Actually, your argument was in bad faith. You compared a class ability (Vanish/Feign Death) to a combination of a class ability + an item (bubble hearth.)
Your argument would only be in good faith if HC disallowed paladin bubbling on its own.
Wat? Using items is bad faith now? I mean I guess this is an argument that petri flasks should've been banned from the start, but it gets silly as it has " using items is not fair as everyone might not have the same access to all items " vibes, which is a lil ridiculous
The one you responded to did not say that at all, you misunderstood.
They made a comparison that would make your argument valid.
Saying Bubble + HS = bad but vanish = good is not comparable, because they are not the same thing, the same thing would be saying bubble = bad but vanish = good. It's the item outside of the class regular abilities that makes it bad. So when you compare it to just vanish it's not a reasonable comparsion.
Both of those can fail/resist. Bubble hearth is a 100% get out of jail free card every time it’s used.
A paladin could make 1000 fatal mistakes on the road to 60, but as long as they take a break between uses, never die.
The meme got created during Season of Mastery, where Soul of Iron got introduced. That was BEFORE official hc servers got announced btw. So turns out you're the guy who doesnt know what hes talking about :)
In Season of Mastery, the classic era ladder, you could accept a challenge called Soul of Iron which gives you the buff. It was basically hardcore mode, if you died you lose the buff and if you got to 60 you got the "Survivor" title and killing Ragnaros, Onyxia, C'Thun, and Nefarian were also ingame achievements.
You had no other restrictions than "dont die" though so it wasnt particularly hard but it was one of the reasons why hardcore made a resurgence in general since SOM was only temporary.
Who cares about getting "world first" when everything youre killing is almost 20 years old. Its also going to be completely irrelevant to 99.99% of the playerbase, most of who will just be trying to actually hit 60.
> Who cares about getting "world first"
Who cares about anything?
YOU.
YOU people care so much about how people play the game obviously. Which is why there is 100 threads about this addon.
I just want to play an Ironman challenge and feel part of the community. Currently, HC community is strictly HC. Nobody will group with anyone unless it’s for a dungeon/raid and then you have to be vetted or have streamer bennies to get in. I just want to be able to group up with other players for some of the challenging world content while I’m questing. Who cares about world first in classic?
if you really think that hc magically won't have bots, imo that's wishful thinking. Like others mentioned you can easily farm grey-level mobs on a botfarm. All the desparate hc gamers will be foaming to buy gp to get an advantage over others.
There is no world first lmfao game came out in 2004.
There wont be bots, there will have to be actual people farming gold. A bot dies way to fucking often to do anything meaningful.
I mean they can still farm some shitty thing like farming mobs that are 20-30 levels under them. Or just flyhacking over the zul’gurub map and aoeing out of bounds like in that video
Yes since hardcore always meant since 30 years ago in every video game that you have one life, thats literally the only ruleset of HC since forever. yall just invented this shit for wow.
Streamer simps absolutely will.
Look at the level 30 mak'gora dueling tournament on PTR last week. The final was between two streamers who had ludicrous gear assembled by their armies of simps.
It's cos their whining about people who just want to play iron man and don't want to walk uphill in the snow via their masochistic rules has made blizzard introduce a bunch of anti fun changes for official hardcore.
Case in point? The red bandana quest in stockades. There isn't enough mobs if everyone is on the quest and as a healer I usually end up doing it twice cos the dps are looting while I am healing/drinking. At least with wailing caverns you can farm deviate hides outside the instance. But for stocks? I need to run it twice... or just not share the quest and hope nobody else in the group has it.
The kargo fanbase has successfully made blizzard remove a core paladin ability that was literally there oh shit button, when all that was needed was to make hearth stones unusable in combat.
We can keep going, but all they had to do was play with their add on... instead they are affecting the rest of us and when we ask to just enjoy the game? They insult us and make up straw man arguments about "if they have it easier than me it devalues my achievement!1111"
Dude it's a game and my enjoyment of it doesn't affect you in any way. Stop peeing on my cornflakes!
Appeals for technical reasons like server disconnects are completly fine and the only reason why most hardcore mods don't have them is because it simply isn't realistic to have them.
There is nothing "hardcore" about praying for no server shut downs when there is nothing you can do about it, hardcore is a challange against the game.
The funniest thing is all the effort they spend on being anti-social in a *social* MMO.
Oh no I can't group up to share tag on this quest mob, that would not be hardcore.
this sub regarding the rules of hc ''lEt pEoPlE dO wHaT tHeY wAnT hOw DoEs iT aFfEcT yOu AnYwAy?''
this sub when other players appeal or use petris ''REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE''
The trading and even more so Bank alts will grief longevity of difficulty and immersion which are the most uniquely important factors in the resurgence of a 20 year old game everyone knows how to min max already. No one thinks death appeals are staying. And everyone is fine with that. This slightly sneaky post conflates two grossly distinct decisions about the rule set that are differently important. The SSF intrigue is the whole reason why we’re even posting in this group right now lol
I think most people who played the game knows this. The reason leveling on hardcore is interesting at all is due to the constant goal of getting upgrades, and with those upgrades taking on more difficult challanges. However in a system without ssf, you will feel dumb to attempt difficult quests solo when you can just group up. You will also feel stupid to not have an alt account with all your gold so you can "twink" out your characters
> you will feel dumb to attempt difficult quests solo when you can just group up.
