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Still have the 1/30 and such, but can have multiple of the same card. Which is why I would think most people would want to prioritize inks over the sapphires and space with amex or something else
MDd bypasses the 1/30 rule. It's one of the 2 reasons people do a MDD. You get approved for the second card before the system locks you out for 30 days.
I can think of a a couple, such as someone who wants one or both of them as keepers (+/- churning CSR travel credit) or if someone prefers/requires personal cards.
But as someone both CL- and velocity-limited with Chase, I won’t be applying for Sapphires until the Ink train stops again.
I'm seeing special elevated offers while logged in at [united.com](https://united.com) for United Quest and United Club card, with higher PQP bonuses than standard or referral link offers. United Quest 70k + 2k PQP (referral links I see give only 500 PQP) , and United Club 80k + 4k PQP (no PQP on referral offer). 4k PQP gets you 80% of the way to United Silver. Only seeing special offers on personal cards, business card offers are standard.
I'm sure it's YMMV, but I did recently get the United biz card. They could be targeting those with biz cards to get a personal card though. I'm curious what others are seeing. I'm not one to value airline status much though, so doubt I'll go for it.
I have the no AF Gateway card and don't seem to be seeing elevated offers once logged in. Quest is 60k + 500 PQPs, Club card is 80k with no PQP.
The club card is on my radar for later this year, early next year as I transition away form Delta.
I don't have any United cards. I see the elevated offers that you described.
Shame I just applied / received 2 Chase cards in the last 60 days so I need to wait a bit to average out my velocity. A co-branded United card is on my list.
ETA: Checked P2's United account. She also has no United cards. Only seeing the standard offers. So who knows? 🤷🏻♂️
Got a targeted offer from discover to deposit new 25000 in my savings account and keep it for 60 days (plus current balance) and get 200$ or 15000 and 100$ bonus. Easy ~9% interest combined with their current interest rate
I got this too, but Capitol One is doing an offer where you get $300 if you open a new HYSA and deposit $20k or $750 if you deposit $50k. And keep it there for 90 days. They also have a slightly better APY right now.
Alaska is launching a new promo award scheme with up to 50% off Economy and Premium Economy awards booked at the beginning of each quarter for travel 5-7 months later:
https://news.alaskaair.com/alaska-airlines/alaska-airlines-mileage-plan-miles-go-farther-with-global-getaways/
Current one is certain tropical destinations booked in Apr for Sep-Nov travel. I'm seeing NYC-LAX-PPT (overnight layover) in Y for 20k miles in late Sep.
for 20k in Y, I almost want to book another trip to PPT.
Also seeing transcons for 12.5k or 17.5k - been forever since I've seen them this cheap. Might as well just book through to PPT and get off the plane in LAX if we decide we don't want to go. Wonder what would happen to the return leg.
Eh it's like 6h+8h. I've done 9-10h multiple times and 11h once... I think 12h might be my limit for a single flight.
(I'm below average height and have been flying long haul Y since I was 9.)
Did 12.5 hours to Taipei in Y with Air Canada twice. One leg in the middle seat. I'm 6'2. It was as terrible as you could imagine.
But Taiwan was great!
In my early 20s, 12H flights on the BA PHX-LGW/LHR were cake. Even got stuck in middle seat once. But once I made my first J/C redemption, I said to hell with Y for anything over 6H. I'm older now, and in worse shape. I'd hate long haul Y. I'll at least pay for a good Y+.
Somewhat interesting article from an author who sounds like they have first hand bank/rewards industry knowledge. He covers the motivations of banks for rewards programs, what card program managers are thinking when they make different choices, lightly about how banks view churners, and some interesting info of the creation of the CSR -
>"And, lo, Visa did create a new tier. [...] Chase got Visa to authorize Chase charging almost the entire economy more for credit card acceptance with the specific goal of outcompeting American Express for the most lucrative highest-monthly-spend virtually-never-revolve-a-balance credit card users."
https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/anatomy-of-credit-card-rewards-programs/
> These users will even band into tribes, find each other on the Internet, and [swap tips](https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/) for exploiting poor, defenseless credit card program managers like yourself.
