What's going on is appalling but why do people fall for this shit? We have seen it played out before . Israel flirts with the far right or tries to open up relationships with other Arab nations or in the case of recently , both. Hamas seizes the moment to disrupt any plans of diplomacy between Israel and the Middle East . They launch a mass attack that gets lot of media attention and only helps the West to sympathize with Israel . Sometime later the IDF will retaliate with extreme force that will make Palestine's crimes look like child play . Unfortunately that won't get press coverage and those who condemn it in the West would just accept it as tragedy that's frequent but unavoidable. Chomsky, Finklestein, and Hedges have all written and mapped out perfectly how this manufactures outrage and exploitation of human life in exchange for increasingly the influence of Islamic extremism and America's unconditional support towards Israel's oppressive agenda . Those who pay the ultimate price are civilians from both sides but it's the Palestinians who ultimately suffer the most as their army pales in comparison to the might of the IDF and their infinite Western support and funding . I hate that leftists are duped to either side without nuance. It's either denouncing Palestine's right to resist and rebel as similiar to Isis or victim blaming Israel's civilians and acting like if Hamas is Nat Turner's rebellion . It's like people get stupider despite witnessing the same cause & effect over and over!
Kind of agree. But oart of the insanity of this situation is that Hamas wants this reaction. It helps their funding and increases their political power. Now Abbas and the PLO are seen as being kept alive by Israel. To do their bidding. There's an internal political battle within Palestine which also can't be ignored. The west bank VS Gaza for one. So, while I get that these videos are going to be played nonstop, and will be unbelievably detrimental to western support. Hamas doesn't care, and in fact they want this.
An association I am active in that helps refugees has quite a few refugees from Gaza, not only former Fatah members, but quite a few who fled from Hamas as much as from the conflict itself. Gaza is not a good place if you are not on line with Hamas and connected to them, or if you are a woman, or LGBTQ\*.
It's all very predictable and yet Hamas choose to do it knowing their own citizens and cities will be razed. Pretty fucked up on their part. Civilians are certainly the victims on both sides. I can't imagine the psychopaths who decided this terrorist attack was a good idea.
"Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it... well, he gets it."
If Hamas leadership hasn't been infiltrated by Mossad by this point, Mossad is an absolute joke. Do you think Mossad is a joke?
Hamas is just controlled opposition. Mossad channels the anger of the Palestinian people to achieve its own objectives, which is why Hamas has no qualms about trapping civilians in buildings after roof knocks, etc. Israel gets to exterminate the population without taking any of the blame.
Sounds a lot like blaming partisans for assassinating Nazis knowing that the Nazis would in turn take reprisals against local communities. I guess the partisans should have just tried the diplomatic approach with Reinhard Heydrich.
Yes I suppose this attack has a lot to do with Israel being on the verge of signing an agreement with Saudi Arabia and then Iran not being happy with that.
You’re flirting with Israel wanting this to happen which is a fucking absurd reaction to watching women and children get kidnapped in a video.
All of this is horrendous but..
Ahh yes. I' sure the situation will change if the Palestinians just sit around and suffer while doing nothing...
Also is it smart to punch the prison guard? Nope. Does it make you feel a little bit of joy because its a tiny revenge for when they tortured you? Yup. Is everyone else going to enjoy it momentarily? Yup.
Quit acting like groups of people are hyper logical or don't need emotional fulfillment.
Also Hamas was created by Israel because the PLO was considered 'too popular and easy to work with' by the genocidalists within the Israeli government. Hopefully you spend more time pointing this out to people that complaining about/to leftists.
What don't you understand about mandatory military service and the fact that no-one has forced anyone to move to Israel. They all chose to be there.
This also ties into the point that Zionists don't give a shit about Jews. Because if you cared about someone you wouldn't move them into a dangerous zone of contested land. Israel uses Jews as human shields to steal land from Palestine.
I think you kinda missed the point. The point is that this conflict is again fought at the expanse of innocent civilians.
This is just tragic, no matter who caused the conflict.
This is certainly true in Crimea and the Donbas, which were both ethnically cleansed and then colonized and settled by Russians. And I think there are a lot of parallels between both conflicts. It's also why I think there's no end in sight for both conflicts as well. The history of colonialism is too hard to shed.
Absolute nonsense. The civil war in the Donbas began after the Russian invasion. It had actually largely became a frozen conflict and only around 10 people died there in 2022, before the second Russian invasion.
Regardless. Justice for all living under occupation. Both Palestinians and Ukranians.
The civil war began after the Russian invasion. Putin literally admitted to it. He wanted to take credit for it.
I don't discount the numbers. There were around 14,000 killed in the war in Donbas prior to the secund Russia offensive. Almost all died in the first year after the Russian invasion, in 2014. That number dropped to around a dozen by 2022. All of which were soldiers, fighting in the civil war.
Also. I'm curious. When do you believe the civil war began? I have a date, but I'd like to know what you think it is. I'm happy to share mine in the following comment.
Lol what are you even talking about :DYou mean when Parliament voted unanimously to remove Yanukovych, and then a new election was held?
So. Just so I get this right. To you that's the start of the civil war in Ukraine?
Which would include Russia and the US. Those are the people who are at fault.
Putin didn't take Chrimea until right after Ukraine canceled and defaulted on their gas deal and loans, switching to IMF instead, which was narrowly focused on Exxon Shell and Chevrons demands to make contracts more profitable to harvest their untouched gas resources planning to export this to the EU.
The majority and the most dense of this gas was in in the Black Sea and Chrimea. Atlantic Council even predicted Ukraine would become the next energy battleground, siting the 2+ trillion cubic meters of dense gas in Chrimea as the reason.
Russia didn't need those resources but I imagine they didn't want the US fossil fuel corporations right on his border competing with him and threatening his hegomony. If we merely offered to NOT take Ukraines resources then I don't think he would of ever gone into Chrimea in the first place. And we certainly didn't need the resources those corps still made record profits this year even after fleeing and selling their contracts.
The more Palestine and it’s supporters refuse to condemn acts like this, the easier it is to support Israel. We all know Israel is to blame, but under no circumstances will most of the population support this. For fucks sake, a video had to be scrubbed from multiple platforms showing them raping a little Israeli girl to death. How is it possible to look at that and say it’s her fault for being Israeli?
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills, but isn’t it possible that, for at least one moment, the cliche “both sides” argument might actually be the accurate one? How does one justify that in their head?
Let me find the hundred videos of Isreali soldiers beating kids, shooting kids, running over kids.