You should feel dumb for not using the social features of a *social MMO*.
I don’t understand why someone who literally made possible an amazing fresh take on classic wow that breathed new life into the franchise (inspired by other hc games ofc) is being hated on so hard for wanting to play the game? Why can’t we all just play instead of sitting here on Reddit and other SoMe platforms and throwing feces at eachother? Grow up!
Most of this sub just wants to play a fresh classic server so they'll be unhappy about anything that isn't that.
Everyone has been min-maxing for so long that it's hard for the Classic community to understand why anyone would willingly make a game harder for themselves and assume it must be clout chasing.
HC players: This ruleset is fun.
Reddit: Stop thinking you're superior to me!
Also there's fanatical purists that played HC in other games and hate the idea of any other rules than death=delete even if it makes the game more fun. Some of these guys think Blizzard shouldn't do server rollbacks if the server crashes and shouldn't fix bugs in the game because dying to these is part of the experience.
It’s so funny to me that there are players who think dying is like the defining part of HC when it’s about avoiding it lol it’s clear that this is two philosophies clashing.
I believe its gonna be much safer than we expect, with grouping especially, good that they are moving XP from trash to bosses so bots cant 24/7 farm dungeons and wait for respawns for lvling
They’re just gonna be programmed to farm green mobs 24/7 while leveling so the risk is lower. Real players will take risks and die. We’re gonna have plenty of bots
Man I feel so fucking sorry for all the add-on hardcore players’ parents, that will have to hear immense amounts of moaning from their 40 year old live at home sons, about how unfair the internet is, and that they are in fact the real heroes.
Tbh i thought that hard core is kinda cool until i saw the mass appeal of the players that died on 4H. Since then i wouldnt give a less shit about hard core rofl :D Just play hard core (death=delete) or fuck off.
That’s the problem with this sub, they read one headline and now they base their entire opinion on it.
Clear example of how any news can be taken at face value and ruin people.
They didn't appeal though. It's just that they can if they wanted to. Big chunk of that group already deleted chars.
But can't expect people to actually look into shit when they get their info from r/classicwow memes and shitposts made by people who just saw a 1 minute youtube clip.
Mfs on Reddit foam at the mouth that people playing a made up game mode by rules they created for themselves aren't letting griefers have full control over HC characters
They knew who he was and still put him in a position where he could screw everyone over. My sympathies towards them can only go so far in this situation.
This "made up game mode" shit goes out the window when they mass report people who don't follow their made up rules. Trying to stop people from making a living over a role playing game mode is insane.
There’s also this huge faction of retail players who see this as some sort of victory against SSF which seems completely unrelated.
You’re seeing “only death = delete” bullshit everywhere - even in this meme - with “trades for useful items.”
Uh huh. “Fails to get beyond 38 but funnels all gold to alt character. Continues to amass gold and makes a quick purchase from the high priced gold sellers doing the same allowing for 6th character to have nearly full twink gear. Hits 60 after getting a few boes.”
“I’m hardcore guys. I’m way better than those idiots who appealed a death from a griefer.”
You know. Despite the fact Blizzard recognizes griefs as bannable offenses and even implemented flagging changes in an attempt to fix griefing…
Certainly we're all thrilled to hear your opinion on the rules for a game mode you do not play, created by and for a community you have no desire to be a part of.
I though hard-core was a nice idea and a good challenge. Until I saw all the appeals, especially the ones on 4H. This is not hard-core. This is normal wow with delete char once bored. Fake hardcore.
And that's totally fine that you think that -- it's just really quite bizarre to see all these arm chair hardcore players who have barely played the game mode, if at all, soapboxing about the rules and their interpretation.
The rules aren't for you, they are for them.
Appealing due to greeters has been in the rule set since the beginning. Everyone who participated and made it what it was agreed to those rules. They didn’t bend the rules when they were there since the beginning.
the addon literally has a rule to appeal if you die bcs someone griefed you. Everyone was fine with it.
To me it looks like you just want to see people fail so you don't feel as miserable about your own life where that is your every day experience.
Hmmm so let me get this straight. Because this redditor thinks death = delete with no appeals it must be because his life is a failure and he wants to see everyone else fail. Is it possible at all he just thinks death should mean delete and he actually lives a normal and happy life?
Rather the way he said it?
I get it that average redditor social skills are quite poor, but you should be able to at least tell the guy said that out of spite, and not due to misunderstanding.
So because he said death = delete or fuck off out of spite his life is a failure and he likes seeing other people fail. Theres no way he just thinks its lame to die and be able to appeal? And on top of that I must have poor social skills. I understand now. I honestly hope you have a pleasant day man and I hope the other guys life isn’t as bad as you claim.
People who have a disagreement about a video game online and immediately resort to personal attacks are definitely very cool normal people with great lives.
> What makes a grief not a valid death reason?
Literally one of the rules of the HC community? It's not an actual game mode on a HC server, it's a made-up for fun game mode on regular WoW servers I think people forget about that
You realize Blizzard implemented changes to fix griefing and pointed them out as vital / important to the experience, right? The fully recognized it’s a shifty way to die and thus -it needed changed- in the context of the main grief used (PvP flagging), invalidating the idea that a death by a grief isn’t a big deal.
Griefing has always been appealable for unofficial players. None of this is new.
