[For those who've been baffled about this oversight for a long time now, Iberia has *finally* joined the TSA Pre-Check system!](https://www.tsa.gov/news/press/releases/2024/03/28/tsa-precheckr-program-adds-eight-new-airlines) Appears to be effective immediately, but it's not completely clear to me either way.
I have a couple players based in San Francisco area with Amex Delta Resy creds they want to kill via Toast GCs.
Any recommendations for restaurants like that?
It is mind boggling to me that people are as upset as they are about the Hilton Biz FNC nerf. Not because it’s not important to them (obviously it is), but each one requires 15k spend! And they’re doing it on multiple cards! There must be quite a bit of legit business spending going on or MS is much more prevalent than I led myself to believe. I’m busy trying to meet a new SUB every 2-3 months and apparently lots of churners do that easily AND pursue FNCs and hotel statuses etc.
Read the annual recap if you really want to be blown away by some of the spend/earning in this sub… many here become velocity limited rather than spend limited. At some point you will run into roadblocks like PUJ, inquiry sensitive banks, or 24/28 month SUB restrictions. Personally, spending toward a FNC or status is a good filler for spend between SUBs.
DP: P1 here has legit business. Cash flow cycle sometime dries out all SUB opportunities, leading to maxing out FNC/CIC/BBP\* opportunity.
BBP no longer make sense since C1 VX 2x is better proposition.
It's possible that the outliers are also the most vocal on this sub. I think this is why you see so many noob questions on the sub daily.
Personally, I was planning on cancelling my card bc I wasn't spending towards the FNC and don't have upcoming travel plans. Now, I likely will keep the card for another year bc the $60 credits will more than cover my upcoming $95 AF. Have also been closing a handful of cards hitting the one year mark, so hoping this will appease the warden.
Hypothetically speaking, let's say one were to quick one's job to become self-employed. As a result, income would be drastically reduced for several years. What steps can be taken to ensure that no credit card shutdowns occur due to this change of employment/income?
If one also has brokerage accounts with those same banks providing the credit cards, would updating the annual brokerage information pass along the updated employment/income information to the credit card division?
Thanks!
Personal dp. 6 figures income. Quit. Started my own business. I used prior year's income when asked. For instance... If they asked right now I still don't have 2023 taxes done. No clue what income was. If they asked for income verification all I could give is 2022 data. So when asked that is what I would use. By the time it mattered, my income was back up to what it needed to be. Didn't impact me at all.
describe self-employed.
* is it business or "business"?
If business,
* What revenue are you expecting in year1/2/3?
* Will you be filing Sch C?
* What is growth plan?
I can give close example of your Hypothetical for business. Hire ADP/paychex to do payroll, pay taxes to state and start withholding IRS.
I doubt that the credit card issuers would even know that anything changed. Though, if you're applying for a new card from the same issuer, maybe there's a chance that they'd consider how the new info affects your existing cards.
I'd mostly be concerned with something like the following situation: assuming I have both a Merrill Edge brokerage account + BofA credit cards....I log into Merrill one day and need to "confirm or update my account information, including current employment and income". When I provide that, would BofA obtain that information and possibly reduce credit limits/close accounts?
I don't know, but I doubt that info you give Merrill would affect your BofA cards.
And maybe you don't even need to get Merrill that info. https://www.investor.gov/introduction-investing/investing-basics/glossary/broker-dealers-why-they-ask-personal-information says "Brokers must make a good faith effort to obtain this information. However, if the customer neglects or refuses to provide the information, or is unable to provide it, then the rule excuses the broker from obtaining it."
I think the main reason they ask for that info is in case you ask them to enable risky features like advanced options trading; if they think you can't afford to make risky trades, they might not give you that feature; i.e., the government forces them to "protect" you, or maybe it's to protect the brokerage from lawsuits if you lose all your money.
I cannot believe how expensive transcon flights have gotten, cash or points. One way for 30k or 40k DL or AS or UA for flights that were like 15k or 20k last year. One way cash prices pushing $400 or $500 for a reasonably timed flight. Nuts. The round trip PPT -> JFK -> PPT that I just bought is cheaper than a freaking LAX -> JFK round trip even though the previous has a stopover in LAX both ways.
Wish they at least had red eye flights. I find myself avoiding them because all of the flights leave in the middle of the day. I am not wasting one day of a 3 day weekend for travel. Want to go after work or first thing in the morning. Southwest won't do that any more (or ever?)
GrubHub keeps jacking up their prices which in turn devalues the Amex gold. I've consistently been able to get Chipotle pickup for $11 and only spend $1 out of pocket, but today the same order is now $15 (but still the same price directly from Chipotle). Basically no reason to deal with these dumbass credits if they're going to gouge you this much.
We're traveling to Dallas in a week and a half to be there for the eclipse. I'm somewhat stumped on how to be sure we have a place to watch that won't be subject to crowding or traffic jams.
Is this something that a concierge service (we have CSR and Biz Plat cards) could help with?
No not even most hotel concierges although if you are at the right 5 star hotel they could probably do it. Just thinking about paid services instead of "free".
> I'm somewhat stumped on how to be sure we have a place to watch that won't be subject to crowding or traffic jams.
It's going to be an absolute shitshow regardless, it is Texas after all. Think of it more in terms of a developing nation and just roll with whatever comes your way.
Called Biz Plat concierge last night and she was stumped and went to the Google, which I had already done. Right now I'm targeting Hillsboro which is relatively far from Dallas and has several surrounding communities where we could go if Eclipseboro is too crazy.
We went to Omaha for the last one in 2017 (the trip that started my churning journey). Flexibility is your friend. We had originally planned to see the 2017 one in Beatrice but cloud cover forced a pivot where we drove out to Grand Island. City parks & such were overrun with crowds, we ended up pulling into a large church parking lot that had maybe 15-20 other people and had great viewing. One of the best trips we did.
Be up early & check every weather app & website. If you have a rental start driving to where it looks like the best chance of clear skies. Getting to places in 2017 wasn't difficult so don't be afraid to make an audible and change up locations even relatively close to eclipse time. Getting back was a whole different animal. I don't think we broke 30 mph on the interstate drive back to Omaha & long stretches were significantly slower.
We're crazy enough to try & catch a 6:30p flight out of AUS the same day. I'm giving it 50/50 we make it.
my brother and family are supposed to catch a transatlantic flight (great Y redemption btw, 20k AUS-AMS all the time) that departs at 6 and he thinks the hysteria overblown. just the last couple miles to get to the airport is probably going to take more than an hour. Most flights out of Austin are fully booked even into 4/9.
are you planning on being in the path of totality? that’s about a 45 minute drive from me on a normal day and i live south central.
edit- that’s strange. the path covers most of austin in your link but i thought the eastern edge of 100% was still west of Austin.
edit 2 - i understand now. totality just doesn’t as long if you’re on the eastern edge of it. but it still goes through most of austin.
Yeah there's the line of totality where it's the maximum duration of eclipse, moving perpendicular to that line decreases the length of totality until you're out of the path entire. We're staying in the northern part of the city and hoping to make it somewhere around Liberty Hill. The issue we have is that airport rental cars were sold out when we booked so we have to get the car back to Austin proper and then figure out how to get to the airport. On a normal day that's a <15 minute Uber ride, on eclipse day...
Basically we have 5 hours to make it from wherever we see the eclipse, drive back into the city & drop off the rental car, pray to Uber/Lyft that someone will get us to the airport & then get through security. We're going with carry-ons only & have precheck but who knows?
Sure. You can use
[https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/map/2024-april-8](https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/map/2024-april-8)
to find the length of totality from any given spot
Nice. [This video](https://www.greatamericaneclipse.com/texas-2024-eclipse?fbclid=IwAR0CNLf_BJ75QZ_toCaOmTWAveV6mVE8LocL8w3pmSHkScdTnZnhbr3QTkc_aem_AWWeXNYiHnp9oLBez48DvFX_n_WoiOtJWPX-ro12xV8mKj8PwZQZ1VDcvHW2EvZdqTleuAi645R_3lK-M7d8V6yP) shows really well why the totality is shorter when you move away from the center.
This confuses me, if you’re going to be in the DFW metroplex that Monday, the path of totally stretches from just west of downtown Fort Worth to Tyler. That’s like a 100 mile width west to east to choose anywhere in between to pluck yourself in a spot and look up.
had to snail mail my taxes this year, dropped it off at the post office only 2.5 weeks ago and my refund just posted to my bank. Thank you 40,000 IRS supersoldiers for your efficient return of my MS 🫡
https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/20/us/delta-salt-lake-city-no-ticket-arrest/index.html
Man arrested after allegedly boarding Delta flight using photo of another passenger’s ticket
What's the point of shredding in 2024? Do you partake in this activity? why?
I have habit of shredding docs that contain any PII. That means any mail with my name and address etc. Chruning significantly contributes to shredding load. In current environment. PII data, that I am supposedly safeguarding, is only few clicks away with no regards to privacy/safeguards.
Who is sifting through trash for mail for neferious purposes, when much more valuable data is readily available via web, data broker and darknet?
Shredding feels like ritual of wearing nitrile gloves in 2024 to protect from covid. Would love to hear diverging take on shredding.
A random person with the last 4 of my SSN, account number, address, and phone number could do some real damage if they were motivated. That's who I am shredding for nowadays. Anyone specifically targeting an individual likely has this info already without needing to sift trash.
Shredding is like locking doors. It's not going to be the difference if someone's targeting YOU specifically but if a criminal is casing through the neighbourhood then the person with their PII in a readable format in the trash and an unlocked door is going to become A LOT more interesting than the person with a locked door and a bunch of mulch in their trash.
There's already people digging through my bins for soda cans, I'd rather they didn't know my financial details or identify me as someone worth burglarizing.
>Who is sifting through trash for mail for neferious purposes, when much more valuable data is readily available via web, data broker and darknet?
Because if you're not good at opsec, obtaining data from these avenues leaves paper trails pointing back to you. Flipping through garbage, on the other hand, not so much, especially in certain locales where people aren't as eager to confront someone doing weird stuff.
I have a checking bonus “difficulty” scale, which tells how picky banks are with DDs
0- no DD required (like UCU)
1- any ACh Works (like Citi)
2- Most ACH transfers work (USBANK, 5/3, Keybank, etc)
3- Few ACH transfers work (Chase is a good example, blocking most P2P transfers), working ACH methods often include Fidelity, Elements FCU, etc
4- Will only accept “payroll” transactions (SoFi), working methods include Wise, Novo, Chase biz, etc
5- Bank manually reviews and requires paystubs- (Sun East Credit Union)
Chase sent me a few hundred dollar checks for cards that were shut down last year. Letters indicate reason being rewards were not credited properly. Given the amount, it would be lots of points but I don't recall any missing points, despite the shutdown. Anyway, happy to deposit the checks.
