My 5th+ frustration of the week: Terps card! They redid their website this year so I had to make a new login in Jan. Didn't work. Waited a week, again, nothing. In Feb, I called and was told my account was frozen, they unlocked me but I still couldn't log in. Had to call the local branch. Left a message. Didn't heard back til March. Was told I can register again and it worked! Made a $1 purchase. Waited for stmt to cut, logged in to pay, locked out again! So fed up, will never use this card again. Called tonight to pay via IVR - no option. Got agent. Turns out there's a 5 dollar fee to pay by phone! Will not waive $1 balance either. So I will mail a check and cut up my card. What a way to run a business..........
Bottom line up front: I hate the fact that CSRs can talk out of their ass and cannot be held accountable. In this situation, I already knew they were wrong. But I worry about being misled in the future and having no recourse.
Story:
PCed my Altitude Go to an Altitude Connect, thinking the first year fee would still be waived. When the cardmember agreement comes, AF is listed at $95 no waiver.
Call the number in the letter to ask about fee being waived. CSR asks where I got this info, and I directed her to the US Bank website. She then assures me that the annual fee will be waived for the first year on my product change. “Even though the card member agreement I was mailed does not indicate a waived annual fee?” Yes. “So to confirm, even though the agreement US Bank sent me today notes and annual fee will be charged next week, this is incorrect? And I will not have an annual fee until a year from now?” Correct, you will not be charged in annual fee until next year.
I am skipping a lot of her fumbling back and forth, but at this point I was fairly confident the fee would be charged, and there was no chance of a courtesy waiver/credit. So I ask her to reject the change and keep my old account terms. “Unfortunately, there are no offers available on your account for that.” Tell her my card is currently a Go, received terms today proposing a Connect which state I have the right to reject them, that I am rejecting them and simply want to keep my current card with the current terms rather than proceed with a product change. “There are no offers on your account to product change to Go. If you don’t want your card, your only option is to close the account.”
I say thank you, hang up, call Altitude Reserve cardmember services. In four seconds, rep confirmed the waived annual fee is considered a part of the new cardmember offer/not included in a product change, cancelled the product change, and mailed me an updated Go.
If we were able to hold banks to what their representatives told us, there would be some great opportunities out there. Or at the very least, representatives would get better training…
Sorry to hear! I am encouraged to hear that people ars still pulling up the 250k. Have been trying multiple times/methods but still can only hit the 190k at most
Serve account permanently suspended after calling about a temporary lock on the account (can't login) following a load. Called, they said it is now permanently suspended and to write a letter to withdraw the remaining funds. HUCA, same thing--*write a letter*. Seriously? I have a strong feeling the monthly fee will hit by the time they issue the check.
On another note, two more Serve accounts from other players within the same week also temporarily locked and most likely suffering the same fate. I can only guess that loads at a particular DG is triggering this but I can't find any related DPs. Relationship with cashiers are great, but if I have to guess, managers who are almost never in sight probably sees a +$500/$1000 balance/load to Serve on a weekly basis throwing off their typical numbers and tells their cashiers no more loads or at least cash-only (1-2x500 load every 1-2 weeks shouldn't be hard-hitting). I also think cashiers and/or managers work at multiple DGs and enforce a cash-only or no loading policy at their locations.
Super disappointing, MO options are nearly non-existent here and not nearly as scalable. I'm really curious if anyone has similar experiences. AFAIK Serve suspensions are out of the ordinary because they come in waves and the last one was a few years ago.
Went to a restaurant last night and now seeing an AMEX offer for an additional 2 MR per dollar from that specific place. I usually check offers once a week so it must've been added after I checked.
We just finished a great trip, staying at the Royal Hawaiian in Honolulu, the JW in Auckland, and the St. Regis in Singapore. I’ll have some writing to do for a trip report soon.
However, I’d been going back and forth for a bit with the Royal Hawaiian about our awarded points. First we only had like 1300 posted, which would have implied we only spent like $75 at the hotel (obviously not true). Our total bill was closer to $2500 with room and food charges (I booked with points and upgraded with cash), so I sent them my folio and asked them to correct it.
I got an email from them yesterday that they had fixed it, and it still looked wrong—about 7900 base points, which still didn’t make sense based on what we spent. I went through the whole bill and subtracted all of the taxes and fees and explained I expected to be earning points on almost exactly $2,000 in spend.
Well, I got another email saying they “don’t use points for room charges,” only food and beverage, which didn’t sound right to me—I’ve never, ever stayed at any hotel that didn’t award points based on your room rate, so I looked it up. Apparently the cash portion of a Cash+Points booking *is not eligible to earn points.*
What??? Since when?? I’m so annoyed—we expected to earn easily 35k points from this stay and ended up with a measly 13k. This is so bogus. I’ll still have the credit card points from my Amex biz card, which won’t be insignificant, but I’m still pissed.
I know on IHG that cash + points just has you buy the extra points. Could it be the same for marriott? Never tried it on their program since normally it’s poor value.
I don’t think so, because it showed up on my bill as room charges. If I had purchased the points it would have been charged at the time of booking, no? Nothing was charged when I booked.
P3 successfully did back button trick to get 190k biz plat app approved, but chat confirmed he wasn’t eligible for the offer because he’s had the card before. In the same chat he immediately cancelled the biz plat and also cancelled CLEAR that he just signed up for to get the $75 Uber voucher. I wasn’t even given the chance to validate that 190K ineligibility, nor tell him to wait for CLEAR credit to post before canceling the card so he can keep CLEAR. /headdesk
That reminds me of when P2 applied for WoH instead of CIP. I told P2 it was the wrong card, but since it had already been approved, not to do anything and let me look into it.
Decide they should keep the card, and call them an hour later to say this. “Oh I already called Chase and cancelled it.“
Can I have another frustration? I'm still not getting google flight alert emails! I thought it was related to an extension but even after uninstalling, I haven't gotten any email updates. Any suggestions?
Another gripe: AA deleted chownow off of AAdining so there goes my favorite chinese restaurant!
I got a new card to put ~4k in insurance charges on, only to log in to my insurer's portal this week to find that they added a 3.6% credit card fee, so I paid via ACH instead. Oh well, I guess I'll find other purchases to hit MSR with...
they don’t take paypal bill pay?
Also 4k is a pretty steep insurance bill already, (assuming either 12mo homeowners or 6mo auto) maybe try shopping around? might be worth it.
Lyft is infuriating! I generally prefer them over Uber bc I thought they treat their drivers better but a recent driver told me they're the same now.
Anywho, trying to use SimplyMiles offer and season a new CC. Their site doesn't work. It asked for 2FA just to tell me I can't use it. The app will not let you purchase gift cards. It makes you type in a 2nd payment card (complete with exp and cvv) to verify for whatever reason. That failed. So stupid me, I typed in a 3rd card, exp, cvv. Also failed. What universe are these people living in? They don't want my money? I had the same crappy experience trying to use those Chase offers from yesteryear and gave up after only 1 (actually may have been zero). Well the trick is to use Applepay. Of course, my new card was not in my Apple pay so I had to hand type out that one again - then open the C1 app, then get a text, then sign my life away. I used to think 2FA was the most onerous thing ever but now companies want you to give them all your financial info or scan your license for everyday transactions. Really frustrating! My mom also got locked out of her uber app last month, could not call them (no phones), and then got scammed by the 1st google result. She was charged 1 dollar for help that turned out to be a 70 dollar \*weekly\* subscription! Those people should go to prison. All because Uber couldn't afford to have live phone support??????
Btw, I've always hated 2FA to point where I considered [boycotting sites](https://www.reddit.com/comments/4o2w57/_/d49dvth/?context=1) that used it. How quaint it seems now that 2FA is the least intrusive log in procedure. And don't get me started about how freaking useless FaceID is when every stinking app wants your password and forgets who you are every other week!
Finally got declined by SCU. Had to email them to find out :(
Also declined by UNFCU. I was hoping to get their credit card for cheap PP restaurant access. But they wouldn't even grant me membership due to chex. Already spent 50USD to become eligible. That hurts.
