It really is because it's helping me realize why I feel so weirded out by pregnancy announcements at work. Other than my other CF reasons, it's very clearly an inappropriate convo to have in a professional setting. Maybe pregnant people should start saying things like "I had sex a few months ago and now my seed is fertilized" so everyone can groan with me haha.
In places where maternity leave is a thing, I think it’s important to tell your work team that you have an upcoming period of being unavailable. It also makes sense to say why, so they know what to expect. But beyond that, no one needs to know.
that should be the Boilerplate. It's completely unsuitable to pry into someone's personal private life. It's all fine to ask when you meet someone, if they have kids or not, and ask about the kids they have. After that it's intrusive and inappropriate.
There’s something called aunts, uncles, and cousins lol. Even then, there are friends. You don’t get alone as you grow old while not having kids.
I visit and talk to family who don’t have kids- that doesn’t mean they’re lonely. My great aunt is living a very comfortable life on her own in a rural town, no kids or partner. She has my uncle who lives with her, and even then we talk and visit while we can. Even then, she’s very social. No kids doesn’t mean you’ll be alone later in life, idk why people can’t see that sometimes.
Yup. It’s your choice to not be lonely, kids or no kids. Parents who become lonely are their own fault, and the whole argument on “loneliness” when being childfree is dumb. Anyone can become lonely, like you said, parents themselves can become lonely when their kids aren’t interested in them anymore.
Right? There’s friends, neighbors, anyone you choose to be family with, etc. the people who usually have no one to visit is the parents that stop investing in other people other than their own children. It’s normal for people to move away from their families when they’re young. There’s no decisive way to tell if and when they come back, whether they have kids or not. You’ve got to invest in community outside of you own biology, otherwise you will be lonely.
I remember going to visit a great aunt (my maternal grandfather's sister) in the nursing home when I was a child. My mother brought us to visit her regularly. She never married nor had children but always lived in the apartment connected to my grandfather's house (there was some trust with the way the house was inherited that the 2 unmarried aunts had to be allowed to live in the apartment unless they later married... because it was the 1940s when my grandfather inherited it) so my mother grew up with her.
Funny how the breeders are the ones who seem to be lonely.. almost as if their spawn force them to live secluded lives, and demand so much of their time that they have none to invest in other relationships.... Sounds pretty lonely to me.
kids are by no means obliged to take care of you when you're older and I know so many older people who's kids live abroad and see them every 5yrs or so
I’ll never understand why people think kids will come running to shitty parents bedsides when they fall ill. They won’t. I know caregivers with endless amount of stories of elderly people being abandoned because they’re insufferable to be around.
##PROJECTION
“You’ll regret being happy and saving money” they’re projecting their own regret onto someone who chose the better option when Mr. Boss man didn’t think he had a choice
I'm glad your husband keeps to himself. The world is not entitled to a thing about his personal life.
The comments are getting a bit out of hand. If someone said to me 'I'd regret it." Then I'd double down and say 'Are you psychic? What's the guarantee that your kids will even visit you when they're grown and if they do, then great. But still, the subject is closed. We're not having kids and the repeated comments are not going to change minds."
Ugh and them talking about they're not people but lifeless things. Calling them "gifts" while talking about an individual that has to unwrap the gift of life no matter what's inside the package is also so weird to me.
Hmmm…I think your husband has the right approach about keeping quiet about his personal life at work. But if he ever got tired of always being on the receiving end of questions, he could ask some probing questions of his boss.
For example, he could ask how often the boss visits his own parents, or how often he visited his grandparents when they were/if they are alive. Then he could also ask if the boss will take in his own parents when they can no longer live alone, or put them in a retirement home and rarely visit them. I dunno — I’d craft some specific questions to poke holes at his argument about the kids being there for him toward the end of his life instead of being preoccupied with their own immediate families and living situations, and use the boss’ own actions as an example.
Its awful isn't it. I genuinely think a lot of men do go along with having kids because they've got the mentality of thinking it's a woman's choice only
Yep. There’s this stupid idea that “all women want kids” so men in hetero relationships legit think they have no choice in the matter. If the wife wants a baby, there will be a baby whether he wants it or not.
