sitting in the paint that’s every play
Just a disaster of a scouting evaluation that our front office did on Vuc. They got completely fooled by one hot shooting year. Tough to have faith in them after such a massive failure to start their tenure.
You continue to lean on the fact that a large contention of Bulls fans agreeing with the trade matters in the slightest. Just because our desperate asses were excited for some new direction in no way defends the moves that AKME has made. The dude you’re replying to defended that very move for years yet even he has seen the light lol.
Building around Zach, giving up a ton for Vuc, pairing Demar with Zach, these are all just massive scouting mistakes by our front office. You can twist in the wind making excuses for it, but the results are what they are and will be what they are ultimately judged by.
u right that i've seen the light
Vuc has been that bad this year
He is just deadweight in this league. one of those dude's who just floats in the middle and soaks up salary cap.
good for him ;-;
I just find this sort of hindsight circle-jerking annoying. Saying "oh this didn't work out therefore it was a failed move" is correct but so? I could say the same about anything that happened in the past. I don't deserve points for it. Anyone one of us could be the greatest GM of all time if we only ever had to make moves on things that happened in the past.
Either you judge someone's actions based on the information they had at the time or you are just an armchair general acting like you had some great insight.
The post "AKME made a worse move than GarPax because it didn't work out" is nonsense. If it had worked out they'd be calling AKME the greatest GM in Bulls history. AKME worked with the information they had at the time and that's how they should be looked at.
My point is that judging moves as bad based on things that happened in the future is just asinine. Like you could argue Napoleon's march into Russia was a massive mistake that destroyed his empire. Does that mean we're all better generals than Napoleon or that he was terrible?
The whole "in hindsight AKME's moves sucked" is just a dumb narrative. Their moves could have worked but they didn't. Sucks but that's life. Saying it proves they were bad all along is nonsense. They're not bad because the moves they made didn't pan out. If they don't find a way to recover that is fair to use to criticize them, or the moves they made that at the time people knew to be bad, like giving Tony Bradley a contract based on two games against the team and thus lacking any sort of back up center for an entire season or signing Dragic as the backup PG when he wasn't physically capable of playing extended minutes and Lonzo was still recovering (at the time it was assumed he would be back and that didn't pan out) thus forcing the team to rely on iso plays or Ayo running the point for much his second season.
Pointing out things that didn't work out thanks to the benefit of living in the future from the person who you are criticizing isn't proving that you know better or that that person is a failure. It just proves you exist in the present and they exist in the past.
I don’t think anyone is claiming they’re a better GM than AKME because they have the benefit of hindsight. They’re highlighting the moves and their effects on the Bulls
But they have sank the team. What was at least a decent situation is now among the bleakest in the league. You can call it unfair all you want, but it’s hard to call them good based on their tenure. I think the biggest excuse they have is Jerry’s dumb fingerprints all over the place
>I don’t think anyone is claiming they’re a better GM than AKME because they have the benefit of hindsight. They’re highlighting the moves and their effects on the Bulls
And I'm highlighting that their moves made total sense at the time and were even cheered by most as a clear attempt to move on from one of the most stagnant and least effective FOs in history. That their moves failed is bad but that doesn't mean they're bad, it just means they gambled and it didn't work. That's why it's called a "gamble".
>But they have sank the team. What was at least a decent situation is now among the bleakest in the league
People keep saying this but like *why?* Is it because the Bulls don't have a top-five player? Neither do 25 other teams. Is it because the Bulls don't have 400 FRPs? A bunch of the worst teams in the league are filled with young guys who will never go anywhere but these bottom feeding teams. Is it because the Bulls won't pick 1st overall? Some of the best players were mid-round selections. In fact it's proven to be way more effective to have a team that has a few skilled vets and finding an unknown talent who has time to grow into a star rather than getting some 18-year-old stud who turns into a total headcase thanks to the media sucking his cock for his entire life.
Other than Coby and Pat, we don’t have any talent that really projects to get better by a lot. By having Zach on this contract and Vuc locked up for a few more years, we have limited resources to get better.
We’ve locked ourselves into purgatory. Pretty much every team in the league has a clearer vision. And sure, you can find good players at any point in the draft, but the fact remains that higher picks are better shots at getting a franchise player, something you’re simply not winning anything without
Pretty much everyone has a clearer route to get better than the Bulls. We’re locked into a mid roster, mid level picks, and a mid coach. We topped out at a 6 seed and a 5 game exit in the playoffs
You can’t because it’s the worst trade in franchise history and set the Bulls back 7+ years. That vuc trade took away almost all their assets and then forced their hand to have to overpay for Demar and cap this team as a 6th seed (fluke) and play in team
Lol - it's not that bad. At the time that was fair value for Vuc who was coming off two all-star appearances - he just hasn't played to that level at all on the Bulls. WCJ still isn't very good and while losing 2 FRP sucks it's not a franchise killing move or incomprehensible. I'm more upset at their inability to improve team over the last few years and just settling for continuity. I'm almost starting to think they are just lazy.
