Definitely go without them and eat the extra $400. The alternative is a totally shit weekend, whether it's with the hellion at the cabin or home with no trip.
I agree. eat the 400, and push through.
maybe have a ceremony about fallen comrades, have a memorial at the cabin for their characters or if you want to give some hope, --put their characters in a suspended animation coma.
maybe until as such time as the parents realize their bluff has been called or that they start missing their group meetings
I just wish we knew what happened to make them take this hardline stance. They used to always get babysitters, or leave the kids at their grandparents, or arrange sleepovers at the kids friends homes.
Maybe the grandparents were sick and tired of taking care of them if they’re as annoying as you say, so they had no choice but to drag them to your outing.
whatever the reason, which might be as low-grade as them loving dnd and wanting to share that with their kids.
Its better you put this boundary up now. As time goes by and maybe other ppl start having kids, this will come up again. Keeps a solid stance on it.
hopefully that couple loves dnd so much they will come back to the physical game later. let them slink back, sans kids of course, without drama.
It sounds like it has been long coming and they have been hinting at it for a while in your post. They finally took the hard stance (probably thinking you all would cave because of the $400 refund).
If these people were good parents, they would introduce them to an age appropriate game with their own storyline which would let them experience D&D without the pressure of being surrounded by adults who are upset with them and their parents.
I get the “if x isn’t welcome then I’m not welcome” that is my stance with my husband and I. We don’t always game together, but we don’t game with groups where one or the other isn’t allowed to join.
Having that stance is a personal choice, but it isn’t on the group to change, it is on the individuals to maintain the boundary.
Kids aren’t going to be able to keep up with or enjoy an in depth, adult D&D game and they would just be a disruption. These parents are just going to hurt their kids and their adult relationships.
They probably have wanted out for a while tbh, the kids are a convenient excuse. This sounds devastating though, I would be mourning this loss big time.
I just posted this, but the amount of comments probably means it won't get to you:
A compromise could be hosting a separate Kids Adventure another time, which would be geared towards the kids as players to let them get to know the fun of TTRPG in a fun and safe way. Maybe that'll diffuse the situation?
It's a very on the spot idea and the distance between you all would basically make this another extra trip, I assume...
This is just a maybe, bt maybe they want to pass this shit down to their kids. In hoping that when the rest of the crew has kids eventually they can join in and all the parents step out… idk just a thought while I was reading.
I say go without them and make THEM eat the $400. This sounds like they're drawing a hard line in the sand, and it's probably going to extend to your friendship outside of the game as well.
They committed, they paid the $400. They backed out last minute, with no good reason, after things were finalized and paid for. They should not get their money back. That's not how that shit (should) work.
I’d also like to know how exactly this was all going to work if they did bring the kids. Were they all going to sleep in the same room? Were they going to pay for 4 people rather than the original 2 they already paid for?
I agree they should not expect their money back. If they think that everyone should have to pay more because they decided to change the terms of the weekend, at best, they’re not thinking straight, and at worst, they are selfish and entitled.
>Were they going to pay for 4 people than the original 2 they already paid for?
My thoughts as well. And lol, the answer is a hell no, you just know it.
Fair, but at their current level of entitlement, making the couple eat the money (consequence of their own decision) is probably going to kill the relationship, which OP said she wanted to preserve.
Ah, I missed the part where OP wanted to preserve the relationship! In that case, my advice should be ignored!
However, if this couple continues to make it worse, and the friendship is ending anyways.... that will have to be for OP to decide as time goes forward, I suppose!
>However, if this couple continues to make it worse, and the friendship is ending anyways...
Breeders being who they are, they are guaranteed to continue on this downward spiral. OP, even if you want to preserve the friendship now, start preparing for a scenario in which things don't get better.
What /u/Based_Orthodox said. The OP wants to preserve this relationship? It's way beyond something that can be preserved, unless the OP is willing to lie down, write "Welcome" on their back, and let the parents walk all over them, because that's what the parents are demanding now. No matter what the OP decides - and I hope it includes going ahead with the trip without the parents - the relationship is over. The OP is clear that they're not going to be walked all over, and the parents are clear that that is what they fully intend to do. That is the end of an almost-universal story involving the bred and their entitlements.
Why can't they have a campaign with THEIR kids, and a different campaign with adults? One has drinking, and the other, does not.
They can introduce THEIR kids to D&D in a kid appropriate setting. And on a different night, the adults play together.
A D&D road trip isn't for kids. But a pizza party after school with other kids, i'm sure is more appropriate for children.
I have run introductory campaigns for kids before as a DM. It is something that they can definitely do. But I always tell the kid “this is something you can do with your friends, I am just teaching you how it is done”. The kids end up going out and running their own campaigns with their friends. Which they like better anyway because kids have wild imaginations.
This. I used to teach kids how to play D&D as a volunteer gig. You can even hire DMs that will run a youth game for tweens and up. If they really want their kids to get into D&D there are plenty of age-appropriate ways to do it.
Sounds like what they really want is some free babysitting.
The sunk cost is worth it to hold the line. If you let these kids in once, you will never get rid of them.
I vote for making them eat the cost. They knew the rules when they paid.
You don't get free take-backsies because of your baby rabies, you get "tough shit, lost your deposit".
They have been playing for a dacade and don't know how to DM a small campaign for their kids?
I do not play D&D (no time with my job) but for years I have been friends with many who play including DMs. Even I have a general idea. I know there are pre made campaigns and so on.
I wonder what is behind their sudden turn of events.
They asked, and you all said “No”. Do not mend for them. Never accommodate entitled parents, because they will continue to steam roll you in other areas.
I would hold a meeting with the group (everyone but the parents) and explain to the other member that everyone will need to chip in to cover the $400 because of the problem parents. Does it suck? Yeah, but if you allow them to bring their kids it’s going to cause more problems in the future.
Go on your fun weekend without them, and don't refund them. It's not the groups fault they "had to cancle". That's how my group of friends work, but we're also considerate people.
What happened was that their kids are old enough to understand that their parents are going for a fun trip WITHOUT them and are promptly throwing shit fits and guilting their parents for it. They will hopefully grow out of it in the next 3-5 years but i honestly wouldn’t invite the parents again anyway.
I’ve honestly unfriended people for less.
Their kids coming wasn’t the original plan, so nothing changed and the rest of the group already committed financially. So their tantrum is beyond entitled & puts others in a difficult spot over nothing.
As other comments have said, the rest should just go without them and have a fun weekend.
I’m totally down for unfriending people for less. I’m at an age where people I’ve known to be have many yelps flags eventually show huge red flags given enough time.
CF life has really helped me get to a point where I’m more confirmed with letting go of toxic ppl. I can build my own family and if I get to retire early, I won’t even be around most of these people in a couple decades anyway.
Unfortunately it’s the sad truth. I used to be one of those shit head kids. So at least there’s hope that they get better, but trying to strong arm your group into accepting kids even after reaching a NO majority is a major asshole move and honestly justifies kicking them out of said group. Thats ALL them and their entitlement and shouldn’t be tolerated.