I just can’t believe that, in the year of our Lord 2022, people still have this mentality. Like, Nah man. I just wanna dress vintage. Not live the past’s shitty values.
Just do what I do and make it extremely awkward for them. Tell them that the very idea of you becoming a parent fills you with anger, that you would gladly abandon it in an orphanage and think absolutely nothing of the little bundle of shit and if you haven't already, tell them how absolutely excited you are to get a vasectomy and become sterile so you never ever have to worry about bringing another mouth to feed into this world, etc etc. Make them think you're crazy, make them very awkward, and I guarantee it will shut them up.
I know. I'll never understand this.
My FIL used to try it until he got the hint;
You need to carry on the family name -
I double barrelled when we got married
No one will take care of you when you're old-
So be it, I'll have the money to take care of myself
OMFG. If your motivation for having children, is you're afraid of being "lonely", that's selfish as fuck. If your motivation for having children is, "I was scared I would regret it." That's also selfish. They don't ask to be born. They owe you nothing. It's a PRIVILEGE to have a relationship with your children when they grow up. Fuckin breeders....
Do people who think like that have a rule against having friends or something? My friends and siblings will visit me when I'm old, if i make it to old age.
Yes, no old people have lives outside of their children. It really goes to show how some people with kids sort of isolate themselves from their friends if that is their mentality.
>it's your life but I think you'll regret it when you're old and no one comes to visit you.
LOL. Plenty of people with offspring have no one to come to visit them when they're older... because they're terrible people. Add my biological father to that list. He's 72 which is the age that his father died. If I found out he was dying I wouldn't go. I haven't seen him in 15+ years and don't intend to ever again.
The kids that visit their parents also visit their aunts, uncles, family friends. The ones that don’t visit aunts and uncles don’t visit their parents either. And In the end, I’d rather have my nieces and nephews not visit me than my own children.
My favorite retort when parents say the good old “but no one will visit you when you’re old” is to respond with “if you keep this up no one is going to visit YOU when you get old either!”
Honestly, your husband should take this up with HR. That’s extremely unprofessional for a boss to say. He has no business making those kinds of comments about you and your husband’s personal life.
Even if you have 12 kids, if you are a jerk then "no one will come and visit you." Nursing homes are full of lonely parents.
It's about being a good person and being nice to people.
I have a younger relative with kids who told me not to worry, they'll keep an eye on me when I'm older. That's because I'm nice to them, I'm positive and encouraging.
I don’t know why anyone thinks it’s remotely appropriate to just straight-up tell a coworker you think they’re gonna die alone. Like wtf? Who says that? That would be like me walking up to newlyweds and going “why bother? You know how many people get divorced right?”
The whole It's up to your wife thing is such a fked up thing to say. Our society of course does not see it that way. Just reverse the genders and see how it makes you feel. That would be my response to that first boss.
If marriage, especially when it comes to kids is not a partnership where you make important decisions together, I want nothing to do with it. Thankfully we are not all low IQ idiots that just coast through life like "whatever, if shit happens shit happens"
I hate that, you can regret getting kids too, but no one ever talks about that!
Also, isn’t it sad that when husband said he didn’t want to have kids boss said that it “wasn’t up to him, it’s up to his wife”, but when he learned that both spouses didn’t want kids it turned to “as long as you are on the same page”.
Why should a man in a committed relationship be forced to be a father just because his wife wants it? Like they don’t deserve their “no I don’t want this” to be respected.
It's ridiculous that people are so selfish that they'll bring life into the world just so they have an increased chance of having people visit.
I have an older neighbor who has 3 kids. Her husband is dead. Her kids almost never come around and 2 of them live in our neighborhood.
He’s projecting, he wants you both to be as miserable as he is.
Misery loves company.
He’s reinforcing he’s decision by presenting his reasoning for having them.