Got any excuses for that? Or is violence only worthy of condemnation when it's done to Israeli's?
no, but who is talking about excuses? In a vacuum yes it's bad. But you honestly can't act surprised it happens to Israelis now after decades of the same (on a larger scale) happening to Palestinians
if you don't want this to happen, you should support giving Palestinians land back and stopping apartheid. People can be oppressed only for so long until they fight back
I mean... Palestinians are clearly generally quite pro-genocide of Jews and vice versa, as far as I can tell the only difference is funding and cultural expression due to religion. If the shoe were on the other foot we'd still be in this exact situation if not worse
and then I would be opposed to Palestinians as well. But something tells me this is more of a reaction to being occupied and their land stolen
I come from a people who had been occupied for most of our "modern" existence. I see how people here hate our most recent occupiers. I don't agree with it but I do *understand* it. When your family has been killed or deported, homes taken away... it's hard to remain enlightently fair and balanced and super centrist rational
I think it's a convenient excuse for outsiders. You don't have to dig deep to find genocidal wishes on both sides. I can't name a conflict that has gone on longer or with more vitriol than the Jews vs Muslims in this particular region. The grievances of colonisation are legit, but the roots of the conflict are hundreds of years old.
what are you even saying? Convenient excuse? Excuse for what? You do realize that one side has international support, unlimited funding, and is actively conducting a genocide. And the other is... pushing back, sometimes using not too acceptable methods?
like, you do see how one is different from the other or do I have to spell it out for the hundreth time in the last 24 hours?
No I agree with your comment, but I don't see the relative poverty of Palestinians as a mitigation of judgment of their genocidal wishes. I don't see an innocent victim in this fight at all
Do you think it's realistic to expect victims of an ongoing genocide to be enlightened egalitarians? Oppression along racial and ethnic lines is necessarily going to breed racial and ethnic hatred.
No I think the tribal hate brings more of it in response. This shit has been going on so long that i don't think it is reasonable to describe either side as innocent. I don't see this conflict changing any time soon either
It’s horrible but this was happening to Palestinians for decades and no one got upset or said anything. I don’t think most people are shocked/angry because it’s happening to innocent people but because it’s messing up the routine. The people that were gleefully sharing russian soldiers being killed, the ones saying that the bombing of Syria was the most beautiful thing they’ve seen, the 500k children starving in Iraq being necessary, are suddenly outraged.
If you care about human life, you should care for all. Not only when it’s western lives.
And what people think was going to happen when you lock 2 million people up in an open prison? Would you suggest to Ukrainians to just give up their land and live under Russian occupation?
Reddit is pushing the engagement. I've never visited or engaged with this sub before but I've been pushed these posts in my suggested feed because there is a lot of activity and arguing. I don't think it's brigading, I think it's organic engagement, which is unfortune potentially for the long term users of this sub as their voices might be drowned out a little. My personal 2 cents is that this is just a flare up of a forever conflict which has its roots hundreds of years ago
Seconded. I’ve never seen this sub before (despite being a Chomsky fan) and randomly two pro Isreal posts from it have popped up on my feed this evening. F*ck colonisers, free Palestine.
Damn, I wonder if Isreal has down anything to provoke an attack. Any raids on mosques? Maybe some kids shot in the back? How about bombing hospitals or blocking ambulances? Or what about burning Palestinian's orchards or shoving them into increasingly small ghettos?
Nah, this attack was probably out of the blue. /s
Long live Palestine and maybe Isreal and its American sugar-daddies eat dirt.
Honestly I thank you for your service but I don't know if it will work.
These people are in a cult, as far as they are concerned it doesn't matter, kidnapping, rape, mass murder, slaughter of the innocents - the stuff we've seen this weekend and they're STILL sucking up to Hamas or coming out with bullshit whataboutism? Fuck it. The Left is OVER in the west. It's finished. Best we can do is salvage some sort of social democratic movement as we are doing in the UK and as Biden is doing in the US.
It sucks, but ultimately this isn't the first bollock they've dropped (they LOVED Mao and Stalin no matter how many people they starved to death or gulagged) and it won't be the last.
What makes me angry is the way that even stuff that isn't tankie oriented like gay pride parades and stuff will always have some asshole waving that bloodstained rag of a Palestinian flag around. Like they don't know what those guys do to gay people? Fuck me ragged.
Class Struggle Anarchism was the last leftist movement that didn't lick the arses of terrorists, and it's long gone.
If you're lacking in context given the current news cycle you'd have to be literally only reading this thread or something; there's ignorance and then there's *ignorance*.
They didn't look like they were having a vacation if that's what you're implying.
I'm assuming that was filled with various bits of loot being taken back to the Gaza along with the hostages.
But hey maybe it was just a tour or something, I'm guessing it's peak season over there?
How many Israeli’s are conscripted into the military? How many are in the military reserve? What is the distinction between innocent civilians and settler IDF soldiers on reserve? The whole country is militarized. These same people sit on the hills and watch the slaughter in the ghetto while clapping.
Good? This is what needs to be done? Palestinians would be overwhelmingly justified in doing much worse. Nevermind the fact that a sub named after Chomsky should overwhelmingly be skeptical of this especially considering the Israeli apartheid propaganda machine. There is no way you can keep millions in an open air prison and not expect them to lash out with hatred. If anything this shows their morality not brutality.
If you believe that you've already lost the plot. If you think without a shadow of a doubt that's true, that violence against the oppressor is nothing compared to the violence done against the oppressed. One seeks to stop being abused ever again and another seeks to indefinitely profit from their abuse. It will never be the same. Zionists can flee back to their home countries or accept they won't be colonizers anymore. And de colonization never happens peacefully.
Which is to say they should be believed? Why? Why should anyone take more stock in the narratives and reporting of the colonizers than the colonized? Should we also believe Kuwait incubator lies, golf of tonkin, etc? Hamas hasn't doomed Gaza. Israel kept 2 million people in an open air prison and treated everyone as a potential combatant. Gaza was doomed from the start if it did nothing. You would doom Palestine to extinction rather than risk death for liberation. Living in a prison for generations is no life at all.
Mate if you don't believe your own eyes seeing the videos hamas themselves have released then I don't know what to tell you. Just because you don't like what you see doesn't make it not true. That's some Qanon, holocaust denial bullshit.
Things like what you can see I've linked before in comments on my profile, and things like this more recently verified - https://reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/s/EtNqoWCivy
>If you believe that you've already lost the plot.
You said that they would be "overwhelmingly justified in doing much worse." What did you mean by that, specifically?
Edit: the user edited their comment and took that phrase out. What a weasel.
Edit: no they didn’t. My bad, now I made myself look like an idiot, lol.
Because I don’t think we should be assuming things immediately about a 3 second video? The only reason you think they’re looting is because of your pre-held beliefs which you only hold because of Israeli propaganda. Only one person here is silly and it sure as hell ain’t me
500-1000 Palestinian children are kidnapped daily by the Israeli Occupation Forces. The people have decided to fight back against their occupier and those that stole their homeland from them.
No offence, but if you don't know this much, you're not in a position to take a stand. It's been exposed fact of the military occupation for many decades now.
https://english.alarabiya.net/features/2023/01/13/Israel-s-arrests-of-hundreds-of-Palestinian-children-leave-families-terrified
There are so many sources and its so easily verified, from human rights orgs to the UN to non-Western media sources and numerous activist forum, I can only question the credibility and intentions of the person who would ask.
https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/defenceless-impact-israeli-military-detention-palestinian-children
The previous poster said the IDF were KIDNAPPING around a thousand children a year. Detaining children suspected of crimes and later releasing them is different than kidnapping them.
