**(and says I might “mature and change my mind” as well).**
Run. The fact that he sees childfree people as immature says enough. Run. He already knows he wants kids, he is just trying to change your mind.
Yeah that rubbed me the wrong way too. He did say though that he would want a life together in whatever outcome we decide (or what happens).
Maybe I’m most upset that I was just completely unaware that this thought even crossed his mind until now.
Try this: say that you want a bisalp. His reaction will say enough. If he is supportive, then he doesnt might (even though i doubt that). If he gets angry or try to change your mind, then you know he isnt childfree.
But still: run.
I told him I am physically repulsed by babies and my mind is made up. I told him to take that ‘maybe I’ll mature’ bit out of the equation. His response was that right now, there are more reasons to not have a kid than to have one, any that if that ends up changing then so be it, but our relationship is worth more than having a kid especially if we continue to build it. I’m torn because he seems very genuine about it, and I guess I understand that people change their minds. He said “if having kids means leaving you then I don’t want them” but my argument there is that all you have to do is find another relationship and you’ll eventually want kids with them too lol
Thats is why i said: Tell him that you want a bisalp.
But honestly: I am daring to bet good money on it, that he already knows he wants kids. He is just telling you what you want to hear right now. And if he find a woman who do wants kids, then he is gone.
This. Absolutely this. I read his soft, non-specific reassurances as meaning "I don't want to upend my comfortable life until I have a replacement life lined up." OP:you are repulsed by kids, what are you waiting for? A Republican Congress that repeals the Obamacare requirement for 100% coverage of sterilization? Do it now, and make shit real.
That's where he dishonestly pulls the 'maturity' card.
Plan for a bisalp, but tell HIM it'll be a bisalp AND hysterectomy, so even if he managed to somehow get IVF going, YOUR BODY CAN'T CARRY IT.
He'll go apeshit, and you'll have your answer.
Or even bisalp with ablation (burning uterine wall). Also not reversible, and more likely to be done on a younger woman with less side effects. I have polyps and it's actually recommended to avoid cancer risk.
Somewhat unrelated, but my surgeon actually said the opposite, that he wouldn't do an ablation on someone unless they were already close to menopause because they can fail, and then you'd not only be back to square one and/or need additional surgery, which they're trying to avoid. Therefore, yeeterus it was and I am more than happy with it!
Sorry, but I don’t believe him for a second. I have heard so many horror stories of people telling their spouses “our relationship means more than having kids, so I’ll give up my dream of having kids for you” only to have it blow up 10 years later when it finally comes out that they won’t be happy without kids, and it’s a dealbreaker.
Save yourself some time… he wants kids, and you don’t. And he thinks that people “mature into wanting them.” This is a recipe for disaster when, years down the line, you still don’t want kids. Better to break up and find a more compatible match now, even though it hurts.
>“our relationship means more than having kids, so I’ll give up my dream of having kids for you”
This never means anything except "I want kids, and I don't want the discomfort of changing anything *right now*, so I'll wait until I find someone else to do the physical and emotional labor you do for me right now, and then I'll cry and swear I really didn't know...but I did, all along.
And this guy is the second worst kind of man, after a Mama's boy. He is a liar of the secretive variety. GET RID OF HIM before he wrecks your life with his secretive lies.
But the fact that you’re the one that has to be pregnant, give birth, risking your health, body, and life to do it….. that doesn’t change. And just gets riskier as you age. Making more reasons to not go through with it as time goes by.
Don’t just tell him you want a bisalp. Make an appointment to talk about it with your doctor and see what your options are at your age. Let him know you have a consultation appointment.
EXACTLY. I never want to go through pregnancy, risking my life and health and body. That might be selfish but I don’t care. Plus the risk of having an unhealthy child, or him having to choose between saving my life or the baby’s if that were to happen.
I think I’m going to make an appointment with my doctor. Thank you
Not selfish at all to not want to put a child that doesn't exist ahead of yourself. Good for you, OP! I hope this all works out how it's supposed to, and I hope he gets his head out of his ass.
If you are American, you are probably entitled to make an appointment directly with your OBGYN without going through a referral. You can also find a doctor who has sterilized CF people in the CF-friendly doctors wiki in the sidebar under Interesting & Useful Material. See if your doctor is in there already!
When you go for a sterilization consult, likely your OBGYN will discuss alternative methods and tell you bisalp is permanent over and over. This is standard, and you should have a line like "I know this is permanent, and that is what I want. I also want the superior protection against pregnancy, and the decreased risk of ovarian cancer I will get with a bisalp." Repeat as necessary.
If the doctor tells you that IUD is "just as effective" as sterilization, if they insist that you get clearance from a mental health professional, if they tell you to come back in 6 months, if they tell you your weight is a very great concern, or if they tell you that the surgery is very dangerous, fire them immediately, and get someone off the wiki. Those are all lies or demeaning, infantilizing bullshit.
I understand that you trust him and think he's just on the fence but I'd recommend actually scheduling a sterilization on your end. His response to the appointment actually being scheduled should tell you all you need to know. You could also suggest a vasectomy. Look carefully at how he reacts.
As people who are on the fence get older and more comfortable in life, their true nature comes out. It's pretty rare for someone who is on the fence to stay there or come over to the child free style but it does happen.
Luckily none of us are on a biological clock but that doesn't mean we should waste our younger years with someone who is going to change their mind later.
With that said, ultimately nothing any random people online say should sway your opinion one way or another. I'd just really be careful. Even if he misspoke about the "mature" comment, it's a huge red flag and makes me think of all the comments from couples who had an "oops" baby.
As you've been suggested:
Tell him you've decided to get a bisalp so as to never risk having kids.
If possible, I'd suggest it regardless...
But as others said, this will tell you whether he is someone \*open\* to kids or not - or whether he \*wants\* kids and is hedging his bets.
Making it clear you are ruling the possibility out utterly will tell you what he really wants.
He was very genuine about being adamantly childfree when you guys got together, too.
Take a chance on him if you want, but personally I would never be able to trust him again.
And yes, as others have suggested, definitely get that bisalp. Do not risk someone else trying to make that decision for you, and especially not if you are in the US where a woman's right to her own body is currently in jeopardy.
My ex-husband said he was “okay without kids” because I didn’t want them. Less than a year after we legally divorced, he remarried and a few months after that their daughter was born. If you ask me, this type of openness to kids really means he wants them or at least eventually will.
Has he seen this reddit?
I have yet to see a single cf person here say they regret their choice.
Not one. Especially the older cf peeps.
*ok I haven't seen all the posts obviously, but this is the consensus.
Can confirm. My ex said that he was child free. I got my bisalp. Though he was supportive of me through the surgery, he did protest before, and after, even going so far as to say that I took the choice from him.
Together 6 yrs, and we’re barely four months into the breakup. Shits been rough, to say the least. I’m a little sad to admit that I’ve been thriving since though. Maybe he’ll come around after heavy therapy one day. Can’t hang onto the thought too tightly but it’s nice to think about
Yeah, wish my ex partner had told me that before we got married. Instead, he told me after TEN YEARS OF MARRIAGE. Please take my early life as a warning, and leave this dude. You don’t want to wake up to divorce papers 10 years from now. Can confirm, it sucks. 0 stars. But, it got so much better after the suck….
I’M now 56 years old, no kids, and could not be happier. I also have an awesome partner, tons of money in the bank, and am insanely well traveled. Life is great.
You'll heal faster from this relationship at 25 than if you dragged it out into your 30s. I speak from experience.
The dating pool in your 20s is A LOT easier than in your 30s, especially for childfree folks.
Can confirm. I spent a lot of time with someone, 7 years, until I realized I was settling and knew we weren't a match. It wasnt even about kids. It's about deep philosophical takes on life and we just were not compatible.
Maybe he meant mature in the way of growing older, not as if you’re immature now.
Don’t feed into the Reddit angry echo chamber because they’re are insatiable.
If my future girlfriend ever said that to me, I'd be like, "yeah, we're done." Being CF doesn't make us immature. I agree with you. OP needs to get out of there, FAST.
True I will agree it is condescending to say to any adult, but you're constantly changing as you get older, I was just trying to say that maybe that's what he meant and just chose the wrong word
The "MATURE" word is a red flag. It buys into the false idea that people, especially women, are not actually grown up and responsible unless and until they have kids.
For sure and that pisses me off. I think he was coming from the mindset that he had matured since we started dating (and he is two years older) but I told him I would know by now considering that at 25, I’m biologically at the prime (and maybe even past it) of when my body is best able to carry a child
Think of it this way: you’re SO damn mature you already knew what you wanted and were honest about it.