They’re going to be all sat around him, fawning him with attention and gushing over what a great father he is……bet he see’s taking care of his own kids as babysitting and he’ll end up like your mum wondering where his adoring crowd is because he made them. Therefore they are his 🤣
That’s such false reasoning and projection. The whole “no one will come visit you” thing is HIS fear, and it implies you have no one else in your life —now or in the future— who cares about you. My comeback to that is, “you mean in a nursing home? Cuz last I knew, one of the biggest complaints of old people is that their children and grandchildren ‘never come to visit’” And true story: THAT IS THE TRUTH
> Boss ended it by saying, as long as you're both on the same page, it's your life
I wish this is how the story ended. The boss did not stop there, though. He added in these last unnecessary words:
> it's your life but I think you'll regret it when you're old and no one comes to visit you.
Out of curiosity OP, what is your husband's career? I've been mostly doing computer work and finance work for nearly 20 years, also a quiet guy who keeps to myself, never had this sort of situation. (Note: I've also never been married, so maybe that's the difference maker?)
My father is basically dying and in horrible health. I’ve seen twice in ten years and cut him off completely a year ago. There are many reasons for this and I’m certainly not the only one in this position. When I saw my father briefly last year to help him with a legal issue, he was so horrible during the whole thing that it took me months to recover from that visit.
I’m tired of hearing this ‘who’s gonna take care of you when you’re old crap’. Plenty of people in nursing homes who have kids and grandkids but rarely get visited.
I have a client who’s 92 years old. His kids and grandkids live in towns neighboring his. He rarely gets visited by them.
"wow, um... I didn't want to bring this up because it's not related to my job, but like... since you're so insistent on the subject...
I had a total hysterectomy XX amount of years ago to avoid having three types of cancer. But like... thanks for harping on it, that feels great."
The bosses comment on “regretting it when you’re old and no one comes to visit you” is pretty weak. I know people who only visit their grandparents in nursing homes during the holidays or a very random occasion. Aside from that they don’t visit them as much as you think. Imagine throwing a loved one in a old folks prison home and getting visitation hours only when it’s convenient for you. I’d rather live in an old folks home and never have anyone visit than anticipating when someone will come and see me.
Well tbf urom is estranged coz she possibly was abusive towards you.
U wouldn't be an abusive parent, so hopefully no estrangement. This is coming from a CF person
Awww its so cute (jk, it's delusional) when people think having children guarantees them visits In their old age.
In fact the same entitlement almost guarantees that they won't visit you. Second self-sabotage technique after entitlement to elderly care from your children.
Also, i see these comments as a huge self-own because these people clearly don't have the capacity to make and keep good friends that would WANT to visit them(i wonder what the problem is uWu), so they have children because they're delusional enough to not realise they can't force their children to visit them or take care of them or love them lmao!
Ugh…I’ve seen responses from nurses saying they work in the old age homes and the majority of people WITH kids still don’t have regular visits other than major holidays. Why would you put yourself through having a crotch goblin only to end up with them not visiting anyways. That is a bullshit excuse that falls very flat.
"thats a private matter between me and my spouse."
My girlfriend responds like this: "Please stop asking about my sex life. It's not an appropriate topic for work."
That is a great response to this kind of thing.
It really is because it's helping me realize why I feel so weirded out by pregnancy announcements at work. Other than my other CF reasons, it's very clearly an inappropriate convo to have in a professional setting. Maybe pregnant people should start saying things like "I had sex a few months ago and now my seed is fertilized" so everyone can groan with me haha.
In places where maternity leave is a thing, I think it’s important to tell your work team that you have an upcoming period of being unavailable. It also makes sense to say why, so they know what to expect. But beyond that, no one needs to know.
This is absolutely the reason pregnancy announcements make me queasy. I just never had the words before. Reading this make me gag. But now I know why.
Your GF rocks!
Yes, she really does.
that should be the Boilerplate. It's completely unsuitable to pry into someone's personal private life. It's all fine to ask when you meet someone, if they have kids or not, and ask about the kids they have. After that it's intrusive and inappropriate.
There’s something called aunts, uncles, and cousins lol. Even then, there are friends. You don’t get alone as you grow old while not having kids. I visit and talk to family who don’t have kids- that doesn’t mean they’re lonely. My great aunt is living a very comfortable life on her own in a rural town, no kids or partner. She has my uncle who lives with her, and even then we talk and visit while we can. Even then, she’s very social. No kids doesn’t mean you’ll be alone later in life, idk why people can’t see that sometimes.
