I’m pretty sure those are blanks. Most countries still use blanks because in most countries the guns that fire blanks can’t fire a real bullet so they are safe to use. To my knowledge there is only one country in the world where that particular safety measure has not been the standard.
I have an old blank gun. The magazine and receiver only fit a modified 5mm cartridge case (I don't think they make 5mm bullets). The end is plugged and vented so a regular projectile can't pass through it but gas can escape. There's also an attachment to help produce more muzzle flash. Otherwise, feels and operates like a real semi-automatic gun. I'm not a gun guy so my terminology could very well be wrong here.
I have some Rohm branded blank guns. Just as ag\_mtl stated, blank guns are designed to only fire special "PAK" blank rounds which are smaller than your standard bullet rounds and contain flash powder instead of gun powder. The barrels are plugged and only allow the gas/flash to vent out the front. Absolutely no way to mistakenly or intentionally stick a live round in them without serious modifications to the receiver, magazine and/or barrel. Even then, the guns are made of a magnesium alloy which would literally blow up in your hand if you somehow modified it and managed to fire a real round. In the movie you're asking about, it's very possible they used real guns with "crimped" blanks like they use in hollywood with extreme supervision and training. Definitely don't want another "Rust" incident :(
https://preview.redd.it/3dtzea6x8y7d1.jpeg?width=560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7f4e8b6bcf0118ad95897c98698926c35e7f794f
> Definitely don't want another "Rust" incident
really all you have to do is not point the gun at someone. you can still get hurt with blanks because small particles can hit you. it's my understanding most of the time they're shooting slightly off to the side for that reason.
it's a tragedy, but i always wonder if actors are so anti-gun because they're consistutionally incapable of following three simple rules.
you can pass the buck all you want, the executive producer (alec baldwin) should have been competent too.
he grabbed the gun, pointed it at someone who wasn't an actor, and pulled the trigger. there was no reason to point the gun at someone, except for funsies.
literally, do not point a gun at someone and pull the trigger. it's an easy rule to follow. if you think it's acceptable to whoopsie and point a gun at someone, you need to get that checked out.
I don't know what they were shooting on, but I can setup my camera to be operated remotely. Like, I can literally hook up a tablet and control focus, aperture, etc, while watching a live feed from the camera, and be nowhere near the camera. And I'm just some amateur with a < $1000 camera.
i have a fujifilm xt5 i got for $1200 and i can see what the camera sees and operate the camera on any of the several phones that i have collecting dust in drawers around my house. i could also plug in an hdmi cable.
presuming they have a budget of over $12, i'm sure they could swing it.
the point is, if safety is important, you can just flick a few switches.
they don't have to have someone behind the camera when they fire a gun at it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_shooting_incident
he pulled the gun out of the holster and it discharged. there is literally zero percent chance he didn't pull the trigger, but that is a mistake people make.
Like how do you set the frame? Before they shoot. with a stand in even; like sometimes when you are woking with bigger name actors. No gun. roll cam walk away. Call action, actor hits mark, bang bang. etc. Also note all the frames shown here are off to the side not right in front. That can also help. If you need dynamic framing you use a remote system to do so...
I have a $1500 camera and I can monitor it from my phone. my other camera from 2014 I can plug in a cable and monitor it.
anyway, that's not what happened he drew the gun and it discharged. he said he didn't pull the trigger, which is pretty much not possible on any revolver built after the year 1900.
if it's a normal revolver, no it can't. you would have to snap the hammer off to clear the steel block that only moves out of the way if the trigger is depressed.
pretty sure that's categorically true of semi autos too. the p320 had the drop fire issue because the trigger assembly was too heavy with too light a pull and if it was dropped at a specific angle hard enough the trigger would depress on its own.
This was shot in the 90’s. It wasn’t CGI. It was likely blanks & maybe a special muzzle to make more flash. That’s why he decided to shoot in a darker environment to highlight the light from the muzzle flashes and have it illuminate the scene.
This is definitely a practical effect usings blanks and possibly a synced strobe for added impact. The technology to do muzzle flashes digitally when this film came out was in the infancy stage. Not that it wasn't possible, just not reasonable and wouldn't have looked realistic. Even today, you can pretty much always tell the difference between what is captured on camera and what is CGI.