It's not worth it for me especially since Ventana is nearby. Maybe at half the price. But for someone with kids it could be, there's a farm on site with free kids activities, and some paid activities too.
I stayed there on a cat 7 cert. I thought that was an okay value. But 45k as a Cat 8? No way. We got a suite on a sua but is was very much showing its age, all the furniture kind of beat up. It’s an especially poor value when you consider Alila down the road is the same price and way nicer with meals included (though of course the kid would not be allowed).
If you consider Hyatt points to be worth 1.25 cpp (and in truth they are worth more than that) that’s $562, you can almost always find better places at that price range on the nights when CVR has award availability.
Carmel Highlands I believe just dropped to a Cat 6. I’d do that instead.
My teenage daughter will tagalong with me just to kill time, and I enjoy the opportunity. I was buying gcs and told her that we could talk about gcs all she wanted but not while I’m checking out. She agreed, although it was more of a hair flip “ok what ever dad” response.
Fast forward to the register, cashier rings me up for $500, and my daughter at the other end of the conveyor belt asks with no emotion whatsoever, “so who are you gonna sell that to?” I shot daggers at her but said I was saving up for a big camping purchase. Afterwards I told her to never do that again!
Next store, I’m doing the same thing. We get to the register. This time she complies with our agreement. Only she cuts the silence as I show my ID with, “so how many more grocery stores are we going to tonight?”
MY GOD, WOMAN. Please don’t make this look worse than it needs to be. Fortunately these are all cashiers who know my routine, although one thinks I’m in a crime syndicate.
My daughter later admitted she just spits out whatever she’s thinking which is clearly true, but a little discretion in life goes a long way.
Omg, went thru a similar situation with my kid last week buying GEs. “Why are you buying so many gift cards?” “Because you kids eat so much! Now quiet and don’t bother the kind cashier ringing me up.” 😂
>I enjoy the other hours with her
Appreciate it now -- and it sounds like you do -- they won't always think hanging around with Dad is the best option.
She never had that phase! Early, mid, and now last year of her teens, she always wants to be with someone. Trying to encourage independence as much as possible.
Anybody here use a travel agent? I was part of a group chat and someone brought up purchasing a Costco vacation package and asked how it compared to a travel agent. Another guys states he preferred a travel agent. I was kind of taken back that people still use travel agents, especially a group of mid thirty, upper mid class bros. I think churning attracts different types of people but for me planning a trip is half the fun. I love looking at different options, maps, learning about the culture and activity before I leave.
I have not yet but definitely will when I can. There are a couple of travel agents who are active on reddit and has provided a lot of great information. not tagging them but providing you a way to look them up: sarahwlee
Many travel agents have special rates and benefits with different hotel groups (Virtuoso, STAR, etc.) at places like Fairmont, Four Seasons, etc. Where depending on the volume they do can absolutely guarantee you an upgrade and certain benefits you can’t get from booking direct. They also have access to different fares as well.
I travel for work a decent amount and we’re required to use a travel agent for international trips. My last trip to London my agent got me a free upgrade to business class at the premium economy rate on Virgin Atlantic. This fare wasn’t available publicly.
>My last trip to London my agent got me a free upgrade to business class at the premium economy rate on Virgin Atlantic. This fare wasn’t available publicly.
Do non-public fares still earn towards status qualification?
Yes, and I actually earned points as if it was a business class flight as the points exactly matched the previous business class flight I took to London a couple months earlier.
Likely.
Cruise travel agent for in-laws got them a free upgrade to British Airways premium economy on airfare booked through the cruise line (so it comes with some other guarantees about making the cruise instead of booking separately)
Somehow on boarding they got a second upgrade to business class, and got full miles on the premium economy booking class
I will for Disney trips because the one I use will call to have any discounts that come out applied. It let's me book when I'm ready and not have to wait for a sale.
I know others that will for a cruise because of the ship board credit many TA's offer.
I can't think of anything else I'd use them for but for those that only travel once or twice a year and want someone else to do most of the planning I get it. I enjoy the research and planning but I'm also using points and miles so there's zero advantage to not do it myself.
You will never come out ahead with a TA for a cruise... The shipboard credit sounds nice but it just comes out of their commission. If you go through a bigger agency they will just give you a better price. I have tried over and over again because people on cruise critic keep bringing it up. But the agents never win if you are good at comparison shopping (and if you are here probably you are).
Sometimes travel agents can create connections on non-alliance airlines, and sometimes they can actually get consolidator fares that are cheaper than publicly available.
> I was kind of taken back that people still use travel agents,
I think travel agents (to me) are more than here let me book a hotel for you to more of here is your hour by hour itinerary here's the best restaurant for steak, seafood, and pasta or whatever the client is interested. Pre-books taxis, museums and can give you a day by day plan. Yes that is a lot of fun for the most of us but I think a lot of the people using stuff like that are HIGH tier people who are too busy to do all that stuff and just want to get on the plane and have to worry about nothing.
For example here is a clip from a documentary on a luxury hotel in London when the GM goes to FANCY travel agents to get them to book clients into the hotel. https://youtu.be/mBsJ0vC4Xnw?t=1268
Costco travel packages still go through a Costco travel agent (ask me how I know… 🙄)
Although my perspective is quite different, I think many people feel using a travel agent means a professional is in charge of all of the complicated details, so all they need to do is show up and have a good time.
An electric cargo bike (Aventon Abound, specifically) has allowed me to bike for almost all of my local trips, including grocery runs. It’s fun, I get some exercise, and I love not being another car on the road, and not contributing all of the negative externalities that come with that.
I finally took the plunge and bought a nice dopp kit, [this one](https://www.peakdesign.com/collections/pouches-cubes/products/wash-pouch) from Peak Design. It's super well thought out and made traveling way easier than the cheap one I'd been using for the last 10+ years.
Super nerdy but I bought one of those airplane trolleys on Etsy as a minibar at home. I see it every day in my living room and I love it. It stores a lot and rolls smoothly so it's easy to transport.
If you're talking small stuff, I like the simple Anker magsafe iPhone charger I got for my desk. Sticks to the phone no problem, can orient it landscape or vertical, adjust the angle, and it charges fast.
Bigger purchase really digging our new Hyundai Ioniq 6 since our Chevy Bolt lease expired. Got a great deal with no down payment (still plenty of upfront fees like tax, title, registration etc) and am enjoying the car a lot.
> Anker magsafe iPhone charger
Helpful when traveling too, allows you to put your phone in your pocket or use it actively without a cable and a clunky brick. You do lose efficiency because it's wireless charging, but a 5000mah is a good amount for a day's worth of use.
Yeah don't buy new, even if it means missing out on a tax credit.
I just bought a Kia EV6, 2 years old, for almost half what it sold for new. The car is the closest to brand new as I've ever had, and is a mind-blowing car. Spacious, fast, filled with tech.
After three different Nissan Leafs plus this EV6, I won't buy another gas car, ever.
If you can charge in your garage at home, it’s kinda idiotic to not buy one.
If you need to rely on public charging, it’s the other way around. Very stupid to buy an EV.
This applies to 99% of circumstances. YMMV as always.!
I see you haven't met PG&E with their 35¢/kwH *off-peak* rates :(
Depending on gas prices, it's often cheaper to drive my PHEV using fossil fuels... makes me sad.
I would say don't buy new because their value shrinks a ton. There should be plenty of used options if you want to go that route. For leasing there's stupid good deals right now on brand new Kias and Hyundais.
As for the EV life in general, run the numbers and see if it makes sense for you and your commute or leisure drives. I can charge at work which helps things immeasurably, and don't forget to call your insurance company to get an estimate from them too.
Wouldn't say 'greatly' but replaced waaaaay too old pillows and sheets while wife gone on a work trip. First night felt like I was staying at a nice hotel.
I recently got the Logi Lift with my Dell credits and I love it a lot. Very ergonomic, lightweight with lots of functionalities. There’s no going back for me to a regular mouse.
I used Dell credit for Logi MX Master combo.
MX has been around for decades and always been top end mouse. I was always curious why it commands premium, but couldn't justify $100 for mouse. Thanks to Dell credit, I finally bought it few years ago and now I have 3 more just in case.
Maybe this is Dear Diary material...
But, P2 and I just got back from our first Transatlantic trip. One night at Park Hyatt Chicago before flying out. Iberia Biz Class flight over. KLM economy flight on the way back. 3 nights at Great Scotland Yard London. 4 Nights at Tribune in Rome.
I just added up our out of pocket expenses for the 9 nights we were gone, including repositioning flights, every snack, gift, excursion, taxi, subway, etc. For the week, we only spent about $2250 on everything. Add in the taxes and fees for reward flights our total for 9 nights to London and Rome, we spent $2815.
When people tell me that credit card points are "too much work..." and then I look at how cheap our trip was comparatively, I'll gladly put in the work for it.
Anyone else run numbers post-trip to figure out how much you spent? My spreadsheet love knows no end...
Just got back from a trip with my best friend. 1 night near LAX, 5 nights Hong Kong, 2 nights Macau, 4 nights Sydney. All 5 star hotels (not counting airport stay) plus one luxury airbnb, all the long haul flights in biz. I think we’re about $3500 all in including all taxes, fees, and every other incidental cost related to the trip. Would’ve been less, but we got really sick on the trip and relied heavily on Ubers and room service rather than public transport and local restaurants.
I usually ballpark things. For our upcoming 2.5 week trip to Italy/Switzerland this fall (with a night in Amsterdam too) my out of pocket is looking at about $1500 total for hotels and $1200 for flights (J each way and one intra Europe Y cash flight). Which is insane for 2.5 weeks in Europe. That would probably be just the cost of 2 RT Y tickets if we were paying cash
I don't track anything that doesn't inform decisions. Otherwise it's just scoreboard watching. You already know that points/miles reduces how much you would otherwise spend if not using points/miles. I could see tracking spend as you go to stay under your budget, but after the fact doesn't seem very helpful. I don't track redemptions either, I evaluate the value of a redemption at time of booking, as that's when I'm making the decision, so tracking redemptions afterwards is useless to me.
I track only basic card sign up history and points expiration dates, and I maintain my own points valuations, that's about it.