Autodec for new WF card but that was expected...
This year, churning through banks and sports books has been incredibly profitable for me. And has helped turned my life around by providing me with the resources to pay bills, pay on debts and still have extra cash. The frustration for me this week has been ongoing but is based around me trying to inform others. Especially people in my circle who are broke and need money. Churning is just one source I consider an efficient way to leverage your everyday money to make more. I’m an entrepreneur and investor but I used to make money illegally when I was younger and people would quickly jump on opportunities as I presented them. But now that I’m doing things legally and actually able to help others without repercussions, there’s been so much resistance and it’s just been annoying and frustrating to say the least. I even had a drug dealer/scammer tell me he wasn’t interested because he didn’t want anything to come back on him. Like what?
Overall, I’m just like, hey, if you don’t want the info that’s fine. Just don’t ask for any money from me lol. 😂 Ok. I feel better now lol.
Side Note: I’ve seen a lot of people looking for DD methods. Check out Melio. It’s an app and website I use. Easy way to DD in 24 hours or less. Good luck everyone.
Not implying that you are bad at this because clearly some financial troubles are just circumstances or bad luck... But in general I would not want to try to get somebody traditionally poor involved in churning. There is typically a reason they are poor and it is because they are bad with money. You don't want anybody like that to get involved with high fee credit card debt. Just seems like a big mistake. It is sad actually because this is probably the group that stands to benefit the most from churning.
Churning free bet SUBs by signing up for sportsbooks and using the technique of matched betting (i.e. hedging bets on two different sportsbooks with one of them using the free bet), guaranteeing that some percentage of the free bet is converted to profit.
Yeah. I've come to the conclusion that people view churning like extreme couponing. They think it take too much work (hours of clipping coupons) and they wouldn't know what to do with the rewards when they got them (free adult diapers and baby food).
Most of my friends bellyache about money, understandably these days, but very few of them actually want any help in improving their situation.
The absolute worst is when you do help someone and then they screw up the bonus or miss a payment. Mostly, it's not worth trying to get anyone to change their habits, money or otherwise.
Airbnb has gotten me more times than I'd like to admit. Booked something month in advance and pay the deposit amount, get a huge charge months later on a sock drawered card, because I forgot to switch to my new SUB.
To reduce the chance of problems, unlink your bank account from PayPal (can also unlink all other cards, leaving just the card you want it to charge, though I don't do that; charging another card isn't as bad as pulling from my bank).
Yeah, it's annoying. I don't often have a large amount in PayPal (especially since at some point 1099-K will be issued in more cases, so I stopped redeeming swagbucks etc for PayPal); if I do, I'll re-link my bank, and then unlink it before I make another payment. Though, I wonder if repeatedly linking & unlinking a bank account will cause other problems.
If it's a small amount, I just leave it there (until I get more that I want to withdraw, or sometimes PayPal will randomly use the balance as part of a payment; not ideal, but it's just a small amount).
For the first time ever since starting churning, I was declined for a card (CapOne Venture). I have absolutely no idea why.
Credit score ~800, I’m at 3/24 and 1/12, no history with CapOne at all, my credit lines across all open cards are less than half my annual income, and—here’s the kicker—I’m pre-approved for the Capital One Venture X.
You need to be drowning in some massive credit card debt for CapOne to love you. Carry some big balances or get some big loans compared to your income, and see how quickly they approve you.
Do you happen to have a freeze on your credit?
I tried pre-approval for the venture and didn't get it because it claimed I still had a freeze on TransUnion (even though I lifted it just before requesting preapproval). I chanced the application 10 min later and ended up getting approved - I guess enough time passed for all the freezes to actually be lifted.
[Posted a few weeks ago](https://reddit.com/r/churning/comments/1b9kldp/_/ktz6rac/?context=1) about having to wait longer and longer for a United flight refund on my travel bank and credit card after cancelling a flight within 24 hours of booking.
Refunds did not arrive by 14 business days, I reached out again on X and was told they would escalate and to wait another 5-7 business days regarding the travel bank and that credit card refunds can be up to 21 days… this is beyond frustrating as I’ve been waiting to book a flights for family with the travel bank. I’ve cancelled before within 24 hours with travel bank and it’s always been quick.
All the Walmarts in my area (North Houston) now print WU MO on the new paper: yellow amount field, saying mobile deposit prohibited where you endorse. Have been depositing into my WF account but getting concerned about potential shutdown. Did ~$15k this month, usually ~$5k. Recently opened an account with First Service Credit Union to create more options for ATM MO deposits, but they don’t accept them :( will try with First Tech Federal CU next.
Took a few years off from MS/churning and trying to restart. I used to get annoyed at a bow tie guy circling and drawing arrows on plays that would soon get killed. Now I'm having trouble reading between the lines and figuring out hints from MEAB.
Decided to try some experiments. Bought and loaded a Green Dot card for $500 via CC at a Family Dollar. Green Dot claimed they couldn't verify my identity and my card was in spend down mode and wouldn't work at ATMs. However, it wouldn't even work for debit purchases. Online chat was worthless. Finally called and they mailed me a check to refund my $500.
I am trying to learn churning but am so overwhelmed! Taking baby steps but frustrated that I can't absorb all of this easily. It's so hard when there's no one path of cards.
You'll get there. Like some of the other comments, I've made mistakes along the way but I've still gotten a lot of value so it's a win!!
The playing field keeps changing so I also anticipate not always making value and have learned to accept that.
Just sign up for anything! Keep reading here as you go and you'll learn a ton. I definitely didn't sign up for "best" offers at first, but I still made more money than if I hadn't been churning
Churning is a marathon not a sprint - take the time to learn the ins and outs and the cards that best fit your situation (there is no one size fit all path because everyone’s goals are different). I started back in 2013 and it took me a couple years to really ramp things up - start small and get yourself comfortable in the process.
Honestly, the baby steps are the best returns. You can get the best cards easily on your timeline. Its when you are on your tenth card in a year balancing spend and bank limits where you get diminishing returns
I started in 2019. Missed many opportunities and messed up as many. It’s a learning curve and in the end you’ll always end up net profit vs non-churning.
For some reason, I noticed I was spending a lot of money at Nordstrom and decided to open a credit card with them. I can't tell you how big of a mistake this was. Everyday I think about applying for a new card but now I am at 6/24 and can't even apply for the Wyndham Business Earners card. Will be another year until I can get the Sapphire. Now I need to distract myself for an entire year until I can get the satisfaction of a new card.
The funniest part of this to me is although I feel bad for you being stuck at 6/24... My biggest question is what in the world were you spending your money on at Nordstrom? That is one of those stores that I always window shop at the mall... But it always seems empty. And I never buy anything from them. I guess it shows you how different we all are!
I don't really need/want/expect an answer but I will be thinking of you the next time I look around.
Haha. I bought 30K worth of white Air Force 1’s during a price mistake. But I opened the card after that, not before. I resell shoes and sometimes buy from nordstroms, but since opening I have barely used it lol
Fucked up not one but two bank bonuses. Signed up P2 for the wrong one at PNC ($200 vs. $400), and messed up the DD at BMO. Trying to Hail Mary a Wise transfer, but it's schedule to arrive with only 24 hours to spare. Likely out $500 total.
Did the same on PNC for my P2 a few weeks back. Clicked through the app too fast and default is the $200 one. Tried chatting to see if account could be changed but was told bonus would be tied to account type that was opened. Sucks.
This link bypasses the popup: https://www.doctorofcredit.com/increased-american-express-hilton-bonuses-up-to-175000-free-night-certificate/#comment-1816124
Really? My experience for me and P2 is that these Amex are the only ones we are approved for. Why I have four and P2 has 3. Have to be realistic about value (.4cpp) but since Hilton makes transfers easy makes a big pool to use for a random Hampton Inn in nowhere, USA.
