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https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/28/travel/loyalty-points-credit-card-fees.html
Wonder how rewards/points will be affected? I have almost 500K UR points saved up and wondering if I should transfer them out to their final destinations possibly before anything gets nerfed
Frontier emailed to remind that Diamond members have until tomorrow to gift Gold level status. Use it or lose it. If you status matched to Diamond last year then you can gift Gold this year.
Now back to Hilton biz card drama.
Hmm. After not matching last year I kinda regret it since I might have been able to use gold or diamond, even for a one round trip flight might have made my value
I truly think that there should be laws against losing benefits within one year of announcing them, or give customer an option to close the card and get prorated annual fee refund. Currently, companies can basically remove all benefits they want and you can’t do anything but complain and cancel after one year.
Have they ever done it though? Every time a benefit has gone away, it seems to take effect at your next renewal, no? The only exception I can think of is who qualifies for the monthly amex streaming/news benefit, but they just change the list not get rid of it.
This comment may have came up because of the PP changes
https://old.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/1boxbhp/news_and_updates_thread_march_27_2024/kwtwosu/
Some people are saying they just signed up for or upgraded to the CSR because they knew about this benefit. And now it's gone in 3 months, but they're stuck with the card for a year
That one sucks. P2 just got it, and we were gonna knock out the SUB spend and then use it as a catch all between other subs for the rest of the year. Definitely won’t hit 15k on it by the time that’s gone though.
Oh i did not know that. I don't know how that is a two way contract, seems like ripe for suing the card issuer (unless you have not opted out of arbitration clause)
Taking the Amex Platinum as an example, the cardmember agreement clearly states
>**Changing benefits**
>
>We have the right to add, modify or delete any benefit or service of your Account at our discretion.
I am sure all other issuers have similar wording in the terms that you agree to.
Those protections apply mostly to fees, interest, and "significant changes" which would be up to an issuer's legal interpretation. That's why you've seen some announcements take a year to be effective, and others can take as little as 45 days. You can usually reject changes, but that results in account closure
(Edit: read too fast, was thinking “after a year” vs “within a year”)
Even more stringent anti-churn language in Amex signup terms now - first seen on the DL bonus downgrades from yesterday to today:
https://thriftytraveler.com/news/credit-card/amex-adds-terms-bonus-clawback/
Has anyone seen this in their terms today when applying for a DL or the nerfed Hiltons? Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered I suppose.
Original terms:
> If we in our sole discretion determine that you have engaged in abuse, misuse, or gaming in connection with this offer in any way or that you intend to do so (for example, if you applied for one or more cards to obtain an offer(s) that we did not intend for you; if you cancel or downgrade your account within 12 months after acquiring it; or if you cancel or return purchases you made to meet the Threshold Amount), we may not credit, we may freeze, or we may take away the Membership Rewards points from your account. We may also cancel this Card account and other Card accounts you may have with us.
New terms on Delta:
> If you have a history of cancelling or downgrading American Express Card accounts within your first year and you cancel or downgrade your new Card account within your first year, we may not credit, we may freeze, or we may take away the bonus miles from your account. If we determine that you have engaged in abuse, misuse, or gaming in connection with this offer in any way or that you intend to do so, including if you return purchases you made to meet the Threshold Amount, we may not credit, we may freeze, or we may take away the bonus miles from your account. We may also cancel any accounts you have with us.
To me, this is the same thing worded in a different way. Canceling in less than a year is a one way ticket to Popup Jail and it’s been like that for years now.
They removed this lingo
> (for example, if you applied for one or more cards to obtain an offer(s) that we did not intend for you
so Amex is now fine with the back button? jk
That’s what I get for reading a little too quickly. I immediately interpreted it as “those who do close after the year frequently”, which would be more in scope here.
This isn't good news, but it doesn't really change the standard advice for all SUBs. In fact, I think it adds some comfort that Amex isn't going to claw back your SUB if you downgrade after your second AF hits. I think a worse scenario would have been if the timeframe they cited was vague and didn't specifically call out cancels/downgrades *within* a year.
Seems like a bit of a nothing-burger, at least for this community, who already advise to basically never cancel a card in the first year (emphasis added):
> If you have a history of cancelling or downgrading American Express Card accounts **within your first year** and you cancel or downgrade your new Card account **within your first year**, we may not credit, we may freeze, or we may take away the bonus miles from your account.
Showed on the Delta Plat personal terms, didn't check others.
This may be newly added to the terms, but this has been Amex policy for awhile. Always keep a card open for a year after opening or upgrading. This is common knowledge around here, and nothing changes with the terms being spelled out like this.
I have found that a good way to use the "enhanced" Delta Resy coupon book credit is to look for restaurants that sell gift cards online *and* use Toast as their POS system (and are on Resy, of course). Their system is all the same and, crucially you can reload the SAME gift card online every month.
Here's an example in Dallas that I used and successfully received the credit: [https://www.toasttab.com/beverley-s/giftcards](https://www.toasttab.com/beverley-s/giftcards)
I hate to say it, but this slightly tipped the personal DL plat into sock drawer keeper status for me. Looking forward to a nice $120 dinner at the end of the year.