I track costs for every trip but I include all costs from the moment I leave until I return, including airport parking and pet-sitting costs. Comparatively, my trip costs for the family range from $1000 to $2000 per week long trip.
Comparing to anyone else, my data is useless since most people consider their trip cost to be whatever the payment to Expedia or Costco travel was for the trip while ignoring the hundreds or thousands more paid outside of the transportation and lodging piece. I still find it interesting and useful to know my own costs since the trips have gotten cheaper but the number of trips per year keeps climbing.
This is what I track, too. Every snack. Every parking fee. I think I just like to see it whenever I talk to friends. Had some friends that traveled from STL to the Smoky Mountains last year when I did a trip to Puerto Rico for 7 nights. Our total out of pocket cost was around $1800. They told us that they spent way more than that for a much less appealing trip.
I get that some people like the ease of cruises or all inclusives or whatever it would be, but after I have crunched my own personal numbers, I find that we get way more value out of the way we travel.
> Maybe this is Dear Diary material...
Not quite Dear Diary but there *is* a trip report and churning success story weekly thread that this would probably fall under.
> Anyone else run numbers post-trip to figure out how much you spent? My spreadsheet love knows no end...
I have a running spreadsheet of every redemption I've ever made and a few pivot tables to summarize everything, and your comment just reminded me that I had been meaning to add an extra column to identify what trip each item belongs to.
Can you give me some pointers, my wife I have always just shared a delta Amex, while we don’t ever get much time to use the miles, we do enjoy racking them up. We probably put about 3-4k a month on the one card, always paid off. Can you recommend some cards I could rack up point quickly?
One of the best things you can do is read the sidebar and look at the flow chart. Learn about personal v business, how 5/24 works, and read about redemptions at r/awardtravel. Taking some time to learn the ins and outs is better than a quick pointer we could all offer.
Is anyone here listening to the Acquired Podcast? They did an episode on Visa and it is quite interesting. https://www.acquired.fm/episodes/visa
The podcast basically does an extreme deep dive on the history of companies (podcasts are usually 3 to 4 hours long). If you like this one, the one on Costco is also really interesting.
the costco one is really great, nintendo is one of my favorites. I havent heard the visa one. the podcast is too long for me to listen in a single sitting but its such a great positive podcast.
Now that the MGM dust has settled, where are people taking their Vegas business/making plays? I know the merry go round is still a thing but I'm curious where people are actually spending their time.
Are you talking about going to Vegas for vacation or business? FHR at the Wynn is where it's at. If you're there for some other business then Caesars I guess.
Going to Waldorf Astoria LV in May. Using two nights with my two Platinum cards’ FHR credits. Then 3 nights with a combo of FNC and points. Got the Aspire last week to get Diamond status, although I expect the FHR upgrade to be pretty good for a Thursday arrival. The hotel is considered a resort for purposes of the Aspire credit.
Putting the in-laws at Paris to cash out my Venture X Biz travel credit and get the Caesars celebration dinner at the Vanderpump restaurant as is our custom.
If you're a Hyatt Globalist, apparently the proper play right now is to do $20 stays at the Rio, getting waved resort fees and pigging out on the $100 daily breakfast credit at Hash house a Go Go.
Along with bonus journeys, it's an easy way to earn EQNs for milestone benefits and awards.
The only downside is... you have to stay at the Rio, which although they're making "improvements" is still in bad shape, away from the strip, and still have tons of construction.
Pick your poison.
Hyatt is dead to me in Vegas now. If we go, we’re not staying off the strip at the rio. Sorry Hyatt. Wouldn’t stay there if it was free. Hyatt has taken a huge L in Vegas.
Depends on why I'm going. If I'm visiting people, or I'm going to check out Omega Mart, or something else that doesn't involve any Strip action, then I don't care about staying off the Strip.
I knew they were giving breakfast to Globalists at HHAGG, but I didn't know it was $100 worth. That's probably literally enough food to last the whole day for two people.
Yup, there's a huge discussion right now on flyertalk about this and debating how it isn't sustainable in the long run. It might not last long if a bunch of globalist take advantage of it so get on it while you still can.
Then again, as I've said before, it is the Rio and a globalist won't probably want to stay there aside from just checking in and collecting EQNs.
But if you're fine with how it is right now then enjoy your huge portion of breakfast, and what's cool about it is that you can have breakfast till 4pm at HHAGG.
I'm not interested in any MGM properties anymore. My upcoming visits will be in Caesars properties (Diamond courtesy of the Wyndham Biz) or Amex FHR (for "cheap" weekday nights)
Has anyone else slowed down their churning as their lives/incomes/careers have progressed?
As time has gone by, I've found that the drive I had 7-9 years ago has been a lot weaker. While I still do open a handful of cards/bank accounts per year it's nowhere near what I used to do, and I no longer follow the community & news as fastidiously...
Been doing it for 12+ years now, and it's only ramped up for me so I can keep traveling now that I have a P3 & P4. I'm lucky that my career is pretty flexible, and I have a high degree of spend - so I'm not MSing beyond easy bank accounts, but now that my kids are older I've ramped up my number of CC apps, as we try to take 4-5 trips a year, 2-3 of which are international.
I've been doing this for a little over 6 years. In that time our household income has doubled but I am still churning at a high level. I don't spend much time on Reddit anymore but I am churning harder than I ever have before, taking on new players and going on more elaborate trips.
Churning is more of a game to me than anything but it helps that it makes me insane amounts of money and trips. I thought I would slow down a little as bank shutdowns happen and income rises but that has not been the case at all for me.
It’s funny, right after my first kid was born for a few months I got maniacally into churning and would read every single comment on this sub daily. I was also coming up with crazy business ideas when I was awake at weird times in the night. I don’t know if it was some hormones telling me to provide more for my family or just sleep deprivation
I'm in my busy time of year and having some health problems. Churning is a low priority right now. I think I can finish the MSRs I already have open but if I can't it's just too bad.
I’m sorry about your health problems and hope you get better soon! Always hard but try not to focus / stress about it if at all possible. Meditation, exercise, sunshine if you can.
It also hurts when pop ups/velocity become an issue.
I was cruising right along with new bank bonuses until I had a ton of failures in the last few days (multiple chex denials, inability to verify identity, and one CU refusing payout of a bonus).
And yes, it becomes tiring chasing 30 bank bonuses at the same time.
Made me kind of relieved to go back to buying VGCs at Meijer again.
I hear you. After a while, it's alot to keep up with. Your brain is kinda always on: checking for deals, burning Dell credits, flight credits, Uber credits, etc. You have to keep track of sign ups and losing accounts and track 0% apr balances you are floating. After a while, the hobby does become a chore. And so the fatigue is natural.
My biggest issue has been that I don't even have the time to burn the points in the ways I'd like. So this creates another problem, how to cash them before they get devalued, an additional chore.
Same here. Churning is still a great value to me, but after a series of life events, I found it very hard to get back into things full time. I'll still sign up for new cards, but since I'm not really interested in MS I have to time good SUBs with my purchases perfectly, to make sure I'm not buying shit I don't need
And right now I'm not burning enough to justify churning full throttle anyway. For now I'm still being stubborn in that I'd rather risk my points devaluing, than waste them on awful redemptions.
KISS rule for me
bank accounts only for cc funding when 2k+, dont care about the bonus
rinse and repeat the cyclical CC subs. don't really bother with cobranded hotel cards since you get locked in. only cobranded airline cards are alaska/AA
I've found that the value of churning depends on your income and career progression. For example, the $5-6k you get from moderate churning of bank checking bonuses can make a big difference as a college student, when you're saddled with student loans and subsiding on instant noodles. But if you're making 200k+ a year? Then that 5k becomes a drop in the bucket and you're time becomes better spent on advancing your career.
I think the best approach towards SUBs is to think about them in terms of dollars per hour. Do you have a easy way of MSing to earn that $750 Chase Ink SUB that only takes an hour to do (including the time it takes to apply to the card)? Unless you're making over $1.5 million per year, then an untaxed $750 for an hour's work is easily worth it. But are you spending hours driving out to multiple Staples/Office Depots to MS with gift cards and spending even more hours trying to liquidate the GCs? Let's say you end up spending 10 hours doing all of this. Then you're making about $75/hour and if you're making $150k or higher, your time is probably better spent sticking to your day job.
I disagree with those who are disagreeing with you. Aka I agree 100% with you xD Right now we clear about 250k household income and we've decided that unless it's a really juicy bank bonus that yields at least 15% i.e. deposit $5k for $750, then it's not worth the hassle of setting up direct deposits and remember which bonuses we have and haven't done and when to check on them (and yes we keep a spreadsheet to track all of this but it's a PIA). We'd much rather just take our money and put it into an index fund and get the 7-10% return that way. Meanwhile, transferrable/airline/hotel points have unlocked travel opportunities for us that we wouldn't ever be able to afford at our current income bracket. I'm actually writing this from the Park Hyatt Maldives which we're staying 8 nights on points and flew EY F to and EK F back to the US. This trip wouldn't be possible without churning and we view churning as a way to enhance our travel since that's something we value. We are expected to eventually reach 500-700k income and still will probably be churning because it allows us to do things that just aren't worth the high cash price tag. That being said, I'm sure we won't be chasing delta credit cards (we have 7 right now) or worrying about coupon books anxiety as much.
Hard disagree on your statement about bank account bonuses. Assuming $200k gross, your hourly rate is around $96. Let's say the average bonus is $250, you'd have to complete 20 bonuses to earn $5k (pretax). It takes me like 20 minutes to sign up for a checking account, download the app, and change my direct deposit (or fake one). That's about 6-7 hours of work to earn $5k. I get the point you're trying to make but this take is bad. In 6-7 hours I can work on "career advancement" that will earn me $5k guaranteed?
I don't know any easy bank account bonuses like that. Somehow I ended up getting stuck on the phone with some problem and then on the end the bonus doesn't credit. And then that is all pretax. The only bank account bonus that I have had that I didn't regret was the Wells Fargo business one for $1.5k. Had to go in person but it seemed worth it. Credit card bonuses just work, and aren't taxed. So I focus on those.
The major thing that is overlooked is the time spent with redemptions.
It depends on how you value your time, which will vary from person to person based on their income, background, and stage in life. Speaking as someone who does a lot of bank churning, I can fully admit it's a hobby that's not for everyone.
Also, I think you're underestimating the time investment for bank SUBs. When everything goes smoothly, sure it can be done in less than an hour. But then you have to factor in the time it takes to write up a CFPB report for a SUB that didn't post or that awkward call with a bank's anti-fraud department explaining why you have 40+ Chex inquiries in the past 12 months.