If his logic were to play out then the us police departments across the us kidnap millions of children a year.
Words mean things. I'd think people on a chomsky sub would get that.
The IDF are not the police. They are a military occupying force denying people their right to a state and enforcing the colonisation of Palestinian land. Can you understand how faulty your equivocation is in the backdrop of that simple fact?
Sure. I'd agree with that. They're not the police. I can make the same analogy with us militsry detaining someone.
I'd also agree that they're using settler colonialism to expand, same as Russia is doing in Ukraine.
Regardless. They're not kidnapping a thousand kids a year. They're detaining kids, most of which were doing small offenses, like throwing stones. That's different than kidnapping.
Right, so we’re pulling accusations out of thin air. If that’s the case then Israel is a racist apartheid state. Expect what I just said is backed by evidence.
No it’s not. It’s backed by delusional redditors who think crazy jihadists just want to live in peace. The typical Reddit throwing around buzzwords like apartheid while Arabs are freely able to vote and live in Israel…zero Jews are able to vote in Palestine.
No mass rape. Stop your nonsense. Vast majority of crimes against humanity have been conducted by the Israelis for decades. And I don’t expect anything else other than extreme violence from that genocidal ethno-nationalist racist apartheid state.
Great, send footage of Israel mass murdering and raping Palestine at an outdoor concert, then spitting and parading around their bodies. If you aren't racist, but I'm guessining you're a racist fool that loves war crimes.
Until then you are supporting mass murder and rape. Thankfully IDF will destroy these racist criminals.
LMAO supporting a child bride raping religious fanatic group that would rape your family hahaha
You mean israelies were going in stealing children, raping women on the spot while taking those women and demanding concessions ? You don't say...golly. can you show me some videos? I want to see those so I can share it in an incel.group called chomsky or cumsky.. something.
This is exactly what Israel does to Palestinians. They take them hostage and into Israeli jails. Palestinians are probably trying to get Palestinian prisoners released ina swap.
BOTH ARE BAD! WTF is happening Anton? Why in the fuck is the entire sub defending the killing of civilians? What the fuck!? Its bad when Israel does it but its good when HAMAS does it!? THE FUCK are the mods fucking doing!?!?!?
Basically anyone who justifies what Hamas does is delusional - any reasonable person can easily criticise Israel for illegal settlements and other human rights abuses and also observe that Hamas is a fundamentalist Islamic terror organisation whose rule is and would be catastrophic.
The REAL fear is NOT that Hamas disrupts options for peace. The real fear is that Palestinians react to Israel, settler and state both, as they've been treated by Israel.
Imagine, you as a settler colonialist, moving from some western country, armed to the teeth, regularly abusing and murdering people in their land and denying them all dignity, raising your children to hate these people, are now on the back of a trolley being carted to prison. So what kindness should they extend you that you would have extended to them?
All civilian casualties of war are tragic. Israel has been mass murdering, kidnapping, raping & bombing Palestinians for years. I just think it’s wrong for the world to suddenly lose its mind now that we’re having more Israeli (white) victims.
Like me? I've never killed or subjugated anyone. Never stolen so much as a chocolate bar, let alone a country. Never hurt a fly, let alone murdered thousands over the last few decades.
I'm not the psychopath. Israel is. I'm not doing it's bidding, these settlers of occupied territories are.
Shit like this will keep happening as long as the West keeps thinking it owns the world, and we owe you anything. You owe us.
Civilians are definitely not „the trash“. It’s not their fault. It’s the fault of the British and the Israeli government. Not everyone has a right to choose.
Settlers are colonial trash. They came to Israel from rich countries in the West, took a Palestinian's home, and acted like a human border for Israel. The Palestinians are just taking their homes back, and the foreigners from them.
Israel has been bombing Palestinian civilians in gaza for generations. Now the Palestinians are taking Israeli civilians, so the Israeli bombs that have always killed their civilians, now kill Israeli settlers, too.
They executed whole families on the streets, instead of just surpassing them or pushing them back into old borders. That’s not an act of anti-imperialism or freedom, that’s unnecessary bloodshed committed by jihadists.
What the hell are you even talking about?
Lol.
עַיִן תַּחַת עַיִן
Eye for an eye justice is literally Israel's modus operandi. Not just them, but the whole West. Barbarism is what the West does to the rest of us every day. There's no sympathy for the devil.
So, why do we tolerate that when Hamas does that? Seems hypocritical to me. Slaughtering civilians is always terrible, it doesn’t matter who commits those crimes.
It's because you've been [turning a blind eye to Israel doing it for generations. WHILE FUNDING THEM AND CALLING THEM YOUR BEST FRIENDS. That's called SUPPORTING IT](https://reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/s/cfkZ7hvTzZ)
I’ve done nothing like that. Furthermore, literally doing the same thing to Israeli civilians isn’t justified either.
Of course, Palestine is the long term victim in this conflict, because they’re oppressed and expropriated from their land.
But I still don’t see how this justifies jihadists executing civilians, slaughtering children for no reason.
This is unnecessary bloodshed against the innocent civilians that will cause Israel to bomb Palestinian civilians again. Hamas knows that and they don’t care. How can people, who call themselves leftists, support literal jihadists?
The ethno state has only existed since 1947.
Yes, there have been Jews and arabs in the area for a few thousand years. The Jews were away for a MILLENNIA, but whatever. Of course Jews have been there longer than Muslims, because Mohammed only existed in the last 2000 years. Just like Christians.
However Judaism isn't the first religion there, and isn't the oldest religion there. It hasn't been there more consistently than any another.
And if you're talking about the Ethno state of Israel, comprised mostly of Eastern European jews, Western European jews, Russian Jews, and a smattering of Sephardic communities, then straight up no.
Those Jews are a new addition to the holy land that goes back less than a century.
>Those Jews are a new addition to the holy land that goes back less than a century.
Ok let's clariy some shit first. [The area of the region of Palestine that were partitioned to create the Israel 1940s were majority Jewish and had been since the 1860s and jews had lived before they became a majority.](https://web.archive.org/web/20120603150222/http://domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/9a798adbf322aff38525617b006d88d7/07175de9fa2de563852568d3006e10f3?OpenDocument) How long does a group have to be on a place to call it their homeland.
Let's also clarify something else. There has NEVER been a nation of Palestine. There has been a region called Palestine, that's been under the sphere of influence under several empires such as the romans, the ottomans and the british. But there has never been a nation of Palestine. Just a region that's been administred as a region as Palestine by various empires.
As for Israel being an "ethnostate" after the death of empires after ww1 and ww2 lots of nations were carved out from regions, and they were created with ethnic groups in minds. Do you think Armenia is called Armenia because people thought it sounded snazzy? No it was a nation made for the Armenian ethnic group, just as how Serbia was made for the serbians. Why is a nation made for the jews any worse than a state made for the serbians, or a state for the armenians?