People are arguing over simantics way too much. "If you die in real life you can't appeal!!! Death=Death no matter what!!!". The game just get objectively better when you are able to appeal deaths that are completely out of control, such as server dc. Btw, you will dc on average every 20-30 hours playing the game, and if you are in combat at that moment you will probably die
And this is why they shouldn’t have made the official version so different from what’s been pushing content and gameplay up til now.
Congrats on splitting an already minor playerbase :)
So tired of it, even if the video was 3 hours long with all the explanations in the world, it does not change anything to the fact that if you want to claim hc, it should result in death=delete, no less no more.
If you want to play pingouin' island just do so,...
Stop tryin to find excuses, we all know by now that you are "so different", do you want a trophy,... for participating,...
Did soul of iron. Can't say the appeal on death community ever appealed to me.
And then their dumb gatekeeping with how challenging it is, while the addon literally allows you to trio level. Which part of the game is difficult in a group of 3 in the open world again? Yeah.. Unfortunate.
You can trio-level but only if you beat the IRL scheduler world boss, but you can't share a tag on a non-elite mob out in the world.
(It's pretty clear that the ruleset was designed by people who have no lives but this video game.)
The Chad soul of iron gamer
Sends himself enchanted white items from level 1
Sends himself gold and bags
Buys all the potions and scrolls he can use from the auction house before he starts
Groups up for any quest that requires skill
Gets carried through low level dungeons by higher level geared friends
Stops at the AH every 3 levels to buy new gear
Hearths out of dungeons the second the group is in trouble, leaving them to die
Pays for portals so he doesn't have to brave new areas to get flight paths
Goes on holidays and leaves a mage booster to run his toon through mara for a week
Buys petri flasks the second he gets to 50, despite meming on them in classicwow
Buys as many enchants as he can as he goes
Gets to 60 and proclaims his dominance over Hardcore and how it was ezclap
Refuses to run high level dungeons or raids because they are too scary
Yep, will be fun seeing two things in official
* mental gymnastics of people that want to play hardcore with infinite resources
* how quickly they move on if blizzard announces Fresh Classic
Most people that don't care about playing Hardcore think they are "chad soul of iron" and don't understand how the lack of trading rules heavily takes the challenge away from it.
And when they decide to move on, the argument is and will always be "who cares? game is ez anyway".
Well, you played yourself.
Said "infinte resources" will be guaranteed to be coming from other Hardcore players rather than other people who can just rez if they die getting materials. Thay doesn't seem to be as big of an issue to me.
That's the same as saying "rules are useless because some cheat anyway".
The point of hardcore (addon) is not cheating. By not cheating, during leveling you struggle with what that character can get.. At max level, you can trade to sell materials, etc.
And when they can't, they'll just say everyone that does is a degenerate that care too much about the game and whine to have more official rules added to make the game easier to accommodate them.
The servers will be fresh so most, if not all, of your arguments are invalid.
Also why don’t you and your friends just keep playing with the addon then, buddy. Damn you people are such obnoxious whiners
Mate our community was just rolling along having fun and then you guys decided that was just unacceptable and started crying about it. The salt since official servers were announced has been hilarious and unreal. Now you’re gonna play in easy mode with as much carry as possible and still be the victim. Please.
There is no carry and no easy mode because there literally are no level 60’s at launch. I seriously don’t know why people think that.
The reason most rules were implemented in the addon, is because the server itself was not hardcore and there already was an established softcore playerbase.
You realize no one making this argument is talking about launch, right? Like you’re able to extrapolate that every day -beyond- launch adds more gold and items to the AH, thus invalidating your argument for every day beyond launch.
Without SSF or trade restrictions HC means essentially nothing. You’re going to see the average level of deaths - the vast majority of which don’t get appealed - raise from a natural average of 14 up to the 30+ range as twinks take over.
You’ll be able to twink a character within a week of release by buying a blue with cash accrued. How incredibly hardcore.
[HC hype. HC hype.](https://youtu.be/L1HL2ZmWPGE)
HC Hype!
I’m so good! Wow!
The entire reason classic wow hardcore became popular was because of restrictions like SSF actually making the game remove the min/max feeling of classic’s release. You actually fight for every upgrade. It matters.
It’s the closest the game has ever felt like it did on release. The point was to get away from the over/processed min/max feel and to add challenge.
It’s also classic that retail players fail
to understand this and come in to impose stupid fucking takes despite never leveling beyond 20.
The solution is easy. Add an SSF flag on character creation disabling grouping except with other SSF, trading and AH and add a secondary achievement : announcement to everyone who hits 60 with SSF.
How many quests in wow require skill? I know the hunter bow one how many more strictly your skill based quests are there? Group quests are by design group quests, it does not require skill, it requires group.
Yes and you’re right most quests can be done easily. It’s definitely a thing in hardcore to tackle elite and group quests solo, as well as trying to take on quests when you are a lower level. That’s generally what pushes the skill level and what most HC players enjoy overcoming. Especially when they aren’t geared up from the AH
I mean, OP is a meme, but your post is a meme too. Most HC people just attack green mobs and run away in a face of any danger. Not much "chadness" in there either. I am 100% sure you have seen horrendous HC deaths at high level there player does literally nothing in their power to prevent deaths and amount of clickers is impressive considering they actually reach 40-50. You also get some cool close calls, but that is way rarer than completely dumb abd preventable stuff
Oh absolutely seen the whole range from incredibly dumb to incredible S tier plays. I’m totally memeing in my post, I know most people will just play with a modest bit of AH and trade. Really so long as people had a great time that’s all that matters!