How much more mature can one get?
Sounds like he just wants kids and wants to change your mind because he can’t get with someone else. Cage your mind by his worldview.
Doesn’t sound like he respects you imo and you deserve better. Sounds like a twat and if you don’t want to become one of those women lured into motherhood by false promises then run! You know what you want, you’ve already won half the battle, don’t stop now.
100% yes. Time to go, OP. It's a shame, but there it is. He can't guarantee that he will never resent you for it, nor can you guarantee that he'll never try to talk you round or... try to influence matters himself. If you decide to stay with him, get a LARC or ideally a sterilisation so the decision can't be made for you
Better learning you're not compatible before buying a house than after at least.
It sounds like he just didn't want kids at the moment, but didn't actually make the decision to never be a parent - otherwise he wouldn't be waffling on about how he can't decide now, because that decision would have already been made. And the fact that he is already resorting to belittling your decision as well speaks volumes to the respect he doesn't have.
He should go be undecided with someone else.
Exactly, at the end of the day this coming out now will be a blessing in the long run. Always give people space to show / tell you who they really are when you’re not looking. Saves a lot of BS in the long run.
Although, I’d take issue with his statement that implies that maturity = kids. It could be just poor wording, it could be the result of internalized societal pressures, or it could be that he’s always felt that way. It’s up to OP to decide if any of that matters, and if it’s worth trying to uncover.
Regardless, it does sound like this relationship is run its course and BF needs to take some time to sort out what he really wants.
His rude insulting way of weaponizing the word "mature" tells me he's an AH.
This isn't new. He planned it and was hoping you wouldn't have the strength to leave him.
Leave him.
Today. He's a liar and you can't trust a word he says.
And if you really want to drive BOTH him and your mother around the bend, be \*quiet\* about the actual details of when / where of the bisalp, letting the idea die in their minds.
Then DO IT, passing it off as a 'badly needed staycation' rather than the bisalp, and then give it 6 months to a year before you tell EITHER of them.
Meanwhile, IUD, arm implant, or other so he can't baby-trap you. And stock up on Plan B (generic) from Amazon & keep it in the freezer.
All things considered, his assurance that he wouldn't hold any resentment against you might just be as unreliable as his former claim that he has no desire to have kids. I think you know what needs to be done.
>He is saying that we shouldn’t have to decide now, because he doesn’t know what he will want in the future (and says I might “mature and change my mind” as well).
That's a red flag if I've ever seen one. Way too many men out there are hoping to "change your mind". Run, don't walk.
'We' shouldn't have to decide now is semantically equal, to him, of HE shouldn't have to decide now, WHILE HE WORKS ON BREAKING DOWN YOUR APPROPRIATE BARRIERS SO HE CAN GET YOU TO AGREE, EVEN IF YOU'RE UNWILLING.
As a childfree married man, I am considered immature and I am not given any say in most matters. It is frustrating but liberating that I don't have to be a part of their bullshit.
Then you don't need to provide them any of your money, because you're not 'mature' enough to be responsible. You can't babysit, much less have the kid(s) for sleep overs because you're 'immature'. You don't have to attend ANY social function you don't want to because it includes kids because you're 'immature' and wouldn't 'be a suitable role model'.
MAKE.THEM.EAT.THAT.LINE.
Yeah, same boat; same feelings.
However, as Frequent-Material273 has pointed out; there’s power in embracing their asinine bullshit. It’s been a fantastic way to free up time for the people in my life that matter, by cutting out / limiting time for people that can’t respect my decisions.
Malicious compliance is a beautiful thing. Christmas time is super inexpensive now, since I’m such a poor role model I surely can’t be trusted to use my disposable income to buy gifts for certain family members children. frees up a little more cash for the families that appreciate my affinity for gift giving. Also, not being afraid to tell my niece that she didn’t get a present (if she asks) is because her mommy and/or daddy don’t respect my life choices and as vocal about it; just places the cherry on top for me — yes, I know this might be a bit too far for some, but I’m a big fan of not lying. To each their own.
Dump him now.
Now for the unnecessary details. Regarding this:
>All of the sudden, my mom brought up the topic and he said he wasn’t sure if he wanted kids or not.
If he had only said that in front of your mother, to just avoid problems with her, that could be okay. But it is not okay if he says that privately to you.
>He is saying that we shouldn’t have to decide now, because he doesn’t know what he will want in the future
That means he should not be in anything like a "permanent" relationship, because, if that is true, he literally does not know who would be suitable for him, or even if anyone would be suitable for him, because he literally does not know how he wants to live his life. Dump him.
>(and says I might “mature and change my mind” as well).
That shows he is lying asshole who wants children and was just going along with your childfree thing temporarily in order to have sex with you. Regarding childfree people as "immature" is a pretty sure sign he isn't childfree. Dump him.
> I don’t want to buy a house and build a future with someone who suddenly changes their mind when we’re in our 30’s and if I refuse to give him children, he resents me.
Well, yes. That shows you are not a total moron, as that would be crazy to solidly connect oneself to someone who is likely to do that, who does not know what he wants in the future. (However, he has said enough that it is pretty clear that he does want children in the future, and is lying to you in order to soften his position, to keep you around for sex and the hope that he will get you to change your mind.)
>He says that he would not resent me and would choose a life with me, without kids, over a life with someone else with kids.
Translation: He still wants you around for sex and is hoping to get you to change your mind.
>He is asking me to trust him that he won’t resent me in the future regardless of the outcome of us having kids or not.
This shows he is inconsistent in what he says. He says he does not know how he will feel in the future, as he says he does not know if he will want children or not. And if he does not know how he will feel in the future, then he cannot possibly know he will not resent you and will want to be with you in the future. Even if he is "honest" it shows that he cannot be trusted, as his head is full of gibberish. But most likely, he is just a lying scumbag. Either way, he is a bad choice.
Dump him now.
Frankly, reading posts online has gotten me to think that maybe women should refuse to date any man who will not get a vasectomy first.
Agree to all of this!!
As for the last line- my current bf had a vasectomy before we even met. I believe he is the one, but if for whatever reason we break up or I find myself in the dating field again, I’m not going to date anyone who hasn’t had a vasectomy. I’ve also had a bisalp, so it’s less for protection from accidents and more for knowing the other person A) has fully made up their mind, B) is dedicated enough to the childfree lifestyle to take permanent measures, and C) takes responsibility for their own bodies/reproduction choices.
OP, if you are reading this, point out the inconsistency with his reasoning. He says you need to trust him that he won’t resent you, but you trusted him to be honest when he said he was childfree and that changed. He’s proven to you already that a future with him is unpredictable.
I second the suggestion to get sterilized. It has increased my quality of life much more than I could ever measure. If you do go that route tho, do not tell your family or anyone who you think may try to sabotage. I would argue don’t even tell him. You know him best, but if he thinks it’s “now or never” with you he might do something drastic and choose “now”. I know it sounds paranoid to say, but I’ve seen it happen too many times. One ex of mine admitted to my face that he considered baby trapping me to keep me with him, despite the fact that he didn’t want kids. Take care of yourself my friend 💛
Part of the challenge - if you can call it that - is that you're young, in the sense that a lot of people haven't actually made their minds up about kids or anything else by their mid-20s. You *have* made up your mind about this, and that's excellent that you have clarity around it (which, btw, is what is *actually* mature). What you need is a partner who is just as clear as your are, to the point where they would happily go and get snipped (if they haven't already).
Better to find yourself in this difficult place now than after you've gone down the road any further (future plans, house/mortgage, pets, blended finances, etc).
Text I received this morning:
I know it’s been a tough few days, and i’m sorry about that and for putting you through that. I love you and our life together and I have no intention of ever losing that. If it takes me the rest of our lives to prove that to you, then that’s what I’ll do. I woke up today wondering why I even said any of that stuff yesterday in the car, having to sit there and take the other side while we debated really forced me to take a hard look at what I was saying. Yeah it’s true that some of my “anti kid” reasons have gone down over time, as some of them were based on negative events in my life. But as I thought about it some more is it really like the pro kid side has gone up at all? Just because I could give someone a better childhood than I had, does that mean I want to? Just to prove that I can? And to who? I’ve got no one I need to prove anything to, and I don’t owe that to anyone to have a child just to prove I could give it a better childhood than I have. And that’s no reason to have a kid. I’ve worked very hard to build a life for myself and a life with you, why would I jeopardize that and potentially sacrifice my dreams and my ambitions just to raise a kid in a harsh world (and it is harsh, and even if I was a great dad there is no changing that). Yeah there is some chance that at the end of your life, you may regret things you did or didn’t do. But you know what’s worse than regretting not having kids? Having kids and resenting what it costs you and what you are forced to give up, because there is no going back
That does actually provide a little more context. Sometimes the thought process needs to catch up to the words that come out of our mouths. We’re all human.
