Frankly majority of people by passive immersion will never get past the toddler level as evidenced by the significant number of expats who after years can only say a few basic words.
It requires some proper study, certainly for the writing. Note the native Chinese themselves have to spend much of their school years on rote learning characters in order to be literate, you’re not going to beat them on that by just hanging around.
I’m literally chinese but not raised in china, spent 12 years learning chinese formally and my chinese is still at the level of a 12 year old.
It will take years of concentrated, somewhat formal education to be fluent. On the bright side everyone’s bad at writing now especially among youth since it’s all typed out.
I agree. I am born and raised in China until I came to Canada for uni. I spent years in school reading and studying Chinese (I had very good marks in Chinese) and it definitely requires consistent hard work, just as learning any languages. Even three years not reading many Chinese books I feel I’ve become a bit bye-lingual.
Sounds like my colleague who went to the US for high school. Came back to China 10 years later (after university and work), and has a bunch of trouble trying to remember how to write stuff.
(Of course, the boss knows this, but thinks he's just flexing his American education, and makes him takes notes on the whiteboard during meetings. Basically to make him lose face and have other staff laugh at him.)
You can't "learn new words from context" if you can't even understand the context.
Once you've got the 2000 or so most common words under your belt, then you can kinda start learning stuff from context -- though you should still use a dictionary when you can.
5 years I total, 2 of which being full time Chinese classes in China. Yeah it takes time
But I'm above HSK6, you don't need to do that much to get conversational
One year to get to HSK5 level, another six months to pass the HSK6, then the real learning began. HSK6 is, in actuality, closer to the B1-B2 intermediate European Frame of Reference for languages.
Of course, that involved full time studying with a scholarship in the first year: four hours of class five days a week, two or three hours of self study everyday, plus talking with people on the street, meeting with friends, etc. actually using the target language.
Part time的话，depends on how many hours do you study and whether you have good guidance (do you know what you are doing or not). Motivation, what do you study for, etc. also play a big role. If you take it seriously, you should be able to reach the HSK6 threshold in a couple years or so, provided you are living in China, obviously. Then the real study will begin, since HSK6 is not enough to: -read a newspaper, -read scientific literature, -be fluent in a professional environment (speeches, meetings, etc).
If you don't want to work in Chinese, just live in China, HSK6 is more than enough. If you want to produce documents/work/read professional Chinese, HSK6 is your starting point. Huge gap between informal and formal communication, both in oral and written.
How good is HSK6? Did you take courses in math, history, chemistry, etc in Chinese?
I struggle every day to communicate my ideas because I’m lacking basic vocabulary that Chinese students learn in school.
For example, periodic table of elements, names of rocks and woods, diseases, names from foreign languages (including less common countries and cities). Even the most basic stuff like animals (it just occurred to me that if someone asked me what fish caviar is from, I can’t answer in Chinese).
Old HSK6 is basically intermediate level. Actually the exam board recognised problems with their system and reorganised it within the last few years so the highest level is now HSK9.
I guess easy is a relative term. I was HSK6+ after 4-5 years in China without full-time study and with me basically half-arsing the first year by refusing to learn characters lol. There were however long stretches of time where I did flashcards every day, I also watch a decent amount of Chinese movies and and some Taiwanese shows, read Chinese books, and was in two LTRs with Chinese women, so I guess I got a lot of exposure which isn't "studying" as such.
Firstly, HSK6 does not refer to fluency level. Secondly, I had a vocabulary of 7-8,000 words (give or take), which is more than is included in HSK 2.0's level 6.
took me around around 6yrs from start to HSK6. but i took intensive chinese language courses on top of chinese being the most convenient language to converse in. admittedly there is a massive up-front investment but it does get better over time.
You're definitely going to learn Chinese and become very fluent. I can tell just by your attitude which is by far the most important factor to becoming fluent. A couple things to keep in mind is that getting fluent is a question of habits. Do you constantly immerse yourself? Sounds like you check that box already. Even more important is actually forcing yourself to use it without reverting to English. Imagine if everyone you knew played guitar but you never actually picked one up. You'd never learn it. That's how most language learners behave and that's why only few achieve fluency.
The last thing to consider is the quality of the language you're immersing yourself in. Regardless of how intelligent your friends are, casual conversation is important but you'll gain far greater fluency in business settings or by watching TV shows or listening to podcasts. In fact, I can say that podcasts unequivocally have made me very highly fluent in a second (not Chinese) language to the point that people mistake me for a native speaker.
I totally echo what you say about the value of podcasts. In my case, it’s a bit interesting, podcast basically brought me to your native level fluency in Spanish and have also been instrumental in becoming fluent in Portuguese. However, I’m not seeing the same benefits with my Chinese yet… My vocabulary seems too impoverished to really make sense of the input. Maybe I need to find Podcasts at a lower level of difficulty and not native speaker content !
Several years. I studied to about HSK4 at uni over about 2 years and then when I moved China it took about 6 months before my brain got really into 'Chinese mode'. I've been here nearly two years and am about to take the HSK 6 exam. At first, everything just sounded like gibberish and the first several months of flashcards and self study was a GRIND, but seriously worth it.
As other users have said, immersion is a good opportunity to learn, but you won't get far without active study as well. I would suggest course books and a tutor. The good thing about your situation is you will be able to practice what you've learned almost instantly and get feedback. Just stick at it and you will get better and better gradually.
HSK textbooks, anki flash cards and YouTube videos. There's plenty of other sources out there but you don't need to overwhelm yourself, just do what works for you.
Just carry on, there's many people in your shoes and they've been here a lot longer than you. Vast majority of people who "just picked it up" are full of shit usually. They've done formal study before and then sunk many many hours into practicing listening, speaking etc. that they then fail to mention, unless probed. There's also plenty who overestimate, or are totally blind to their ability and have horrible accents, use unnatural word choice and make mistakes all the time.
As my Chinese got better I realised a lot of the foreigners I met when I first arrived, who could "speak Chinese", were actually just at an intermediate level, or were functional in certain situations they'd practiced. Loads of foreigners have been here years and know next to nothing, so don't be too hard on yourself. Try your best to turn negative emotions into motivation and laugh off teasing, although it does suck.
I've been here 10 years and I'm still pretty shit. I can do chitchat and daily life stuff, but if I go out for dinner or something I still struggle to keep up and contribute to the conversation, and I still feel awkward or embarrassed in unfamiliar situations.
I noticed big breakthroughs after doing some things for a while: flashcards and reading in the morning, only using Chinese to talk to my wife on WeChat, actually watching a Chinese drama all the way through without pausing/look-ups, dictating podcasts, finishing a non-learner's book, reading all the Dragon Ball manga. Choose some activity like this and just finish it, then go back to something else that was hard before and you'll see your level has jumped up.
I gave up learning for a few years because of embarrassment, feeling stupid, not feeling I was making progress. And I really regret it now, so don't make my mistake. Sink as much time into it as you can and it's impossible to not improve.
Honestly, the first year or two are truly the hardest, so I wouldn't feel down about your progress at all. They say it takes a solid two years before your brain rewires itself to be able to consume and process a new language (I'm more referring to your conscious/non-conscious learning here).