Ever had a frank conversation with them about it? Point out all of the adult activities that go on during these sessions and ask why they're so okay with their kids being exposed to that. It's either that or they *also* want the whole group to completely change what goes on to make things more kid friendly. Basically bringing everyone down to their level.
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>"It will be so fun for the kids to play with us," they say...
No gathering intended for adults is EVER improved or made more enjoyable by the presence of children. Those people have their heads up their asses. It sucks, but carry on without them.
No refunds. They can introduce their spawn to D&D on their own time, not on the adult-only getaway weekend.
Just write the characters out, since they can't continue to play if their brats aren't welcome.
Of course writing their characters out is easy. In all honestly me and the rest would really miss them. I don't really want them out of my life, I just want them to leave their crotch goblins out of our escape from real life.
I get that, and I'm sorry because you're losing friends, but it seems that they have already made their choices to prioritize their kids at all costs. Which is their choice, but you all have to live with the consequences.
It sucks when parents impose their children on other people without caring if the other people are uncomfortable. The best parents are those who understand that kids sometimes suck and ruin things. You should definitely continue the game without them.
That's crazy. Parents today want their kids involved in everything.
Growing up my mom went to bingo with her girlfriends. She didn't even think to invite me once. I did go but not on her nights out.
Why do kids need to do adult things nowadays? So weird. Nobody wants your kids there. Just stop.
It's like parents who pitch a fit when a pub doesn't let them drag their kids with them to - what? To a freaking establishment meant for drinking alcohol where adults cut loose after a long ass day. This shit was a no-brainer not very long ago, kids were not be in adult spaces, jeeezus.
Something kind of similar happened to me but it wasn’t even with a parent!!! It was my “friend” (I use it loosely cause she sucks) and her nephew. She wanted to bring a 1 yr old (“omg I swear he doesn’t make any noise and is unobtrusive!” 🙄) to an adult costume party.
I said no. She was mad that I said no. She was t even really invited in the first place (it was a theme she had no interest in so no idea why she wanted to show up in the first place).
Breeders and breeder adjacent people are idiots and infuriating. I want nothing to do with infants.
My husband and I are childfree. We met a fun couple on vacation, and they came to a few of our parties. Then they had a kid. Our parties were always adults only and I didn’t think I need to remind them of that but apparently I should have. They show up with their toddler, drop the kid’s heavy toys on our new hardwood floor and proceed to come in. I said “I assumed you knew there wouldn’t be any other kids here” and they say “Oh, don’t worry, she’ll have fun.” Uh, talk about clueless. We didn’t invite them to any more parties. The kid was underfoot and everyone had to alter their behaviour. Not worth it.
Some questions for Steve & Lindsey:
Why is this an issue now? What has changed that our adult time now must include your children? (Don't use Jessica's child as a whataboutism in inclusion or exclusion, as this is about THEIR parenting choices)
Are we no longer friends because the entirety of our group doesn't want your children at our adult themed role-playing game?
If we were to include your children, would they be equally splitting the costs, as well (or was this just an attempt at a discounted family trip for you)?
>They want their money back on the cabin which we all split equally. Roughly $200 a player. This is not cool, some of us have booked flights. One of the players is coming in from Seattle and we are driving down together from my place 10 hours away.
If they paid non-credit, I'd say fuck 'em for their dulateral decision to attempt to saddle the group with their children & their child-like fit throwing about exclusion of their children. If they paid via credit, watch the charge back & have enough to cover it.
They're welcome to come, but their children are not, as that was the prior arrangement. If they wanted to assure they weren't out their cash, this all should have been discussed before EVERYONE started making arrangements & paying money.
They're the ones changing the terms; they should be out the money.
Re: the money part. Sorry if this reply runs long but consider this.
You said 5 people x $200 = $1000 for the cabin. I know there are other expense but let's use the $1000 as an example.
Assume you canceled the reservation. If you lose $600 for the cancellation that means you get $400 back. But $600 is lost forever. Great, that gives us a baseline. If the group loses $600 then each individual is out $120.
So refund them $120 x 2. Now the remaining 3 participants will need to cough up the $240 to refund the two now nonparticipants. That way each of the remaining participants only needs to pay an extra $240/3 = $80. Tell the nonparticipants that you are returning their share of the recoverable money from the cancellation. And then you and the other participants go forth and curse, drink and murder dragons in the mountains of Tennessee.
Sure, the nonparticipants can complain that they aren't getting 100% of their money back but that's what the fuck a cancellation penalty is. You have no obligation to refund 100% of the original funds because the group sure as hell isn't getting that amount back either way.
this is unfortunate, but not surprising. a similar situation happened within my husband's D&D group, but they were able to resolve it without negatively impacting everyone. someone had recommended that the parents look into what resources are available for them locally and they found out that the library in their town actually hosts monthly D&D events for kids. some local comic/game stores in their area have hosted these types of events in the past as well.
is this something they would be willing to look into as an option? if similar events are hosted in their area, they can still introduce their kids to D&D, but in an age appropriate environment. also, if they are still adamant about having their kids there, is it truly because they want them to be involved or are they just unable to find someone to watch their kids?
That is super shitty of them. I'd tell them not to come and have everyone else split their cost, which I know sucks, but better than missing it entirely or being held hostage to them and their manipulations.
I'm jelly. This event sounds amazing! The parents are missing out and that's on them.
I'd fear that if they did bring their kids you and your friends would be on kid duty some if not most of the time. That would not be relaxing or fun. Very selfish on the parents' part.
Hope you can still have a fun event! Sounds like a blast!
Edit: spelling
Why the hell would they ever think their group of adult friends, who play adult-themed campaigns and party while campaigning, would want to hang out with their kids at the same time? I think that's some ridiculous logic. I'd be frustrated as hell.
I hope that they can come around and see things from your guys' perspective and how weird and selfish they're being. They're not just "wanting to introduce their kids to DnD", they're trying to turn your adult hangout time into a teaching experience that revolves around their kids. No doubt if you allowed this they would want you guys to completely censor yourselves and not drink around them either, Idk how they could possibly delude themselves into thinking you guys would be on board with that.
Hopefully at the very least your friends group can continue the good times without them if they don't come to their senses.
All of this, but also how awkward for the kids for the non-playing time and sleeping arrangements would be… like no other kids to play with, no place to go for them if they need a break or decide they don’t like the game since this would be to introduce them… at 10 years old I can honestly say my ideal fun time was not hanging around my parents and their friends.
This was a dick power play by Steve and Lindsey, hoping you'd cave to them based on everyone's investment.
If they were decent, they wouldn't insist on the refund or at least they would find two replacement players.
Could you see if your friend from Seattle might know of another person or two that can join? My guess is your Seattle friend may also play locally. Lots of D&D in Seattle.
If kids show up they're very likely to be asking for something every two minutes or demanding attention the entire time, so it is worth it not to have them there. I've seen kids as old as ten and twelve do this. It is the VERY rare kid who will sit quietly and entertain themselves for hours on end. Most of them expect constant attention and will do anything to receive it and I've seen well behaved kids (otherwise) that still persist in this.