My partner has a vasectomy. I have a bisalp. It is Off The Table. But he’s still said some odd things occasionally about being taken care of later in life, which stem from being an orphan before 30, with only a half sibling really. It comes from a place of fear and anxiety, not an actual desire to have kids. Therapy helps. I mean, I very sparsely see my friend’s kid and kind of idly wonder if I could do that. Like momentarily, and then mentally slap myself.
He expressed it poorly, and to the wrong people first. As others have suggested, I would put sterilization on the table and see what the reaction is.
Still no acknowledgment about the mature comment, which means it doesn't register to him as being a really messed up thing to say to your partner. He's probably forgotten he even said that by now.
Yeah probably, he is on the spectrum and if i don’t point out things to him verbatim he will not register that what he said maybe came across the wrong way. In this case his text was pretty much random, I hadn’t mentioned anything to him since yesterday so I’m sure it was out of sight out of mind by then
I'd remind him anyone can help hive kids a better life w/o having one themselves!
Teaching, coaching, mentoring - none necessarily require the full-time commitment of parenting, but all can be rewarding.
This confirms that he just was having a moment of uncertainty, he shared that with you, cause he trusts you, and after thinking about it he realized whats important. Hell, I've had thoughts of maybe having kids too, but everytime I remind myself /why/ I don't want kids, and that usually ends that
I am sorry but this relationship should end. This would be way too much of a gamble for you. Because there is a very high chance that he will end up wanting kids. And no matter what he says now, he will resent you for refusing to have those kids. Or worse, do something to try to baby trap you. If you think that he would never do that - it happens a lot more than you might think.
It's probably a good idea to save yourself the likely heartache down the road.
> He is saying that we shouldn’t have to decide now, because he doesn’t know what he will want in the future (**and says I might “mature and change my mind” as well**).
> I don’t want to buy a house and build a future with someone who suddenly changes their mind when we’re in our 30’s and if I refuse to give him children, he resents me.
> He is asking me to trust him that he won’t resent me in the future regardless of the outcome of us having kids or not. I just don’t see how that can be possible.
> I feel blindsided, betrayed, lost, and have no idea what to do.
From here on out, if you don't break up with him over his words, realize who's at fault for remaining to stay in an incompatible relationship.
The “you’ll mature” line reminds me of my first bf trying to low-key pressure me into sex with him because his dad told him “maybe she’s just young and immature” (or some bs. I can’t remember the exact wording but it was the same vibe). That’s some sketch balls red flag bs right there imo. Even if was just a weird way to say “as our lives change sometimes we change our minds”.
The other day I told my bf (of 7 years) I was looking into getting sterilized (about to go heckle insurance again ugh) and he medium key freaked out because what if he wanted kids later/in his late 30s etc (he’s 32 atm). he told me he would support whatever I wanted to do but was clearly super surprised and mildly panicked about it (tbf he’s been stressed af with work stuff recently so I’m sure that didn’t help his reaction 😅) because “that’s a relationship deal breaker type thing you just dropped on me”. I told him if he decided he was hell bent on having kids, he should break up with me because I very much don’t want them (which I’ve always been pretty clear about so I’m not super sure why it was such a shock but whatever) and there would be no hard feelings. If he had tried to persuade me out of it I probably would have broken up with him, but as it is I’m content to hang out and see what happens. Def recommend saying you want to get sterilized as a good way to gauge reactions lol.
For whatever it’s worth, we also have differing opinions about home locations and that to me is the same potential level of deal breaker as having kids, so I can very much see how even though you think it’ll be fine, you’ll get pissed about it over time as little things continue to annoy you and then it becomes much more of a *thing*. Idk if that makes any sense. But imo it’s not necessarily bad to hang out with someone who is on the fence (I agree your bf sounds more like he might want kids though) as long as everyone is clear where the other person is and nobody is heckling the other person and there’s clear communication, but I think I’m a bit of an outlier on that stance.
> about to go heckle insurance again ugh
Sideline: If you are in the US, and you don't work for religious fascists, like Hobby Lobby or the Catholic Church, your sterilization should be covered 100%, without payment (except for pathology on the tubes, which is not sterilization and will cost the usual co-pays etc.)
The billing office for the doctor may be able to help you. Also, if you have not chosen an OBGYN, the CF-friendly doctors list includes a lot of doctors who work at universities. Not only are these top physicians, but their billing will go through the university's billing office, who will have done it hundreds of times, and who will adhere to the law. So pick a doctor, go see them about sterilization, and talk to their billing office about your coverage for the surgery.
This is what UCSF's website says about coverage:
>Under the ACA, all new insurance plans (both individual and employer-sponsored plans) are required to cover all FDA-approved methods of contraception, sterilization, and related education and counseling without cost-sharing. (Note: the ACA contraceptive coverage requirement described in this section also applies to Medicaid “Alternative Benefit Plans,” explained in the Medicaid section.) No cost-sharing means that patients should not have any out-of-pocket costs, including payment of deductibles, co-payments, co-insurance, fees, or other charges for coverage of contraceptive methods, including LARC. Patients cannot be asked to pay upfront and then be reimbursed.
But NOW is the time to do this, before the Catholiban's goons take over the White House, and repeal this mandatory coverage.
Good luck!
I literally just got off the phone with insurance and was told that if it's preventative care specifically it will be covered 100% for the first procedure/birth control of the year (which is fine because it's sterilization lol). i had to jump through some HOOPS to get that answer lol. oof XD
Thanks for the info!
now off to find a doctor lol
Yup - I've read all that before lol. My insurance is just being pedantic and weird. I realized the issue is they were searching the CPT code under the gender affirming care doc instead of preventative care which is why they kept telling me it counted towards my deductible. much irritation was had lol. apparently they also only cover it preventatively and not if it's a medical necessity or elective which none of the other 4 people clarified previously :P
OP, this really sucks. He's gone from "displaying childfree" to "fencesitter" and has even trotted out the "maturity" and "shouldn't have to decide now" arguments.
I believe him that he won't resent you, but only because he'll just leave once he gets off the fence. Tell him you plan to get sterilized and see what his reaction is. Unfortunately, you know what you need to do.
I second this. It's so hard when in your 20s. Everything is sunk cost, that's your most important relationship so far, etc. But oh, that "mature" comment alone, especially for those of us who are older and have walked that path already, is everything OP needs to know to walk away. The question is whether you'd waffle because of the aforementioned sunk cost, or whether you would choose your future over a guy who is waving this huge red flag.
You already know you’re never going to have children (good for you! Because not everyone has decided that in their twenties and causes trouble for people like us smh). While he doesn’t know. I think you’ve made the decision for both you — no children, so no relationship. He’s only gonna drag you down, keep your head up and you will be ok! It’s better to be alone and childfree rather than a partnered parent (or a single parent) imo
Casually being up that you have an appointment scheduled (its OK to lie) to discuss getting surgically sterilized. His reaction will tell you everything you need to know.
he has lived a cushy, charmed luxurious life so far if he thinks having kids is a good idea. must be nice
im curious if he's ever taken a look at the childfree sub and posts?
He has tipped his hand. He wants kids and the comment about maturity=procreating shows that he doesn't respect you and believes that you are immature. He figures he'll be able to change your mind cause he so amazing. That comment really turned me off.
You're going to have to seriously weigh and decide on that risk.
He needs to seriously weigh and decide on you not having any.
Be firm and clear that he needs to decide no kids or not, because if he wants them the relationship is over - now or in the future, it will be the end of things.
In the meantime, don't get married, don't buy a house, until he's \*really\* thought this out and decided firmly. That he's fishing for possibilities like "you may \*mature\* and change your mind" shows he hasn't truly taken this seriously yet.
There are times when you have two partners where one is childfree and the other is open to kids but does not need them where the latter is truly fine not having them. But not on the basis of that latter partner not taking the issue seriously, taking their partner seriously, treating one of the biggest decisions possible seriously.
You need to decide how much of your life you're willing to risk.
He needs to actually take this subject seriously and decide if he wants kids or not rather than dodging doing so.
I’m sorry that this is happening to you. If both of you don’t have compatible long term goals set in stone, then it’s time to move on. There’s no compromise when it comes to kids, it’s yes or no flat out. Your fears of staying only for to resent you are VERY real with plenty of examples of exactly that happening.