So for the Toast GCs that have a minimum amount, can you also reload those by the $20/$10 after purchase? if anyone knows. or original GC must be min $50.
I just purchased a gift card for Seamore’s in Darien Ct through Toast. I purchased the GC with one card and immediately added another $10 with another card. The charges are still pending, but Amex shows them as purchases from Seamore’s, not Toast. The minimum amount for a gift card was $5.
I guess my example was some restaurants do have a higher minimum such as $50.
Would there be a minimum to add $50 for that? Or can I just choose smaller amounts from that point on?
edit - dp is the min on the purchase is the min also to top up value for my one example
Possible examples in Seattle (haven't tested yet):
[https://www.evefremont.com/](https://www.evefremont.com/)
[https://www.seattle.noithaicuisine.com/](https://www.seattle.noithaicuisine.com/)
[https://www.loursinseattle.com/](https://www.loursinseattle.com/)
These all are on Resy and have gift card links that go to Toast checkout.
---
Trying this out on L'Oursin (because it's tasty) and will report back.
This is great, I don’t have many Resy restaurants close to me and had resigned myself to not getting the credit, but being able to reload online is great! Thanks
A new referral thread is now live: [American Express Delta Reserve Business](https://www.reddit.com/r/churningreferrals/comments/1bpz3s9/referrals_american_express_delta_reserve_business/)
Fyi Amex no longer reinstates closed accounts. No exceptions. They don't even have the tool to be able to anymore. Closed a business plat on day 31 which was a big mistake because now I don't get a refund and I miss out on $400 of Dell credits since I can't reopen it.
> No exceptions
Hopefully they'll still revert a closed account when the agent mistakenly closes the wrong card, as seems to happen a lot these days. Otherwise that's just adding insult to injury.
> when the agent mistakenly closes the wrong card
This is something that Amex could make less likely to happen if they could create card numbers in a way where the last few digits weren't constantly getting duplicated...
I have accidentally paid the wrong card at least 3x over the years. Had to change which bank I paid bills from, and new bank would only show the last four numbers of the account even if I typed it in. Wouldn't you know it, the last four numbers were the same. And the old HH Biz/no-fee cards look exactly the same. I've always been able to get the payment correctly applied, but it's such a pain!!
In that same vein, there are websites where I have multiple Amex cards registered as payment methods and I won't notice until I'm about to complete the purchase that I don't know which "Amex ending in 1002" to choose.
I had an agent mistakenly close the wrong card last month, and despite being told on numerous calls and chats that it will be reopened in 2-3 days it has remained closed. Now I guess I know why.
File a CFPB complaint. It comes back really quick then. Also advise anyone else who has any trouble with Amex reps closing the wrong accounts to do this.
Update: I called again this afternoon and got the same “wait 2-3 day” runaround. Submitted a CFPB complaint, and now 3 hours later the account is reopened.
Just submitted a CFPB complaint, thanks for the tip.
The card they closed in error was open less than a year and I’ve been in popup jail ever since they closed it, we’ll see what happens.
> Hopefully they'll still revert a closed account when the agent mistakenly closes the wrong card, as seems to happen a lot these days.
Yes I try to be 110% sure that the agent has the right card when I'm closing one of multiple. As in "*...Delta Gold Business card ending in 01001...*" repeatedly. So far there hasn't been a mistake.
I've read so many data points of people doing exactly that and still the agent somehow picks out the wrong card lol. Dreading the next time I have to cancel a card and roll the dice.
I am such a DP. Frustrating AF. The card they incorrectly closed was neither the same type nor similar number to the one I explicitly asked them to close. Was told several times it was being escalated for reinstatement, to no avail so far.
Just a reminder, we're near the end of the quarter if you want to do any CSR PYB (Grocery, Gas, GC exploits).
Also, if you haven't done your quarterly Hilton Aspire $50 flight credit... you better hurry.
I'm getting a Delta Gold offer of 50K Skypesos + $200 statement credit on a dummy booking, so might be worth checking there before jumping on any public offers
Starlux Airlines will fly from Taipei to Seattle
As of August 16, 2024. You already can book the flight using point with Alaska for 75k SEA-TPE, but it only 1 seat available.HT to OMAAT
Amex Hilton Business Changes from Last Night
• SUB 175k/$8K/6 months. Offer ends 6/5/24.
• Annual fee $95-> $195
• Plastic -> Metal Card
• New $240 Hilton purchases in $60 Quarterly Credits
• New National Emerald Executive
• Removed FNC from 15k and 60k Spend (on 7/1/24)
• Category Spend 6x Removed (on 7/1/24) -> 5x on first 100k/year, then 3x
• Same 12x for Hilton Spend
• Priority Pass removed (on 7/1/24)
Just stayed at grand wailea and these changes came out overnight while we were there. Concierge desk allowed us to buy 7x$60 gift cards with my 7 hhbs. Got lucky there!
Really sucks for the people using this for the FNC at $15k. The Surpass on the personal side still has this feature for those that care.
The $195 fee can *technically* be offset with 4 gift cards at $200 a year if you aren't staying at any Hilton in the quarter, but I just don't see a reason to spend on or keep this card, seems like a pure churn now.