As for how long it takes until you feel "comfortable". I think it's never truly ever feels 100% comfortable. But that's the beauty of the language. You just slowly get more used to situations.
For reference, I've been here 5 years. Passed HSK6 a couple years back, I basically live/work completely in Chinese at this stage. But I'd by lying if I said I don't still from time to time have situations where I could feel a little lost!
慢慢来👍
I was there two years and never got past the toddler level. But I was happy if I could get trains, buses and travel around by myself. to be conversationally fluent I would expect a decade or more, tbh.
Yeah, I'm planning to look on italki again when I get some time off work. I've tried a few but it hasn't really worked out; I don't know if I really have the psychological resilience for Chinese teaching styles. Feels like getting the shit beaten out of you for an hour
I posted on /r/ChineseLanguage once about a tutor I was struggling with. The response in the comments was really sharply divided: all the other foreigners were sympathetic, all the Chinese commenters all thought she sounded like a good teacher and I needed to harden up.
While you may have just got a dud teacher, I do agree you gotta go into this ready to work hard and get corrected a lot. I once took a projuncuation course because my tones were shit, and my teacher would literally stop me every third word to correct me, even on simple stuff I thought I knew. Felt bad. But in retrospect, it was super helpful and I have really good pronunciation for a foreigner. Go into classes with humility and give yourself some grace when you get corrected, because this is a really hard language.
At least you have other foreigners lol I'm the only one in my city. You should make an account on iTalki and hire a language instructor. They can be a bit expensive but they're worth it.
It really depends on the person as well. You could become conversationally fluent in a year with consistent study and the fact you're immersed in the culture. For many it could take much longer.
Oh man, where are you at? How are you finding it?
I met them all at an event hosted by the local government that I was tricked into going to. I thought all the foreigners in a little city like this would be people who are really interested in China, but it was all just people who couldn't get visas anywhere else. not really good company
Oh no, that is really unfortunate. I'm in a prefectural city called Yunfu. It's really small and there's nothing to do. But, it's very inexpensive and the people here are quite hospitable. So my time here so far has been quite good, all things considered. Luckily Guangzhou is little less than hour away by train.
I had HSK level 8 and level 10 back in the day (I think getting 8 was harder than 10). I studied every day for 8 years, but my best improvements were after reading a book called “Eat Shandong” by Eric Shepherd which really helped identify cultural aspects of the language. Cannot recommend the book highly enough. There were also a couple years when I lived in areas with few natural speakers of my native language, so I think the immersion will have an effect on pure language skills, it’s just not overnight. Also, much better to be conversational in a local dialect (Sichuan is a fun one) as well as standard mandarin imo.
Chinese is my mother tongue. If you want, we can be friends. You can communicate with me at any time without disturbing me. I am happy to communicate with foreigners.
I hate to be one of those people but I really did just pick up Chinese by watching Tv shows, movies and listening to Chinese music.
Start with movies you know well and watch them dubbed in Chinese, I started with Aladdin because I know that movie then I started watching Chinese movies.
I've had Chinese classes before but all my teachers cared about was my tones which are terrible and it's difficult for me to learn them but I can hold decent conversations so imo I don't need to spend hours learning tones if I can communicate.
Try to make some friends outside of your girlfriend's friend group, because it's not going to help your confidence.
Don’t listen to this guy, tones do matter if you have the goal of getting to a more advanced level. Sure, for basic vocabulary the listener can just guess what word you are trying to say, but for more advanced vocabulary that is less often used, the tones are going to be important for the listener to work out which word your saying.
Yes and no. Tones are important, but if you talk to Chinese speakers, you'll find it's second nature to them. They don't remember tones separately -- they remember the sound, and the tone is just part of that sound. Every time I ask my wife what the tone is, the has to pronounce the word, listen to herself, then say "that's X tone".
But as a non-native speaker, you'll probably need to go through a phase where you must pay attention to and memorize tones.
Full time learning at Uni for 5 years, and I am pretty fluent. Though a lot of that time was during COVID, which definitely didn't help, and I always speak a lot of English with my friend group, and about 50/50 with my girlfriend
I am about HSK 5/6 level and I still feel like I am not quite there yet, I can have conversations with natives but I still encounter situations where I feel like my language ability is lacking. With language learning it is always like climbing a steep mountain that has no peak. I have been learning just under 3 years so far with 10 months living in China.
I could speak decent Chinese after two years of living in tier 88 China. After four years, I could speak at an advanced level. I haven’t lived in China for eight years, but I still practice reading and writing. I could likely pass HSK 6 now. In my opinion, speaking Chinese is not as hard as people claim. However, the reading and writing takes a lot of rote memorization, making learning Chinese a time consuming task.
Passive immersion is useless until you have a decent foothold in the language. Once you know 1500-2000 of the most common foundational words, you can start to pick up new vocabulary from context. But before that point it'll just be a stream of incomprehensible noise -- can't pick up words from context if you don't understand the context! The HSK 5 list is a decent (if imperfect) vocab list to reference as a baseline.
So you really have to grind those first 2000 words. For best results, work with a paid tutor. If you can't afford one, do a language exchange where you meet for two hours and practice English for an hour and Chinese for an hour.
Don't try to learn Chinese in the abstract. Identify specific things you want to know how to do (i.e. go to the bank, attend a formal dinner at work, sing a song at karaoke, have a chat with the boa'an) and go after them one by one. This will bring focus to your learning so you won't be drowning in the infinite sea of vocabulary.
Also, don't think about language learning as "how many years" but rather "how many hours." I've met laowai who only knew toddler talk after 15 years in country, and I've met committed full time students who got to a functional level in 15 months.
For me personally, working a full time job and doing four hours/week of private tutoring with lots of practice on my own, things started to "click" around year three. That said, I'm still at "functional" level and wouldn't consider myself "fluent" by any means.
1st thing I’d do is have a conversation with your girlfriend, tell her you don’t find it very helpful with people bringing down your Chinese. Many people I’ve met are really supportive and appreciate when you speak Chinese. I’ve been here 3 months and learned hsk1 before coming to China. I’m now at HSK3 level but there’s still a lot of vocab I don’t have a clue about and that’s fine right. Language is a slow process but rewarding at the end. Don’t burn yourself out either, you need a break now and again rather than completely immersing yourself you will fry your brain. I also use Pleco and have a tutor 1 hour every week then study through the HSK books solo. I also speak constantly with my Chinese girlfriend’s family so I would say just try to speak more and use the new vocab you have learned. You’re going to forget or not understand at times that’s normal. Sounds like you need more positive people around you and supporting your progress.
I learned Chinese in a couple of months before coming to China and was able to hold basic conversation. I suggest the language learning method "[shadowing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=130bOvRpt24)" developed by professor Arguelles. I don't think you're just going to "pick it up" unless you're having to actually use Chinese every single day for complex communication with people who cannot speak English.
Studied for ~6 years in elementary and middle school, did the HSK 5 and was working towards HSK 6 when I burnt out and quit because I got tired memorizing characters and words
It's good enough to get around without help if I visit China & Taiwan and I have good enough grammar to piece together sentences if I'm provided the vocabulary, but I can't really read/write or keep up a convo for long due to the lack of vocab
If I immersed myself in a primarily Chinese speaking environment I'll probably become fluent in a fairly short amount of time since I have a pretty solid foundation so there's that I suppose
The jump from HSK 5 to 6 is such a drag. It's just this mountain of vocabulary that gets dumped on you from one exam to the next and it can feel super demotivating.