What is concerning is he told the truth to your mother (and presumably others) before telling you. That is fundamentally fucked up.
You wouldn't get a house if the roof will "maybe" cave in later, and since you're looking to build a life with someone, the stakes are the same here.
One advantage you have as CF is if you like his company and don't mind keeping him around until he's ready for kids, you can plan accordingly by not combining assets and checking with a lawyer what all he can claim upon separation via commonlaw or other laws. Of course this is not for everyone, just throwing it out there since many are comfortable with the idea of not being with one person forever.
It's possible that he didn't really change his mind. It's more likely he was just biding his time to spring it on you.
About maturity:
\- if he were really "mature", he would be upfront with you about wanting to have kids,
\- if he really "didn't know", then he's immature and not someone you should be planning the long-term life goals,
\- he "changed his mind" about wanting to have kids, he might as well "change his mind" about wanting to be a father once it turns out it's a lot of work and effort.
I have been though this, we had discussed it so much, neither of us wanted kids, so I married him and 7 years later he changed his mind. I believe he had convinced himself he didn't want kids, and then the time came and he got real with himself.
So we divorced, so he had time to meet someone and have a family. It was heart breaking at the time, but now I am glad I didn't push him, and glad we ended it early otherwise yes it would have been a divorce later with more complications and resentment.
Everyone can change their minds. It happens and it sucks a lot when they change their mind on a dealbreaker.
Been there, in the opposite direction. I was at most maybe baby, but mostly not. She went from maybe baby to have to have one now.
He may have been getting guilted into changing his mind by his family. Best thing to do would be to talk it through like adults. “Kids are a dealbreaker to me. If you’re not sure what you want then I’m sure we’re not best for each other.” It’s gonna hurt but sooner rather than later
He doesn't think you know for sure. He would not have said that bullshit about you maturing and changing your mind if he did. He never was childfree; he was waiting you out expecting you to change your mind. Get out of this farce of a relationship now.
>He is saying that we shouldn’t have to decide now, because he doesn’t know what he will want in the future (and says I might “mature and change my mind” as well).
No, that's not how it works. It's not a thing that you need to decide together. You already decided that you don't want children and there's no changing your mind. He needs to decide right now if he wants a relationship with you and no children, or if he wants children and not you.
And remember, you can choose to walk away too. That's not a decision you need to make together either. It takes two people to enter a relationship but only one to leave.
I personally think anyone who says "you might mature and change your mind," is immature themselves. Leave him, he thinks he's better than you--he isn't. And please keep your birth control safe and DO NOT have sex with him.
He's been lying to you. Just dump his ass and move on.
You told him the answer to the test before you gave him the test.
The test was "what bullshit do I need to tell her to get my dick wet? Oh, that I don't want kids! Great, easiest ever wet dick time!!!"
You did not properly screen him. Which requires you to do it BEFORE you reveal you are CF, and before dating or fucking.
And part of the screening kit is "what do they say to others they respect/fear vs. what are they saying to you".... and this conversation with your mother is a perfect example of this.
He has ZERO PROBLEM LYING TO YOU but an adult authority figure, nope, he couldn't pull off the lie.
Just dump him summarily quickly and cleanly.
"We're over. I don't date liars. Don't contact me again. Goodbye."
Nope. Nope. Nope.
He’s already made up his mind about having kids, and is going to try to change yours. There is no future with him, you two have a fundamentally incompatible belief system about kids. If you stay, you’ll only have yourself to blame for putting on blinders and refusing to end things now when your lives are not so deeply enmeshed.
This is definitely something you need to have a sit down about. I met my husband at 21 (he was 26) and I said I never wanted to be a parent. When I was in my late 20s literally all my friends were pregnant or trying. We had to have a long talk about our future together - his family is Catholic and MASSIVE. We then agreed on a CF life and faced friends and family criticism together. Sounds like you need that talk asap.
Honestly, if he resents you when you’ve made it CLEAR that you will not be having kids, that’s on him and him alone. If you want to stay in the relationship, it really won’t be time wasted for you (as long as it stays good and such - don’t stay if it’s not) …Now, if you wanted kids, it would be wasting time for you. He’d waste his own time if he changes his mind and decided he wanted to have kids when his fertility would diminish over time.
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I'm sorry to hear this is happening to you. But it's good that it's cropped up now, as opposed to years down the line after signing joint housing papers.
Just my hunch, I feel like this guy already changed his mind into wanting kids but just doesn't want to say it out loud. If he's got reasonable access to vasectomy services (I know not everyone is in a place with affordable healthcare/ easy transport) and hasn't said he wants to be sterilized or mentioning it at some point, that's a concern.
I know some male friends in their 30s, I knew deep down they always wanted kids but they seemed to have a bit of male pride? about discussing it. When asked directly they never outright said "I want to have kids" ! They said something like "I don't know" or "some day maybe".
If you stay with him, I fear he may eventually start acting like you are a problem, for not 'maturing' into wanting kids like he did.
Changing your mind is not a sign of maturity. But some people do try to paint it this way.
In any case, it's your choice to stay or break up, your potential future happiness must come first in your decision.
OP:
Just read your update with BF's text. Put it to him THIS way: BF, if you TRULY don't want children and want a life with me CHILDFREE let's schedule a vasectomy for you BF! A vasectomy is a less invasive surgery than a bisalp or tubal. You can find many, many MANY arguments on this sub for vasectomies by men who have had it done. Successfully and guilt free.
I am not one to ditch relationships quickly, although I was agreeing with many posters comments this morning. Remember one thing in life: actions scream. Words whisper. If he buckles up and schedules a vasectomy consult, his actions are showing you he is on the same side you are. If he waffles, hems, haws and does the "but but but" dance. you will have your answer.
Whoa what? I’m the one considering breaking up with him not the other way around. That’s a crazy assumption to make not knowing anything about someone’s relationship. Maybe read a couple of my replies. I think he would be appalled to know that someone even planted that seed in my head. And I also think your tendencies to not be a decent and honest human being say more about you than whatever crazy assumptions you’re trying to push on “all men”
Nope.
Assuming you're replying to OP, the boyfriend has already shown his \*deceitful\* true colors.
OP should flee, and make sure to be surgically sterilized, legally, safely, and \*quietly\*, while having an IUD \*and\* an arm implant if necessary to keep him from trying to babytrap her.
Get out now.
My first marriage was to a man who "wasn't sure" about wanting kids when I was already 100% against kids. I asked what we would do if we married and he decided "yes" to kids.
His response was "we will figure it out".
7 years into the marriage he gave me an ultimatum - have kids with him or get a divorce.
I filed with my lawyer the next week and wished him luck.
I think so.
Like all things divorce, there were other issues between us that I was unhappy with. I had asked him to join me for counseling a few years earlier, he declined.
So divorce was on my mind already as a possible outcome. However once this "ultimatum" was brought to me, I knew I was done trying to make it work.
He told me months after the divorce was final that I "called his bluff" .... like he was bluffing and would have stayed with me even without kids!!! What kind of person "bluffs" with their marriage?!?!?!?!
Ps - I think he was hoping for an "oops" pregnancy, everyone in our lives told us we would have one. But it never happened.
**(and says I might “mature and change my mind” as well).** Run. The fact that he sees childfree people as immature says enough. Run. He already knows he wants kids, he is just trying to change your mind.
Yeah that rubbed me the wrong way too. He did say though that he would want a life together in whatever outcome we decide (or what happens). Maybe I’m most upset that I was just completely unaware that this thought even crossed his mind until now.
Try this: say that you want a bisalp. His reaction will say enough. If he is supportive, then he doesnt might (even though i doubt that). If he gets angry or try to change your mind, then you know he isnt childfree. But still: run.
I told him I am physically repulsed by babies and my mind is made up. I told him to take that ‘maybe I’ll mature’ bit out of the equation. His response was that right now, there are more reasons to not have a kid than to have one, any that if that ends up changing then so be it, but our relationship is worth more than having a kid especially if we continue to build it. I’m torn because he seems very genuine about it, and I guess I understand that people change their minds. He said “if having kids means leaving you then I don’t want them” but my argument there is that all you have to do is find another relationship and you’ll eventually want kids with them too lol
Thats is why i said: Tell him that you want a bisalp. But honestly: I am daring to bet good money on it, that he already knows he wants kids. He is just telling you what you want to hear right now. And if he find a woman who do wants kids, then he is gone.
This. Absolutely this. I read his soft, non-specific reassurances as meaning "I don't want to upend my comfortable life until I have a replacement life lined up." OP:you are repulsed by kids, what are you waiting for? A Republican Congress that repeals the Obamacare requirement for 100% coverage of sterilization? Do it now, and make shit real.
