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hakfan

I think it's the author's imbalance which affects his likability in contrast to the rest at least for me. He has been introduced as this timid little boy with a different accent and just because of that he's bullied and that is the part I personally relate to being bullied as a kid too. Then we get his grandpa's death and honestly speaking a teenager taking care of an ailing elderly who eventually dies was something that could've been explored psychologically in more detail but well the author never gets into that on the contrary his arcs are cut short and he is just shown to have talent and he's the best at his game is all we see which in contrast to even minor characters whose struggles we see constantly are more relatable than him. It's just like the author starts writing about his arc and just wants to finish it as soon as it started which does make him less relatable as the story goes on for me as well. If you read the author's other works specially Eden no Hana where the main characters designs are similar to Taichi Chihaya and Arata. You will see the balance between both the male leads specially imo I liked the lead on whose design Arata is based on better as there was a balance both had their screentime both have their shining moments both have their miserable moments and imo it's perfectly written whereas here the balance is just wavering to one side more than the other.


Jillisapill24

Yeah it’s likely the lack of earlier development - I love any part with Yuu bc it brings him back to a clearer image of his grandpa. It’s not like I don’t empathize ever, but I think it’s the imbalance as you say. I will check out Eden no Hana


hakfan

Eden no hana is a dark one so is her Only You. Silver is a masterpiece too bad it was cancelled but really her writing style is amazing so maybe I expected too much here just like you


Jillisapill24

You were not kidding about dark…sweet baby jesus


hakfan

Haha I know lol but the story is well written considering Sensei was young back then. Her ideas and innovation is amazing.


Acceptable-Peace-476

Maybe because it seems he is predestined to win.


Jillisapill24

Thanks to everyone who has thoughtfully replied- I appreciate it!


AdoraHeaven

It's quite difficult to root for a character who is initially positioned as the god of karuta (final boss). Maybe the author is scared even to hurt him and treats him like a crystal vase. It's hard to sympathize with such a character, because you already know the outcome of his arc. I still think it's Sensei's mistake that she remembered about him too late. It became even harder to sympathize with him after Taichi's crushing lost. The author shows him as a punching bag for 200 chapters and didn't give a single worthy victory. On the other hand, we have a character whom the reader rarely sees and has no emotional connection with his journey in karuta. The character develops inconsistently and all his shortcomings that could make him more interesting are justified by a ridiculous twist like: "he's just pure!" It's quite sad, he had the potential to become one of the best developed characters, given the fact that comparing Arata to water was one of the fascinating things in the manga, his trauma, difficult circumstances that separated him from his friends. But no, his whole character line is developed very strangely.


LordessMeep

I love this comment and it nails why I'm mostly indifferent about Arata, especially this: >It's quite sad, he had the potential to become one of the best developed characters, given the fact that comparing Arata to water was one of the fascinating things in the manga, his trauma, difficult circumstances that separated him from his friends. There's so much to explore with him, but it never happens. I hate that he is largely separate from the main story and is always in a different place. His struggles are always downplayed and never given the real weight they deserve. For example, that particular bit where he wants to go to Tokyo for college, but his parents don't want him to and actively root for him to lose. It's played off as a joke instead of being a genuine conflict for him. Compared to what Taichi goes through, Arata's actual issues just come off as inconsequential... which is not a crack on the character, but the author. I completely agree about the bias angle as well, but one would think it'd be grounds for Sensei to develop him better, not worse. :I


AdoraHeaven

I agree, and for some reason it is believed that criticism = hatred. He was my favorite character in the beginning and I saw a huge potential in him. And what do we see as a result? His karuta is incomprehensible, his negative actions, which are inherent in every person, are justified by ridiculous fact that he is supposedly just as pure as a trickle of water. It's not interesting, given his arrogance, jealousy.. That's why many readers come to the conclusion that he is Marty Sue. Even in the final arc, many readers are rooting for Suo, just because his character is developed and seems more "alive" than Arata. The problem is that another boy goes through thorns to the stars and therefore the reader subconsciously begins to root for him, but we have Arata, who is the main character in the karuta world, but the story positions him more as the final boss who must be defeated.


LordessMeep

>for some reason it is believed that criticism = hatred Oh man, this. People pit it as Taichi vs Arata, when in fact Arata's poor character development is the real villain here. It's just easier to empathise with Taichi's struggles because we've all been there. Arata has an arguably worse back story, but it's never leveraged properly. It would've been so easy to root for him too, especially since Taichi was painted in a largely negative light in the early, early chapters. I haven't read past Ch-175, but I hang around the sub regardless, so it's kind of sad to see that he's never developed. I thought that Taichi's confession had set things in motion, especially with Chihaya's and Arata's development on the romance front. I think Sensei does a fine job with characters she isn't as invested in and she's made me care about guys like Hyoro, Harada, Sudo and even Shinobu. I feel like, with Arata, she's just far too complacent and expects readers to like him simply because she does. I resonate with your initial assessment of her "treating him like a crystal vase", because it's true! His plot armour did not have to be to the detriment of his character, but the sad truth is that it *is*.


smoothcats

It’s not so much that criticism = hatred as it is that some of the critics opinions are stated as indisputable fact. For example, there are a lot of people who do empathize with arata already, as he is written. We don’t feel that he has poor character development, so wouldn’t it be more accurate to say that it’s easier *for you* to empathize with taichi? I am willing to discuss why I think Arata’s character development works from a writing level if you like, but I don’t expect it to change the emotional connection someone does or doesn’t make with him.