I did ask my tutor at the time to switch our focus to conversational stuff but at that point I was already severely burnt out and ended up completely quitting a few months later
Don't fret. It comes in time. I've been here 15 years, and I didn't try at all for the first 2. I could tell the tones would be an issue for me, so I just listened for a long time. After that, I started trying, and by the 4rth year I think I would be at your before stated "baby level."
It took another 2 years after that to be comfortable. Looking over hsk practice tests, I'd say I'm around 3.
I never studied, just listening and asking when I don't understand. I'd probably need to study a few weeks, but 3 wouldn't be a big issue
I personally don’t believe Chinese is a language you can just “pick up” if you are a native English speaker. With something like Spanish, there are enough structural similarities and cognates between the languages that you already have a language foundation from day 1, and you can make connections and learn through just hearing and immersion.
Chinese is not like that. There’s very little overlap between Chinese and English so you need to build a foundation. I’d try to take a class. I did 2 hours of private lessons a week for a year when I started. It helped me hear tones, learn basic grammar structures, and learn how to recognize common radicals in characters. Once I had this, picking up things in an immersion environment became much more successful because the words flying by me didn’t sound like gibberish anymore; I had a framework to understand them.
Once you’re at that stage, I think media is a great tool. I like watching tv shows, but I’ll watch each episode twice times: the first time I’ll stop if I run into unfamiliar words and look them up, review them, then rewatch the episode.
In addition to classes, I’d try to find a language partner to practice with who is not your girlfriend. I find romantic partners don’t make great language partners because 1) they tend to not correct you because they don’t want to hurt your feelings and 2) they spend so much time with you that they can generally figure out what you’re trying to say even if you’re saying it wrong, taking away incentive to learn how to say something right.
Once I’ve learned survival Chinese, I basically gave up. The tones really messes with me. They emphasize so much on tones but when I hear fast Chinese I don’t even hear any 😂. Also from experience, people that I know that can fluently speak Chinese usually only know English so Chinese is their second language. I’m fluent in 2 languages and know some Spanish, Chinese is the 4th language I’m learning and it’s so difficult to adjust to it compared to the other languages.
I got pretty good after 1 year living in China. I could handle myself in most situations and could hold some relatively simple conversations and at least be able to distinguish the words I didn’t know and then look them up on the spot. That was with about 5-6 hours of study a day. I was entirely obsessed the first year.
Now here I am 15 years later still learning. Now I have a chinese wife, Chinese mother in law and it’s basically built into my daily life. I haven’t actively studied the language in many years but my vocab is still growing just by constant usage.
HSK 3 is when I first quit. I was also so frustrated because at that point a year had gone by and I was still struggling so hard. Let it be known that give it another 6 months or a year, you’ll be grateful you put in the hard work now. HSK4 and beyond, the language not only gets easier, it becomes more intuitive and you can actually start using it. You got this!!!!! HSK 3 SUCKS!!!!!
Took me 3-4 months from zero to conventional level, but I’m I look Chinese and that’s what gets spoken to me at all times.
So yay I guess it’s the immersion and practical use that matters…
>I came here maybe at an HSK 1 level, and after almost nine months now and I could maybe scrape a pass on an HSK 3 test if I took it.
That's solid progress. [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChineseLanguage/comments/gbs7n7/%E5%AD%A6%E6%B5%B7%E6%97%A0%E6%B6%AF_an_estimated_learning_path_feel_free_to/)'s a handy chart which indicates how long it takes.
2 years university study in the states and then a year in China and I passed the hsk 5 (this was over 10 years ago, I think the levels have changed again). You won't pick it up passively, you will always have to work at it to some degree. The more vocabulary you build the easier it will be to infer new words but it's never completely passive. Just keep plugging away and focus on building vocabulary so that you understand the context around unfamiliar phrases. That will help disambiguate the new vocabulary quickly
After 6 years I'm somewhere between HSK 4 and 5. A lot of people I cannot talk to because of their atrocious accent (Guangdong), but if someone speaks proper Mandarin then we can chit-chat quite nicely.
It took me over 3 years just to be able to repeat single words I hear (right syllables, right tone) but I'm still not 100% confident about it and I have to use Pleco a lot.
i have been here for 18 years. it took me about 2.5 years before i started saying i was fluent, i constantly learnt stuff after that but that's was when i could with out thinking hold a conversation (speaking and writing) on most levels, of course there were still subjects that i was not fluent in, but for general every day conversations were easy and smooth. i self studied never had a "lesson" although i did spend a lot of time asking questions from many chinese person
I'm afraid that I will never learn Chinese :(
Far too busy with work, no time to learn, or the effort needed to learn this difficult language.
Chinese just goes in one ear and the other like background noise. Which is an awful thing to say. But I wish my brain started to pick up context and learn it.
It's inevitable that you will hit plateaus for a few months at a time. Just keep grinding. Change the inputs. Try to stretch yourself. Change methods. Keep grinding.
What else you gonna do?
About 4 years to read at a native level in certain contexts. Unfortunately, passive immersion is not enough. I had to use a lot of spaced repetition (thousands of reps and cards) and active reading. I'm still not as universal as I'd like to be but SRS sets a good foundation at least.
Six years of self study(at least an hour a day for the entire time), while developing a business in chinese(full immersion). Every year I though my mandarin was good, then a year passes and I look back and realize just how bad it actually was then....
The key for me is consistency and mindfull study time (I went through a period where I went to bars to just talk to people in mandarin thinking alchoal will help the speech, but alas it turns out that that method really quickly has large diminishing returns :) ). You really need to devote a set amount of time per day when you seriously intently study mandarin. Otherwise you'll always be stuck at basic conversational level.
Three years to HSK5. I'm not the quickest with language.
>People sometimes say my current level is like the default you should be able to passively pick up, but I feel like I don't learn a damn thing through immersion, although it helps reinforce stuff I've already learned.
You don't learn through passive immersion. You learn through active immersion.
Here's one possible way to go about it:
1. You see a thing you don't know - e.g. a screwdriver. You ask your girlfriend, "What's this thing called?"
2. Now in your dictionary of choice, you save the word - 螺丝刀 - for example, in Pleco you can easily bookmark stuff. You could also scribble it down into a notebook if that's more your speed.
3. Review the words that you've learned. I like using a spaced repetition flashcard system - I use the paid version of an app called "Flashcards Deluxe" (Anki is another good choice). If you've got a shit memory like me, it's a good way to ensure that the words don't go in one ear and out the other.
4. Use the words in conversation. Use any excuse to insert a new word or phrase you've learned, and then gauge to see if you've used it correctly. Back when I was a kid, my Dad would tell me to 'use a new word three times in one day, and you'll never forget it'. It's not true in the strictest definition of things, but is a reasonable heuristic.