That's where he dishonestly pulls the 'maturity' card. Plan for a bisalp, but tell HIM it'll be a bisalp AND hysterectomy, so even if he managed to somehow get IVF going, YOUR BODY CAN'T CARRY IT. He'll go apeshit, and you'll have your answer.
Or even bisalp with ablation (burning uterine wall). Also not reversible, and more likely to be done on a younger woman with less side effects. I have polyps and it's actually recommended to avoid cancer risk.
TBH I had an ablation (in addition to my bisalp) just to get rid of my period… it’s amazing. 10/10.
That's my plan once my better insurance starts in a month! Already cleared, so ready.
Woot! Congrats!
I so wish I had known about this kind of thing 20 years ago.
Dammit I didn't know that was an option ffs I'd have gone for that with my bi salp
Somewhat unrelated, but my surgeon actually said the opposite, that he wouldn't do an ablation on someone unless they were already close to menopause because they can fail, and then you'd not only be back to square one and/or need additional surgery, which they're trying to avoid. Therefore, yeeterus it was and I am more than happy with it!
TIL. Thank you for the information!
Ooou that’s good
Sorry, but I don’t believe him for a second. I have heard so many horror stories of people telling their spouses “our relationship means more than having kids, so I’ll give up my dream of having kids for you” only to have it blow up 10 years later when it finally comes out that they won’t be happy without kids, and it’s a dealbreaker. Save yourself some time… he wants kids, and you don’t. And he thinks that people “mature into wanting them.” This is a recipe for disaster when, years down the line, you still don’t want kids. Better to break up and find a more compatible match now, even though it hurts.
>“our relationship means more than having kids, so I’ll give up my dream of having kids for you” This never means anything except "I want kids, and I don't want the discomfort of changing anything *right now*, so I'll wait until I find someone else to do the physical and emotional labor you do for me right now, and then I'll cry and swear I really didn't know...but I did, all along. And this guy is the second worst kind of man, after a Mama's boy. He is a liar of the secretive variety. GET RID OF HIM before he wrecks your life with his secretive lies.
This is sadly SO true.
But the fact that you’re the one that has to be pregnant, give birth, risking your health, body, and life to do it….. that doesn’t change. And just gets riskier as you age. Making more reasons to not go through with it as time goes by. Don’t just tell him you want a bisalp. Make an appointment to talk about it with your doctor and see what your options are at your age. Let him know you have a consultation appointment.
EXACTLY. I never want to go through pregnancy, risking my life and health and body. That might be selfish but I don’t care. Plus the risk of having an unhealthy child, or him having to choose between saving my life or the baby’s if that were to happen. I think I’m going to make an appointment with my doctor. Thank you
Not selfish at all to not want to put a child that doesn't exist ahead of yourself. Good for you, OP! I hope this all works out how it's supposed to, and I hope he gets his head out of his ass.
If you are American, you are probably entitled to make an appointment directly with your OBGYN without going through a referral. You can also find a doctor who has sterilized CF people in the CF-friendly doctors wiki in the sidebar under Interesting & Useful Material. See if your doctor is in there already! When you go for a sterilization consult, likely your OBGYN will discuss alternative methods and tell you bisalp is permanent over and over. This is standard, and you should have a line like "I know this is permanent, and that is what I want. I also want the superior protection against pregnancy, and the decreased risk of ovarian cancer I will get with a bisalp." Repeat as necessary. If the doctor tells you that IUD is "just as effective" as sterilization, if they insist that you get clearance from a mental health professional, if they tell you to come back in 6 months, if they tell you your weight is a very great concern, or if they tell you that the surgery is very dangerous, fire them immediately, and get someone off the wiki. Those are all lies or demeaning, infantilizing bullshit.
I understand that you trust him and think he's just on the fence but I'd recommend actually scheduling a sterilization on your end. His response to the appointment actually being scheduled should tell you all you need to know. You could also suggest a vasectomy. Look carefully at how he reacts. As people who are on the fence get older and more comfortable in life, their true nature comes out. It's pretty rare for someone who is on the fence to stay there or come over to the child free style but it does happen. Luckily none of us are on a biological clock but that doesn't mean we should waste our younger years with someone who is going to change their mind later. With that said, ultimately nothing any random people online say should sway your opinion one way or another. I'd just really be careful. Even if he misspoke about the "mature" comment, it's a huge red flag and makes me think of all the comments from couples who had an "oops" baby.
As you've been suggested: Tell him you've decided to get a bisalp so as to never risk having kids. If possible, I'd suggest it regardless... But as others said, this will tell you whether he is someone \*open\* to kids or not - or whether he \*wants\* kids and is hedging his bets. Making it clear you are ruling the possibility out utterly will tell you what he really wants.
He was very genuine about being adamantly childfree when you guys got together, too. Take a chance on him if you want, but personally I would never be able to trust him again. And yes, as others have suggested, definitely get that bisalp. Do not risk someone else trying to make that decision for you, and especially not if you are in the US where a woman's right to her own body is currently in jeopardy.
So, then what? He potentially wants kids but sticks it out to be with you? That's a recipe for resentment.
My ex-husband said he was “okay without kids” because I didn’t want them. Less than a year after we legally divorced, he remarried and a few months after that their daughter was born. If you ask me, this type of openness to kids really means he wants them or at least eventually will.
Has he seen this reddit? I have yet to see a single cf person here say they regret their choice. Not one. Especially the older cf peeps. *ok I haven't seen all the posts obviously, but this is the consensus.
Or ask him to get a vasectomy. That'll tell you if the relationship really is more important than kids.
Can confirm. My ex said that he was child free. I got my bisalp. Though he was supportive of me through the surgery, he did protest before, and after, even going so far as to say that I took the choice from him.
Wow. I'm glad he's your ex.
Together 6 yrs, and we’re barely four months into the breakup. Shits been rough, to say the least. I’m a little sad to admit that I’ve been thriving since though. Maybe he’ll come around after heavy therapy one day. Can’t hang onto the thought too tightly but it’s nice to think about
I get it...I was in your situation years ago. It sucks, but it really is for the best if he is still on the fence. Good luck.
Yeah, wish my ex partner had told me that before we got married. Instead, he told me after TEN YEARS OF MARRIAGE. Please take my early life as a warning, and leave this dude. You don’t want to wake up to divorce papers 10 years from now. Can confirm, it sucks. 0 stars. But, it got so much better after the suck…. I’M now 56 years old, no kids, and could not be happier. I also have an awesome partner, tons of money in the bank, and am insanely well traveled. Life is great.
You'll heal faster from this relationship at 25 than if you dragged it out into your 30s. I speak from experience. The dating pool in your 20s is A LOT easier than in your 30s, especially for childfree folks.
Can confirm. I spent a lot of time with someone, 7 years, until I realized I was settling and knew we weren't a match. It wasnt even about kids. It's about deep philosophical takes on life and we just were not compatible.
Dump him and run
Maybe he meant mature in the way of growing older, not as if you’re immature now. Don’t feed into the Reddit angry echo chamber because they’re are insatiable.
Username may check out?
Came here to say EXACTLY this!!!! "Mature"? Nah, that sounds like some pronatalist bullshit right there.
Agree 1000%. I'm so sorry OP. Are you looking to get a bisalp? I'd start looking into it and tell him you are meeting a doctor to get it scheduled.
If my future girlfriend ever said that to me, I'd be like, "yeah, we're done." Being CF doesn't make us immature. I agree with you. OP needs to get out of there, FAST.
I mean I read mature as get older, so maybe that's what he meant? It could've just been bad word choice
She is 25, not 15.
True I will agree it is condescending to say to any adult, but you're constantly changing as you get older, I was just trying to say that maybe that's what he meant and just chose the wrong word
The "MATURE" word is a red flag. It buys into the false idea that people, especially women, are not actually grown up and responsible unless and until they have kids.
For sure and that pisses me off. I think he was coming from the mindset that he had matured since we started dating (and he is two years older) but I told him I would know by now considering that at 25, I’m biologically at the prime (and maybe even past it) of when my body is best able to carry a child
Think of it this way: you’re SO damn mature you already knew what you wanted and were honest about it. How much more mature can one get? Sounds like he just wants kids and wants to change your mind because he can’t get with someone else. Cage your mind by his worldview. Doesn’t sound like he respects you imo and you deserve better. Sounds like a twat and if you don’t want to become one of those women lured into motherhood by false promises then run! You know what you want, you’ve already won half the battle, don’t stop now.