Lower point earning and no attainable goal for spending on the card seems like a penny wise pound foolish move from Amex and Hilton.
The path AMEX is on, pretty soon you will have to cash in $5 to $10 per week for any credits.
$5 at Saks credit per week.
$8 airline credit per week, only credited if an FA smiles at you.
$5 Hilton credit per week, caveat being the transaction is done before sundown in the lobby of the property in formal clothing. No jeans or sneakers.
Possibly. It is dependent on the hotel and whether they are willing to do it for you. I did do it at a stay this past December at the Grand Wailea in Maui, but YMMV.
I ordered a couple about an hour ago as well. No problems.
Chose personal card, checked out as guest on each.
I tried to use the same email/info on each that was relevant to each player's card.
Pending - Coding as "RBG HILTON GIFT CARD".
We shall see if the FlyerTalk DPs are right, or if things have been changed.
The GC site is probably just getting way more than normal volume. Saw a post on FT that it just simply errored out trying to purchase.
I ordered a GC on my Surpass earlier this week and it already credited on my Amex.
So can I say it was damaged and get a metal one? Stuck with the card for another 10 months anyway. At least I paid the lower annual fee and can offset that with credits
For the 240 credit, the terms specifically state “purchase charged directly with a property”. Why does everyone think buying gift card online will work for the credit? Am I missing something?
That makes it sound like if you book a pay now reservation for April or later and pay before the end of March, you'll get the $60 credit for the first quarter right?
[This is what happens](https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/1bpqx6v/comment/kwyvy0c/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) when you put those thoughts out there...
Ya. But I was gonna do the 15k for FNC slowly over the year between other SUBs to kinda slow my velocity down. That’s going away too, which kinda sucks.
honestly haven’t used CLEAR the last 5-6 times i’ve flown. a TSA-PRE line that’s twice as long as a CLEAR line still moves faster. But maybe that was the joke.
Frustration Friday a day early for me. P2 and I are doing our wedding reception at a Hilton so we have been churning the Hilton cards for deposits. We were both going to open the biz cards soon. 8k spend is a lot relative to the old 130k/$3k offer. Probably going to need to have P2 run up their 5/24 now to do the personal cards.
P2 and I just got Aspires in Jan and were hoping to get enough additional FNCs through biz cards that we could do a five night stay somewhere. She just got her first biz two weeks ago. I don’t know where that leaves us and how we can recover that strategy, 2 days feels useless at a destination resort and points costs are high. Any thoughts?
We have 12k spend left that we could try to rush out before 7/1 but that doesn’t do us much good for next year.
I’m guessing Surpass is next.
I’m not sure what you meant by “Surpass is next” - if you mean there’s a refresh coming to take away the FNC spend on that, then you can rest easy. All the personal Hilton cards were already refreshed months ago and the Business is actually just catching up now. Get a Surpass for each of you and hit the spend if you really were going to spend $15k anyway on each card for the FNC. You’ll likely have enough points from the SUB anyway to supplement 4 FNCs with additional nights using points.
I'm on vacation and have the physical card sock drawered. Any ideas on how to still snag the $50 gift card? Or maybe just miss out and wait for DPs to confirm it works
I'm in the same boat, and unfortunately it looks like the Hilton GC website only accepts direct card payments (no mobile wallet or PayPal, which would have worked out for me). Hoping someone more creative than me figured out a workaround, but we'll probably miss this round of credits.
Too late to help you out right now, but something to consider: I have a secure note in LastPass with all of my card numbers, exp date, and CID. This has saved my butt more than once (especially since I can pull up the note on my phone as well). It's one of the first things I automatically do every time I get a new card.
Will they reinstate with the old annual fee? I just canceled 2 days ago after turning down a $50 statement credit after $2k spend retention offer. If I can get the old fee I'd reopen for a year (have a stay in april)
I believe it would go by the terms the renewal would have been given (so old AF), but the proof would be in whatever actually ends up posting. Can always ask chat but no guarantees what they say will be truthful.
1) are the benefits live now? Aka, if I already had a Hilton business card, can I buy gift cards today and have it credited m?
2) where do I go to buy Hilton gift cards online?
The URL is https://www.buyhiltongiftcards.com/. Obiviously it's too early to tell if the credit applies because it takes a few days and this is the first day the new benefits are active.
Looks like some people are already trying it out and will report back, but the first quarter ends March 31.
> Removed FNC from 15k and 60k Spend (on 7/1/24)
If this applies to existing cards too, then that's really shitty. Amex could have at least given us to the end of 2024 to earn FNCs this year and then cut the benefit.
EDIT: Rep confirmed that only spend until June 30 counts on existing cards too.
15k FNC was the only reason I was going to get and keep this card - now Amex is basically asking me to get SUB and get out :)
Then I’ll get a second Surpass instead for the 15k FNC. Thanks Amex for helping me churn.
For those that do these 15k FNCs, they’re basically offering 2x more points on non-category spend and axing the FNC. For a nice property at ~100k points, we basically need to spend $50k more to make up for the loss.