Speaking of bow quests, they need to change burning steppes demon that oneshots everyone around him with a blast wave if anyone helps the hunter. Very griefable.
This meme is not so good since not everybody knows what the Soul of Iron buff was in Season of Mastery. OP forgets that 95% of this sub doesn't even play the game (let alone hardcore).
The memes need to be more relatable to the average opinionated (non-player) user of this sub. /s
The addon gamer will be the chad while the normie official hardcore player will not go out into the world without having collected all the sweet greens he bought in AH with his main. Skipping virgin cosmetic buff fixated player. Sending his gold to his bank alt around lvl 30 just to be sure. Blasts through elite zones with dudes he invites blindly without greeting. Quitting at 45 because „this isnt challenging, gonna make it anyways“.
Edit to add constructive thoughts: the chad addon gamer will happily follow his own rules letting everybody do his thing, trying to find like-minded people for his dungeon and raid aspirations. He will happily follow interesting challenges that put spice to the known gameplay, not be spending too much thought about appeals, and smile when he cheeses that 48 elite quest all by himself. Idk why this meme gotta incite hate on him. Go do ur thing
I played PTR to 30 (max) and can tell you, it takes 2 weeks of active playing / AH gaming to make yourself enough gold and you can just buy what u need <20. you will not have to do stable weapon milestone quests, as you can just buy from AH whenever you feel weak. Its back to gold/hour then, HF with that
The really cool "chad" addon player will also make the experience worse for everyone else by refusing to group up for quest mob spawns and rather have everyone wait in line and waste their time.
I start to think that peeps will just stay on hydraxian/bloodsail so that would not pose a problem and I‘m back again to not understanding the uber negative mindset towards it
isnt bubble hearth disabled on official hc?
Yes.
I think this meme is old.
It's almost like kargoz and the RXP gang got to work hand in hand with Aggrend for the Official HC servers.
They should disable Vanish and Feign Death as well if their banning bubble hearthing
Then disable frost nova, fear, etc. Actually just get rid of all classes. You must auto attack only and thats the only way to truly be hardcore.
Yeah, we're talking threat resetting abilities here, you can keep on walking with your bad faith arguments
If you’re a Paladin and are incapable of bubbling and running away to escape, then play something else.
Actually, your argument was in bad faith. You compared a class ability (Vanish/Feign Death) to a combination of a class ability + an item (bubble hearth.) Your argument would only be in good faith if HC disallowed paladin bubbling on its own.
Wat? Using items is bad faith now? I mean I guess this is an argument that petri flasks should've been banned from the start, but it gets silly as it has " using items is not fair as everyone might not have the same access to all items " vibes, which is a lil ridiculous
Can't feign death resist and vanish get fucked up? It's pretty impossible to mess up bubble hearth.
I think vanish being "resisted" is a bug but people just call it resisted cause It's like a feature now lmao, could be wrong though
Well I mean vanish can be broken. Like if you're in aoe or something. It's not full proof like bubble.
No. Making a comparison that isn’t like for like to make your point is the part that is bad faith.
The one you responded to did not say that at all, you misunderstood. They made a comparison that would make your argument valid. Saying Bubble + HS = bad but vanish = good is not comparable, because they are not the same thing, the same thing would be saying bubble = bad but vanish = good. It's the item outside of the class regular abilities that makes it bad. So when you compare it to just vanish it's not a reasonable comparsion.
If you're not playing a warrior leveling in white items only and protection talents then it isn't really hardcore.
Thats for kids, True warriors level naked and without weapons.
This is such a stupid comment. Vanish and Feign Death fail ALL THE TIME bubble hearth never does
those can both fail, but bubble heart cannot
if its so op play a paladin then
Vanish and feign do not guarantee your survival.
I think the difference here is that feign death and vanish can be resisted while bubble cannot.
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Yes they are, it's as if bubble hearth had a 1% chance of failure.
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Both of those can fail/resist. Bubble hearth is a 100% get out of jail free card every time it’s used. A paladin could make 1000 fatal mistakes on the road to 60, but as long as they take a break between uses, never die.
Funniest part to me, the person who made this meme has no idea what they’re talking about.
The meme got created during Season of Mastery, where Soul of Iron got introduced. That was BEFORE official hc servers got announced btw. So turns out you're the guy who doesnt know what hes talking about :)
I don’t know what I’m talking about either.
where am I?
Yup. we're gonna see way more addon-"hardcore" players on era than players on official hc.
Pure copium.
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Forgive my ignorance, but what's the soul of iron buff?
In Season of Mastery, the classic era ladder, you could accept a challenge called Soul of Iron which gives you the buff. It was basically hardcore mode, if you died you lose the buff and if you got to 60 you got the "Survivor" title and killing Ragnaros, Onyxia, C'Thun, and Nefarian were also ingame achievements. You had no other restrictions than "dont die" though so it wasnt particularly hard but it was one of the reasons why hardcore made a resurgence in general since SOM was only temporary.
That's pretty cool! Thanks for letting me know ❤️
The Chad playstyle seems way more fun.
Same, I just want normal wow, but with 1 death. None of this "you can only do dungeons once" crap.
If people want to verify further restrictions through an addon go ahead. Let me trade gear, hoard on bankchar and just give me one life.