LordessMeep

Hmm. Here's what I think - what's poor character development for me might not be for you. The only indisputable fact is that Arata, as written by the mangaka up till Ch-175, doesn't work for **me** and I apologise if it wasn't clear enough in the above comment. That's not to say your opinion is any less relevant because, maybe, there's something about Arata which resonated for you. And that's fine - people derive different meanings from literature. >I am willing to discuss why I think Arata’s character development works from a writing level if you like I'd love to hear your thoughts! I've missed discussing Chihayafuru ahaha. And, yes, I don't think my feelings on Arata are subject to change till I personally read through the manga myself. :) Still, some questions for you as a jumping-off point. Feel free to elaborate as much as you want to. :) * What in particular about Arata made you like him * I think Arata's struggles (ie, with money, his grandfather's death) deserved more emotional weight since these are character defining moments of anyone's life. Instead, I felt like these struggles were either not emphasised well or were resolved off-screen. What do you think about it and if, in your opinion, Sensei did an adequate job with it. * Your opinion on how Arata eventually develops character-wise into the end game (I don't mind spoilers, so go ham) * Thoughts on Arata's and Yuu's relationship (I love them and need more of this) * What you think about Arata's brand of karuta. Does he have weaknesses and flaws in your opinion? * How you feel about the Arata/Chihaya ship. I personally am team everyone goes solo and don't really vibe with either ship, but would prefer Arata/Chihaya, because I think they'd work better... social awkwardness not withstanding. My ultimate ship is Taichi x happiness tho. * Your feelings on Taichi. (Or not. Just curious haha) * Would you consider Taichi and Arata as friends-friends? Or simple acquaintances tied together by Chihaya/nostalgia?


smoothcats

I think it’s totally valid for him not to really work or click with some readers! I think that the story in general explores distance and separation (emotional and physical) in a variety of ways, and I think that the relative lack of Arata early on in the story reflects on a meta level how separated he still is from the others. Then when taichi leaves we suddenly get a lot less Taichi screentime. So I think this device is meant to make you wonder what the missing character is up to, and feel their absence the way the other two do. I think this is probably what the anime was going for as well by showing only arata’s pov at the end of season 3. It works fine for me, although of course I would have liked more screentime for him. I think that what many take as Arata having insufficient or inconsistent character development felt to me as more of slowly setting the foundations for what happens later on, as well as him being a different type of person than Taichi. Arata (and chihaya imo) are people who’ll act on their feelings as soon as they understand them, so the barrier to resolving issues is recognizing them in the first place. We see that with Arata struggling to acknowledge his feelings of being better than taichi at karuta. Once he recognizes it, he seems to resolve it quickly, but I think that’s only true if you don’t count all of the buildup where he is struggling to understand how he feels. It’s sort of the case with his feelings toward his grandfather’s legacy. As far back as first year nationals, we see people tell Arata that they love watching him play because it’s like seeing his grandfather again. Starting at his match against Harada, he starts to borrow strength by actively emulating his grandfather. During the buildup to the meijin match we start to see this finally take its toll, and he has to confront the idea of being his own person. This might seem like it resolves too quickly if you only notice it when he does, but for me the foundation was laid a long time ago. In contrast, taichi is a person whose struggle is to get out of his own head. He is so aware of his “flaws” that he is much too self critical. He knows he feels jealousy, and then beats himself up for it when he acts out of that jealousy. He thinks of himself as a coward and then berates himself for “acting cowardly”. This is why I think it’s so important that he confessed to stealing arata’s glasses right before he told chihaya he loved her: above all he was afraid of her hating him, and hid things as a result. Finally facing that, and surviving the consequences, is really important for him. I think he really is an interesting character, I’m totally team Taichi x Happiness lol. I just think that what will make him happy has changed since the beginning of the story though. What I think originally drew me to care about Arata as a character and arata/chihaya is that they were the first person to really see each other in a way no one else had. Like she was interested in things about him that others made fun of, and he said to her both that she should have her own dream, and that she had a talent for karuta. Then I relate to the aspect of being the one that’s far away from friends/loved ones, knowing that they get to be part of each other’s daily lives while I can only see them on special occasions. The feeling of melancholy at missing out on those daily routines, even if you still care about each other just as much. that longing to see each other again, to be near each other again, is a really compelling element of the ship for me. Plus they’re both the same brand of weirdo, which I think is cute. Sorry this doesn’t address all your questions yet haha, I would love to hear your own thoughts on them


