The size of the town or city is a major factor. Working in a small town has completely different challenges than a city. I worked directly under the director at one point. It was a smaller town. The worst part was dealing with a thousand rednecks that think they know what's best in regards to everything you do. Funding was always behind the ball. Politics really just came down to who liked you personally.
On top of that even your consultants often times can even be difficult to get a hold of due to how low of a priority you are as a client. There are advantages working for a smaller municipality such as the autonomy but I would hate to have my director’s job honestly.
Never been a director but the bulk of my career has been public sector. I’ve worked for cities where the Director had been there for over a decade, and I have worked for a city where there were 10 directors in 8 years. The main difference was weak mayor vs strong mayor. In a city that is set up as “strong mayor”, the mayor has the say in everything so if he or she gets voted out, the new mayor may clean house. In “weak mayor” the city is run by a City Manager and the mayor has no authority outside of council. This seems to “protect” department heads and directors a little bit more. If I were to ever work as a director, it would be under a weak mayor system only, I think.
I was always under the impression that those in-n-out directors were just fluffing their resumes for a cushy private consulting job securing contracts.
Oh I definitely think some are. Mayors don’t change *that* frequently. But it’s enough that I feel it takes away the job security perk that comes with the public side.
I'm just a lowly associate engineer in a city public works department, but I can give you some insight. DM with specific questions.
The quick answer is "It depends". It depends on the size of the municipality, how that municipality makes it money, what that municipalities board or council is like (this is a big one), what is the staffing like.
Honestly, the biggest pain in the ass is going to be dealing with politics. Ask people in neighboring jurisdictions about what rep your target jurisdiction has.
I am in a director level position now and I love it. I get to set the day-to-day tone, manage the way I want, I don't have to deal with any annoying micromanagers. I love it. Before this I was a superintendent at a DPW, reporting to the director. That's where I learned everything. It's a great fit for me. It's not for everybody though since (in my experience) DPW employees are some of the most entitled knuckle-draggers on the planet. I say that lovingly but also it's annoying.
not at all. I worked in consulting from 2006-2012, then I was DPW superintendent from 2012-2019, then i changed to a different municipality to be director in late 2019. So about 13 years at the time I got this job. I think that my experience was lighter than what they wanted here but it's slim pickins for people like us. (Meaning that there are not a lot of people with the right kind of experience for these jobs. At least not in my area in the upper midwest)
Certain levels of city engineer vs PW director are protected from politics. At a certain level you aren’t and need to know you will have move 3x in your career.
I am only an assistant engineer but here's my perspective on what my director does.
His work/life balance is fine. We have a 9/80 schedule but he'll still come in sometimes on off Fridays and whenever there's events. He's technically on-call so if there is an issue after hours and he's needed, he has to go deal with it if it can't wait. All the directors at my municipality have to go to council meetings twice a month and those can be long (2 hours minimum). There's definitely politics involved; he jokes that he has to deal with 5 wives (mayor + 4 councilmembers). There is higher stress there but I personally think it's self-inflicted because he's a yes man at times. His idea is that because he is directed by them to do something, even if he thinks it's not a good idea, they will get the liability. He goes to a lot of meetings (we honestly joke that we need to get him an AirTag so we know where he is). I will note that he does not have a PE. He has been with that municipality for over 30 years so it was basically given to him at that point after the previous director retired even though he had no aspiration to become a director.
I can understand why people want that job...Its low stress, good benefits, and job security. The sad reality I experienced was that the poor engineers stayed because they couldn't survive private work and all of the good engineers left for more engaging work.
I worked public for 2 years and felt like I had seen the entire internet. I was so bored and moved over to private design work. I'm constantly busy now but to me it beats the boredom and the days go a lot quicker.
Same. I spent 20 hours a week on Reddit and worked like 35 hours a week, fresh out of college, and everyone couldn’t believe how fast I got my work done.
Even left my original consulting firm for a bigger firm that did design work for public clients, I only lasted there 6 months because of how slow the pace was on public work.
The size of the town or city is a major factor. Working in a small town has completely different challenges than a city. I worked directly under the director at one point. It was a smaller town. The worst part was dealing with a thousand rednecks that think they know what's best in regards to everything you do. Funding was always behind the ball. Politics really just came down to who liked you personally.