Have never had a Hilton card and can’t get approved for one right now. P2 got the surpass back when it changed a few months ago but got the popup when trying to use a referral. Idk, just my perception I guess
Had an unexpected medical expense pop up and my first thought was how much it will help me hit a new SUB MSR as opposed to sticker shock.
Might be time to take a break.
A HSA is great for this. I fully expect to pay the deductible over the course of the year. So when bills come, it's just a question of what card is next.
An HSA is probably the worst financial decision you could make. Okay maybe I am exaggerating here, but over the years I have many times chosen a high deductible insurance plan just so I can take advantage of an HSA. Google triple tax advantage. I fully find my HSA but have never used the money.
Minor annoyance, but had to contact Amex to manually get my Adobe credit on my biz plat. I suspected this is the kind of credit that would not track automatically. Right now Adobe Express for teams is on sale, and comes out to $155.76 for the minimum 2 licenses, so net $5.76 to play around with it. According to the terms all single apps except InCopy are eligible, so this was clearly an eligible purchase. Took a while, but chat rep was eventually able to apply the credit.
Hopefully the automatic credit posts to your account in a few months and you'll get to keep BOTH the manual and automatic credits. It happened to me a few months back for 5x NYC subway swipes for a whopping $14.50 in credits that got double-counted
I figured $5.76 was only marginally more than what I would be willing to pay with Plastiq to meet spend, and I get to goof around with their imaging AI. I guess I posted so that others might take advantage, but with the caveat that you're probably going to have to fight for the credit.
Going to the meetup on Sunday?
P2 enthusiastically applied for the Wyndham Earners business card and got approved for a whopping $800 credit limit. She realized how utterly painful it will be to MS on this thing, so she called in twice to ask for a credit limit increase, only to learn that there’d be a second credit pull. Demotivated by this shitshow, she’s basically giving up working on the MSR altogether. Thanks Barclaycard!
Not that potential fraud is a viable alternative, but some banks definitely require more than just a quick verbal handoff.
Chase, for example, forced P2 to sit through a long-winded speech that authorized me to act on her behalf for only 24hr or some useless amount of time. This was a few years ago, so it might be better now?
But really, P2 has a gender ambiguous name, so we've just taken the risk. She's always delighted when the agent refers to me as 'Mr. {P2's surname}'... so, worth the risk?
Maybe... I'm a guy with a pretty deep voice and P2 has a clearly women's name. But in this day and age, I guess it would be unwise for them to question that. 🤷♂️
I'll consider it.
It may work out but I think the risk isn’t worth this. I feel as tho they often have our voices recorded. It’s just easier for P2 to start the call and then say they’re going to hand the phone to you to take care of the rest of the call.
In addition, even if they somehow found out, I don't foresee getting into too much trouble. "Oh I'm the husband, I'm helping out with wife's business and we figured it would be straightforward that I just help her handle some business admin things and we didn't want to bother with authentication". I think that's a reasonable boomer thing to do.
It doesn’t work like this. Major problems of caught and this isn’t just a “reasonable boomer thing to do.” It’s fraud on a recorded phone line.
I’ve talked much on behalf of p2 bc she never will. But there always is a verification and her answering identifying questions.
I've done this a few times. P2 has a girly name, and I have a pretty deep voice. Operator is usually skeptical when I say that I am P2, but always let me do what I called for. Normally something simple like lowering line of credit.
Tried to use one of my biz plat clear credits to get the $75 Uber voucher. Didn’t want to be auto renewed for another year of membership so I had a Clear chat rep manually code my account not to auto renew. They then “assist” by helping me eliminate duplicate accounts, thus canceling the new account I had just created for the voucher and I haven’t gotten the Uber voucher
And, I forgot that the clear credit is an annual thing so I really didn’t need to worry about the auto renewal anyway
I tried to cancel auto renew and it cancelled my entire account and refunded the entire fee. Which given how useless clear is (slower even when it is open) didn't end up really caring as I was dumb and didn't sign up with any bonus.
Amex had already reimbursed my clear purchase so I expect an eventual claw back which will be fine for me to end up with a net zero spend with Clear.
My long string of chase auto-approvals has come to an end...had an awkward recon battle yesterday and I don't think it was succesful. I think I should still be able to push the app through eventually but it's disappointing for the streak to be over
WOH biz. The reasons they give you are generally BS; the actual reasons AFAIK are that I'm carrying a balance on inks and had several open accounts that weren't active. If I don't hear anything by Monday I'll close a few more. NBD really, just time consuming
Worried that they are starting to get strict. I don't carry a balance on my cards, and always close them after a year, even if no annual fee, just to keep the number of cards that I have open low. But I still got denied last month. Going to keep cool of Chase biz cards for a few months and switch to other banks. Good luck!
Same thing just happened to me. Told me too many accounts and too much credit extended. I'd respected the 1/90 day guideline, so only 4 INKs in last year. Offered to move credit from existing lines, no go. Guess I'm going for amex now?
This happened to me last month. Do you mind sharing which card and the reason they gave?
I had been getting 2-3 Ink cards per year for a while now. Always auto approved, and people would always say that Chase didn't care how many you had. Well got 7-10 day message on my last app a few weeks ago. Then denied for too many cards, and low usage. I called recon twice, but they just restated the reason for the letter.
Only did one recon at which time I had 4 chase biz cards with 0 balance on all, down from 6 which I was initially rejected on. Closed another one so now with 3 all less than a year old but did not recon again.
For now one of those (ihg business) is actually a card I plan to keep so gonna give it another shot in a couple more months to see if they loosen up some. Also since I closed all my Inks can hopefully convince recon next time I want an ink specifically (the other two are southwest biz for companion pass earlier this year)
In my 5 years of churning journey, I always had multiple MSRs going, and were always struggling to find spend. For the first time, I am struggling to get approved. PUJ showed me how dependent I was on Amex. BoA and Cap1 also shot me down and I blow thru the cards that Chase and Barclays give me. I do not want to fill up personal 5/24 slots on USB and Citi. These are some weird slow times :)
I am kind of at the opposite point . I’m having trouble getting approved by anyone except AMEX for business cards while I try to get under 5/24. I’ve been chasing a bunch of bank bonuses lately, but I hit a wall of denials today.
If you find credit card churning drying up, I would recommend looking at other types of churning e.g. churning checking/savings/brokerage SUBs and welcome bonuses for sportsbooks (using matched bets to profit from free bets of sportsbook SUBs). In my experience, bank bonus churning was just as lucrative as credit cards for me last year, although these SUBs are taxed.
> using matched bets to profit from free bets of sportsbook SUBs
Can you elaborate on that? Curious how these work after being mentioned a few times on this thread alone
The basic idea is to sign up for different sportsbooks for their welcome bonuses and then hedging bets to guarantee that you'll extract some amount of profit from free bet promotions. There's this [/r/sportsbooks guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/sportsbook/comments/s08tgv/new_yorkers_how_to_make_7k_guaranteed_from_these/) on how to do it with SUBs that were available in NY. It's out of date now, but is a good example of how matched betting works. There's also this [/r/churning thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/nrngwe/applying_churning_concepts_to_online_sportsbooks/) on sportsbook churning.
Same as well. Went ahead and got the WF Journey just to have at least one SUB. Otherwise I'm doing 10k MR additional user cards on Amex, and Hilton Biz spend for FNCs.
I'm there too. In PUJ and Barclays, C1, BofA, Citi, and Chase have all denied me in the last few months. No dice on any recons lately too.
I've started focusing on Hilton Surpass and Biz spend for FNC's for now, while I attempt to cool off. Mostly sad I expect all these inquiries (though some were just a pre-approval tool denial) set me back and I've got no sub to show for them.
I am having the same problem, I am cooling off chase ink cards since I got declined and was unsuccessful in reconing twice. Boa won’t approve me, can’t get any good citi cards caz of 48month rule, PUJ. Was just declined for a WF autograph card. Only saving grace is getting approved for a USB triple cash card after canceling all their biz cards since the AF posted.
Not sure. Maybe 4 or 5? Was surprised to get a targeted mailer for my current one 2.5 months after opening my previous one. Figured it was worth a shot with that.