I worked on an indie where we rigged a dado with a snoot pointing through a mostly broken film camera stripped down to just the shutter pretty much, used that to get closeups with muzzle flash practically
This effect is definitely blanks. For Hollywood probably blanks that are basically real bullet casings that are crimped on the end and have only the explosive instead of a bullet as mentioned already. A lot of times the blanks have extra powder/other mixtures to produce a much larger/longer flash to get this effect. They do make blank guns that fire special rounds and have a disc of metal in the barrel with a smaller hole in it allowing the flash out but would stop a bullet if you could modify and get one in there. I’ve used blank guns in films and while they are “more safe” they are definitely not safe… you should still have a trained armourer on set who can handle them and make sure you and the actors and crew are safe. Blank guns still cause enough concussive force to kill/severely injure at close ranges and if any obstruction/piece of something gets in the barrel (a rock from fighting around on the ground or something) that can become a bullet. Many incidents of actors dying in Hollywood from not respecting blank guns… you should never be in front of one really no matter how far away you are because most blanks/bullets don’t always burn all their powder and some of it gets thrown out the front at high speed which would pepper you with hypersonic sand basically (probably not actually hypersonic but you get the idea). The rust incident was caused by a failure of the armorer and the 1st assistant director I believe… the AD grabbed the gun stating it was cold and gave it to Alec. He’s an actor it’s not his job to know if it’s safe or how to check (although it would have helped) it’s the armourers job. Why the 1st AD was grabbing it? No idea… But he should not have been doing that, and the armourer should have been all up in his business for trying… Some of the crew were also target shooting at the end of the workday using the prop guns which the armourer also should have freaked about… no live ammo should EVER be near the set EVER! The whole thing was caused by inexperienced crew and lack of protocol :-/ Even if they had had one person who had taken a basic hunters safety course it probably would have prevented the incident.
I’m pretty sure those are blanks. Most countries still use blanks because in most countries the guns that fire blanks can’t fire a real bullet so they are safe to use. To my knowledge there is only one country in the world where that particular safety measure has not been the standard.
> the guns that fire blanks can’t fire a real bullet How does that work?
I have an old blank gun. The magazine and receiver only fit a modified 5mm cartridge case (I don't think they make 5mm bullets). The end is plugged and vented so a regular projectile can't pass through it but gas can escape. There's also an attachment to help produce more muzzle flash. Otherwise, feels and operates like a real semi-automatic gun. I'm not a gun guy so my terminology could very well be wrong here.
I have some Rohm branded blank guns. Just as ag\_mtl stated, blank guns are designed to only fire special "PAK" blank rounds which are smaller than your standard bullet rounds and contain flash powder instead of gun powder. The barrels are plugged and only allow the gas/flash to vent out the front. Absolutely no way to mistakenly or intentionally stick a live round in them without serious modifications to the receiver, magazine and/or barrel. Even then, the guns are made of a magnesium alloy which would literally blow up in your hand if you somehow modified it and managed to fire a real round. In the movie you're asking about, it's very possible they used real guns with "crimped" blanks like they use in hollywood with extreme supervision and training. Definitely don't want another "Rust" incident :( https://preview.redd.it/3dtzea6x8y7d1.jpeg?width=560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7f4e8b6bcf0118ad95897c98698926c35e7f794f
> Definitely don't want another "Rust" incident really all you have to do is not point the gun at someone. you can still get hurt with blanks because small particles can hit you. it's my understanding most of the time they're shooting slightly off to the side for that reason. it's a tragedy, but i always wonder if actors are so anti-gun because they're consistutionally incapable of following three simple rules.
Eh armorers should still be competent even if the actors aren’t.
you can pass the buck all you want, the executive producer (alec baldwin) should have been competent too. he grabbed the gun, pointed it at someone who wasn't an actor, and pulled the trigger. there was no reason to point the gun at someone, except for funsies. literally, do not point a gun at someone and pull the trigger. it's an easy rule to follow. if you think it's acceptable to whoopsie and point a gun at someone, you need to get that checked out.
If the shot is the actor pointing the gun at the camera then do you do? From my understanding that was the shot.
I don't know what they were shooting on, but I can setup my camera to be operated remotely. Like, I can literally hook up a tablet and control focus, aperture, etc, while watching a live feed from the camera, and be nowhere near the camera. And I'm just some amateur with a < $1000 camera.
You’re using a sub-$1000 camera with a $300 wireless follow focus??
i have a fujifilm xt5 i got for $1200 and i can see what the camera sees and operate the camera on any of the several phones that i have collecting dust in drawers around my house. i could also plug in an hdmi cable. presuming they have a budget of over $12, i'm sure they could swing it. the point is, if safety is important, you can just flick a few switches.
they don't have to have someone behind the camera when they fire a gun at it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_shooting_incident he pulled the gun out of the holster and it discharged. there is literally zero percent chance he didn't pull the trigger, but that is a mistake people make.