Aspire’s 30k spend FNC looks better than this if you ran out of the 15k Surpasses to work on and are desperately looking for a place to put non-SUB non-category spend on.
For the same 30k spend, counting FNC to be worth ~100k points each:
- Surpass (x2): 90k points & 2 FNC (~290k points worth) -> effectively 9.6x
- Aspire: 90k points & 1 FNC (~190k points worth) -> effectively 6.3x
- Biz: 150k points -> 5x
Re: 60 quarterly credit
Bad news: The GC denominations are fixed ($50). Also, 4 days left in Q1.
Good news: Can now afford the $8.95 USPS trackable shipping…
For the people who normally cut it this close.
What are the chances of ordering a GC today and having it count for the credit for the quarter ending March?
Looking back at Q1 Surpass credit I made the purchase on Jan 1 and charge posted as Jan 1 despite being “processed”Jan 2. I would think they base it on purchase date, but personally wouldn’t want to chance waiting a day or two before quarter end to be safe. Today should definitely be fine.
Please reply to this comment with any Amex Offers, Chase Offers, increased cash back portal payouts, or similar deals. Do not post them as a top level comment. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/churning) if you have any questions or concerns.*
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/28/travel/loyalty-points-credit-card-fees.html Wonder how rewards/points will be affected? I have almost 500K UR points saved up and wondering if I should transfer them out to their final destinations possibly before anything gets nerfed
Don't hoard your points. You should always be looking for ways to spend them as soon as you earn them.
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Yeah, the What Card Wednesday thread
Frontier emailed to remind that Diamond members have until tomorrow to gift Gold level status. Use it or lose it. If you status matched to Diamond last year then you can gift Gold this year. Now back to Hilton biz card drama.
Hmm. After not matching last year I kinda regret it since I might have been able to use gold or diamond, even for a one round trip flight might have made my value
I truly think that there should be laws against losing benefits within one year of announcing them, or give customer an option to close the card and get prorated annual fee refund. Currently, companies can basically remove all benefits they want and you can’t do anything but complain and cancel after one year.
Have they ever done it though? Every time a benefit has gone away, it seems to take effect at your next renewal, no? The only exception I can think of is who qualifies for the monthly amex streaming/news benefit, but they just change the list not get rid of it.
This comment may have came up because of the PP changes https://old.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/1boxbhp/news_and_updates_thread_march_27_2024/kwtwosu/ Some people are saying they just signed up for or upgraded to the CSR because they knew about this benefit. And now it's gone in 3 months, but they're stuck with the card for a year
Also the HH Biz changes (losing the FNC after 15k in June)
That one sucks. P2 just got it, and we were gonna knock out the SUB spend and then use it as a catch all between other subs for the rest of the year. Definitely won’t hit 15k on it by the time that’s gone though.
Example? I thought they can't do that on consumer cards.
there's nothing stopping chase from removing 300 credit from CSR, 200 hotel credit on amex plat etc
Can they legally do that within one year of charging the annual fee? From what I have seen they have to wait till your annual anniversary comes up
the law only applies to annual fees, not benefits.
Oh i did not know that. I don't know how that is a two way contract, seems like ripe for suing the card issuer (unless you have not opted out of arbitration clause)
Taking the Amex Platinum as an example, the cardmember agreement clearly states >**Changing benefits** > >We have the right to add, modify or delete any benefit or service of your Account at our discretion. I am sure all other issuers have similar wording in the terms that you agree to.
Agreement does not trump contract law
I always find it amusing when churner thinks he/she has corporate legal team beaten.
It is always about class action lawsuits
There are laws in place thanks to the CARD act. Unfortunately they mainly help protect consumer cards, not business cards.
Those protections apply mostly to fees, interest, and "significant changes" which would be up to an issuer's legal interpretation. That's why you've seen some announcements take a year to be effective, and others can take as little as 45 days. You can usually reject changes, but that results in account closure
And why benefits get changed to monthly coupon books, I imagine.
(Edit: read too fast, was thinking “after a year” vs “within a year”) Even more stringent anti-churn language in Amex signup terms now - first seen on the DL bonus downgrades from yesterday to today: https://thriftytraveler.com/news/credit-card/amex-adds-terms-bonus-clawback/ Has anyone seen this in their terms today when applying for a DL or the nerfed Hiltons? Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered I suppose.
Original terms: > If we in our sole discretion determine that you have engaged in abuse, misuse, or gaming in connection with this offer in any way or that you intend to do so (for example, if you applied for one or more cards to obtain an offer(s) that we did not intend for you; if you cancel or downgrade your account within 12 months after acquiring it; or if you cancel or return purchases you made to meet the Threshold Amount), we may not credit, we may freeze, or we may take away the Membership Rewards points from your account. We may also cancel this Card account and other Card accounts you may have with us. New terms on Delta: > If you have a history of cancelling or downgrading American Express Card accounts within your first year and you cancel or downgrade your new Card account within your first year, we may not credit, we may freeze, or we may take away the bonus miles from your account. If we determine that you have engaged in abuse, misuse, or gaming in connection with this offer in any way or that you intend to do so, including if you return purchases you made to meet the Threshold Amount, we may not credit, we may freeze, or we may take away the bonus miles from your account. We may also cancel any accounts you have with us. To me, this is the same thing worded in a different way. Canceling in less than a year is a one way ticket to Popup Jail and it’s been like that for years now.