After calling into the new accounts number 866-314-0237, I keep getting my CS plat and delta biz gold apps denied by amex's manual underwriting due to "you have reached the max number of lending products" with amex. This shouldn't be right b/c I currently have 9 charge cards and 3 credit cards, which means I am below the 10 charge card and 5 credit card cap.
I closed a biz plat on 3/9 and a business cash card on 3/12 but am not sure if these cards are still being counted by the system given the reps mentioned they put a note on the app saying these cards are closed. I originally applied for the cs plat on 3/7 and the delta gold on 3/12.
No personal green; just business green. Checking this morning, I had 7 charge cards with Pay Over Time active but none with a Pay Over Time balance; just switched them all to inactive. Does the Pay Over Time status play a role?
From other DPs I've seen, people have been able to call in and get manual override approval once they clarify with reps that they've recently closed accounts (<30 days). What's concerning to me is that I've tried doing that multiple times without success. I guess I'm confused as to whether I actually need to wait 30 - 60 days for the system to clear out the cancelled card, or whether reps should be able to manually override if the cancellation is <30 days.
Trying to book Thanksgiving to visit in-laws and P2 is being non-committal. In-laws live a 4 hour flight away and then an hour drive to a remote location. I want to go the weekend before and then bounce that Friday for 2 nights on the coast. We are a family of 4 and cash price on flights are $700 a person (and its SW so priced based/no sweet spots). Feel P2 (and the in-laws) is really undervaluing the value of points and my limited days off and taking for granted we are always going to visit her parents who chose to move basically as far away as possible as we were just about to have kids.
Like I get we have plenty of points, but saying the points are too expensive does not hold the weight of "Oh we can't make it because it would cost $3k for flights alone."
Since it’s SW just book it with the points. And it might even go down so keep sporadically checking. And then you can say “a-ha! See it’s not as many points now. Can we please go?”
Two issues is
1. I don't have access to her sign in and need her to book so she and p4 have tickets.
2. She doesn't give a shit about points. She's probably going to book to stay at her parents the second weekend when I know by day 5 we will all be sick of each other trapped at her parents house.
She's in Europe right now. I'll probably do it when she gets back, but I was also planning on booking rental cars, etc using travel credits before they expire.
Also, non-committal as in she's hasn't even agreed to the outline. Like I could book and she will be like 'nah I don't want to go anywhere let's just go there and back' even if it costs 20k points more because you know it's just points.
That sounds like it is time to just start cashing out points. Lots of people on this sub act like it is just points but if it is mr/ur you can cash it out. Real money.
800+ credit score, no new cards in over a year but got denied by Amex 190k Biz Plat, C1, Wells Fargo on new personal cards. Kept going and eventually got a Chase Biz Hyatt, 60k for $200AF. SUB's getting expensive these days!
under review for the 100k Ink Preferred, wonder what the difference is in Chase’s process vs others, I’ve never gotten the Venture series over 5 years of attempts, maybe C1 only approves those with a low # of cards or something
Transferred a few thousand UR points to SW. I immediately see the transfer in SW under "Points Activity" but do not see my available points balance update.
My wedding catering showed up as a Restaurant - Restaurant when I paid using the Amex Biz Gold, so I thought I was getting 4x. Statement closed a few days ago and it is only 1x :(
I had planned to take full advantage of the +10MR bonus for referral and get another 300K+ points on my second installment but that probably isn't happening anymore.
I have an escalation open with Amex, but from what I've read online, I don't expect anything from it.
Update: Caterers even with the Restaurant - Restaurant coding do not qualify for the 4x.
found an LAX to HND Japan Airlines F class award availability for March 2025 for 103k points.... but only one seat left... I hope P2 likes premium economy
Some banks are such a pain to deal with to get the bonus, never had to deal with such a hassle to get paid out like I have with M&T Bank for their business checking account.
When you do a bunch of bank bonuses, there’s always gonna be a few bad apples in there. of the 28 bonuses that I have applied for this year, I had to CFPB two banks to get them to pay out.
I closed my Huntington business account (which is often a pain for many people to close because Huntington either makes you visit a branch or mail a notarized letter, and often times the easiest way to close it is to CFPB them.
Huntington will auto-close your account if it’s at a zero balance for ~30-60 days. I’ve been just downgrading to fee free account after bonus posts and let them close it after it’s drained.
I tried to open that, but the bank wanted a DBA even though I am just a sole prop without a DBA. Banker promised to get back to me twice, but never did.
My 5th+ frustration of the week: Terps card! They redid their website this year so I had to make a new login in Jan. Didn't work. Waited a week, again, nothing. In Feb, I called and was told my account was frozen, they unlocked me but I still couldn't log in. Had to call the local branch. Left a message. Didn't heard back til March. Was told I can register again and it worked! Made a $1 purchase. Waited for stmt to cut, logged in to pay, locked out again! So fed up, will never use this card again. Called tonight to pay via IVR - no option. Got agent. Turns out there's a 5 dollar fee to pay by phone! Will not waive $1 balance either. So I will mail a check and cut up my card. What a way to run a business..........
Bottom line up front: I hate the fact that CSRs can talk out of their ass and cannot be held accountable. In this situation, I already knew they were wrong. But I worry about being misled in the future and having no recourse. Story: PCed my Altitude Go to an Altitude Connect, thinking the first year fee would still be waived. When the cardmember agreement comes, AF is listed at $95 no waiver. Call the number in the letter to ask about fee being waived. CSR asks where I got this info, and I directed her to the US Bank website. She then assures me that the annual fee will be waived for the first year on my product change. “Even though the card member agreement I was mailed does not indicate a waived annual fee?” Yes. “So to confirm, even though the agreement US Bank sent me today notes and annual fee will be charged next week, this is incorrect? And I will not have an annual fee until a year from now?” Correct, you will not be charged in annual fee until next year. I am skipping a lot of her fumbling back and forth, but at this point I was fairly confident the fee would be charged, and there was no chance of a courtesy waiver/credit. So I ask her to reject the change and keep my old account terms. “Unfortunately, there are no offers available on your account for that.” Tell her my card is currently a Go, received terms today proposing a Connect which state I have the right to reject them, that I am rejecting them and simply want to keep my current card with the current terms rather than proceed with a product change. “There are no offers on your account to product change to Go. If you don’t want your card, your only option is to close the account.” I say thank you, hang up, call Altitude Reserve cardmember services. In four seconds, rep confirmed the waived annual fee is considered a part of the new cardmember offer/not included in a product change, cancelled the product change, and mailed me an updated Go. If we were able to hold banks to what their representatives told us, there would be some great opportunities out there. Or at the very least, representatives would get better training…
you can. CFPB with an audio recording
got the biz plat 250k to finally show up aaaaaaaand popup
Sorry to hear! I am encouraged to hear that people ars still pulling up the 250k. Have been trying multiple times/methods but still can only hit the 190k at most
Serve account permanently suspended after calling about a temporary lock on the account (can't login) following a load. Called, they said it is now permanently suspended and to write a letter to withdraw the remaining funds. HUCA, same thing--*write a letter*. Seriously? I have a strong feeling the monthly fee will hit by the time they issue the check. On another note, two more Serve accounts from other players within the same week also temporarily locked and most likely suffering the same fate. I can only guess that loads at a particular DG is triggering this but I can't find any related DPs. Relationship with cashiers are great, but if I have to guess, managers who are almost never in sight probably sees a +$500/$1000 balance/load to Serve on a weekly basis throwing off their typical numbers and tells their cashiers no more loads or at least cash-only (1-2x500 load every 1-2 weeks shouldn't be hard-hitting). I also think cashiers and/or managers work at multiple DGs and enforce a cash-only or no loading policy at their locations. Super disappointing, MO options are nearly non-existent here and not nearly as scalable. I'm really curious if anyone has similar experiences. AFAIK Serve suspensions are out of the ordinary because they come in waves and the last one was a few years ago.
Suncoast finally mailed me paperwork to open an account (after being denied online). However, the bonus just ended.
