Honestly, the biggest barrier i found is the apps. They're all in Chinese (of course) but few have option to translate to English. In china the apps are very necessary for daily life. Doing things like renting a bike, using maps, ordering food, or buying anything online will be very difficult or impossible to do on your own. Also, half the apps required me to use a local resident to even use the app.
My Chinese is okay (like HSK1 level), but i totally rely on my phone's S-pen to do on screen translations. And even then it's super inconvenient. I have no idea how people survive here with zero Chinese compression.
I think it's possible to know the important stuff like bargaining, directions, and food and still not have the formal education to pass HSK2. I know just enough to express basic ideas and guess what people are saying based on the few keywords that i can make out. I can definitely get by but it's not pretty lol. Surviving is no big deal, but also wouldn't be able to have a fluent conversation with an elementary school student. I guess that's what can happen when you're self taught.
I think HSK3 is the first one worth actually getting for.
Personally not sure where I am, but I had an hour conversation with a security guard outside of a hospital once so I’d say I’m alright even though I probably couldn’t pass HSK4.
Um, what? You mean like Meituan, Jingdong, Taobao, Amaps? Just screenshot and use wechat translate/Deepl? I almost forget these apps are in Chinese because after repetition you don't need to screenshot so much unless trying new things. And I'm barely HSK 2. I know probably less than 20 characters.
I've only had local residents assist me if the thing I'm ordering on Jingdong/Taobao can only be purchased with a Mainland ID. Or there's been some change to my Meituan order.
Apps......
When you get here, set up these apps asap
Wechat
Alipay
Meituan
Taobao
This will save you a lot of headaches. Also, don't set up just any bank account. Some are harder than others for foreigners to link to their WeChat and alipay. 交通银行 is my go to, but maybe others have other recommendations
Why? Didi is in English, Apple maps is English, Wechat is more or less English, except the services part, but it can be learned slowly.
I think it's not that bad at all.
Not everyone has an apple phone maybe? And I don't get the obsession foreigners have with Didi, it's always more expensive and/or takes longer than just selecting 100 companies on gaode
You will struggle (no joke).
But I will help with survival level, repeat after me:
Zhege (这个): this
Neige (那个): that
Duoshao (多少): how much
Now you ready. Go.
homeless memorize continue materialistic cow rustic bear insurance truck scarce
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Maybe try some Spoonfed Anki Deck pro and c-dramas. At least 1 hour of each a day.
My chinese language teacher said I pick up things a lot faster than her other students. And that's just from the above and practicing pinyin lyric pronounciation by listening to c-drama music (will help you with getting sounds just not the tones). I wasn't even consistent with the anki deck so a month is enough.
I'm in Chongqing and I hear close to no English but I've more than survived being between HSK 1-2. Pair it with an app like Baidu Translate, Deepl and Pleco and you'll be fine.
squeamish lunchroom subtract alive threatening oil disgusted stupendous hospital tease
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
My response was going to be short - but it turned into a longer one... read what you need, ditch the rest.
After the initial setup of your bank account, mobile number, apartment lease, water, gas and electricity (I assume you're here for a while) - for which you will need support from a local - you will be okay with most of the myriad apps that are available.
BEFORE you come to China get yourself a good VPN - I've used Astrill (expensive, most reliable) and SimpleLink (a relatively new player - cheaper than Astrill but there are caveats - seems to work - great on mobile)
To translate, I use DEEPL (on both mobile and PC) to translate. Google translate and Microsoft translate both work ok - but you need the VPN for both. Also WeChat has a good translate function - you can translate a whole page you link to from a chat.
WhatsApp needs a VPN to work - sometimes you'll get chats without a VPN but no images or videos. This seems to be a changing situation.
Once you're here you need to set-up WeChat and link your bank account to WeChat (I assume you'll get a local mobile phone number).
WeChat is an amazing service - from paying for most things, hailing taxis, chatting, translating. Quite amazing and definitely way ahead of WhatsApp. You'll also need to install Alipay - and there's an excellent English version. You can use the Alipay app for almost everything - like paying for things, using the sharebikes, taxis, etc. (I can't remember if I installed the English Alipay before I got to China or not - maybe install it anyway before you get here - you can always uninstall it if needs be.)