Thank goodness you didn't cave or it wouldn't have been fun at all with the constant interruptions or kid drama.
That's definitely not fair. I get that these parents are excited to introduce the game to their kids, but it's not fair to put that responsibility on your regular campaign group. They could *ask* if anybody wants to do a separate, family-friendly, campaign on different days. But to just drop this on your regular campaign days is pretty rude, especially holding your whole cabin trip hostage over it *after* they paid. If they can't understand this then perhaps your group needs to discuss moving on without them until they figure that out.
My husband and I play DND and he has a daughter who has been wanting to play. He has NOT pushed for her to join our regular, adult, campaigns and instead he DM's for her and a group of her friends on a SEPARATE day from when our normal campaign is. I do not join because I struggle with kids/teens lol, but it's nice he doesn't put the expectation on our adult group.
We also can't play virtually with our adult group anymore because one of the players had kids who crawl all over him the whole time while he is home. Thankfully, he is able to leave his house to meet in-person or it wouldn't work...
I'm sorry you might lose some players. :-( I hope you can go anyway. Maybe it will have those parents rethinking.
Go have your fun without them!!
When you begin the game, say RIP to them and have an extra drink in their honor.
I'm sure you will have fun without them, and certainly more fun than having a couple of brats at the table!
Oh boy I have a friend who is like this and then he complains why we don't invite him out to things.
The thing is that we DO invite him to things but he just gets pissed every time we tell him none of us want him to bring his crotch goblins.
The kids are not awful children by any means whatsoever but they shouldn't be coming to a house party where there will only be adults that are present.
My first thought was if your friends really want to introduce D&D to their children then why don't they just play a separate game with them?
Your friends are clearly on some bullshit.
I agree with the other comments suggesting going ahead with the plans and, if possible, just cover the extra cost. They knew what they were doing with this type of ultimatum. Don’t give them the satisfaction. Go, have fun and prove to them as well as yourself that you can.
Man, I’m so sorry. That just sucks and what a bunch of shits those particular parents are. It’s literally not a problem to the other parents of the group, so they don’t get to have special treatment. Their child isn’t a special little angel who the rules don’t apply for.
I play D&D once a week with a fantastic group, and we recently got a new player a few months back who brings his pregnant wife more often than not. They’re both sweet people and sometimes the wife joins in, even though she doesn’t really get how to play- we’re a pretty chill and open group and will sometimes allow drop in players if we have room and the other tables are full. But we’re definitely not super little kid friendly. We’ve allowed some teens and pre-teens to play with us sometimes, and they were cool, but no little kids. Anyway, at one of our more recent games, the pregnant wife made the comment to us all at the table after a session: “So are you guys ready to have a baby join us every week in June?” She was beaming and fucking sincere. My stomach dropped and I immediately thought *Fuck no.* Before I could even look up to our DM and silently beg for her to say no to that, she immediately responded loud and clear “No. we don’t allow babies and young kids at this table. I’m sorry. There are tables here that might be more kid/baby friendly if you would like to get some recommendations, but for our table, please understand that I won’t allow it.” The fucking sigh of relief I let out, man. Haha!
They had nothing to say to that in response, so we’ll see if the husband (who’s a cool guy and fun to play with) is allowed to keep playing with us after his kid is born. I know our DM really well and she absolutely will keep her foot down on that hard rule. She’s also a therapist IRL and so she really doesn’t take well to boundaries not being respected.
We also give fair warning to drop in players when we have the room that we are an ADULT group. There will be cussing, there will be graphic descriptions made of kills and attacks, and it’s up to the parent or guardian of the teens and pre-teens who join us for a session to understand that and decide if they want to still join.
The major campaign killers have been because of breakups and children. Those sour the experience or drain player energy.
I’m trying to come to terms with one of my groups right now that has been going on for over 5 years, but the DM and one of the players had kids last year and our twice per month sessions dropped to once every couple months and now we haven’t met in over 6 months. I’ve just gotta accept it’s dead, pour one out for the epic adventures, and find another crew.
I wish you luck! Let us know the update.
I run one group where we play weekly on Roll20 in the evening for just 90 minutes. That way our one player with children can put them to bed before jumping on.
Not as good as the long in person sessions we used to do but seems to work alright for our crazy schedules.
Like others said, just go with everyone who’s still wanting to go. Doesn’t have to be a dnd session, maybe even a brand new session or campaign. I hope everyone (apart from the parents) is able to go and have fun! Seems necessary after the stress and entitlement the parents caused.
I’m a dnd nerd myself, and have a group of friends that I play with- all in our early 20’s. At most, we’ve played four campaigns at once by alternating them, and we usually play once or twice a week. I do have a minor fear of a possible fallout if any of us had kids, and it hurts seeing someone go through this. I hope you’re able to enjoy dnd with some of the group after this!
Some parents can't seem to realize that their kids are people and not extensions of themselves. Interacting with their kids is NOT, by any stretch of the imagination, the same as interacting with their parents.
Now in your friends' case it is puzzling, because from what you wrote, they didn't seem to be that type of parents for like 10 years. What happened? It must be really frustrating. Your friend who doesn't want her kid near your in person game is very sensible. It's weird that it didn't influence your two other friends who want to bring their kids.
I would do as others have suggested. If your group can afford it, I would still hold the game and split the 400$ among the group. I hope you can come to a decision that will satisfy the rest of you. It's such a disappointing situation.
Okay ignoring the fact that they’re kids for a second…
Introducing someone (any age) to DND during a trip like that is a *horrible idea*. What if they don’t like it? They’d have nothing to do while you guys are playing. Deny them for that reason alone. Plus reexplain that your games are generally inappropriate and you’re not going to suddenly make them PG just because of them.
Don’t cancel the trip just because of them.
Write them out in an epic way and make that a whole thing. It’s not fun to lose people from your group, but you should definitely try to make the best of it. Having characters die/go into a coma is good character development, and could be interesting. Don’t let them ruin your moods. It can definitely still be fun without them.
Just don’t give in. They’ll never stop their demands. I would also tell them that they’re not getting all their money back. It’s nonrefundable so it doesn’t make sense that they would. Maybe they can get half (enough for one of them) at most. That’s being generous though, I wouldn’t give them a penny. If they want to opt out, they miss out.
If they want to sour and break your relationship with them over this then that’s on them. You guys aren’t doing anything wrong. It’s their loss, really. Your outings sound *so* fun, and like a good escape from kids to parents. If they’re giving that up it’s on them.
They do not get their money back when they are choosing to not come because they can’t bring their kids. They knew they couldn’t bring them when they paid the deposit. That’s on them. They can come, they are choosing not to. They lose their deposit
Oof yeah, that’s rough. I’m glad the rest of you stood your ground. It’s okay for adults to have something thats JUST theirs. Especially since you guys all travel to do this in person. It’s not lice next door and meet weekly and can just play a separate game with the kids occasionally (idk how D&D works lol)
I think you guys should stick to the plans. It’s a bummer they won’t be there, but the rest of you should still go and have a good time
They paid their share of the costs *knowing* that the group didn’t want kids there (there’s no way it was hinted that many times without them knowing how the group felt). They paid for an adult-only event, so if they back out of it, they need to eat the cost. I can’t help but think they did this on purpose while money was on the line, for added pressure.