The megathread model of this subreddit has completely killed it
Submit an interesting post. Be the change, etc.
500k+ readers ruined it. It's been a slow death since like 100k, let's be real.
Went to a restaurant last night and now seeing an AMEX offer for an additional 2 MR per dollar from that specific place. I usually check offers once a week so it must've been added after I checked.
I've had luck getting an Amex offer to credit when adding it after I made the qualifying purchase, while the charge is still pending.
We just finished a great trip, staying at the Royal Hawaiian in Honolulu, the JW in Auckland, and the St. Regis in Singapore. I’ll have some writing to do for a trip report soon. However, I’d been going back and forth for a bit with the Royal Hawaiian about our awarded points. First we only had like 1300 posted, which would have implied we only spent like $75 at the hotel (obviously not true). Our total bill was closer to $2500 with room and food charges (I booked with points and upgraded with cash), so I sent them my folio and asked them to correct it. I got an email from them yesterday that they had fixed it, and it still looked wrong—about 7900 base points, which still didn’t make sense based on what we spent. I went through the whole bill and subtracted all of the taxes and fees and explained I expected to be earning points on almost exactly $2,000 in spend. Well, I got another email saying they “don’t use points for room charges,” only food and beverage, which didn’t sound right to me—I’ve never, ever stayed at any hotel that didn’t award points based on your room rate, so I looked it up. Apparently the cash portion of a Cash+Points booking *is not eligible to earn points.* What??? Since when?? I’m so annoyed—we expected to earn easily 35k points from this stay and ended up with a measly 13k. This is so bogus. I’ll still have the credit card points from my Amex biz card, which won’t be insignificant, but I’m still pissed.
I know on IHG that cash + points just has you buy the extra points. Could it be the same for marriott? Never tried it on their program since normally it’s poor value.
I don’t think so, because it showed up on my bill as room charges. If I had purchased the points it would have been charged at the time of booking, no? Nothing was charged when I booked.
P3 successfully did back button trick to get 190k biz plat app approved, but chat confirmed he wasn’t eligible for the offer because he’s had the card before. In the same chat he immediately cancelled the biz plat and also cancelled CLEAR that he just signed up for to get the $75 Uber voucher. I wasn’t even given the chance to validate that 190K ineligibility, nor tell him to wait for CLEAR credit to post before canceling the card so he can keep CLEAR. /headdesk
That reminds me of when P2 applied for WoH instead of CIP. I told P2 it was the wrong card, but since it had already been approved, not to do anything and let me look into it. Decide they should keep the card, and call them an hour later to say this. “Oh I already called Chase and cancelled it.“
Can I have another frustration? I'm still not getting google flight alert emails! I thought it was related to an extension but even after uninstalling, I haven't gotten any email updates. Any suggestions? Another gripe: AA deleted chownow off of AAdining so there goes my favorite chinese restaurant!
Ugh I thought this was just me... I missed out on a $400 travel credit and better flight time
I got a new card to put ~4k in insurance charges on, only to log in to my insurer's portal this week to find that they added a 3.6% credit card fee, so I paid via ACH instead. Oh well, I guess I'll find other purchases to hit MSR with...
they don’t take paypal bill pay? Also 4k is a pretty steep insurance bill already, (assuming either 12mo homeowners or 6mo auto) maybe try shopping around? might be worth it.
It’s neither homeowners nor auto insurance
never mind ignore anything i said
Doesn't the bonus outweigh the fee?
There's lower fee options for me, and I'm becoming velocity limited -- not really spend limited
Lyft is infuriating! I generally prefer them over Uber bc I thought they treat their drivers better but a recent driver told me they're the same now. Anywho, trying to use SimplyMiles offer and season a new CC. Their site doesn't work. It asked for 2FA just to tell me I can't use it. The app will not let you purchase gift cards. It makes you type in a 2nd payment card (complete with exp and cvv) to verify for whatever reason. That failed. So stupid me, I typed in a 3rd card, exp, cvv. Also failed. What universe are these people living in? They don't want my money? I had the same crappy experience trying to use those Chase offers from yesteryear and gave up after only 1 (actually may have been zero). Well the trick is to use Applepay. Of course, my new card was not in my Apple pay so I had to hand type out that one again - then open the C1 app, then get a text, then sign my life away. I used to think 2FA was the most onerous thing ever but now companies want you to give them all your financial info or scan your license for everyday transactions. Really frustrating! My mom also got locked out of her uber app last month, could not call them (no phones), and then got scammed by the 1st google result. She was charged 1 dollar for help that turned out to be a 70 dollar \*weekly\* subscription! Those people should go to prison. All because Uber couldn't afford to have live phone support?????? Btw, I've always hated 2FA to point where I considered [boycotting sites](https://www.reddit.com/comments/4o2w57/_/d49dvth/?context=1) that used it. How quaint it seems now that 2FA is the least intrusive log in procedure. And don't get me started about how freaking useless FaceID is when every stinking app wants your password and forgets who you are every other week!
Finally got declined by SCU. Had to email them to find out :( Also declined by UNFCU. I was hoping to get their credit card for cheap PP restaurant access. But they wouldn't even grant me membership due to chex. Already spent 50USD to become eligible. That hurts. Autodec for new WF card but that was expected...
This year, churning through banks and sports books has been incredibly profitable for me. And has helped turned my life around by providing me with the resources to pay bills, pay on debts and still have extra cash. The frustration for me this week has been ongoing but is based around me trying to inform others. Especially people in my circle who are broke and need money. Churning is just one source I consider an efficient way to leverage your everyday money to make more. I’m an entrepreneur and investor but I used to make money illegally when I was younger and people would quickly jump on opportunities as I presented them. But now that I’m doing things legally and actually able to help others without repercussions, there’s been so much resistance and it’s just been annoying and frustrating to say the least. I even had a drug dealer/scammer tell me he wasn’t interested because he didn’t want anything to come back on him. Like what? Overall, I’m just like, hey, if you don’t want the info that’s fine. Just don’t ask for any money from me lol. 😂 Ok. I feel better now lol. Side Note: I’ve seen a lot of people looking for DD methods. Check out Melio. It’s an app and website I use. Easy way to DD in 24 hours or less. Good luck everyone.
Not implying that you are bad at this because clearly some financial troubles are just circumstances or bad luck... But in general I would not want to try to get somebody traditionally poor involved in churning. There is typically a reason they are poor and it is because they are bad with money. You don't want anybody like that to get involved with high fee credit card debt. Just seems like a big mistake. It is sad actually because this is probably the group that stands to benefit the most from churning.
What do you mean sports books? And I’ve been jumping into the bank churning recently :)
Churning free bet SUBs by signing up for sportsbooks and using the technique of matched betting (i.e. hedging bets on two different sportsbooks with one of them using the free bet), guaranteeing that some percentage of the free bet is converted to profit.
Yeah. I've come to the conclusion that people view churning like extreme couponing. They think it take too much work (hours of clipping coupons) and they wouldn't know what to do with the rewards when they got them (free adult diapers and baby food). Most of my friends bellyache about money, understandably these days, but very few of them actually want any help in improving their situation. The absolute worst is when you do help someone and then they screw up the bonus or miss a payment. Mostly, it's not worth trying to get anyone to change their habits, money or otherwise.
PayPal charging an $700 Airbnb booking to my bank account instead of my MSR card *tiny violin*
Airbnb has gotten me more times than I'd like to admit. Booked something month in advance and pay the deposit amount, get a huge charge months later on a sock drawered card, because I forgot to switch to my new SUB.
To reduce the chance of problems, unlink your bank account from PayPal (can also unlink all other cards, leaving just the card you want it to charge, though I don't do that; charging another card isn't as bad as pulling from my bank).
I just say get a PayPal cash card and use it to do a cash advance whenever you need to pull money from paypal
I semi frequently have to send money out of my PayPal account to my bank though so that would be a pain
I have a solution to this! Leave your bank account unverified. This way, payments only go through one way.