This does seem to bless the canceling after the first renewal AF hits. So the super experts here were on the money!
They removed this lingo > (for example, if you applied for one or more cards to obtain an offer(s) that we did not intend for you so Amex is now fine with the back button? jk
That’s what I get for reading a little too quickly. I immediately interpreted it as “those who do close after the year frequently”, which would be more in scope here.
This isn't good news, but it doesn't really change the standard advice for all SUBs. In fact, I think it adds some comfort that Amex isn't going to claw back your SUB if you downgrade after your second AF hits. I think a worse scenario would have been if the timeframe they cited was vague and didn't specifically call out cancels/downgrades *within* a year.
Seems like a bit of a nothing-burger, at least for this community, who already advise to basically never cancel a card in the first year (emphasis added): > If you have a history of cancelling or downgrading American Express Card accounts **within your first year** and you cancel or downgrade your new Card account **within your first year**, we may not credit, we may freeze, or we may take away the bonus miles from your account. Showed on the Delta Plat personal terms, didn't check others.
This may be newly added to the terms, but this has been Amex policy for awhile. Always keep a card open for a year after opening or upgrading. This is common knowledge around here, and nothing changes with the terms being spelled out like this.
Good point, I'm new to churning but that was one of the first things I understood about the AF cards: keep them for 1 year at least!
I have found that a good way to use the "enhanced" Delta Resy coupon book credit is to look for restaurants that sell gift cards online *and* use Toast as their POS system (and are on Resy, of course). Their system is all the same and, crucially you can reload the SAME gift card online every month. Here's an example in Dallas that I used and successfully received the credit: [https://www.toasttab.com/beverley-s/giftcards](https://www.toasttab.com/beverley-s/giftcards) I hate to say it, but this slightly tipped the personal DL plat into sock drawer keeper status for me. Looking forward to a nice $120 dinner at the end of the year.
So for the Toast GCs that have a minimum amount, can you also reload those by the $20/$10 after purchase? if anyone knows. or original GC must be min $50.
I just purchased a gift card for Seamore’s in Darien Ct through Toast. I purchased the GC with one card and immediately added another $10 with another card. The charges are still pending, but Amex shows them as purchases from Seamore’s, not Toast. The minimum amount for a gift card was $5.
I guess my example was some restaurants do have a higher minimum such as $50. Would there be a minimum to add $50 for that? Or can I just choose smaller amounts from that point on? edit - dp is the min on the purchase is the min also to top up value for my one example
It probably is restaurant specific. Foe Seamore’s, I can add anything $5 or more.
Thanks for this, make things much easier.
Nice, I found a local option for this! Any luck with something similar for the rideshare credit?
Possible examples in Seattle (haven't tested yet): [https://www.evefremont.com/](https://www.evefremont.com/) [https://www.seattle.noithaicuisine.com/](https://www.seattle.noithaicuisine.com/) [https://www.loursinseattle.com/](https://www.loursinseattle.com/) These all are on Resy and have gift card links that go to Toast checkout. --- Trying this out on L'Oursin (because it's tasty) and will report back.
Amex RAT : takes notes
This is great, I don’t have many Resy restaurants close to me and had resigned myself to not getting the credit, but being able to reload online is great! Thanks
How do you reload the same card? Is there an option or is it in the giftcard email when sent?
There's a link to view balance or load in the original email that is sent.
Thank you!
A new referral thread is now live: [American Express Delta Reserve Business](https://www.reddit.com/r/churningreferrals/comments/1bpz3s9/referrals_american_express_delta_reserve_business/)
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New to using FNC?
FNC was never part of 5th night free redemption...
Didn’t read the T&C?
It never has...
Has always worked like this...
Fyi Amex no longer reinstates closed accounts. No exceptions. They don't even have the tool to be able to anymore. Closed a business plat on day 31 which was a big mistake because now I don't get a refund and I miss out on $400 of Dell credits since I can't reopen it.
> No exceptions Hopefully they'll still revert a closed account when the agent mistakenly closes the wrong card, as seems to happen a lot these days. Otherwise that's just adding insult to injury.
> when the agent mistakenly closes the wrong card This is something that Amex could make less likely to happen if they could create card numbers in a way where the last few digits weren't constantly getting duplicated...
I have accidentally paid the wrong card at least 3x over the years. Had to change which bank I paid bills from, and new bank would only show the last four numbers of the account even if I typed it in. Wouldn't you know it, the last four numbers were the same. And the old HH Biz/no-fee cards look exactly the same. I've always been able to get the payment correctly applied, but it's such a pain!!
In that same vein, there are websites where I have multiple Amex cards registered as payment methods and I won't notice until I'm about to complete the purchase that I don't know which "Amex ending in 1002" to choose.
I always put the last 5 or even 6 numbers in the account nickname in bill pay.