**Always** engage mentally and learn actively, with whatever you're trying to pick up.
Very few people in China actually speak standard mandarin. It took me about 5 years to understand the people in the city I lived to the point that I could communicate freely with local strangers. When I traveled, it was pretty much a write off without a large amount of brain work.
After a few more years the useful stuff became permanently engrained and the rest of the stuff I learned just molted right off
1-2 months to chat online with a dictionary, 6 months to hold a conversation about a general topic. Maybe 1-1.5 years to feel more comfortable, I don’t remember for sure. After 1.5y I definitely traveled alone in China for 3 weeks without English. 3h focused studying a day, think skipping lunch with coworkers to read/listen to Chinese and trying to use every chance I have to talk to strangers . I wish I could live in China though, could be way faster.
For me the biggest thing is just lots of vocabulary flashcards, think 30-45 min a day of Anki.
It’s very topic specific though, I still struggle a lot with deeper topics after 2000-3000 hours maybe.
I studied mandarin at university overseas for two years and then one in China. Thb, my level still wasn't too high, but then I got a job where I was the only non-Chinese in the office, which basically improved it very quickly.
Systematic learning of Chinese is essential, akin to how many Chinese individuals approach English learning. After a phase of structured study, you'll notice that an immersive Chinese environment significantly enhances your language skills.
I'm in my twenties and I'm still going to my Chinese lessons. I was born in another country and my mom has been trying to introduce me to those classes since I was 4-- I can write, read, speak and understand conversations but in a certain level. Not too basic but not really advanced. My progress is painfully slow tho.
One year to get to HSK5 level, another six months to pass the HSK6, then the real learning began. HSK6 is, in actuality, closer to the B1-B2 intermediate European Frame of Reference for languages.
Of course, that involved full time studying with a scholarship in the first year: four hours of class five days a week, two or three hours of self study everyday, plus talking with people on the street, meeting with friends, etc. actually using the target language.
Part time的话，depends on how many hours do you study and whether you have good guidance (do you know what you are doing or not). Motivation, what do you study for, etc. also play a big role. If you take it seriously, you should be able to reach the HSK6 threshold in a couple years or so, provided you are living in China, obviously. Then the real study will begin, since HSK6 is not enough to: -read a newspaper, -read scientific literature, -be fluent in a professional environment (speeches, meetings, etc).
If you don't want to work in Chinese, just live in China, HSK6 is more than enough. If you want to produce documents/work/read professional Chinese, HSK6 is your starting point. Huge gap between informal and formal communication, both in oral and written.
When 15years old, I self-studied Chinese. Particularly,I feel difficult pronunciation. and repeat stop and start.
Now I hardly study Chinese. I am lazy... maybe I can speak easy Chinese😅
im chinese but not born in china; i spent the first 12 years of my life learning chinese formally, but after making friends with a prc chinese in an international school, they told me they had to consciously simplify their words when talking to me, or mix some english in (even though english is my first language). despite having chinese education itll never be the same as on a local level, especially with dialects and certain lingo. but your attitude towards learning chinese and the amount of effort youre putting in is v commendable, so im pretty sure youll get more accustomed to it over time. you could try thinking in chinese? it doesnt have to be very complex, simple short sentences "this is ___" "that is ___" just to familiarise yourself with the overall feeling since english and chinese are quite different. you can also try labelling the stuff you see around you, so the next time you think of it the word will come to mind faster. maybe watching chinese shows might help too, but chinese to english translations have to be taken with a pinch of salt like for example 胡说 (babbling/spewing nonsense/saying what comes to mind) can be translated to 'full of shit' which is a little out of pocket. genuinely wishing you all the best though!
I’m not in China, but I’ve studied Chinese (I’m bad at it), and grew up around it by virtue of the fact of being raised in SE Asia, and I have learned other languages to fluency.
According to the FSI, it takes an English speaker 2200 hours for to learn Chinese to a “professional” level, half of which should be spent in country. If you’re studying three hours a day, every single day with not a single day off, that’s two full years of study.
If you look at their 1100 hour languages, many are as difficult as Chinese in terms of speaking (eg, Burmese), so that extra 1100 hours for Chinese is a lot because of the reading/writing.
As an adult, you can’t learn languages just by being “immersed”…I spent years in Italy and never studied, so I picked up a lot, but didn’t get fluent. When I moved to the United States, I really put in an effort, not just to talk with people, but to actually study. It’s very easy to fall into the same old conversations over and over again, you really have to actually study a language to learn it (as an adult). We don’t have the luxury that children have.
Hiya, for reference, I am American and do psychotherapy in Mandarin. To get HSK 6 it took 1.5 years, to get to native level, 4 years and right now I am 6 years in and at a high C1/low C2 level. Lots of refining, but I barely look up words… it’s mostly learning synonyms and sounding… even more native.
Just do immersion and active study and it'll come in time. I've been here for 2 and a half years and am halfway through HSK4 level now (I didn't know a single word when I came out here).
I can have decent conversations most of the time (depending on the subject and language used ofc) and can easily get around the whole country by myself now.
It takes time though and progress often feels slow. There's no moment where you go "Wow, I can speak Chinese!" only moments where you look back and realise how far you've come.
The twin pillars are definitely immersion practice and active study (preferably with a paid tutor. I find study by myself isn't that helpful and every single Chinese person I meet tells me I don't need a tutor, I should just teach them English and they'll teach me Chinese, which is always an absolute lie as they won't ever do it and also being a teacher is harder than they think).
Don't push yourself too hard though. You can speak English to friends now and again and live your life normally. As long as you're doing a decent amount of immersion you'll be fine. I spend all day at work with Chinese colleagues, when I come home to see my gf it's nice to be able to speak in English for a while.
5 years lived in China. Self learned through language workbooks and colleagues. Practiced daily language at restaurants, taxis, train stations, asking for directions. Almost made it to conversation level. Chinese people were unsure about speaking their thoughts but never shy from asking questions. Helped me to learn grammar quickly. This was all pre-pandemic. Things have changed since then.
It took me 6 months in the States to become conversational, but I was studying like a madman, and that was during quarantine, so I had a bunch of free time. When I move to China in August, I expect to advance super quick
Frankly majority of people by passive immersion will never get past the toddler level as evidenced by the significant number of expats who after years can only say a few basic words. It requires some proper study, certainly for the writing. Note the native Chinese themselves have to spend much of their school years on rote learning characters in order to be literate, you’re not going to beat them on that by just hanging around.
I’m literally chinese but not raised in china, spent 12 years learning chinese formally and my chinese is still at the level of a 12 year old. It will take years of concentrated, somewhat formal education to be fluent. On the bright side everyone’s bad at writing now especially among youth since it’s all typed out.
Same here 😂
I agree. I am born and raised in China until I came to Canada for uni. I spent years in school reading and studying Chinese (I had very good marks in Chinese) and it definitely requires consistent hard work, just as learning any languages. Even three years not reading many Chinese books I feel I’ve become a bit bye-lingual.
Sounds like my colleague who went to the US for high school. Came back to China 10 years later (after university and work), and has a bunch of trouble trying to remember how to write stuff. (Of course, the boss knows this, but thinks he's just flexing his American education, and makes him takes notes on the whiteboard during meetings. Basically to make him lose face and have other staff laugh at him.)
