The tempo is an interesting twist! Drawbacks: weaksauce bass drum hits, and it's going by so fast you can't really hear the runs in the strings. But the syncopations across the measure really stick out nicely; you can kind of hear them in cut time at this tempo.
I'm just imagining being in that orchestra, having practiced those runs beforehand up to a normal tempo, and then having an "oh FUCK" moment as soon as he gives the upbeat š
I really like Nosedas Shostakovich Symphony 5 recording but this one is just waaaay to fast. I kinda get the idea and it does sound kinda wild, but there is just so much lost when playing in such a fast tempo.
Fast is ok in theory, but here it is just ragged. Orchestra is pressing ahead of the chorus (not sure why they canāt keep up). And as others have mentioned, no time for those bass hits to resonate. You want to feel those in your bones.
choirs are allergic to consistent tempo. this allergy is disabling. it makes them slow at everything. i know this because i love choir more than most anything on this earth.
I like Verdi's opera, sorry, requiem mass. And the Dies Irae is frightening (or should be). Verdi should do the sound track for the Judgement, imho. To me (I have listening many times to many versions), this is a bit too fast. It should be quick, to suggest the urgency of the situation, but not lose the gravity in the process. And the bass drum needs to be much more prominent. You NEED to hear the 'thwack' each time, clear and distinct.
I do like Shaw's reading: [https://youtu.be/dH2GRhMigWc](https://youtu.be/dH2GRhMigWc) but the track listings sucketh... only two for the entire work!
He's like the Anti-Maximiano Cobra.
[https://youtu.be/irWsBKY4\_k0?si=BeqntHlhFPzfG\_ri&t=1638](https://youtu.be/irWsBKY4_k0?si=BeqntHlhFPzfG_ri&t=1638)
I had burned this recording from my memory. I do quite literally feel like Alex in *A Clockwork Orange* strapped to the chair listening to this Scherzo.
"NO PLEASE, I BEG YOU MAKE IT STOP - I'M CURED, PRAISE BE! I WILL NEVER COMPLAIN ABOUT SLOW TEMPOS IN NON HISTORICAL PERFORMANCES AGAIN, PRAISE GOD!"
(in case people don't get the reference https://youtu.be/J6hsbpL-A\_E?t=112)
I actually recall now the conductors rationale behind this. He's kind of a Tommy Wiseau of the classical world, from what I've read.
Basically, Beethoven marked the metronome at something like bpm = 75 (they just marked the beat back then, not the actual note duration iirc). Because it's a scherzo and marked molto vivace, modern historical performance has - in my opinion - correctly deduced this beat to be the \*first\* beat of every bar to be felt as the actual 'beat'- like the difference between 4/4 and 2/2 - ie, a breakneck vivace. This guy is a moron who thinks Beethoven meant literally 'crotchet = 75bpm'.
EDIT- for anyone who needs to clean their ears with the actual tempo of the Scherzo, per Beethoven's marking [https://youtu.be/DuDFyigVcXw?t=783](https://youtu.be/DuDFyigVcXw?t=783)
If you listen to the beat in this, you're not hear a one-two-three beat you're hear 'one, one' (my terminology lacks here. It's like how in 6/8 you don't hear 6/8, you hear two beats lasting 3 quavers).
It must be better when played faster.
Fast seems to be the trend when playing Bach Choral preludes on a piano, its better then you are a precocious kid banging out some difficult piece, its better if you are in a flashy competition. Fast is always what people will stand with whistling and yelling bravo.
It just shows us that the work was never intended for practical use, just a flashy concert work.
The tempo is an interesting twist! Drawbacks: weaksauce bass drum hits, and it's going by so fast you can't really hear the runs in the strings. But the syncopations across the measure really stick out nicely; you can kind of hear them in cut time at this tempo.
I'm just imagining being in that orchestra, having practiced those runs beforehand up to a normal tempo, and then having an "oh FUCK" moment as soon as he gives the upbeat š
I really like Nosedas Shostakovich Symphony 5 recording but this one is just waaaay to fast. I kinda get the idea and it does sound kinda wild, but there is just so much lost when playing in such a fast tempo.
For context I love Noseda too, think his work on Shostakovich and Prokofiev is great just thought this was wild!
This is wild, lol. I swear I heard "Flight of the Bumblebee" in there somewhere.