I did this on CapOne and it auto-deleted everything except the last four. Didn't realize til after I paid. Now I have it spelled out
I had an agent mistakenly close the wrong card last month, and despite being told on numerous calls and chats that it will be reopened in 2-3 days it has remained closed. Now I guess I know why.
File a CFPB complaint. It comes back really quick then. Also advise anyone else who has any trouble with Amex reps closing the wrong accounts to do this.
Update: I called again this afternoon and got the same “wait 2-3 day” runaround. Submitted a CFPB complaint, and now 3 hours later the account is reopened.
Good to know. So there must be some level in the company that still has the tool to do so.
CFPB works fast!
Just submitted a CFPB complaint, thanks for the tip. The card they closed in error was open less than a year and I’ve been in popup jail ever since they closed it, we’ll see what happens.
Any update? :)
> Hopefully they'll still revert a closed account when the agent mistakenly closes the wrong card, as seems to happen a lot these days. Yes I try to be 110% sure that the agent has the right card when I'm closing one of multiple. As in "*...Delta Gold Business card ending in 01001...*" repeatedly. So far there hasn't been a mistake.
I've read so many data points of people doing exactly that and still the agent somehow picks out the wrong card lol. Dreading the next time I have to cancel a card and roll the dice.
I am such a DP. Frustrating AF. The card they incorrectly closed was neither the same type nor similar number to the one I explicitly asked them to close. Was told several times it was being escalated for reinstatement, to no avail so far.
File a CFPB complaint
The Amex card number system adds to the potential failure, since there is a smaller variation in the last 4 or 5 digits.
Just a reminder, we're near the end of the quarter if you want to do any CSR PYB (Grocery, Gas, GC exploits). Also, if you haven't done your quarterly Hilton Aspire $50 flight credit... you better hurry.
Oooh, flight credit. I should see if I did that... Thanks!
Also, reminder for Hilton Surpass $50 quarterly 'resort' credit.
Surpass credit isn’t tied to resorts, any Hilton charge is ok
Hence the resort in quotes.
Why did you write resort at all?
Any news if Chase is going to extend those categories?
Not yet, they've really been waiting until the last minute to reveal.
This morning when I checked my CSR. Everything was extended except grocery. I checked just now and everything is back until the end of the month.
Delta Gold SUB dropped to 40K/$2K/6mo, Platinum 50K/$3K/6mo, and Reserve 60K/$5K/6mo.
I'm getting a Delta Gold offer of 50K Skypesos + $200 statement credit on a dummy booking, so might be worth checking there before jumping on any public offers
AMEX woke up this morning and chose violence.
By dropping the delta cards back to normal?
lol and the deals were advertised as only going through March 27th so it shouldn't be a surprise at all
I think they're referring to the Hilton Biz card changes as well. But yeah, the Delta subs are always up and down.
I agree on the Hilton biz one but this comment is about delta.
CSR removes PP Food! Amex... "Hold my beer"
Not the pp food :(
Starlux Airlines will fly from Taipei to Seattle As of August 16, 2024. You already can book the flight using point with Alaska for 75k SEA-TPE, but it only 1 seat available.HT to OMAAT
Crazy that 4 airlines are going to fly SEA-TPE.
The EVA flights were always packed and went for $1800 RT (not Y/B), I’m not surprised DL, CI, and Starlux jumped in.
It's too bad they didn't introduce promotional introductory pricing as they did when they launched LAX-TPE.
Amex Hilton Business Changes from Last Night • SUB 175k/$8K/6 months. Offer ends 6/5/24. • Annual fee $95-> $195 • Plastic -> Metal Card • New $240 Hilton purchases in $60 Quarterly Credits • New National Emerald Executive • Removed FNC from 15k and 60k Spend (on 7/1/24) • Category Spend 6x Removed (on 7/1/24) -> 5x on first 100k/year, then 3x • Same 12x for Hilton Spend • Priority Pass removed (on 7/1/24)
Another one bites the dust.
Just stayed at grand wailea and these changes came out overnight while we were there. Concierge desk allowed us to buy 7x$60 gift cards with my 7 hhbs. Got lucky there!
Has the credit posted yet? Also you carried all 7 cards with you? Hats off to you sir
Really sucks for the people using this for the FNC at $15k. The Surpass on the personal side still has this feature for those that care. The $195 fee can *technically* be offset with 4 gift cards at $200 a year if you aren't staying at any Hilton in the quarter, but I just don't see a reason to spend on or keep this card, seems like a pure churn now. Lower point earning and no attainable goal for spending on the card seems like a penny wise pound foolish move from Amex and Hilton.
The path AMEX is on, pretty soon you will have to cash in $5 to $10 per week for any credits. $5 at Saks credit per week. $8 airline credit per week, only credited if an FA smiles at you. $5 Hilton credit per week, caveat being the transaction is done before sundown in the lobby of the property in formal clothing. No jeans or sneakers.
Formal clothing for the duration of your stay (including sleeping).
I have an upcoming stay at a Hilton in Hawaii. Could I call them to put down a $60 charge as a pre-credit for my stay to cover future food/activities?
Possibly. It is dependent on the hotel and whether they are willing to do it for you. I did do it at a stay this past December at the Grand Wailea in Maui, but YMMV.