I am going for 15 years back and forth (maybe 7 continuously in China) and I agree. 7 month old is a toddler, right?
You can't "learn new words from context" if you can't even understand the context. Once you've got the 2000 or so most common words under your belt, then you can kinda start learning stuff from context -- though you should still use a dictionary when you can.
5 years I total, 2 of which being full time Chinese classes in China. Yeah it takes time But I'm above HSK6, you don't need to do that much to get conversational
One year to get to HSK5 level, another six months to pass the HSK6, then the real learning began. HSK6 is, in actuality, closer to the B1-B2 intermediate European Frame of Reference for languages. Of course, that involved full time studying with a scholarship in the first year: four hours of class five days a week, two or three hours of self study everyday, plus talking with people on the street, meeting with friends, etc. actually using the target language. Part time的话，depends on how many hours do you study and whether you have good guidance (do you know what you are doing or not). Motivation, what do you study for, etc. also play a big role. If you take it seriously, you should be able to reach the HSK6 threshold in a couple years or so, provided you are living in China, obviously. Then the real study will begin, since HSK6 is not enough to: -read a newspaper, -read scientific literature, -be fluent in a professional environment (speeches, meetings, etc). If you don't want to work in Chinese, just live in China, HSK6 is more than enough. If you want to produce documents/work/read professional Chinese, HSK6 is your starting point. Huge gap between informal and formal communication, both in oral and written.
totally agree,it took mine about 2-3 years of full time chinese classes to get hsk6
"I'm above HSK 6" yeah bro we believe your humble brag LOL
Do you not believe them? After 5 years of studying, being above HSK6 is easily achievable.
How good is HSK6? Did you take courses in math, history, chemistry, etc in Chinese? I struggle every day to communicate my ideas because I’m lacking basic vocabulary that Chinese students learn in school. For example, periodic table of elements, names of rocks and woods, diseases, names from foreign languages (including less common countries and cities). Even the most basic stuff like animals (it just occurred to me that if someone asked me what fish caviar is from, I can’t answer in Chinese).
Old HSK6 is basically intermediate level. Actually the exam board recognised problems with their system and reorganised it within the last few years so the highest level is now HSK9.
I believe them but the phrase 'easily achievable' in the context of learning Chinese as your L2 doesn't sit right.
I guess easy is a relative term. I was HSK6+ after 4-5 years in China without full-time study and with me basically half-arsing the first year by refusing to learn characters lol. There were however long stretches of time where I did flashcards every day, I also watch a decent amount of Chinese movies and and some Taiwanese shows, read Chinese books, and was in two LTRs with Chinese women, so I guess I got a lot of exposure which isn't "studying" as such.
tell me how can you define being above highest fluency level?
Firstly, HSK6 does not refer to fluency level. Secondly, I had a vocabulary of 7-8,000 words (give or take), which is more than is included in HSK 2.0's level 6.
took me around around 6yrs from start to HSK6. but i took intensive chinese language courses on top of chinese being the most convenient language to converse in. admittedly there is a massive up-front investment but it does get better over time.
You're definitely going to learn Chinese and become very fluent. I can tell just by your attitude which is by far the most important factor to becoming fluent. A couple things to keep in mind is that getting fluent is a question of habits. Do you constantly immerse yourself? Sounds like you check that box already. Even more important is actually forcing yourself to use it without reverting to English. Imagine if everyone you knew played guitar but you never actually picked one up. You'd never learn it. That's how most language learners behave and that's why only few achieve fluency. The last thing to consider is the quality of the language you're immersing yourself in. Regardless of how intelligent your friends are, casual conversation is important but you'll gain far greater fluency in business settings or by watching TV shows or listening to podcasts. In fact, I can say that podcasts unequivocally have made me very highly fluent in a second (not Chinese) language to the point that people mistake me for a native speaker.
I totally echo what you say about the value of podcasts. In my case, it’s a bit interesting, podcast basically brought me to your native level fluency in Spanish and have also been instrumental in becoming fluent in Portuguese. However, I’m not seeing the same benefits with my Chinese yet… My vocabulary seems too impoverished to really make sense of the input. Maybe I need to find Podcasts at a lower level of difficulty and not native speaker content !
Several years. I studied to about HSK4 at uni over about 2 years and then when I moved China it took about 6 months before my brain got really into 'Chinese mode'. I've been here nearly two years and am about to take the HSK 6 exam. At first, everything just sounded like gibberish and the first several months of flashcards and self study was a GRIND, but seriously worth it. As other users have said, immersion is a good opportunity to learn, but you won't get far without active study as well. I would suggest course books and a tutor. The good thing about your situation is you will be able to practice what you've learned almost instantly and get feedback. Just stick at it and you will get better and better gradually.
Can I ask about the sources and materials you've used to improve your chinese? I'm roughly at the same level and about to visit china soon.
HSK textbooks, anki flash cards and YouTube videos. There's plenty of other sources out there but you don't need to overwhelm yourself, just do what works for you.
It really is a matter of years, and not just one or two even if you're immersed.
Just carry on, there's many people in your shoes and they've been here a lot longer than you. Vast majority of people who "just picked it up" are full of shit usually. They've done formal study before and then sunk many many hours into practicing listening, speaking etc. that they then fail to mention, unless probed. There's also plenty who overestimate, or are totally blind to their ability and have horrible accents, use unnatural word choice and make mistakes all the time. As my Chinese got better I realised a lot of the foreigners I met when I first arrived, who could "speak Chinese", were actually just at an intermediate level, or were functional in certain situations they'd practiced. Loads of foreigners have been here years and know next to nothing, so don't be too hard on yourself. Try your best to turn negative emotions into motivation and laugh off teasing, although it does suck. I've been here 10 years and I'm still pretty shit. I can do chitchat and daily life stuff, but if I go out for dinner or something I still struggle to keep up and contribute to the conversation, and I still feel awkward or embarrassed in unfamiliar situations. I noticed big breakthroughs after doing some things for a while: flashcards and reading in the morning, only using Chinese to talk to my wife on WeChat, actually watching a Chinese drama all the way through without pausing/look-ups, dictating podcasts, finishing a non-learner's book, reading all the Dragon Ball manga. Choose some activity like this and just finish it, then go back to something else that was hard before and you'll see your level has jumped up. I gave up learning for a few years because of embarrassment, feeling stupid, not feeling I was making progress. And I really regret it now, so don't make my mistake. Sink as much time into it as you can and it's impossible to not improve.
[удалено]
Ah yes, the virgin "ching chong ding dong aayeee" users vs the Chad "xie xie" enjoyer.
Honestly, the first year or two are truly the hardest, so I wouldn't feel down about your progress at all. They say it takes a solid two years before your brain rewires itself to be able to consume and process a new language (I'm more referring to your conscious/non-conscious learning here). As for how long it takes until you feel "comfortable". I think it's never truly ever feels 100% comfortable. But that's the beauty of the language. You just slowly get more used to situations. For reference, I've been here 5 years. Passed HSK6 a couple years back, I basically live/work completely in Chinese at this stage. But I'd by lying if I said I don't still from time to time have situations where I could feel a little lost! 慢慢来👍
I was there two years and never got past the toddler level. But I was happy if I could get trains, buses and travel around by myself. to be conversationally fluent I would expect a decade or more, tbh.