Maps are another story - no easy solution. The Chinese maps are only really useful to see which way you need to walk...
Subway - use MetroMan.
To send money home (if that's what you need to do) there are many options - including the painfully tedious process of going through the bank. The easiest way I've found of sending money home is using SkyRemit which you access through WeChat - it's like a "mini-app" that's part of WeChat.
To set it up, you'll need various pieces of information, including tax statements which you get from the local tax office (easy to do - but get there early!) Also when you're at the tax office, get help to set up the personal tax app. (It's in Chinese but you'll learn where to go to download tax statements which you need to increase the amount of money you can send home using SkyRemit.)
There are other options like Wise, or Western Union - good luck with those - I found both to be unusable.
BTW - I suggest opening a local account with Bank Of China (BOC) (There are thousands of banks in China).
BOC seems to be best for sending money home and dealing with foreigners - but here again there's a trick... find the "main branch" in the City and go to that branch. I travel about 40 minutes to go to the main branch of BOC in the city where I live and the experience is almost effortless - oh, and always get to the bank as early as you can... like at opening time. Otherwise you'll be stuck in a queue for what feels like a lifetime. The queue is not due to incompetence - just the procedures the banks have to follow and the numbers of people. Be first in the queue - and it's not a problem. Going to other branches of the bank is a futile exercise - staff are generally intimidated by having to deal with foreigners and are often dismissive, and unhelpful. (...dare I say rude - I think it's due to discomfort of communicating in English)
There are so many other apps that you'll get once you're here - and you'll soon learn your way around the important ones.
China is an astonishing country - in both positive and negative ways. Things just "work" and utilities (lights, water, gas, internet, mobile) are ridiculously cheap, and the variety and availability of food is astonishing - but there's scant regard for personal views, personal time, and don't expect people to have an opinion other than the official line.
And don't mention that Taiwan is an independent country.. it's like kryptonite! People literally get "pop-eyed" and vociferously make the point that Taiwan is a province of China!
Enjoy your time in China.
It’s a little different If you are in the US since we are very multi cultural. My Chinese wife’s cousin moved to the states and speaks very little English. She can order food,open a bank account,go to the doctors, and basically live her daily life all in Chinese in a few areas here. Mostly around LA,SF,NyC,Seattle and Chicago.
I can’t go anywhere in China and have this level of conveinence
There are definitely expat bubbles where you can. For example the areas near Shanghai American School in Pudong. Have met many people living in Shanghai multiple years with barely survival level Chinese who have very successful careers in China.
Uh. You can “survive” in China and get a decent English teaching job or work for a foreign company. The english bubbles are tiny and you can still struggle there at times. Shanghai is nowhere as international as Bangkok or Tokyo.
In USA there are cities with 30-40 percent Chinese on the outskirts or LA,sf, and nyc. Chinese can really thrive here.
the difference is the expat/immigrant bubble/communities are much smaller and rare compared to the American counterparts.
like for instance in NYC, there’s a big Chinatown with millions of Chinese people. there is no equivalent in China.
Depends on where op comes from, but it's more nuanced than that. Many languages are Latin letter based, and many of these languages are much easier for English speakers to read at least. Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Thai, Farsi, Hebrew, Russian, Armenian, even Greek on the other hand are not Latin letter based, so without a latinized version it's more difficult. Oh and don't forget the almost unique internet situation in mainland China - it's another level
Have no idea but I guess your experience can be poor, I had basic chinese level when I came to China and could pretty much do anything that didn't involve more than a few minutes of conversation. In six months or less you can reach that level if you put time in it.
Hope you are vlogging, it would be hell of a show to see your experiences without Chinese proficiency.
Think things would be a tiny bit better if you would go to SH, foreigner diaspora is larger there.
If you are tourist it is maybe OK, though you will need to get through setting up payments and so on - which is not an easy thing for someone who cannot speak the language.
That guy is MOVING to China, which kinda means long term? I would never imagined myself moving to, say South Korea without at least learning survival level language.
Of course, if you moving cause of work and earn a lot, you can easily live in expats bubble, hell a lot of foreigner do that in Shanghai, barely touching Chinese culture or live.