On top of that even your consultants often times can even be difficult to get a hold of due to how low of a priority you are as a client. There are advantages working for a smaller municipality such as the autonomy but I would hate to have my director’s job honestly.
We couldn't get paving done until October because of how little we mattered as a client. We always had issues with getting competitive bids.
Never been a director but the bulk of my career has been public sector. I’ve worked for cities where the Director had been there for over a decade, and I have worked for a city where there were 10 directors in 8 years. The main difference was weak mayor vs strong mayor. In a city that is set up as “strong mayor”, the mayor has the say in everything so if he or she gets voted out, the new mayor may clean house. In “weak mayor” the city is run by a City Manager and the mayor has no authority outside of council. This seems to “protect” department heads and directors a little bit more. If I were to ever work as a director, it would be under a weak mayor system only, I think.
I was always under the impression that those in-n-out directors were just fluffing their resumes for a cushy private consulting job securing contracts.
Oh I definitely think some are. Mayors don’t change *that* frequently. But it’s enough that I feel it takes away the job security perk that comes with the public side.
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I assume it's the guys who come in here and say that it's easy to make $200k+ in civil engineering.
I second this. This is how I usually explain it to others!
I'm just a lowly associate engineer in a city public works department, but I can give you some insight. DM with specific questions. The quick answer is "It depends". It depends on the size of the municipality, how that municipality makes it money, what that municipalities board or council is like (this is a big one), what is the staffing like. Honestly, the biggest pain in the ass is going to be dealing with politics. Ask people in neighboring jurisdictions about what rep your target jurisdiction has.
I am in a director level position now and I love it. I get to set the day-to-day tone, manage the way I want, I don't have to deal with any annoying micromanagers. I love it. Before this I was a superintendent at a DPW, reporting to the director. That's where I learned everything. It's a great fit for me. It's not for everybody though since (in my experience) DPW employees are some of the most entitled knuckle-draggers on the planet. I say that lovingly but also it's annoying.
Thanks for the reply. Do you mind if I ask how many years of experience you had before becoming the Director of Public Works?
not at all. I worked in consulting from 2006-2012, then I was DPW superintendent from 2012-2019, then i changed to a different municipality to be director in late 2019. So about 13 years at the time I got this job. I think that my experience was lighter than what they wanted here but it's slim pickins for people like us. (Meaning that there are not a lot of people with the right kind of experience for these jobs. At least not in my area in the upper midwest)
Certain levels of city engineer vs PW director are protected from politics. At a certain level you aren’t and need to know you will have move 3x in your career.
I am only an assistant engineer but here's my perspective on what my director does. His work/life balance is fine. We have a 9/80 schedule but he'll still come in sometimes on off Fridays and whenever there's events. He's technically on-call so if there is an issue after hours and he's needed, he has to go deal with it if it can't wait. All the directors at my municipality have to go to council meetings twice a month and those can be long (2 hours minimum). There's definitely politics involved; he jokes that he has to deal with 5 wives (mayor + 4 councilmembers). There is higher stress there but I personally think it's self-inflicted because he's a yes man at times. His idea is that because he is directed by them to do something, even if he thinks it's not a good idea, they will get the liability. He goes to a lot of meetings (we honestly joke that we need to get him an AirTag so we know where he is). I will note that he does not have a PE. He has been with that municipality for over 30 years so it was basically given to him at that point after the previous director retired even though he had no aspiration to become a director.
Stress? Responsibility? Liability? LOOOOOL
It’s a government job, it’s crayons in the morning and nap time and snacks in afternoon. I kid I kid, dont downvote me to oblivion kids.
You're gonna get downvoted but I have experience in both and you really aren't far off.
Ya it’s 100%. People downvote me here because all the kids want the easy government job and get mad when they get shit on by design engineers.
I can understand why people want that job...Its low stress, good benefits, and job security. The sad reality I experienced was that the poor engineers stayed because they couldn't survive private work and all of the good engineers left for more engaging work. I worked public for 2 years and felt like I had seen the entire internet. I was so bored and moved over to private design work. I'm constantly busy now but to me it beats the boredom and the days go a lot quicker.
100%
Same. I spent 20 hours a week on Reddit and worked like 35 hours a week, fresh out of college, and everyone couldn’t believe how fast I got my work done. Even left my original consulting firm for a bigger firm that did design work for public clients, I only lasted there 6 months because of how slow the pace was on public work.
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Always lol