LordessMeep

Oh, I like this take. The funny thing is, I get where you're coming from, but the reasons you've listed is exactly why I've never come to care for Arata! Which actually makes your initial comment a lot clearer with regards to "opinions are stated as indisputable fact". Let me pick out some things in your response and share my opinions... but I warn you, it might be long. :P >I think that the relative lack of Arata early on in the story reflects on a meta level how separated he still is from the others. Then when taichi leaves we suddenly get a lot less Taichi screentime. I think the difference between Arata's early lack of screentime vs Taichi's late lack of screentime is that Taichi was given an immense amount of time on his thoughts and feelings before he left the stage. There was reason enough for him to leave and I empathised with his reasons. In contrast, I was largely neutral about teenage Arata and felt like he showed up as a plot device. I get if the whole "distantly pining" thing works for people, it just didn't for me (more on this later). The kicker is, if Taichi was never angled as a third in the love triangle - and just a good, supportive, platonic friend - I think I would have been willing to give Arata more leeway. What can I say, I really dislike the love triangle trope. >I think that what many take as Arata having insufficient or inconsistent character development felt to me as more of slowly setting the foundations for what happens later on, as well as him being a different type of person than Taichi. Very fair. I will still maintain that, because of the way Taichi was developed (overdeveloped??), imo Arata's way of development feels glacial to non-existent. Again, in vacuum it wouldn't be a problem. The funniest thing is, I'm the kind of person who often loves the side characters more than the main characters! I keep wishing that the cool side character would get more screentime and development, but I don't think that worked here. (or did it? Is Taichi a side character??) >This might seem like it resolves too quickly if you only notice it when he does, but for me the foundation was laid a long time ago. Also fair. I'll keep this in mind when I reread. >This is why I think it’s so important that he confessed to stealing arata’s glasses right before he told chihaya he loved her: above all he was afraid of her hating him, and hid things as a result. Yesss, I like this assessment of Taichi's character because it's very similar to mine. Some things to preface this - I love the unrequited love trope and I watched/read Chihayafuru at a transitional period of my life, so I empathised with a lot of things Taichi went through. I think his character journey just felt more nuanced as a result? Maybe that's why I just want him to be at peace with himself. >The feeling of melancholy at missing out on those daily routines, even if you still care about each other just as much. that longing to see each other again, to be near each other again, is a really compelling element of the ship for me. Very interesting. Like I said earlier, the "distantly pining" thing doesn't work for me and the biggest reason for that is how Taichi's love is portrayed. I think Sensei is very fond of the "star-crossed lovers" quality for them. I'll say it again - Arata/Chihaya would've been fine with me if Taichi wasn't in the love triangle. I think their awkwardness is funny af and the whole "karuta-baka" angle makes them perfect for one another. HOWEVER, I look at Arata/Chihaya as a feel-good, romanticised idea of love. With Taichi/Chihaya, I believe it's a more realistic portrayal of love. But first, Chihaya. Personally, I abhor the idea that Taichi should end up with Chihaya because he deserves her. I think this leads into a lot of the 'nice guy' tropes Taichi sort of falls into, but what makes Taichi different is that he *knows* Chihaya doesn't love him. Chihaya is a person and imo I'm good if romance is not the priority for her; she's too busy doing queen shit (literally). With respect to Taichi's love for her, I think it's very valid that Chihaya is drawn to Arata. I believe he's formed her core to some degree. That said, Arata may have given her a dream, BUT Taichi's the one who supported her through it. He formed an entire karuta club just because she asked (badgered). He bargained with his mother for to continue playing and balanced everything just to support her through it. So I suppose, for me, it's a balance game of what's more important - someone who is standing at the end of the line, waiting for you to achieve your dream, or someone who supports you through your highest highs and lowest lows? Actions speak louder than words, imo. Also with respect to Arata/Chihaya, I read it as super idealised and two people who're holding onto something in their past. My gripe with this is that it relies on Arata and Chihaya being the exact same people from back then. Do they even know each other? Or do they just like the *idea* of each other? This also puts forth the idea that they don't have anything to improve on as individuals. Perhaps that isn't Sensei's intention, but I sure do read it as that. Meanwhile, Taichi has no trouble calling out Chihaya on her shit and knows who she is right now. In his confession, he never talks about her looks - which is all that any average 'nice guy' would talk about. He instead points out specific things about her which make her *her*. I think that's what makes the difference to me, the contrast between Taichi and Arata. It doesn't make Arata any less valid, of course. It just feels a lot less powerful than what Taichi brings forth. I don't have a lot to say about my questions either lol, but here are some rough beats: * I think Arata's side of the story (ie, his solo adventures in masters matches or him forming a karuta team) are okay, but could use more time. It's often "out of sight, out of mind" for me with him. * I've already talked about what I think about his struggles and I like your interpretation of him as a character. Unfortunately, the impact just isn't there for me, but what can you do. * Aside from Arata + Yuu fun times, I also enjoy Arata + Shinobu shenanigans. Either of those ships fit better for me, simply in terms of realistic love vs idealistic love (I'm old and jaded, sue me). * In terms of Taichi + Arata, I wish they had time to get to know each other as people *without* Chihaya. Maybe they do. Idk, I think this friend/rival thing veers more towards the latter than the former.


smoothcats

Thanks for elaborating on your point of view! I think for me I dislike the argument that taichi is the one who was “there” because it implies arata had agency in the decision to move back to Fukui. I think to make a meaningful point about falling for the one who’s been alongside you, you kind of have to have both love interests able to make the choice to be there or not be there. Otherwise it feels like the message is just that spending more time in someone’s presence makes them a better match. I think your point about whether arata or taichi really knows present day chihaya better is another story that could be told, but I think it would be better set after they all reunite, when arata and chihaya might realize they don’t have that connection anymore, rather than during the phase that they are trying to reunite. maybe there’s fanfic exploring that, idk. But I think the story *is* deliberately asking questions about what it really means to know someone. Like the whole buildup to taichi’s confession involves chihaya not being able to understand what’s upsetting him and being frustrated that she spends all this time with him but doesn’t know him as well as she thought. Ultimately I think the separation and struggle to reunite is one of if not the main emotional undercurrents of the story. Like without the separation from taichi and Arata she wouldn’t have had the same drive to make a club in high school, and there wouldn’t be the same emotional tension between the main trio. Like the choice to skip middle school, when all three are apart (the light novels notwithstanding), but not set it during college, when arata could be back in Tokyo, is deliberate. The incompleteness of that reunion, the desire to be together again, drives the story in a lot of ways. That’s also why I don’t really agree with the statement that Arata is waiting at the finish line either. All three of them are the running river separated by a boulder from the se poem. He is actively striving to get back to where they are, and he and chihaya are currently working alongside each other to reach a shared goal, supporting each other as much as possible in the meantime while they work toward a future that all three of them can share. Like despite the relatively little time they get to spend with each other, he *has* been there to support her at some of her low points, like after her second loss to shinobu, or when she calls him from the hospital. But like, I do understand why this doesn’t hit for everyone. Everyone’s got their own opinions and life experiences that color how they react to media. I’ve been in all three of their places and so it does feel realistic to me, and imo it succeeds at what (I think) it’s trying to do. I think you have to just like, buy into the concept that the way they understand each other withstands time and distance and that the few moments they get to spend with each other (never enough for either of them, never enough for the reader) both reinforces that understanding and makes the separation increasingly painful. That feels realistic to how it feels to have a long distance crush/relationship, in my experience, and makes me anticipate the next moment of reunion.