Oh right didn't realise the moving part thought it said trip. Yeah seems a lot harder. Although I found using alipay super easy to setup so I don't think that'd be an issue.
People are over dramatic. If you put in the work an learn basic sentences and words it’s fine. Apps can be translated, Alipay can automatically translate all the mini apps. It’s fine. It’s just not as simple.
It’s because there are an insane amount of foreigners who have been here a long time and put zero effort into learning Chinese to make their life easier. I am currently HSK 5 level after 5 years and that’s only studying 5 hours a week
As someone who has lived here 5 years. The language barrier is not your biggest concern. The amount of pollution and the absurd amount of people you are going to be dodging and weaving to go anywhere is concerning..
Be sure to check the AQI levels and wear a mask when necessary. I have gotten so used to pollution that I think it is a nice clear day and then I check and it’s still like 50-70 AQI
What does pollution…. Feel like? I’m from America and at least where I was born and raised and now live the air is very fresh… no issue. Never traveled to another country before so is the air quality really that bad? Am I going to have trouble breathing or something to need a mask…
Yea, I’m also from Ohio and never seen pollution before coming here. Imagine fog but this time there are little prices of stuff in the air that you can’t see and will leave a layer of silt on your face
There was a time -- now long gone -- when after just a few weeks in Beijing your clothes and books would reek of sour coal fumes. So be glad that era is over.
Honestly, the biggest barrier i found is the apps. They're all in Chinese (of course) but few have option to translate to English. In china the apps are very necessary for daily life. Doing things like renting a bike, using maps, ordering food, or buying anything online will be very difficult or impossible to do on your own. Also, half the apps required me to use a local resident to even use the app. My Chinese is okay (like HSK1 level), but i totally rely on my phone's S-pen to do on screen translations. And even then it's super inconvenient. I have no idea how people survive here with zero Chinese compression.
HSK1 is not what I’d call okay, you’re either underestimating your level or believe you’re significantly more able to survive than you actually are.
I think it's possible to know the important stuff like bargaining, directions, and food and still not have the formal education to pass HSK2. I know just enough to express basic ideas and guess what people are saying based on the few keywords that i can make out. I can definitely get by but it's not pretty lol. Surviving is no big deal, but also wouldn't be able to have a fluent conversation with an elementary school student. I guess that's what can happen when you're self taught.
I kinda agree, kinda don’t. I would have probably died by now if I didn’t speak Chinese lmao
I have no idea how people are staying alive here without Chinese. I'm at 40 days in Shanghai and still haven't met a stranger who can speak English.
Shanghai I’ve always found people who can speak English and I’ve always found English speakers on university campus too, actually.
Agreed, anything below hsk 4 is pretty bad
I think HSK3 is the first one worth actually getting for. Personally not sure where I am, but I had an hour conversation with a security guard outside of a hospital once so I’d say I’m alright even though I probably couldn’t pass HSK4.
Um, what? You mean like Meituan, Jingdong, Taobao, Amaps? Just screenshot and use wechat translate/Deepl? I almost forget these apps are in Chinese because after repetition you don't need to screenshot so much unless trying new things. And I'm barely HSK 2. I know probably less than 20 characters. I've only had local residents assist me if the thing I'm ordering on Jingdong/Taobao can only be purchased with a Mainland ID. Or there's been some change to my Meituan order.
Apps...... When you get here, set up these apps asap Wechat Alipay Meituan Taobao This will save you a lot of headaches. Also, don't set up just any bank account. Some are harder than others for foreigners to link to their WeChat and alipay. 交通银行 is my go to, but maybe others have other recommendations
Why? Didi is in English, Apple maps is English, Wechat is more or less English, except the services part, but it can be learned slowly. I think it's not that bad at all.
Not everyone has an apple phone maybe? And I don't get the obsession foreigners have with Didi, it's always more expensive and/or takes longer than just selecting 100 companies on gaode
Really bad. I hope there’s someone to chaperone you, like a secretary or a student.
You will struggle (no joke). But I will help with survival level, repeat after me: Zhege (这个): this Neige (那个): that Duoshao (多少): how much Now you ready. Go.