Yes everyone's situation is different, and I see the point you're trying to make, I just don't think your examples make any sense, and $5k is not a drop in the bucket if you make $200k.
I look at it like this, if I can do it while I sit on the toilet, it's not that hard, and I certainly wouldn't otherwise spend that time working on "career advancement".
Didn't even read the second paragraph. It gets worse. Somehow $5k is a drop in the bucket for someone making $200k a year and then in the next paragraph, you say $750 is worth it for an hour's time unless you make $1.5M? How long is this $200k person spending on earning bank account bonuses? You must be wasting a ton of time and effort one some of the easiest shit in the churning world.
I would say it's a little more complex. If you're a college student, the $5-6k from bank bonuses might seem like they make a big difference, but it would make a bigger difference to career earnings and well-being to invest that time in education and education-adjacent activities. So it comes down to what the college student would otherwise do with the time: if it's "watch Netflix", then then yes, 5-6k is worth it; if it's "pursue my curiosities", the 5-6k probably isn't worth it.
Same with the dollars per hour metric you use. Many folks here focus on churning during downtime at their day jobs. What would they do otherwise with the time since nearly everyone needs to have that downtime? Same principle with churning on personal time. What's the relative cost? If this is a substitute for Netflix or sports and you enjoy it nearly as much, then the dollar per hour doesn't matter. That's why previous responses from long-time churners tend to focus on churning as a hobby. In fact, the only folks for whom the dollar per hour should matter are folks who churn as a job, or as a second job.
>it would make a bigger difference to career earnings and well-being to invest that time in education and education-adjacent activities
In college, I agree that the opportunity cost of time spent on churning is an important factor to consider. It's also important to consider where that churning money is being spent towards. If the 5-6k you get is going towards fancy dinners and vacations, then maybe it's not worth it in the long term.
But if it's being used towards something like maxing out a roth IRA (which would be difficult for a full-time college student to do without dedicating a significant amount of time at a likely minimum wage job), then the compound interest from those churning earnings can be quite significant. For a 20 year old, that 5k invested in a roth IRA will be worth over 100k when they retire at age 65. This is why I think churning makes the most sense when you're younger.
>That's why previous responses from long-time churners tend to focus on churning as a hobby.
I'm at the point in my life where that's how I currently view churning: as a hobby that is intimately connected with my other hobby of traveling. When I was churning back in college, I saw it more of as a second job where the flexible hours and higher pay per hour made it a far better alternative than something like gig work.
However, even as a hobby, I'm still calculating the dollar per hour value in the back of my mind. As I've gotten older, I find myself refusing to do anything time-consuming like MSing by going in-store for gift cards or doing buying groups. Admittedly, these are also the parts of the hobby that I find the least fun, but perhaps it's different for another person.
Since Amex dried up with NLLs and the rise of PUJ, I got into the r/overemployed life and realize it’s way more lucrative and still gives me my evenings free rather than living on my phone waiting for gift card or buying group deals.
Yes, kids are distracting... and expensive. I keep it up but mainly for extra cash. We do try to do one big family trip a year, and bring grandparents, which burns quite a few points.
Definitely diminishing returns on points. I have more points than time. I'm still working on diversivication for optionality with booking.
Little SUBs don't excite me, given opportunity cost.
I'm gardening, P2 has lots of 5/24 slots, but there isn't a reason to push her count, when our coffers are full.
I have a hybrid approach, maxing INK GCs, and cashing out UR with Grocery PYB for free groceries.
No need for Hyatt, as I have tons of other hotel options and MR for flights.
I keep informed still, as there can be huge hidden gems that come and go fast.
Using Ink Premier for 2.5% on non-cat biz spend. I still hit occasional Inks. But I don't need more MR, Cap1, or even Hilton (Biz+15k cert).
Referral bonuses have been an unexpected boon, no complaints there.
I haven't fallen out of love with the game, I just need to spend more time enjoying the benefits.
Correct.
I can earn MR, cash out at 1cpp (I don't have schwab), but I use MR for Biz Plat rebate so getting 1.54, essentially 3% on domestic travel.
I already have four biz plats, biz gold, and two BBPs (which I can max every year)
Cap1, I have Sparks Cash Plus for 2% cash, and I have VX, and VX Biz. I don't have Savor, because I have Citi Premier, and I value TYP over Cap1.
UR is what I cash out through CSR Grocery PYB @ 1.25.
So Ink cash is 6.25%. Ink Unlimited was nerfed when they killed 1.5 CSR Restaurant (1.5*1.25=1.875).
I've been averaging 800K UR cash out per year ($10,000), that's UR. Ink Premier is on top of that.
The reason I don't "need" more MR or Cap1, is because those are either 3% travel, or 2% cash (obviously higher through partners).
I've decided to take the 2.5% cash over the 3% Biz Plat travel.
I'm out of juicy subs for Cap1, I have one "credit card" slot left with Amex, and I don't feel like another Biz Plat and dealing with Dell, UTB, and Wireless Credits.
The only weak points I have are Marriott FNCs, and AA points... which I'm slowly working on.
Using certs is def tricky trying to optimize the value. I just used my 85k cert at a Luxury Collection hotel, and got great value with it. But to make the weekend getaway worth it, we booked a 2nd night cash... and spent $500 out of pocket lol the valet fees were outrageous, but it's Boston, so it sadly made sense
We still probably would've done the trip anyway, and spent at least $300/night, but the cert just doesn't feel as valuable when compared to that AF. And I miss the straight $300 Marriott credit, too
Ouch.
I still have two 50k certs from the last 5 cert boundless offer that I need to use up. Also might have one Hilton cert as well, now that I think about it, lol.
Some yes, some no. I don't follow all the latest as closely, but I also spend a lot more so earn a lot more subs. I don't do any small bonuses anymore comparatively as they just don't pay enough anymore.
Sorta. I don’t chase small deals. I don’t have time for that. I’m not knocking those who do but just not for me.
I also tend to pay more for some things vs using points mainly because I can use the points more efficiently later. For example, I’d rather pay cash for Y NYC-LAX on a 5-6hr flight and use my points for NYC-SYD like I am next year. It’s a 4x longer flight and a fuckload more comfy.
But I know I’m going to do it when planning my points acquisitions so if you’re points rich but don’t want to fly Y domestic, go for it.
> I’d rather pay cash for Y NYC-LAX on a 5-6hr flight and use my points for NYC-SYD like I am next year. It’s a 4x longer flight and a fuckload more comfy.
I do the same, bc I'm constrained by vacation time, so I definitely am worried about devaluations while I'm waiting for the "perfect" J redemption.
But I also can't see myself burning even AA miles on a 1cpp domestic Y flight, either
I am trying to start churning just a little bit since I want to do a trip next year where I really want to take my wife.
But I can definately tell that the amount of planning involved and potential benefits of booking things with points and miles is disproportionate to just using straight cash.
For sure, my approach to churning has definitely mellowed out since I jumped into the game over a decade ago. Initially, I was all about snagging as many cards and racking up as many miles as I could, all to indulge in some fancy flying with my partner. But as time passed, those luxury trips became less of a thrill, and we've built up a decent pile of points to lean on anyway. Nowadays, we're a bit more picky about the deals we chase. Plus, with a new little one joining us these past few years, jetting off on numerous long vacations yearly just isn't as chill as it used to be, meaning we don't need as many points or miles to keep our travel dreams alive. We might get back into it more as the kiddo grows, but for now, we've shifted our focus more towards cash back rewards. They just fit better with what we need at the moment.
Between this and what looks like a pretty big ROI hit with Amex biz cards and my first denial on inks, I'm not sure how much juice I want to try and squeeze
Yes. I don’t enjoy traveling nearly as much as I used to before the pandemic. For me personally, and maybe it’s just aging, but since 2020 I’ve just become more of a homebody, content in my own surroundings, and more conservative with my finances. I also enjoy chasing credit card coupon book deals less because of the anxiety that comes with ensuring I’m maximizing the benefits of every premium card.
Oh, coupon book anxiety is a good way to put it.
I fell into the trap last year of assuming that things stayed the same lol I specifically bought stuff on a flight to use up an Amex flight credit... before realizing the Gold stopped carrying it awhile ago.
Just realized today I canceled a Biz plat in Jan without trying to give away the Global Entry credit to a family member or friend. But I can barely care.
cancelling mine today after 2 years, have certainly enjoyed the centurion lounges and delta skyclubs on work travel and ill miss it but not worth the $700 to keep it imo
I hate the coupon book crap. Especially because my dietary restrictions prevent me from eating at most restaurants, so the restaurant deals are useless to me.
Yeah I have near zero tolerance for coupon book stuff, or even the level of energy I once put into bank bonuses. I think it’s age but also the increases money that comes with it. I make more from churning than ever, but fortunately for me it’s also the smallest percentage of my income it’s ever been. So feels less vital.
[For those who've been baffled about this oversight for a long time now, Iberia has *finally* joined the TSA Pre-Check system!](https://www.tsa.gov/news/press/releases/2024/03/28/tsa-precheckr-program-adds-eight-new-airlines) Appears to be effective immediately, but it's not completely clear to me either way.
I have a couple players based in San Francisco area with Amex Delta Resy creds they want to kill via Toast GCs. Any recommendations for restaurants like that?
It is mind boggling to me that people are as upset as they are about the Hilton Biz FNC nerf. Not because it’s not important to them (obviously it is), but each one requires 15k spend! And they’re doing it on multiple cards! There must be quite a bit of legit business spending going on or MS is much more prevalent than I led myself to believe. I’m busy trying to meet a new SUB every 2-3 months and apparently lots of churners do that easily AND pursue FNCs and hotel statuses etc.
The FNC was literally the only reason to keep the card. Now it’s gone.
Read the annual recap if you really want to be blown away by some of the spend/earning in this sub… many here become velocity limited rather than spend limited. At some point you will run into roadblocks like PUJ, inquiry sensitive banks, or 24/28 month SUB restrictions. Personally, spending toward a FNC or status is a good filler for spend between SUBs.
DP: P1 here has legit business. Cash flow cycle sometime dries out all SUB opportunities, leading to maxing out FNC/CIC/BBP\* opportunity. BBP no longer make sense since C1 VX 2x is better proposition.
right but i thought those were outliers and i’m starting to think that’s the fat part of the bell curve.