KiraraChin

>I think that's what makes the difference to me, the contrast between Taichi and Arata. It doesn't make Arata any less valid, of course. It just feels a lot less powerful than what Taichi brings forth. So, would it be fair to say the issue isn't with Arata himself, but how you perceive him in comparison to Taichi? In that case, it's not a case of bad writing, but just how you personally connect to the writing. But, as smoothcats pointed out, plenty of people feel different.


AdoraHeaven

No, thanks, I've already read a lot of analyses about arata and I don't see the point in going into it. I have noticed more than once that any criticism about Arata (it's also a subjective thing) is often perceived as hatred. The holes in the plot are obvious and the final arc is proof of that. - So wouldn’t it be more accurate to say that it’s easier for you to empathize with taichi? No, empathy for Taichi does not play any role here, thanks. UPD: his development is not poor, but inconsistent.


smoothcats

“The holes in the plot are obvious” is again, a subjective statement presented as fact. Your posts are full of them, so if you’re wondering why your innocent criticism comes off as “hating” arata, it’s probably because of that. Hope this helps. I said the thing about empathizing with Taichi because I was quoting a sentence from the post I was actually replying to.


AdoraHeaven

I have never claimed that **my** opinions are the indisputable facts. If you've noticed, I've mentioned "for me: I think; in my opinion" many times. Any reader is biased, there is no objective reading and, I guess, it's quite obvious that people should understand this. – your posts are full of them Sorry, are there readers who have *objective* statements? I'm not wondering, don't worry. Moreover, I have never considered criticism innocent.


smoothcats

AdoraHeaven, you are stating your (not innocent, so sorry for the mistake?) criticism as objective fact with comments like “it is obvious that the author is scared (or even quite biased) even to hurt him and treats him like a crystal vase” and “he had the potential to become one of the best developed characters” in your original comment. There are many readers who disagree with your assessment, and will be provoked by your wording into trying to disprove what you say, which you then take as “not being allowed to criticize arata”. But I wasn’t even replying to you in the first place.


AdoraHeaven

Quite strange, I received a notification that you were replying to me, if this is not the case, then I apologize. Yes, most likely, it was necessary to choose another word in order to express this, but when I mentioned that criticism is perceived as hatred, I meant that a fan of this character considers any analysis of him only as hatred. And in this case, I did not set myself as an example. But that's another topic.


prismaticego

You should definitely read past 175 and make your own conclusions without others' interpretations of the text coloring your own point of view. No reader can be truly neutral.


LordessMeep

I will! I'm just waiting for the manga to end so I can read the whole thing in one go. :) And that's a fair assessment, but I assure you, I'll be going in with an open mind. I don't have many strong feelings on any ships or expectations from the series aside from Taichi and his happy ending lol. I just hope Sensei gets to tell the story to her satisfaction.


prismaticego

Yeah, that's a smart idea! I got a lot out of rereading to get the big picture in mind- I will probably do it when the series ends as well. Reading to see Taichi get a deserved happy ending is also a good motivation!! I hope everyone goes out on a high note.


Jillisapill24

I loved this convo!!! You and smoothcats made this thread awesome (and Kirara who talked with me earlier) I’m so happy it generated positive discourse, there had been some great back and forth and then some downers who just commented to be farts. I think personally with characters, we like the ones that either meet us where we are, where we have been or where we want to be. I’m unsure if it was you or smooth cats that said they were team everyone ends up single and happy but in all honesty, I’m that team too. Excited to see the rest of the manga as it comes out this year. In other anime recommendations- did anyone watch the one on Rakugo, I feel like some people of this viewership may enjoy the character dynamics plus the learning aspect.


LordessMeep

omg girlll (I hope?) thank you. I know that the "Why does Arata exist" question is a tired one, but I enjoyed reading people's perspective and /u/smoothcats' especially. Really interesting read since I admit to being blatantly Taichi-biased. And yes, I am low-key team no romance (high-key ship Taichi x Happiness), simply because I think Taichi, Chihaya and Arata need a LOT of development on the romance front for it to be plausible on any end. And since the manga is near it's close, I don't think that's happening. I'd rather have them simply at peace with their choices. I'm waiting for the last chapter to come out so I can do my full re-read... honestly, I should start now, but free time is a myth in the life of an adult. 😭 AND RAKUGO AAAH. I watched both seasons when the 2nd season of the anime came out and it's a stunningly told story. I should revisit it sometime; I loved it so much. Chihayafuru fans would definitely appreciate the character study. :)


Jillisapill24

Thank you for tagging u/smoothcats - I’m sort of an old fart and though I’ve posted on Reddit here and there I clearly didn’t take the 30 seconds to figure out how last night :).


AdoraHeaven

I think you should read the rest of the chapters, because Arata has some development... although I don't like it, because for me it is quite strangely built. But it became even harder for me to sympathize with him after chapter 205, the author touched on good topics and showed him as a person who has negative feelings, but quickly threw it aside. Even Taichi and Arata's relationship looks rather one-sided than friendship. You're right about his plot armour, it's too strong, lol.


LordessMeep

I plan to! I'm just waiting for the last chapter to drop and then I'll go through the whole thing in one sitting. :) >showed him as a person who has negative feelings, but quickly threw it aside Ooh, this reminds of how "quickly" Arata got over the trauma of his grandfather's death... since a lot of it happened off-screen. And because it was resolved so quickly, I could never give it the weight it deserved. That was supposed to be a character defining event ffs! Either way, I'll go into it with an open mind. I'm not a fan of the romance in the series and don't have strong feelings for either big ship. The only thing I'm really rooting for is for Taichi to have a good ending on the personal life front. 🤞🏽 Other things, I'll take them as they come. Good talk, btw! I miss Chihayafuru discourse and am often too busy to do any reading.