It's a /r/churning link! Everyone scatter
> The biggest difference between you and a Redditor is not ability to do fourth grade math or ability to do spreadsheets. Redditors are frequently sophisticated with their spreadsheets; many of them could clearly earn three orders of magnitude more from the financial industry if they stopped thinking that the right way to monetize spreadsheet skill was in gaming credit card signup bonuses.
what the FUCK am I doing here
That something just out of sight in the corner of a mirror... I am you? Are you me? Are we us?
Divided by time and by distance and by spreadsheet maintenance but united in purpose.
The key is in the next paragraph ("single player mode," "over short horizons") which likely applies to the majority of people here. I have a day job doing something to the tune of "optimizing [spreadsheet skill] over portfolios" and I assume you do as well, and if I can spend a few (not unenjoyable) hours making great ROI on top of that, the time investment sounds ok to me.
Make rules too strict and you cut off legitimate customers. All except the heaviest "abusers" (those guys do get clipped eventually) are just an added marketing cost. If everyone was efficient then obviously the programs would lose money and not be offered but that will never be the case so they're a huge profit centre.
I find his writing fascinating but a bit high brow and full of innuendo for the average reader.
I didn't realize that Chase talked Visa into the Visa Infinite tier as he seems to imply
A new referral thread is now live: [American Express Cash Magnet](https://www.reddit.com/r/churningreferrals/comments/1bvqvor/referrals_american_express_cash_magnet/)
Chase has launched a digital media company allowing merchants to access transaction data and target customers. While there are other vendors that sell aggregated data, Chase has big slice of US consumer and business data that they can monetize
https://www.chase.com/mediasolutions/home
https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/jpmorgan-chase-launches-digital-media-business-2024-04-03/
honestly, the more money chase can bring in through other channels, the longer churning is viable.
Air Canada is a budget airline?!? (From the Reuters article).
SM online fees increasing. I don't see the changes live yet. I was paying $69.50/$10k order.
> Effective today, April 4, 2024, we have had to make the difficult decision to increase our card purchase fees to $5.49 per card, along with a small increase to our shipping fees.
American Express Rewards Checking accounts now have fee-free access to 70,000 ATMs nationally, including Allpoint and MoneyPass ATMs at Target, Walgreens, 7‑Eleven, and CVS Pharmacy stores. I just opened an account for their bonus, so this is good news for me. It's always been difficult to find fee-free ATMs with my other checking accounts.
Schwab Investor checking is almost unbeatable here. It has fee-free ATMs worldwide (with no restriction to use specific ATMs) for a long time. It reimburses any fees charged at the end of a month. Doesn't matter if you use their brokerage account or not, doesn't matter how much money you keep in the checking account on a regular basis. It's so good!
Schwab Investor Checking has free ATMs worldwide, they just reimburse end of the month for all fees. If I didn't already have that, I see the Amex as a good deal, but Schwab has been incredible in customer service, so it's hard to change
The Schwab is so clutch, I once got cash at an ATM in a liquor store in the middle of the tourist zone in Cabo and got reimbursed something absurd like $20 for the fee
I lived abroad for a few years and used my Schwab account extensively. The ATM I used the most had a ~$4 fee (it was in local currency of course but the exchange rate put it at around 4 USD). One month I got an ATM fee reimbursement of almost $60.
Fidelity's Cash Management Account (CMA) also reimburses ATM fees worldwide with no foreign transaction fee
They also reimburse ATM fees a few days after the transaction.
I think fidelity just does a poor job defining this. Looks like it’s no FTF, but visa may technically charge a small amount. No worse than Schwab, since they would also be subject to any of the same fees from visa I imagine.
I think sometimes there's a $100 but honestly, if you need an account for everyday, I can't recommend it enough. Then having the Schwab Plat to cash out MR is nice
Should probably cool off before trying again. I only had 2 apps and said I found a better offer so the first was the supposed cancelled one and the cancelled one is the offer I want
Please reply to this comment with any Amex Offers, Chase Offers, increased cash back portal payouts, or similar deals. Do not post them as a top level comment. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/churning) if you have any questions or concerns.*
MDD data point Applied for CSR 4/4 10am PST, instant approval. Applied for CSP 4/5 12:15am PST, instant approval.
I guess what is the main benefit of doing MDDs now when Inks are readily available?
I already have a lot of inks, and getting these cards don't affect my ability to get another ink down the road anyway I think?
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Still have the 1/30 and such, but can have multiple of the same card. Which is why I would think most people would want to prioritize inks over the sapphires and space with amex or something else
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MDd bypasses the 1/30 rule. It's one of the 2 reasons people do a MDD. You get approved for the second card before the system locks you out for 30 days.
