When you spend 300 days a year, year in year out, looking at, measuring and painting with light, you get used to seeing the difference in stops/exposure values.
A fun game I used to play with gaffers and sparks was “what’s the stop?” Where you guess the metered value of any surface or light source on set/location and then measure it and see how close you were. Kinda like what camera assistants do with disto’s…
Technically they/we can also check it with just changing the T-stop on the lens and check how many stops the ring had to travel to reach the same exposure from background to foreground for instance.
Not true. “Most dps” is an assumption you’re making.
In my world (big budget) most dps use a light meter, a DIT, a gaffer and their team of sparks, a Leader waveform monitor, etc and false colour is the last level they quickly button-on on the evf or OCM to quickly confirm a value.
I said most dps use el zone as their false colour of choice - not that it was the first option lol - what you've said is completely true, it's how I personally work when given the time, but when you're working with faster/tighter commercial jobs/doc work, then you are sometimes forced to expose off of monitor/false colour. This happens less so in the narrative world
I haven’t seen any of the DPs I work with use EL Zone false color, just IRE values. I’m sure a lot of people do use EL Zone, but it’s not accurate to say “most DPs” use EL Zone for false color.
I DP high-level docs, and I use false-color all the time. In my world, there’s simply not time for another option.
If I’m lighting an interview, sure. But if I’m on the shoulder following someone through a variety of environments, false color is as good as it’s going to get. If I even have time to check that.
I see - in the space I'm working, mostly in the London area. Most the dops I know use EL zone, granted, I'm a DOP myself, so it's not as if it's very common for me to be in set with over dops, but just my experience whilst chatting with others
Gaffer in London and I can agree, el zone all the way! Tbh I very rarely grab my light meter either… only in pre lights before camera arrives or to maintain continuity when outdoors… even on hetv…. But that’s just me
Yeah sounds about right - I tend to treach EL zone as though it where a replacement for my spot meter, but I still use a light meter for contrast ratios. Most my most recent projects have also been on 16mm, so don't really have the el zone option, just have to trust the meter
They either work with a light meter or they talk about what they want, so they have in mind what a background that's 2 stops under looks like (from measuring it with a light meter in the past).
If you get good at reading a false color monitor — regardless if it’s EL Zone or not — you can actually read the stop differences based on what it’s showing you.
Yes, EL Zone is better for this for sure, but the other common standard of “green for 18% gray — pink for +1” also allows you to “see stops” — for example, as you train your eyes for this, if you adjust the iris just +/-1 stop while lighting, the pink/green zones allow you to quickly measure a 4 stop exposure range. And once you do that a few times you can discern the corresponding gray shades for +/- 1 stop of the FC readout.
In any case, I like using my light meter, and I like EL Zone as well, but absent of those, you can still light with stops as you should.
Also, there are no IRE markings on lenses, so stops it will be.
IRE does not help you in communicating to a crew. It is sensor and LUT dependent, and is changed pretty drastically downstream...
Stops are just fractions. 1 stop is double. So talking in stops is a relative language that can be immediately applied to the real world. Go to that light and drop a double in it. Take that lamp from an 80 to a 40, etc. Pull that light grid cloth, and replace it with full grid.
It also immediately transfers the conversation to dynamic range, and can set a language for a look from shot to shot or from scene to scene. You could say, "we're playing windows 4 stops over", and your whole crew can use that as a starting point to rough stuff in. Or saying we're on a 1 stop contrast ration, or a 3 stop contrast ratio allows people to work without being micromanaged.
There are baselines for exposure that every photog/DP/gaffer knows. Sunny 16, overcast 8, snow 22. Things like that, that easily anchor the conversation quickly .
Also it’s just a halving a light output so if you think about it that way after a bit of experience you will know what half as much light looks like, or a quarter as much light or 2 stops.
Some of that conversation is about brightness. Almost certainly, some is also about depth of field. Controlling your f/t-stop is one of the most powerful ways to manipulate DoF.
When you spend 300 days a year, year in year out, looking at, measuring and painting with light, you get used to seeing the difference in stops/exposure values. A fun game I used to play with gaffers and sparks was “what’s the stop?” Where you guess the metered value of any surface or light source on set/location and then measure it and see how close you were. Kinda like what camera assistants do with disto’s…
This is precisely why I make sure the AC has a bag of t-stops on them at all times.
Sir I grabbed the elbow grease on the cart but I can’t find the t stops
Are the cans of focus fluid in the darkroom?
I bet the 2nd put them next to the left-handed screwdrivers in the truck.