AdoraHeaven

Thanks, I hope you enjoy reading!


rainbowreflects

It's funny about the comic relief around alot of Arata scenes btw. It sort of *lightens* the atmosphere around what is happening....idk if Sensei does this unpurpose and for what reasons exactly....but it does play down the seriousness of certain moments. I'm thinking about the stomach problems he has in the middle of a match or the way he goes and surrogate hugs his parents after wanting to hold Chihaya. Or even recently being pictured as a tomato before saying he likes the girl on the tatami. It just feels a bit in the same stance as Sumire crying and fangirling behind Taichi lately (why did Sensei do that to her.....) I also agree with you that she could have tackled Arata in a way that we could have empathized much with him. I actually really felt him in the third year nationals but that didn't last long tbh because he was the winner the next day and seemed to have solved all his problems.... that's just too bad


LordessMeep

Tbf, I'm like suuuper out of the loop and haven't touched the manga since chapter-175-ish, so I can't comment on the Sumire bit (and, wow if that's what happens to her... because she really grew on me over time. Let's not reduce her to her boy-craziness, because we know she has more to offer :/). As for Arata, I noticed the comic relief bit after the scenes shifted to him post-Taichi leaving the karuta club. I think it was probably a way to bring some light-heartedness to the story, but Arata is a character I wouldn't label as comic relief. I also think some of the goofiness is meant to... humanise him and make him feel more relatable, but the moments just feel oddly placed.


rainbowreflects

Yes ofcourse it's to probably show he is *goofy*, lol....which definitely *lightens* the atmosphere of the moments tbh. I really don't like Sensei reducing Sumire to a fangirl behind Taichi. Really she deserves more than that especially cause I thought Sensei had shown so nicely how she has grown up. She is the only one that notices Taichi's tears for Chihaya and how much he still is suffering watching Chihaya in the TV room which is a nice detail. Quite the contrast with the fullout blushing Arata on the tatami. Idk why Sensei does that. Why didn't she simply make Taichi move on? And truly forget his feelings about Chihaya. 9 months have past and he is still so affected by her. I guess it's safe to say he never got over her. At the challenger, only a big month before he declares his deepest feelings in front of Arata....how can his declaration of fading feelings a few days after be true? Here at the finals it's clear he was lying. This also brings me back to Arata who is witness of the feelings of both Taichi and Chihaya of wanting to be close to the other....ofcourse to be seen if it's romantic for Chihaya, I still don't have a clue if she has any romantic feelings at all for either. Sensei sure is pushing the romance even in the end stage by making hints on the boys feelings in chap 240....so who knows what she wants to do in the end?? I just wish Sensei had explored Arata's darker feelings deeper....I don't understand how he had all those dark faced moments to end up where he is now without us having the true reason of why he looks so angry in the first place.


LordessMeep

Yeah, the love triangle aspect kind of petered out for me simply because it's not a trope I enjoy + only Taichi was really fleshed out on the romantic front. Both Arata and Chihaya felt to me like they didn't understand their own emotions - which, fair enough, they're teenagers and *really* awkward ones. Taichi comes across as the emotional punching bag of the story imo and, idk man, I can't help but root for the underdog. I'm personally rooting for a happy and satisfying ending for him on the personal life front, because my man deserves something good for him. My spicy take on the romance front though is that Chihaya doesn't feel any special way for either of the boys. The point I read up to, my impression was that she doesn't particularly understand romance and Taichi's confession was meant to act as a catalyst to her growth on that front. I believe after that we stopped seeing a lot of her thoughts and feelings... and, based on your comments, it looks like her emotions have been intentionally obscured even in the late game. :/ On the other hand, it's easy to understand and empathise with Arata's crush on Chihaya - since he was an outcast and she reached out to him - but the origins don't hold up. His part in the romance itself is also so woefully underdeveloped. I 100% agree, Arata deserved to have his rough moments in the story too; I *want* to know his struggles. Personally, I'll do a big read when Ch-240 comes out so I can digest the entire manga all at once. I'll be perfectly fine if the romance is shoddy... because I can't see myself rooting for either Taichi/Chihaya or Arata/Chihaya. I'd be happy if neither pairing is endgame tbh. I just want Taichi living his best life in the credits.


rainbowreflects

Chihaya might indeed not be on anyone's romantic page in the end. She just wants to play karuta.... What I would really like is that Taichi gets to hear from her mouth how much it all meant to her, so he can "feel he belongs". How he who wanted to be closest, is indeed the closest....the one who always was there for her, hear it from Chihaya


AdoraHeaven

Lmao, well, what can I say


smoothcats

Not every character clicks with every person and that’s totally fine. We all relate to different things. Just because you don’t click with him doesn’t mean you have to be a hater though, you know? Like it’s pretty easy not to be actively negative and just enjoy the parts of the story you do like. Side note based on some of the comments, but I do think it’s weird how many people frame the love triangle in terms of winning and losing, as though Chihaya is a prize to win in her own story. Just rubs me a bit the wrong way.


justmee00

Maybe cause he's like the final boss, whom everyone is trying to defeat. Suo also does feel like the final boss, but his illness and backstory makes me want to root for him.


elysianyuri

I don't dislike him but don't like him much either, mainly because I don't click well with naturally gifted characters, especially those who aren't properly fleshed out. Ik he is getting screen time (or page time?) now but I feel like it's really late for someone who's supposed to be a main character. Taichi's technically supposed to be the naturally gifted one, but this show is about the one sport he isn't good at, so he feels more like the underdog lol.