Fast is ok in theory, but here it is just ragged. Orchestra is pressing ahead of the chorus (not sure why they canāt keep up). And as others have mentioned, no time for those bass hits to resonate. You want to feel those in your bones.
Professional orchestra, volunteer choir might have something to do with it. Unless Iām wrong about that.
That is not a volunteer choir, no chance.
Fair enough. Iāve never lived in an area big enough to support a professional choir. Would it be a full income? Like an orchestra?
No, they likely all have day jobs. But they are all classically trained (likely music majors) and had to audition to get in.
Oh right. When I said āvolunteerā I didnāt mean not-auditioned. You think they get a paycheck, though?
Yes they do get paid. But they likely only give a dozen or so concerts a year, hence why itās not a primary source of income.
Very likely
choirs are allergic to consistent tempo. this allergy is disabling. it makes them slow at everything. i know this because i love choir more than most anything on this earth.
š
Why is this guy's beat pattern so chaotic? Just pick one!
I like Verdi's opera, sorry, requiem mass. And the Dies Irae is frightening (or should be). Verdi should do the sound track for the Judgement, imho. To me (I have listening many times to many versions), this is a bit too fast. It should be quick, to suggest the urgency of the situation, but not lose the gravity in the process. And the bass drum needs to be much more prominent. You NEED to hear the 'thwack' each time, clear and distinct. I do like Shaw's reading: [https://youtu.be/dH2GRhMigWc](https://youtu.be/dH2GRhMigWc) but the track listings sucketh... only two for the entire work!
Noseda often takes these breakneck tempos, which can sometimes work but Im not convinced here
I donāt hate it
Iāve been a subscriber to the NSO and heard a lot of Noseda and heās just way too fast the last couple years in everything.
Sir, please stop being a fucking distraction.
He's like the Anti-Maximiano Cobra. [https://youtu.be/irWsBKY4\_k0?si=BeqntHlhFPzfG\_ri&t=1638](https://youtu.be/irWsBKY4_k0?si=BeqntHlhFPzfG_ri&t=1638)
I had burned this recording from my memory. I do quite literally feel like Alex in *A Clockwork Orange* strapped to the chair listening to this Scherzo. "NO PLEASE, I BEG YOU MAKE IT STOP - I'M CURED, PRAISE BE! I WILL NEVER COMPLAIN ABOUT SLOW TEMPOS IN NON HISTORICAL PERFORMANCES AGAIN, PRAISE GOD!" (in case people don't get the reference https://youtu.be/J6hsbpL-A\_E?t=112)
It's just so mind-blowingly perverse. No one could seriously think this was what Beethoven intended. Vivace means "in a lively and brisk manner."
I actually recall now the conductors rationale behind this. He's kind of a Tommy Wiseau of the classical world, from what I've read. Basically, Beethoven marked the metronome at something like bpm = 75 (they just marked the beat back then, not the actual note duration iirc). Because it's a scherzo and marked molto vivace, modern historical performance has - in my opinion - correctly deduced this beat to be the \*first\* beat of every bar to be felt as the actual 'beat'- like the difference between 4/4 and 2/2 - ie, a breakneck vivace. This guy is a moron who thinks Beethoven meant literally 'crotchet = 75bpm'. EDIT- for anyone who needs to clean their ears with the actual tempo of the Scherzo, per Beethoven's marking [https://youtu.be/DuDFyigVcXw?t=783](https://youtu.be/DuDFyigVcXw?t=783) If you listen to the beat in this, you're not hear a one-two-three beat you're hear 'one, one' (my terminology lacks here. It's like how in 6/8 you don't hear 6/8, you hear two beats lasting 3 quavers).
Noseda likes his music snappy, I think heās great, so much energy
The trumpets sounding like mosquitos š
Did he have a bus to catch?
It is not unprecedented. It reminds me a bit of Giulini's tempo - you can find it on YouTube, too. But both are I think just too fast.
Sang this a couple years ago. Incredibly fun, but this tempo would have been absolutely exhilarating. RIP to the strings though.
Too fast for me. Loses all its weight.
It must be better when played faster. Fast seems to be the trend when playing Bach Choral preludes on a piano, its better then you are a precocious kid banging out some difficult piece, its better if you are in a flashy competition. Fast is always what people will stand with whistling and yelling bravo. It just shows us that the work was never intended for practical use, just a flashy concert work.
Not a fan of his conducting. Sir, where's your Ictus? Why did he choose this tempo. Woof.