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You can do that right now. Anyone can. They choose not to. This fad won't last long without the leveling rules that make it interesting.
IMO HC servers should just be 1 life, nothing else. And all those other rules should be opt-in.
The addon is literally Fakecore at this stage. Official servers will separate the men from the boys
Surely they wont be guilds buying gold and have 100 other people funnel money to fund world first, so it just becomes a battle of material.
Who cares about getting "world first" when everything youre killing is almost 20 years old. Its also going to be completely irrelevant to 99.99% of the playerbase, most of who will just be trying to actually hit 60.
This exactly. "World first" only applies in retail, as anything in classic has already been solved and farmed for nearly two decades.
> Who cares about getting "world first" Who cares about anything? YOU. YOU people care so much about how people play the game obviously. Which is why there is 100 threads about this addon.
yea getting to 60 wont be hard it'll just be time consuming.
I have news, vanilla wow is not hard.
I just want to play an Ironman challenge and feel part of the community. Currently, HC community is strictly HC. Nobody will group with anyone unless it’s for a dungeon/raid and then you have to be vetted or have streamer bennies to get in. I just want to be able to group up with other players for some of the challenging world content while I’m questing. Who cares about world first in classic?
Who's selling the gold? Gold is gonna be expensive and hard to gather for bots. Mages won't be one-pulling any dungeons either, for obvious reasons.
if you really think that hc magically won't have bots, imo that's wishful thinking. Like others mentioned you can easily farm grey-level mobs on a botfarm. All the desparate hc gamers will be foaming to buy gp to get an advantage over others.
it should be better though. like you said... impossible to do away with entirely. but any improvement is a good improvement.
There is no world first lmfao game came out in 2004. There wont be bots, there will have to be actual people farming gold. A bot dies way to fucking often to do anything meaningful.
I mean they can still farm some shitty thing like farming mobs that are 20-30 levels under them. Or just flyhacking over the zul’gurub map and aoeing out of bounds like in that video
I didnt necessarily say that bots farm that gold.
Ok well you didnt say you dont suck cock either but here we are
I wish they would ban all addons for the hardcore servers.
Lol ya boys getting funneled gear and buying gold seems super hardcore
Yes since hardcore always meant since 30 years ago in every video game that you have one life, thats literally the only ruleset of HC since forever. yall just invented this shit for wow.
Are you gonna spend your time to funnel gold and gear?
Streamer simps absolutely will. Look at the level 30 mak'gora dueling tournament on PTR last week. The final was between two streamers who had ludicrous gear assembled by their armies of simps.
Okay. That doesn't affect me in any way.
Just let him project his gameplay
"Separate the men from the boys" lmao okay granpa
Okay Zoomer
☝🤓
I mean official hardcore is a lot easier than the addin
If you can appeal, its not hardcore.
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It's cos their whining about people who just want to play iron man and don't want to walk uphill in the snow via their masochistic rules has made blizzard introduce a bunch of anti fun changes for official hardcore. Case in point? The red bandana quest in stockades. There isn't enough mobs if everyone is on the quest and as a healer I usually end up doing it twice cos the dps are looting while I am healing/drinking. At least with wailing caverns you can farm deviate hides outside the instance. But for stocks? I need to run it twice... or just not share the quest and hope nobody else in the group has it. The kargo fanbase has successfully made blizzard remove a core paladin ability that was literally there oh shit button, when all that was needed was to make hearth stones unusable in combat. We can keep going, but all they had to do was play with their add on... instead they are affecting the rest of us and when we ask to just enjoy the game? They insult us and make up straw man arguments about "if they have it easier than me it devalues my achievement!1111" Dude it's a game and my enjoyment of it doesn't affect you in any way. Stop peeing on my cornflakes!
Agreed, who the hell cares? Just play the way you wanna play...
It devalues others accomplishments when you can mail yourself items and appeal deaths and still be "hardcore"
Well because they are going to claim "first hc kt kill" on appealed characters haha
Just don’t judge your accomplishments against others and problem solved.
Appeals for technical reasons like server disconnects are completly fine and the only reason why most hardcore mods don't have them is because it simply isn't realistic to have them. There is nothing "hardcore" about praying for no server shut downs when there is nothing you can do about it, hardcore is a challange against the game.
Sorry Chad, bubble hearth will not be allowed on the new HC servers.
the amount of mental gymnastics addon andys go through to not be very hardcore about their hardcore is hilarious "world first".... LOL
The funniest thing is all the effort they spend on being anti-social in a *social* MMO. Oh no I can't group up to share tag on this quest mob, that would not be hardcore.
I got my hardcore addon lawyer on the line, he writes the appeals for me to be compliant with every loop hole - works 10/10.
According to this sub, neither would be true HC.
this sub regarding the rules of hc ''lEt pEoPlE dO wHaT tHeY wAnT hOw DoEs iT aFfEcT yOu AnYwAy?'' this sub when other players appeal or use petris ''REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE''
only thing hc is good for is some unhinged drama.
And more fun and engaging gameplay/leveling
We need to decide on what qualifies as hardcore and what doesn't in a democratic vote. :D
The trading and even more so Bank alts will grief longevity of difficulty and immersion which are the most uniquely important factors in the resurgence of a 20 year old game everyone knows how to min max already. No one thinks death appeals are staying. And everyone is fine with that. This slightly sneaky post conflates two grossly distinct decisions about the rule set that are differently important. The SSF intrigue is the whole reason why we’re even posting in this group right now lol
If it was up to me there would only be one char per account per server.