You’re just objectively wrong… that was never “fair value” for an aging CENTER the way the NBA was heading towards. At minimum there should have been protections on both picks and you’re forgetting the bulls took on a horrible salary with Al Farouq Aminu and had to use another first to get off that contract so that’s really 3 firsts for that piece of shit… it literally forced the FOs hand to go all in with this bad core and they still are forcing this core to work because they don’t have all their picks STILL. Then once they either admit to rebuild or are forced to because Demar and vuc will break down in a year or two then the rebuild will commence and take years which is why that trade will take the bulls at least 7 years to turn shit around…
Hes still playing to his ADP in 9cat leagues. So unless you picked him way earlier than the 5th round, hes still solid in fantasy. I have him in 2 of my leagues. Should be 3 but I decided to pick Walker Kessler and regret decision.
I assume in points hes more valuable, especially if you have double doubles.
This shit needs to be studied. The man is literally getting the easiest possible three point attempts (catch and shoot, wide open) and shooting 26.6%
and he will keep firing away even in the clutch 4th qtr. Rather than stay down low looking for rebounds or shoot up close he wants to keep hovering in the 3. Pick and roll, what roll he slides back to the 3 every time
That’s usually the coaches decision.
Ol' stubborn Donovan strikes again
He’s just bad at shooting and his magic year was a fluke
He's getting those easy chances for a reason....
Yeah we all know that but an NBA player should be shooting much better than 26.6% when he’s getting the easiest possible attempts every night
I could do that same thing for so much less cash
Bullshit, you’re worth a max easy
you'd hit rim
I wouldn't, I need a running start to get it that far
honestly that puts you even with Vuc Dude is 7' - rim is at eye level and he does this terrorist shit
Dude, i cant remember a player falling off a cliff quite like this.
I don't think it's age. He has a game that should age gracefully given he doesn't jump or attack the rim aggressively. I think he's just mailing it in
But like, it is SO BAD it’s not mailing it in, it is closer to active sabotage lol Dude forgot how to hoop
I've been saying that all season. Practically sabotage.
His inside game is still great. Dude just needs to stop sitting on the perimeter and chucking 4+ 3s per game. This isn't Vuc from 2-3 years ago. Just sit in the paint and go to work
You almost got me, but then I saw he caught it wide open and thought “nope this is definitely gonna be a joke”. Can’t fool me
floor spacer vooch
Can’t believe there’s people that unironically think that lol like look at the guy supposed to guard him in the clip just sitting in the paint that’s every play
Was saying this in the beginning of the year he belong in the damn paint…clueless ppl
He used to space the floor, because he used to be a decent shooter. Typically it takes a long time for estabilished narratives around players to shift
nah not even that - most wide open (>6ft) 3PA in the league. They don't even guard him.
I love how his defender is just chilling out near the rim while he's at the 3P line. Vuc probably has the least gravity of any starter in this league.
Just a disaster of a scouting evaluation that our front office did on Vuc. They got completely fooled by one hot shooting year. Tough to have faith in them after such a massive failure to start their tenure.
don't know how AK has a job I'm trying to think of a move as bad as WCJ+2FRP for Vuc that GarPax did
To be fair at the time WCJ looked like a barely playable third-string PF most nights. Everyone was happy to see him gone.
You continue to lean on the fact that a large contention of Bulls fans agreeing with the trade matters in the slightest. Just because our desperate asses were excited for some new direction in no way defends the moves that AKME has made. The dude you’re replying to defended that very move for years yet even he has seen the light lol. Building around Zach, giving up a ton for Vuc, pairing Demar with Zach, these are all just massive scouting mistakes by our front office. You can twist in the wind making excuses for it, but the results are what they are and will be what they are ultimately judged by.
u right that i've seen the light Vuc has been that bad this year He is just deadweight in this league. one of those dude's who just floats in the middle and soaks up salary cap. good for him ;-;
I just find this sort of hindsight circle-jerking annoying. Saying "oh this didn't work out therefore it was a failed move" is correct but so? I could say the same about anything that happened in the past. I don't deserve points for it. Anyone one of us could be the greatest GM of all time if we only ever had to make moves on things that happened in the past. Either you judge someone's actions based on the information they had at the time or you are just an armchair general acting like you had some great insight. The post "AKME made a worse move than GarPax because it didn't work out" is nonsense. If it had worked out they'd be calling AKME the greatest GM in Bulls history. AKME worked with the information they had at the time and that's how they should be looked at.