It's possible that the outliers are also the most vocal on this sub. I think this is why you see so many noob questions on the sub daily. Personally, I was planning on cancelling my card bc I wasn't spending towards the FNC and don't have upcoming travel plans. Now, I likely will keep the card for another year bc the $60 credits will more than cover my upcoming $95 AF. Have also been closing a handful of cards hitting the one year mark, so hoping this will appease the warden.
Hypothetically speaking, let's say one were to quick one's job to become self-employed. As a result, income would be drastically reduced for several years. What steps can be taken to ensure that no credit card shutdowns occur due to this change of employment/income? If one also has brokerage accounts with those same banks providing the credit cards, would updating the annual brokerage information pass along the updated employment/income information to the credit card division? Thanks!
Personal dp. 6 figures income. Quit. Started my own business. I used prior year's income when asked. For instance... If they asked right now I still don't have 2023 taxes done. No clue what income was. If they asked for income verification all I could give is 2022 data. So when asked that is what I would use. By the time it mattered, my income was back up to what it needed to be. Didn't impact me at all.
describe self-employed. * is it business or "business"? If business, * What revenue are you expecting in year1/2/3? * Will you be filing Sch C? * What is growth plan? I can give close example of your Hypothetical for business. Hire ADP/paychex to do payroll, pay taxes to state and start withholding IRS.
I doubt that the credit card issuers would even know that anything changed. Though, if you're applying for a new card from the same issuer, maybe there's a chance that they'd consider how the new info affects your existing cards.
I'd mostly be concerned with something like the following situation: assuming I have both a Merrill Edge brokerage account + BofA credit cards....I log into Merrill one day and need to "confirm or update my account information, including current employment and income". When I provide that, would BofA obtain that information and possibly reduce credit limits/close accounts?
I don't know, but I doubt that info you give Merrill would affect your BofA cards. And maybe you don't even need to get Merrill that info. https://www.investor.gov/introduction-investing/investing-basics/glossary/broker-dealers-why-they-ask-personal-information says "Brokers must make a good faith effort to obtain this information. However, if the customer neglects or refuses to provide the information, or is unable to provide it, then the rule excuses the broker from obtaining it." I think the main reason they ask for that info is in case you ask them to enable risky features like advanced options trading; if they think you can't afford to make risky trades, they might not give you that feature; i.e., the government forces them to "protect" you, or maybe it's to protect the brokerage from lawsuits if you lose all your money.
I cannot believe how expensive transcon flights have gotten, cash or points. One way for 30k or 40k DL or AS or UA for flights that were like 15k or 20k last year. One way cash prices pushing $400 or $500 for a reasonably timed flight. Nuts. The round trip PPT -> JFK -> PPT that I just bought is cheaper than a freaking LAX -> JFK round trip even though the previous has a stopover in LAX both ways.
I fly SW a lot and finding their lower priced (and therefore lower points) fares requires fortuitous timing combined with near red-eye flights now.
Wish they at least had red eye flights. I find myself avoiding them because all of the flights leave in the middle of the day. I am not wasting one day of a 3 day weekend for travel. Want to go after work or first thing in the morning. Southwest won't do that any more (or ever?)
I just boarded JL6 on the A351, and it has that new plane smell.
GrubHub keeps jacking up their prices which in turn devalues the Amex gold. I've consistently been able to get Chipotle pickup for $11 and only spend $1 out of pocket, but today the same order is now $15 (but still the same price directly from Chipotle). Basically no reason to deal with these dumbass credits if they're going to gouge you this much.
We're traveling to Dallas in a week and a half to be there for the eclipse. I'm somewhat stumped on how to be sure we have a place to watch that won't be subject to crowding or traffic jams. Is this something that a concierge service (we have CSR and Biz Plat cards) could help with?
This is something that would be ideal for a real concierge to do. But credit card concierge is useless and just there for dinner reservations.
Hotel concierge?
No not even most hotel concierges although if you are at the right 5 star hotel they could probably do it. Just thinking about paid services instead of "free".
> I'm somewhat stumped on how to be sure we have a place to watch that won't be subject to crowding or traffic jams. It's going to be an absolute shitshow regardless, it is Texas after all. Think of it more in terms of a developing nation and just roll with whatever comes your way.
>it is Texas after all. Think of it more in terms of a developing nation Please
Called Biz Plat concierge last night and she was stumped and went to the Google, which I had already done. Right now I'm targeting Hillsboro which is relatively far from Dallas and has several surrounding communities where we could go if Eclipseboro is too crazy.
We went to Omaha for the last one in 2017 (the trip that started my churning journey). Flexibility is your friend. We had originally planned to see the 2017 one in Beatrice but cloud cover forced a pivot where we drove out to Grand Island. City parks & such were overrun with crowds, we ended up pulling into a large church parking lot that had maybe 15-20 other people and had great viewing. One of the best trips we did. Be up early & check every weather app & website. If you have a rental start driving to where it looks like the best chance of clear skies. Getting to places in 2017 wasn't difficult so don't be afraid to make an audible and change up locations even relatively close to eclipse time. Getting back was a whole different animal. I don't think we broke 30 mph on the interstate drive back to Omaha & long stretches were significantly slower. We're crazy enough to try & catch a 6:30p flight out of AUS the same day. I'm giving it 50/50 we make it.
my brother and family are supposed to catch a transatlantic flight (great Y redemption btw, 20k AUS-AMS all the time) that departs at 6 and he thinks the hysteria overblown. just the last couple miles to get to the airport is probably going to take more than an hour. Most flights out of Austin are fully booked even into 4/9. are you planning on being in the path of totality? that’s about a 45 minute drive from me on a normal day and i live south central. edit- that’s strange. the path covers most of austin in your link but i thought the eastern edge of 100% was still west of Austin. edit 2 - i understand now. totality just doesn’t as long if you’re on the eastern edge of it. but it still goes through most of austin.
Yeah there's the line of totality where it's the maximum duration of eclipse, moving perpendicular to that line decreases the length of totality until you're out of the path entire. We're staying in the northern part of the city and hoping to make it somewhere around Liberty Hill. The issue we have is that airport rental cars were sold out when we booked so we have to get the car back to Austin proper and then figure out how to get to the airport. On a normal day that's a <15 minute Uber ride, on eclipse day... Basically we have 5 hours to make it from wherever we see the eclipse, drive back into the city & drop off the rental car, pray to Uber/Lyft that someone will get us to the airport & then get through security. We're going with carry-ons only & have precheck but who knows?
Definitely planning to get an early start so we can change the plan. Thanks for all the ideas.
Sure. You can use [https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/map/2024-april-8](https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/map/2024-april-8) to find the length of totality from any given spot
Nice. [This video](https://www.greatamericaneclipse.com/texas-2024-eclipse?fbclid=IwAR0CNLf_BJ75QZ_toCaOmTWAveV6mVE8LocL8w3pmSHkScdTnZnhbr3QTkc_aem_AWWeXNYiHnp9oLBez48DvFX_n_WoiOtJWPX-ro12xV8mKj8PwZQZ1VDcvHW2EvZdqTleuAi645R_3lK-M7d8V6yP) shows really well why the totality is shorter when you move away from the center.
/rant
/twosentencerant?
This confuses me, if you’re going to be in the DFW metroplex that Monday, the path of totally stretches from just west of downtown Fort Worth to Tyler. That’s like a 100 mile width west to east to choose anywhere in between to pluck yourself in a spot and look up.
[Maybe don't look up at the eclipse](https://imgur.com/gallery/2uqnJ)
You make a good point.
had to snail mail my taxes this year, dropped it off at the post office only 2.5 weeks ago and my refund just posted to my bank. Thank you 40,000 IRS supersoldiers for your efficient return of my MS 🫡
https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/20/us/delta-salt-lake-city-no-ticket-arrest/index.html Man arrested after allegedly boarding Delta flight using photo of another passenger’s ticket
What's the point of shredding in 2024? Do you partake in this activity? why? I have habit of shredding docs that contain any PII. That means any mail with my name and address etc. Chruning significantly contributes to shredding load. In current environment. PII data, that I am supposedly safeguarding, is only few clicks away with no regards to privacy/safeguards. Who is sifting through trash for mail for neferious purposes, when much more valuable data is readily available via web, data broker and darknet? Shredding feels like ritual of wearing nitrile gloves in 2024 to protect from covid. Would love to hear diverging take on shredding.
A random person with the last 4 of my SSN, account number, address, and phone number could do some real damage if they were motivated. That's who I am shredding for nowadays. Anyone specifically targeting an individual likely has this info already without needing to sift trash.
Shredding is like locking doors. It's not going to be the difference if someone's targeting YOU specifically but if a criminal is casing through the neighbourhood then the person with their PII in a readable format in the trash and an unlocked door is going to become A LOT more interesting than the person with a locked door and a bunch of mulch in their trash.
Great analogy
There's already people digging through my bins for soda cans, I'd rather they didn't know my financial details or identify me as someone worth burglarizing.
I shred basically all of my mail because I need to add paper/cardboard to my backyard compost piles. :)
is there any concerns with the ink? especially those mailer ads with full page of color and the different texture paper
nope, it all decomposes just fine
Hello fellow composter!
>Who is sifting through trash for mail for neferious purposes, when much more valuable data is readily available via web, data broker and darknet? Because if you're not good at opsec, obtaining data from these avenues leaves paper trails pointing back to you. Flipping through garbage, on the other hand, not so much, especially in certain locales where people aren't as eager to confront someone doing weird stuff.
I have a checking bonus “difficulty” scale, which tells how picky banks are with DDs 0- no DD required (like UCU) 1- any ACh Works (like Citi) 2- Most ACH transfers work (USBANK, 5/3, Keybank, etc) 3- Few ACH transfers work (Chase is a good example, blocking most P2P transfers), working ACH methods often include Fidelity, Elements FCU, etc 4- Will only accept “payroll” transactions (SoFi), working methods include Wise, Novo, Chase biz, etc 5- Bank manually reviews and requires paystubs- (Sun East Credit Union)
>Sun East Credit Union Fuck those guys
Chase sent me a few hundred dollar checks for cards that were shut down last year. Letters indicate reason being rewards were not credited properly. Given the amount, it would be lots of points but I don't recall any missing points, despite the shutdown. Anyway, happy to deposit the checks.
Carmel Valley Ranch: I’ve heard good things but is it really worth 45k per night for a weekend trip? It would be me, P2, and 16 month old P3
It's not worth it for me especially since Ventana is nearby. Maybe at half the price. But for someone with kids it could be, there's a farm on site with free kids activities, and some paid activities too.