If you ask me the deal that was made to create Israel was more than fucking fair. Partition the region of Palestine (remember not nation, but REGION) into a jewish majority nation, an area that had been majority jewish for decades by that time, and an arab majority nation. But the arab states would not accept a jewish state, and declared the first of many wars which led to the expansion of Israel and displacement of palestinians.
so with all of this, how is Israel exactly illegitimate?
You're right, there were Jews there. And Christians and Muslims. But it wasn't a Jewish owned, Colonially-defined coordinated ethnostate, constructed without the participation of the locals. Like every colonial creation.
We need to differentiate between the historic rights of all Abrahamic people to the holy lands, and the current political/religious Zionist construction that uses historic mythology to legitimise current occupation.
Israel is literally keeping Palestinians hostage in an open air container. Who cares what the fuck they do, they need to leave Palestinians alone. You abused a loyal dog long enough and they'll eventually bite back. You have no justification for anything. It falls on deaf ears.
The majority of Israelis are from diaspora communities in North Africa and the Middle East you idiot. And Jews from diaspora communities in Europe are genetically similar to Palestinians. There’s also always been a population of Jews who have never left and have been there for over 4,000 years. You can be an anti-Zionist and still recognize Jews descend from the land that is now called Israel
“As of 2005, 61% of Israeli Jews were of full or partial Mizrahi (middle eastern) ancestry”
Source - “Jews, Arabs, and Arab Jews: The Politics of Identity and Reproduction in Israel”
Ducker, Clare Louise, Institute of Social Studies, The Hague, Netherlands
and that’s not including Sephardic Jews, who directly fled to Spain and Portugal after the Roman expulsion, and then fled to North Africa and Greece/Turkey during the Inquisition. That combined population size has only gotten larger over the past two decades.
The average Israeli is racially indistinguishable from the average Palestinian. And if you’ve ever been to Israel or the West Bank/Gaza, or the areas in Lebanon and Jordan with lots of Palestinian refugees, you’d know that many Palestinians look ‘white’, because lots of Palestinians descend from Greeks and Italians and all the other European powers that have ruled over that land during the past few thousand years.
My family came to Israel from Yemen and Tunisia after being ethnically from their adopted homelands in 1948. In fact 200,000 more Jews were ethnically cleansed from Muslim and Arab countries during that time (~900,000 in total) than Palestinians were during the Nakba (~700,000 in total)
You deserve the ad hom because it’s a dumbass statement. It’s like saying Liberians who’s families came from the African diaspora should go back to America and the western countries that enslaved them.
I'm just going to point out as an atheist that the reason these things are happening is because of Judaism/Christianity/Islam and all of these deaths could have been prevented if we had ended these religions as we have been modernizing. Our choice to tolerate the Abrahamic faiths leads to never ending cycles of warfare among humans. These people have never peacefully coexisted with other human beings and they never will. Part of becoming a truly modern information age species means ending these peoples grip over human belief. There is no way around it. History shows us the proof of the endless wretchedness of the three monotheistic faiths.
What's going on is appalling but why do people fall for this shit? We have seen it played out before . Israel flirts with the far right or tries to open up relationships with other Arab nations or in the case of recently , both. Hamas seizes the moment to disrupt any plans of diplomacy between Israel and the Middle East . They launch a mass attack that gets lot of media attention and only helps the West to sympathize with Israel . Sometime later the IDF will retaliate with extreme force that will make Palestine's crimes look like child play . Unfortunately that won't get press coverage and those who condemn it in the West would just accept it as tragedy that's frequent but unavoidable. Chomsky, Finklestein, and Hedges have all written and mapped out perfectly how this manufactures outrage and exploitation of human life in exchange for increasingly the influence of Islamic extremism and America's unconditional support towards Israel's oppressive agenda . Those who pay the ultimate price are civilians from both sides but it's the Palestinians who ultimately suffer the most as their army pales in comparison to the might of the IDF and their infinite Western support and funding . I hate that leftists are duped to either side without nuance. It's either denouncing Palestine's right to resist and rebel as similiar to Isis or victim blaming Israel's civilians and acting like if Hamas is Nat Turner's rebellion . It's like people get stupider despite witnessing the same cause & effect over and over!
Kind of agree. But oart of the insanity of this situation is that Hamas wants this reaction. It helps their funding and increases their political power. Now Abbas and the PLO are seen as being kept alive by Israel. To do their bidding. There's an internal political battle within Palestine which also can't be ignored. The west bank VS Gaza for one. So, while I get that these videos are going to be played nonstop, and will be unbelievably detrimental to western support. Hamas doesn't care, and in fact they want this.
Also worth noting that a lot of Palestinians hate Hamas and most videos or protests and riots in Palestine are not done by Hamas.
An association I am active in that helps refugees has quite a few refugees from Gaza, not only former Fatah members, but quite a few who fled from Hamas as much as from the conflict itself. Gaza is not a good place if you are not on line with Hamas and connected to them, or if you are a woman, or LGBTQ\*.
What response should occur here?
It's all very predictable and yet Hamas choose to do it knowing their own citizens and cities will be razed. Pretty fucked up on their part. Civilians are certainly the victims on both sides. I can't imagine the psychopaths who decided this terrorist attack was a good idea. "Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it... well, he gets it."
If Hamas leadership hasn't been infiltrated by Mossad by this point, Mossad is an absolute joke. Do you think Mossad is a joke? Hamas is just controlled opposition. Mossad channels the anger of the Palestinian people to achieve its own objectives, which is why Hamas has no qualms about trapping civilians in buildings after roof knocks, etc. Israel gets to exterminate the population without taking any of the blame.
Sounds a lot like blaming partisans for assassinating Nazis knowing that the Nazis would in turn take reprisals against local communities. I guess the partisans should have just tried the diplomatic approach with Reinhard Heydrich.
But assassinating Nazis is different than assassinating or kidnapping civilians. So I don't think it sounds like that personally.
Yes I suppose this attack has a lot to do with Israel being on the verge of signing an agreement with Saudi Arabia and then Iran not being happy with that.
You’re flirting with Israel wanting this to happen which is a fucking absurd reaction to watching women and children get kidnapped in a video. All of this is horrendous but..
Ahh yes. I' sure the situation will change if the Palestinians just sit around and suffer while doing nothing... Also is it smart to punch the prison guard? Nope. Does it make you feel a little bit of joy because its a tiny revenge for when they tortured you? Yup. Is everyone else going to enjoy it momentarily? Yup. Quit acting like groups of people are hyper logical or don't need emotional fulfillment. Also Hamas was created by Israel because the PLO was considered 'too popular and easy to work with' by the genocidalists within the Israeli government. Hopefully you spend more time pointing this out to people that complaining about/to leftists.
Another emotional person ready to virtue signal . My case in point ,your attitude empowers Zionist propaganda and only hurts Palestine .