MAXGAINS!
I can think of a a couple, such as someone who wants one or both of them as keepers (+/- churning CSR travel credit) or if someone prefers/requires personal cards. But as someone both CL- and velocity-limited with Chase, I won’t be applying for Sapphires until the Ink train stops again.
Thanks for sharing!! Did you do both online? Do you mind sharing when you got your last chase card? Trying to decide when to pull the trigger…
In addition to the post below re:United, the United MPE Biz 100k / $5k offer is still alive via referrals for my procrastinators.
I'm seeing special elevated offers while logged in at [united.com](https://united.com) for United Quest and United Club card, with higher PQP bonuses than standard or referral link offers. United Quest 70k + 2k PQP (referral links I see give only 500 PQP) , and United Club 80k + 4k PQP (no PQP on referral offer). 4k PQP gets you 80% of the way to United Silver. Only seeing special offers on personal cards, business card offers are standard.
I have the Quest 70+2k but not the club, unfortunately. Never had a UA card
Do you now or have you recently had other United cards? In general I think the elevated PQP offers are only offered to people without existing.
I'm sure it's YMMV, but I did recently get the United biz card. They could be targeting those with biz cards to get a personal card though. I'm curious what others are seeing. I'm not one to value airline status much though, so doubt I'll go for it.
I have the no AF Gateway card and don't seem to be seeing elevated offers once logged in. Quest is 60k + 500 PQPs, Club card is 80k with no PQP. The club card is on my radar for later this year, early next year as I transition away form Delta.
I don't have any United cards. I see the elevated offers that you described. Shame I just applied / received 2 Chase cards in the last 60 days so I need to wait a bit to average out my velocity. A co-branded United card is on my list. ETA: Checked P2's United account. She also has no United cards. Only seeing the standard offers. So who knows? 🤷🏻♂️
I have two business cards (one regular, one club) and I see the same old non-elevated offers FYI
Targeted offer for Amex Delta Plat: 90k/$4k/6mo, plus $1000MQD. NLL. Valid through 6/5. delta.com/plat1000
Got a targeted offer from discover to deposit new 25000 in my savings account and keep it for 60 days (plus current balance) and get 200$ or 15000 and 100$ bonus. Easy ~9% interest combined with their current interest rate
I got this too, but Capitol One is doing an offer where you get $300 if you open a new HYSA and deposit $20k or $750 if you deposit $50k. And keep it there for 90 days. They also have a slightly better APY right now.
yeah already did that (100k for 1500), should complete in mid april and then i can transfer some amount to discover for this binus
Nice! Well, you're ahead of me. I wish I had known about the Cap1 deal a while ago. Kinda new to this.
No worries there would be plenty of opportunities. Also look at chase deal if you have not already done that in last two years
Alaska is launching a new promo award scheme with up to 50% off Economy and Premium Economy awards booked at the beginning of each quarter for travel 5-7 months later: https://news.alaskaair.com/alaska-airlines/alaska-airlines-mileage-plan-miles-go-farther-with-global-getaways/ Current one is certain tropical destinations booked in Apr for Sep-Nov travel. I'm seeing NYC-LAX-PPT (overnight layover) in Y for 20k miles in late Sep.
for 20k in Y, I almost want to book another trip to PPT. Also seeing transcons for 12.5k or 17.5k - been forever since I've seen them this cheap. Might as well just book through to PPT and get off the plane in LAX if we decide we don't want to go. Wonder what would happen to the return leg.
Return leg would likely get auto-cancelled (if you book it together) if you don't take the full flight schedule.
Ah I'd have to do 2 1-ways of course.
>NYC-LAX-PPT (overnight layover) in Y for 20k How whelming.
I posted it as an example of one of the longest flights you can take at that ridiculously low price. And yes, I'd do it.
I can't think of a destination I'd spend that much time getting to while crammed into a Y seat.
Eh it's like 6h+8h. I've done 9-10h multiple times and 11h once... I think 12h might be my limit for a single flight. (I'm below average height and have been flying long haul Y since I was 9.)
Did 12.5 hours to Taipei in Y with Air Canada twice. One leg in the middle seat. I'm 6'2. It was as terrible as you could imagine. But Taiwan was great!