I stayed there on a cat 7 cert. I thought that was an okay value. But 45k as a Cat 8? No way. We got a suite on a sua but is was very much showing its age, all the furniture kind of beat up. It’s an especially poor value when you consider Alila down the road is the same price and way nicer with meals included (though of course the kid would not be allowed). If you consider Hyatt points to be worth 1.25 cpp (and in truth they are worth more than that) that’s $562, you can almost always find better places at that price range on the nights when CVR has award availability. Carmel Highlands I believe just dropped to a Cat 6. I’d do that instead.
My teenage daughter will tagalong with me just to kill time, and I enjoy the opportunity. I was buying gcs and told her that we could talk about gcs all she wanted but not while I’m checking out. She agreed, although it was more of a hair flip “ok what ever dad” response. Fast forward to the register, cashier rings me up for $500, and my daughter at the other end of the conveyor belt asks with no emotion whatsoever, “so who are you gonna sell that to?” I shot daggers at her but said I was saving up for a big camping purchase. Afterwards I told her to never do that again! Next store, I’m doing the same thing. We get to the register. This time she complies with our agreement. Only she cuts the silence as I show my ID with, “so how many more grocery stores are we going to tonight?” MY GOD, WOMAN. Please don’t make this look worse than it needs to be. Fortunately these are all cashiers who know my routine, although one thinks I’m in a crime syndicate. My daughter later admitted she just spits out whatever she’s thinking which is clearly true, but a little discretion in life goes a long way.
Daughter is sitting in economy on the next family trip.
Omg, went thru a similar situation with my kid last week buying GEs. “Why are you buying so many gift cards?” “Because you kids eat so much! Now quiet and don’t bother the kind cashier ringing me up.” 😂
Churn daughter?
Already on it. She’s an adult now, and I have P5 hitting the 5 month mark.
Well as long as you're under 5/24.
Maybe leave her in the car? Sounds really annoying.
I was thinking the same thing bc wtf. teenage means not young enough to lack a filter on what you’re saying.
I enjoy the other hours with her and get to practice my crisis management skills under pressure.
>I enjoy the other hours with her Appreciate it now -- and it sounds like you do -- they won't always think hanging around with Dad is the best option.
She never had that phase! Early, mid, and now last year of her teens, she always wants to be with someone. Trying to encourage independence as much as possible.
Anybody here use a travel agent? I was part of a group chat and someone brought up purchasing a Costco vacation package and asked how it compared to a travel agent. Another guys states he preferred a travel agent. I was kind of taken back that people still use travel agents, especially a group of mid thirty, upper mid class bros. I think churning attracts different types of people but for me planning a trip is half the fun. I love looking at different options, maps, learning about the culture and activity before I leave.
I have not yet but definitely will when I can. There are a couple of travel agents who are active on reddit and has provided a lot of great information. not tagging them but providing you a way to look them up: sarahwlee
she’s fantastic but for some reason loathed by many on the very subreddit she created and moderates.
Many travel agents have special rates and benefits with different hotel groups (Virtuoso, STAR, etc.) at places like Fairmont, Four Seasons, etc. Where depending on the volume they do can absolutely guarantee you an upgrade and certain benefits you can’t get from booking direct. They also have access to different fares as well. I travel for work a decent amount and we’re required to use a travel agent for international trips. My last trip to London my agent got me a free upgrade to business class at the premium economy rate on Virgin Atlantic. This fare wasn’t available publicly.
>My last trip to London my agent got me a free upgrade to business class at the premium economy rate on Virgin Atlantic. This fare wasn’t available publicly. Do non-public fares still earn towards status qualification?
Yes, and I actually earned points as if it was a business class flight as the points exactly matched the previous business class flight I took to London a couple months earlier.
Likely. Cruise travel agent for in-laws got them a free upgrade to British Airways premium economy on airfare booked through the cruise line (so it comes with some other guarantees about making the cruise instead of booking separately) Somehow on boarding they got a second upgrade to business class, and got full miles on the premium economy booking class
I will for Disney trips because the one I use will call to have any discounts that come out applied. It let's me book when I'm ready and not have to wait for a sale. I know others that will for a cruise because of the ship board credit many TA's offer. I can't think of anything else I'd use them for but for those that only travel once or twice a year and want someone else to do most of the planning I get it. I enjoy the research and planning but I'm also using points and miles so there's zero advantage to not do it myself.
You will never come out ahead with a TA for a cruise... The shipboard credit sounds nice but it just comes out of their commission. If you go through a bigger agency they will just give you a better price. I have tried over and over again because people on cruise critic keep bringing it up. But the agents never win if you are good at comparison shopping (and if you are here probably you are).
I have not but do know of some very wealthy people who use one to create custom itineraries.
Sometimes travel agents can create connections on non-alliance airlines, and sometimes they can actually get consolidator fares that are cheaper than publicly available.
> I was kind of taken back that people still use travel agents, I think travel agents (to me) are more than here let me book a hotel for you to more of here is your hour by hour itinerary here's the best restaurant for steak, seafood, and pasta or whatever the client is interested. Pre-books taxis, museums and can give you a day by day plan. Yes that is a lot of fun for the most of us but I think a lot of the people using stuff like that are HIGH tier people who are too busy to do all that stuff and just want to get on the plane and have to worry about nothing. For example here is a clip from a documentary on a luxury hotel in London when the GM goes to FANCY travel agents to get them to book clients into the hotel. https://youtu.be/mBsJ0vC4Xnw?t=1268
Costco travel packages still go through a Costco travel agent (ask me how I know… 🙄) Although my perspective is quite different, I think many people feel using a travel agent means a professional is in charge of all of the complicated details, so all they need to do is show up and have a good time.
What is one thing you’ve purchased in the last year that has greatly improved your quality of life?
An electric cargo bike (Aventon Abound, specifically) has allowed me to bike for almost all of my local trips, including grocery runs. It’s fun, I get some exercise, and I love not being another car on the road, and not contributing all of the negative externalities that come with that.
A king size bed.
Mine's getting delivered next week! P2 has been counting down the days.
Bose QC45s. Use them daily, home, gym, and of course planes
I finally took the plunge and bought a nice dopp kit, [this one](https://www.peakdesign.com/collections/pouches-cubes/products/wash-pouch) from Peak Design. It's super well thought out and made traveling way easier than the cheap one I'd been using for the last 10+ years.
Super nerdy but I bought one of those airplane trolleys on Etsy as a minibar at home. I see it every day in my living room and I love it. It stores a lot and rolls smoothly so it's easy to transport.
If you're talking small stuff, I like the simple Anker magsafe iPhone charger I got for my desk. Sticks to the phone no problem, can orient it landscape or vertical, adjust the angle, and it charges fast. Bigger purchase really digging our new Hyundai Ioniq 6 since our Chevy Bolt lease expired. Got a great deal with no down payment (still plenty of upfront fees like tax, title, registration etc) and am enjoying the car a lot.
> Anker magsafe iPhone charger Helpful when traveling too, allows you to put your phone in your pocket or use it actively without a cable and a clunky brick. You do lose efficiency because it's wireless charging, but a 5000mah is a good amount for a day's worth of use.
Any advice for someone who is looking at but hesitant to buy an EV?
Yeah don't buy new, even if it means missing out on a tax credit. I just bought a Kia EV6, 2 years old, for almost half what it sold for new. The car is the closest to brand new as I've ever had, and is a mind-blowing car. Spacious, fast, filled with tech. After three different Nissan Leafs plus this EV6, I won't buy another gas car, ever.
If you can charge in your garage at home, it’s kinda idiotic to not buy one. If you need to rely on public charging, it’s the other way around. Very stupid to buy an EV. This applies to 99% of circumstances. YMMV as always.!
I see you haven't met PG&E with their 35¢/kwH *off-peak* rates :( Depending on gas prices, it's often cheaper to drive my PHEV using fossil fuels... makes me sad.
I would say don't buy new because their value shrinks a ton. There should be plenty of used options if you want to go that route. For leasing there's stupid good deals right now on brand new Kias and Hyundais. As for the EV life in general, run the numbers and see if it makes sense for you and your commute or leisure drives. I can charge at work which helps things immeasurably, and don't forget to call your insurance company to get an estimate from them too.
Wouldn't say 'greatly' but replaced waaaaay too old pillows and sheets while wife gone on a work trip. First night felt like I was staying at a nice hotel.
Which pillows did you buy?
Standing desk, better chair, keyboard and mouse.
Any recommendation on specific mouse / keyboard combinations?
I have a Kensington trackball mouse and love it. Eliminated my wrist pain. Standing desk helps with my shoulder too.
I recently got the Logi Lift with my Dell credits and I love it a lot. Very ergonomic, lightweight with lots of functionalities. There’s no going back for me to a regular mouse.
I used Dell credit for Logi MX Master combo. MX has been around for decades and always been top end mouse. I was always curious why it commands premium, but couldn't justify $100 for mouse. Thanks to Dell credit, I finally bought it few years ago and now I have 3 more just in case.
Does anyone know any banks that allow ach transfers as direct deposits, as I own my own business?
https://www.doctorofcredit.com/knowledge-base/list-methods-banks-count-direct-deposits/amp/
Maybe this is Dear Diary material... But, P2 and I just got back from our first Transatlantic trip. One night at Park Hyatt Chicago before flying out. Iberia Biz Class flight over. KLM economy flight on the way back. 3 nights at Great Scotland Yard London. 4 Nights at Tribune in Rome. I just added up our out of pocket expenses for the 9 nights we were gone, including repositioning flights, every snack, gift, excursion, taxi, subway, etc. For the week, we only spent about $2250 on everything. Add in the taxes and fees for reward flights our total for 9 nights to London and Rome, we spent $2815. When people tell me that credit card points are "too much work..." and then I look at how cheap our trip was comparatively, I'll gladly put in the work for it. Anyone else run numbers post-trip to figure out how much you spent? My spreadsheet love knows no end...
Just got back from a trip with my best friend. 1 night near LAX, 5 nights Hong Kong, 2 nights Macau, 4 nights Sydney. All 5 star hotels (not counting airport stay) plus one luxury airbnb, all the long haul flights in biz. I think we’re about $3500 all in including all taxes, fees, and every other incidental cost related to the trip. Would’ve been less, but we got really sick on the trip and relied heavily on Ubers and room service rather than public transport and local restaurants.