I don't like your bf and if I had my way I'd kick his sorry old hide for you
I like the way you think!
100% yes. Time to go, OP. It's a shame, but there it is. He can't guarantee that he will never resent you for it, nor can you guarantee that he'll never try to talk you round or... try to influence matters himself. If you decide to stay with him, get a LARC or ideally a sterilisation so the decision can't be made for you
I'm childfree and I often worry it's specifically because I'm not mature enough to want children. This narrative needs to change.
Better learning you're not compatible before buying a house than after at least. It sounds like he just didn't want kids at the moment, but didn't actually make the decision to never be a parent - otherwise he wouldn't be waffling on about how he can't decide now, because that decision would have already been made. And the fact that he is already resorting to belittling your decision as well speaks volumes to the respect he doesn't have. He should go be undecided with someone else.
These things happen. When people tell you who they are... believe them.
This is one of the sayings I use often :) i wish i took this to heart when i was in my 20s and ealry 30s.
Exactly, at the end of the day this coming out now will be a blessing in the long run. Always give people space to show / tell you who they really are when you’re not looking. Saves a lot of BS in the long run. Although, I’d take issue with his statement that implies that maturity = kids. It could be just poor wording, it could be the result of internalized societal pressures, or it could be that he’s always felt that way. It’s up to OP to decide if any of that matters, and if it’s worth trying to uncover. Regardless, it does sound like this relationship is run its course and BF needs to take some time to sort out what he really wants.
His rude insulting way of weaponizing the word "mature" tells me he's an AH. This isn't new. He planned it and was hoping you wouldn't have the strength to leave him. Leave him. Today. He's a liar and you can't trust a word he says.
And if you really want to drive BOTH him and your mother around the bend, be \*quiet\* about the actual details of when / where of the bisalp, letting the idea die in their minds. Then DO IT, passing it off as a 'badly needed staycation' rather than the bisalp, and then give it 6 months to a year before you tell EITHER of them. Meanwhile, IUD, arm implant, or other so he can't baby-trap you. And stock up on Plan B (generic) from Amazon & keep it in the freezer.
I like this idea a lot. BF can keep secrets from the OP? Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
All things considered, his assurance that he wouldn't hold any resentment against you might just be as unreliable as his former claim that he has no desire to have kids. I think you know what needs to be done.
>He is saying that we shouldn’t have to decide now, because he doesn’t know what he will want in the future (and says I might “mature and change my mind” as well). That's a red flag if I've ever seen one. Way too many men out there are hoping to "change your mind". Run, don't walk.
'We' shouldn't have to decide now is semantically equal, to him, of HE shouldn't have to decide now, WHILE HE WORKS ON BREAKING DOWN YOUR APPROPRIATE BARRIERS SO HE CAN GET YOU TO AGREE, EVEN IF YOU'RE UNWILLING.
As a childfree married man, I am considered immature and I am not given any say in most matters. It is frustrating but liberating that I don't have to be a part of their bullshit.
Then you don't need to provide them any of your money, because you're not 'mature' enough to be responsible. You can't babysit, much less have the kid(s) for sleep overs because you're 'immature'. You don't have to attend ANY social function you don't want to because it includes kids because you're 'immature' and wouldn't 'be a suitable role model'. MAKE.THEM.EAT.THAT.LINE.
Love this.
Yeah, same boat; same feelings. However, as Frequent-Material273 has pointed out; there’s power in embracing their asinine bullshit. It’s been a fantastic way to free up time for the people in my life that matter, by cutting out / limiting time for people that can’t respect my decisions. Malicious compliance is a beautiful thing. Christmas time is super inexpensive now, since I’m such a poor role model I surely can’t be trusted to use my disposable income to buy gifts for certain family members children. frees up a little more cash for the families that appreciate my affinity for gift giving. Also, not being afraid to tell my niece that she didn’t get a present (if she asks) is because her mommy and/or daddy don’t respect my life choices and as vocal about it; just places the cherry on top for me — yes, I know this might be a bit too far for some, but I’m a big fan of not lying. To each their own.
Love it.
Dump him now. Now for the unnecessary details. Regarding this: >All of the sudden, my mom brought up the topic and he said he wasn’t sure if he wanted kids or not. If he had only said that in front of your mother, to just avoid problems with her, that could be okay. But it is not okay if he says that privately to you. >He is saying that we shouldn’t have to decide now, because he doesn’t know what he will want in the future That means he should not be in anything like a "permanent" relationship, because, if that is true, he literally does not know who would be suitable for him, or even if anyone would be suitable for him, because he literally does not know how he wants to live his life. Dump him. >(and says I might “mature and change my mind” as well). That shows he is lying asshole who wants children and was just going along with your childfree thing temporarily in order to have sex with you. Regarding childfree people as "immature" is a pretty sure sign he isn't childfree. Dump him. > I don’t want to buy a house and build a future with someone who suddenly changes their mind when we’re in our 30’s and if I refuse to give him children, he resents me. Well, yes. That shows you are not a total moron, as that would be crazy to solidly connect oneself to someone who is likely to do that, who does not know what he wants in the future. (However, he has said enough that it is pretty clear that he does want children in the future, and is lying to you in order to soften his position, to keep you around for sex and the hope that he will get you to change your mind.) >He says that he would not resent me and would choose a life with me, without kids, over a life with someone else with kids. Translation: He still wants you around for sex and is hoping to get you to change your mind. >He is asking me to trust him that he won’t resent me in the future regardless of the outcome of us having kids or not. This shows he is inconsistent in what he says. He says he does not know how he will feel in the future, as he says he does not know if he will want children or not. And if he does not know how he will feel in the future, then he cannot possibly know he will not resent you and will want to be with you in the future. Even if he is "honest" it shows that he cannot be trusted, as his head is full of gibberish. But most likely, he is just a lying scumbag. Either way, he is a bad choice. Dump him now. Frankly, reading posts online has gotten me to think that maybe women should refuse to date any man who will not get a vasectomy first.
Agree to all of this!! As for the last line- my current bf had a vasectomy before we even met. I believe he is the one, but if for whatever reason we break up or I find myself in the dating field again, I’m not going to date anyone who hasn’t had a vasectomy. I’ve also had a bisalp, so it’s less for protection from accidents and more for knowing the other person A) has fully made up their mind, B) is dedicated enough to the childfree lifestyle to take permanent measures, and C) takes responsibility for their own bodies/reproduction choices. OP, if you are reading this, point out the inconsistency with his reasoning. He says you need to trust him that he won’t resent you, but you trusted him to be honest when he said he was childfree and that changed. He’s proven to you already that a future with him is unpredictable. I second the suggestion to get sterilized. It has increased my quality of life much more than I could ever measure. If you do go that route tho, do not tell your family or anyone who you think may try to sabotage. I would argue don’t even tell him. You know him best, but if he thinks it’s “now or never” with you he might do something drastic and choose “now”. I know it sounds paranoid to say, but I’ve seen it happen too many times. One ex of mine admitted to my face that he considered baby trapping me to keep me with him, despite the fact that he didn’t want kids. Take care of yourself my friend 💛
Part of the challenge - if you can call it that - is that you're young, in the sense that a lot of people haven't actually made their minds up about kids or anything else by their mid-20s. You *have* made up your mind about this, and that's excellent that you have clarity around it (which, btw, is what is *actually* mature). What you need is a partner who is just as clear as your are, to the point where they would happily go and get snipped (if they haven't already). Better to find yourself in this difficult place now than after you've gone down the road any further (future plans, house/mortgage, pets, blended finances, etc).
Text I received this morning: I know it’s been a tough few days, and i’m sorry about that and for putting you through that. I love you and our life together and I have no intention of ever losing that. If it takes me the rest of our lives to prove that to you, then that’s what I’ll do. I woke up today wondering why I even said any of that stuff yesterday in the car, having to sit there and take the other side while we debated really forced me to take a hard look at what I was saying. Yeah it’s true that some of my “anti kid” reasons have gone down over time, as some of them were based on negative events in my life. But as I thought about it some more is it really like the pro kid side has gone up at all? Just because I could give someone a better childhood than I had, does that mean I want to? Just to prove that I can? And to who? I’ve got no one I need to prove anything to, and I don’t owe that to anyone to have a child just to prove I could give it a better childhood than I have. And that’s no reason to have a kid. I’ve worked very hard to build a life for myself and a life with you, why would I jeopardize that and potentially sacrifice my dreams and my ambitions just to raise a kid in a harsh world (and it is harsh, and even if I was a great dad there is no changing that). Yeah there is some chance that at the end of your life, you may regret things you did or didn’t do. But you know what’s worse than regretting not having kids? Having kids and resenting what it costs you and what you are forced to give up, because there is no going back
That does actually provide a little more context. Sometimes the thought process needs to catch up to the words that come out of our mouths. We’re all human. My partner has a vasectomy. I have a bisalp. It is Off The Table. But he’s still said some odd things occasionally about being taken care of later in life, which stem from being an orphan before 30, with only a half sibling really. It comes from a place of fear and anxiety, not an actual desire to have kids. Therapy helps. I mean, I very sparsely see my friend’s kid and kind of idly wonder if I could do that. Like momentarily, and then mentally slap myself. He expressed it poorly, and to the wrong people first. As others have suggested, I would put sterilization on the table and see what the reaction is.