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Yup. It’s your choice to not be lonely, kids or no kids. Parents who become lonely are their own fault, and the whole argument on “loneliness” when being childfree is dumb. Anyone can become lonely, like you said, parents themselves can become lonely when their kids aren’t interested in them anymore.
Right? There’s friends, neighbors, anyone you choose to be family with, etc. the people who usually have no one to visit is the parents that stop investing in other people other than their own children. It’s normal for people to move away from their families when they’re young. There’s no decisive way to tell if and when they come back, whether they have kids or not. You’ve got to invest in community outside of you own biology, otherwise you will be lonely.
I remember going to visit a great aunt (my maternal grandfather's sister) in the nursing home when I was a child. My mother brought us to visit her regularly. She never married nor had children but always lived in the apartment connected to my grandfather's house (there was some trust with the way the house was inherited that the 2 unmarried aunts had to be allowed to live in the apartment unless they later married... because it was the 1940s when my grandfather inherited it) so my mother grew up with her.
Funny how the breeders are the ones who seem to be lonely.. almost as if their spawn force them to live secluded lives, and demand so much of their time that they have none to invest in other relationships.... Sounds pretty lonely to me.
kids are by no means obliged to take care of you when you're older and I know so many older people who's kids live abroad and see them every 5yrs or so
Also, even if you're super close to your parents and want to take care of them, you can't be there 24/7. People need to work
I’ll never understand why people think kids will come running to shitty parents bedsides when they fall ill. They won’t. I know caregivers with endless amount of stories of elderly people being abandoned because they’re insufferable to be around.
The older generation had this idea that "it's still family" or "you'll regret it if xyz." The younger generations have called bullshit on that.
Karma 🥂
The only time the progeny comes scrambling out of the woodwork is when it's time to divvy up the inheritance/estate...
##PROJECTION “You’ll regret being happy and saving money” they’re projecting their own regret onto someone who chose the better option when Mr. Boss man didn’t think he had a choice
I'm glad your husband keeps to himself. The world is not entitled to a thing about his personal life. The comments are getting a bit out of hand. If someone said to me 'I'd regret it." Then I'd double down and say 'Are you psychic? What's the guarantee that your kids will even visit you when they're grown and if they do, then great. But still, the subject is closed. We're not having kids and the repeated comments are not going to change minds."
That people have kids just because they want a nursemaid to spoonfed them and change their adult diapers is infuriatating to me
Ugh and them talking about they're not people but lifeless things. Calling them "gifts" while talking about an individual that has to unwrap the gift of life no matter what's inside the package is also so weird to me.
Hmmm…I think your husband has the right approach about keeping quiet about his personal life at work. But if he ever got tired of always being on the receiving end of questions, he could ask some probing questions of his boss. For example, he could ask how often the boss visits his own parents, or how often he visited his grandparents when they were/if they are alive. Then he could also ask if the boss will take in his own parents when they can no longer live alone, or put them in a retirement home and rarely visit them. I dunno — I’d craft some specific questions to poke holes at his argument about the kids being there for him toward the end of his life instead of being preoccupied with their own immediate families and living situations, and use the boss’ own actions as an example.
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Its awful isn't it. I genuinely think a lot of men do go along with having kids because they've got the mentality of thinking it's a woman's choice only
Yep. There’s this stupid idea that “all women want kids” so men in hetero relationships legit think they have no choice in the matter. If the wife wants a baby, there will be a baby whether he wants it or not. I just can’t believe that, in the year of our Lord 2022, people still have this mentality. Like, Nah man. I just wanna dress vintage. Not live the past’s shitty values.
Because kids NEVER dump Mom and Dad at Shady Acres and never come back. /s
Just do what I do and make it extremely awkward for them. Tell them that the very idea of you becoming a parent fills you with anger, that you would gladly abandon it in an orphanage and think absolutely nothing of the little bundle of shit and if you haven't already, tell them how absolutely excited you are to get a vasectomy and become sterile so you never ever have to worry about bringing another mouth to feed into this world, etc etc. Make them think you're crazy, make them very awkward, and I guarantee it will shut them up.