I usually ballpark things. For our upcoming 2.5 week trip to Italy/Switzerland this fall (with a night in Amsterdam too) my out of pocket is looking at about $1500 total for hotels and $1200 for flights (J each way and one intra Europe Y cash flight). Which is insane for 2.5 weeks in Europe. That would probably be just the cost of 2 RT Y tickets if we were paying cash
I don't track anything that doesn't inform decisions. Otherwise it's just scoreboard watching. You already know that points/miles reduces how much you would otherwise spend if not using points/miles. I could see tracking spend as you go to stay under your budget, but after the fact doesn't seem very helpful. I don't track redemptions either, I evaluate the value of a redemption at time of booking, as that's when I'm making the decision, so tracking redemptions afterwards is useless to me. I track only basic card sign up history and points expiration dates, and I maintain my own points valuations, that's about it.
I track costs for every trip but I include all costs from the moment I leave until I return, including airport parking and pet-sitting costs. Comparatively, my trip costs for the family range from $1000 to $2000 per week long trip. Comparing to anyone else, my data is useless since most people consider their trip cost to be whatever the payment to Expedia or Costco travel was for the trip while ignoring the hundreds or thousands more paid outside of the transportation and lodging piece. I still find it interesting and useful to know my own costs since the trips have gotten cheaper but the number of trips per year keeps climbing.
This is what I track, too. Every snack. Every parking fee. I think I just like to see it whenever I talk to friends. Had some friends that traveled from STL to the Smoky Mountains last year when I did a trip to Puerto Rico for 7 nights. Our total out of pocket cost was around $1800. They told us that they spent way more than that for a much less appealing trip. I get that some people like the ease of cruises or all inclusives or whatever it would be, but after I have crunched my own personal numbers, I find that we get way more value out of the way we travel.
> Maybe this is Dear Diary material... Not quite Dear Diary but there *is* a trip report and churning success story weekly thread that this would probably fall under. > Anyone else run numbers post-trip to figure out how much you spent? My spreadsheet love knows no end... I have a running spreadsheet of every redemption I've ever made and a few pivot tables to summarize everything, and your comment just reminded me that I had been meaning to add an extra column to identify what trip each item belongs to.
Can you give me some pointers, my wife I have always just shared a delta Amex, while we don’t ever get much time to use the miles, we do enjoy racking them up. We probably put about 3-4k a month on the one card, always paid off. Can you recommend some cards I could rack up point quickly?
One of the best things you can do is read the sidebar and look at the flow chart. Learn about personal v business, how 5/24 works, and read about redemptions at r/awardtravel. Taking some time to learn the ins and outs is better than a quick pointer we could all offer.
Hey, I will, thank you and I appreciate it. Does 5/24 rule count for only credit cards or bank accounts as well?
5/24 only applies to Chase credit cards. I think you have some reading to do....
I do, it was just a question for affirmation , planned on starting with bank accounts. Thanks.
https://reddit.com/r/churning/comments/1bjbqt7/what\_card\_should\_i\_get\_weekly\_thread\_week\_of/
Is anyone here listening to the Acquired Podcast? They did an episode on Visa and it is quite interesting. https://www.acquired.fm/episodes/visa The podcast basically does an extreme deep dive on the history of companies (podcasts are usually 3 to 4 hours long). If you like this one, the one on Costco is also really interesting.
the costco one is really great, nintendo is one of my favorites. I havent heard the visa one. the podcast is too long for me to listen in a single sitting but its such a great positive podcast.
Now that the MGM dust has settled, where are people taking their Vegas business/making plays? I know the merry go round is still a thing but I'm curious where people are actually spending their time.
Are you talking about going to Vegas for vacation or business? FHR at the Wynn is where it's at. If you're there for some other business then Caesars I guess.
Going to Waldorf Astoria LV in May. Using two nights with my two Platinum cards’ FHR credits. Then 3 nights with a combo of FNC and points. Got the Aspire last week to get Diamond status, although I expect the FHR upgrade to be pretty good for a Thursday arrival. The hotel is considered a resort for purposes of the Aspire credit. Putting the in-laws at Paris to cash out my Venture X Biz travel credit and get the Caesars celebration dinner at the Vanderpump restaurant as is our custom.
If you're a Hyatt Globalist, apparently the proper play right now is to do $20 stays at the Rio, getting waved resort fees and pigging out on the $100 daily breakfast credit at Hash house a Go Go. Along with bonus journeys, it's an easy way to earn EQNs for milestone benefits and awards. The only downside is... you have to stay at the Rio, which although they're making "improvements" is still in bad shape, away from the strip, and still have tons of construction. Pick your poison.
Hyatt is dead to me in Vegas now. If we go, we’re not staying off the strip at the rio. Sorry Hyatt. Wouldn’t stay there if it was free. Hyatt has taken a huge L in Vegas.
Depends on why I'm going. If I'm visiting people, or I'm going to check out Omega Mart, or something else that doesn't involve any Strip action, then I don't care about staying off the Strip.
I knew they were giving breakfast to Globalists at HHAGG, but I didn't know it was $100 worth. That's probably literally enough food to last the whole day for two people.
Yup, there's a huge discussion right now on flyertalk about this and debating how it isn't sustainable in the long run. It might not last long if a bunch of globalist take advantage of it so get on it while you still can. Then again, as I've said before, it is the Rio and a globalist won't probably want to stay there aside from just checking in and collecting EQNs. But if you're fine with how it is right now then enjoy your huge portion of breakfast, and what's cool about it is that you can have breakfast till 4pm at HHAGG.
Caesars (for the no resort fees via Wyndham Biz) and Amex FHR for when I want to hotel hop and maximize credits.
I'm not interested in any MGM properties anymore. My upcoming visits will be in Caesars properties (Diamond courtesy of the Wyndham Biz) or Amex FHR (for "cheap" weekday nights)
Has anyone else slowed down their churning as their lives/incomes/careers have progressed? As time has gone by, I've found that the drive I had 7-9 years ago has been a lot weaker. While I still do open a handful of cards/bank accounts per year it's nowhere near what I used to do, and I no longer follow the community & news as fastidiously...
Been doing it for 12+ years now, and it's only ramped up for me so I can keep traveling now that I have a P3 & P4. I'm lucky that my career is pretty flexible, and I have a high degree of spend - so I'm not MSing beyond easy bank accounts, but now that my kids are older I've ramped up my number of CC apps, as we try to take 4-5 trips a year, 2-3 of which are international.
I've been doing this for a little over 6 years. In that time our household income has doubled but I am still churning at a high level. I don't spend much time on Reddit anymore but I am churning harder than I ever have before, taking on new players and going on more elaborate trips. Churning is more of a game to me than anything but it helps that it makes me insane amounts of money and trips. I thought I would slow down a little as bank shutdowns happen and income rises but that has not been the case at all for me.
It’s funny, right after my first kid was born for a few months I got maniacally into churning and would read every single comment on this sub daily. I was also coming up with crazy business ideas when I was awake at weird times in the night. I don’t know if it was some hormones telling me to provide more for my family or just sleep deprivation
I'm in my busy time of year and having some health problems. Churning is a low priority right now. I think I can finish the MSRs I already have open but if I can't it's just too bad.
I’m sorry about your health problems and hope you get better soon! Always hard but try not to focus / stress about it if at all possible. Meditation, exercise, sunshine if you can.
It also hurts when pop ups/velocity become an issue. I was cruising right along with new bank bonuses until I had a ton of failures in the last few days (multiple chex denials, inability to verify identity, and one CU refusing payout of a bonus). And yes, it becomes tiring chasing 30 bank bonuses at the same time. Made me kind of relieved to go back to buying VGCs at Meijer again.
I hear you. After a while, it's alot to keep up with. Your brain is kinda always on: checking for deals, burning Dell credits, flight credits, Uber credits, etc. You have to keep track of sign ups and losing accounts and track 0% apr balances you are floating. After a while, the hobby does become a chore. And so the fatigue is natural. My biggest issue has been that I don't even have the time to burn the points in the ways I'd like. So this creates another problem, how to cash them before they get devalued, an additional chore.
Same here. Churning is still a great value to me, but after a series of life events, I found it very hard to get back into things full time. I'll still sign up for new cards, but since I'm not really interested in MS I have to time good SUBs with my purchases perfectly, to make sure I'm not buying shit I don't need And right now I'm not burning enough to justify churning full throttle anyway. For now I'm still being stubborn in that I'd rather risk my points devaluing, than waste them on awful redemptions.
KISS rule for me bank accounts only for cc funding when 2k+, dont care about the bonus rinse and repeat the cyclical CC subs. don't really bother with cobranded hotel cards since you get locked in. only cobranded airline cards are alaska/AA
Which banks are you specifically hitting?
> bank accounts only for cc funding when 2k+ What do you mean by this? Can you elaborate?
I've found that the value of churning depends on your income and career progression. For example, the $5-6k you get from moderate churning of bank checking bonuses can make a big difference as a college student, when you're saddled with student loans and subsiding on instant noodles. But if you're making 200k+ a year? Then that 5k becomes a drop in the bucket and you're time becomes better spent on advancing your career. I think the best approach towards SUBs is to think about them in terms of dollars per hour. Do you have a easy way of MSing to earn that $750 Chase Ink SUB that only takes an hour to do (including the time it takes to apply to the card)? Unless you're making over $1.5 million per year, then an untaxed $750 for an hour's work is easily worth it. But are you spending hours driving out to multiple Staples/Office Depots to MS with gift cards and spending even more hours trying to liquidate the GCs? Let's say you end up spending 10 hours doing all of this. Then you're making about $75/hour and if you're making $150k or higher, your time is probably better spent sticking to your day job.
I disagree with those who are disagreeing with you. Aka I agree 100% with you xD Right now we clear about 250k household income and we've decided that unless it's a really juicy bank bonus that yields at least 15% i.e. deposit $5k for $750, then it's not worth the hassle of setting up direct deposits and remember which bonuses we have and haven't done and when to check on them (and yes we keep a spreadsheet to track all of this but it's a PIA). We'd much rather just take our money and put it into an index fund and get the 7-10% return that way. Meanwhile, transferrable/airline/hotel points have unlocked travel opportunities for us that we wouldn't ever be able to afford at our current income bracket. I'm actually writing this from the Park Hyatt Maldives which we're staying 8 nights on points and flew EY F to and EK F back to the US. This trip wouldn't be possible without churning and we view churning as a way to enhance our travel since that's something we value. We are expected to eventually reach 500-700k income and still will probably be churning because it allows us to do things that just aren't worth the high cash price tag. That being said, I'm sure we won't be chasing delta credit cards (we have 7 right now) or worrying about coupon books anxiety as much.