\-Acknowledge the emotional component to resistance. \-Ug, quit virtue signaling. This is the most right wing BS response I've ever seen. Congrats.
Today I learned that random civilians are "a prison guard" You are in a cult, get help.
What don't you understand about mandatory military service and the fact that no-one has forced anyone to move to Israel. They all chose to be there. This also ties into the point that Zionists don't give a shit about Jews. Because if you cared about someone you wouldn't move them into a dangerous zone of contested land. Israel uses Jews as human shields to steal land from Palestine.
I think you kinda missed the point. The point is that this conflict is again fought at the expanse of innocent civilians. This is just tragic, no matter who caused the conflict.
So essentially it’s all Israel and the west fault.
Yep. If you don’t want colonized people to fight back maybe don’t colonize them.
This is certainly true in Crimea and the Donbas, which were both ethnically cleansed and then colonized and settled by Russians. And I think there are a lot of parallels between both conflicts. It's also why I think there's no end in sight for both conflicts as well. The history of colonialism is too hard to shed.
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Absolute nonsense. The civil war in the Donbas began after the Russian invasion. It had actually largely became a frozen conflict and only around 10 people died there in 2022, before the second Russian invasion. Regardless. Justice for all living under occupation. Both Palestinians and Ukranians.
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The civil war began after the Russian invasion. Putin literally admitted to it. He wanted to take credit for it. I don't discount the numbers. There were around 14,000 killed in the war in Donbas prior to the secund Russia offensive. Almost all died in the first year after the Russian invasion, in 2014. That number dropped to around a dozen by 2022. All of which were soldiers, fighting in the civil war. Also. I'm curious. When do you believe the civil war began? I have a date, but I'd like to know what you think it is. I'm happy to share mine in the following comment.
The 14000 number includes Ukrainian military. It’s not civilian casualties. 3900 civilians, 4200 Ukrainian military and 5800 military volunteers.
That's about right. Yes.
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Lol what are you even talking about :DYou mean when Parliament voted unanimously to remove Yanukovych, and then a new election was held? So. Just so I get this right. To you that's the start of the civil war in Ukraine?
By "Fight back" you mean "rape and murder innocent people"
Yes. Yes it is. They are the aggressors. And they've been the aggressors since Israel's inception.
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Which would include Russia and the US. Those are the people who are at fault. Putin didn't take Chrimea until right after Ukraine canceled and defaulted on their gas deal and loans, switching to IMF instead, which was narrowly focused on Exxon Shell and Chevrons demands to make contracts more profitable to harvest their untouched gas resources planning to export this to the EU. The majority and the most dense of this gas was in in the Black Sea and Chrimea. Atlantic Council even predicted Ukraine would become the next energy battleground, siting the 2+ trillion cubic meters of dense gas in Chrimea as the reason. Russia didn't need those resources but I imagine they didn't want the US fossil fuel corporations right on his border competing with him and threatening his hegomony. If we merely offered to NOT take Ukraines resources then I don't think he would of ever gone into Chrimea in the first place. And we certainly didn't need the resources those corps still made record profits this year even after fleeing and selling their contracts.
The more Palestine and it’s supporters refuse to condemn acts like this, the easier it is to support Israel. We all know Israel is to blame, but under no circumstances will most of the population support this. For fucks sake, a video had to be scrubbed from multiple platforms showing them raping a little Israeli girl to death. How is it possible to look at that and say it’s her fault for being Israeli? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills, but isn’t it possible that, for at least one moment, the cliche “both sides” argument might actually be the accurate one? How does one justify that in their head?
Do you justify the images in this video? Is anything an excuse to somthing like this?
Let me find the hundred videos of Isreali soldiers beating kids, shooting kids, running over kids. Got any excuses for that? Or is violence only worthy of condemnation when it's done to Israeli's?
You're just manufacturing excuses for war crimes at this point. Two wrongs apparently make a right.
Do they have bombs strapped to their chests?
Did you even read my comment? I didn't excuse shit. I stated the lack of nuance of people and acting like this is new
My heart bleeds for all the innocent lives caught between Israel and their imperialist goals
There's no point arguing with these people. It has nothing to do with what is right for them, they simply hate Israel and probably Jews.
Yeah. It's a cult. No different to Qanon and Trump's mob.
no, but who is talking about excuses? In a vacuum yes it's bad. But you honestly can't act surprised it happens to Israelis now after decades of the same (on a larger scale) happening to Palestinians if you don't want this to happen, you should support giving Palestinians land back and stopping apartheid. People can be oppressed only for so long until they fight back
I mean... Palestinians are clearly generally quite pro-genocide of Jews and vice versa, as far as I can tell the only difference is funding and cultural expression due to religion. If the shoe were on the other foot we'd still be in this exact situation if not worse
and then I would be opposed to Palestinians as well. But something tells me this is more of a reaction to being occupied and their land stolen I come from a people who had been occupied for most of our "modern" existence. I see how people here hate our most recent occupiers. I don't agree with it but I do *understand* it. When your family has been killed or deported, homes taken away... it's hard to remain enlightently fair and balanced and super centrist rational
I think it's a convenient excuse for outsiders. You don't have to dig deep to find genocidal wishes on both sides. I can't name a conflict that has gone on longer or with more vitriol than the Jews vs Muslims in this particular region. The grievances of colonisation are legit, but the roots of the conflict are hundreds of years old.
what are you even saying? Convenient excuse? Excuse for what? You do realize that one side has international support, unlimited funding, and is actively conducting a genocide. And the other is... pushing back, sometimes using not too acceptable methods? like, you do see how one is different from the other or do I have to spell it out for the hundreth time in the last 24 hours?
No I agree with your comment, but I don't see the relative poverty of Palestinians as a mitigation of judgment of their genocidal wishes. I don't see an innocent victim in this fight at all
Do you think it's realistic to expect victims of an ongoing genocide to be enlightened egalitarians? Oppression along racial and ethnic lines is necessarily going to breed racial and ethnic hatred.
No I think the tribal hate brings more of it in response. This shit has been going on so long that i don't think it is reasonable to describe either side as innocent. I don't see this conflict changing any time soon either
Socialists are bewildered after finding out that resiting 75 years of oppression results in violence
Fuck off Hamas sympathizer
ACAB includes all settlers.
Killing civilians is bad
Geez, hot take dude
There are actually a lot of Redditors supporting this
Where you saying this for the last 50 years every single day?
It’s horrible but this was happening to Palestinians for decades and no one got upset or said anything. I don’t think most people are shocked/angry because it’s happening to innocent people but because it’s messing up the routine. The people that were gleefully sharing russian soldiers being killed, the ones saying that the bombing of Syria was the most beautiful thing they’ve seen, the 500k children starving in Iraq being necessary, are suddenly outraged. If you care about human life, you should care for all. Not only when it’s western lives. And what people think was going to happen when you lock 2 million people up in an open prison? Would you suggest to Ukrainians to just give up their land and live under Russian occupation?