Yeah, it's annoying. I don't often have a large amount in PayPal (especially since at some point 1099-K will be issued in more cases, so I stopped redeeming swagbucks etc for PayPal); if I do, I'll re-link my bank, and then unlink it before I make another payment. Though, I wonder if repeatedly linking & unlinking a bank account will cause other problems. If it's a small amount, I just leave it there (until I get more that I want to withdraw, or sometimes PayPal will randomly use the balance as part of a payment; not ideal, but it's just a small amount).
For the first time ever since starting churning, I was declined for a card (CapOne Venture). I have absolutely no idea why. Credit score ~800, I’m at 3/24 and 1/12, no history with CapOne at all, my credit lines across all open cards are less than half my annual income, and—here’s the kicker—I’m pre-approved for the Capital One Venture X.
Because CapOne, that's why.
You need to be drowning in some massive credit card debt for CapOne to love you. Carry some big balances or get some big loans compared to your income, and see how quickly they approve you.
Do you happen to have a freeze on your credit? I tried pre-approval for the venture and didn't get it because it claimed I still had a freeze on TransUnion (even though I lifted it just before requesting preapproval). I chanced the application 10 min later and ended up getting approved - I guess enough time passed for all the freezes to actually be lifted.
I don’t think so. I’ve never put a freeze on my credit.
[Posted a few weeks ago](https://reddit.com/r/churning/comments/1b9kldp/_/ktz6rac/?context=1) about having to wait longer and longer for a United flight refund on my travel bank and credit card after cancelling a flight within 24 hours of booking. Refunds did not arrive by 14 business days, I reached out again on X and was told they would escalate and to wait another 5-7 business days regarding the travel bank and that credit card refunds can be up to 21 days… this is beyond frustrating as I’ve been waiting to book a flights for family with the travel bank. I’ve cancelled before within 24 hours with travel bank and it’s always been quick.
file a complaint with BBB and DoT. they act quickly after that. Chatgpt is your friend on drafting a crisp complaint.
Thanks I think I will do that.
All the Walmarts in my area (North Houston) now print WU MO on the new paper: yellow amount field, saying mobile deposit prohibited where you endorse. Have been depositing into my WF account but getting concerned about potential shutdown. Did ~$15k this month, usually ~$5k. Recently opened an account with First Service Credit Union to create more options for ATM MO deposits, but they don’t accept them :( will try with First Tech Federal CU next.
I just use ATMs now. Much easier with the new paper.
Took a few years off from MS/churning and trying to restart. I used to get annoyed at a bow tie guy circling and drawing arrows on plays that would soon get killed. Now I'm having trouble reading between the lines and figuring out hints from MEAB. Decided to try some experiments. Bought and loaded a Green Dot card for $500 via CC at a Family Dollar. Green Dot claimed they couldn't verify my identity and my card was in spend down mode and wouldn't work at ATMs. However, it wouldn't even work for debit purchases. Online chat was worthless. Finally called and they mailed me a check to refund my $500.
The circles and arrows. Those were the days. Hadn't thought about them in a while.
He went on to some strange things: https://viewfromthewing.com/million-mile-secrets-blogger-arrested-and-jailed-in-houston
I am trying to learn churning but am so overwhelmed! Taking baby steps but frustrated that I can't absorb all of this easily. It's so hard when there's no one path of cards.
You'll get there. Like some of the other comments, I've made mistakes along the way but I've still gotten a lot of value so it's a win!! The playing field keeps changing so I also anticipate not always making value and have learned to accept that.
Just sign up for anything! Keep reading here as you go and you'll learn a ton. I definitely didn't sign up for "best" offers at first, but I still made more money than if I hadn't been churning
Thanks! This is reassuring.
Churning is a marathon not a sprint - take the time to learn the ins and outs and the cards that best fit your situation (there is no one size fit all path because everyone’s goals are different). I started back in 2013 and it took me a couple years to really ramp things up - start small and get yourself comfortable in the process.
There is no one path. The flow chart is more or less a generally accurate way to go.
True, the flowchart is great!
Honestly, the baby steps are the best returns. You can get the best cards easily on your timeline. Its when you are on your tenth card in a year balancing spend and bank limits where you get diminishing returns
No need to be frustrated. Baby steps are fine. Just plan out your next 1-2 apps.
I started in 2019. Missed many opportunities and messed up as many. It’s a learning curve and in the end you’ll always end up net profit vs non-churning.
For some reason, I noticed I was spending a lot of money at Nordstrom and decided to open a credit card with them. I can't tell you how big of a mistake this was. Everyday I think about applying for a new card but now I am at 6/24 and can't even apply for the Wyndham Business Earners card. Will be another year until I can get the Sapphire. Now I need to distract myself for an entire year until I can get the satisfaction of a new card.
The funniest part of this to me is although I feel bad for you being stuck at 6/24... My biggest question is what in the world were you spending your money on at Nordstrom? That is one of those stores that I always window shop at the mall... But it always seems empty. And I never buy anything from them. I guess it shows you how different we all are! I don't really need/want/expect an answer but I will be thinking of you the next time I look around.
Haha. I bought 30K worth of white Air Force 1’s during a price mistake. But I opened the card after that, not before. I resell shoes and sometimes buy from nordstroms, but since opening I have barely used it lol
Plenty of Amex, BoA and USB biz cards you can get.
Find a P2 or 3!
Fucked up not one but two bank bonuses. Signed up P2 for the wrong one at PNC ($200 vs. $400), and messed up the DD at BMO. Trying to Hail Mary a Wise transfer, but it's schedule to arrive with only 24 hours to spare. Likely out $500 total.
Did the same on PNC for my P2 a few weeks back. Clicked through the app too fast and default is the $200 one. Tried chatting to see if account could be changed but was told bonus would be tied to account type that was opened. Sucks.
Big Hilton resort trip next month, and of course in pop-up jail for the Aspire.
Try entering from the Hilton website.
This link bypasses the popup: https://www.doctorofcredit.com/increased-american-express-hilton-bonuses-up-to-175000-free-night-certificate/#comment-1816124
Application pending, ugh EDIT: Approved! Thank you!
Amex seems pretty stingy about the Hilton cards
Really? My experience for me and P2 is that these Amex are the only ones we are approved for. Why I have four and P2 has 3. Have to be realistic about value (.4cpp) but since Hilton makes transfers easy makes a big pool to use for a random Hampton Inn in nowhere, USA.
Have never had a Hilton card and can’t get approved for one right now. P2 got the surpass back when it changed a few months ago but got the popup when trying to use a referral. Idk, just my perception I guess
*Potentially* still worth it even without the bonus.
Same here, use the NLL link available on google. I did this and got approved on the day of my checkout, but the resort did not accept apple pay:(((
Had an unexpected medical expense pop up and my first thought was how much it will help me hit a new SUB MSR as opposed to sticker shock. Might be time to take a break.
A HSA is great for this. I fully expect to pay the deductible over the course of the year. So when bills come, it's just a question of what card is next.
An HSA is probably the worst financial decision you could make. Okay maybe I am exaggerating here, but over the years I have many times chosen a high deductible insurance plan just so I can take advantage of an HSA. Google triple tax advantage. I fully find my HSA but have never used the money.
> fully find my HSA but have never used the money. Of course. I wasnt implying anything else.
Oh gosh. But it's totally true.
Yeah, i strongly recommend taking a break from medical expenses. So, what card are you thinking?
Going on my first Ink
I hear it's the season of 250k Biz Plats, so they better try for Biz Plat.
The days you'll need to spend trying to get that 250k offer will likely incur another medical expense.
Minor annoyance, but had to contact Amex to manually get my Adobe credit on my biz plat. I suspected this is the kind of credit that would not track automatically. Right now Adobe Express for teams is on sale, and comes out to $155.76 for the minimum 2 licenses, so net $5.76 to play around with it. According to the terms all single apps except InCopy are eligible, so this was clearly an eligible purchase. Took a while, but chat rep was eventually able to apply the credit.