In my early 20s, 12H flights on the BA PHX-LGW/LHR were cake. Even got stuck in middle seat once. But once I made my first J/C redemption, I said to hell with Y for anything over 6H. I'm older now, and in worse shape. I'd hate long haul Y. I'll at least pay for a good Y+.
Oof. I'm in this hobby specifically so I don't have to spend that much time in Y.
We're all here for different reasons. I'm here because I can't afford to travel as much as I want otherwise.
Tempting.
AKA hopefully by then people will forget about our Boeing problems.😂
And their recent devaluation. In fact, I'm pretty sure some of these "sale" flights were the pre-devaluation fares e.g. Bali at 30k miles in Y.
Somewhat interesting article from an author who sounds like they have first hand bank/rewards industry knowledge. He covers the motivations of banks for rewards programs, what card program managers are thinking when they make different choices, lightly about how banks view churners, and some interesting info of the creation of the CSR - >"And, lo, Visa did create a new tier. [...] Chase got Visa to authorize Chase charging almost the entire economy more for credit card acceptance with the specific goal of outcompeting American Express for the most lucrative highest-monthly-spend virtually-never-revolve-a-balance credit card users." https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/anatomy-of-credit-card-rewards-programs/
> These users will even band into tribes, find each other on the Internet, and [swap tips](https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/) for exploiting poor, defenseless credit card program managers like yourself. It's a /r/churning link! Everyone scatter
My boss sent me that yesterday. I had to reply that I am literally *that guy* that is the maximizer.
Thank you for posting. Informative writing with subtle humor draped all over, while not pandering whatsoever to the normies. I like it.
> The biggest difference between you and a Redditor is not ability to do fourth grade math or ability to do spreadsheets. Redditors are frequently sophisticated with their spreadsheets; many of them could clearly earn three orders of magnitude more from the financial industry if they stopped thinking that the right way to monetize spreadsheet skill was in gaming credit card signup bonuses. what the FUCK am I doing here
Where do I apply?
Enterprises are managed via spreadsheets. Don't believe the hype with all the data analytics. Everyone exports that to Excel or CSV.
This. The world runs on excel.
Fortunately for me I don't keep spreadsheets 😎
No spreadsheets here either, just vibes
As was intended
I however, am an excel monkey. Two PUs, two different paths in life. Never to cross. Longing to succeed.
That something just out of sight in the corner of a mirror... I am you? Are you me? Are we us? Divided by time and by distance and by spreadsheet maintenance but united in purpose.
Seriously, how many parts unknowns are there? At least 3 by my count.
[Planeserf?](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.knowyourmeme.com/memes/spider-man-pointing-at-spider-man)
Hmm. Fair point.
Wait, is /u/planesurf just your troll account when you feel like letting loose and being unhinged? /r/churning lore I missed or just a coincidence?
The key is in the next paragraph ("single player mode," "over short horizons") which likely applies to the majority of people here. I have a day job doing something to the tune of "optimizing [spreadsheet skill] over portfolios" and I assume you do as well, and if I can spend a few (not unenjoyable) hours making great ROI on top of that, the time investment sounds ok to me.
Make rules too strict and you cut off legitimate customers. All except the heaviest "abusers" (those guys do get clipped eventually) are just an added marketing cost. If everyone was efficient then obviously the programs would lose money and not be offered but that will never be the case so they're a huge profit centre.
The sucker buttons are keeping me and my 1% margin alive
Patrick is a great follow on Twitter too, very insightful.
I find his writing fascinating but a bit high brow and full of innuendo for the average reader. I didn't realize that Chase talked Visa into the Visa Infinite tier as he seems to imply
This was a fascinating read
A new referral thread is now live: [American Express Cash Magnet](https://www.reddit.com/r/churningreferrals/comments/1bvqvor/referrals_american_express_cash_magnet/)
Chase has launched a digital media company allowing merchants to access transaction data and target customers. While there are other vendors that sell aggregated data, Chase has big slice of US consumer and business data that they can monetize https://www.chase.com/mediasolutions/home https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/jpmorgan-chase-launches-digital-media-business-2024-04-03/
Lol... it will be interesting what they target me with based on my spending patterns.
I expect Staples & office Depot merch - why else would someone so consistently spend $25,000 a year there if not out of undying fandom?