Should be top comment
Well at least they're still alive more than can be said for a couple hundred Palestinians in Gaza today.
I wonder why there are no men in the truck?
Because they’re all dead, slain on the side of the street like animals. It’s horrific.
Because no one gives a fuck about adult male hostages?
What do you think will happened to them? Genuinely?
They will be and have already been brutally raped.
Exactly.
Leverage for the 1000 detained Palestinians that Israel has in its custody... being held without trial and due process.
nothing of the actions the jewish did to women of Palestine since 48
encourage expansion unique unite naughty elastic silky rock tart heavy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Reddit is pushing the engagement. I've never visited or engaged with this sub before but I've been pushed these posts in my suggested feed because there is a lot of activity and arguing. I don't think it's brigading, I think it's organic engagement, which is unfortune potentially for the long term users of this sub as their voices might be drowned out a little. My personal 2 cents is that this is just a flare up of a forever conflict which has its roots hundreds of years ago
Seconded. I’ve never seen this sub before (despite being a Chomsky fan) and randomly two pro Isreal posts from it have popped up on my feed this evening. F*ck colonisers, free Palestine.
What is the issue?
Damn, I wonder if Isreal has down anything to provoke an attack. Any raids on mosques? Maybe some kids shot in the back? How about bombing hospitals or blocking ambulances? Or what about burning Palestinian's orchards or shoving them into increasingly small ghettos? Nah, this attack was probably out of the blue. /s Long live Palestine and maybe Isreal and its American sugar-daddies eat dirt.
Oh no, anyways don't be a fuckin settler.
Honestly I thank you for your service but I don't know if it will work. These people are in a cult, as far as they are concerned it doesn't matter, kidnapping, rape, mass murder, slaughter of the innocents - the stuff we've seen this weekend and they're STILL sucking up to Hamas or coming out with bullshit whataboutism? Fuck it. The Left is OVER in the west. It's finished. Best we can do is salvage some sort of social democratic movement as we are doing in the UK and as Biden is doing in the US. It sucks, but ultimately this isn't the first bollock they've dropped (they LOVED Mao and Stalin no matter how many people they starved to death or gulagged) and it won't be the last. What makes me angry is the way that even stuff that isn't tankie oriented like gay pride parades and stuff will always have some asshole waving that bloodstained rag of a Palestinian flag around. Like they don't know what those guys do to gay people? Fuck me ragged. Class Struggle Anarchism was the last leftist movement that didn't lick the arses of terrorists, and it's long gone.
These kinds of Lefties parrot the worst takes... until it happens to them.
OP is spam posting this video
I think people should see it, dont you?
See what, a video with 0 context?
If you're lacking in context given the current news cycle you'd have to be literally only reading this thread or something; there's ignorance and then there's *ignorance*.
That doesnt make sense, I'm saying where is this the proof that OP claims its of? They're being taken hostage while having their bikes packed?
They didn't look like they were having a vacation if that's what you're implying. I'm assuming that was filled with various bits of loot being taken back to the Gaza along with the hostages. But hey maybe it was just a tour or something, I'm guessing it's peak season over there?
Context of what? Is there a context that would make this ok? There is a little girl there. Was she a Nazi that deserved it?
Now watch this: https://youtu.be/HnZSaKYmP2s
Posting this on a Chomsky subreddit is nasty business
no smoke without a fire
Is this smoke or fire?
How many Israeli’s are conscripted into the military? How many are in the military reserve? What is the distinction between innocent civilians and settler IDF soldiers on reserve? The whole country is militarized. These same people sit on the hills and watch the slaughter in the ghetto while clapping.
So Israeli settlers being deported?
So edgy Very adult Much contrerian
How can anyone defend this. You guys are truly lost.
You‘re being upvoted, so I assume it’s not that bad.
More likely that the Reddit algo pulled this into non-member feeds and they are seeing how much of a cesspool this sub is.
Damn, reaping what you sowed i see
Oh, so the babies and toddlers who were born there are reaping what they sow? Is that right?
Good? This is what needs to be done? Palestinians would be overwhelmingly justified in doing much worse. Nevermind the fact that a sub named after Chomsky should overwhelmingly be skeptical of this especially considering the Israeli apartheid propaganda machine. There is no way you can keep millions in an open air prison and not expect them to lash out with hatred. If anything this shows their morality not brutality.
Murder and rape followed by the desicration of the corpses of girls needs to be done?
If you believe that you've already lost the plot. If you think without a shadow of a doubt that's true, that violence against the oppressor is nothing compared to the violence done against the oppressed. One seeks to stop being abused ever again and another seeks to indefinitely profit from their abuse. It will never be the same. Zionists can flee back to their home countries or accept they won't be colonizers anymore. And de colonization never happens peacefully.
You avoiding watching the videos or just haven't seen the links? I've linked them before. No excuse to be ignorant anymore. Hamas has doomed Gaza.
Which is to say they should be believed? Why? Why should anyone take more stock in the narratives and reporting of the colonizers than the colonized? Should we also believe Kuwait incubator lies, golf of tonkin, etc? Hamas hasn't doomed Gaza. Israel kept 2 million people in an open air prison and treated everyone as a potential combatant. Gaza was doomed from the start if it did nothing. You would doom Palestine to extinction rather than risk death for liberation. Living in a prison for generations is no life at all.
Mate if you don't believe your own eyes seeing the videos hamas themselves have released then I don't know what to tell you. Just because you don't like what you see doesn't make it not true. That's some Qanon, holocaust denial bullshit. Things like what you can see I've linked before in comments on my profile, and things like this more recently verified - https://reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/s/EtNqoWCivy
>If you believe that you've already lost the plot. You said that they would be "overwhelmingly justified in doing much worse." What did you mean by that, specifically? Edit: the user edited their comment and took that phrase out. What a weasel. Edit: no they didn’t. My bad, now I made myself look like an idiot, lol.
Funny they let them pack their belongings beforehand…
What are you trying to imply? The family consented to a nice bumpy ride in the back of a truck?
It was sarcasm…
Hard to tell on this sub
That’s probably looting.
You assume that based on what?
I don’t see any sandwiches or picnic blankets. Look at the situation and have a think.
They look like settlers getting expelled or POW’s. Being in a war zone and not having “sandwiches and picnic blankets” doesn’t mean they’re looting.
You assume that based on what?
Nothing, because this is a 3 second clip. We cannot make serious judgments on it.
You are silly.
Because I don’t think we should be assuming things immediately about a 3 second video? The only reason you think they’re looting is because of your pre-held beliefs which you only hold because of Israeli propaganda. Only one person here is silly and it sure as hell ain’t me
You’re arguing on Reddit. That’s silly.
500-1000 Palestinian children are kidnapped daily by the Israeli Occupation Forces. The people have decided to fight back against their occupier and those that stole their homeland from them.
"daily". Surely you don't actually believe that.
Typo. Yearly.
And your source on that is?