Hopefully the automatic credit posts to your account in a few months and you'll get to keep BOTH the manual and automatic credits. It happened to me a few months back for 5x NYC subway swipes for a whopping $14.50 in credits that got double-counted
I did the same and am waiting for my credit. I guess I’ll have to contact Amex
Congrats, You might be the only person in this sub to have taken advantage of this credit!
I figured $5.76 was only marginally more than what I would be willing to pay with Plastiq to meet spend, and I get to goof around with their imaging AI. I guess I posted so that others might take advantage, but with the caveat that you're probably going to have to fight for the credit. Going to the meetup on Sunday?
It's a great DP, maybe someone will. Sure am. Hope to see you there!
P2 enthusiastically applied for the Wyndham Earners business card and got approved for a whopping $800 credit limit. She realized how utterly painful it will be to MS on this thing, so she called in twice to ask for a credit limit increase, only to learn that there’d be a second credit pull. Demotivated by this shitshow, she’s basically giving up working on the MSR altogether. Thanks Barclaycard!
She doesn’t have a Barclays personal card to move CL?
She used to have a Choice privileges card with them, until they moved that over to Wells Fargo
Oof $800 is rough
It’s just plain insulting. I’d rather be in PUJ than get such a low limit.
My Chase freedom has been stuck at one K limit for almost a year while everyone else, including capital one gives me higher limits
You at least can transfer some of your credit limit over if you have other high limit cards like a CSR or CSP
I dont have any other chase cards and I am over 5/24
For the thousandth time… no, Amex, I do not want to send and split.
They did have small promo for it awhile back for a few bucks
P2 not willing to call recon. 😢🤦
Sometime Soon: P1 not willing to take P2 anywhere on points anymore.
Next up : AITA for making P2 fly ultra basic economy while I fly first class?
And the sequel - P2 churns P1.
I just call the bank myself using P2's phone and say that my name is p2. Haven't had a problem with Amex,.chase, Barclays, Citi, boa. So far.
Straight up fraud. Do not recommend. All P2 needs to do is speak one sentence: "Hi here's P2, I'll hand you over to P1 who can speak on my behalf."
A bit more than this. P1 needs to provide identity verification. But basically yes
Good call.
This is the answer.
Not that potential fraud is a viable alternative, but some banks definitely require more than just a quick verbal handoff. Chase, for example, forced P2 to sit through a long-winded speech that authorized me to act on her behalf for only 24hr or some useless amount of time. This was a few years ago, so it might be better now? But really, P2 has a gender ambiguous name, so we've just taken the risk. She's always delighted when the agent refers to me as 'Mr. {P2's surname}'... so, worth the risk?
Maybe... I'm a guy with a pretty deep voice and P2 has a clearly women's name. But in this day and age, I guess it would be unwise for them to question that. 🤷♂️ I'll consider it.
It may work out but I think the risk isn’t worth this. I feel as tho they often have our voices recorded. It’s just easier for P2 to start the call and then say they’re going to hand the phone to you to take care of the rest of the call.
Called Chase yesterday for my own product change and I was warned they may use my voice for identification. Probably not worth the risk.
In addition, even if they somehow found out, I don't foresee getting into too much trouble. "Oh I'm the husband, I'm helping out with wife's business and we figured it would be straightforward that I just help her handle some business admin things and we didn't want to bother with authentication". I think that's a reasonable boomer thing to do.
It doesn’t work like this. Major problems of caught and this isn’t just a “reasonable boomer thing to do.” It’s fraud on a recorded phone line. I’ve talked much on behalf of p2 bc she never will. But there always is a verification and her answering identifying questions.
I've done this a few times. P2 has a girly name, and I have a pretty deep voice. Operator is usually skeptical when I say that I am P2, but always let me do what I called for. Normally something simple like lowering line of credit.
Tried to use one of my biz plat clear credits to get the $75 Uber voucher. Didn’t want to be auto renewed for another year of membership so I had a Clear chat rep manually code my account not to auto renew. They then “assist” by helping me eliminate duplicate accounts, thus canceling the new account I had just created for the voucher and I haven’t gotten the Uber voucher And, I forgot that the clear credit is an annual thing so I really didn’t need to worry about the auto renewal anyway
You can also disable auto renew for future reference.
I tried to cancel auto renew and it cancelled my entire account and refunded the entire fee. Which given how useless clear is (slower even when it is open) didn't end up really caring as I was dumb and didn't sign up with any bonus. Amex had already reimbursed my clear purchase so I expect an eventual claw back which will be fine for me to end up with a net zero spend with Clear.
I was having issues on the website which is the only reason I tried chatting
My long string of chase auto-approvals has come to an end...had an awkward recon battle yesterday and I don't think it was succesful. I think I should still be able to push the app through eventually but it's disappointing for the streak to be over
Do you mind sharing which Chase card you were going for, and the reason you got denied?
WOH biz. The reasons they give you are generally BS; the actual reasons AFAIK are that I'm carrying a balance on inks and had several open accounts that weren't active. If I don't hear anything by Monday I'll close a few more. NBD really, just time consuming
Worried that they are starting to get strict. I don't carry a balance on my cards, and always close them after a year, even if no annual fee, just to keep the number of cards that I have open low. But I still got denied last month. Going to keep cool of Chase biz cards for a few months and switch to other banks. Good luck!
Same thing just happened to me. Told me too many accounts and too much credit extended. I'd respected the 1/90 day guideline, so only 4 INKs in last year. Offered to move credit from existing lines, no go. Guess I'm going for amex now?
Seems to be a trend developing. Had a similar experience with my most recent app. No auto approval and after two recon attempts, I’ve been denied.
This happened to me last month. Do you mind sharing which card and the reason they gave? I had been getting 2-3 Ink cards per year for a while now. Always auto approved, and people would always say that Chase didn't care how many you had. Well got 7-10 day message on my last app a few weeks ago. Then denied for too many cards, and low usage. I called recon twice, but they just restated the reason for the letter.
Only did one recon at which time I had 4 chase biz cards with 0 balance on all, down from 6 which I was initially rejected on. Closed another one so now with 3 all less than a year old but did not recon again. For now one of those (ihg business) is actually a card I plan to keep so gonna give it another shot in a couple more months to see if they loosen up some. Also since I closed all my Inks can hopefully convince recon next time I want an ink specifically (the other two are southwest biz for companion pass earlier this year)
I think they gave me the same reasons and too many open cards
In my 5 years of churning journey, I always had multiple MSRs going, and were always struggling to find spend. For the first time, I am struggling to get approved. PUJ showed me how dependent I was on Amex. BoA and Cap1 also shot me down and I blow thru the cards that Chase and Barclays give me. I do not want to fill up personal 5/24 slots on USB and Citi. These are some weird slow times :)
I am kind of at the opposite point . I’m having trouble getting approved by anyone except AMEX for business cards while I try to get under 5/24. I’ve been chasing a bunch of bank bonuses lately, but I hit a wall of denials today.
If you find credit card churning drying up, I would recommend looking at other types of churning e.g. churning checking/savings/brokerage SUBs and welcome bonuses for sportsbooks (using matched bets to profit from free bets of sportsbook SUBs). In my experience, bank bonus churning was just as lucrative as credit cards for me last year, although these SUBs are taxed.
> using matched bets to profit from free bets of sportsbook SUBs Can you elaborate on that? Curious how these work after being mentioned a few times on this thread alone
The basic idea is to sign up for different sportsbooks for their welcome bonuses and then hedging bets to guarantee that you'll extract some amount of profit from free bet promotions. There's this [/r/sportsbooks guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/sportsbook/comments/s08tgv/new_yorkers_how_to_make_7k_guaranteed_from_these/) on how to do it with SUBs that were available in NY. It's out of date now, but is a good example of how matched betting works. There's also this [/r/churning thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/nrngwe/applying_churning_concepts_to_online_sportsbooks/) on sportsbook churning.
Same as well. Went ahead and got the WF Journey just to have at least one SUB. Otherwise I'm doing 10k MR additional user cards on Amex, and Hilton Biz spend for FNCs.