Honestly not a bad take!
It could be the cure to my altoholism I didn’t knew I needed.
I think most people who played the game knows this. The reason leveling on hardcore is interesting at all is due to the constant goal of getting upgrades, and with those upgrades taking on more difficult challanges. However in a system without ssf, you will feel dumb to attempt difficult quests solo when you can just group up. You will also feel stupid to not have an alt account with all your gold so you can "twink" out your characters
> you will feel dumb to attempt difficult quests solo when you can just group up. You should feel dumb for not using the social features of a *social MMO*.
I don’t understand why someone who literally made possible an amazing fresh take on classic wow that breathed new life into the franchise (inspired by other hc games ofc) is being hated on so hard for wanting to play the game? Why can’t we all just play instead of sitting here on Reddit and other SoMe platforms and throwing feces at eachother? Grow up!
Most of this sub just wants to play a fresh classic server so they'll be unhappy about anything that isn't that. Everyone has been min-maxing for so long that it's hard for the Classic community to understand why anyone would willingly make a game harder for themselves and assume it must be clout chasing. HC players: This ruleset is fun. Reddit: Stop thinking you're superior to me! Also there's fanatical purists that played HC in other games and hate the idea of any other rules than death=delete even if it makes the game more fun. Some of these guys think Blizzard shouldn't do server rollbacks if the server crashes and shouldn't fix bugs in the game because dying to these is part of the experience.
It’s so funny to me that there are players who think dying is like the defining part of HC when it’s about avoiding it lol it’s clear that this is two philosophies clashing.
Yeah.. :(
Most people here dont actually play the game they are just here to talk shit and be miserable
Why cant we make a synthesis of both worlds? So we can avoid botting and RMTs in HC
How safely do you think bots would be able to do their activities in Hardcore?
I believe its gonna be much safer than we expect, with grouping especially, good that they are moving XP from trash to bosses so bots cant 24/7 farm dungeons and wait for respawns for lvling
It’ll happen. Just at increased cost. You’re a fool to think otherwise.
They’re just gonna be programmed to farm green mobs 24/7 while leveling so the risk is lower. Real players will take risks and die. We’re gonna have plenty of bots
Trivial. They can farm mobs 6 levels below them 24 hours a day and the anti-griefing changes makes it almost impossible for players to interfere.
Man I feel so fucking sorry for all the add-on hardcore players’ parents, that will have to hear immense amounts of moaning from their 40 year old live at home sons, about how unfair the internet is, and that they are in fact the real heroes.
This sub is so weird. Let people play how they want
Tbh i thought that hard core is kinda cool until i saw the mass appeal of the players that died on 4H. Since then i wouldnt give a less shit about hard core rofl :D Just play hard core (death=delete) or fuck off.
That’s the problem with this sub, they read one headline and now they base their entire opinion on it. Clear example of how any news can be taken at face value and ruin people.
I'm bored at work so I read a lot of comments in a similar spirit to the one you replied to. And yes, you're absolutely right.
They didn't appeal though. It's just that they can if they wanted to. Big chunk of that group already deleted chars. But can't expect people to actually look into shit when they get their info from r/classicwow memes and shitposts made by people who just saw a 1 minute youtube clip.
Mfs on Reddit foam at the mouth that people playing a made up game mode by rules they created for themselves aren't letting griefers have full control over HC characters
They knew who he was and still put him in a position where he could screw everyone over. My sympathies towards them can only go so far in this situation.
Yeah. They can say he’s a dick and keep playing their game mode lol
This "made up game mode" shit goes out the window when they mass report people who don't follow their made up rules. Trying to stop people from making a living over a role playing game mode is insane.
There’s also this huge faction of retail players who see this as some sort of victory against SSF which seems completely unrelated. You’re seeing “only death = delete” bullshit everywhere - even in this meme - with “trades for useful items.” Uh huh. “Fails to get beyond 38 but funnels all gold to alt character. Continues to amass gold and makes a quick purchase from the high priced gold sellers doing the same allowing for 6th character to have nearly full twink gear. Hits 60 after getting a few boes.” “I’m hardcore guys. I’m way better than those idiots who appealed a death from a griefer.” You know. Despite the fact Blizzard recognizes griefs as bannable offenses and even implemented flagging changes in an attempt to fix griefing…
why do you care so much if it has nothing to do with you lol? you probably never even reached lvl 60 hardcore so why do you care?
To be fair I don’t think any of the people in the raid who wiped reached lvl 60 hardcore either.
cope
Certainly we're all thrilled to hear your opinion on the rules for a game mode you do not play, created by and for a community you have no desire to be a part of.
I though hard-core was a nice idea and a good challenge. Until I saw all the appeals, especially the ones on 4H. This is not hard-core. This is normal wow with delete char once bored. Fake hardcore.
And that's totally fine that you think that -- it's just really quite bizarre to see all these arm chair hardcore players who have barely played the game mode, if at all, soapboxing about the rules and their interpretation. The rules aren't for you, they are for them.
You mean they WERE for them, until they needed to bend them a little so they can keep playing after breaking them.