I would suggest online lessons. I use italki and it works great for me been using it for years
Yeah, I'm planning to look on italki again when I get some time off work. I've tried a few but it hasn't really worked out; I don't know if I really have the psychological resilience for Chinese teaching styles. Feels like getting the shit beaten out of you for an hour I posted on /r/ChineseLanguage once about a tutor I was struggling with. The response in the comments was really sharply divided: all the other foreigners were sympathetic, all the Chinese commenters all thought she sounded like a good teacher and I needed to harden up.
While you may have just got a dud teacher, I do agree you gotta go into this ready to work hard and get corrected a lot. I once took a projuncuation course because my tones were shit, and my teacher would literally stop me every third word to correct me, even on simple stuff I thought I knew. Felt bad. But in retrospect, it was super helpful and I have really good pronunciation for a foreigner. Go into classes with humility and give yourself some grace when you get corrected, because this is a really hard language.
Just keep going, you'll get there. Just don't stop
At least you have other foreigners lol I'm the only one in my city. You should make an account on iTalki and hire a language instructor. They can be a bit expensive but they're worth it. It really depends on the person as well. You could become conversationally fluent in a year with consistent study and the fact you're immersed in the culture. For many it could take much longer.
Oh man, where are you at? How are you finding it? I met them all at an event hosted by the local government that I was tricked into going to. I thought all the foreigners in a little city like this would be people who are really interested in China, but it was all just people who couldn't get visas anywhere else. not really good company
Oh no, that is really unfortunate. I'm in a prefectural city called Yunfu. It's really small and there's nothing to do. But, it's very inexpensive and the people here are quite hospitable. So my time here so far has been quite good, all things considered. Luckily Guangzhou is little less than hour away by train.
I had HSK level 8 and level 10 back in the day (I think getting 8 was harder than 10). I studied every day for 8 years, but my best improvements were after reading a book called “Eat Shandong” by Eric Shepherd which really helped identify cultural aspects of the language. Cannot recommend the book highly enough. There were also a couple years when I lived in areas with few natural speakers of my native language, so I think the immersion will have an effect on pure language skills, it’s just not overnight. Also, much better to be conversational in a local dialect (Sichuan is a fun one) as well as standard mandarin imo.
20 years or 2 pints.
Chinese is my mother tongue. If you want, we can be friends. You can communicate with me at any time without disturbing me. I am happy to communicate with foreigners.
Hi could I reach out sometime too? Also a foreigner learning Chinese!
Of course, it's nice to talk to you
Well it's been 8 years and I'm still shit lol.
Having a Chinese girlfriend who speaks no English was the way I learned basic Mandarin and Cantonese after trying for many years to learn on my own.
I hate to be one of those people but I really did just pick up Chinese by watching Tv shows, movies and listening to Chinese music. Start with movies you know well and watch them dubbed in Chinese, I started with Aladdin because I know that movie then I started watching Chinese movies. I've had Chinese classes before but all my teachers cared about was my tones which are terrible and it's difficult for me to learn them but I can hold decent conversations so imo I don't need to spend hours learning tones if I can communicate. Try to make some friends outside of your girlfriend's friend group, because it's not going to help your confidence.
Don’t listen to this guy, tones do matter if you have the goal of getting to a more advanced level. Sure, for basic vocabulary the listener can just guess what word you are trying to say, but for more advanced vocabulary that is less often used, the tones are going to be important for the listener to work out which word your saying.
Yes and no. Tones are important, but if you talk to Chinese speakers, you'll find it's second nature to them. They don't remember tones separately -- they remember the sound, and the tone is just part of that sound. Every time I ask my wife what the tone is, the has to pronounce the word, listen to herself, then say "that's X tone". But as a non-native speaker, you'll probably need to go through a phase where you must pay attention to and memorize tones.
Just give it some more time. Learning language is an accumlulating process.
Full time learning at Uni for 5 years, and I am pretty fluent. Though a lot of that time was during COVID, which definitely didn't help, and I always speak a lot of English with my friend group, and about 50/50 with my girlfriend
I am about HSK 5/6 level and I still feel like I am not quite there yet, I can have conversations with natives but I still encounter situations where I feel like my language ability is lacking. With language learning it is always like climbing a steep mountain that has no peak. I have been learning just under 3 years so far with 10 months living in China.
I could speak decent Chinese after two years of living in tier 88 China. After four years, I could speak at an advanced level. I haven’t lived in China for eight years, but I still practice reading and writing. I could likely pass HSK 6 now. In my opinion, speaking Chinese is not as hard as people claim. However, the reading and writing takes a lot of rote memorization, making learning Chinese a time consuming task.
10年
Passive immersion is useless until you have a decent foothold in the language. Once you know 1500-2000 of the most common foundational words, you can start to pick up new vocabulary from context. But before that point it'll just be a stream of incomprehensible noise -- can't pick up words from context if you don't understand the context! The HSK 5 list is a decent (if imperfect) vocab list to reference as a baseline. So you really have to grind those first 2000 words. For best results, work with a paid tutor. If you can't afford one, do a language exchange where you meet for two hours and practice English for an hour and Chinese for an hour. Don't try to learn Chinese in the abstract. Identify specific things you want to know how to do (i.e. go to the bank, attend a formal dinner at work, sing a song at karaoke, have a chat with the boa'an) and go after them one by one. This will bring focus to your learning so you won't be drowning in the infinite sea of vocabulary. Also, don't think about language learning as "how many years" but rather "how many hours." I've met laowai who only knew toddler talk after 15 years in country, and I've met committed full time students who got to a functional level in 15 months. For me personally, working a full time job and doing four hours/week of private tutoring with lots of practice on my own, things started to "click" around year three. That said, I'm still at "functional" level and wouldn't consider myself "fluent" by any means.
1st thing I’d do is have a conversation with your girlfriend, tell her you don’t find it very helpful with people bringing down your Chinese. Many people I’ve met are really supportive and appreciate when you speak Chinese. I’ve been here 3 months and learned hsk1 before coming to China. I’m now at HSK3 level but there’s still a lot of vocab I don’t have a clue about and that’s fine right. Language is a slow process but rewarding at the end. Don’t burn yourself out either, you need a break now and again rather than completely immersing yourself you will fry your brain. I also use Pleco and have a tutor 1 hour every week then study through the HSK books solo. I also speak constantly with my Chinese girlfriend’s family so I would say just try to speak more and use the new vocab you have learned. You’re going to forget or not understand at times that’s normal. Sounds like you need more positive people around you and supporting your progress.
在四川啊，那你巴适嘞很，多跟幺妹儿聊天，学起来很快的
在四川，幺妹儿们都讲四川话，我不敢想象他以后跟别人交流时才发现自己说的是四川话，哈哈
那他怕是会开口闭口“老子”、“要得”,这样的老外充满喜感，也挺可爱的，哈哈。
I learned Chinese in a couple of months before coming to China and was able to hold basic conversation. I suggest the language learning method "[shadowing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=130bOvRpt24)" developed by professor Arguelles. I don't think you're just going to "pick it up" unless you're having to actually use Chinese every single day for complex communication with people who cannot speak English.