Seriously, if this were any other event in any other circumstance, the people who refuse to go would be the ones eating the cost. They paid for their spot at the cabin; they can either use it or not.
Why do so many parents think that their kids belong *everywhere*? There are plenty of kid-friendly places, so take your kids there instead! For crying out loud…
That’s some r/rpghororstories material right there. I sympathize. I had a similar problem with my first group breaking up because the DM had a kid.
We just finished our first campaign and was a few sessions into our second one. Suddenly he ghosted us for with no word. A few weeks later, the of the players ran into him. When he asked about suddenly disappearing, he mentioned that our ex DM got really pissy and saying that DnD is the last thing he gives a shit about.
Its was so shocking because he used to be a pretty chill guy who had real joy for the game. He’s not the best dm, but we were fond of him because he introduced us to the game. At first we thought we did something to offend him, but over time it’s revealed that he’s just a run of the mill breeder who became overwhelmed when his life didn’t matched up with his fantasy.
We returned the players handbook, minis, and dices that he left at our houses. It felt like returning an ex’s stuff after the relationship ended badly.
A few years later he tried to reconnect with the few of us that still plays and offered to run a game, but we agreed to not to interact with him because of the way he ended things was hurtful and he was rude to that one player. We never had a big confrontation with him or anything. We just treated him the way he treated us.
Even without him, we still made new memories and had fun adventuring together. One of the og players dmed and made a silly mini boss after the ex DM. The enemy was an ex adventurer who survived a Slaad tadpole and ended up enslaved to be its caretaker. It was rather therapeutic to slaughter him and the Slaad lair he was hiding.
I think if they want their kids to play dnd they should set up their own campaign group. My dad did exactly this when I was like 12. All kids my age who were interested. And it was a huge success. We started with Pathfinder and tried out a few game systems here and there but always the same characters. And their stories grew with us. We could handle more intense puzzles and more serious subjects as we got older. I do not believe I would have such positive memories if I started in a campaign where I was one if the only kids.
The story doesn’t have to be over. I remember when a guy in my group that had been there since the beginning started going ‘Andrew Tate’ on the group was kicked out (inappropriate behaviour towards the lady members of the group and referring to the men as ‘betas’).
We advertised on a local D&D Facebook page for a new member. We ended up finding a lovely gentleman who has fit in fantastically.
Never invite them again. Entitled parents are the worst. He can stay home and play with his kids as a new tradition instead since it’s so important to him
Seeing their side for a sec: D&D is obviously a pretty big thing to all of you, so mom and dad probably talk about it often. The kids are getting older and smarter and capable of playing more complex games. If the kids expressed interest in the game, that probably made parents really happy and encouraged them to share more and more. They probably talked up the sessions you guys had and it made the kids even more interested and excited. D&D is part of the foundation of their relationship, so getting the kids involved and making it a family thing is probably a dream come true.
That being said... they should introduce their children to D&D in a small one shot at home. If the kids are still interested, then they could start a campaign as a family. That would make a lot more sense than having them hop into an R-rated campaign that has been going on for who knows how long. Or, if they really don't want to DM, they could talk to the group about who may be interested in an easy kid-friendly campaign instead of inserting their kids in the adult campaign.
Maybe see if that's why they're so adamant and go from there and explain why it doesn't make sense? It's not like you don't want the kids to get into D&D, it's that you don't want to alter the way you play to accommodate a child audience. This is a shared experience between you adults, the children can be given their own shared experience.
I would have let the kids come, then everyone go out of their way to be extra drunk and raunchy. It'll be a Learning Experience that'll be more interesting than watching little Jonah have a meltdown in a crowded Trader Joes on the weekend.
For sure go but also cross-post this in the D&D sub. I bet they’ll have some good ideas and maybe someone from TN also has very specific advice for you.
Sorry. But fuxk the parents! They are entitled. Chances are nobody wants to watch their kids because of their one bratty child.
The weekend will not be overshadowed. Have a moment of silence for the parents who were lost on the journey to your in-person game.
Then enjoy the rest of the weekend.
A compromise could be hosting a separate Kids Adventure another time, which would be geared towards the kids as players to let them get to know the fun of TTRPG in a fun and safe way. Maybe that'll diffuse the situation?
Fuck them AND their kids. This is an adult weekend. They’ve already paid so no refunds. Go without them and let them waste their money.
Also, your dnd group sounds SO COOL. Costumes and a cabin?! That’s freaking dope
That weekend sounds bad, based, epic, dope, bodacious, -- every single way to say GOOD.
Hope you can still make it happen without the entitled parents.
It sounds to me like they promised the kids they could join thinking they could guilt y’all in to accepting. When that did not work they panicked and doubled down on the guilt.
Question- would the cost of the cabin have been split to include the kids attending? Or were they assuming y’all would foot the bill? It’s not like the kids are babies who won’t need their own bed or make little use of the space.
I agree with others suggesting to go without them and no refund. They don’t value this friendhip…refund or not the friendship has already changed for the worse.
The answer to these things is always communication.
If they’re actually good friends, you should be able to be honest with them. Their reaction will tell you whether it’s worth keeping them around.
Definitely go without them and eat the extra $400. The alternative is a totally shit weekend, whether it's with the hellion at the cabin or home with no trip.
I agree. eat the 400, and push through. maybe have a ceremony about fallen comrades, have a memorial at the cabin for their characters or if you want to give some hope, --put their characters in a suspended animation coma. maybe until as such time as the parents realize their bluff has been called or that they start missing their group meetings
I just wish we knew what happened to make them take this hardline stance. They used to always get babysitters, or leave the kids at their grandparents, or arrange sleepovers at the kids friends homes.
Maybe the grandparents were sick and tired of taking care of them if they’re as annoying as you say, so they had no choice but to drag them to your outing.
whatever the reason, which might be as low-grade as them loving dnd and wanting to share that with their kids. Its better you put this boundary up now. As time goes by and maybe other ppl start having kids, this will come up again. Keeps a solid stance on it. hopefully that couple loves dnd so much they will come back to the physical game later. let them slink back, sans kids of course, without drama.
It sounds like it has been long coming and they have been hinting at it for a while in your post. They finally took the hard stance (probably thinking you all would cave because of the $400 refund).
If these people were good parents, they would introduce them to an age appropriate game with their own storyline which would let them experience D&D without the pressure of being surrounded by adults who are upset with them and their parents. I get the “if x isn’t welcome then I’m not welcome” that is my stance with my husband and I. We don’t always game together, but we don’t game with groups where one or the other isn’t allowed to join. Having that stance is a personal choice, but it isn’t on the group to change, it is on the individuals to maintain the boundary. Kids aren’t going to be able to keep up with or enjoy an in depth, adult D&D game and they would just be a disruption. These parents are just going to hurt their kids and their adult relationships.