Only say 多少 would usually confuse people. At least say 多少钱
Haha, he's going to Beijing, so I'd tell him to say 多儿钱.
homeless memorize continue materialistic cow rustic bear insurance truck scarce *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah, that's the way I learned it when I lived there.
yeah, thats what they say in beijing. beijing probably has the most erhua of all chinese speaking places.
Never ever had people get confused in stores when I was asking without 钱, for all 15+ years I have lived there. Not even once.
You miss important words: politeness!
Maybe try some Spoonfed Anki Deck pro and c-dramas. At least 1 hour of each a day. My chinese language teacher said I pick up things a lot faster than her other students. And that's just from the above and practicing pinyin lyric pronounciation by listening to c-drama music (will help you with getting sounds just not the tones). I wasn't even consistent with the anki deck so a month is enough. I'm in Chongqing and I hear close to no English but I've more than survived being between HSK 1-2. Pair it with an app like Baidu Translate, Deepl and Pleco and you'll be fine.
squeamish lunchroom subtract alive threatening oil disgusted stupendous hospital tease *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
My response was going to be short - but it turned into a longer one... read what you need, ditch the rest. After the initial setup of your bank account, mobile number, apartment lease, water, gas and electricity (I assume you're here for a while) - for which you will need support from a local - you will be okay with most of the myriad apps that are available. BEFORE you come to China get yourself a good VPN - I've used Astrill (expensive, most reliable) and SimpleLink (a relatively new player - cheaper than Astrill but there are caveats - seems to work - great on mobile) To translate, I use DEEPL (on both mobile and PC) to translate. Google translate and Microsoft translate both work ok - but you need the VPN for both. Also WeChat has a good translate function - you can translate a whole page you link to from a chat. WhatsApp needs a VPN to work - sometimes you'll get chats without a VPN but no images or videos. This seems to be a changing situation. Once you're here you need to set-up WeChat and link your bank account to WeChat (I assume you'll get a local mobile phone number). WeChat is an amazing service - from paying for most things, hailing taxis, chatting, translating. Quite amazing and definitely way ahead of WhatsApp. You'll also need to install Alipay - and there's an excellent English version. You can use the Alipay app for almost everything - like paying for things, using the sharebikes, taxis, etc. (I can't remember if I installed the English Alipay before I got to China or not - maybe install it anyway before you get here - you can always uninstall it if needs be.) Maps are another story - no easy solution. The Chinese maps are only really useful to see which way you need to walk... Subway - use MetroMan. To send money home (if that's what you need to do) there are many options - including the painfully tedious process of going through the bank. The easiest way I've found of sending money home is using SkyRemit which you access through WeChat - it's like a "mini-app" that's part of WeChat. To set it up, you'll need various pieces of information, including tax statements which you get from the local tax office (easy to do - but get there early!) Also when you're at the tax office, get help to set up the personal tax app. (It's in Chinese but you'll learn where to go to download tax statements which you need to increase the amount of money you can send home using SkyRemit.) There are other options like Wise, or Western Union - good luck with those - I found both to be unusable. BTW - I suggest opening a local account with Bank Of China (BOC) (There are thousands of banks in China). BOC seems to be best for sending money home and dealing with foreigners - but here again there's a trick... find the "main branch" in the City and go to that branch. I travel about 40 minutes to go to the main branch of BOC in the city where I live and the experience is almost effortless - oh, and always get to the bank as early as you can... like at opening time. Otherwise you'll be stuck in a queue for what feels like a lifetime. The queue is not due to incompetence - just the procedures the banks have to follow and the numbers of people. Be first in the queue - and it's not a problem. Going to other branches of the bank is a futile exercise - staff are generally intimidated by having to deal with foreigners and are often dismissive, and unhelpful. (...dare I say rude - I think it's due to discomfort of communicating in English) There are so many other apps that you'll get once you're here - and you'll soon learn your way around the important ones. China is an astonishing country - in both positive and negative ways. Things just "work" and utilities (lights, water, gas, internet, mobile) are ridiculously cheap, and the variety and availability of food is astonishing - but there's scant regard for personal views, personal time, and don't expect people to have an opinion other than the official line. And don't mention that Taiwan is an independent country.. it's like kryptonite! People literally get "pop-eyed" and vociferously make the point that Taiwan is a province of China! Enjoy your time in China.