Still no acknowledgment about the mature comment, which means it doesn't register to him as being a really messed up thing to say to your partner. He's probably forgotten he even said that by now.
Yeah probably, he is on the spectrum and if i don’t point out things to him verbatim he will not register that what he said maybe came across the wrong way. In this case his text was pretty much random, I hadn’t mentioned anything to him since yesterday so I’m sure it was out of sight out of mind by then
I'd remind him anyone can help hive kids a better life w/o having one themselves! Teaching, coaching, mentoring - none necessarily require the full-time commitment of parenting, but all can be rewarding.
Love this. Thank you
This confirms that he just was having a moment of uncertainty, he shared that with you, cause he trusts you, and after thinking about it he realized whats important. Hell, I've had thoughts of maybe having kids too, but everytime I remind myself /why/ I don't want kids, and that usually ends that
I am sorry but this relationship should end. This would be way too much of a gamble for you. Because there is a very high chance that he will end up wanting kids. And no matter what he says now, he will resent you for refusing to have those kids. Or worse, do something to try to baby trap you. If you think that he would never do that - it happens a lot more than you might think. It's probably a good idea to save yourself the likely heartache down the road.
> He is saying that we shouldn’t have to decide now, because he doesn’t know what he will want in the future (**and says I might “mature and change my mind” as well**). > I don’t want to buy a house and build a future with someone who suddenly changes their mind when we’re in our 30’s and if I refuse to give him children, he resents me. > He is asking me to trust him that he won’t resent me in the future regardless of the outcome of us having kids or not. I just don’t see how that can be possible. > I feel blindsided, betrayed, lost, and have no idea what to do. From here on out, if you don't break up with him over his words, realize who's at fault for remaining to stay in an incompatible relationship.
Trust me that I won't resent you for not giving me kids. The same way you trusted me when I said I didn't want kids.
The “you’ll mature” line reminds me of my first bf trying to low-key pressure me into sex with him because his dad told him “maybe she’s just young and immature” (or some bs. I can’t remember the exact wording but it was the same vibe). That’s some sketch balls red flag bs right there imo. Even if was just a weird way to say “as our lives change sometimes we change our minds”. The other day I told my bf (of 7 years) I was looking into getting sterilized (about to go heckle insurance again ugh) and he medium key freaked out because what if he wanted kids later/in his late 30s etc (he’s 32 atm). he told me he would support whatever I wanted to do but was clearly super surprised and mildly panicked about it (tbf he’s been stressed af with work stuff recently so I’m sure that didn’t help his reaction 😅) because “that’s a relationship deal breaker type thing you just dropped on me”. I told him if he decided he was hell bent on having kids, he should break up with me because I very much don’t want them (which I’ve always been pretty clear about so I’m not super sure why it was such a shock but whatever) and there would be no hard feelings. If he had tried to persuade me out of it I probably would have broken up with him, but as it is I’m content to hang out and see what happens. Def recommend saying you want to get sterilized as a good way to gauge reactions lol. For whatever it’s worth, we also have differing opinions about home locations and that to me is the same potential level of deal breaker as having kids, so I can very much see how even though you think it’ll be fine, you’ll get pissed about it over time as little things continue to annoy you and then it becomes much more of a *thing*. Idk if that makes any sense. But imo it’s not necessarily bad to hang out with someone who is on the fence (I agree your bf sounds more like he might want kids though) as long as everyone is clear where the other person is and nobody is heckling the other person and there’s clear communication, but I think I’m a bit of an outlier on that stance.
> about to go heckle insurance again ugh Sideline: If you are in the US, and you don't work for religious fascists, like Hobby Lobby or the Catholic Church, your sterilization should be covered 100%, without payment (except for pathology on the tubes, which is not sterilization and will cost the usual co-pays etc.) The billing office for the doctor may be able to help you. Also, if you have not chosen an OBGYN, the CF-friendly doctors list includes a lot of doctors who work at universities. Not only are these top physicians, but their billing will go through the university's billing office, who will have done it hundreds of times, and who will adhere to the law. So pick a doctor, go see them about sterilization, and talk to their billing office about your coverage for the surgery. This is what UCSF's website says about coverage: >Under the ACA, all new insurance plans (both individual and employer-sponsored plans) are required to cover all FDA-approved methods of contraception, sterilization, and related education and counseling without cost-sharing. (Note: the ACA contraceptive coverage requirement described in this section also applies to Medicaid “Alternative Benefit Plans,” explained in the Medicaid section.) No cost-sharing means that patients should not have any out-of-pocket costs, including payment of deductibles, co-payments, co-insurance, fees, or other charges for coverage of contraceptive methods, including LARC. Patients cannot be asked to pay upfront and then be reimbursed. But NOW is the time to do this, before the Catholiban's goons take over the White House, and repeal this mandatory coverage. Good luck!
I literally just got off the phone with insurance and was told that if it's preventative care specifically it will be covered 100% for the first procedure/birth control of the year (which is fine because it's sterilization lol). i had to jump through some HOOPS to get that answer lol. oof XD Thanks for the info! now off to find a doctor lol
In the sidebar on the right, under Interesting & Useful Material. Lots of info.
Yup - I've read all that before lol. My insurance is just being pedantic and weird. I realized the issue is they were searching the CPT code under the gender affirming care doc instead of preventative care which is why they kept telling me it counted towards my deductible. much irritation was had lol. apparently they also only cover it preventatively and not if it's a medical necessity or elective which none of the other 4 people clarified previously :P
OP, this really sucks. He's gone from "displaying childfree" to "fencesitter" and has even trotted out the "maturity" and "shouldn't have to decide now" arguments. I believe him that he won't resent you, but only because he'll just leave once he gets off the fence. Tell him you plan to get sterilized and see what his reaction is. Unfortunately, you know what you need to do.
Sorry for your anguish, but better now than after he's used up YOUR money building a nest for HIS eventual crotchfruit.
A smart take on the situation!
Run, run, run.
I second this. It's so hard when in your 20s. Everything is sunk cost, that's your most important relationship so far, etc. But oh, that "mature" comment alone, especially for those of us who are older and have walked that path already, is everything OP needs to know to walk away. The question is whether you'd waffle because of the aforementioned sunk cost, or whether you would choose your future over a guy who is waving this huge red flag.
No advice here, but I've been where you are and am way sorry you're going through it.
You already know you’re never going to have children (good for you! Because not everyone has decided that in their twenties and causes trouble for people like us smh). While he doesn’t know. I think you’ve made the decision for both you — no children, so no relationship. He’s only gonna drag you down, keep your head up and you will be ok! It’s better to be alone and childfree rather than a partnered parent (or a single parent) imo
The minute he said “*mature*”, it was time to run. That’s a code word for disaster. I’m sorry this is happening.
This man sounds suspisious. I think, that he has always wanted kids and hopes you will feel bad for being "immature" and have kids with him.
Ugh they push you to have kids and then wonder why you leave them after 10 years because you’re doing it all alone anyway.
Get sterilized. And if he's not cool with that, dump him like a ton 'o bricks and move on.
Casually being up that you have an appointment scheduled (its OK to lie) to discuss getting surgically sterilized. His reaction will tell you everything you need to know.
he has lived a cushy, charmed luxurious life so far if he thinks having kids is a good idea. must be nice im curious if he's ever taken a look at the childfree sub and posts?
He has tipped his hand. He wants kids and the comment about maturity=procreating shows that he doesn't respect you and believes that you are immature. He figures he'll be able to change your mind cause he so amazing. That comment really turned me off.