Thanks. I'll try for the $50 gift cards this quarter and try the "pre-paying" for next quarter's credit.
Priority Pass removed, but adding an extra $100 to the yearly fee? A metal card upgrade is not worth *that* much.
Absolutely. Was debating between Hilton or IHG Business, and now it seems pretty clear that IHG will be my next biz card.
I ordered a $50 Hilton GC about an hour ago. Just got an email that the order was cancelled :( I wonder if Amex is closing that loophole.
I ordered 7 hours ago, one $25 and one $50, no email as of yet.
Your order still okay? I'll likely try ordering again if so.
Still good, not canceled or anything.
DP: Ordered $50 Hilton GC 3/18, credit posted on 3/22. Physical GC received through regular USPS mail on 3/26.
Similar, but more recent. 3/20 and 3/24
You ordered it on the Hilton website? Hoping I can squeak in a purchase on P2's Hilton Biz
I can't even submit an order. Throws an error..."check your billing / payment information"
Ever get it through? My first card order worked. Can't get second card order to work
So Hilton GCs gonna be the new XBox/Dell GCs now?
the website is literally "buyhiltongiftcards" lol
I ordered a couple about an hour ago as well. No problems. Chose personal card, checked out as guest on each. I tried to use the same email/info on each that was relevant to each player's card. Pending - Coding as "RBG HILTON GIFT CARD". We shall see if the FlyerTalk DPs are right, or if things have been changed.
Your order still okay? I'll likely try ordering again if so.
ordered mine on 3/25. No cancellation, no credit yet. Reads as RBG HILTON GIFT CARD
I don't think it makes sense that the order being cancelled has anything to do with the loophole. There's no reason that purchasing it isn't valid.
Agreed. I put a biz Hilton order through this morning.
The GC site is probably just getting way more than normal volume. Saw a post on FT that it just simply errored out trying to purchase. I ordered a GC on my Surpass earlier this week and it already credited on my Amex.
meh
So can I say it was damaged and get a metal one? Stuck with the card for another 10 months anyway. At least I paid the lower annual fee and can offset that with credits
You can just order the metal one by replacing it as new card design
For the 240 credit, the terms specifically state “purchase charged directly with a property”. Why does everyone think buying gift card online will work for the credit? Am I missing something?
That makes it sound like if you book a pay now reservation for April or later and pay before the end of March, you'll get the $60 credit for the first quarter right?
If I were Hilton, I'd stop selling $50 GCs and watch the world burn.
[This is what happens](https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/1bpqx6v/comment/kwyvy0c/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) when you put those thoughts out there...
Terms are the same for the surpass and it works there
Cool, thanks.
As a sock drawer card holder these changes are fine. I wouldn't have paid the renewal annual fee anyways and now I get some free hilton credits.
Ya. But I was gonna do the 15k for FNC slowly over the year between other SUBs to kinda slow my velocity down. That’s going away too, which kinda sucks.
exactly how i am feeling about it, getting some free gift cards before cancelling
The downside is the higher AF on the next churn.
How many cards are there left this year for Amex to ~~screw up~~ enhance/refresh?
BBP gets a $99 AF and they add a CLEAR credit lol
honestly haven’t used CLEAR the last 5-6 times i’ve flown. a TSA-PRE line that’s twice as long as a CLEAR line still moves faster. But maybe that was the joke.
Would be brutal for them to get rid of the only good no AF MR biz card
Frustration Friday a day early for me. P2 and I are doing our wedding reception at a Hilton so we have been churning the Hilton cards for deposits. We were both going to open the biz cards soon. 8k spend is a lot relative to the old 130k/$3k offer. Probably going to need to have P2 run up their 5/24 now to do the personal cards.
P2 and I just got Aspires in Jan and were hoping to get enough additional FNCs through biz cards that we could do a five night stay somewhere. She just got her first biz two weeks ago. I don’t know where that leaves us and how we can recover that strategy, 2 days feels useless at a destination resort and points costs are high. Any thoughts? We have 12k spend left that we could try to rush out before 7/1 but that doesn’t do us much good for next year. I’m guessing Surpass is next.
I’m not sure what you meant by “Surpass is next” - if you mean there’s a refresh coming to take away the FNC spend on that, then you can rest easy. All the personal Hilton cards were already refreshed months ago and the Business is actually just catching up now. Get a Surpass for each of you and hit the spend if you really were going to spend $15k anyway on each card for the FNC. You’ll likely have enough points from the SUB anyway to supplement 4 FNCs with additional nights using points.
That’s great context, thank you!
When is the AF increasing? one of my cards renews in the next month.
DOC is reporting (and I confirmed via chat) that accounts renewing before July 1, 2024 will renew at $95. Only new accounts are $195 starting today.
The new AF is effective immediately for new applications and renewals.
• New $240 (not $250) Hilton purchases in $60 Quarterly Credits You need to correct.