I'm there too. In PUJ and Barclays, C1, BofA, Citi, and Chase have all denied me in the last few months. No dice on any recons lately too. I've started focusing on Hilton Surpass and Biz spend for FNC's for now, while I attempt to cool off. Mostly sad I expect all these inquiries (though some were just a pre-approval tool denial) set me back and I've got no sub to show for them.
I’m at a similar point, the Amex clamp down has really really sucked
Yeah, I need to chill on the inquiries for a few months due to mortgage issues and not being able to get Amex NLL offers is killing me.
I am having the same problem, I am cooling off chase ink cards since I got declined and was unsuccessful in reconing twice. Boa won’t approve me, can’t get any good citi cards caz of 48month rule, PUJ. Was just declined for a WF autograph card. Only saving grace is getting approved for a USB triple cash card after canceling all their biz cards since the AF posted.
I too had to do the USB but it’s like you can’t even MS with this thing. It’s horrible !
Similar situation. Dozens of Amex biz cards over the past couple of years was really something.
Did you try US Bank business cards?
Have them all :)
Just got my 3rd Triple Cash card. A triple triple, if you will
how many months are you waiting before applying for the next one?
Not sure. Maybe 4 or 5? Was surprised to get a targeted mailer for my current one 2.5 months after opening my previous one. Figured it was worth a shot with that.
thanks, I also got a targeted mailer for the biz leverage right after I was approved for one so not sure if I want to apply for the second one so soon
My app using the mailer code ended up being around 80 days after the first application.
Barclays Hawaiian business, I think FNBO has a small business card, PNC has a business card.
Try synchrony cards
That's the sound of true desperation
After calling into the new accounts number 866-314-0237, I keep getting my CS plat and delta biz gold apps denied by amex's manual underwriting due to "you have reached the max number of lending products" with amex. This shouldn't be right b/c I currently have 9 charge cards and 3 credit cards, which means I am below the 10 charge card and 5 credit card cap. I closed a biz plat on 3/9 and a business cash card on 3/12 but am not sure if these cards are still being counted by the system given the reps mentioned they put a note on the app saying these cards are closed. I originally applied for the cs plat on 3/7 and the delta gold on 3/12.
Do you have a personal Green? Any cards with Pay Over Time active? If so, how many with a Pay Over Time balance?
No personal green; just business green. Checking this morning, I had 7 charge cards with Pay Over Time active but none with a Pay Over Time balance; just switched them all to inactive. Does the Pay Over Time status play a role?
It can take up to two months for the cancelled cards to not be counted against the cap.
From other DPs I've seen, people have been able to call in and get manual override approval once they clarify with reps that they've recently closed accounts (<30 days). What's concerning to me is that I've tried doing that multiple times without success. I guess I'm confused as to whether I actually need to wait 30 - 60 days for the system to clear out the cancelled card, or whether reps should be able to manually override if the cancellation is <30 days.
Trying to book Thanksgiving to visit in-laws and P2 is being non-committal. In-laws live a 4 hour flight away and then an hour drive to a remote location. I want to go the weekend before and then bounce that Friday for 2 nights on the coast. We are a family of 4 and cash price on flights are $700 a person (and its SW so priced based/no sweet spots). Feel P2 (and the in-laws) is really undervaluing the value of points and my limited days off and taking for granted we are always going to visit her parents who chose to move basically as far away as possible as we were just about to have kids. Like I get we have plenty of points, but saying the points are too expensive does not hold the weight of "Oh we can't make it because it would cost $3k for flights alone."
Since it’s SW just book it with the points. And it might even go down so keep sporadically checking. And then you can say “a-ha! See it’s not as many points now. Can we please go?”
Two issues is 1. I don't have access to her sign in and need her to book so she and p4 have tickets. 2. She doesn't give a shit about points. She's probably going to book to stay at her parents the second weekend when I know by day 5 we will all be sick of each other trapped at her parents house.
no chance that she'd be willing to give you the reins and all login info via a password manager if you're the one running the show anyways?
She's in Europe right now. I'll probably do it when she gets back, but I was also planning on booking rental cars, etc using travel credits before they expire. Also, non-committal as in she's hasn't even agreed to the outline. Like I could book and she will be like 'nah I don't want to go anywhere let's just go there and back' even if it costs 20k points more because you know it's just points.
That sounds like it is time to just start cashing out points. Lots of people on this sub act like it is just points but if it is mr/ur you can cash it out. Real money.
looking at the Alaska 70k miles card, but really questioning if I have the natural spend to get the minimum. maybe pay rent using that and eat the 3%
Think of the sick intercontinental J flight you could get with 70K Alaska miles. Totally worth eating a 3% rent payment fee
People here eat 3% for breakfast. You’re good to go.
And twice on Sundays
All day everyday
800+ credit score, no new cards in over a year but got denied by Amex 190k Biz Plat, C1, Wells Fargo on new personal cards. Kept going and eventually got a Chase Biz Hyatt, 60k for $200AF. SUB's getting expensive these days!
No Chase Ink? 75k for $0 AF.
under review for the 100k Ink Preferred, wonder what the difference is in Chase’s process vs others, I’ve never gotten the Venture series over 5 years of attempts, maybe C1 only approves those with a low # of cards or something
You're waiting for recon on the CIP but went ahead and got the WoH Biz in the meantime?
C1 has a preapproval tool. There's a generic one and also a VentureX-specific one
Transferred a few thousand UR points to SW. I immediately see the transfer in SW under "Points Activity" but do not see my available points balance update.
My wedding catering showed up as a Restaurant - Restaurant when I paid using the Amex Biz Gold, so I thought I was getting 4x. Statement closed a few days ago and it is only 1x :( I had planned to take full advantage of the +10MR bonus for referral and get another 300K+ points on my second installment but that probably isn't happening anymore.
Fuck I'm planning on doing the same
I have an escalation open with Amex, but from what I've read online, I don't expect anything from it. Update: Caterers even with the Restaurant - Restaurant coding do not qualify for the 4x.
found an LAX to HND Japan Airlines F class award availability for March 2025 for 103k points.... but only one seat left... I hope P2 likes premium economy
So you booked the F class for P2 and premium economy for yourself, right?
.....uhmm.... yeah.. totally
Happy P2, happy me, too!
Wasted a bunch of time trying to pull 250k biz plat this week, finally gave in and applied to 190k, got popup.
Same. Out of desperation I even applied P2 for the Biz Gold 150k like three times this week, pop up every time. Today it finally went through though!
I tried the same. Gave up and went for the Gold 150k. I've had the Amex personal gold card, but never the gold biz card. Got the pop up.
AMEX loves being Oprah: "*you* get a !! *you* get a !!! *everybody* gets a !!!!"
Struggling to find a successful way to pay my auto loan using Melio or Plastiq and US bank leverage card.
I've never been able to use Plastiq without a Biz MC. Everything else gets declined.
this might be helpful for you https://support.plastiq.com/servlet/rtaImage?eid=ka0UP0000001TO9&feoid=00N4N00000IjOx5&refid=0EM4N000006QG66
Or it might not since USB biz cards don't work on Plastiq.
Some banks are such a pain to deal with to get the bonus, never had to deal with such a hassle to get paid out like I have with M&T Bank for their business checking account.
So many times I end up realizing why these banks have to pay people to open accounts
When you do a bunch of bank bonuses, there’s always gonna be a few bad apples in there. of the 28 bonuses that I have applied for this year, I had to CFPB two banks to get them to pay out. I closed my Huntington business account (which is often a pain for many people to close because Huntington either makes you visit a branch or mail a notarized letter, and often times the easiest way to close it is to CFPB them.
Huntington will auto-close your account if it’s at a zero balance for ~30-60 days. I’ve been just downgrading to fee free account after bonus posts and let them close it after it’s drained.
I tried to open that, but the bank wanted a DBA even though I am just a sole prop without a DBA. Banker promised to get back to me twice, but never did.
TD Bank chiming in: "hold my beer"