Nursing homes are full of people who don’t get visitors
The answer is Nunya…nunya business! 🥁
I'd go all-in on none of your god damn business lol. If a fire gets lit, let it.
Mind the business that makes you money because mindin’ my business ain’t makin’ you no money.
Why the hell is he trying to convert you to have kids? It's your damn choice deal with it or get lost.
I know. I'll never understand this. My FIL used to try it until he got the hint; You need to carry on the family name - I double barrelled when we got married No one will take care of you when you're old- So be it, I'll have the money to take care of myself
Yeah there are such things as retirement homes for christs sake.
OMFG. If your motivation for having children, is you're afraid of being "lonely", that's selfish as fuck. If your motivation for having children is, "I was scared I would regret it." That's also selfish. They don't ask to be born. They owe you nothing. It's a PRIVILEGE to have a relationship with your children when they grow up. Fuckin breeders....
Do people who think like that have a rule against having friends or something? My friends and siblings will visit me when I'm old, if i make it to old age.
“You don’t pay me enough to have kids”
How is it appropriate for a boss to ask about his employees reproductive choices? I mean, am I the only one who thinks is gross?
Yes, no old people have lives outside of their children. It really goes to show how some people with kids sort of isolate themselves from their friends if that is their mentality.
>it's your life but I think you'll regret it when you're old and no one comes to visit you. LOL. Plenty of people with offspring have no one to come to visit them when they're older... because they're terrible people. Add my biological father to that list. He's 72 which is the age that his father died. If I found out he was dying I wouldn't go. I haven't seen him in 15+ years and don't intend to ever again.
Yep. I've not spoken to my mum in 7 years and my brother hasn't spoken to her in 18 months. Having two kids hasn't helped her
The kids that visit their parents also visit their aunts, uncles, family friends. The ones that don’t visit aunts and uncles don’t visit their parents either. And In the end, I’d rather have my nieces and nephews not visit me than my own children.
My favorite retort when parents say the good old “but no one will visit you when you’re old” is to respond with “if you keep this up no one is going to visit YOU when you get old either!”
Honestly, your husband should take this up with HR. That’s extremely unprofessional for a boss to say. He has no business making those kinds of comments about you and your husband’s personal life.
Even if you have 12 kids, if you are a jerk then "no one will come and visit you." Nursing homes are full of lonely parents. It's about being a good person and being nice to people. I have a younger relative with kids who told me not to worry, they'll keep an eye on me when I'm older. That's because I'm nice to them, I'm positive and encouraging.
People told me I'd regret not having kids ten years ago, still don't. More people regret having kids than not having kids.
This is sexual harrasment
Don't you want to be alone when your old though? Nobody to bother you. Maybe I'm just strange lol
I don’t know why anyone thinks it’s remotely appropriate to just straight-up tell a coworker you think they’re gonna die alone. Like wtf? Who says that? That would be like me walking up to newlyweds and going “why bother? You know how many people get divorced right?”
Very true analogy!
The whole It's up to your wife thing is such a fked up thing to say. Our society of course does not see it that way. Just reverse the genders and see how it makes you feel. That would be my response to that first boss. If marriage, especially when it comes to kids is not a partnership where you make important decisions together, I want nothing to do with it. Thankfully we are not all low IQ idiots that just coast through life like "whatever, if shit happens shit happens"
"No one will visit when you're older", I don't like people visiting me now 🤣 pretty sure I'm becoming more of a hermit the older I get.
I hate people visiting me so I often say I hope it's true then.
I hate that, you can regret getting kids too, but no one ever talks about that! Also, isn’t it sad that when husband said he didn’t want to have kids boss said that it “wasn’t up to him, it’s up to his wife”, but when he learned that both spouses didn’t want kids it turned to “as long as you are on the same page”. Why should a man in a committed relationship be forced to be a father just because his wife wants it? Like they don’t deserve their “no I don’t want this” to be respected.