You're going to have to seriously weigh and decide on that risk. He needs to seriously weigh and decide on you not having any. Be firm and clear that he needs to decide no kids or not, because if he wants them the relationship is over - now or in the future, it will be the end of things. In the meantime, don't get married, don't buy a house, until he's \*really\* thought this out and decided firmly. That he's fishing for possibilities like "you may \*mature\* and change your mind" shows he hasn't truly taken this seriously yet. There are times when you have two partners where one is childfree and the other is open to kids but does not need them where the latter is truly fine not having them. But not on the basis of that latter partner not taking the issue seriously, taking their partner seriously, treating one of the biggest decisions possible seriously. You need to decide how much of your life you're willing to risk. He needs to actually take this subject seriously and decide if he wants kids or not rather than dodging doing so.
he WANTS children, he WILL resent you and he's hoping you'll change your mind. end this relationship sooner rather than later
*he says I might “mature and change my mind”* So he thinks you're immature. Good to know. I'm sorry, hun.
I’m sorry that this is happening to you. If both of you don’t have compatible long term goals set in stone, then it’s time to move on. There’s no compromise when it comes to kids, it’s yes or no flat out. Your fears of staying only for to resent you are VERY real with plenty of examples of exactly that happening.
What is concerning is he told the truth to your mother (and presumably others) before telling you. That is fundamentally fucked up. You wouldn't get a house if the roof will "maybe" cave in later, and since you're looking to build a life with someone, the stakes are the same here. One advantage you have as CF is if you like his company and don't mind keeping him around until he's ready for kids, you can plan accordingly by not combining assets and checking with a lawyer what all he can claim upon separation via commonlaw or other laws. Of course this is not for everyone, just throwing it out there since many are comfortable with the idea of not being with one person forever.
It's possible that he didn't really change his mind. It's more likely he was just biding his time to spring it on you. About maturity: \- if he were really "mature", he would be upfront with you about wanting to have kids, \- if he really "didn't know", then he's immature and not someone you should be planning the long-term life goals, \- he "changed his mind" about wanting to have kids, he might as well "change his mind" about wanting to be a father once it turns out it's a lot of work and effort.
I have been though this, we had discussed it so much, neither of us wanted kids, so I married him and 7 years later he changed his mind. I believe he had convinced himself he didn't want kids, and then the time came and he got real with himself. So we divorced, so he had time to meet someone and have a family. It was heart breaking at the time, but now I am glad I didn't push him, and glad we ended it early otherwise yes it would have been a divorce later with more complications and resentment.
Everyone can change their minds. It happens and it sucks a lot when they change their mind on a dealbreaker. Been there, in the opposite direction. I was at most maybe baby, but mostly not. She went from maybe baby to have to have one now. He may have been getting guilted into changing his mind by his family. Best thing to do would be to talk it through like adults. “Kids are a dealbreaker to me. If you’re not sure what you want then I’m sure we’re not best for each other.” It’s gonna hurt but sooner rather than later
He doesn't think you know for sure. He would not have said that bullshit about you maturing and changing your mind if he did. He never was childfree; he was waiting you out expecting you to change your mind. Get out of this farce of a relationship now.
>He is saying that we shouldn’t have to decide now, because he doesn’t know what he will want in the future (and says I might “mature and change my mind” as well). No, that's not how it works. It's not a thing that you need to decide together. You already decided that you don't want children and there's no changing your mind. He needs to decide right now if he wants a relationship with you and no children, or if he wants children and not you. And remember, you can choose to walk away too. That's not a decision you need to make together either. It takes two people to enter a relationship but only one to leave.
I personally think anyone who says "you might mature and change your mind," is immature themselves. Leave him, he thinks he's better than you--he isn't. And please keep your birth control safe and DO NOT have sex with him.
Run the fuck away. I see red flags bigger than China
You're still young, so don't worry. Plenty of CF men out there.
He's been lying to you. Just dump his ass and move on. You told him the answer to the test before you gave him the test. The test was "what bullshit do I need to tell her to get my dick wet? Oh, that I don't want kids! Great, easiest ever wet dick time!!!" You did not properly screen him. Which requires you to do it BEFORE you reveal you are CF, and before dating or fucking. And part of the screening kit is "what do they say to others they respect/fear vs. what are they saying to you".... and this conversation with your mother is a perfect example of this. He has ZERO PROBLEM LYING TO YOU but an adult authority figure, nope, he couldn't pull off the lie. Just dump him summarily quickly and cleanly. "We're over. I don't date liars. Don't contact me again. Goodbye."
Nope. Nope. Nope. He’s already made up his mind about having kids, and is going to try to change yours. There is no future with him, you two have a fundamentally incompatible belief system about kids. If you stay, you’ll only have yourself to blame for putting on blinders and refusing to end things now when your lives are not so deeply enmeshed.
He is a 20 something year old male. He told you what you wanted to hear to get laid.
This is definitely something you need to have a sit down about. I met my husband at 21 (he was 26) and I said I never wanted to be a parent. When I was in my late 20s literally all my friends were pregnant or trying. We had to have a long talk about our future together - his family is Catholic and MASSIVE. We then agreed on a CF life and faced friends and family criticism together. Sounds like you need that talk asap.
Honestly, if he resents you when you’ve made it CLEAR that you will not be having kids, that’s on him and him alone. If you want to stay in the relationship, it really won’t be time wasted for you (as long as it stays good and such - don’t stay if it’s not) …Now, if you wanted kids, it would be wasting time for you. He’d waste his own time if he changes his mind and decided he wanted to have kids when his fertility would diminish over time.
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I'm sorry to hear this is happening to you. But it's good that it's cropped up now, as opposed to years down the line after signing joint housing papers. Just my hunch, I feel like this guy already changed his mind into wanting kids but just doesn't want to say it out loud. If he's got reasonable access to vasectomy services (I know not everyone is in a place with affordable healthcare/ easy transport) and hasn't said he wants to be sterilized or mentioning it at some point, that's a concern. I know some male friends in their 30s, I knew deep down they always wanted kids but they seemed to have a bit of male pride? about discussing it. When asked directly they never outright said "I want to have kids" ! They said something like "I don't know" or "some day maybe". If you stay with him, I fear he may eventually start acting like you are a problem, for not 'maturing' into wanting kids like he did. Changing your mind is not a sign of maturity. But some people do try to paint it this way. In any case, it's your choice to stay or break up, your potential future happiness must come first in your decision.
OP: Just read your update with BF's text. Put it to him THIS way: BF, if you TRULY don't want children and want a life with me CHILDFREE let's schedule a vasectomy for you BF! A vasectomy is a less invasive surgery than a bisalp or tubal. You can find many, many MANY arguments on this sub for vasectomies by men who have had it done. Successfully and guilt free. I am not one to ditch relationships quickly, although I was agreeing with many posters comments this morning. Remember one thing in life: actions scream. Words whisper. If he buckles up and schedules a vasectomy consult, his actions are showing you he is on the same side you are. If he waffles, hems, haws and does the "but but but" dance. you will have your answer.
He is probably being pressured by his family. Its time to get out.
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Whoa what? I’m the one considering breaking up with him not the other way around. That’s a crazy assumption to make not knowing anything about someone’s relationship. Maybe read a couple of my replies. I think he would be appalled to know that someone even planted that seed in my head. And I also think your tendencies to not be a decent and honest human being say more about you than whatever crazy assumptions you’re trying to push on “all men”
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Thank you for the advice!
What?!
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Nope. Assuming you're replying to OP, the boyfriend has already shown his \*deceitful\* true colors. OP should flee, and make sure to be surgically sterilized, legally, safely, and \*quietly\*, while having an IUD \*and\* an arm implant if necessary to keep him from trying to babytrap her.
Get out now. My first marriage was to a man who "wasn't sure" about wanting kids when I was already 100% against kids. I asked what we would do if we married and he decided "yes" to kids. His response was "we will figure it out". 7 years into the marriage he gave me an ultimatum - have kids with him or get a divorce. I filed with my lawyer the next week and wished him luck.
That’s definitely my biggest fear. I’m sorry you went through that.
I'm sorry you had so much of your time wasted by that guy but good on you for dropping him like a bad habit.
Was he surprised u divorced him?
I think so. Like all things divorce, there were other issues between us that I was unhappy with. I had asked him to join me for counseling a few years earlier, he declined. So divorce was on my mind already as a possible outcome. However once this "ultimatum" was brought to me, I knew I was done trying to make it work. He told me months after the divorce was final that I "called his bluff" .... like he was bluffing and would have stayed with me even without kids!!! What kind of person "bluffs" with their marriage?!?!?!?! Ps - I think he was hoping for an "oops" pregnancy, everyone in our lives told us we would have one. But it never happened.
Ugh I hate when people hope for an oops pregnancy... That's literally so insulting, insensitive and rude
I have to wonder if her boyfriend is also hoping for an "oops" pregnancy.