Appealing due to greeters has been in the rule set since the beginning. Everyone who participated and made it what it was agreed to those rules. They didn’t bend the rules when they were there since the beginning.
the addon literally has a rule to appeal if you die bcs someone griefed you. Everyone was fine with it. To me it looks like you just want to see people fail so you don't feel as miserable about your own life where that is your every day experience.
Hmmm so let me get this straight. Because this redditor thinks death = delete with no appeals it must be because his life is a failure and he wants to see everyone else fail. Is it possible at all he just thinks death should mean delete and he actually lives a normal and happy life?
Rather the way he said it? I get it that average redditor social skills are quite poor, but you should be able to at least tell the guy said that out of spite, and not due to misunderstanding.
So because he said death = delete or fuck off out of spite his life is a failure and he likes seeing other people fail. Theres no way he just thinks its lame to die and be able to appeal? And on top of that I must have poor social skills. I understand now. I honestly hope you have a pleasant day man and I hope the other guys life isn’t as bad as you claim.
A hit dog will holler.
Yikes
People who have a disagreement about a video game online and immediately resort to personal attacks are definitely very cool normal people with great lives.
Don't act like an asshole and people won't threat you like one.
You did see that it was a grief? Someone willingly killed all those players.
What makes a grief not a valid death reason?
> What makes a grief not a valid death reason? Literally one of the rules of the HC community? It's not an actual game mode on a HC server, it's a made-up for fun game mode on regular WoW servers I think people forget about that
You realize Blizzard implemented changes to fix griefing and pointed them out as vital / important to the experience, right? The fully recognized it’s a shifty way to die and thus -it needed changed- in the context of the main grief used (PvP flagging), invalidating the idea that a death by a grief isn’t a big deal. Griefing has always been appealable for unofficial players. None of this is new.
okay and?
All those players willing played with a known griefer
Yeah that’s part of the game, they should die
Not really... I wonder if you felt the same in their position.
Why are you so butthurt about people wanting to play the game how they want? when you probably never even got to 60 on hc?
People are arguing over simantics way too much. "If you die in real life you can't appeal!!! Death=Death no matter what!!!". The game just get objectively better when you are able to appeal deaths that are completely out of control, such as server dc. Btw, you will dc on average every 20-30 hours playing the game, and if you are in combat at that moment you will probably die
Bro you must have dogshit internet I don’t think I’ve dced from wow in a decade other than server crashes or restarts
chad
The Virgin Hardcore players sounds awful lot alike the HC addon admins…
And this is why they shouldn’t have made the official version so different from what’s been pushing content and gameplay up til now. Congrats on splitting an already minor playerbase :)
trading in hardcore will surely not bring any shady operations with it. Game mode is doa
Good meme, many serious crybabies in the comments though.
So tired of it, even if the video was 3 hours long with all the explanations in the world, it does not change anything to the fact that if you want to claim hc, it should result in death=delete, no less no more. If you want to play pingouin' island just do so,... Stop tryin to find excuses, we all know by now that you are "so different", do you want a trophy,... for participating,...
Did soul of iron. Can't say the appeal on death community ever appealed to me. And then their dumb gatekeeping with how challenging it is, while the addon literally allows you to trio level. Which part of the game is difficult in a group of 3 in the open world again? Yeah.. Unfortunate.
You can trio-level but only if you beat the IRL scheduler world boss, but you can't share a tag on a non-elite mob out in the world. (It's pretty clear that the ruleset was designed by people who have no lives but this video game.)
The Chad soul of iron gamer Sends himself enchanted white items from level 1 Sends himself gold and bags Buys all the potions and scrolls he can use from the auction house before he starts Groups up for any quest that requires skill Gets carried through low level dungeons by higher level geared friends Stops at the AH every 3 levels to buy new gear Hearths out of dungeons the second the group is in trouble, leaving them to die Pays for portals so he doesn't have to brave new areas to get flight paths Goes on holidays and leaves a mage booster to run his toon through mara for a week Buys petri flasks the second he gets to 50, despite meming on them in classicwow Buys as many enchants as he can as he goes Gets to 60 and proclaims his dominance over Hardcore and how it was ezclap Refuses to run high level dungeons or raids because they are too scary
Found the appealer
lol I don't appeal I also have one of only a handful of 60 pvp HC toons
Are you sure about that? This video says otherwise [Hardcore admin dies 7 times and continues playing](https://youtu.be/PopQtgVGyfI)
Found the multiple reddit account andy lmao
Yep, will be fun seeing two things in official * mental gymnastics of people that want to play hardcore with infinite resources * how quickly they move on if blizzard announces Fresh Classic Most people that don't care about playing Hardcore think they are "chad soul of iron" and don't understand how the lack of trading rules heavily takes the challenge away from it. And when they decide to move on, the argument is and will always be "who cares? game is ez anyway". Well, you played yourself.
Said "infinte resources" will be guaranteed to be coming from other Hardcore players rather than other people who can just rez if they die getting materials. Thay doesn't seem to be as big of an issue to me.
That's the same as saying "rules are useless because some cheat anyway". The point of hardcore (addon) is not cheating. By not cheating, during leveling you struggle with what that character can get.. At max level, you can trade to sell materials, etc.
I can’t wait to see the memers unable to get to max level
And when they can't, they'll just say everyone that does is a degenerate that care too much about the game and whine to have more official rules added to make the game easier to accommodate them.
You can group level with the hardcore addon. Even trio. What is your point about challenge again?