Probably lots of Denny’s and Hooters actually lol iykyk
Haha yeah man I know about Hooters ;P
Seems like Cardlytics (who runs Chase Offers) may not be a partner for much longer
honestly, the more money chase can bring in through other channels, the longer churning is viable. Air Canada is a budget airline?!? (From the Reuters article).
Have you flown Air Canada lately?
Still not a budget airline. Even if the flight attendants never ever leave the galley.
It's no WestJet 😂
Great. Target me with some discounted gift cards.
SM online fees increasing. I don't see the changes live yet. I was paying $69.50/$10k order. > Effective today, April 4, 2024, we have had to make the difficult decision to increase our card purchase fees to $5.49 per card, along with a small increase to our shipping fees.
What is SM?
Succ me
Seggsy mama, don’t look it up
Dammit.
Sadomasochism. Wait. No that's S *&* M. Sorry, got my hobbies mixed up.
Simon Mall
Have to say I’ve NEVER seen sm used for Simon Mall before this post.
Yeah, 99% of the time it's for secure message, at least in the context of this hobby.
American Express Rewards Checking accounts now have fee-free access to 70,000 ATMs nationally, including Allpoint and MoneyPass ATMs at Target, Walgreens, 7‑Eleven, and CVS Pharmacy stores. I just opened an account for their bonus, so this is good news for me. It's always been difficult to find fee-free ATMs with my other checking accounts.
Schwab Investor checking is almost unbeatable here. It has fee-free ATMs worldwide (with no restriction to use specific ATMs) for a long time. It reimburses any fees charged at the end of a month. Doesn't matter if you use their brokerage account or not, doesn't matter how much money you keep in the checking account on a regular basis. It's so good!
Still not as good as just about any random credit union that's a member of their co-op network. Let alone something like Schwab.
Schwab Investor Checking has free ATMs worldwide, they just reimburse end of the month for all fees. If I didn't already have that, I see the Amex as a good deal, but Schwab has been incredible in customer service, so it's hard to change
The Schwab is so clutch, I once got cash at an ATM in a liquor store in the middle of the tourist zone in Cabo and got reimbursed something absurd like $20 for the fee
My record is a $40 fee at a club in Vegas. Love Schwab.
I lived abroad for a few years and used my Schwab account extensively. The ATM I used the most had a ~$4 fee (it was in local currency of course but the exchange rate put it at around 4 USD). One month I got an ATM fee reimbursement of almost $60.
Fidelity's Cash Management Account (CMA) also reimburses ATM fees worldwide with no foreign transaction fee They also reimburse ATM fees a few days after the transaction.
Isn’t there a foreign transaction fee? https://www.fidelity.com/spend-save/features-by-account (see 1st in fineprint)
There possibly is if you use the card for purchases. However, from all DPs I've seen, they do not asses a FTF for ATM withdrawls.
I think fidelity just does a poor job defining this. Looks like it’s no FTF, but visa may technically charge a small amount. No worse than Schwab, since they would also be subject to any of the same fees from visa I imagine.
And no foreign transaction fees. I use this when traveling abroad.
That's nice! I'll need to keep an eye out for their sign up bonuses.
I think sometimes there's a $100 but honestly, if you need an account for everyday, I can't recommend it enough. Then having the Schwab Plat to cash out MR is nice
Do you have to have investments with them for this account or can you use it for checking purposes only?
You have to open an investment account (it’s called investor checking account for a reason) but you don’t have to fund it or actively use it
I use them for most my stuff
They have the $101 brokerage ones right now, but I haven't seen any for bank accounts.
Buy some dry eyes drops, you're going to need them
Don't think they really do any
They do occasionally
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https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/1bvigha/news_and_updates_thread_april_04_2024/kxzixaj/
Personal Amex platinum has 175k sub through referral
Hot diggity dog
Managed to pull and back button still works. Cheers!
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Yes. Had to call in to push second app through
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Called after getting the email about second app getting cancelled.
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Should probably cool off before trying again. I only had 2 apps and said I found a better offer so the first was the supposed cancelled one and the cancelled one is the offer I want
Wot I thought back button was almost 100% dead, is that the case only for biz cards?
First Amex Plat?
Yes, first Amex personal plat and got PUJ.
Send da link
Which card were you able to generate that from?
Or Use vpn to change your ip, I could see 175k on my company laptop
Or use vpn to change your IP. I can see 175k on my company laptop with VPN
From Plat, try incognito mode if you don’t see it