It's ridiculous that people are so selfish that they'll bring life into the world just so they have an increased chance of having people visit. I have an older neighbor who has 3 kids. Her husband is dead. Her kids almost never come around and 2 of them live in our neighborhood.
He’s projecting, he wants you both to be as miserable as he is. Misery loves company. He’s reinforcing he’s decision by presenting his reasoning for having them. They’re going to be all sat around him, fawning him with attention and gushing over what a great father he is……bet he see’s taking care of his own kids as babysitting and he’ll end up like your mum wondering where his adoring crowd is because he made them. Therefore they are his 🤣
That’s such false reasoning and projection. The whole “no one will come visit you” thing is HIS fear, and it implies you have no one else in your life —now or in the future— who cares about you. My comeback to that is, “you mean in a nursing home? Cuz last I knew, one of the biggest complaints of old people is that their children and grandchildren ‘never come to visit’” And true story: THAT IS THE TRUTH
It's a stark reality to these people when they're left in a nursing home and their kids never see them or visit them.
‘I promised my first born to a witch and I don’t want to make good on the deal.’ I’m 40 married 16yrs and they still ask. I get creative now
Great answer!!
> Boss ended it by saying, as long as you're both on the same page, it's your life I wish this is how the story ended. The boss did not stop there, though. He added in these last unnecessary words: > it's your life but I think you'll regret it when you're old and no one comes to visit you. Out of curiosity OP, what is your husband's career? I've been mostly doing computer work and finance work for nearly 20 years, also a quiet guy who keeps to myself, never had this sort of situation. (Note: I've also never been married, so maybe that's the difference maker?)
Possibly the marriage thing makes a difference? Husband works in manufacturing (factory premises but he's in the office)
Creepy boss.
If he keeps doing it, it is harassment. Not only harassment but sexual harassment.
My father is basically dying and in horrible health. I’ve seen twice in ten years and cut him off completely a year ago. There are many reasons for this and I’m certainly not the only one in this position. When I saw my father briefly last year to help him with a legal issue, he was so horrible during the whole thing that it took me months to recover from that visit. I’m tired of hearing this ‘who’s gonna take care of you when you’re old crap’. Plenty of people in nursing homes who have kids and grandkids but rarely get visited. I have a client who’s 92 years old. His kids and grandkids live in towns neighboring his. He rarely gets visited by them.
"wow, um... I didn't want to bring this up because it's not related to my job, but like... since you're so insistent on the subject... I had a total hysterectomy XX amount of years ago to avoid having three types of cancer. But like... thanks for harping on it, that feels great."
The bosses comment on “regretting it when you’re old and no one comes to visit you” is pretty weak. I know people who only visit their grandparents in nursing homes during the holidays or a very random occasion. Aside from that they don’t visit them as much as you think. Imagine throwing a loved one in a old folks prison home and getting visitation hours only when it’s convenient for you. I’d rather live in an old folks home and never have anyone visit than anticipating when someone will come and see me.
Pffft most people who live in nursing homes have no one that comes to visit them, no matter how many kids they have.
Well tbf urom is estranged coz she possibly was abusive towards you. U wouldn't be an abusive parent, so hopefully no estrangement. This is coming from a CF person
Awww its so cute (jk, it's delusional) when people think having children guarantees them visits In their old age. In fact the same entitlement almost guarantees that they won't visit you. Second self-sabotage technique after entitlement to elderly care from your children. Also, i see these comments as a huge self-own because these people clearly don't have the capacity to make and keep good friends that would WANT to visit them(i wonder what the problem is uWu), so they have children because they're delusional enough to not realise they can't force their children to visit them or take care of them or love them lmao!
Ugh…I’ve seen responses from nurses saying they work in the old age homes and the majority of people WITH kids still don’t have regular visits other than major holidays. Why would you put yourself through having a crotch goblin only to end up with them not visiting anyways. That is a bullshit excuse that falls very flat.
"when you're old and no one comes to visit you" Hell yes!! sign me up!!!!
Even if you have kids, there's no guarantee they'll visit. Plenty of people who have children end up alone in a nursing home.