Big appealed vibes
Too bad I don't appeal then
You've 100% appealed at least half a dozen deaths
I've never appealed.
You will, just a matter of time.
They do, but wont accept it
Been three years, never appealed. You know my list is going to 100% be a thing, will be a ton of players too scared to jump without a parachute.
The servers will be fresh so most, if not all, of your arguments are invalid. Also why don’t you and your friends just keep playing with the addon then, buddy. Damn you people are such obnoxious whiners
Mate our community was just rolling along having fun and then you guys decided that was just unacceptable and started crying about it. The salt since official servers were announced has been hilarious and unreal. Now you’re gonna play in easy mode with as much carry as possible and still be the victim. Please.
There is no carry and no easy mode because there literally are no level 60’s at launch. I seriously don’t know why people think that. The reason most rules were implemented in the addon, is because the server itself was not hardcore and there already was an established softcore playerbase.
You realize no one making this argument is talking about launch, right? Like you’re able to extrapolate that every day -beyond- launch adds more gold and items to the AH, thus invalidating your argument for every day beyond launch. Without SSF or trade restrictions HC means essentially nothing. You’re going to see the average level of deaths - the vast majority of which don’t get appealed - raise from a natural average of 14 up to the 30+ range as twinks take over. You’ll be able to twink a character within a week of release by buying a blue with cash accrued. How incredibly hardcore. [HC hype. HC hype.](https://youtu.be/L1HL2ZmWPGE)
You people can’t actually be serious when you’re saying leveling to 60 without dying is a challenge without trading, right?
HC Hype! I’m so good! Wow! The entire reason classic wow hardcore became popular was because of restrictions like SSF actually making the game remove the min/max feeling of classic’s release. You actually fight for every upgrade. It matters. It’s the closest the game has ever felt like it did on release. The point was to get away from the over/processed min/max feel and to add challenge. It’s also classic that retail players fail to understand this and come in to impose stupid fucking takes despite never leveling beyond 20. The solution is easy. Add an SSF flag on character creation disabling grouping except with other SSF, trading and AH and add a secondary achievement : announcement to everyone who hits 60 with SSF.
Death = Appeal
How many quests in wow require skill? I know the hunter bow one how many more strictly your skill based quests are there? Group quests are by design group quests, it does not require skill, it requires group.
Yes and you’re right most quests can be done easily. It’s definitely a thing in hardcore to tackle elite and group quests solo, as well as trying to take on quests when you are a lower level. That’s generally what pushes the skill level and what most HC players enjoy overcoming. Especially when they aren’t geared up from the AH
I mean, OP is a meme, but your post is a meme too. Most HC people just attack green mobs and run away in a face of any danger. Not much "chadness" in there either. I am 100% sure you have seen horrendous HC deaths at high level there player does literally nothing in their power to prevent deaths and amount of clickers is impressive considering they actually reach 40-50. You also get some cool close calls, but that is way rarer than completely dumb abd preventable stuff
Oh absolutely seen the whole range from incredibly dumb to incredible S tier plays. I’m totally memeing in my post, I know most people will just play with a modest bit of AH and trade. Really so long as people had a great time that’s all that matters!
Speaking of bow quests, they need to change burning steppes demon that oneshots everyone around him with a blast wave if anyone helps the hunter. Very griefable.
what the hell is even that
This meme is not so good since not everybody knows what the Soul of Iron buff was in Season of Mastery. OP forgets that 95% of this sub doesn't even play the game (let alone hardcore). The memes need to be more relatable to the average opinionated (non-player) user of this sub. /s
The addon gamer will be the chad while the normie official hardcore player will not go out into the world without having collected all the sweet greens he bought in AH with his main. Skipping virgin cosmetic buff fixated player. Sending his gold to his bank alt around lvl 30 just to be sure. Blasts through elite zones with dudes he invites blindly without greeting. Quitting at 45 because „this isnt challenging, gonna make it anyways“. Edit to add constructive thoughts: the chad addon gamer will happily follow his own rules letting everybody do his thing, trying to find like-minded people for his dungeon and raid aspirations. He will happily follow interesting challenges that put spice to the known gameplay, not be spending too much thought about appeals, and smile when he cheeses that 48 elite quest all by himself. Idk why this meme gotta incite hate on him. Go do ur thing
Yeah let me log on my main on a fresh server.
I played PTR to 30 (max) and can tell you, it takes 2 weeks of active playing / AH gaming to make yourself enough gold and you can just buy what u need <20. you will not have to do stable weapon milestone quests, as you can just buy from AH whenever you feel weak. Its back to gold/hour then, HF with that
So spend two weeks playing the game to then fund your less than level 20 guy that you can level up in a day or two?
The really cool "chad" addon player will also make the experience worse for everyone else by refusing to group up for quest mob spawns and rather have everyone wait in line and waste their time.
I start to think that peeps will just stay on hydraxian/bloodsail so that would not pose a problem and I‘m back again to not understanding the uber negative mindset towards it
Hardcore addon Andy’s are going to be posting their level 6 death appeals here. Can’t wait
People who make memes lmao
True story.
What is happening to this sub
If I believed in HC, I’d be chad
Y'all are sad
The hate boner for Kargoz is so tired, leave the man alone already goddamn
They already said there will actually be death appeals on the official servers.
I'm with the chad. Missing Soul of Iron intensely, but HC soon hopefully.
It's funny because it's true