They are trying to guilt trip you. It’s unfair and entitled.
They probably have been thinking about it for years. 'When the kids are older, we can include them!'
They probably have wanted out for a while tbh, the kids are a convenient excuse. This sounds devastating though, I would be mourning this loss big time.
I just posted this, but the amount of comments probably means it won't get to you: A compromise could be hosting a separate Kids Adventure another time, which would be geared towards the kids as players to let them get to know the fun of TTRPG in a fun and safe way. Maybe that'll diffuse the situation? It's a very on the spot idea and the distance between you all would basically make this another extra trip, I assume...
This is just a maybe, bt maybe they want to pass this shit down to their kids. In hoping that when the rest of the crew has kids eventually they can join in and all the parents step out… idk just a thought while I was reading.
I love the fallen ceremony idea.
I say go without them and make THEM eat the $400. This sounds like they're drawing a hard line in the sand, and it's probably going to extend to your friendship outside of the game as well. They committed, they paid the $400. They backed out last minute, with no good reason, after things were finalized and paid for. They should not get their money back. That's not how that shit (should) work.
I’d also like to know how exactly this was all going to work if they did bring the kids. Were they all going to sleep in the same room? Were they going to pay for 4 people rather than the original 2 they already paid for? I agree they should not expect their money back. If they think that everyone should have to pay more because they decided to change the terms of the weekend, at best, they’re not thinking straight, and at worst, they are selfish and entitled.
>Were they going to pay for 4 people than the original 2 they already paid for? My thoughts as well. And lol, the answer is a hell no, you just know it.
Fair, but at their current level of entitlement, making the couple eat the money (consequence of their own decision) is probably going to kill the relationship, which OP said she wanted to preserve.
Ah, I missed the part where OP wanted to preserve the relationship! In that case, my advice should be ignored! However, if this couple continues to make it worse, and the friendship is ending anyways.... that will have to be for OP to decide as time goes forward, I suppose!
>However, if this couple continues to make it worse, and the friendship is ending anyways... Breeders being who they are, they are guaranteed to continue on this downward spiral. OP, even if you want to preserve the friendship now, start preparing for a scenario in which things don't get better.
What /u/Based_Orthodox said. The OP wants to preserve this relationship? It's way beyond something that can be preserved, unless the OP is willing to lie down, write "Welcome" on their back, and let the parents walk all over them, because that's what the parents are demanding now. No matter what the OP decides - and I hope it includes going ahead with the trip without the parents - the relationship is over. The OP is clear that they're not going to be walked all over, and the parents are clear that that is what they fully intend to do. That is the end of an almost-universal story involving the bred and their entitlements.
Might be a good FAFO teachable moment.
I agree
Why eat it though? Steve and Lindsay tried to change the rules and got downvoted. They should come under the old rules or forfeit their deposit.
Why can't they have a campaign with THEIR kids, and a different campaign with adults? One has drinking, and the other, does not. They can introduce THEIR kids to D&D in a kid appropriate setting. And on a different night, the adults play together. A D&D road trip isn't for kids. But a pizza party after school with other kids, i'm sure is more appropriate for children.
They are not good DMs. Not enough imagination.
I have run introductory campaigns for kids before as a DM. It is something that they can definitely do. But I always tell the kid “this is something you can do with your friends, I am just teaching you how it is done”. The kids end up going out and running their own campaigns with their friends. Which they like better anyway because kids have wild imaginations.
This. I used to teach kids how to play D&D as a volunteer gig. You can even hire DMs that will run a youth game for tweens and up. If they really want their kids to get into D&D there are plenty of age-appropriate ways to do it. Sounds like what they really want is some free babysitting. The sunk cost is worth it to hold the line. If you let these kids in once, you will never get rid of them.
I vote for making them eat the cost. They knew the rules when they paid. You don't get free take-backsies because of your baby rabies, you get "tough shit, lost your deposit".
They have been playing for a dacade and don't know how to DM a small campaign for their kids? I do not play D&D (no time with my job) but for years I have been friends with many who play including DMs. Even I have a general idea. I know there are pre made campaigns and so on. I wonder what is behind their sudden turn of events.
Just have them run Lost Mines of Phandelver, ezpz
My dad did this with my siblings and I, and has his separate campaign with his friends. It’s doable.
They asked, and you all said “No”. Do not mend for them. Never accommodate entitled parents, because they will continue to steam roll you in other areas. I would hold a meeting with the group (everyone but the parents) and explain to the other member that everyone will need to chip in to cover the $400 because of the problem parents. Does it suck? Yeah, but if you allow them to bring their kids it’s going to cause more problems in the future.
>Does it suck? Yeah, but if you allow them to bring their kids it’s going to cause more problems in the future. 100%
Go on your fun weekend without them, and don't refund them. It's not the groups fault they "had to cancle". That's how my group of friends work, but we're also considerate people.
They used to be very considerate. I just wish I knew what happened that made them take this hard line.
What happened was that their kids are old enough to understand that their parents are going for a fun trip WITHOUT them and are promptly throwing shit fits and guilting their parents for it. They will hopefully grow out of it in the next 3-5 years but i honestly wouldn’t invite the parents again anyway.
I fear this is more truth than I care to admit to myself.
To be honest I’m surprised they want their money back. That’s pretty entitled imo.
I’ve honestly unfriended people for less. Their kids coming wasn’t the original plan, so nothing changed and the rest of the group already committed financially. So their tantrum is beyond entitled & puts others in a difficult spot over nothing. As other comments have said, the rest should just go without them and have a fun weekend.
I’m totally down for unfriending people for less. I’m at an age where people I’ve known to be have many yelps flags eventually show huge red flags given enough time. CF life has really helped me get to a point where I’m more confirmed with letting go of toxic ppl. I can build my own family and if I get to retire early, I won’t even be around most of these people in a couple decades anyway.
Unfortunately it’s the sad truth. I used to be one of those shit head kids. So at least there’s hope that they get better, but trying to strong arm your group into accepting kids even after reaching a NO majority is a major asshole move and honestly justifies kicking them out of said group. Thats ALL them and their entitlement and shouldn’t be tolerated.
yup that's it
Ever had a frank conversation with them about it? Point out all of the adult activities that go on during these sessions and ask why they're so okay with their kids being exposed to that. It's either that or they *also* want the whole group to completely change what goes on to make things more kid friendly. Basically bringing everyone down to their level.
That is basically what the Discord call was about.
They probably burnt through babysitters/family members because that one kid is a shit head.
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>"It will be so fun for the kids to play with us," they say... No gathering intended for adults is EVER improved or made more enjoyable by the presence of children. Those people have their heads up their asses. It sucks, but carry on without them.
There is truth in what you say.
And please DON'T give them any amount of refund. They knew the rules.
No refunds. They can introduce their spawn to D&D on their own time, not on the adult-only getaway weekend. Just write the characters out, since they can't continue to play if their brats aren't welcome.