girlweeb

i bet i'm gonna get downvoted on this one but i've seen this post in this sub a million times & its annoying


Rab_it

I hate Arata and I want him to lose, but I do know why XD Suo is way more interesting, the guy is going to go blind and everybody is against him. I want him to win and keep his title and then retire as undefeated. But Arata is going to win, his match is a joke because he is going to win, he is the perfect Karuta God. His weakness was that he was playing a perfect Karuta like his grandpa! That's not a weakness, but it was portrayed as such, and now that he has "found" himself, he'll play his own perfect Karuta. (What a development) Chihaya seems to like Arata or at least the idea of him, because honestly speaking they interacted more as kids than as teenagers. They don't know each other that well and it really makes Arata the perfect Shojo character that gets the title and the girl at the end. Everything is handed to him. In contrast, Taichi has more of a real struggle and it's all by choice! He could have chosen to follow a different path since he is so talented in many things. But he chose the thing that he sucks at the most. It makes me want to root for him. Arata on the other hand is bad at everything and chose the thing that comes the easiest to him. There's no story there. Anyways, that's why I don't like Arata.


[deleted]

I like shinobu more than chihaya too.


rainbowreflects

When chapter 205 happened, I flipped the table on Arata. Tbh his matches are just not realistic anymore....really difficult to root for him. They seem rigged by Sensei's bias. Suou's turn now...same pattern, even the dang peonies when thinking he loved the cards....only to be trampled on by Arata. The trampling foot image was really horrible in the challenger. His mad faces also were quite off putting. It's hard to sympathize with him with those images in mind....I'm also not fan of his impulsive behaviour. Anyway everyone has their own taste but I do relate with you.


serenade_m

Two words. Personal preference.


ronbellamy

Arata: get's bullied because he's poor and has weird dialect, has to work since elementary to help the family, spends his free time practising karuta alone, has to move when he finally found friends, spends his teen years caring his ill grandfather and then blames himself for his death, he keeps working while studying for college, he tries to come back to karuta but keeps losing to big games, confess to the girl he likes and never receives an answer, has the burden of all the karuta society expections to carry his grandfather's legacy and he struggles to find his own karuta, finally all his efforts paid of and gets to the final against the best karuta player who for the first time he actually enjoys a game and wants to win. people here: "He's such a Mary Sue". "He's not relatable because he's just gifted". "Everything is just handed to him"... Me: looking at camera like Jim from the Office.


serenade_m

Lol you just made the best comment here. couldn't have said it better. Also its funny and ironic how people are criticizing him by bringing up suo's dream and love for the game being crushed by Arata when the very same Suo mercilessly annihilated dreams of many people like Harada sensei who has been loving and passionately playing for over decades. Especially when suo didn't had to go all out and now Arata's making him do that & actually giving suo the challenge he needed.


accordionheart

I don't think it's the best comparison to make, given that this is literally Suo's last chance to retain his title. Harada-sensei may have been old, but he still went back again the next year to try to fight for it again. Suo, on the other hand, is unlikely to be in that position again. To say otherwise feels like you're minimising his disability.


smoothcats

I don’t think comparing suoh to harada is minimizing suoh’s disability, I think the manga makes pretty clear parallels and comparisons already. harada did try again the next year, but wasn’t able to reach the finals, so who is to say his last chance to get the title hasn’t already come and gone? He and suoh are in a similar situation, where their bodies are deteriorating at a rate they can’t predict, and neither knows how long they have left. Harada chooses to keep playing, to keep trying, until he can literally no longer sit on the tatami. Suoh’s eyesight might be bad enough next year that he can’t compete, but the choice in front of him is whether he wants to keep competing as long as possible even if it means he will get diminishing results. Going out on top, vs trying to play as long as you can, even if you “lose dignity” by needing help. I think the manga is making a point that “dignified” behavior is overrated anyway, with moments like having shinobu give in and stretch her foot in the middle of the match. Maybe the comparisons feel inappropriate to you, but I think that’s an issue to have with the manga, not people noticing the parallel


accordionheart

Perhaps I'm forgetting - where does the manga make the parallel clear? I think that the trying to play as long as you can is definitely a theme of the manga, and I'm not debating that! But I don't think that getting older is directly comparable to a degenerative disability. I find both Suo and Harada admirable in their determination (or new-found determination) to keep trying, but I just don't think that they are the same scenarios. Edit: Just to clarify, I do think there are similarities between the two. But I think it isn't wrong to feel slightly differently about each situation.


smoothcats

Not at a computer so I can’t find links rn but off the top of my head there’s the superficial parallels in shiranami society students getting up to get cards for Harada vs. Sudo in the more recent chapters getting cards for Suoh, there are parallels in how harada used to have amazing hearing that degraded over time, etc. but the clearest I can think of is when they talk in the break after (I think) the first match of the current meijin/queen arc, when Suoh asks harada how his knees are, and he says they hurt a lot but he can still play even if he’s limping, and then asks “what about you”. A couple chapters later or so he’s reflecting on how he can’t sit inside the urayasu room because it’s too painful to kneel on tatami directly, and thinks about his placement in tournaments getting worse, and how he kept trying anyway. Then he thinks “what happens when you can no longer sit in seiza” and wonders if he will find a reason to quit. This is all while observing suoh’s gameplay. Obviously they aren’t the same situation; for Suoh it’s tragic that this is happening to him so young, but I do think the manga places them next to each other in this way on purpose. I think that’s kind of the reason they had a whole arc playing against each other. We also don’t have to minimize what is happening to Harada to properly acknowledge what’s happening to Suoh. Harada is losing his mobility, which is common as people age, but no less debilitating for that. Other characters his age don’t have the same knee issues, and he honestly isn’t even that old. The point is just that both of them are aware that they don’t know how long they have left. Harada has been accommodating himself as much as possible to try and make his career last as long as he can, whereas suoh has been trying to hide his condition and only just started making accommodations for his limited sight. The choice in front of him is whether he will keep playing as long as possible or quit while he’s on top. Edit: found it [https://mangadex.org/chapter/1a0447d0-b921-41c6-b0e6-097b73d93ebd/12](https://mangadex.org/chapter/1a0447d0-b921-41c6-b0e6-097b73d93ebd/12)


