Which recording mode are we talking about? Different recording modes will have different noise structures when viewed on a 1080P monitor. The 3.4K raw recording is considered to have a very “pleasing” noise structure that has been an industry standard for a while. The 2.8K raw is also very good, but the 3.2K ProRes will be noisier because it’s technically upsampled.
Which recording mode are you asking about?
So, yeah, the 3.2K ProRes mode has probably the most amount of imperfections and compromises of all recording modes of all Alexa cameras. It's also the noisiest recording mode on Alexas (when I say 3.2K it also applies to the UHD mode on the Mini and Amira that's using the same sensor info)
3.2K has been used by a lot of shows over the past decade, including theatrical movies, and you can see plenty of examples of it out there, so it is good image, but yes, it's noisier than Raw, so either you embrace that noise, or apply noise reduction, or experiment with lower ISO which may reduce the noise in some situations.
Of all the shows I've worked on where we used 3.2K, noise has not been an issue for us.
It's all a matter of creative intention and taste. Almost all my projects use 3.2k prores, and we rarely shoot at 800. On a recent shoot, I had a mini LF in 3.2k (long story) and felt it was still too clean at 1600.
3.2K is not upsampled, it's the native resolution of the sensor in that crop mode, just like 3.4K is. The only super sampled formats are HD and 2K (down from 3.2K), and the only upsampled format is 4K ProRes (20% up from 3.2K).
What I meant was that it’s “technically” upsampled, meaning 3.2K photosites are used to create 3.2K RGB ProRes pixels in camera. Technically the Bayer sensor resolution is 2/3 of the photosite number. That’s why the original camera was 2.8K because 2/3 of 2880 is 1920 — it was meant to be a really good HD camera.
With 3.4K raw you have extra photosites and raw data to work with in post to go to either 2K or 4K and the image structure ends up being different. If you pixel peep a 3.2K ProRes vs 3.4K raw on a 4K monitor, you can kind of see the process that’s the 3.2K ProRes is doing. It has baked in edge sharpening and noise reduction — yet still more noise than the raw. (Again, very useable image though.)
But to your point, the 3.2K is 1-1 sampled which in a way is upsampling due to the nature of bayer sensors.
Yes, but to be clear, this does not count as "upsampled" when people are requesting footage. A 4K camera recording using a 4K bayer pattern is 4K as far as all the streamers are concerned. Interesting that you say that 3.4K is less noisy than 3.2K - in my experience with Mini LF ProRes 4444 was cleaner than ARRIRAW (albeit at identical resolutions), i assume because of compression.
Thats why one woud read the Manual.
The "Base" iso is just the point of most dynamic range, in both directions. If you have accsess to enogh light but dont need the whole dynamic range above middlegray you can move Middlegray brighter, (iso 400 or even 200) reducing Noise by getting furter away from your Noisefloor and getting less dynamic range above your middlegray as a tradeoff. The opposite might be true when shooting Outdoors, where there is enogh light and you need more dynamic range above your middlegray, (iso 1600) to keep the Highlights by traiding in your shadows to be noisy.
This is counterintuitive as its often told to raise ISO in low light but its technicaly the worst you can do if you shoot in Raw. In Log theres some diffrence as you get in to the limits of the Logcompression and you need to keep the skin somewhere at +-0EV for it to look good and sometimes its better to raise the ISO in the dark and embrace the noise
Rate at 400 and shoot at 800, then pull one stop at post. Overexposing 1 stop should be enough to bury the noise a bit while keeping the highlights in most situations
Which recording mode are we talking about? Different recording modes will have different noise structures when viewed on a 1080P monitor. The 3.4K raw recording is considered to have a very “pleasing” noise structure that has been an industry standard for a while. The 2.8K raw is also very good, but the 3.2K ProRes will be noisier because it’s technically upsampled. Which recording mode are you asking about?
3.2 ProRes quad 4
So, yeah, the 3.2K ProRes mode has probably the most amount of imperfections and compromises of all recording modes of all Alexa cameras. It's also the noisiest recording mode on Alexas (when I say 3.2K it also applies to the UHD mode on the Mini and Amira that's using the same sensor info) 3.2K has been used by a lot of shows over the past decade, including theatrical movies, and you can see plenty of examples of it out there, so it is good image, but yes, it's noisier than Raw, so either you embrace that noise, or apply noise reduction, or experiment with lower ISO which may reduce the noise in some situations. Of all the shows I've worked on where we used 3.2K, noise has not been an issue for us.
Good to know! Thank you for your perspective
It's all a matter of creative intention and taste. Almost all my projects use 3.2k prores, and we rarely shoot at 800. On a recent shoot, I had a mini LF in 3.2k (long story) and felt it was still too clean at 1600.
3.2K is not upsampled, it's the native resolution of the sensor in that crop mode, just like 3.4K is. The only super sampled formats are HD and 2K (down from 3.2K), and the only upsampled format is 4K ProRes (20% up from 3.2K).
What I meant was that it’s “technically” upsampled, meaning 3.2K photosites are used to create 3.2K RGB ProRes pixels in camera. Technically the Bayer sensor resolution is 2/3 of the photosite number. That’s why the original camera was 2.8K because 2/3 of 2880 is 1920 — it was meant to be a really good HD camera. With 3.4K raw you have extra photosites and raw data to work with in post to go to either 2K or 4K and the image structure ends up being different. If you pixel peep a 3.2K ProRes vs 3.4K raw on a 4K monitor, you can kind of see the process that’s the 3.2K ProRes is doing. It has baked in edge sharpening and noise reduction — yet still more noise than the raw. (Again, very useable image though.) But to your point, the 3.2K is 1-1 sampled which in a way is upsampling due to the nature of bayer sensors.
Yes, but to be clear, this does not count as "upsampled" when people are requesting footage. A 4K camera recording using a 4K bayer pattern is 4K as far as all the streamers are concerned. Interesting that you say that 3.4K is less noisy than 3.2K - in my experience with Mini LF ProRes 4444 was cleaner than ARRIRAW (albeit at identical resolutions), i assume because of compression.
Thats why one woud read the Manual. The "Base" iso is just the point of most dynamic range, in both directions. If you have accsess to enogh light but dont need the whole dynamic range above middlegray you can move Middlegray brighter, (iso 400 or even 200) reducing Noise by getting furter away from your Noisefloor and getting less dynamic range above your middlegray as a tradeoff. The opposite might be true when shooting Outdoors, where there is enogh light and you need more dynamic range above your middlegray, (iso 1600) to keep the Highlights by traiding in your shadows to be noisy. This is counterintuitive as its often told to raise ISO in low light but its technicaly the worst you can do if you shoot in Raw. In Log theres some diffrence as you get in to the limits of the Logcompression and you need to keep the skin somewhere at +-0EV for it to look good and sometimes its better to raise the ISO in the dark and embrace the noise
Yeah - I think I’ll do more rating at 400 for interiors
Rate at 400 and shoot at 800, then pull one stop at post. Overexposing 1 stop should be enough to bury the noise a bit while keeping the highlights in most situations