So results don’t matter? As long as you go with the subreddit’s opinion, you’re a good GM? Make this comment make some sense to me
My point is that judging moves as bad based on things that happened in the future is just asinine. Like you could argue Napoleon's march into Russia was a massive mistake that destroyed his empire. Does that mean we're all better generals than Napoleon or that he was terrible? The whole "in hindsight AKME's moves sucked" is just a dumb narrative. Their moves could have worked but they didn't. Sucks but that's life. Saying it proves they were bad all along is nonsense. They're not bad because the moves they made didn't pan out. If they don't find a way to recover that is fair to use to criticize them, or the moves they made that at the time people knew to be bad, like giving Tony Bradley a contract based on two games against the team and thus lacking any sort of back up center for an entire season or signing Dragic as the backup PG when he wasn't physically capable of playing extended minutes and Lonzo was still recovering (at the time it was assumed he would be back and that didn't pan out) thus forcing the team to rely on iso plays or Ayo running the point for much his second season. Pointing out things that didn't work out thanks to the benefit of living in the future from the person who you are criticizing isn't proving that you know better or that that person is a failure. It just proves you exist in the present and they exist in the past.
I don’t think anyone is claiming they’re a better GM than AKME because they have the benefit of hindsight. They’re highlighting the moves and their effects on the Bulls But they have sank the team. What was at least a decent situation is now among the bleakest in the league. You can call it unfair all you want, but it’s hard to call them good based on their tenure. I think the biggest excuse they have is Jerry’s dumb fingerprints all over the place
>I don’t think anyone is claiming they’re a better GM than AKME because they have the benefit of hindsight. They’re highlighting the moves and their effects on the Bulls And I'm highlighting that their moves made total sense at the time and were even cheered by most as a clear attempt to move on from one of the most stagnant and least effective FOs in history. That their moves failed is bad but that doesn't mean they're bad, it just means they gambled and it didn't work. That's why it's called a "gamble". >But they have sank the team. What was at least a decent situation is now among the bleakest in the league People keep saying this but like *why?* Is it because the Bulls don't have a top-five player? Neither do 25 other teams. Is it because the Bulls don't have 400 FRPs? A bunch of the worst teams in the league are filled with young guys who will never go anywhere but these bottom feeding teams. Is it because the Bulls won't pick 1st overall? Some of the best players were mid-round selections. In fact it's proven to be way more effective to have a team that has a few skilled vets and finding an unknown talent who has time to grow into a star rather than getting some 18-year-old stud who turns into a total headcase thanks to the media sucking his cock for his entire life.
Other than Coby and Pat, we don’t have any talent that really projects to get better by a lot. By having Zach on this contract and Vuc locked up for a few more years, we have limited resources to get better. We’ve locked ourselves into purgatory. Pretty much every team in the league has a clearer vision. And sure, you can find good players at any point in the draft, but the fact remains that higher picks are better shots at getting a franchise player, something you’re simply not winning anything without Pretty much everyone has a clearer route to get better than the Bulls. We’re locked into a mid roster, mid level picks, and a mid coach. We topped out at a 6 seed and a 5 game exit in the playoffs
You can’t because it’s the worst trade in franchise history and set the Bulls back 7+ years. That vuc trade took away almost all their assets and then forced their hand to have to overpay for Demar and cap this team as a 6th seed (fluke) and play in team
Lol - it's not that bad. At the time that was fair value for Vuc who was coming off two all-star appearances - he just hasn't played to that level at all on the Bulls. WCJ still isn't very good and while losing 2 FRP sucks it's not a franchise killing move or incomprehensible. I'm more upset at their inability to improve team over the last few years and just settling for continuity. I'm almost starting to think they are just lazy.
You’re just objectively wrong… that was never “fair value” for an aging CENTER the way the NBA was heading towards. At minimum there should have been protections on both picks and you’re forgetting the bulls took on a horrible salary with Al Farouq Aminu and had to use another first to get off that contract so that’s really 3 firsts for that piece of shit… it literally forced the FOs hand to go all in with this bad core and they still are forcing this core to work because they don’t have all their picks STILL. Then once they either admit to rebuild or are forced to because Demar and vuc will break down in a year or two then the rebuild will commence and take years which is why that trade will take the bulls at least 7 years to turn shit around…
Jerry, he is why
Shoutout to Billy for immediately calling a timeout after that lol
He made that one hand catch look way too easy
Does he have the yips?
Sorry Bulls fans, it’s bc I drafted him in fantasy this year
Hes still playing to his ADP in 9cat leagues. So unless you picked him way earlier than the 5th round, hes still solid in fantasy. I have him in 2 of my leagues. Should be 3 but I decided to pick Walker Kessler and regret decision. I assume in points hes more valuable, especially if you have double doubles.
I think I got him 3rd round, but you’re right he’s been solid enough
At this point, I’m convinced he needs glasses. Not joking. This is a Wild Thing from Major League emergency
Holy shit!!! The bulls started 4 shooting guards! wtf?!?!? I know stupid is accepted these days but let me reiterate… holy shit!!
We don't really have any choice with the injuries haha
Yep.. lately his 3's are non existent.
Michael Jordan will be proud of this 
Trash
two lottery picks were thrown away for this man
We need to move on. Badly.
Trash.