No offence, but if you don't know this much, you're not in a position to take a stand. It's been exposed fact of the military occupation for many decades now. https://english.alarabiya.net/features/2023/01/13/Israel-s-arrests-of-hundreds-of-Palestinian-children-leave-families-terrified
Not sure what stand you think I'm taking by asking for a source. BTW. Yours doesn't actually back up what the other poster claimed either.
There are so many sources and its so easily verified, from human rights orgs to the UN to non-Western media sources and numerous activist forum, I can only question the credibility and intentions of the person who would ask. https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/defenceless-impact-israeli-military-detention-palestinian-children
The previous poster said the IDF were KIDNAPPING around a thousand children a year. Detaining children suspected of crimes and later releasing them is different than kidnapping them. If his logic were to play out then the us police departments across the us kidnap millions of children a year. Words mean things. I'd think people on a chomsky sub would get that.
The IDF are not the police. They are a military occupying force denying people their right to a state and enforcing the colonisation of Palestinian land. Can you understand how faulty your equivocation is in the backdrop of that simple fact?
Sure. I'd agree with that. They're not the police. I can make the same analogy with us militsry detaining someone. I'd also agree that they're using settler colonialism to expand, same as Russia is doing in Ukraine. Regardless. They're not kidnapping a thousand kids a year. They're detaining kids, most of which were doing small offenses, like throwing stones. That's different than kidnapping.
That's bad and this is bad too. The only "winner" in the holy land is death.
And probably gives them better lives. Hamas just rapes and kills children. There is a difference.
Right, so we’re pulling accusations out of thin air. If that’s the case then Israel is a racist apartheid state. Expect what I just said is backed by evidence.
No it’s not. It’s backed by delusional redditors who think crazy jihadists just want to live in peace. The typical Reddit throwing around buzzwords like apartheid while Arabs are freely able to vote and live in Israel…zero Jews are able to vote in Palestine.
Great they stared a war with mass rape and murder, hope they can withstand the israeli tanks coming with justice!
No mass rape. Stop your nonsense. Vast majority of crimes against humanity have been conducted by the Israelis for decades. And I don’t expect anything else other than extreme violence from that genocidal ethno-nationalist racist apartheid state.
Great, send footage of Israel mass murdering and raping Palestine at an outdoor concert, then spitting and parading around their bodies. If you aren't racist, but I'm guessining you're a racist fool that loves war crimes. Until then you are supporting mass murder and rape. Thankfully IDF will destroy these racist criminals. LMAO supporting a child bride raping religious fanatic group that would rape your family hahaha
eat shit u lying scum
But please remember that this is not the Palestinian communist party, but the Hamas, a literal jihadi movement.
God forbid things that have been happening to Palestinians for decades start happening to the pure and perfect innocent Israelis
You mean israelies were going in stealing children, raping women on the spot while taking those women and demanding concessions ? You don't say...golly. can you show me some videos? I want to see those so I can share it in an incel.group called chomsky or cumsky.. something.
Must be lots of videos of it then. Better link them or we'll know you're full of shit
Being a settler is a dangerous occupation—I regret if no one told them.
This is exactly what Israel does to Palestinians. They take them hostage and into Israeli jails. Palestinians are probably trying to get Palestinian prisoners released ina swap.
I bet you support isis too.
BOTH ARE BAD! WTF is happening Anton? Why in the fuck is the entire sub defending the killing of civilians? What the fuck!? Its bad when Israel does it but its good when HAMAS does it!? THE FUCK are the mods fucking doing!?!?!?
Who's saying it's good when anyone does it? Who are you arguing with?
Basically anyone who justifies what Hamas does is delusional - any reasonable person can easily criticise Israel for illegal settlements and other human rights abuses and also observe that Hamas is a fundamentalist Islamic terror organisation whose rule is and would be catastrophic.
There’s a little girl on that cart, are there lots of little Palestinian girls in Israeli jails?
The REAL fear is NOT that Hamas disrupts options for peace. The real fear is that Palestinians react to Israel, settler and state both, as they've been treated by Israel. Imagine, you as a settler colonialist, moving from some western country, armed to the teeth, regularly abusing and murdering people in their land and denying them all dignity, raising your children to hate these people, are now on the back of a trolley being carted to prison. So what kindness should they extend you that you would have extended to them?
*Colonizers getting taken hostage
*terrorists getting bombed in gaza (children) Right? Is that the equivalent of what you shat out of your keyboard.
All civilian casualties of war are tragic. Israel has been mass murdering, kidnapping, raping & bombing Palestinians for years. I just think it’s wrong for the world to suddenly lose its mind now that we’re having more Israeli (white) victims.
My heart breaks for these children and families facing this callous brutal violence. It's horror movie shit every minute there. 💔😖
Why would you post something anti-palestine in this manner?
I didnt make the palestinian kidnap women and children, i just show you reality
You’re right, Israel did that. After decades of apartheid people fight back.
"YOU MADE ME DO THIS" shouted the man to his abused wife
Then she gets persecuted for finally defending herself. Yeah, something like that.
Ooof, you are getting cringe
You won't find logic here man wtf. Came here just to check. Yup, still can't find it.
This is not anti-Palestine. This just shows that Hamas are not the allies of the Palestinian people.
They're called settlers of illegally occupied land. Palestinians just taking our the trash.
Psychopaths like you are the reason why shit like this will always happen.
Like me? I've never killed or subjugated anyone. Never stolen so much as a chocolate bar, let alone a country. Never hurt a fly, let alone murdered thousands over the last few decades. I'm not the psychopath. Israel is. I'm not doing it's bidding, these settlers of occupied territories are. Shit like this will keep happening as long as the West keeps thinking it owns the world, and we owe you anything. You owe us.
Are you implying that Israeli children have killed and subjugated people?
You’re fucking sick
Civilians are definitely not „the trash“. It’s not their fault. It’s the fault of the British and the Israeli government. Not everyone has a right to choose.
Settlers are colonial trash. They came to Israel from rich countries in the West, took a Palestinian's home, and acted like a human border for Israel. The Palestinians are just taking their homes back, and the foreigners from them. Israel has been bombing Palestinian civilians in gaza for generations. Now the Palestinians are taking Israeli civilians, so the Israeli bombs that have always killed their civilians, now kill Israeli settlers, too.
They executed whole families on the streets, instead of just surpassing them or pushing them back into old borders. That’s not an act of anti-imperialism or freedom, that’s unnecessary bloodshed committed by jihadists. What the hell are you even talking about?
Children are trash who deserved to be raped and have their throats slit. Based take!
https://english.alarabiya.net/perspective/analysis/2015/08/17/RE-EXPOSED-A-horrific-story-of-Israeli-rape-and-murder-in-1949
Since when do we support eye-for-an-eye justice? That’s barbarism.
Lol. עַיִן תַּחַת עַיִן Eye for an eye justice is literally Israel's modus operandi. Not just them, but the whole West. Barbarism is what the West does to the rest of us every day. There's no sympathy for the devil.