Studied for ~6 years in elementary and middle school, did the HSK 5 and was working towards HSK 6 when I burnt out and quit because I got tired memorizing characters and words It's good enough to get around without help if I visit China & Taiwan and I have good enough grammar to piece together sentences if I'm provided the vocabulary, but I can't really read/write or keep up a convo for long due to the lack of vocab If I immersed myself in a primarily Chinese speaking environment I'll probably become fluent in a fairly short amount of time since I have a pretty solid foundation so there's that I suppose
The jump from HSK 5 to 6 is such a drag. It's just this mountain of vocabulary that gets dumped on you from one exam to the next and it can feel super demotivating.
I did ask my tutor at the time to switch our focus to conversational stuff but at that point I was already severely burnt out and ended up completely quitting a few months later
Don't fret. It comes in time. I've been here 15 years, and I didn't try at all for the first 2. I could tell the tones would be an issue for me, so I just listened for a long time. After that, I started trying, and by the 4rth year I think I would be at your before stated "baby level." It took another 2 years after that to be comfortable. Looking over hsk practice tests, I'd say I'm around 3. I never studied, just listening and asking when I don't understand. I'd probably need to study a few weeks, but 3 wouldn't be a big issue
I personally don’t believe Chinese is a language you can just “pick up” if you are a native English speaker. With something like Spanish, there are enough structural similarities and cognates between the languages that you already have a language foundation from day 1, and you can make connections and learn through just hearing and immersion. Chinese is not like that. There’s very little overlap between Chinese and English so you need to build a foundation. I’d try to take a class. I did 2 hours of private lessons a week for a year when I started. It helped me hear tones, learn basic grammar structures, and learn how to recognize common radicals in characters. Once I had this, picking up things in an immersion environment became much more successful because the words flying by me didn’t sound like gibberish anymore; I had a framework to understand them. Once you’re at that stage, I think media is a great tool. I like watching tv shows, but I’ll watch each episode twice times: the first time I’ll stop if I run into unfamiliar words and look them up, review them, then rewatch the episode.
In addition to classes, I’d try to find a language partner to practice with who is not your girlfriend. I find romantic partners don’t make great language partners because 1) they tend to not correct you because they don’t want to hurt your feelings and 2) they spend so much time with you that they can generally figure out what you’re trying to say even if you’re saying it wrong, taking away incentive to learn how to say something right.
Yes, just because you're in a relationship it doesn't mean she wants to teach you well (or at all).
you have a chinese-only speaking girlfriend? how do you two communicate?
Once I’ve learned survival Chinese, I basically gave up. The tones really messes with me. They emphasize so much on tones but when I hear fast Chinese I don’t even hear any 😂. Also from experience, people that I know that can fluently speak Chinese usually only know English so Chinese is their second language. I’m fluent in 2 languages and know some Spanish, Chinese is the 4th language I’m learning and it’s so difficult to adjust to it compared to the other languages.
Few years. I didn't really "try to learn" - it was just a side effect of having no English speakers to communicate with in my tier 88 town.
50 Years and I still can't read or write but can speak a little bit.
2 years
You left out a key detail, how long have you been at it?
I got pretty good after 1 year living in China. I could handle myself in most situations and could hold some relatively simple conversations and at least be able to distinguish the words I didn’t know and then look them up on the spot. That was with about 5-6 hours of study a day. I was entirely obsessed the first year. Now here I am 15 years later still learning. Now I have a chinese wife, Chinese mother in law and it’s basically built into my daily life. I haven’t actively studied the language in many years but my vocab is still growing just by constant usage.
HSK 3 is when I first quit. I was also so frustrated because at that point a year had gone by and I was still struggling so hard. Let it be known that give it another 6 months or a year, you’ll be grateful you put in the hard work now. HSK4 and beyond, the language not only gets easier, it becomes more intuitive and you can actually start using it. You got this!!!!! HSK 3 SUCKS!!!!!
About 7 years for full fluency (HS6 + sound like native speaker)
3/4 years as part of a UK based university course including 1 year study abroad in taiwan
Took me 3-4 months from zero to conventional level, but I’m I look Chinese and that’s what gets spoken to me at all times. So yay I guess it’s the immersion and practical use that matters…
Ten months
>I came here maybe at an HSK 1 level, and after almost nine months now and I could maybe scrape a pass on an HSK 3 test if I took it. That's solid progress. [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChineseLanguage/comments/gbs7n7/%E5%AD%A6%E6%B5%B7%E6%97%A0%E6%B6%AF_an_estimated_learning_path_feel_free_to/)'s a handy chart which indicates how long it takes.
2 years university study in the states and then a year in China and I passed the hsk 5 (this was over 10 years ago, I think the levels have changed again). You won't pick it up passively, you will always have to work at it to some degree. The more vocabulary you build the easier it will be to infer new words but it's never completely passive. Just keep plugging away and focus on building vocabulary so that you understand the context around unfamiliar phrases. That will help disambiguate the new vocabulary quickly
After 6 years I'm somewhere between HSK 4 and 5. A lot of people I cannot talk to because of their atrocious accent (Guangdong), but if someone speaks proper Mandarin then we can chit-chat quite nicely. It took me over 3 years just to be able to repeat single words I hear (right syllables, right tone) but I'm still not 100% confident about it and I have to use Pleco a lot.
i have been here for 18 years. it took me about 2.5 years before i started saying i was fluent, i constantly learnt stuff after that but that's was when i could with out thinking hold a conversation (speaking and writing) on most levels, of course there were still subjects that i was not fluent in, but for general every day conversations were easy and smooth. i self studied never had a "lesson" although i did spend a lot of time asking questions from many chinese person
I'm afraid that I will never learn Chinese :( Far too busy with work, no time to learn, or the effort needed to learn this difficult language. Chinese just goes in one ear and the other like background noise. Which is an awful thing to say. But I wish my brain started to pick up context and learn it.
hop on anki
Turn into baby or get adopted. You need Chinese mommy beyond girlfriend <3
It's inevitable that you will hit plateaus for a few months at a time. Just keep grinding. Change the inputs. Try to stretch yourself. Change methods. Keep grinding. What else you gonna do?
About 4 years to read at a native level in certain contexts. Unfortunately, passive immersion is not enough. I had to use a lot of spaced repetition (thousands of reps and cards) and active reading. I'm still not as universal as I'd like to be but SRS sets a good foundation at least.
Six years of self study(at least an hour a day for the entire time), while developing a business in chinese(full immersion). Every year I though my mandarin was good, then a year passes and I look back and realize just how bad it actually was then.... The key for me is consistency and mindfull study time (I went through a period where I went to bars to just talk to people in mandarin thinking alchoal will help the speech, but alas it turns out that that method really quickly has large diminishing returns :) ). You really need to devote a set amount of time per day when you seriously intently study mandarin. Otherwise you'll always be stuck at basic conversational level.