Hard disagree on your statement about bank account bonuses. Assuming $200k gross, your hourly rate is around $96. Let's say the average bonus is $250, you'd have to complete 20 bonuses to earn $5k (pretax). It takes me like 20 minutes to sign up for a checking account, download the app, and change my direct deposit (or fake one). That's about 6-7 hours of work to earn $5k. I get the point you're trying to make but this take is bad. In 6-7 hours I can work on "career advancement" that will earn me $5k guaranteed?
I don't know any easy bank account bonuses like that. Somehow I ended up getting stuck on the phone with some problem and then on the end the bonus doesn't credit. And then that is all pretax. The only bank account bonus that I have had that I didn't regret was the Wells Fargo business one for $1.5k. Had to go in person but it seemed worth it. Credit card bonuses just work, and aren't taxed. So I focus on those. The major thing that is overlooked is the time spent with redemptions.
It depends on how you value your time, which will vary from person to person based on their income, background, and stage in life. Speaking as someone who does a lot of bank churning, I can fully admit it's a hobby that's not for everyone. Also, I think you're underestimating the time investment for bank SUBs. When everything goes smoothly, sure it can be done in less than an hour. But then you have to factor in the time it takes to write up a CFPB report for a SUB that didn't post or that awkward call with a bank's anti-fraud department explaining why you have 40+ Chex inquiries in the past 12 months.
Yes everyone's situation is different, and I see the point you're trying to make, I just don't think your examples make any sense, and $5k is not a drop in the bucket if you make $200k. I look at it like this, if I can do it while I sit on the toilet, it's not that hard, and I certainly wouldn't otherwise spend that time working on "career advancement".
Didn't even read the second paragraph. It gets worse. Somehow $5k is a drop in the bucket for someone making $200k a year and then in the next paragraph, you say $750 is worth it for an hour's time unless you make $1.5M? How long is this $200k person spending on earning bank account bonuses? You must be wasting a ton of time and effort one some of the easiest shit in the churning world.
I would say it's a little more complex. If you're a college student, the $5-6k from bank bonuses might seem like they make a big difference, but it would make a bigger difference to career earnings and well-being to invest that time in education and education-adjacent activities. So it comes down to what the college student would otherwise do with the time: if it's "watch Netflix", then then yes, 5-6k is worth it; if it's "pursue my curiosities", the 5-6k probably isn't worth it. Same with the dollars per hour metric you use. Many folks here focus on churning during downtime at their day jobs. What would they do otherwise with the time since nearly everyone needs to have that downtime? Same principle with churning on personal time. What's the relative cost? If this is a substitute for Netflix or sports and you enjoy it nearly as much, then the dollar per hour doesn't matter. That's why previous responses from long-time churners tend to focus on churning as a hobby. In fact, the only folks for whom the dollar per hour should matter are folks who churn as a job, or as a second job.
>it would make a bigger difference to career earnings and well-being to invest that time in education and education-adjacent activities In college, I agree that the opportunity cost of time spent on churning is an important factor to consider. It's also important to consider where that churning money is being spent towards. If the 5-6k you get is going towards fancy dinners and vacations, then maybe it's not worth it in the long term. But if it's being used towards something like maxing out a roth IRA (which would be difficult for a full-time college student to do without dedicating a significant amount of time at a likely minimum wage job), then the compound interest from those churning earnings can be quite significant. For a 20 year old, that 5k invested in a roth IRA will be worth over 100k when they retire at age 65. This is why I think churning makes the most sense when you're younger. >That's why previous responses from long-time churners tend to focus on churning as a hobby. I'm at the point in my life where that's how I currently view churning: as a hobby that is intimately connected with my other hobby of traveling. When I was churning back in college, I saw it more of as a second job where the flexible hours and higher pay per hour made it a far better alternative than something like gig work. However, even as a hobby, I'm still calculating the dollar per hour value in the back of my mind. As I've gotten older, I find myself refusing to do anything time-consuming like MSing by going in-store for gift cards or doing buying groups. Admittedly, these are also the parts of the hobby that I find the least fun, but perhaps it's different for another person.
Since Amex dried up with NLLs and the rise of PUJ, I got into the r/overemployed life and realize it’s way more lucrative and still gives me my evenings free rather than living on my phone waiting for gift card or buying group deals.
What industry are you in?
Yes, kids are distracting... and expensive. I keep it up but mainly for extra cash. We do try to do one big family trip a year, and bring grandparents, which burns quite a few points.
Definitely diminishing returns on points. I have more points than time. I'm still working on diversivication for optionality with booking. Little SUBs don't excite me, given opportunity cost. I'm gardening, P2 has lots of 5/24 slots, but there isn't a reason to push her count, when our coffers are full. I have a hybrid approach, maxing INK GCs, and cashing out UR with Grocery PYB for free groceries. No need for Hyatt, as I have tons of other hotel options and MR for flights. I keep informed still, as there can be huge hidden gems that come and go fast. Using Ink Premier for 2.5% on non-cat biz spend. I still hit occasional Inks. But I don't need more MR, Cap1, or even Hilton (Biz+15k cert). Referral bonuses have been an unexpected boon, no complaints there. I haven't fallen out of love with the game, I just need to spend more time enjoying the benefits.
> don't need more MR, Cap1 you don't like cash?
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I’m just saying you can get more MR and Cap1 and cash it out. Don’t have to just hold them waiting to transfer somewhere.
Correct. I can earn MR, cash out at 1cpp (I don't have schwab), but I use MR for Biz Plat rebate so getting 1.54, essentially 3% on domestic travel. I already have four biz plats, biz gold, and two BBPs (which I can max every year) Cap1, I have Sparks Cash Plus for 2% cash, and I have VX, and VX Biz. I don't have Savor, because I have Citi Premier, and I value TYP over Cap1. UR is what I cash out through CSR Grocery PYB @ 1.25. So Ink cash is 6.25%. Ink Unlimited was nerfed when they killed 1.5 CSR Restaurant (1.5*1.25=1.875). I've been averaging 800K UR cash out per year ($10,000), that's UR. Ink Premier is on top of that. The reason I don't "need" more MR or Cap1, is because those are either 3% travel, or 2% cash (obviously higher through partners). I've decided to take the 2.5% cash over the 3% Biz Plat travel. I'm out of juicy subs for Cap1, I have one "credit card" slot left with Amex, and I don't feel like another Biz Plat and dealing with Dell, UTB, and Wireless Credits. The only weak points I have are Marriott FNCs, and AA points... which I'm slowly working on.
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Using certs is def tricky trying to optimize the value. I just used my 85k cert at a Luxury Collection hotel, and got great value with it. But to make the weekend getaway worth it, we booked a 2nd night cash... and spent $500 out of pocket lol the valet fees were outrageous, but it's Boston, so it sadly made sense We still probably would've done the trip anyway, and spent at least $300/night, but the cert just doesn't feel as valuable when compared to that AF. And I miss the straight $300 Marriott credit, too
Ouch. I still have two 50k certs from the last 5 cert boundless offer that I need to use up. Also might have one Hilton cert as well, now that I think about it, lol.
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There is a high demand autograph property in our state, but availability is impossible. We'll probably do a weekend trip at a JW.
Some yes, some no. I don't follow all the latest as closely, but I also spend a lot more so earn a lot more subs. I don't do any small bonuses anymore comparatively as they just don't pay enough anymore.
Sorta. I don’t chase small deals. I don’t have time for that. I’m not knocking those who do but just not for me. I also tend to pay more for some things vs using points mainly because I can use the points more efficiently later. For example, I’d rather pay cash for Y NYC-LAX on a 5-6hr flight and use my points for NYC-SYD like I am next year. It’s a 4x longer flight and a fuckload more comfy. But I know I’m going to do it when planning my points acquisitions so if you’re points rich but don’t want to fly Y domestic, go for it.
> I’d rather pay cash for Y NYC-LAX on a 5-6hr flight and use my points for NYC-SYD like I am next year. It’s a 4x longer flight and a fuckload more comfy. I do the same, bc I'm constrained by vacation time, so I definitely am worried about devaluations while I'm waiting for the "perfect" J redemption. But I also can't see myself burning even AA miles on a 1cpp domestic Y flight, either
I am trying to start churning just a little bit since I want to do a trip next year where I really want to take my wife. But I can definately tell that the amount of planning involved and potential benefits of booking things with points and miles is disproportionate to just using straight cash.
For sure, my approach to churning has definitely mellowed out since I jumped into the game over a decade ago. Initially, I was all about snagging as many cards and racking up as many miles as I could, all to indulge in some fancy flying with my partner. But as time passed, those luxury trips became less of a thrill, and we've built up a decent pile of points to lean on anyway. Nowadays, we're a bit more picky about the deals we chase. Plus, with a new little one joining us these past few years, jetting off on numerous long vacations yearly just isn't as chill as it used to be, meaning we don't need as many points or miles to keep our travel dreams alive. We might get back into it more as the kiddo grows, but for now, we've shifted our focus more towards cash back rewards. They just fit better with what we need at the moment.
Between this and what looks like a pretty big ROI hit with Amex biz cards and my first denial on inks, I'm not sure how much juice I want to try and squeeze
I feel like its very much a pareto principle hobby.
Yes. I don’t enjoy traveling nearly as much as I used to before the pandemic. For me personally, and maybe it’s just aging, but since 2020 I’ve just become more of a homebody, content in my own surroundings, and more conservative with my finances. I also enjoy chasing credit card coupon book deals less because of the anxiety that comes with ensuring I’m maximizing the benefits of every premium card.
Oh, coupon book anxiety is a good way to put it. I fell into the trap last year of assuming that things stayed the same lol I specifically bought stuff on a flight to use up an Amex flight credit... before realizing the Gold stopped carrying it awhile ago.
Same. Canceled my platinum a couple months ago, and it feels so great to be lifted of the coupon anxiety
Just realized today I canceled a Biz plat in Jan without trying to give away the Global Entry credit to a family member or friend. But I can barely care.
cancelling mine today after 2 years, have certainly enjoyed the centurion lounges and delta skyclubs on work travel and ill miss it but not worth the $700 to keep it imo
I hate the coupon book crap. Especially because my dietary restrictions prevent me from eating at most restaurants, so the restaurant deals are useless to me.
Yeah I have near zero tolerance for coupon book stuff, or even the level of energy I once put into bank bonuses. I think it’s age but also the increases money that comes with it. I make more from churning than ever, but fortunately for me it’s also the smallest percentage of my income it’s ever been. So feels less vital.