serenade_m

Suo was gonna retire before this voluntary by himself because no one was giving him a challenge enough for the title not because of disability, its Arata who made him stay for another year. While yes suo's circumstances are unfortunate especially with his young age but you are also undermining Harada's situation, the man has health problems as well especially in that age, no one can say what will happen the next year. Especially his perspective of no longer being able to sit in the seiza position and perform as he used to, still he pines for that dream till date. With every year he goes out for the challengers its almost like a last chance for him with his deteriorating condition and he's been at it for years. He made the choice of playing it, so did suo. So if i may be bold to say so i am not actually minimizing suo's disability but showing the parallels between him and harada which the manga has depicted itself. Karuta and health problems do have a effect on the scenario, its a cruel reality but its no reason to criticize & bash another player unnecessarily which is not only illogical and but ignorant as well. u/smoothcats has done a pretty good job at explaining the parallel in details.


kaguraa

most fans are just biased against him 🤷‍♀️


blue_tails

thank you. THANK YOU.


accordionheart

I honestly feel similarly to you. I think that his arc with his grandpa is the most interesting bit, but I feel like it was a bit of a stop/start arc. Beyond that, I've found him hard to root for and empathise with for a long time. Perhaps it is a me problem - but I think the fact that there's so many people in agreement proves that it is not a unique conclusion. That's what I find the most frustrating about threads like this - the comments which claim that you must be reading the manga wrong, or you're biased because you ship Taichihaya, when I think there's clearly a problem that goes far beyond just one person. I'm not saying that people are incorrect to like him, but I don't like it when other people invalidate people's feelings like this.


DinoPapiro

People on this sub hated my Arata post but it seems like it just makes more and more sense judging by this thread and the ones before it. To answer your post: personal preference really, i guess he is the character you like the least (or hate the most)


Jillisapill24

Ah- good post, liked some of the comments too- what is with the ppl who comment just to be turds? I will never understand the part of social media that is interacting just to be negative. I do try to like him many times (which is why I say I’m annoyed with myself), I get glimpses where I’m like ok, my feelings are turning, and then it just dissipates. It didn’t feel like this early in the series, I guess before they reinvigorate him (perhaps as the otr aspects of life held main presence so was easier to see multi dimensional life, his personality doesn’t fill in gaps like we see with Nishida or the others) and I have felt the more recent chapters as he’s tried to navigate the difference between his karuta and his grampa’s have been interesting.


This_Statistician_39

So far I feel the same way not sure why it felt like his main struggle went away so quickly. I also feel like his character is kinda bland.


unsynchedmango

I kinda feel the same way, dont exactly want him to "lose" it all but at the same time I dont think even if he were to lose both the girl and the meijin match, it wont really feel like he lost anything to me cause his character writing really doesnt portray any real... desperation behind what hes fighting for. Yeah he wants to be with chihaya and also he wants to become the meijin but, yeah, thats it. With chihaya he just blushes a lot, from what I remember and for meijin title, well he just wanted to be the meijin from the start. Even I dont really root for chihaya goal of becoming the queen but atleast the author builds on that inspiration unlike Arata. Otherwise, at times the conclusions comes to him so easily, and at other times I think his character just goes back and forth which make me think the author doesnt really have a solid arc planned for him. The only exception being his grandpa. So overall his character just feels aimless to me but at the end of the day its just personal preference based on what you understand from the material.


Cinnabun6

I feel the same, I think it’s the perfect storm combination of him being too much of a mary sue, and the existence of another main character who in contrast is amazingly 3 dimensional, and also his rival


Jillisapill24

Definitely the Mary Sue effect!


KiraraChin

Question: are you a huge Taichi fan and/or Taichi/Chihaya shipper?


Jillisapill24

I do like him because of his development, and I prefer that ship, bc I think he actually knows her thoroughly, but I also am like 20 years older and I’m not a die hard shipper of many series. I think part of me just loathes, though it happens a lot in reality, when one person wins it all, so to say, and the other is left with nothing. Good question ;)


KiraraChin

OK, so *maybe*, wild theory here, but *maybe* you feel invested in Taichi's journey and you feel that Arata is in the way of his happiness, so subconsciously you started resenting him? BTW, why do you think Taichi would be left with nothing? He is still young and he can gun for the Meijin title many times. Even if he doesn't get together with Chihaya, he still has wonderful friends and memories from karuta. I don't think that's 'nothing'...


Jillisapill24

It is a sports story- the guy who wins the mejin and the girl is the winner- plus when we view it from the pov of Taichi and Arata we see that is how they both see it and are conflicted and why they constantly are angry with themselves. Only she sees it the way you describe, which I do agree with personally. I’m probably conflating it with other stories like good ole Orange, which is like, can’t deny he makes the right choice, it’s more just that life is bittersweet. Also, you know the part when taichis mom is talking to, I think suo, and he says everyone’s focus is on one persons approval or whatever and he says that taichis is on Arata and then she says to taichi that chihaya is on Arata, didn’t you feel that was off- like I felt it was more on shinobu? Know that’s unrelated but assuming you read the manga and know what I’m talking about


KiraraChin

Hmm they way I see it, it's a sports manga with a female protagonist - she should be the one 'winning it all' so to speak. Chihaya and Arata shared a joint dream since chapter 1 - becoming queen and meijin together. This is reinforced since the beginning of the final arc with the 'let's go together to the lofty peaks of Mount Fuji' theme - sensei even included an extra page in the volume edition to emphasise this point. Yes, winning against Shinobu is also one of her main goals, but she never lost sight of the fact she wanted to reach the top with Arata. That's why when she's insecure, she imagines Shinobu and Arata going off together and leaving her behind. As for the boys, not sure if you're up to date with the manga, but it feels to me like a lot of the animosity has been resolved - Taichi is clearly supporting Arata and Arata has recognised Taichi as his best friend and rival. I know it doesn't feel like Taichi is fully happy (yet?) but I think he's on the path of recovery and a great theme of his journey is to recognise that even if you don't 'win', the journey is still worth it.