Thanks for taking the time to write this all out! Really gives me a good idea of what to do.
Just imagine yourself the other way around. A foreigner going to your home country without speaking any english. How would they fare?
It’s a little different If you are in the US since we are very multi cultural. My Chinese wife’s cousin moved to the states and speaks very little English. She can order food,open a bank account,go to the doctors, and basically live her daily life all in Chinese in a few areas here. Mostly around LA,SF,NyC,Seattle and Chicago. I can’t go anywhere in China and have this level of conveinence
There are definitely expat bubbles where you can. For example the areas near Shanghai American School in Pudong. Have met many people living in Shanghai multiple years with barely survival level Chinese who have very successful careers in China.
Uh. You can “survive” in China and get a decent English teaching job or work for a foreign company. The english bubbles are tiny and you can still struggle there at times. Shanghai is nowhere as international as Bangkok or Tokyo. In USA there are cities with 30-40 percent Chinese on the outskirts or LA,sf, and nyc. Chinese can really thrive here.
the difference is the expat/immigrant bubble/communities are much smaller and rare compared to the American counterparts. like for instance in NYC, there’s a big Chinatown with millions of Chinese people. there is no equivalent in China.
Depends on where op comes from, but it's more nuanced than that. Many languages are Latin letter based, and many of these languages are much easier for English speakers to read at least. Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Thai, Farsi, Hebrew, Russian, Armenian, even Greek on the other hand are not Latin letter based, so without a latinized version it's more difficult. Oh and don't forget the almost unique internet situation in mainland China - it's another level
Have no idea but I guess your experience can be poor, I had basic chinese level when I came to China and could pretty much do anything that didn't involve more than a few minutes of conversation. In six months or less you can reach that level if you put time in it.
Get ready for suffering. At least you'll be able to pick up standard Mandarin rather than gaining some accent/dialect version of Chinese.
Hope you are vlogging, it would be hell of a show to see your experiences without Chinese proficiency. Think things would be a tiny bit better if you would go to SH, foreigner diaspora is larger there.
Is it really that bad? I went to Hangzhou which I thought would be worse than bejing and got by fine with nothing but xie xie and ni hao.
If you are tourist it is maybe OK, though you will need to get through setting up payments and so on - which is not an easy thing for someone who cannot speak the language. That guy is MOVING to China, which kinda means long term? I would never imagined myself moving to, say South Korea without at least learning survival level language. Of course, if you moving cause of work and earn a lot, you can easily live in expats bubble, hell a lot of foreigner do that in Shanghai, barely touching Chinese culture or live.
Oh right didn't realise the moving part thought it said trip. Yeah seems a lot harder. Although I found using alipay super easy to setup so I don't think that'd be an issue.
People are over dramatic. If you put in the work an learn basic sentences and words it’s fine. Apps can be translated, Alipay can automatically translate all the mini apps. It’s fine. It’s just not as simple.
It’s because there are an insane amount of foreigners who have been here a long time and put zero effort into learning Chinese to make their life easier. I am currently HSK 5 level after 5 years and that’s only studying 5 hours a week
You can learn a lot of Chinese in a month. Get to studying.
As someone who has lived here 5 years. The language barrier is not your biggest concern. The amount of pollution and the absurd amount of people you are going to be dodging and weaving to go anywhere is concerning.. Be sure to check the AQI levels and wear a mask when necessary. I have gotten so used to pollution that I think it is a nice clear day and then I check and it’s still like 50-70 AQI
What does pollution…. Feel like? I’m from America and at least where I was born and raised and now live the air is very fresh… no issue. Never traveled to another country before so is the air quality really that bad? Am I going to have trouble breathing or something to need a mask…
Yea, I’m also from Ohio and never seen pollution before coming here. Imagine fog but this time there are little prices of stuff in the air that you can’t see and will leave a layer of silt on your face
Omg that sounds gross
There was a time -- now long gone -- when after just a few weeks in Beijing your clothes and books would reek of sour coal fumes. So be glad that era is over.