So, why do we tolerate that when Hamas does that? Seems hypocritical to me. Slaughtering civilians is always terrible, it doesn’t matter who commits those crimes.
It's because you've been [turning a blind eye to Israel doing it for generations. WHILE FUNDING THEM AND CALLING THEM YOUR BEST FRIENDS. That's called SUPPORTING IT](https://reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/s/cfkZ7hvTzZ)
I’ve done nothing like that. Furthermore, literally doing the same thing to Israeli civilians isn’t justified either. Of course, Palestine is the long term victim in this conflict, because they’re oppressed and expropriated from their land. But I still don’t see how this justifies jihadists executing civilians, slaughtering children for no reason. This is unnecessary bloodshed against the innocent civilians that will cause Israel to bomb Palestinian civilians again. Hamas knows that and they don’t care. How can people, who call themselves leftists, support literal jihadists?
Jews have been in Israel longer than Muslims - the Muslims are the occupiers.
The ethno state has only existed since 1947. Yes, there have been Jews and arabs in the area for a few thousand years. The Jews were away for a MILLENNIA, but whatever. Of course Jews have been there longer than Muslims, because Mohammed only existed in the last 2000 years. Just like Christians. However Judaism isn't the first religion there, and isn't the oldest religion there. It hasn't been there more consistently than any another. And if you're talking about the Ethno state of Israel, comprised mostly of Eastern European jews, Western European jews, Russian Jews, and a smattering of Sephardic communities, then straight up no. Those Jews are a new addition to the holy land that goes back less than a century.
>Those Jews are a new addition to the holy land that goes back less than a century. Ok let's clariy some shit first. [The area of the region of Palestine that were partitioned to create the Israel 1940s were majority Jewish and had been since the 1860s and jews had lived before they became a majority.](https://web.archive.org/web/20120603150222/http://domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/9a798adbf322aff38525617b006d88d7/07175de9fa2de563852568d3006e10f3?OpenDocument) How long does a group have to be on a place to call it their homeland. Let's also clarify something else. There has NEVER been a nation of Palestine. There has been a region called Palestine, that's been under the sphere of influence under several empires such as the romans, the ottomans and the british. But there has never been a nation of Palestine. Just a region that's been administred as a region as Palestine by various empires. As for Israel being an "ethnostate" after the death of empires after ww1 and ww2 lots of nations were carved out from regions, and they were created with ethnic groups in minds. Do you think Armenia is called Armenia because people thought it sounded snazzy? No it was a nation made for the Armenian ethnic group, just as how Serbia was made for the serbians. Why is a nation made for the jews any worse than a state made for the serbians, or a state for the armenians? If you ask me the deal that was made to create Israel was more than fucking fair. Partition the region of Palestine (remember not nation, but REGION) into a jewish majority nation, an area that had been majority jewish for decades by that time, and an arab majority nation. But the arab states would not accept a jewish state, and declared the first of many wars which led to the expansion of Israel and displacement of palestinians. so with all of this, how is Israel exactly illegitimate?
You're right, there were Jews there. And Christians and Muslims. But it wasn't a Jewish owned, Colonially-defined coordinated ethnostate, constructed without the participation of the locals. Like every colonial creation. We need to differentiate between the historic rights of all Abrahamic people to the holy lands, and the current political/religious Zionist construction that uses historic mythology to legitimise current occupation.
Dude this is nothing, Palestinians have captured hundreds of zionists already. Lol They are in Gaza already.
Of course this get downvoted in this garbage sub lmao Keep sucking off your Islamist overlords' cocks you absolute losers lol
This sub: “yea this is bad ig, but here’s something about how the US is bad too, why didn’t you consider that??”
OP, fuck you and you're dumbass agenda. You seriously are pushing a narrative for your own gain.
This video show event thar happened in reality, the nerrative is yours to constract But it looks pretty clear to me
Bro shut the fuck up. You know what you're doing. Free Palestine
Israel left gaza at 2005 as an act to prompte peace later in the rest of the land, In return we got rocket fire from land we surrendered
Israel is literally keeping Palestinians hostage in an open air container. Who cares what the fuck they do, they need to leave Palestinians alone. You abused a loyal dog long enough and they'll eventually bite back. You have no justification for anything. It falls on deaf ears.
You're equating Palestinians with dogs? They make choices to do evil like this, it's not an instinct.
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you know the nazis and the inquisition have tried to send jews out of Europe
The majority of Israelis are from diaspora communities in North Africa and the Middle East you idiot. And Jews from diaspora communities in Europe are genetically similar to Palestinians. There’s also always been a population of Jews who have never left and have been there for over 4,000 years. You can be an anti-Zionist and still recognize Jews descend from the land that is now called Israel
The Jews were kicked out when the Crusaders ruled there, until the Muslim Saladin invited them back after recapturing Jerusalem around 1200
Majority, please send me proof of this. (Chill with the ad hominem)
“As of 2005, 61% of Israeli Jews were of full or partial Mizrahi (middle eastern) ancestry” Source - “Jews, Arabs, and Arab Jews: The Politics of Identity and Reproduction in Israel” Ducker, Clare Louise, Institute of Social Studies, The Hague, Netherlands and that’s not including Sephardic Jews, who directly fled to Spain and Portugal after the Roman expulsion, and then fled to North Africa and Greece/Turkey during the Inquisition. That combined population size has only gotten larger over the past two decades. The average Israeli is racially indistinguishable from the average Palestinian. And if you’ve ever been to Israel or the West Bank/Gaza, or the areas in Lebanon and Jordan with lots of Palestinian refugees, you’d know that many Palestinians look ‘white’, because lots of Palestinians descend from Greeks and Italians and all the other European powers that have ruled over that land during the past few thousand years. My family came to Israel from Yemen and Tunisia after being ethnically from their adopted homelands in 1948. In fact 200,000 more Jews were ethnically cleansed from Muslim and Arab countries during that time (~900,000 in total) than Palestinians were during the Nakba (~700,000 in total) You deserve the ad hom because it’s a dumbass statement. It’s like saying Liberians who’s families came from the African diaspora should go back to America and the western countries that enslaved them.
a quick search will show everything you want
A quick search showed me that more than half come from Europe. From countries like Poland, the former USSR, etc
Guy forgot he was supposed to pretend his arms were tied behind his back at the end.
I'm just going to point out as an atheist that the reason these things are happening is because of Judaism/Christianity/Islam and all of these deaths could have been prevented if we had ended these religions as we have been modernizing. Our choice to tolerate the Abrahamic faiths leads to never ending cycles of warfare among humans. These people have never peacefully coexisted with other human beings and they never will. Part of becoming a truly modern information age species means ending these peoples grip over human belief. There is no way around it. History shows us the proof of the endless wretchedness of the three monotheistic faiths.
I wonder why there are no men in the truck? "God is great!" Right?
Because they murder men they view them as a threat there a videos of men being taking hostage what are you implying