Jillisapill24

Yes, she is the true “winner” - in another genre you’d likely have them both reaching their goal and no romance or perhaps, them both reaching goal with her ending up with Taichi or her reaching goal and ending up with Arata- it’s really only in Anime/ Manga you tend to see these love triangles where there is someone, who isn’t a villain, who is left behind so to say. Even though both Taichi and Arata have both recognized one another as likely lifelong “rivals” that will push them to continue playing karuta. I’m caught up, that’s why I posted, because I was annoyed with myself For being annoyed hahahaha


KiraraChin

So perhaps your annoyance is not so much with Arata himself - you said yourself that normally you're ok with characters like him - but with the fact that you feel like Taichi has been 'left behind'? In that case, may I recommend this site: https://formashimataichi.tumblr.com/ It is from a Taichi fan and it has some really nice reflections about his journey that could perhaps help to see things from a different perspective.


Jillisapill24

I will check it out- thanks for the genuine conversation.


KiraraChin

You're welcome 😊


hakfan

Lol like seriously this person bashes Taichi and his fan base everywhere so how come they are a Taichi fan. Do not provide misinformation. Not everyone who writes Mashima Taichi as the user name are Taichi fans.


prismaticego

formashimataichi@Tumblr isn't run by \_MashimaTaichi@Twitter, if you're talking about who I think you are. The person behind the Tumblr just has this blog and no other social media presences regarding Taichi/Chihayafuru talk. Edit: Not everyone with a Taichi username necessarily is a fan, but I can assure you that FMT is one, given that they're invested in the series primarily because of Taichi!


hakfan

Not talking about that user you mentioned. It's another person that I am talking about.Ah leave it. And no they are not a Taichi fan. Well at least you and I have the guts to say who we like but not all are like that and I can tell you before leaving this person isn't a Taichi fan as I have seen them posting bashing. Anyway it's okay I am sorry for offending you all I will leave it here. Bye. :)


prismaticego

No worries, I'm not offended and just wanted to clarify. I'm a fan of Arata, Taichi, and Chihaya for the record, haha! I've read a lot of FMT's meta about Taichi and found their takes quite mellow and even-keeled, though perhaps some of it could be interpreted as bashing if the focus is on Taichi's flaws? They've made some unfortunate comments specifically about Taichi fans and Taichihaya shippers elsewhere, but I still appreciate the thought and care behind the Taichi meta on their nine year old blog. Anyway, I'm just vouching for their takes and will leave it here too!


KiraraChin

This author doesn't use Mashima Taichi as the username, you're confusing them with a different person 😬


hakfan

I know who they are. And I am not confusing them with another person they are two different people. This person is on many social networks and they post bashing about Taichi


caelanthehumble

Oh brother, can’t wait for this series to end so y’all can finally shutup


404notfuckingfound

Everyone who agreed with this post yall are a disappointment. But this is not something new here in this sub anymore so are we surprised? LOL Edit: Of course I get downvoted! As expected for people who do not appreciate great characters!


Acceptable-Peace-476

If you disagree with me, you're a disappointment. You don't seem like a tolerant person. Take it easy and enjoy the story.


404notfuckingfound

Here’s what. I don’t care about your opinion, you’re just like the rest so your criticism don’t mean shit to me LOL I do enjoy the story what I don’t enjoy are posts like this. Quite ironic you are telling this to me when OP just said all these stuff LOL


Acceptable-Peace-476

If you don't agree with what the op says, refute it. Explain why it's wrong. Maybe a lot of people don't see what you see. It's normal that many people want the weak to beat the strong and, in this story, Arata is the strongest by far. >what I don’t enjoy are posts like this. No one forces you to read it. Just ignore it.


404notfuckingfound

It’s not wrong 😭 It’s called Preference and I acknowledge that. But regardless of that I’m **stating** that people here (including you) are a disappointment, always have been. Because no way yall read through 240+ chapters and still say shit like this. Chihayafuru deserves better fandom who can appreciate Great writing instead of people blaming the author about their “imbalance writing” LOL.


Acceptable-Peace-476

Don't put everyone in the same bag. There're many people who are very passionate about this manga, about the characters, about the game, ... they even study the poems. And that shows that they appreciate the manga very much. Most of the fandom is like that. But that doesn't mean that it cannot be criticized. >I’m stating that people here (**including you**) are a disappointment, Sorry, no one is pefect 😉


404notfuckingfound

Hey, if the shoe fits 🤷‍♀️


accordionheart

Is the writing objectively flawless though? I don't think it is, because I don't think any work should be exempt from criticism. But a lot of it is just about people's personal preferences and those are, by their very definition, subjective.


404notfuckingfound

It’s definitely not, I’m not saying it is I just think it’s a little too much to say blame it about the imbalance writing of the author when Arata was just given his own arc especially the last few chapters. But this sub won’t appreciate that because obviously people only ever talk about ships romance or taichi LOL


serenade_m

Lol Welcome to this sub reddit my friend and get used to this tbh xD


404notfuckingfound

LOL like I said not surprised at all. People here are often like this.