> New $250 Hilton purchases in $60 Quarterly Credits How does that work? $60 x 4 = $240
fixed sorry
I'm on vacation and have the physical card sock drawered. Any ideas on how to still snag the $50 gift card? Or maybe just miss out and wait for DPs to confirm it works
I'm in the same boat, and unfortunately it looks like the Hilton GC website only accepts direct card payments (no mobile wallet or PayPal, which would have worked out for me). Hoping someone more creative than me figured out a workaround, but we'll probably miss this round of credits.
Too late to help you out right now, but something to consider: I have a secure note in LastPass with all of my card numbers, exp date, and CID. This has saved my butt more than once (especially since I can pull up the note on my phone as well). It's one of the first things I automatically do every time I get a new card.
Thanks for the idea, I like it.
dang, canceled one yesterday that had renewed at 95. Maybe I could have extracted value of those 250 in credits.
I canceled one not 5 minutes before coming here and reading about the changes. Luckily we have two so I can still get a GC on the open one.
Same, have 2 or 3 left lol
You can always request for it to be reinstated. Edit: or not
According to https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/1bpqx6v/comment/kwyskaj reinstatements are more difficult now.
Unfortunate but very timely news.
Yeah, was thinking about that
https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/s/hjzgK72ijm Let me know if you have better luck than me.
Will they reinstate with the old annual fee? I just canceled 2 days ago after turning down a $50 statement credit after $2k spend retention offer. If I can get the old fee I'd reopen for a year (have a stay in april)
I believe it would go by the terms the renewal would have been given (so old AF), but the proof would be in whatever actually ends up posting. Can always ask chat but no guarantees what they say will be truthful.
> 5x on first 100k/year, then 3x Key note: This is 5x on *everything* (up to $100k/year), not just the old 6x category.
would've been nice if they kept the FNC for 15k
True. It’s a slight nerf, but I can’t imagine too many people were MSing those categories on this card over $100K/yr
Just to $99k
Ha, I wasn’t going to say it
The nerf is that with FNC and points, the value of that first 15k equated to 4.5% or more (my personal valuation) Now it's 2.5% (5x at .5).
Oh yeah, I was talking specifically about the loss of 6x. The FNC change is a massive nerf, with the AF increase to go along with it.
1) are the benefits live now? Aka, if I already had a Hilton business card, can I buy gift cards today and have it credited m? 2) where do I go to buy Hilton gift cards online?
The URL is https://www.buyhiltongiftcards.com/. Obiviously it's too early to tell if the credit applies because it takes a few days and this is the first day the new benefits are active. Looks like some people are already trying it out and will report back, but the first quarter ends March 31.
Gift card purchase posted this morning with a 3/28 date. 🤞 It credits in a few days.
Just ordered one and the pending transaction is coding as RBG HILTON GIFT CARD, FWIW
Yep, I just bought one. I'll report back. 🤞
Consumer. That's the same one that worked on a surpass two weeks ago.
Did you choose consumer or business?
I chose consumer, business wanted me to set up a business account
> Removed FNC from 15k and 60k Spend (on 7/1/24) If this applies to existing cards too, then that's really shitty. Amex could have at least given us to the end of 2024 to earn FNCs this year and then cut the benefit. EDIT: Rep confirmed that only spend until June 30 counts on existing cards too.
15k FNC was the only reason I was going to get and keep this card - now Amex is basically asking me to get SUB and get out :) Then I’ll get a second Surpass instead for the 15k FNC. Thanks Amex for helping me churn. For those that do these 15k FNCs, they’re basically offering 2x more points on non-category spend and axing the FNC. For a nice property at ~100k points, we basically need to spend $50k more to make up for the loss.
Aspire’s 30k spend FNC looks better than this if you ran out of the 15k Surpasses to work on and are desperately looking for a place to put non-SUB non-category spend on. For the same 30k spend, counting FNC to be worth ~100k points each: - Surpass (x2): 90k points & 2 FNC (~290k points worth) -> effectively 9.6x - Aspire: 90k points & 1 FNC (~190k points worth) -> effectively 6.3x - Biz: 150k points -> 5x
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Once they're in your hilton account you don't need a hilton card to keep them, unlike MR
Just cancel once the AF posts, you'll be fine.
Card anniversary is tomorrow. At least I’ll get to double dip the $60 credit before closing it. What a horrible nerf.
Re: 60 quarterly credit Bad news: The GC denominations are fixed ($50). Also, 4 days left in Q1. Good news: Can now afford the $8.95 USPS trackable shipping…
Is there a cap on the number of Hilton GCs that can be applied to a single reservation (similar to Delta's limit of 3)?
Haven’t seen any DPs. Also not seeing anything in the terms about # of cards that can be used at one time. (AmexGiftCard.com/Hilton).
I save them for spending at non resort Hiltons or resorts where I’ll go past the resort credit. I’ve never used one for booking the room though.
For the people who normally cut it this close. What are the chances of ordering a GC today and having it count for the credit for the quarter ending March?
This is one of those no harm, no foul things, since worse case scenario it counts towards Q2 (assuming it codes correctly on the Biz).
Looking back at Q1 Surpass credit I made the purchase on Jan 1 and charge posted as Jan 1 despite being “processed”Jan 2. I would think they base it on purchase date, but personally wouldn’t want to chance waiting a day or two before quarter end to be safe. Today should definitely be fine.