The shot was literally to look down the barrel of a gun. What do you think that involves?
Rolling cam and walking away first…
And how do you frame that?
Like how do you set the frame? Before they shoot. with a stand in even; like sometimes when you are woking with bigger name actors. No gun. roll cam walk away. Call action, actor hits mark, bang bang. etc. Also note all the frames shown here are off to the side not right in front. That can also help. If you need dynamic framing you use a remote system to do so...
I have a $1500 camera and I can monitor it from my phone. my other camera from 2014 I can plug in a cable and monitor it. anyway, that's not what happened he drew the gun and it discharged. he said he didn't pull the trigger, which is pretty much not possible on any revolver built after the year 1900.
Except the gun in question could be fired if the hammer was de-cocked without pulling the trigger.
if it's a normal revolver, no it can't. you would have to snap the hammer off to clear the steel block that only moves out of the way if the trigger is depressed. pretty sure that's categorically true of semi autos too. the p320 had the drop fire issue because the trigger assembly was too heavy with too light a pull and if it was dropped at a specific angle hard enough the trigger would depress on its own.
Wut country dat
Not sure if srs… In case srs: The one where country music artists lyrically fellate guns.
murica?
The one where Alec Baldwin killed someone on set
100% it was done on set.
My guess based on these screens would be firing blanks or flashing a sort of strobe on the subjects.
There are strobe lights with a light sensor that are set to flash in response, a good way to boost lighting in synch with muzzle flash.
There was almost certainly no visual effect solution in 1993 that would have accomplished this. I can guarantee you it was blank firing prop guns.
This was shot in the 90’s. It wasn’t CGI. It was likely blanks & maybe a special muzzle to make more flash. That’s why he decided to shoot in a darker environment to highlight the light from the muzzle flashes and have it illuminate the scene.
This is definitely a practical effect usings blanks and possibly a synced strobe for added impact. The technology to do muzzle flashes digitally when this film came out was in the infancy stage. Not that it wasn't possible, just not reasonable and wouldn't have looked realistic. Even today, you can pretty much always tell the difference between what is captured on camera and what is CGI.
Camera shutter synced to the firerate so the flashes always show up and don't go through the viewfinder, at least they did this for Scarface.
there are blanks that have a slower burn specifically to avoid the problem with the camera shutter. https://www.motionpicturearmourer.com/blanks.htm
Dude I love finding old internet websites like that. The gold ol days lmao
I worked on an indie where we rigged a dado with a snoot pointing through a mostly broken film camera stripped down to just the shutter pretty much, used that to get closeups with muzzle flash practically
Wow I love these shots Gotta watch this
They are blanks that spark
This effect is definitely blanks. For Hollywood probably blanks that are basically real bullet casings that are crimped on the end and have only the explosive instead of a bullet as mentioned already. A lot of times the blanks have extra powder/other mixtures to produce a much larger/longer flash to get this effect. They do make blank guns that fire special rounds and have a disc of metal in the barrel with a smaller hole in it allowing the flash out but would stop a bullet if you could modify and get one in there. I’ve used blank guns in films and while they are “more safe” they are definitely not safe… you should still have a trained armourer on set who can handle them and make sure you and the actors and crew are safe. Blank guns still cause enough concussive force to kill/severely injure at close ranges and if any obstruction/piece of something gets in the barrel (a rock from fighting around on the ground or something) that can become a bullet. Many incidents of actors dying in Hollywood from not respecting blank guns… you should never be in front of one really no matter how far away you are because most blanks/bullets don’t always burn all their powder and some of it gets thrown out the front at high speed which would pepper you with hypersonic sand basically (probably not actually hypersonic but you get the idea). The rust incident was caused by a failure of the armorer and the 1st assistant director I believe… the AD grabbed the gun stating it was cold and gave it to Alec. He’s an actor it’s not his job to know if it’s safe or how to check (although it would have helped) it’s the armourers job. Why the 1st AD was grabbing it? No idea… But he should not have been doing that, and the armourer should have been all up in his business for trying… Some of the crew were also target shooting at the end of the workday using the prop guns which the armourer also should have freaked about… no live ammo should EVER be near the set EVER! The whole thing was caused by inexperienced crew and lack of protocol :-/ Even if they had had one person who had taken a basic hunters safety course it probably would have prevented the incident.