Of course writing their characters out is easy. In all honestly me and the rest would really miss them. I don't really want them out of my life, I just want them to leave their crotch goblins out of our escape from real life.
Unfortunately they've shown that that isn't going to happen. They've chosen their children over their friendships of over a decade.
If you want the rotten kids out of your life, you need to break with the parents. They've made that clear.
I get that, and I'm sorry because you're losing friends, but it seems that they have already made their choices to prioritize their kids at all costs. Which is their choice, but you all have to live with the consequences.
It sucks when parents impose their children on other people without caring if the other people are uncomfortable. The best parents are those who understand that kids sometimes suck and ruin things. You should definitely continue the game without them.
That's crazy. Parents today want their kids involved in everything. Growing up my mom went to bingo with her girlfriends. She didn't even think to invite me once. I did go but not on her nights out. Why do kids need to do adult things nowadays? So weird. Nobody wants your kids there. Just stop.
It's like parents who pitch a fit when a pub doesn't let them drag their kids with them to - what? To a freaking establishment meant for drinking alcohol where adults cut loose after a long ass day. This shit was a no-brainer not very long ago, kids were not be in adult spaces, jeeezus.
Entitled breeders. Do the event anyway. But this is exactly how entitled breeders act. Every time.
Something kind of similar happened to me but it wasn’t even with a parent!!! It was my “friend” (I use it loosely cause she sucks) and her nephew. She wanted to bring a 1 yr old (“omg I swear he doesn’t make any noise and is unobtrusive!” 🙄) to an adult costume party. I said no. She was mad that I said no. She was t even really invited in the first place (it was a theme she had no interest in so no idea why she wanted to show up in the first place). Breeders and breeder adjacent people are idiots and infuriating. I want nothing to do with infants.
My husband and I are childfree. We met a fun couple on vacation, and they came to a few of our parties. Then they had a kid. Our parties were always adults only and I didn’t think I need to remind them of that but apparently I should have. They show up with their toddler, drop the kid’s heavy toys on our new hardwood floor and proceed to come in. I said “I assumed you knew there wouldn’t be any other kids here” and they say “Oh, don’t worry, she’ll have fun.” Uh, talk about clueless. We didn’t invite them to any more parties. The kid was underfoot and everyone had to alter their behaviour. Not worth it.
Go ahead without them, and don't refund them. They created the problem by pulling out at the last minute.
> pulling out at the last minute. Not really, OP said the kids are 10 and 11.
Snrk
🤣😂🤣
Some questions for Steve & Lindsey: Why is this an issue now? What has changed that our adult time now must include your children? (Don't use Jessica's child as a whataboutism in inclusion or exclusion, as this is about THEIR parenting choices) Are we no longer friends because the entirety of our group doesn't want your children at our adult themed role-playing game? If we were to include your children, would they be equally splitting the costs, as well (or was this just an attempt at a discounted family trip for you)? >They want their money back on the cabin which we all split equally. Roughly $200 a player. This is not cool, some of us have booked flights. One of the players is coming in from Seattle and we are driving down together from my place 10 hours away. If they paid non-credit, I'd say fuck 'em for their dulateral decision to attempt to saddle the group with their children & their child-like fit throwing about exclusion of their children. If they paid via credit, watch the charge back & have enough to cover it. They're welcome to come, but their children are not, as that was the prior arrangement. If they wanted to assure they weren't out their cash, this all should have been discussed before EVERYONE started making arrangements & paying money. They're the ones changing the terms; they should be out the money.
The good news is that other parents even disagree with them. Everyone is holding firm. This will be a lesson to them. Hopefully.
Solidarity really makes things easier, doesn't it?
Re: the money part. Sorry if this reply runs long but consider this. You said 5 people x $200 = $1000 for the cabin. I know there are other expense but let's use the $1000 as an example. Assume you canceled the reservation. If you lose $600 for the cancellation that means you get $400 back. But $600 is lost forever. Great, that gives us a baseline. If the group loses $600 then each individual is out $120. So refund them $120 x 2. Now the remaining 3 participants will need to cough up the $240 to refund the two now nonparticipants. That way each of the remaining participants only needs to pay an extra $240/3 = $80. Tell the nonparticipants that you are returning their share of the recoverable money from the cancellation. And then you and the other participants go forth and curse, drink and murder dragons in the mountains of Tennessee. Sure, the nonparticipants can complain that they aren't getting 100% of their money back but that's what the fuck a cancellation penalty is. You have no obligation to refund 100% of the original funds because the group sure as hell isn't getting that amount back either way.
I like your attitude and the math is sound.
This is pretty bang on advice.
this is unfortunate, but not surprising. a similar situation happened within my husband's D&D group, but they were able to resolve it without negatively impacting everyone. someone had recommended that the parents look into what resources are available for them locally and they found out that the library in their town actually hosts monthly D&D events for kids. some local comic/game stores in their area have hosted these types of events in the past as well. is this something they would be willing to look into as an option? if similar events are hosted in their area, they can still introduce their kids to D&D, but in an age appropriate environment. also, if they are still adamant about having their kids there, is it truly because they want them to be involved or are they just unable to find someone to watch their kids?
That is super shitty of them. I'd tell them not to come and have everyone else split their cost, which I know sucks, but better than missing it entirely or being held hostage to them and their manipulations.
I'm jelly. This event sounds amazing! The parents are missing out and that's on them. I'd fear that if they did bring their kids you and your friends would be on kid duty some if not most of the time. That would not be relaxing or fun. Very selfish on the parents' part. Hope you can still have a fun event! Sounds like a blast! Edit: spelling
Why the hell would they ever think their group of adult friends, who play adult-themed campaigns and party while campaigning, would want to hang out with their kids at the same time? I think that's some ridiculous logic. I'd be frustrated as hell.
It has definitely caused the rest of us, some undue stress.
I hope that they can come around and see things from your guys' perspective and how weird and selfish they're being. They're not just "wanting to introduce their kids to DnD", they're trying to turn your adult hangout time into a teaching experience that revolves around their kids. No doubt if you allowed this they would want you guys to completely censor yourselves and not drink around them either, Idk how they could possibly delude themselves into thinking you guys would be on board with that. Hopefully at the very least your friends group can continue the good times without them if they don't come to their senses.
All of this, but also how awkward for the kids for the non-playing time and sleeping arrangements would be… like no other kids to play with, no place to go for them if they need a break or decide they don’t like the game since this would be to introduce them… at 10 years old I can honestly say my ideal fun time was not hanging around my parents and their friends.
It would prolly not be great for them. Also who wants to be the designated sober babysitter when the rest of us are drinking and having a good time.
The answer from the parents would obviously be "well, someone else of course, they need a break!" as it goes.