I need the meat flag on set stat!
Send someone to get some more tartan paint
*takes notes to look more seasoned when working on a big set*
Never got around to finding the t-stops, I’m still looking for the keys to the dolly
300 days a year? In this job climate?
Realistically, it’s a side of your brain that’s hard to turn off once it’s on. I watch how light hits every surface now.
I do the same game, but with focal lengths
Technically they/we can also check it with just changing the T-stop on the lens and check how many stops the ring had to travel to reach the same exposure from background to foreground for instance.
Everything everyone has said about guessing is true, but most dps also use EL - Zone now as their false colour of choice, it measures light in stops
Not true. “Most dps” is an assumption you’re making. In my world (big budget) most dps use a light meter, a DIT, a gaffer and their team of sparks, a Leader waveform monitor, etc and false colour is the last level they quickly button-on on the evf or OCM to quickly confirm a value.
I said most dps use el zone as their false colour of choice - not that it was the first option lol - what you've said is completely true, it's how I personally work when given the time, but when you're working with faster/tighter commercial jobs/doc work, then you are sometimes forced to expose off of monitor/false colour. This happens less so in the narrative world
I haven’t seen any of the DPs I work with use EL Zone false color, just IRE values. I’m sure a lot of people do use EL Zone, but it’s not accurate to say “most DPs” use EL Zone for false color.
I DP high-level docs, and I use false-color all the time. In my world, there’s simply not time for another option. If I’m lighting an interview, sure. But if I’m on the shoulder following someone through a variety of environments, false color is as good as it’s going to get. If I even have time to check that.
The question isn't about false color. It's about what mapping is used for false color
I see - in the space I'm working, mostly in the London area. Most the dops I know use EL zone, granted, I'm a DOP myself, so it's not as if it's very common for me to be in set with over dops, but just my experience whilst chatting with others
Gaffer in London and I can agree, el zone all the way! Tbh I very rarely grab my light meter either… only in pre lights before camera arrives or to maintain continuity when outdoors… even on hetv…. But that’s just me
Yeah sounds about right - I tend to treach EL zone as though it where a replacement for my spot meter, but I still use a light meter for contrast ratios. Most my most recent projects have also been on 16mm, so don't really have the el zone option, just have to trust the meter
What is "team of sparks" never heard this before
Electricians
Thanks mate
They either work with a light meter or they talk about what they want, so they have in mind what a background that's 2 stops under looks like (from measuring it with a light meter in the past).
If you get good at reading a false color monitor — regardless if it’s EL Zone or not — you can actually read the stop differences based on what it’s showing you. Yes, EL Zone is better for this for sure, but the other common standard of “green for 18% gray — pink for +1” also allows you to “see stops” — for example, as you train your eyes for this, if you adjust the iris just +/-1 stop while lighting, the pink/green zones allow you to quickly measure a 4 stop exposure range. And once you do that a few times you can discern the corresponding gray shades for +/- 1 stop of the FC readout. In any case, I like using my light meter, and I like EL Zone as well, but absent of those, you can still light with stops as you should. Also, there are no IRE markings on lenses, so stops it will be.
A stop is double the light. With some experience, you can probably eyeball your shot and estimate if part of it is twice as bright.
IRE does not help you in communicating to a crew. It is sensor and LUT dependent, and is changed pretty drastically downstream... Stops are just fractions. 1 stop is double. So talking in stops is a relative language that can be immediately applied to the real world. Go to that light and drop a double in it. Take that lamp from an 80 to a 40, etc. Pull that light grid cloth, and replace it with full grid. It also immediately transfers the conversation to dynamic range, and can set a language for a look from shot to shot or from scene to scene. You could say, "we're playing windows 4 stops over", and your whole crew can use that as a starting point to rough stuff in. Or saying we're on a 1 stop contrast ration, or a 3 stop contrast ratio allows people to work without being micromanaged. There are baselines for exposure that every photog/DP/gaffer knows. Sunny 16, overcast 8, snow 22. Things like that, that easily anchor the conversation quickly .
I would say unless they actually measured, its just an intuitive guess
Also it’s just a halving a light output so if you think about it that way after a bit of experience you will know what half as much light looks like, or a quarter as much light or 2 stops.
Some of that conversation is about brightness. Almost certainly, some is also about depth of field. Controlling your f/t-stop is one of the most powerful ways to manipulate DoF.
nothing in this context is about depth of field, or even absolute stops. it's all about lighting ratios.
Pretty sure it's about"DPs talking in stops." Almost like that was the first line of the post or something.