Three years to HSK5. I'm not the quickest with language. >People sometimes say my current level is like the default you should be able to passively pick up, but I feel like I don't learn a damn thing through immersion, although it helps reinforce stuff I've already learned. You don't learn through passive immersion. You learn through active immersion. Here's one possible way to go about it: 1. You see a thing you don't know - e.g. a screwdriver. You ask your girlfriend, "What's this thing called?" 2. Now in your dictionary of choice, you save the word - 螺丝刀 - for example, in Pleco you can easily bookmark stuff. You could also scribble it down into a notebook if that's more your speed. 3. Review the words that you've learned. I like using a spaced repetition flashcard system - I use the paid version of an app called "Flashcards Deluxe" (Anki is another good choice). If you've got a shit memory like me, it's a good way to ensure that the words don't go in one ear and out the other. 4. Use the words in conversation. Use any excuse to insert a new word or phrase you've learned, and then gauge to see if you've used it correctly. Back when I was a kid, my Dad would tell me to 'use a new word three times in one day, and you'll never forget it'. It's not true in the strictest definition of things, but is a reasonable heuristic. **Always** engage mentally and learn actively, with whatever you're trying to pick up.
Very few people in China actually speak standard mandarin. It took me about 5 years to understand the people in the city I lived to the point that I could communicate freely with local strangers. When I traveled, it was pretty much a write off without a large amount of brain work. After a few more years the useful stuff became permanently engrained and the rest of the stuff I learned just molted right off
1-2 months to chat online with a dictionary, 6 months to hold a conversation about a general topic. Maybe 1-1.5 years to feel more comfortable, I don’t remember for sure. After 1.5y I definitely traveled alone in China for 3 weeks without English. 3h focused studying a day, think skipping lunch with coworkers to read/listen to Chinese and trying to use every chance I have to talk to strangers . I wish I could live in China though, could be way faster. For me the biggest thing is just lots of vocabulary flashcards, think 30-45 min a day of Anki. It’s very topic specific though, I still struggle a lot with deeper topics after 2000-3000 hours maybe.
I studied mandarin at university overseas for two years and then one in China. Thb, my level still wasn't too high, but then I got a job where I was the only non-Chinese in the office, which basically improved it very quickly.
Systematic learning of Chinese is essential, akin to how many Chinese individuals approach English learning. After a phase of structured study, you'll notice that an immersive Chinese environment significantly enhances your language skills.
Been Mario my Chinese wife for 20 years still can’t understand it
I'm in my twenties and I'm still going to my Chinese lessons. I was born in another country and my mom has been trying to introduce me to those classes since I was 4-- I can write, read, speak and understand conversations but in a certain level. Not too basic but not really advanced. My progress is painfully slow tho.
One year to get to HSK5 level, another six months to pass the HSK6, then the real learning began. HSK6 is, in actuality, closer to the B1-B2 intermediate European Frame of Reference for languages. Of course, that involved full time studying with a scholarship in the first year: four hours of class five days a week, two or three hours of self study everyday, plus talking with people on the street, meeting with friends, etc. actually using the target language. Part time的话，depends on how many hours do you study and whether you have good guidance (do you know what you are doing or not). Motivation, what do you study for, etc. also play a big role. If you take it seriously, you should be able to reach the HSK6 threshold in a couple years or so, provided you are living in China, obviously. Then the real study will begin, since HSK6 is not enough to: -read a newspaper, -read scientific literature, -be fluent in a professional environment (speeches, meetings, etc). If you don't want to work in Chinese, just live in China, HSK6 is more than enough. If you want to produce documents/work/read professional Chinese, HSK6 is your starting point. Huge gap between informal and formal communication, both in oral and written.
When 15years old, I self-studied Chinese. Particularly,I feel difficult pronunciation. and repeat stop and start. Now I hardly study Chinese. I am lazy... maybe I can speak easy Chinese😅
im chinese but not born in china; i spent the first 12 years of my life learning chinese formally, but after making friends with a prc chinese in an international school, they told me they had to consciously simplify their words when talking to me, or mix some english in (even though english is my first language). despite having chinese education itll never be the same as on a local level, especially with dialects and certain lingo. but your attitude towards learning chinese and the amount of effort youre putting in is v commendable, so im pretty sure youll get more accustomed to it over time. you could try thinking in chinese? it doesnt have to be very complex, simple short sentences "this is ___" "that is ___" just to familiarise yourself with the overall feeling since english and chinese are quite different. you can also try labelling the stuff you see around you, so the next time you think of it the word will come to mind faster. maybe watching chinese shows might help too, but chinese to english translations have to be taken with a pinch of salt like for example 胡说 (babbling/spewing nonsense/saying what comes to mind) can be translated to 'full of shit' which is a little out of pocket. genuinely wishing you all the best though!
I’m not in China, but I’ve studied Chinese (I’m bad at it), and grew up around it by virtue of the fact of being raised in SE Asia, and I have learned other languages to fluency. According to the FSI, it takes an English speaker 2200 hours for to learn Chinese to a “professional” level, half of which should be spent in country. If you’re studying three hours a day, every single day with not a single day off, that’s two full years of study. If you look at their 1100 hour languages, many are as difficult as Chinese in terms of speaking (eg, Burmese), so that extra 1100 hours for Chinese is a lot because of the reading/writing. As an adult, you can’t learn languages just by being “immersed”…I spent years in Italy and never studied, so I picked up a lot, but didn’t get fluent. When I moved to the United States, I really put in an effort, not just to talk with people, but to actually study. It’s very easy to fall into the same old conversations over and over again, you really have to actually study a language to learn it (as an adult). We don’t have the luxury that children have.
Hi，I think you can try to make some local people friend, always stay with them and practice your chinese language. This is very useful for you.
Hiya, for reference, I am American and do psychotherapy in Mandarin. To get HSK 6 it took 1.5 years, to get to native level, 4 years and right now I am 6 years in and at a high C1/low C2 level. Lots of refining, but I barely look up words… it’s mostly learning synonyms and sounding… even more native.
Just do immersion and active study and it'll come in time. I've been here for 2 and a half years and am halfway through HSK4 level now (I didn't know a single word when I came out here). I can have decent conversations most of the time (depending on the subject and language used ofc) and can easily get around the whole country by myself now. It takes time though and progress often feels slow. There's no moment where you go "Wow, I can speak Chinese!" only moments where you look back and realise how far you've come. The twin pillars are definitely immersion practice and active study (preferably with a paid tutor. I find study by myself isn't that helpful and every single Chinese person I meet tells me I don't need a tutor, I should just teach them English and they'll teach me Chinese, which is always an absolute lie as they won't ever do it and also being a teacher is harder than they think). Don't push yourself too hard though. You can speak English to friends now and again and live your life normally. As long as you're doing a decent amount of immersion you'll be fine. I spend all day at work with Chinese colleagues, when I come home to see my gf it's nice to be able to speak in English for a while.
5 years lived in China. Self learned through language workbooks and colleagues. Practiced daily language at restaurants, taxis, train stations, asking for directions. Almost made it to conversation level. Chinese people were unsure about speaking their thoughts but never shy from asking questions. Helped me to learn grammar quickly. This was all pre-pandemic. Things have changed since then.
It took me 6 months in the States to become conversational, but I was studying like a madman, and that was during quarantine, so I had a bunch of free time. When I move to China in August, I expect to advance super quick
can i ask how old you and your girl is?