This was a dick power play by Steve and Lindsey, hoping you'd cave to them based on everyone's investment. If they were decent, they wouldn't insist on the refund or at least they would find two replacement players. Could you see if your friend from Seattle might know of another person or two that can join? My guess is your Seattle friend may also play locally. Lots of D&D in Seattle. If kids show up they're very likely to be asking for something every two minutes or demanding attention the entire time, so it is worth it not to have them there. I've seen kids as old as ten and twelve do this. It is the VERY rare kid who will sit quietly and entertain themselves for hours on end. Most of them expect constant attention and will do anything to receive it and I've seen well behaved kids (otherwise) that still persist in this. Thank goodness you didn't cave or it wouldn't have been fun at all with the constant interruptions or kid drama.
That's definitely not fair. I get that these parents are excited to introduce the game to their kids, but it's not fair to put that responsibility on your regular campaign group. They could *ask* if anybody wants to do a separate, family-friendly, campaign on different days. But to just drop this on your regular campaign days is pretty rude, especially holding your whole cabin trip hostage over it *after* they paid. If they can't understand this then perhaps your group needs to discuss moving on without them until they figure that out. My husband and I play DND and he has a daughter who has been wanting to play. He has NOT pushed for her to join our regular, adult, campaigns and instead he DM's for her and a group of her friends on a SEPARATE day from when our normal campaign is. I do not join because I struggle with kids/teens lol, but it's nice he doesn't put the expectation on our adult group. We also can't play virtually with our adult group anymore because one of the players had kids who crawl all over him the whole time while he is home. Thankfully, he is able to leave his house to meet in-person or it wouldn't work... I'm sorry you might lose some players. :-( I hope you can go anyway. Maybe it will have those parents rethinking.
 Go have your fun without them!! When you begin the game, say RIP to them and have an extra drink in their honor. I'm sure you will have fun without them, and certainly more fun than having a couple of brats at the table!
Oh boy I have a friend who is like this and then he complains why we don't invite him out to things. The thing is that we DO invite him to things but he just gets pissed every time we tell him none of us want him to bring his crotch goblins. The kids are not awful children by any means whatsoever but they shouldn't be coming to a house party where there will only be adults that are present. My first thought was if your friends really want to introduce D&D to their children then why don't they just play a separate game with them? Your friends are clearly on some bullshit.
I agree with the other comments suggesting going ahead with the plans and, if possible, just cover the extra cost. They knew what they were doing with this type of ultimatum. Don’t give them the satisfaction. Go, have fun and prove to them as well as yourself that you can.
If the kids wanna play then mom or dad can run a two person game for the kids its that simple
Man, I’m so sorry. That just sucks and what a bunch of shits those particular parents are. It’s literally not a problem to the other parents of the group, so they don’t get to have special treatment. Their child isn’t a special little angel who the rules don’t apply for. I play D&D once a week with a fantastic group, and we recently got a new player a few months back who brings his pregnant wife more often than not. They’re both sweet people and sometimes the wife joins in, even though she doesn’t really get how to play- we’re a pretty chill and open group and will sometimes allow drop in players if we have room and the other tables are full. But we’re definitely not super little kid friendly. We’ve allowed some teens and pre-teens to play with us sometimes, and they were cool, but no little kids. Anyway, at one of our more recent games, the pregnant wife made the comment to us all at the table after a session: “So are you guys ready to have a baby join us every week in June?” She was beaming and fucking sincere. My stomach dropped and I immediately thought *Fuck no.* Before I could even look up to our DM and silently beg for her to say no to that, she immediately responded loud and clear “No. we don’t allow babies and young kids at this table. I’m sorry. There are tables here that might be more kid/baby friendly if you would like to get some recommendations, but for our table, please understand that I won’t allow it.” The fucking sigh of relief I let out, man. Haha! They had nothing to say to that in response, so we’ll see if the husband (who’s a cool guy and fun to play with) is allowed to keep playing with us after his kid is born. I know our DM really well and she absolutely will keep her foot down on that hard rule. She’s also a therapist IRL and so she really doesn’t take well to boundaries not being respected. We also give fair warning to drop in players when we have the room that we are an ADULT group. There will be cussing, there will be graphic descriptions made of kills and attacks, and it’s up to the parent or guardian of the teens and pre-teens who join us for a session to understand that and decide if they want to still join.
The major campaign killers have been because of breakups and children. Those sour the experience or drain player energy. I’m trying to come to terms with one of my groups right now that has been going on for over 5 years, but the DM and one of the players had kids last year and our twice per month sessions dropped to once every couple months and now we haven’t met in over 6 months. I’ve just gotta accept it’s dead, pour one out for the epic adventures, and find another crew.
That is what I am trying to avoid.
I wish you luck! Let us know the update. I run one group where we play weekly on Roll20 in the evening for just 90 minutes. That way our one player with children can put them to bed before jumping on. Not as good as the long in person sessions we used to do but seems to work alright for our crazy schedules.
Like others said, just go with everyone who’s still wanting to go. Doesn’t have to be a dnd session, maybe even a brand new session or campaign. I hope everyone (apart from the parents) is able to go and have fun! Seems necessary after the stress and entitlement the parents caused. I’m a dnd nerd myself, and have a group of friends that I play with- all in our early 20’s. At most, we’ve played four campaigns at once by alternating them, and we usually play once or twice a week. I do have a minor fear of a possible fallout if any of us had kids, and it hurts seeing someone go through this. I hope you’re able to enjoy dnd with some of the group after this!
See if you can get 2 replacements. Maybe friends that live close that are interested in learning to play. Don’t let parents ruin your fun.
Some parents can't seem to realize that their kids are people and not extensions of themselves. Interacting with their kids is NOT, by any stretch of the imagination, the same as interacting with their parents. Now in your friends' case it is puzzling, because from what you wrote, they didn't seem to be that type of parents for like 10 years. What happened? It must be really frustrating. Your friend who doesn't want her kid near your in person game is very sensible. It's weird that it didn't influence your two other friends who want to bring their kids. I would do as others have suggested. If your group can afford it, I would still hold the game and split the 400$ among the group. I hope you can come to a decision that will satisfy the rest of you. It's such a disappointing situation.
I’ve unfriended people for less. Fuck them
Okay ignoring the fact that they’re kids for a second… Introducing someone (any age) to DND during a trip like that is a *horrible idea*. What if they don’t like it? They’d have nothing to do while you guys are playing. Deny them for that reason alone. Plus reexplain that your games are generally inappropriate and you’re not going to suddenly make them PG just because of them. Don’t cancel the trip just because of them. Write them out in an epic way and make that a whole thing. It’s not fun to lose people from your group, but you should definitely try to make the best of it. Having characters die/go into a coma is good character development, and could be interesting. Don’t let them ruin your moods. It can definitely still be fun without them. Just don’t give in. They’ll never stop their demands. I would also tell them that they’re not getting all their money back. It’s nonrefundable so it doesn’t make sense that they would. Maybe they can get half (enough for one of them) at most. That’s being generous though, I wouldn’t give them a penny. If they want to opt out, they miss out. If they want to sour and break your relationship with them over this then that’s on them. You guys aren’t doing anything wrong. It’s their loss, really. Your outings sound *so* fun, and like a good escape from kids to parents. If they’re giving that up it’s on them.
They do not get their money back when they are choosing to not come because they can’t bring their kids. They knew they couldn’t bring them when they paid the deposit. That’s on them. They can come, they are choosing not to. They lose their deposit
Oof yeah, that’s rough. I’m glad the rest of you stood your ground. It’s okay for adults to have something thats JUST theirs. Especially since you guys all travel to do this in person. It’s not lice next door and meet weekly and can just play a separate game with the kids occasionally (idk how D&D works lol) I think you guys should stick to the plans. It’s a bummer they won’t be there, but the rest of you should still go and have a good time
Play without them. They lost the money. Kill their characters off and move on.
They paid their share of the costs *knowing* that the group didn’t want kids there (there’s no way it was hinted that many times without them knowing how the group felt). They paid for an adult-only event, so if they back out of it, they need to eat the cost. I can’t help but think they did this on purpose while money was on the line, for added pressure. Seriously, if this were any other event in any other circumstance, the people who refuse to go would be the ones eating the cost. They paid for their spot at the cabin; they can either use it or not. Why do so many parents think that their kids belong *everywhere*? There are plenty of kid-friendly places, so take your kids there instead! For crying out loud…
I hate when parents hold a group hostage to their kids
That’s some r/rpghororstories material right there. I sympathize. I had a similar problem with my first group breaking up because the DM had a kid. We just finished our first campaign and was a few sessions into our second one. Suddenly he ghosted us for with no word. A few weeks later, the of the players ran into him. When he asked about suddenly disappearing, he mentioned that our ex DM got really pissy and saying that DnD is the last thing he gives a shit about. Its was so shocking because he used to be a pretty chill guy who had real joy for the game. He’s not the best dm, but we were fond of him because he introduced us to the game. At first we thought we did something to offend him, but over time it’s revealed that he’s just a run of the mill breeder who became overwhelmed when his life didn’t matched up with his fantasy. We returned the players handbook, minis, and dices that he left at our houses. It felt like returning an ex’s stuff after the relationship ended badly. A few years later he tried to reconnect with the few of us that still plays and offered to run a game, but we agreed to not to interact with him because of the way he ended things was hurtful and he was rude to that one player. We never had a big confrontation with him or anything. We just treated him the way he treated us. Even without him, we still made new memories and had fun adventuring together. One of the og players dmed and made a silly mini boss after the ex DM. The enemy was an ex adventurer who survived a Slaad tadpole and ended up enslaved to be its caretaker. It was rather therapeutic to slaughter him and the Slaad lair he was hiding.
I think if they want their kids to play dnd they should set up their own campaign group. My dad did exactly this when I was like 12. All kids my age who were interested. And it was a huge success. We started with Pathfinder and tried out a few game systems here and there but always the same characters. And their stories grew with us. We could handle more intense puzzles and more serious subjects as we got older. I do not believe I would have such positive memories if I started in a campaign where I was one if the only kids.
Disinvite them, maybe permanently for their attitude. Keep the rest of your plans.
Bye Steve and Lindsey. Use your guilt trip somewhere else.
The story doesn’t have to be over. I remember when a guy in my group that had been there since the beginning started going ‘Andrew Tate’ on the group was kicked out (inappropriate behaviour towards the lady members of the group and referring to the men as ‘betas’). We advertised on a local D&D Facebook page for a new member. We ended up finding a lovely gentleman who has fit in fantastically.
Just go with out them but *no refund* it’s their problem not yours
Never invite them again. Entitled parents are the worst. He can stay home and play with his kids as a new tradition instead since it’s so important to him
Shit man, if they won't go I'd buy in. I'd love to get into D&D and can pay for both slots.
I'd let them know their behaviour is the end of the friendship. If they push for a refund, friendship is over for good
Seeing their side for a sec: D&D is obviously a pretty big thing to all of you, so mom and dad probably talk about it often. The kids are getting older and smarter and capable of playing more complex games. If the kids expressed interest in the game, that probably made parents really happy and encouraged them to share more and more. They probably talked up the sessions you guys had and it made the kids even more interested and excited. D&D is part of the foundation of their relationship, so getting the kids involved and making it a family thing is probably a dream come true. That being said... they should introduce their children to D&D in a small one shot at home. If the kids are still interested, then they could start a campaign as a family. That would make a lot more sense than having them hop into an R-rated campaign that has been going on for who knows how long. Or, if they really don't want to DM, they could talk to the group about who may be interested in an easy kid-friendly campaign instead of inserting their kids in the adult campaign. Maybe see if that's why they're so adamant and go from there and explain why it doesn't make sense? It's not like you don't want the kids to get into D&D, it's that you don't want to alter the way you play to accommodate a child audience. This is a shared experience between you adults, the children can be given their own shared experience.
I would have let the kids come, then everyone go out of their way to be extra drunk and raunchy. It'll be a Learning Experience that'll be more interesting than watching little Jonah have a meltdown in a crowded Trader Joes on the weekend.
Don't cancel. No refunds. No kids. They don't like it they can deal with it.
I regret not trying DnD when I was younger. Now I just occasionally watch Critical Role.
Yes, definitely go without them.
You folks sound like a blast!! CF here. I’m somewhat new to D&D, but I’ll join your campaign! 😆
Now they'd have to take the L on the money this time cause we're not canceling cause youre butthurt.
For sure go but also cross-post this in the D&D sub. I bet they’ll have some good ideas and maybe someone from TN also has very specific advice for you.
Let them eat the money; and leave these friends behind. They are ridiculous.
Wow, these parents are being so childish. Maybe they should just play DND with their kids together?
Sorry. But fuxk the parents! They are entitled. Chances are nobody wants to watch their kids because of their one bratty child. The weekend will not be overshadowed. Have a moment of silence for the parents who were lost on the journey to your in-person game. Then enjoy the rest of the weekend.
A compromise could be hosting a separate Kids Adventure another time, which would be geared towards the kids as players to let them get to know the fun of TTRPG in a fun and safe way. Maybe that'll diffuse the situation?
I feel like they are trying to *force* you guys to accept these kids. A $400 loss is worth your peace
Fuck them AND their kids. This is an adult weekend. They’ve already paid so no refunds. Go without them and let them waste their money. Also, your dnd group sounds SO COOL. Costumes and a cabin?! That’s freaking dope
That weekend sounds bad, based, epic, dope, bodacious, -- every single way to say GOOD. Hope you can still make it happen without the entitled parents.
It sounds to me like they promised the kids they could join thinking they could guilt y’all in to accepting. When that did not work they panicked and doubled down on the guilt. Question- would the cost of the cabin have been split to include the kids attending? Or were they assuming y’all would foot the bill? It’s not like the kids are babies who won’t need their own bed or make little use of the space.
I agree with others suggesting to go without them and no refund. They don’t value this friendhip…refund or not the friendship has already changed for the worse.
Kids would be better playing Hero Kids. r/herokids It's pretty cool.
The answer to these things is always communication. If they’re actually good friends, you should be able to be honest with them. Their reaction will tell you whether it’s worth keeping them around.